damogul:
Vestigial means An organ that is functionless and generally reduced in size but bears some resemblance to the corresponding fully functioning organs found in related organisms.

Since the jaw bones of mans alleged ancestors are said to be bigger than ours today shouldnt we say our jaw is a vestigial organ since it is smaller?

Since the nostril of mans alleged ancestor is described as being bigger and ours smaller shouldnt our nose bones be seen as vestigial organs as well since they are smaller?

Your talk about vestigial organs is an assumption same way they had an assumption with 180 allegedly vestigial organs in the 1900s but today that is almost squashed.

Are assumptions fact?

MrMontella:

give me scientific journals on it...declaring it as a fact
Not his textbook...

And he listed 86...
People interpreted it to 180...

MrMontella:

lol @generally reduced in size...

Keep on getting wrong information and stating them as what it is supposed to mean...

FYI wisdoom teeth has harmful effects...

damogul:


[b]I seriously suggest you do your research and stop asking me silly questions. "People" did not interpret the 86 to be 180...EVOLUTIONARY SCIENTISTS did.

I wouldnt want to give you links since you are already biased so help yourself with your own private research.

let me give you some of his initial list of vestigials...please look at them carefully

Adenoids
Appendix
Nipples on males.
Nodes on ears, "Darwin's points"
Parathyroid
Pineal gland
Pituitary gland
Plantaris muscle
Thymus
Toes bones III, IV, V
Tonsils
Valves in veins
Wisdom teeth

How many of those few i dropped there look familiar to you?[/b]

MrMontella:

not evolutionary scientists...it was never stated there...the quote of the zoologist in that page sef...seems to be anti-evolutional...
Doesnt mean no evolutionist did tho...
That aside
what do you understand by ''interpretations''?



please do..because i checked his page on wiki and couldnt find any links to journals or thereabouts...



and this proves what?
I dont see your point!...honestly

damogul:


Sometimes when you talk with so much arrogant ignorance i laugh at you.

Click this link and simply type a search with the word small and it will take you to all the vestigial organs and all of them are considered small or reduced in size

Ignorance is not an excuse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality

MrMontella:
Im quite busy..
Well..Im not suprised by the nonsense im seeing here...

that has no importance to my statement...
Stop this red herring..

red herring..
And what do you mean by 5?
5 vestiges in humans or an all-round encompassing figure..?


Here's well respected scientific Journals advocating atavism..as proof of evolution..
Nature.com:Atavism and Human Tails


www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(10)00858-4]Cell.com:Atavism

copy the second link;cell.com to your browser if you intend visiting it...it refused hyperlinking...



[url=onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajmg.a.36234/full]Atavism And Various Atavism Cases[/url]


Here's a text from a Top creationist website;ICR on the human embryonic Tail..

https://www.icr.org/article/1068

It is this embroyonic tail which fails to regress sometimes that expresses itself as a phenotype..
Hence the human tails in new born babies

so...the embroyonic tail is a developing coccyx...and

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail

---

images of atavistic human tails can be found here


let it sink sire!...take your time and study evolution....not these uninformed rambles..
Cheers!

damogul:


You never ever see anothers point but you expect your point to be seen. If you cannot carry out your own research as the self acclaimed intellectual you are then drop it

damogul:


This was the same way the appendix was so vehemently painted as an evolutionary authority until it got debunked.

MrMontella:

there's no debunking that...
Unless the embroyonic tails in humans cease to be a developing coccyx...


2)the appendix is still vestigial...ille est on digestive functions...
Just like the wings of the emu are considered vestigial to flight..but can be used as a shelter from cold.

damogul:
This is what you and science are doing...

Hasty Generalization: A little sample is used to arrive at a grand conclusion. Lets assume your local Motorcycle seller sells Bajaj bikes; a hasty generalization is to conclude that all motorcycle sellers in Nigeria only sell Bajaj Motorcycles.

Begging the Question or circular logic. An assumption is used as the basis to prove a conclusion; in turn, that conclusion is used as a basis to prove the original assumption.

Simply because you noticed a similarity you ASSUME we share the same ancestor (if such is even possible).

Similarity does not prove anything same way the pictures above do not prove those people are related or share the same family tree because THEY DO NOT!

Those are actually identical UNRELATED LOOK ALIKES. You would think they are related but they are not. Genetics may seem similar simply because we are all human but they would not be the same to prove relationship.

Same way a 70% or alleged 90% or whatever percentage DNA similarity between man and bonobos or chimps do not prove ancestry.

ALL WE HAVE ARE ASSUMPTIONS. PERIOD!

I have made this very simple for you.

damogul:



Extract from

http://www.livescience.com/10571-appendix-fact-promising.html
You are obviously not in touch with current positions.

In a way the idea that the appendix is an
organ whose time has passed has itself become
a concept whose time is over. Maybe it's time to correct the textbooks," said
researcher William Parker, an immunologist at
Duke University Medical Center in Durham, N.C.
"Many biology texts today still refer to the
appendix as a 'vestigial organ.'"

MrMontella:


whats with the rambles?
From the page

how does it negate what i said?
Im not sure you got what i said...

Look at the underlined

I said...the appendix is vestigial to digestive functions
i then callibrated my statement with the situation of the emu..for you to grasp the idea..
I know the appendix has immune system functions...
If i considered it a standard vestige...
Why didnt i list it when you asked for a list of vestiges from me?

damogul:
[b]MrMontella i have given you scientific proof from a credible scientific journal that categorically states that the Appendix is not a vestigial organ will you now admit to being wrong?

Will you say that ATAVISM which listed the appendix as a sure proof of evolution is still right?

MrMontella:

on the contrary...
He said ''in a way'' exactly inline with what i said...


shey i talk am say you dont understand atavism?

There was never a time the appendix was listed as an atavistic feauture...by any site,journal or anything...

Atavism still stands brother

damogul:


I am done with you! YOU ARE BEING GROSSLY DISHONEST!

You claimed you knew the appendix had immune system functions yet you called it a vestigial organ

2)the appendix is still vestigial...ille est on digestive
functions...
Just like the wings of the emu are considered
vestigial to flight..but can be used as a shelter from
cold

when the article said IT HAD CRITICAL FUNCTIONS in the immune system (I suppose you missed that word). And they ruled it out as a vestigial organ yet you were still parading it as a vestigial organ.

You are a dishonest fellow.

Discussion ends. Thanks for your time.[/b]

MrMontella:

abeg see wetin i talk here

ille est means ;That is (i.e)
you can misinterprete or misunderstand my statement all you want...


you are the dishonest person here...
Take your time and understand a thing before concluding..

I Never called the Appendix a vestige/vestigial organ
it is you who re-interpreted my words and did so...

MrMontella(m): 7:01pm


2)the appendix is still vestigial...ille est on digestive functions...
Just like the wings of the emu are considered vestigial to flight..but can be used as a shelter from cold.

damogul:



Your words below



How can you look at me can call me dishonest when your dishonesty is repulsive. Why would you call the appendix a vestigial organ to digestive functions

when it is not a vestigial organ AT ALL?

If its function is based on the immune system why would you dishonestly refer it to the digestive system? Are you alright at all?

I have told you that this discussion is over. People who make dishonest arguments piss me off and you are clearly doing so

4kings:

On "ASSUMPTIONS and SUPPOSITIONS" : Evolution is inconclusive therefore it's not a "fact" yet.
But it's a valid "theory"

jonbellion:

Bullshit
It is extremely wrong to apply the second law of thermodynamics to the biosphere or life
Entropy is not "disorder" in the broad sense
It is the degree of dispersion of energy in a system
Disorder is a stupid oversimplification
Entropy decreases when water freezes
So basically ice is more "ordered" than liquid water
Your misconception will ultimately disprove
-the formation of snowflakes
-orbits in the solar system
-growth in living organisms
And
-the formation of rocks
Say NO to pseudoscience

MrMontella:


this is one misconception...
Evolution is a fact...like gravity is a fact...

Darwins theory of evolution tries to help us understand evolution more...just like einsteins theory of relativity...

Darwins theory may be correct..it is a valid theory...

A better theory may replace it...the same way einsteins general relativity replaced much of newton's idea of gravity..

SirWere:
How on earth did this thread hit 40 pages

It's all just the same rambling litany of half-cocked arguments and semi- finished nonsense.

Seriously......

damogul:


Shut up if you cannot refute the OP. Typing isnt proof of intelligence!

DoctorAlien:


You're a seriously confused human being. The link you gave me as the "article published by the researchers themselves" is nonfunctional.

Provide in clear terms the novel information which the E.coli gained through mutation in their genetic makeup.

In Ara–3, [b]numerous deletions,
duplications and amplifications were detected in evolved clones by using genome sequencing data,
including a specific tandem duplication and further
amplification events involved in the production of a novel Cit-positive (Cit+) phenotype

Rearrangement of existing information is not the same as GONI.

We used whole-genome mapping (optical mapping)
combined with genome sequencing and PCR
analysis to identify the large-scale chromosomal rearrangements in clones from each population
after 40,000 generations. A total of 110 rearrangement events were detected including 82
deletions, 19 inversions, and 9 duplications with
lineages having between 5 and 20 events

If you cannot produce it, but are only intent on posting irrelevant sentences, back off!

NB:The American society of Microbiology Journal was a citation of the data released by lenski et al as can be seen in the bottom of the page#Citation

DoctorAlien:


I did not say "if". In Lenski's experiment, no novel information was gained by the E.coli.

DoctorAlien:
LENSKI'S EXPERIMENT DEMONSTRATES THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF FITNESS GAINS ARE AS A RESULT OF LOSS, DISRUPTION OR DEGRADATION OF GENETIC INFORMATION

Publications allege that several genes underwent a genetic mutation that conferred a benefit to the bacteria. In no particular order, I will review each of these examples and discuss the known or hypothesized biochemical basis of how this benefit was achieved. The scientific jargon may be confusing, but take special note of the bolded phrases.

1. First is the pykF gene. This gene encodes one of two pyruvate kinase enzymes that catalyzes the transfer of a phosphate group from phosphoenolpyruvate(PEP) to adenosine diphosphate(ADP) yielding a molecule of adenosine triphosphate(ATP). PEP is also used to help drive the uptake of glucose, a limited energy source in the experiment. The researches noted an insertion in this genetic region that they hypothesized to have inactivated this gene leading to a greater amount of PEP available to drive glucose uptake.

DoctorAlien:
2. Second was an insertion mutation in the regulatory region of the pbpA-rodA operon. This operon (which is a cluster of genes under the control of a similar regulatory unit) encodes two important proteins involved with cell wall synthesis. As all 12 E. coli populations evolved larger cell volumes, the authors hypothesized that altered cell wall synthesis or timing of synthesis may have been beneficial. , The exact mechanism of this mutation regarding a gain or loss of novel information is unknown.

3. A single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) mutation was found in the mutS gene. This SNP produced a premature stop codon and truncated the MutS protein leading to a defect in DNA repair. This particular mutation was of importance because it greatly increases the number of mutations a bacterial population will accumulate over time.

This particular mutation was of importance because it greatly increases the number of mutations a bacterial population will accumulate over time.