DoctorAlien:


If I see rape as good, it is good for me. Assuming 5 more persons, or 100 more persons are of the same view, rape is good for us. Is rape really good?

this is red herring

seems you're now clutching at straws now that I've shown you don't need any god to tell you what's right and wrong with a good example

hopefulLandlord:


this is red herring

seems you're now clutching at straws now that I've shown you don't need any god to tell you what's right and wrong with a good example

Guy, u r dodging so many questions.
Why will u be scared of yes or no question?

hopefulLandlord:


this is red herring

seems you're now clutching at straws now that I've shown you don't need any god to tell you what's right and wrong with a good example

LOL Felixomor really predicted that you'll never answer the question.

But this has been my question all this while: if there are absolute moral values(like desisting from rape), who made them absolute?

felixomor:


What was my initial comment,
"Morality originates from religion"

Or u didnt see that part?
Besides i thought u said "what nonsense religion" before?
Now u mentioning 3? Why?
U didnt know before?

And even if we come out, China is not a good moral example..it defeats your argument hands down.
Till today, china forces women to have abortions.
They have a high number of atheist murderers....

I dont know why u even mentioned them in a morality argument..

by nonsense religion I'm talking "god"

none of their major religion involves a god yet they decided on whats right and wrong, Who told them killing is wrong? who told them rape is wrong?

China forces women to have abortions? and do you know the reason for that?

hopefulLandlord:


by nonsense religion I'm talking "god"

none of their major religion involves a god yet they decided on whats right and wrong, Who told them killing is wrong? who told them rape is wrong?

China forces women to have abortions? and do you know the reason for that?

Oh
So

It is good to force women to have abortions?
True or False?

felixomor:


Guy, u r dodging so many questions.
Why will u be scared of yes or no question?

He's clutching on to an obvious moral absolute so as not to appear bad, and yet he is denying the Author of that moral value A simple yes or no would have been enough for me.

DoctorAlien:


Can the views of a group of persons turn something that could be a relative(desisting from rape) into an absolute?

Yes. In Saudi Arabia the views of a few men have turnew something like driving for women into a crime. Today in Saudi Arabia if you drive as a woman you will be arrested for breaking the law.

Remember humans were the ones that formulated and legislated laws for slavery and when they realized that slavery wasn't good they legislated and formulated laws against it. Humans are the ones that created all moral laws of conduct. Religion is only an enforcing mechanism. Read the US Constitution as a perfect example.

DoctorAlien:


LOL Felixomor really predicted that you'll never answer the question.

But this has been my question all this while: if there are absolute moral values(like desisting from rape), who made them absolute?

can there be good or bad without a god?

who made rape wrong in China?

until you tell me the god that gave the Chinese their morals I think I'm done here

DoctorAlien:


He's clutching on to an obvious moral absolute so as not to appear bad, and yet he is denying the Author of that moral value A simple yes or no would have been enough for me.

Exactly.
They are the same people who would accuse religious people of " fallacy of appeal to authority"

hopefulLandlord:


can there be good or bad without a god?

who made rape wrong in China?

until you tell me the god that gave the Chinese their morals I think I'm done here

The escape is complete

dalaman:
Yes. In Saudi Arabia the views of a few men have turnew something like driving for women into a crime.

That women should desist from driving is not a moral absolute.

Don't prove to us that you're not intelligent.

hopefulLandlord:


can there be good or bad without a god?

who made rape wrong in China?

until you tell me the god that gave the Chinese their morals I think I'm done here

LOL GOD is the Author of the universal moral code.

Don't tell me you're running. Whether rape is wrong in China or Gambia is not the issue. You might want to go and read the thread again from the beginning. The issue is: if I decide that rape is good, it is good for me. Assuming that 200 more people share the same view, rape is good for us. Now, is rape really good?

DoctorAlien:


LOL GOD is the Author of the universal moral code.

Don't tell me you're running. Whether rape is wrong in China or Gambia is not the issue. You might want to go and read the thread again from the beginning. The issue is: if I decide that rape is good, it is good for me. Assuming that 200 more people share the same view, rape is good for us. Now, is rape really good?

felixomor:


Oh
So

It is good to force women to have abortions?
True or False?

see? now you're asking good question, what are the reasons?

this is why morality as a whole is never absolute, there is always context

let's look at Denmark, why aren't they forcing women into abortion but China does?

overpopulation is the reason, the population is getting too out of hand that the government sees disaster coming unless they stem it

how did they do this? they passed a law on the highest number of children a couple can have and if you happen to get pregnant when past that, you would be forced to abort

that context now makes sense

so your question, is it wrong for the "Chinese" to perform forced abortions? looking at the reasons NO its not wrong

but that doesn't mean I'll say yes if Denmark starts doing the same thing, Comprende?

What benefits one person may be detrimental to another person. We can always think of exceptions to any rule. It may be wrong to kill someone but it may be necessary to kill in some circumstances because it is the lesser of the evils. Is it wrong to steal? What if you steal from someone who wastes food while your child is starving? If morality was objective, it would mean killing is either wrong or not wrong, stealing is either wrong or not wrong, regardless of the situation.

All definitions are subjective. Definitions are useful as long as there's good agreement on them and they suit the purpose they were defined for. your question suits, but is incomplete in that it doesn't iterate out all harms, or all sufficient reasons.

If you're wanting a very concise definition of "immoral" you're not going to find one which is useful or ultimately meaningful. Similarly, if you want a useful definition that actually works to reduce harm, then it's a very long and complex definition.

But just because morality is a hard subject, and the definition long and nuanced, doesn't make it necessarily subjective. We all feel pain in similar ways, we all have similar needs of food, shelter and company.

But you defining morality as coming from god is entirely subjective as that definition comes from your mind.


I think I'm done here

Olodo... God asked them to "MARRY" a virgin each. And he specifically said that the men who should marry them must be unmarried men and they must treat them as a wives, not as slaves.

dalaman:


Rape was so good to your God that he watched as his chosen men happily shared virgins as war booty. He even asked rapist to marry their victims.

The bible is filled with genocide and murder as commanded by your God yet you are still talking about murder as a bad thing?

DoctorAlien:


That women should desist from driving is not a moral absolute.

Don't prove to us that you're not intelligent.

Humans can create moral.absolute laws. A few men ended slavery and criminalized slavery. Same with genocide. A few men criminalized it.

Omudia11:
Olodo... God asked them to "MARRY" a virgin each. And he specifically said that the men who should marry them must be unmarried men and they must treat them as a wives, not as slaves.

So if a person enters your house, kills your parents, siblings and takes you as his wife, he has done a good thing abi? You see why we atheist have no respect for some of you?

dalaman:


Humans can create moral.absolute laws. A few men ended slavery and criminalized slavery. Same with genocide. A few men criminalized it.

I seriously don't want to believe that you're dull. Do you even know what a moral absolute is? That something is enforced by a group of humans does not mean it is a moral absolute.

Please, make meaningful contributions, not ignorant comments. Go and first check the meaning of moral absolute, then come back.

I'm learning

DoctorAlien:


I seriously don't want to believe that you're dull. Do you even know what a moral absolute is? That something is enforced by a group of humans does not mean it is a moral absolute.

Please, make meaningful contributions, not ignorant comments. Go and first check the meaning of moral absolute, then come back.

There are no moral absolutes.

dalaman:

There are no moral absolutes.

So rape is not really bad?

DoctorAlien:


So rape is not really bad?

The bible doesn't see rape as a bad thing. If you rape a lady you will be rewarded with her as your wife.

dalaman:


The bible doesn't see rape as a bad thing. If you rape a lady you will be rewarded with her as your wife.

See human being abeg Who dey talk about Bible here?

DoctorAlien:


See human being abeg Who dey talk about Bible here?

Just cutting the chase. Your position is that morality is from the God of the bible and am trying to show you that he doesn't consider rape as a bad thing since he rewards rapist with their victims as wives.

dalaman:


Just cutting the chase. Your position is that morality is from the God of the bible and am trying to show you that he doesn't consider rape as a bad thing since he rewards rapist with their victims as wives.

Please swerve. Employing red herring in arguments is not considered intellectual.

Bye.

ValentineMary:

Jesus!!! Did u even read what I wrote? I said we choose our purpose. They are not integrated into us.
God gave man freewill yet he has a purpose for us You still don't see the inconsistencies right?

What gave us the inclination to seek or choose our purpose, how did a purposeless and meaningless universe give rise to beings that seeks their purpose, even when the universe that predated them has no Meaning or reason for its existence.

How did purpose or the thought of purpose come about.

DoctorAlien:


Please swerve. Employing red herring in arguments is not considered intellectual.

Bye.

Run along Mr intellectual.

DoctorAlien , good job . So many inconsistencies in their beliefs as atheists .

Please another question I want atheists to answer is : if it is possible for the universe not to exist , then why does it exist?

hopefulLandlord:




see? now you're asking good question, what are the reasons?

this is why morality as a whole is never absolute, there is always context

let's look at Denmark, why aren't they forcing women into abortion but China does?

overpopulation is the reason, the population is getting too out of hand that the government sees disaster coming unless they stem it

how did they do this? they passed a law on the highest number of children a couple can have and if you happen to get pregnant when past that, you would be forced to abort

that context now makes sense

so your question, is it wrong for the "Chinese" to perform forced abortions? looking at the reasons YES

but that doesn't mean I'll say yes if Denmark starts doing the same thing, Comprende?

What benefits one person may be detrimental to another person. We can always think of exceptions to any rule. It may be wrong to kill someone but it may be necessary to kill in some circumstances because it is the lesser of the evils. Is it wrong to steal? What if you steal from someone who wastes food while your child is starving? If morality was objective, it would mean killing is either wrong or not wrong, stealing is either wrong or not wrong, regardless of the situation.

All definitions are subjective. Definitions are useful as long as there's good agreement on them and they suit the purpose they were defined for. your question suits, but is incomplete in that it doesn't iterate out all harms, or all sufficient reasons.

If you're wanting a very concise definition of "immoral" you're not going to find one which is useful or ultimately meaningful. Similarly, if you want a useful definition that actually works to reduce harm, then it's a very long and complex definition.

But just because morality is a hard subject, and the definition long and nuanced, doesn't make it necessarily subjective. We all feel pain in similar ways, we all have similar needs of food, shelter and company.

But you defining morality as coming from god is entirely subjective as that definition comes from your mind.


I think I'm done here

Morality is absolute.
There is nothing like subjective morality.
Thats why u couldnt answer the question of DoctorAlien because if i form a country with like people like me and decide to sacrifice children to gods for the prosperity of the nation, it will never be right.
Likewise, Rape will never be right.

If its not absolute, forget it.
Even criminals have a context for everything they do that is correct inside their mind.

This is the fourth page already and no "atheist" has been able to tell us why something like rape is bad, or why laws of logic exist, and are abstract and absolute.

DoctorAlien:
Now, some atheists might respond, “That’s right! Morality is subjective. We each have the right to create our own moral code. And therefore, you cannot impose your personal morality on other people!” But of course, this statement is self-refuting, because when they say, “you cannot impose your personal morality on other people” they are imposing their personal moral code on other people. When push comes to shove, no one really believes that morality is merely a subjective, personal choice.

Excuse me, I was just scrolling through posts shared with me and then I saw this part @bolded. You, sir, are intelligent.

DoctorAlien:
This is the fourth page already and no "atheist" has been able to tell us why something like rape is bad, or why laws of logic exist, and are abstract and absolute.

Wrong as you say is a matter of opinion, smoking might be wrong to some and to some it's totally okay..

A lion killing a zebra for food is wrong because it causes harm to the coexistence of those zebras, yes to the zebras it is wrong, but a lion has got to survive...

What we all agree to as "wrong" are things that affect the people around you, the law might view suicide as bad, but to the person committing it, it's his life, as far as he ain't killing someone, he's free to do whatever he likes to himself..

Anything that will not promote peaceful coexistence is wrong! Because a particular party would be feeling the effects, this party didn't choose what's happening to him/her so it's wrong..

But apart from that, every other thing you do that do not affect others, you are totally free, you can have sex with animals (as far as you ain't forcing them), sleep with your siblings (as far as they agree), sleep with your mum/dad(as far as they are totally in agreement), smoke, drink, dress anyhow, as far as these things are not causing harm to anybody, they are not wrong, and someone's opinion of these being wrong will not make them really wrong..

How's rape? rape affects people(victims) .. it's wrong!

If you think a god made you see things as wrong and as good, then you ain't ok.. Even before religion and gods were created, humans had do's and don'ts, so don't tell us shit about a god creating morals cuz we ourselves created that god,and even wrote his supposed laws..

Someone telling you to not impose your views on him, is imposing nothing on you, he's not going to threaten to kill you or threaten you with eternal torment, he's just asking you to "mind yourself", even though to some level, it'll seem as if he's giving you his own moral code, but you started it, and he's just telling you to keep them to yourself..

felixomor:


Morality is absolute.
There is nothing like subjective morality.
Thats why u couldnt answer the question of DoctorAlien because if i form a country with like people like me and decide to sacrifice children to gods for the prosperity of the nation, it will never be right.
Likewise, Rape will never be right.

If its not absolute, forget it.
Even criminals have a context for everything they do that is correct inside their mind.

If morality was absolute, there would be no controversy as to right or wrong. Morality goes beyond murder and rape, it includes things like pre-marital sex, drinking of alcohol, wearing of mini skirts, smoking... The controversy as regards morality far outweighs the consensus about morality.