The only proof of hallucinations is the personal experience of a few people.


The only proof of prophecy/vision is the personal experience of a few people.


Yet you accept hallucinations, but not PROPHECY/VISION. Are you guys okay?

That mentally ill (psychosis) man you see on the street of Lagos telling you he's in Sokoto actually saw himself in Sokoto. That mentally ill woman who gives people Baba Ijebu numbers, football scores, etc, actually SAW something others could not see, yet you believe her, but you feel prophecy are mere mathematical permutations.

If people could hear strange voices, see angels in the street of Lagos and science calls it hallucinations, why can't the dum.best of all atheists believe that REAL angels could be real after all?

The more I try to understand these people, the more it sounds f00lish to make further attempts to understand them. "These people" as in Atheists.


I'm really not interested in the comments, I'm well convinced that a large proportion of Nigerian Nairaland atheists are confused wannabes. I never knew atheists believe in Church weddings, and marriage between a man and a woman until I stumbled on Nairaland, so the opinion of these categories of wannabes is pointless, and thus, not anticipated.

Peace.

you should have asked Seun to remove the comment option if you don't want comments.

unfortunately you can't, so I have to comment.

my brother, I may not be an atheist but I think you need to understand something.
the very day you realize that every human has rights to practise different believes from the ones you believe, the world will start being smoother for you.

from your vulgar words I can see you're not even a good Christian. but let me tell, any believes/religions that don't compel you to leave your own and follow them is a good believe/religion.

I'm sure no atheist has never knocked on your door for preachings. it's you who drags words from their mouth And later call them names.

live and let others live. that's the beauty of the world.
leave judgements and condemnation for God(s)

obisage:
you should have asked Seun to remove the comment option if you don't want comments.

unfortunately you can't, so I have to comment.

my brother, I may not be an atheist but I think you need to understand something.
the very day you realize that every human has rights to practise different believes from the ones you believe, the world will start being smoother for you.

from your vulgar words I can see you're not even a good Christian. but let me tell, any believes/religions that don't compel you to leave your own and follow them is a good believe/religion.

I'm sure no atheist has never knocked on your door for preachings. it's you who drags words from their mouth And later call them names.

live and let others live. that's the beauty of the world.
leave judgements and condemnation for God(s)

Any believe that don't compel you to leave your own and follow them is a good religion?? Really?? So what do atheists do daily on a Christian section? Let me guess, they eat jollof rice with Prophet T.B Joshua.


How does my words and language translate to bad Christianity? Would you say Jesus/God is a bad Christian for condemning sinners to hell?


I know your type sha... but I won't say more. I wont leave condemnation for God, it is criminal to know the truth, and allow others perish in their ignorance. That's the tenet of Christianity.. Sorry but I don't do the bread, butter and sin in grace Christianity. Condemn me when I do wrong and get ready for my condemnation when you err... do these in words/teachings and preachings, and leave the arms to the armed ediots up north.

my brother you'll make a good Christian Terrorist!
you are radical for Jesus hehehehe.

Would you say Jesus/God is a bad Christian
for condemning sinners to hell?

even though hell is invention of bad hearted follows like you. but if by chance hell do exist. then that God that created it is the most wickedest of Gods!

Atheists come to Christian section, it's possible.
but has anyone of them ever stopped you on the road to preach Atheism to you? do they point horn speakers to your windows early in the morning like bad Belle Christians like you do?

An atheist don't argue brotherly, they only defend what they believe..

obisage:
my brother you'll make a good Christian Terrorist!
you are radical for Jesus hehehehe.

Would you say Jesus/God is a bad Christian
for condemning sinners to hell?

even though hell is invention of bad hearted follows like you. but if by chance hell do exist. then that God that created it is the most wickedest of Gods!

Atheists come to Christian section, it's possible.
but has anyone of them ever stopped you on the road to preach Atheism to you? do they point horn speakers to your windows early in the morning like bad Belle Christians like you do?

An atheist don't argue brotherly, they only defend what they believe..

They cannot point horn speakers because they have nothing to preach about.

Can we not derail the thread please?

I will attack every attempt from you to avoid the very essence of this thread.

Acidosis:


They cannot point horn speakers because they have nothing to preach about.

Can we not derail the thread please?

I will attack every attempt from you to avoid the very essence of this thread.

please don't attack me, teach me, every atheist is a good reader and a good learner ( I'm not an Atheist, I'm only a moralist who believes in the right of other people)

in other not to deviate from the essence of the thread,
believe me brotherly, If I write as many paragraphs as you've written just to criticize Atheism on Christianity, you will start to doubt your believe on Gods infinite mercy and even his existence.

but I won't. whatever gives you joy and satisfaction, practice it as long as you don't harm others with it.

You can actually prove and show a subject is hallucinating using functional mris and PET imaging. During auditory hallucinations there is increased activity in the auditory cortex without actual external auditory stimulus. During visual hallucinations you can also see increased activity in areas of the brain including the basal ganglia and the primary visual cortex.

LightandDarkness:
You can actually prove and show a subject is hallucinating using functional mris and PET imaging. During auditory hallucinations there is increased activity in the auditory cortex without actual external auditory stimulus. During visual hallucinations you can also see increased activity in areas of the brain including the basal ganglia and the primary visual cortex.

Precisely what I was gonna say.

Scientific evidence for hallucinations.

Not so for visions/prophecies...

HyDef:


Precisely what I was gonna say.

Scientific evidence for hallucinations.

Not so for visions/prophecies...

cant visions be most likely hallucinations in the case of a sincere claimant ?

prophecies ?? well i dont take such vague guess work serious

Acidosis:
The only proof of hallucinations is the personal experience of a few people.
The only proof of prophecy/vision is the personal experience of a few people.
Yet you accept hallucinations, but not PROPHECY/VISION. Are you guys okay?

We believe in visions, but we have no reason to believe that they will come to pass. Visions are hallucinations. They are not real.

That mentally ill (psychosis) man you see on the street of Lagos telling you he's in Sokoto actually saw himself in Sokoto. That mentally ill woman who gives people Baba Ijebu numbers, football scores, etc, actually SAW something others could not see, yet you believe her, but you feel prophecy are mere mathematical permutations.

There are honest prophets and dishonest prophets. A honest prophet has a dream or a hallucination and thinks it will come to pass. We accept the honest prophet's experience but we see no reason to believe that what he saw will come to pass. Dishonest prophets have other tactics.

If people could hear strange voices, see angels in the street of Lagos and science calls it hallucinations, why can't the dumbest of all atheists believe that REAL angels could be real after all?

This is highly illogical, sir. We believe that people can hear strange voices and see 'angels', but we know that those experiences are not real.

johnydon22:
cant visions be most likely hallucinations in the case of a sincere claimant ?

prophecies ?? well i dont take such vague guess work serious

Definitely. I think that's most likely what they are, as long as the individual is being sincere, as you said.

"If people can hear strange voices, see angels in the streets of Lagos, and science calls it hallucinations, why can't the dumbest of all atheists believe that real angels are real afterall".....................................This is where you shot yourself in the foot!!!

Are hallucinations "real"? If I see a purple elephant with cockroach wings, does that mean that the purple elephant is real?!!! Do you believe that flying elephants exist?!!!

If the fictional purple elephant can never be real......................then your even more fictional angels can never be real!!!

LightandDarkness:
You can actually prove and show a subject is hallucinating using functional mris and PET imaging. During auditory hallucinations there is increased activity in the auditory cortex without actual external auditory stimulus. During visual hallucinations you can also see increased activity in areas of the brain including the basal ganglia and the primary visual cortex.

Are activities and signals angels and voices? Would such activities tell whether the sound I heard its an animal or human sounds?

There is no ACTUAL/REAL evidence except from the experiences of the few. Please do not confuse some folks here. They might mistake ECG (Graphs) for walking angels.
I spent 2 years studying physiology so I understand how these things work. Besides, I know what a psychiatry/human behavioural sci ward looks like. Consultants, Psychiatrists, etc. rely vastly on what their patients tell them. They hardly conduct any of those tests you put up there.


Certain scientific activities also occur when people speak in tongues, sing spiritual songs, etc. Atheists mock these people because they don't understand, not because scientists have not found similar activities in the basal or primary ganglia.

You don't get to see these cases in the hospital because those who speak in tongues are mentally okay.

Same can be said about dreams. There are evidences (scientific) to show that activities occur in the brain. So why would anyone doubt visions and prophecies?

HyDef:


Precisely what I was gonna say.

Scientific evidence for hallucinations.

Not so for visions/prophecies...

No scientific evidences for dreams, visions?


Mind you, those evidences are not real. They are mere vague auditory signals.

Only the man hallucinating knows the exact image he saw, others are only studying the activities. I could see a fish and tell you, its an Angel, you can't see angel or fish on ECG.

Niflheim:
"If people can hear strange voices, see angels in the streets of Lagos, and science calls it hallucinations, why can't the dumbest of all atheists believe that real angels are real afterall".....................................This is where you shot yourself in the foot!!!

Are hallucinations "real"? If I see a purple elephant with cockroach wings, does that mean that the purple elephant is real?!!! Do you believe that flying elephants exist?!!!

If the fictional purple elephant can never be real......................then your even more fictional angels can never be real!!!

If you see a purple elephant with wings? that shows elephants are real.

Majority of patients who found themselves hallucinating will always tell you they see angels. It is not so common to see those abstract images you conjure in the name of hallucination.

I don't understand what you're even saying. So you know how often atheists stalk and abuse chriatians on Nairaland here. Even when a nonreligious issue is raised they still find a way to drag Christianity into it and taunting and demeaning Christianity.
So what is the difference with doing that on the road and online?

Let me ask you, is atheism a religion? Why do atheists come to the religious section to insult religious people when atheism is not a religion?

obisage:
my brother you'll make a good Christian Terrorist!
you are radical for Jesus hehehehe.

Would you say Jesus/God is a bad Christian
for condemning sinners to hell?

even though hell is invention of bad hearted follows like you. but if by chance hell do exist. then that God that created it is the most wickedest of Gods!

Atheists come to Christian section, it's possible.
but has anyone of them ever stopped you on the road to preach Atheism to you? do they point horn speakers to your windows early in the morning like bad Belle Christians like you do?

An atheist don't argue brotherly, they only defend what they believe..

In other news those images/voices seen or heard during audio/visual hallucinations are not real?? Lol

Do you sir, also know that science has also proven that those images you see during hallucinations and nightmares are real due to them being stored in a certain part of the brain associated with real events that actually occurred? As opposed to them being stored in the part of the brain associated with creative vain imaginations of things yet to occur?

Why is this so?

LightandDarkness:
You can actually prove and show a subject is hallucinating using functional mris and PET imaging. During auditory hallucinations there is increased activity in the auditory cortex without actual external auditory stimulus. During visual hallucinations you can also see increased activity in areas of the brain including the basal ganglia and the primary visual cortex.

Omudia11:
In other news those images/voices seen or heard during audio/visual hallucinations are not real?? Lol

Do you sir, also know that science has also proven that those images you see during hallucinations and nightmares are real due to them being stored in a certain part of the brain associated with real events that actually occurred? As opposed to them being stored in the part of the brain associated with creative vain imaginations of things yet to occur?

Why is this so?

Do not be deceived... Those images and sounds only come in the form of graphs. They don't see angels, walking elephants in the Laboratory.

Besides, the best psychiatry hospitals in Nigeria or anywhere else rely majorly on patient information.

With a Stethoscope, a Doctor can hear your heart beat. No Doctor can hear those sounds hallucinating patients hear.

I just gave you fact which scientists have proven and you're disputing based on your feelings and emotions. Mention me when you can disprove those scientists. If you want the link, I can provide.

Acidosis:



Do not be deceived... Those images and sounds only come in the form of graphs. They don't see angels, walking elephants in the Laboratory.

Besides, the best psychiatry hospitals in Nigeria or anywhere else rely majorly on patient information.

With a Stethoscope, a Doctor can hear your heart beat. No Doctor can hear those sounds hallucinating patients hear.

Acidosis:


No scientific evidences for dreams, visions?


Mind you, those evidences are not real. They are mere vague auditory signals.

Only the man hallucinating knows the exact image he saw, others are only studying the activities. I could see a fish and tell you, its an Angel, you can't see angel or fish on ECG.

I never mentioned dreams. Don't say I said what I didn't. There's more than enough scientific evidence for dreams.

Yes, you're right. And I'm assuming you meant EEG, but that's beside the point. This angel the person saw, if truly they saw something, what stops it from being as real as a fish in space? I mean, someone says Jesus spoke to him, how do we know that this fellow isn't simply hallucinating his savior?

And as well, I'm not sure if you know that the content of hallucinations is partly determined by culture and education. A typical Nigerian won't hallucinate and see the CIA or Aliens. That's for the Americans. A Nigerian will probably see what, Jesus? Angels? Satan? Witches? Wizards? Anything of that sort. Especially when you decide to pair it with persecutory delusions. This is why someone saying they saw an angel is as believable as someone who said they saw a pig that could fly. :p

And what the heck does it mean when you say the evidence isn't real? Are you trying to say it's all false or what?

Acidosis:


Any believe that don't compel you to leave your own and follow them is a good religion?? Really?? So what do atheists do daily on a Christian section? Let me guess, they eat jollof rice with Prophet T.B Joshua.

This is not a Christian section. This is a Religion section. Scientologists are as welcome as Christians. :p

Omudia11:
In other news those images/voices seen or heard during audio/visual hallucinations are not real?? Lol

Do you sir, also know that science has also proven that those images you see during hallucinations and nightmares are real due to them being stored in a certain part of the brain associated with real events that actually occurred? As opposed to them being stored in the part of the brain associated with creative vain imaginations of things yet to occur?

Why is this so?

If it's a hallucination how is it real?. Also a nightmare is not a hallucination but both are creations of the brain.

Acidosis:


Are activities and signals angels and voices? Would such activities tell whether the sound I heard its an animal or human sounds?

There is no ACTUAL/REAL evidence except from the experiences of the few. Please do not confuse some folks here. They might mistake ECG (Graphs) for walking angels.
I spent 2 years studying physiology so I understand how these things work. Besides, I know what a psychiatry/human behavioural sci ward looks like. Consultants, Psychiatrists, etc. rely vastly on what their patients tell them. They hardly conduct any of those tests you put up there.


Certain scientific activities also occur when people speak in tongues, sing spiritual songs, etc. Atheists mock these people because they don't understand, not because scientists have not found similar activities in the basal or primary ganglia.

You don't get to see these cases in the hospital because those who speak in tongues are mentally okay.

Same can be said about dreams. There are evidences (scientific) to show that activities occur in the brain. So why would anyone doubt visions and prophecies?

I'm not talking about ecgs here. You asked how you can prove a subject us hallucinating and that's how, if you're in nigeria then the absence of mris as a diagnostic tool isn't surprising.

"You don't get to see these cases in the hospital because those who speak in tongues are mentally okay." Matter of context honestly.

Okay so how can you prove visions aren't hallucinations?

I just gave you facts. Stop positing things based on your feelings. According to science, they are very real and not creations of the brain.

LightandDarkness:


If it's a hallucination how is it real?. Also a nightmare is not a hallucination but both are creations of the brain.

Omudia11:
I just gave you facts. Stop positing things based on your feelings. According to science, they are very real and not creations of the brain.

I'm not posting anything based on feelings. Events in nightmares aren't actually happening in the real world are they? They're products of the subconscious and hence the brain, even if they're based on actual experiences, the nightmare itself is still created by the brain. http://neuro.hms.harvard.edu/harvard-mahoney-neuroscience-institute/brain-newsletter/and-brain-series/nightmares-and-brain

Do people intentionally pretend to be daft? Hallucinations are a proven fact! Prophecies on the other hand are lies, just like TB Joshua prophesied he saw a female as American president!

How educated are the so called " Athiests" ? We havd billions of parallel universes where everything is possible. Anyone who says certain stuff don't exist need to tell us how many percentage of their brain capacity they use first. Then they can tell us how they got to know that there is no possible way hullication can't exist.

ifenes:
How educated are the so called " Athiests" ? We havd billions of parallel universes where everything is possible. Anyone who says certain stuff don't exist need to tell us how many percentage of their brain capacity they use first. Then they can tell us how they got to know that there is no possible way hullication can't exist.

Lol.. who said hallucinations don't exist?

Wrong. Again you're talking based on your feelings. The brain doesn't create nothing.

LightandDarkness:

I'm not posting anything based on feelings. Events in nightmares aren't actually happening in the real world are they? They're products of the subconscious and hence the brain, even if they're based on actual experiences, the nightmare itself is still created by the brain. http://neuro.hms.harvard.edu/harvard-mahoney-neuroscience-institute/brain-newsletter/and-brain-series/nightmares-and-brain

benzics:

Lol.. who said hallucinations don't exist?

I didn't mention names

Omudia11:
Wrong. Again you're talking based on your feelings. The brain doesn't create nothing.

"In other news those images/voices seen or heard during audio/visual hallucinations are not real?? Lol

Do you sir, also know that science has also proven that those images you see during hallucinations and nightmares are real due to them being stored in a certain part of the brain associated with real events that actually occurred? As opposed to them being stored in the part of the brain associated with creative vain imaginations of things yet to occur?"

this has nothing to do with feelings. I posted an article explaining how nightmares occur. Regardless on if they're based on actual memories or experiences a nightmare or a dream is not happening in real time (if you were attacked by a bull last year and you dreamt you were being attacked by a bull this year, does this mean at that moment you are being attacked by a bull?).obviously this dream would be your brain taking this memory and replaying it while you sleep. But then not every dream is like this, they are also reflections of your subconscious fears. Anyway you look at it the ACTUAL DREAM you experience is created by your brain. If this is not the case you can explain how we dream and ignore the brain, good luck.

Now a dream and a hallucination are different things. Not every hallucination, visual or auditory, is based on real people or events.Even if you hear or see people you knew or figures relevant to you while hallucinating given that they're not there at the moment and no one else is experiencing the same thing how then is it real? it's only real to the person experiencing it but is then obviously a distortion of actual reality hence why we treat it. If hallucinations are created by signal disruptions in the brain what exactly causes hallucinations?

ifenes:

I didn't mention names

Because no one actually said hallucinations dont exist, at least no "so called atheist"