We all have different views but you must understand that the OT was before Jesus came to save us that was why people that sinned were stoned those were the laws of moses. As i said earlier we all have different opinions , so do ur thang, am not sayin am 100% faithful but i still stand on my grounds that Fornication is a SIN !

I thank you.
But have you not noticed that many people still use the OT to prove a point.
I was under the impression that the OT is outdated by the new one.
And i was under the impression Fornication was a sin
I was even under the impression only thinking about it was already a sin talkless of doing it.

PRE MARITAL SEX IS FORNICATION
_QED

Pre marital sex is good,i actually encourage it but then it does'nt stop it from been fornication.

I think pre-marital sex is good for some reason,
but it is still sexual immorality

hhhhmmmm na wa,wetin i kno go see!

That was a good one

every one forgets about the consequences, when we talk about fornication the first thing that comes to the mind of everyone including YOU-trini- is SEX. so tell me if you fornicate what else do you do besides having sex, oral or whatever. however i agree that fornication includes other things besides sex but it is all centred around one thing, immorality. and all have one consequence, i shoudn't be telling you that

There is always hell to pay my lovely sister. Hell to pay

I agree with babyosisi's first post,

Marriage is honourable in all, the bed undefiled.The wages of sin is death,

Hey trini girl, quite luv r guts, bt i've not really read tru r arguement which has bn on 4 somtym, i guess u've reasons 4 your stance on dx issue, let me perusal seriously n get back 2 u(i need 2 do som reseach u know!)Appreciate r guts still!

Dear All,

I have decided to post definitions of FORNICATION from the net: points include the fact that:

# voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other
# adultery: extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations; "adultery is often cited as grounds for divorce"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# Fornication refers disapprovingly to any sexual activity outside of the confines of marriage, obviously including pre-marital sex. Sometimes adultery is considered a type of fornication.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornication

# Sexual intercourse between two unmarried people.
www.sexualcounselling.com/Glossary/Glossaryf.htm

# Any kind of sexual activity outside of marriage.
www.godonthe.net/dictionary/f.html

# crim. law. The unlawful carnal knowledge of an unmarried person with another, whether the latter be married or unmarried. When the party is married, the offence, as to him or her, is known by the name of adultery. (q. v.) Fornication is, however, included in every case of adultery, as a larceny is included in robbery. 2 Hale's PC 302.
www.new-york-lawyer.ws/law-dictionary/foreign.htm
==It involves sexual relationship between couples outside marriage
==It is unlawful outside marriage.




Having said that the next point is what is the acceptable marriage we are talking about here: of course the bible is always the book of authority for all references:-

===Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. ( definition of marriage from the Bible)

Notice it says the man shall cleave unto his wife, not his girlfriend or someone he has planned, promised or swore to marry.

Also note that it was after the man has left his Father & Mother and cleave that they can be one flesh (typical of sexual relationship), interestingly Adam only knew( had sex) with eve after God had pronounced them husband and wife and even said Eve's desire shall always be for her husband. see references below:

===Gen 3:16  He said to the woman, "I will increase your pain and your labor when you give birth to children. Yet, you will long for your husband, and he will rule you." GW version

===Gen 4:1  Adam made love to his wife Eve. She became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "I have gotten the man that the LORD promised."  GW version

Pls note: Adam made love to his wife, not to the person he promise, swore of planned to marry.

Genesis, being the book of beginings clearly states what God has in mind when he started creation before the pollution through sins.

Finally, not every form of sin was covered in the Bible but we do have the Holy Spirit to guide us and we know it is not right to have sex before marriage with the partner you plan to marry until you have been proclaimed husband & wife and known to be so.

For instance the bible said nothing about masturbation but we know it is wrong because you cant go to church and announce to all and sundry that you engage in masturbation just because it is not in the bible, something in you will quickly caution you that it is a dirty habit and embarassing.

It can be concluded biblically that sex outside marriage can either be fornication or adultery and is a SIN.

Let me see your reply if you are still in doubt Trini Girl, then maybe I should consider praying for you seriosly.

The original word for the English word fornication is from the Greek word, por'nei'a. This means all forms of illegitimate sexual relations, including adultery, and homosexuality [lesbianity]. Premarital sex is illegitimate because the parties have not complied with govrnmental regulations for all marital unions to be registered. It is also a sin in spiritual parlance because Gopd wants our bodies [his temple] to be holy, and fornication defiles the body spitually speaking. Secularly fornication is loose conduct and exposes the parties to indiscriminate behavioral patterns, as they lack self control, a vital virtue both in public life and spirituality. A fornicator lacks respect, he [she] is a thief and a usurper. fornication may not be synonimous to pre-marital sex but it encompasses pre-marital sex and all other sex sins.

demybk:

Dear All,

I have decided to post definitions of FORNICATION from the net: points include the fact that:

# voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other
# adultery: extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations; "adultery is often cited as grounds for divorce"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# Fornication refers disapprovingly to any sexual activity outside of the confines of marriage, obviously including pre-marital sex. Sometimes adultery is considered a type of fornication.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornication

# Sexual intercourse between two unmarried people.
www.sexualcounselling.com/Glossary/Glossaryf.htm

# Any kind of sexual activity outside of marriage.
www.godonthe.net/dictionary/f.html

# crim. law. The unlawful carnal knowledge of an unmarried person with another, whether the latter be married or unmarried. When the party is married, the offence, as to him or her, is known by the name of adultery. (q. v.) Fornication is, however, included in every case of adultery, as a larceny is included in robbery. 2 Hale's PC 302.
www.new-york-lawyer.ws/law-dictionary/foreign.htm
==It involves sexual relationship between couples outside marriage
==It is unlawful outside marriage.




Having said that the next point is what is the acceptable marriage we are talking about here: of course the bible is always the book of authority for all references:-

===Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. ( definition of marriage from the Bible)

Notice it says the man shall cleave unto his wife, not his girlfriend or someone he has planned, promised or swore to marry.

Also note that it was after the man has left his Father & Mother and cleave that they can be one flesh (typical of sexual relationship), interestingly Adam only knew( had sex) with eve after God had pronounced them husband and wife and even said Eve's desire shall always be for her husband. see references below:

===Gen 3:16  He said to the woman, "I will increase your pain and your labor when you give birth to children. Yet, you will long for your husband, and he will rule you." GW version

===Gen 4:1  Adam made love to his wife Eve. She became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "I have gotten the man that the LORD promised."  GW version

Please note: Adam made love to his wife, not to the person he promise, swore of planned to marry.

Genesis, being the book of beginings clearly states what God has in mind when he started creation before the pollution through sins.

Finally, not every form of sin was covered in the Bible but we do have the Holy Spirit to guide us and we know it is not right to have sex before marriage with the partner you plan to marry until you have been proclaimed husband & wife and known to be so.

For instance the bible said nothing about masturbation but we know it is wrong because you can't go to church and announce to all and sundry that you engage in masturbation just because it is not in the bible, something in you will quickly caution you that it is a dirty habit and embarassing.

It can be concluded biblically that sex outside marriage can either be fornication or adultery and is a SIN.

Let me see your reply if you are still in doubt Trini Girl, then maybe I should consider praying for you seriosly.

Is this a joke? Because I really find it funny.  You cannot be serious with this cut and paste kaka!

I have yet to make some sense of it even after I wasted my time sifting through it for some sort of cohesive evidence of a point!

Rubbish!

I made a note in "Should Women Preach" about you hypocrites offering prayers for me, so perhaps you should give it a browse, slowly, maybe read it twice so you can understand.

Next time please before you embarrass yourself again, take the time to read through the thread before you make another boggled attempt similar to this disjointed conflicting garbage!

Btw, who says masturbation is a sin? Another lie perpetrated by religious leadership to control gullible individuals.

wise_guy:

every one forgets about the consequences, when we talk about fornication the first thing that comes to the mind of everyone including YOU-trini- is SEX. so tell me if you fornicate what else do you do besides having sex, oral or whatever. however i agree that fornication includes other things besides sex but it is all centred around one thing, immorality. and all have one consequence, i shoudn't be telling you that

young one,

You are only 17, and this is your first post on Nairaland and your only post on this thread. Welcome!

You are right, you shouldn't be telling me that, or anything concerning sex, since hopefully you are still a virgin, serving the Lord and not indulging in any type of sexual activity.

Keep up the good work and don't concern yourself with sex at all until you are ready in a couple years.

Blessings

Strong’s Lexicon Definition of Fornication

In Hebrew

2181 zanah zaw-naw' ….: to commit adultery (usually of the female, rarely of involuntary ravishment(rape))
figuratively, to commit idolatry (the Jewish people being regarded as the spouse of Jehovah)
(cause to) commit fornication (be an, play the) harlot (cause to be, play the) LovePeddler, (commit, fall to) whoredom, (cause to) go a-whoring, whorish.
________________________________________
2183 zanuwn zaw-noon' from 2181; adultery; figuratively, idolatry:--whoredom.
________________________________________
2185 zonowth zo-noth' regarded by some as if from 2109 or an unused root, and applied to military equipments; but evidently the feminine plural active participle of 2181; harlots:--armour.
________________________________________
8457 taznuwth taz-nooth' or taznuth {taz-nooth'}; from 2181; harlotry, i.e. (figuratively) idolatry:--fornication, whoredom.



In Greek

1608. ekporneuo ek-porn-yoo'-o :--give self over to fornication.
________________________________________
4202. porneia por-ni'-ah from 4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry:--fornication.
________________________________________
4203. porneuo porn-yoo'-o from 4204; to act the harlot, i.e. (literally) indulge unlawful lust (of either sex), or (figuratively) practise idolatry:--commit (fornication).

Strong’s Concordance Definition

In every form it was sternly condemned by the Mosaic law ( Lev 21:9; 19:29; Deu 22:20,21,23-29; 23:18; Exd 22:16). ( See ADULTERY)

, It frequently means a forsaking of God or a following after idols ( Isa 1:2; Jer 2:20; Eze 16; Hsa 1:2; 2:1-5; Jer 3:8,9).

Root : whoredom (to refer to israel’s idol worship) to commit fornication, be a harlot, play the harlot
to be a harlot, act as a harlot, commit fornication, to commit adultery , to be a cult prostitute , to be unfaithful (to God) (fig.)

(Pual) to play the harlot - to cause to commit adultery, to force into prostitution

@ trini_girl,
And what is "strong's" definition of pre-marital sex?

mrpataki:

@ trini_girl,
And what is "strong's" definition of pre-marital sex?

hi pataki,

Unfortunately since the phrase "pre-marital sex" is not found anywhere in the Bible, and Strong's being a Bible concordance and lexicon study of the meanings of root/original words, their context and meaning in Hebrew and Greek, no such definition could be found.

The phrase "pre-marital sex" is one that was created by man to describe sex outside of marriage.

Let me expand my definition a bit at the risk of appearing to contradict myself, since I am also learning more about fornication.

Pre-marital sex (sex before marriage) may be fornication[b] if [/b] the sex is[b] ILLICIT, PERVERSE, or UNNATURAL[/b] example idolatry, homosexuality/lesbianism, harlotry, whoredom (promiscuity) etc.  See above

However, post-marital/matrimonial sex (sex after marriage) can also be fornication and adultery with the same definintion of fornication in each case.

There is no evidence that pre-marital sex with one partner, by consenting adults, in a committed monogamous relationship, over an extended period of time, is fornication.  It is not illicit, it is not illegal, it is not immoral. IT IS NOT FORNICATION and IT IS NOT A SIN

The more we learn what fornication truly is, the more we learn that "normal" pre marital sex is not fornication.

Please, this by no means is a free card for having sex.  In my opinion sex still remains an enjoyable activity between two consenting, responsible ADULTS, in a long term relationship.

@trini_girl

Does it occur to you that pre-marital sex = whoredom?. . .When you're not married and keep jumping from man to man, how is that different from a regular LovePeddler?

i hope this goes for men who do thesame bed hopping? besides who has the right to label another a LovePeddler(in this context) *hiss*

Eurphoria:

i hope this goes for men who do thesame bed hopping? besides who has the right to label another a LovePeddler(in this context) *hiss*

Ofcourse it goes for both sexes, for the man, you can call him a man LovePeddler.

trini_girl:

Let me expand my definition a bit at the risk of appearing to contradict myself, since I am also learning more about fornication.

Hmmm. Some sort of empirical study presumably  !
(I do apologise sister trini-girl, but you walked right into that one! lol!

trini_girl:

There is no evidence that pre-marital sex with one partner, by consenting adults, in a committed monogamous relationship, over an extended period of time, is fornication.  It is not illicit, it is not illegal, it is not immoral. IT IS NOT FORNICATION and IT IS NOT A SIN

But on a more serious note, your argument breaks down right here. Not least because the Bible does not attest to or outline any relationship commitment that allows sexual intimacy outside marriage. Unless of course you can show otherwise.

Further if your quote above is Biblically accurate, it equally serves to legitimises gay-homosexual relationships. Think about that. Then again, maybe you have?

By the sure mercies of God sister trini_girl, I beseech you desist. Now!!

With love

God bless

Donzman:

@trini_girl

Does it occur to you that pre-marital sex = whoredom?. . .When you're not married and keep jumping from man to man, how is that different from a regular LovePeddler?

Donzman,

Yes it has, and you are correct.  As I said before, pre-marital sex is whoredom/fornication when the act is illicit eg homos, (please, I'm repeatinng myself .) , read above.

Maybe this will help you.

LovePeddler:

1 : a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : PROSTITUTE; also : a promiscuous or immoral woman
2 : a male who engages in sexual acts for money
3 : a venal or unscrupulous person
4 : a person considered sexually promiscuous.
5 : a person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain.  

Prostitute:

1 : to offer indiscriminately for sexual intercourse especially for money
2 : to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes : DEBASE
3 : to compromise one's principles for personal gain.

TV01:

Hmmm. Some sort of empirical study presumably  !
(I do apologise sister trini-girl, but you really walked into that one! lol!

hmmm  I'm not surprised ,  everyone else has digressed and speculated about my lifestyle so why not you 

TV01:

But on a more serious note, your argument breaks down right here. Not least because the Bible does not attest to or outline any relationship commitment that allows sexual intimacy outside marriage. Unless of course you can show otherwise.

How about you show new covenant evidence to back up that opinion first.

TV01:

Further if your quote above is Biblically accurate, it equally serves to legitimises gay-homosexual relationships. Think about that. Then again, maybe you have.

Please clarify.  If you think that, you have not been reading my posts.

TV01:

By the sure mercies of God sister trini_girl, I beseech you desist. Now!!

With love

God bless

Who do you think you're bossing around.  Try another one. 

@trini_girl

Now as for sex. God has made us male and female. We complete each other by being in union with each other. This was the case with Adam and Eve. This Bible story shows us that this sort of union is to be between a single couple - two people, a male and a female. A very profound part of that union is the sexual act by which these partners "know" (Biblical word) each other most intimately. Body, soul and spirit enter into this act. God has made it so that there is a particular ecstacy in the accomplishment of it. This may be seen both as a reward and the encouragement to keep on surmounting the various obstacles one meets in uniting with another person - who is the same yet also not the same as you are.

It is probably getting clear to you where this is going. If you are thinking this means one partner in a totally committed relationship for life, you are absolutely right. That in fact *is* the ideal. That is the way it should be. It is often not the case. People die and people get divorced. Marriage is one of the Holy Sacraments or (preferred term) Mysteries. Out of compassion for humans and in order for them to keep on fulfilling their destiny of growth in union, re-marriages are permitted as a concession and are still Holy Mysteries. (There is also the way of monasticism where people fulfill their vocation by being dedicated to God directly instead of through/with a partner as in marriage).

People also have sex before marriage and outside of marriage. From the above you will have noted that, since this is *not* the perfect/proper condition for the sexual act - such actions are sin. Sin can be repented of and we can learn from our falls. But it is important that we view sin as sin - you can not repent of that which you do not consider to be sinful (although in the Orthodox Church we *do* ask for forgiveness of sins we have committed "knowingly and unknowingly". And it is a mistake to do something wrong just because we know we can repent of it and learn from the sin. We should not take God and His forgiveness for granted, just as we should not take our friends and family for granted and be uncaring towards them just because we know they will forgive us. We should always try to be, to do our very best!

In my opinion, whether premarital sex is fornication or not, it departs from what the bible teaches concerning sexy only in a marriage setting. So either ways, it is a sin and something that every Christian should avoid.

For TV01's sake let me amend this statement

There is no evidence that pre-marital sex with one partner between a man and a woman, who are consenting adults, in a committed monogamous relationship, over an extended period of time, is fornication.  It is not illicit, it is not illegal, it is not immoral. IT IS NOT FORNICATION and IT IS NOT A SIN

trini can i ask if all you are saying are based on some religious belief?

@trini_girl

Here is something you can chew on:

"Porneia," as used in the New Testament, has a milieu involving the use the word in Classical Greek, in the Septuagint (LXX), in the Intertestamental period, in Koine Greek, and in Patristic Greek. Looking at these linguistic periods it appears that the word is primarily used for "fornication", both within and without marriage. The LXX uses it predominately for the Hebrew word "zanah"Ñ"commit fornication, be a harlot." This is sexual involvement with humans or false gods. Israel is the bride of God and "fornication" (idolatry) with other gods affects the relationship. (See the minor prophet Hosea who is told to retrieve his unfaithful wife out of harlotry as an image of God's care for apostate Israel.)

In Papyri and other sources the word is has the meaning of "disease," "active excess of evil." The Patristic period after the New Testament uses the word in various manuscripts with meanings of "fornication," "unchastity," "sexual impurity," "illicit intercourse," "prostitution," "adultery (as grounds for divorce)" and "idolatry." So, the question is "what did God intend for the word to convey to the early Church?"

[b]Matthew 5:32 says: "But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity (porneia), makes her commit adultery (moixaw)." 1 Corinthians 5:1 says, "It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality (porneia) of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife." There is the figurative usage of the word as spiritual prostitution or harlotry represented where Scripture says, "Fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality (porneia)" (Rev. 14:. Finally, the New Testament clearly uses the word as a warning against pre-marital sex in 1 Corinthians 7:1-2 when Paul writes "it is good for a man not to touch a woman. But because of immoralities (porneias), let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband." What we see then is that porneia speaks of more than a sexual encounter only within marriage or only outside of marriage.[/b]

Without using the word porneia the Bible still teaches sexual abstinence before marriage. Genesis 2:24 says that a man shall be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. There is a unity implied in the sexual act which is more than just metaphorical. Oneness is physical and spiritual. Israel clearly understood this, since prospective wives were to be virgins. Paul addressed this issue in the New Testament in his warning against temple prostitutionÑone of the organized religions of the day. "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? May it never be! Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a harlot is one body with her? For He says, 'the two will become one flesh.' But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. Flee immorality (porniean). Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man (porneuon) sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?" (1 Cor 6:15-19) If a man or woman, single or married, has sex, there is a oneness union implied. Clearly, this oneness is physically and spiritually reserved for marriage in God's perfect design.

Somehow you have linked various translations of the Bible with the idea that Christianity is making up meanings. The word legitimately has all the variations you mention. The germane issue is the immediate context in which the word is used in the Bible. However, the Bible in whole, written by God, clearly teaches the legitimacy of all meaning of the word. You do not need to become a Greek linguist to understand the Bible. Read it from cover to cover and it is a clear unity. There are many helpful resources (books, classes, software) available that allow a person to go as deep into word study as they want to go.

Again it's the same conclusion, playing on language is a weak argument and even at that, it departs from God's idealistic notion which makes it immoral. Either you're blind to facts or you're knowingly resisting it, I take it you're just resisting in which case the only smart thing to do is to ignore.