An2elect2:
Is his teaching rooted in the finished work of Christ? What have you learnt about your redemption under your pastor?

An2elect2:
I wont dwell on this cos i want to believe you are still a baby
Yes i know pastor kumuyi andا have listened to him when i was a deeper lifer. He hasnt changed! Still churning out lukewarm christians!
What do you know about Christ finished work? What has mr Kumuyi said about it?

An2elect2:
Is his teaching rooted in the finished work of Christ? What have you learnt about your redemption under your pastor?

An2elect2:
I wont dwell on this cos i want to believe you are still a baby
Yes i know pastor kumuyi andا have listened to him when i was a deeper lifer. He hasnt changed! Still churning out lukewarm christians!

What do you know about Christ finished work? What has mr Kumuyi said about it?

GoodMuyis:


YES to your question

Listen to the message your self and tell us what you heard, Here is the sermon page download anyone you like and listen. His favourite Bible passage is Hebrew 12:14

BIBLICAL DOCTRINE BEING THOUGHT
https://dclm.org/about/what-we-believe/

SERMON PAGE FOR LEADERS
https://dclm.org/sermons/leaders-meetings/2016-leaders-meeting/

Goodmuyis let me ask you the question again And please sincerely answer this...

What do you understand by the finished work of Christ?

Is your relationship with God tied to mr kumuyi? If no, answer my question above

I'll check them out once you answer my question

Sinkills:
Yes, it is. I and tens of millions of other Christian faithfuls have learnt so much about our redemption in Christ from him and his lieutenants - there is no time to enumerate them. It is like you are a 'stranger in Jerusalem' for you not to know what pastor W F Kumuyi stands for and his teachings spanning over four decades. Even his sworn enemies know.You can get copies of some of his messages especially on Redemption through Christ from Christian bookshops or the internet. God bless you sir.

An2elect2:
@bold. How can you not have time to spell out the major thing?

That is what i want to understand. How is your 'redemption' related to the finished work of Christ?

Can't you speak for yourself?

Sinkills:
Of course, my redemption from sin is as a result of the finished work if Christ on Calvary. Salvation from sin and its consequences is by grace. No one is saved by good works, piety, religious accomplishments or moral standing. I was a worker in many other churches and people saw me as a gentle and good person before I encountered the saving grace of Christ. Pastor Kumiyi has emphasised the fact that there is no redemption or salvation outside the redemptive work of God over and over again. Pick one of his messages on this or go to the internet. You will hear for yourself. 2016 December Retreat is at the corner between 23rd and 26th at Deeper Life Conference Centre, Km 42 Lagos/Ibadan Expressway and other centres in the states and regions within and outside Nigeria. You will certainly hear the message of Redemption Through the Finished Work of Christ emphasized if you attend. God bless you.

Good Good!

So you believe Christ secured your salvation on the cross and you are now one with Him. In His sufferings, death and resurrection? And you are seated with him in heavenly places?

To be clear, pls answer this. At which point in your christian life will the atonement for your sins cease?

In other words, when does the efficacy of the finished work stop? And what stops it?

An2elect2:
[i] Good Good!

So you believe Christ secured your salvation on the cross and you are now one with Him. In His sufferings, death and resurrection? And you are seated with him in heavenly places?

To be clear, pls answer this. At which point in your christian life will the atonement for your sins cease?

In other words, when does the efficacy of the finished work stop? And what stops it? [/i]My friend, there is no unconditional eternal security if that is what you are driving at. "If a man abide not in me, he is cast out as a branch......". These are the exact words of Christ our Redeemer. Once a person backslides, stops abiding in Christ and starts living in sin, the redemption ceases and such a one is liable to eternal damnation except he traces his feet back to Calvary (John 15:4-6; Ezekiel 3:20,21; Hebrews 6:4-8; 2nd Peter 2:20,21) etc. God bless you.

Sinkills:
Well, the onus is on you to mention when it was banned and when it was unbanned. What I understand is that pastor Kumuyi preaches seriously against sin and all appearances of evil. As such most of his members put away their televisions because the benefits were not as much as the negative influences. Now television and other internet facilities still have their inherent evils but the benefits are increasing by the day such as their use as media platforms by churches to reach out to multitudes. I don't know how that has changed pastor Kumuyi's stance for Christians to watch against evil influences from the mass and social media.

An2elect2:
Good Good!

So you believe Christ secured your salvation on the cross and you are now one with Him. In His sufferings, death and resurrection? And you are seated with him in heavenly places?

To be clear, pls answer this. At which point in your christian life will the atonement for your sins cease?

In other words, when does the efficacy of the finished work stop? And what stops it?

Sinkills:
The efficacy of the finished work of Christ at Calvary for our redemption which the truly redeemed believer has benefited from can only cease when he or she stops abiding in Christ, stops believing and goes back into the old life of sin. There is no unconditional eternal security according to the Holy Scriptures (Exodus 32:33; Ezekiel 3:20,21; John 15:4-6; Hebrews 6:4-8; 1st Corinthians 9:27; 10:12; 2nd Peter 2:20-22.

What exactly do you benefit from the finished work in this new covenant? that those of the old couldnt?

Did Christ die for all sins or for our past sins only?

Lets reason as people with a new mind, the mind of Christ

An2elect2:


What exactly do you benefit from the finished work in this new covenant? that those of the old couldnt?

Did Christ die for all sins or for our past sins only?

Lets reason as people with a new mind, the mind of Christ Believers in the New Covenant are in a better dispensation because ours is a better Covenant established on better promises (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 7:7; 8:6-13; 13:20; Galatians 4:24; On your second question. Christ died for our sins. When we repent and believe on Him, we are forgiven of our past sins, cleansed and saved. A saved believer has a duty by the grace of God to be careful not to go back to his/her vomit (Titus 2:11-14). THE MIND OF CHRIST it is never that we receive His grace in vain. He specifically told the people He forgave not to sin again (John 5:14; 8:11; Romans 6:1,2.). The doctrine of 'once saved, forever saved' or eternal security is neither here nor there. It doesn't make sense, is not scriptural, deceptive and certainly one of the doctrines of the devils. Thank you.

An2elect2:


What exactly do you benefit from the finished work in this new covenant? that those of the old couldnt?

Did Christ die for all sins or for our past sins only?

Lets reason as people with a new mind, the mind of Christ

CHARLOE:

How old are u?

GoodMuyis:


I will summarily answer your question with the Word GRACE: God Riches At Christ Expense. So the GRACE is like a Wealth Room that supply all that a Child of God need [Ephesians 2:8] starting From Salvation etc

If you have sat under Kumuyi [for some good time] you will know what his teachings about your question are. But I suspect your question has hidden question as well (such as those bordering Christian Moderation ) because I have never seen anyone who have school under Kumuyi asking such dummy question like this.

As regards to Change, I wont say much. But I will say its an insult to have said Kumuyi churn out lookwarm Christian. Every assembly has people who have not found the key to supernatural, they so much believed in Religion and religious activities more that knowing God Experiencially, and that is subject to two things: Our parent and Our Spiritual Environment....

==Modified==
Sorry I made some typo initially.

The case of Our Parent is what you dont have, you cant give, if an Individual was born in a Lookwarm Christian family, there is tendency such a person will took after his parent, except being influence by strong spiritual environment. Spiritual Environment matters a lot to Christian Development, a cold or lookwarm environment produced same [Matthew 7:18].

Both influences do point to one direction Environment, and every religious person is a product of his environment, but what makes a person a Polished christian is the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, who is our gateway to dynamic Christianity and fervency. But unfortunately many believers have not take much time to seek the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, yet I can still fault the Environment for that.

I Think You should be thanking God for Your Supernatural Calling, Not many has such a gracious Opportunity. Myself do thank God for what I've received without much labour, I was in a lookwarm environment but He took me up

----
Here is a Sermon if you can download
https://dclm.org/sermons/leaders-meetings/2016-leaders-meeting/indispensable-evidence-of-salvation-in-christ/

GoodMuyis:


YES to your question

Listen to the message your self and tell us what you heard, Here is the sermon page download anyone you like and listen. His favourite Bible passage is Hebrew 12:14

BIBLICAL DOCTRINE BEING THOUGHT
https://dclm.org/about/what-we-believe/

SERMON PAGE FOR LEADERS
https://dclm.org/sermons/leaders-meetings/2016-leaders-meeting/

GoodMuyis:


John1vs12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Do you even know W.F. Kumuyi, have you ever listen to him, if not why not download one of his message and listen

Sinkills:
Christ died to save us FROM our sins, not to save us IN our sins. And after we are saved by grace, we are careful not to return to our vomit by His grace.

Ok

Although aChristian can sin mistakingly or inadvertently, we do not make a practice of sinning. Those who make a practice of sinning are either not saved yet or are backslidden already. A Christian is not a sinner and a sinner is not yet a Christian. Thank you.

It is true that Christians do not make a practice of sinning or abide in sin but the question is who keeps the christian from sinning?

Christ and your carefulness? or only Christ?

As for Paul, he had to cry over his impossibility to defeat sin even after being saved. And if you think your carefulness will keep you from sinning, think again

[Paul addressed himself as unspiritual and a slave to sin. A deeper lifer would prefer he used "i was" instead of "i am"]
[b]
Romans 7:14-25

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me[color]. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.[/b]

Sinkills have you ever been brought to this point in your walk? That you despaired over yourself ! Paul said he was wretched!

Have you ever looked at yourself and said: "Sin is stronger than me. I cannot overcome it!" Inspite of how much you tried!

You confessed like Paul, you are a sinner and in you no good dwells. That all the good are in Christ who is your saviour!?

Have you ever been brought to this table? Where
you cry thus," Who will rescue me from this body of death."?

If the only table you have been brought to is to partly rely on your moral strenght and "craftly" calling it the grace of God. Then i am afraid!!!!

Sinkills. Its true that sin kills but it does not kill those in Christ
"But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness." (Rom 8:10)

Paul sinned many times but he was still alive for Righteousness sake, for Christ sake! and not his sake! Thats why i asked what you understand by the finished work of Christ

And yes a Christian is still a sinner. We are sinners because we still have our bodies of death.


"For this is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief 1Tim 1:15.

author=Sinkills post=51766360]

Putting the cart before the horse. You read your fears into scriptures and they take your joy away

You have stubornly refused to admit the shepherd cannot bear to lose a single sheep no matter how far it strays!

A self righteous person will attribute the prodigal's son's return to his will, but a Christian would not because behind every act of our will lies a power greater than us, causing us to do those things we ought to do as sons. [Philipians2:13]

If we are brought to this knowledge we will understand why the Father would say this to a son
"For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found" (Luke 15:24)


Once a son always a son. Once a Christian always a Christian cos the power that restores us from rebellion is not in us but in the father who dwells in us through Christ.

Of ourselves, we can do absolutely nothing!

An2elect2:

An2elect2:
Ok It is true that Christians do not make a practice of sinning or abide in sin but the question is who keeps the christian from sinning?

Christ and your carefulness? or only Christ?

As for Paul, he had to cry over his impossibility to defeat sin even after being saved. And if you think your carefulness will keep you from sinning, think again

[Paul addressed himself as unspiritual and a slave to sin. A deeper lifer would prefer he used "i was" instead of "i am"]
[b]
Romans 7:14-25

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me[color]. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.[/b]

Sinkills have you ever been brought to this point in your walk? That you despaired over yourself ! Paul said he was wretched!

Have you ever looked at yourself and said: "Sin is stronger than me. I cannot overcome it!" Inspite of how much you tried!

You confessed like Paul, you are a sinner and in you no good dwells. That all the good are in Christ who is your saviour!?

Have you ever been brought to this table? Where
you cry thus," Who will rescue me from this body of death."?

If the only table you have been brought to is to partly rely on your moral strenght and "craftly" calling it the grace of God. Then i am afraid!!!!

Sinkills. Its true that sin kills but it does not kill those in Christ
"But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness." (Rom 8:10)

Paul sinned many times but he was still alive for Righteousness sake, for Christ sake! and not his sake! Thats why i asked what you understand by the finished work of Christ

And yes a Christian is still a sinner. We are sinners because we still have our bodies of death.


"For this is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief 1Tim 1:15.

Ranchhoddas:
How can your efforts not be involved? Just say you want to sin freely and still make Heaven.

An2elect2:
If my efforts were involved Christ died in vain.

Sinkills:
By the grace of God, I am more than four decades on this planet. And you?

Sinkills:
Sometimes, I do wonder if pastor William Folorunso Kumuyi is an ordinary human being like you and myself or specially formed. Do you know why I am awed? Over the decades since this man of God started his God-given ministry after getting born again, there have never been any scandal associated with him inspite of the fact that Satan and his cohorts have attempted severally to bring him down. Despite that he focuses on holiness which is quite unpopular in this sin-sick world, yet the church he superintendents keeps growing by leaps and bounds. At his age of over 75, he keeps going from place to place, region to region, state to state and occasionally outside Nigeria on his evangelical tour, he seems never to get sick for a day. He knows so much of the Bible by the grace of God and teaches it so clearly that you will think he was there when the holy book was written. Most of the places pastor Kumuyi ministers, instant miracles take place -the blind see, the lame and crippled walk, the dumb speak, the mad and mentally derailed regain their sanity, incurable diseases become cured etc, yet this man remains humble and dwells more on how to prepare people for heaven and eternity with God. He does not emphasize on prosperity, yet most of his members continue to prosper financially and materially. A lot of people hate him and the members of Deeper Life Bible Church with passion and find faults with them (because they tend to believe they know God better than others), yet anywhere he goes, mammoth crowd come out to see and hear him. Most of his former sworn critics have ended up joining the ministry God put him in charge of. No doubt, pastor W F Kumuyi is a rare gift to our generation. To God be the glory! Once again I am tempted to ask, is pastor Kumuyi an ordinary human being? And if he is, what are likely his secrets?

CHARLOE:

if u are really that old then u shld know in d 80s, deeper life members never had tvs, d devils box they & their GO called it. i've families who till today dont have 1 in their house

Sinkills:
If you really want to know the truth, Paul the Apostle was in the context of Romans 7:14-25 refering to the general state of an unregerate sinner who knows what is right and wrong and desires to live right but has no power of his own to stop sinning.

The last thing on the unregenerate sinner's mind is to live right. Have you forgotten " But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned 1corinthians 2:14

No man delights in or desires what he considers foolish.

Paul was referring to the regenerated sinners who have been given new hearts and a new spirit and hence new desires [b] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezeikel 36:26

Only the reborn can discern spiritual things. The Law is spiritual too! If not, Paul would have been blameless.
…Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. Philipians 3:6
The natural man hates God and cannot keep the law
And this is the condemnation: that Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John3:19

I have already given you quotations bothering on the falsehood of eternal security

No. You have only misunderstood the scriptures

Let me ask you this: If it is only Christ alone that helps us and we have no responsibility at all on our own stop sinning, why will Christ command people he had earlier forgiven "sin no more lest a worse thing come upon you" and "go and sin no more" (John 5:14; 8:11)?

Have you forgotten that the just shall live by faith. Rom 1:17

Behold the proud, his soul is not upright in him; but the just shall live by his faith Habakkuk 2:4

You so much underrate the power of sin over you that you sadly believe you can put it behind you.

But if you discerned Romans7 as you ought to you will realise you are Sin yourself Paul realised he was his greatest enemy. A natural man cannot understand this

Your power over sin is in Christ. Through faith in Him you overcome your flesh

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:14,15

Just as those who looked in faith to the serpent in the wilderness were healed, so those who look in faith to the lifted up Son of Man will have eternal life .

Let me equally ask you this: Were there people in the bible days who started well with God ie were born again but still fell from grace and went to hell fire or whose eternal destiny is not clear? Of course many. Have you read of Saul, the first king of Israel? What of Solomon, Noah, Gideon, Samson, Judas Iscariot, Ananias and Saphira, Demas etc.

Are you saying that it was God's fault they fell? By the way, for your information, I did not get born again in Deeper Life and I have listened a lot of ministers of the gospel outside Deeper Life who affirm that the doctrine of eternal security is a damnable false doctrine. You cannot hide under Christ to keep sinning. If sin kills unbelievers outside, it kills hypocrites inside the church much more. So it is not about Deeper Life. It is about the truth, about the need to avoid making eternal mistakes, about the eternal destiny of multitudes. Thank you.

Why do you underrate the power of God so much that you think it needs to be helped!

You are like Uzzah who was struck dead for trying to save the arch 2samuel6:7.

God forbid that i am preaching licentiousness!

I would have delighted in sin and swam freely in the oceans of darkness with reckless abandon because i have the full potential to sin but the love of God constrains me! 2cor 5:14

Ranchhoddas:
Is the process of believing in your heart and confessing with your mouth not your effort? Or do you teach predestination?

You should have asked if salvation was my effort

An2elect2:
You should have asked if salvation was my effort