Greetings!

It is my belief that pre-marital sex is different from fornication.  The verb "to fornicate" is derived from the Greek word
[b]korinth[/b]iazomai,a word which was derived from the city of Corinth, where promiscuity and sexual immorality abounded like no where else and the corinthians worshipped the goddess of love (eros), Aphrodite.

There were over 1,000 prostitutes in the temple of Aphrodite, so sexual promisuity was the norm.

In Paul's letter to the Corinthians he admonishes them to flee fornication, meaning avoid to avoid sexually promiscuous behaviour, sleeping with prostitutes, and multiple sex partners.

This is different from pre marital sex.

My point is, if you are committed to be married to someone, then having sex with that person does not mean you are a fornicator.

Although I do not condone sex with multiple partners, sex with your boyfriend or fiancee is fine, as long as you are both committed to each other and monogamous.

The floor is now open.

trini_girl:

The floor is now open.

And you are going to get wiped with it .

This one won't even take the "A-Team", any sunday schoolers in the house to disabuse sis' trini of her totally erroneous underastanding?

@ trini girl,

While you're right about the etymology of the word "Fornication", it is also important to note that the word itself has metamorphosed into a widely accepted meaning (just like most words used today).  In simple English, fornication means "voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other."

Pre-marital sex IS fornication!

come come now TV, I know you can do much better than that emotional outburst.

Where are you facts to disprove me?

Goodguy,

What you call "simple english" has also changed the definition of marriage to include homsexuals and lesbians.

So if we conform to "simple english" definitions that we manipulate to suit our needs and not the true real root meaning of words, then you're inferrig that homosexual marriage is acceptable. Yes?

I'm not exactly sure what your topic is about. If its about the grammar of fornication and pre-marital sex; then yes we can say based on your definitions and all that premarital sex and fornication do not mean the same thing. On the other hand, if your topic is about the correctness of having pre-marital sex; then I can tell you straight that it is wrong, from the Bible point and from what God says. The bible says that , the marriage bed undefiled.(im not sure of the exact passage now.) and this unequivocally lets us know that our marriage bed shld be undefiled irrespective of whether you are pledged to be married to the person or not. How many boyfriends or fiances have you had? 1? 2? 3?, so are we saying its okay to keep sleeping with each one of them and if it happens you break up, you sleep with the next one? My dear, its not acceptable in the sight of God.
I know this is soon souding like a sermon but the bible also says the , life of an animal is in the blood. having blood relations with a woman/man by sleeping together joins you to the person and God our creator wants us to be joined only to our married partners not to several ex-boyfriends or fiances as the case may be. Thanks.

sex outside of marriage even a day before marriage is fornication.
I have been there,I know how hard it is to resist intimacy with a fiancee that you love dearly.
The solution is to keep the courtship short and marry,avoid being in romantic atmospheres like romantic movies,alone in a house with slow music playing.

It is not at all easy but can be done.
Above all,if you truly are committed to marriage then go ahead and marry as soon as possible and give the devil no chance to tempt you.

I've even heard  some Christians say that engaged couples can do everything married folks can do but the man must not penetrate.
I think that is so wrong also.
Gods standards remain unchanged even in an ever changing soceity.
Remember that not all engagements have led to marriages and we don't want people just to label a sexual relationship 'engagement' to permit them to hop from one to another.

trini_girl:

Goodguy,

What you call "simple english" has also changed the definition of marriage to include homsexuals and lesbians.

So if we conform to "simple english" definitions that we manipulate to suit our needs and not the true real root meaning of words, then you're inferrig that homosexual marriage is acceptable. Yes?

Are we talking of what is acceptable now, or the root meaning of a word?

Marriage is a union.  If the two people involved in this union are of the same sex, that does not make it acceptable.  But it is still a union, nonetheless.  That the two individuals involved are of the same sex does not make it any less of a marriage.

BTW, what do you mean by definitions being manipulated?  Are you saying lexicographers are generally biased?

Also as battleaxe asked, how many boyfriends or fiancees have you had?  Are you saying it is okay to keep sleeping with each of them after each break up, simply because one is committed during the course of the relationship?  For how long will you keep defiling yourself all in the name of committment? 

Above all, remember Hebrew 13:4.

1 Thes. 5:22 - "Abstain from all appearance of evil."

Pre-marital sex is fornication. Period.

I am disappointed.  I have provided solid evidence that pre marital sex and fornication are not the same, yet I have not seen any evidence that shows that pre marital sex is wrong.  What is this "blood relation" you are referring to battle axe,  in this day and age who has sex without protection?

Religion has brainwashed people into thinking what they want them to as a means of control.  I am not saying that in some cases it is wrong.  It is right not to encourage anyone to have sex before they are ready.  But readiness has nothing to do with marriage.  It has to do with the maturity, committment and love of both individuals involved.

I'm afraid for people who say "this is wrong, period" and have nothing to back it up.  Simply because that's the way it was sold to them.

Again, I am not encouraging promisuity (fornication), simply stating the facts.

trini_girl:

I'm afraid for people who say "this is wrong, period" and have nothing to back it up. Simply because that's the way it was sold to them.

Okay, this is how: when Jesus mentioned fornication in Matt. 5:32, He most definitely was not referring to a practice exclusively deriving from Corinth. He had not even visited the place once. He meant it exactly as it was and still is before Paul became an apostle.

What I can say is that when you put everything together, fornication in any expression as sex between two people not married to each other is a sin.

trini_girl:

I have provided solid evidence that pre marital sex and fornication are not the same, yet I have not seen any evidence that shows that pre marital sex is wrong.  

maybe you should start by telling us your definition of premarital sex.

trini_girl:

Again, I am not encouraging promisuity (fornication), simply stating the facts.

Unfortunately, these facts of yours are indirectly encouraging promiscuity.  Or how else do you explain an instance where you're committed to Mr. A and you sleep with him out of "committment", then along the line, you find out you aren't compatible, and then disengage.  Then you meet Mr. B, fall in love and also commit yourself to him, same thing happens again. .  and then continues like a cycle??  Since according to you, pre-marital sex is right, as long as you're doing it with someone you're committed to; and if you break up and you end up being committed to someone else, you're right to do the same again. . and on and on like that.  Isn't that promiscuity on its own, hence, fornication?

@ goodguy
How many boyfriends I have had or have not had is not yours or any body else's damn business! Assume, presume, speculate and judge all you wish. If you cannot keep focussed on the issue and hand, and not my personal life then you are in the wrong place.

I am not saying that lexicographers are biased but as the world changes, english dictionary meanings (not hebrew/greek meanings) conform to the world views. New words are created every day as the need arises, so too definition of words are being modified as the need arises.

Historically, the word "marriage" has always been assumed to be the biblical definition of marriage ie , man and woman, to create a nuclear family, joined in the eyes of God. Civil union is a separate definition, marriage is more than a "union". With the onset of the gay agenda, the definition of marriage has been manipulated/modified to include same sex unions , which is completely contrary to the Biblical meaning of the word and the purpose for which God intended it to be.

Back to the point may I ask how many women have you slept with Because it seems to me that men are very hypocritical when it comes to sex. The woman must be chaste and a virgin, not deflowered and ready for the marriage bed rubbish. But what about the used and recycled men women get virgin or not when they marry. Please.

Or are all of you virgins?

@ baricade

So what are you saying , Corinth only existed after the ascension of Christ? Corinth had been around for hundreds of years indulging in this behaviour and their reputation was well known

@ good guy

indirect promisuity

Promiscuous sexual behaviour is the act of simultaneously indulging in sexual activity with multiple partners.
So exactly how am I "indirectly" supporting promiscuity?

I have clearly stated that I do not.

@ trinigirl since you already have the answers to your question why ask us?
Your own ideology is the only thing that makes sense to you from your responses so blab on and let's read from you.

@ sissi

I'm simply expressing my opinion and my views.  I never had any questions except those that challenge the belief of others, and I only keep hearing the unfounded  'because the church said so' stance with a few feeble attempts to support it with scripture. I am always open to change though.  

Sex is such a taboo subject, it must be strange to hear a woman talk about it.  To make you feel a better , I'm not Nigerian  

From these posts I get the impression that a lot of nigerian women are sexually inhibited and controlled by what their pastors say about sex.  However I could be wrong. (doh kill me ooo) lol

I started this post with my own conviction. Feel free to express yours as you have.

The Humanist approach seems to be the most sensible.

Humanism

Humanists believe that, in the overwhelming majority of cases, sexual intercourse does no harm in this world. Secular humanism therefore considers most sex acts as morally irrelevant and up to the individual.

The Christian case is definitely not as clear. Fornication could be acceptable even

Paul explains the significance of sexual immorality by writing, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.'" (1 Corinthians 6:15). In quoting Genesis 2:24, many believe Paul is referring to sexual intercourse with a prostitute as marriage. If this view of Paul's teaching is correct, premarital sex is philosophically impossible because sexual intercourse is one form of marriage therefore the technical phrasing is simply "marital sex".


@Trini_Girl

I am booking my flights as I type this. I am coming to show you a little humanism and smoke some pot

trini_girl:

@ goodguy
How many boyfriends I have had or have not had is not yours or any body else's damn business!  Assume, presume, speculate and judge all you wish. If you cannot keep focussed on the issue and hand, and not my personal life then you are in the wrong place.

That question was meant to be rhetorical.  I am not in any way making your personal life my business.  It is actually none of my business.

trini_girl:

Lexicographers or whoever are very biased! Of course! Because as the world changes, they conform to the world.  New words are created every day as the need arises, so too definition of words are being modified as the need arises.

I guess we (or maybe just you) should start taking everything in the dictionary with a pinch of salt.

trini_girl:

Historically, the word "marriage" has always been assumed to be the biblical definition of marriage ie ,  man and woman, to create a nuclear family, joined in the eyes of God.  Civil union is a separate definition, marriage is more than a "union".  With the onset of the gay agenda, the definition of marriage has been manipulated/modified to include same sex unions ,  which is completely contrary to the Biblical meaning of the word and the purpose for which God intended it to be,

It's nice to know you acknowledge the fact that marriage has always been assumed to be what you said it is.  I agree with you on that.  But the lexical makeup of the word makes us realise that it is actually union, and that is why the word itself is applicable to so many other things, apart from man and woman.  Just as the word "couple" is not applicabe to husband and wife alone.  Now I am talking about the grammar here, not the act of marriage itself, as has always been assumed.

trini_girl:

@ good guy

indirect promisuity

Promiscuous sexual behaviour is the act of simultaneously indulging in sexual activity with multiple partners.
So exactly how am I "indirectly" supporting promiscuity?

I have clearly stated that I do not.

Again, I am not exactly directing my post particularly to you.  As to how you indirectly support promiscuity, I'll just copy and paste my post here again:  Since according to you, pre-marital sex is right, as long as you're doing it with someone you're committed to; and if you break up and you end up being committed to someone else, you're right to do the same again. . and on and on like that.  Isn't that promiscuity on its own (multiple partners), hence, fornication?

@ trini_girl?
What exactly then is pre-marital sex? Is it a Sin?

Do you know when you engage in sex outside the room of marriage, when you are not legally married that is you are single, then you are into[b] fornication?[/b]

Do you know as well that when you engage in sex outside the room of marriage when you are legally married is[b] Adultery?[/b]

Rev,

Why are u coming to my country ,  

I have no interest in humanism no thank u , no way ,

@Trini_Girl

Just using Humanism as an excuse for us to blow some pot together

I wonder what would happen to that Christian individual sleeping with a steady boyfriend/girlfriend or his/her engaged and Jesus comes.
just a thought

@ mrpataki

No ,  I don't know these things ,  they are your opinion ,  not mine ,  and as far as I can see, completely unfounded.
Expressions of opinion, that's all.

The issue here is not adultery, it's the definition of fornication.

Pre marital sex, is sex before marriage, but it is not fornication.

trini_girl:

Pre marital sex, is sex before marriage, but it is not fornication.

Okay, lets humour you.
Lets for arguments sake agree that entymologically speaking Pre-marital sex is not fornication.

Question: Is premarital sex a sin?

You are true in what ever you say. But thats the belief of the western world in naija its a taboo to be caught practising pre marital sex it might result to exile. In this generation anything goes, i, wouldnt claim to be a virgin and no regrets also but i feel we should go back to our norms and values so to prevent so many shortcomes like impotency, early pregnancy, veneral diseases, aids, etc. if you can hold unto one partner then do noting else but enjoy the gift of nature

TV

Why are you people trying to back me in a corner to say if it is a sin or not, am I God?

If fornication is a sin, and pre marital sex is the opposite of fornication , then u tell me , is pre martial sex a sin?

I will say it again, if you are in a committed loving monogamous, long term relationship, then having sex is NOT fornication.

So far, no one has solidly shown me an argument that proves otherwise.

@ trini_girl,
Dont get yourself confused here, you are trying to use the escapist strategy here. You were careful to answer me in some respects, but evaded another question i posed at you. If you could bodly declare that fornication is the opposite of pre-marital sex, without including God in it, then you can as well from your own point of view tell us whether pre-marital sex is a sin.
If not, i would rather see this discussion aimless and lame

So trini, is pre-marital sex a sin?

I would like to know whether smooching, necking, pecking caressing, kissing, touching, stimulating ones sex organs by the opposite sex, rubbing of genitals (private sex organs) together by both parties i mean the male and female now just before marriage is not a sin?

Nothing wrong with pre-marital sex at all, only in the mind of twisted people. Sex is an absolutely natural and healthy activity that has nothing to do with owning a piece of paper saying you are married.

Time that people stopped using scripture quotes for the sole purpose of making normal human beings feel bad about themselves and perfectly natural urges and feelings. That is aimless and lame.

@Pataki

Why you are so trying so hard to back Trini_girl into a corner. Do you obtain some kind of perverted pleasure from it?

Take the following as an answer on the behalf of Trini_Girl which will appeal to your bigoted religious brain cells:


Paul explains the significance of sexual immorality by writing, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.'" (1 Corinthians 6:15). In quoting Genesis 2:24, many believe Paul is referring to sexual intercourse with a prostitute as marriage. If this view of Paul's teaching is correct, premarital sex is philosophically impossible because sexual intercourse is one form of marriage therefore the technical phrasing is simply "marital sex".

mrpataki:

I would like to know whether smooching, necking, pecking caressing, kissing, touching, stimulating ones sex organs by the opposite sex, rubbing of genitals (private sex organs) together by both parties i mean the male and female now just before marriage is not a sin?

I suppose you have never done any of those things I bet you even put a rubber glove on your hand when you take a leak and probably wash your cock in holy water afterwards. (if you can find it that is) Gbade will help you I'm sure

Most of the members of this forum have tried some if not most of these things before marriage. If you are one who has not, does that make your normal or abnormal?

Find a scripture quickly to cover your ass

The Ten Pataki Anti Sex Commandments

Thou shalt not smooch
Thou shalt not neck
Thou shalt not peck
Thou shalt not caress
Thou shalt not kiss
Thou shalt not touch
Thou shalt not stimulating ones sex organs
Thou shalt not rub your genitals
Thou shalt not be a normal human being
Thou shalt not feel good about yourself

trini_girl:

If fornication is a sin, and pre marital sex is the opposite of fornication , then u tell me , is pre martial sex a sin?

How is premarital sex the opposite of fornication?  (Opposite? )

trini_girl:

So far, no one has solidly shown me an argument that proves otherwise.

You do not need an argument.  What you need is fact, and that has been provided already.  If you'll agree with thousands of definitions of words offered by the dictionary, but will be so quick to reject the definition of a single word offered by the same dictionary, just to suit your own prejudice, then I see that as pure hypocrisy.

Pataki,

Let me then spell it out for you then, since you can't seem to grasp implied expressions.  Pre marital sex is NOT a sin.

There , I said it , now what.

mrpataki:

I would like to know whether smooching, necking, pecking caressing, kissing, touching, stimulating ones sex organs by the opposite sex, rubbing of genitals (private sex organs) together by both parties i mean the male and female now just before marriage is not a sin?

If the genitals you handle and the genitals of the one you love and intend to marry? By all means handle AWAY!!  
It is not fornication! There is no sin!

Let's be realistic here, apart from the virgin men who shouldn't even be submitting to this post cuz they're clueless, men (christian or otherwise) have sex before marriage, so what is the real issue here?

Is it that you guys think your women should be virgins and untouched? Do you feel threatened that she may have had another lover far better than you? What is it?

I wish someone would bring an intelligent argument.  Please ,

Otherwise , my contention stands.