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Stats: 1,863,702 members, 3,738,195 topics. Date: Monday, 21 August 2017 at 11:16 AM
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by menxer(m): 5:16pm On Jan 11|
@bolded, You are wrong.
Why did the Israelites ask Prophet Samuel for a King?
They wanted a separation of spirituality from governance.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Segadem(m): 5:17pm On Jan 11|
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by menxer(m): 5:22pm On Jan 11|
2dugged:You are playing the victim card then.
As long as the atheist argument subsist, we all are atheists.
Do you believe in Baal?
If No, does that make you an atheist?
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by OBAGADAFFI: 5:23pm On Jan 11|
The FRCN created the code, and CAN complained about it.
CAN and co were not involved the creation of the code.
Go check how the legislators make laws, they invite all parties to the table, and also make sure their views are included in the final bill.
FRCN has also been criticized severally for act.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by menxer(m): 5:30pm On Jan 11|
Do you have a link to proof they were not involved?
Here is a link that shows they were.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Nobody: 5:31pm On Jan 11|
kjhova:I never aligned both, only made that statement cos atheist find it easier to pick on Christians than Muslims for obvious reasons
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|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by athorello(m): 5:32pm On Jan 11|
What I'll really love is a situation where current spiritual/religious leaders will become emeritus/spiritual advisors before their demise. In other words, there should be a clear succession plan so there'll be no vacuum in case of demise of founder/G.O. In fact they should have raised or mentored world renown leaders as well.
All ministers in the ministry should be bound to a retirement provision from active worldly positions. If the founder must enjoy all privileges till his or her demise, then there should be agreeable and binding provisions for the future. What is seen as a right today will become a privilege tomorrow.
Let's take a leaf from the early Apostles. Jesus proclaim Peter to lead his sheep but that didn't prevent the Apostles from making James their leader and head of Council. For our current church groups, their councils should be mandated to appoint new leaders following an agreed term. Contentions will always arise but founders and leaders should pave way for amicable resolutions before they leave. I don't want to even mention the various fightings and several court cases that trail the demise of religious founders in recent past and locally.
Now when you register your organization as an NGO you should be subject to the laws of the land. In this case it was meant to give room for accountability but many of us thought otherwise, meddling or witch hunting.
Finally, I don't think our G.O will lose his spiritual place in life and ministry by relinquishing a wordly position. He'll still be active in his ministrations (like I watched on TV during the Lagos state thanksgiving), tours and outreaches like the Apostle Paul.
So people of God lets keep calm!
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|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Nobody: 5:34pm On Jan 11|
menxer:subsist? Hehehehe I laugh, and what is baal? I recognize it exists but I don't serve it, now those are two different things, you really need to go back and check the meaning of atheism
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|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Gfish: 5:35pm On Jan 11|
You always make sense. I agree and support but Obazee got the inspiration due to personal grouse. like you said sentiments shouldnt be the basis to abuse office.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Mc4larin: 5:36pm On Jan 11|
Are you really this stupid?
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by ourema(f): 5:39pm On Jan 11|
Good thinking good product. I am of the opinion that the black African mentality is what is killing us. We all love good governance but we are too lazy to implement it. Even the ones the court had helped us interpret we still find it hard to align our mentality with the laws.
If I have to come back again to this life certainly would not want to come as an African
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by bundle33: 5:39pm On Jan 11|
People of Nigeria shall resist this code and order from administration of clawless buhari..why should u intervene in religious affair...there is a different in politics and religious...interfering is like putting ur eyes in hot pot of soup...clawless Buahri will say he's not concerned and not in ful knowledge of this...We Nigerians shall vote u out come 2019...watch out
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by AntiWailer: 5:47pm On Jan 11|
Folarin when you get home, if there is anybody you can ask.
Ask them. They should answer if they are alive.
For an Ultimate Cycler Promoter and failed blogger asking me if I am this stupid.
I am sure you don't have a University Education because If you do, Comprehension should not be your problem.
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|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by OBAGADAFFI: 5:47pm On Jan 11|
From your link.
“There is an issue with the new code of corporate governance and the minister wrote the Financial Reporting Council and told the council not to execute it because a lot of people from the private sector have complained about it.
“So, the minister wanted to look into it and see what the issues were. He (FRCN boss) was asked not to go ahead with executing it. There is a controversy on that FRCN issue and we are now looking into the matter to know what the issues are before we can finally take a decision. This is where the matter is currently.”
“The private sector came to us three weeks ago and they told us the sections they wanted amended and we told them that we will look at it when we are doing what we call fine-tuning.”
If you noticed Both the Private sector and Churches complained about the law.
But he (Mr. Jim Obazee) assured the Private sector of an amendment.
Which means, the Private sector and NGOs were not involved or consulted when making the law.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by SillyMods: 5:54pm On Jan 11|
TonyeBarcanista:At first, I was angry with the president for sacking the former frcn boss but when you consider the fact that he disobeyed his boss order, you'd agree that he deserved what he got.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by wolfash: 6:02pm On Jan 11|
[quote author=menxer post=52723219]
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Sheggy13(m): 6:05pm On Jan 11|
wolfash:What official statement are you waiting to read? It's all over the news that the G.O. Adeboye accused the government of meddling into the affairs of the church in a ministers meeting in the RCCG camp, because of this same FRC code that mandates them to a tenure of 20 years. He has not come out to debunk the news and pastors present in that meeting also agreed that what the Press released about Adeboye's stance on this issue is true (I know one personally who was present and agreed also). You don't have to make excuses for Adeboye.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Siscooh: 6:15pm On Jan 11|
Hear this counsel. Leave God's church quietly you hear!? OK.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by tainot2002(m): 6:42pm On Jan 11|
One thing about this country is that we are usually dishonest, emotional and sentimental with ourselves over issues that has to do with religion and the State. I shall speak on the controversy surrounding the former National Overseer of Redeemed Christian Church of God, Pastor Eunuch Adeboye, the Federal Reporting Council of Nigeria governing code for not-for-profit organisations, the suspension of the code, and the unfortunate sack of Dr. Jim Obazee.
1. The NGO Governance Code Has Court Legitimization:
The code was enacted in 2015 to regulate NGOs in the country, including Church and Mosques. I don't believe it was targeted at any individual, religion or sect.
During its enactment and hearing, a group of Pastors including those from Adeboye's RCCG and other Pentecostal Churches went to federal high court, Lagos to challenge the suit in July, 2015. on Wednesday, March 23, 2016, Honourable Justice Buba dismissed the suit and upheld that the plaintiffs had no locus standi to challenge the suit. The ruling thereafter gave the Council the legitimacy to implement the code.
2. On The Provisions Of The Code
I have heard people larment that the code was meant to stifle Christianity and the Church, but on scanning through the provisions of the code, I am yet to see where they get such Idea from.
Firstly, the code does not spare any organisation or sect that is registered as NGO. It does excused Islam/Mosque, neither does it specify a particular sect, religion or church. Even charity organisations are subject to the code as long as they are registered as NGO in Nigeria according to our laws.
Secondly, on the provision of the code, the code simply mandates Chief Executives, organisational heads, founders, General Overseer etc of NGOs to a specified term in office and not to create a sense of "ownership" of their organisations by them. It made it clear that relatives and spouses of organisation heads should not "inherit" the respective organisation under any guise. It allows for accountability to the organisation/members by the heads of the NGOs, as well as mandates financial accountability to the government.
What Is Wrong With The FRCN Good Governance Code For NGOs?
Why should a not-for-profit organisation head wish to "own" the organisation by staying in office without term limit? Why should there not be succession plan in Non-governmental organisation, including churches and mosques? Why should an NGO be inherited by spouse and relatives? What is wrong with Churches and Mosques being accountable to their members and donors, as well as to the government, paying taxes where applicable should they indulge in profit making activities? Is the Church the only group affected?
We are in a society where crises usually brew in churches after demise of founders and General Overseers simply because of lack of succession plan. We are in a society where religious bodies hide under the guise of "the Church" to engage in profit making ventures, yet refused to pay tax to the government like every for-profit organisation. We are in a society where NGO heads lavish organisational funds without accountability to anybody, yet these monies were donations, levies, offerings, tithes etc to the organisations for some purpose or the other. What is wrong with accountability to members and donors of organisation? Is this not a global practice? Will the Bill Gate Foundation donate money without asking for accountability?
What is wrong in clerics contributing to pension funds so as to ensure that their pension is protected by law after retirement? Won't this arrangement help junior pastors?
What exactly is wrong with the bill?
Why Redeemed Christian Church And Some Other Pentecostals?
Firstly, of all the NGOs that includes foundations, charities and Mosques, only Pastors from RCCG and some other Pentecostal Churches went to court to challenge the code. Is there something they are not telling the public? Fine, they exercised their right to challenge government policy, but judgement has been delivered, is it not appropriate to respect the decision and live with the regulation or approach a higher court to set aside the lower court's ruling? Why should Redeemed Church and some Pentecostal Christians see it as a personal battle?
With due respect to RCCG, the code was meant to apply not only to Pastor Adeboye or RCCG, but also to other religious organisations and their heads including Mosques. Making it appear like a personal war against the Redeemed Church or Christianity is improper and against the teachings of Apostle Peter in 1 Peter 2:13-17.
Christianity, The Church And Civil Authority:
1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
1 Peter 2:14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
1 Peter 2:17 Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.
That was a clear instruction to Christians by Apostle Peter. Christians have no history of resisting civil laws/codes even at the point of death during the time of the Roman rule. That was what distinguished Christians from others.
This Code is in fact aimed at sanitizing the society against abuse by so-called religious leaders and bodies. The Church must be subject to the civil authority of the State as long as it doesn't conflict with the demand of God Almighty and His Christ. This is a fact we must get used to or go to court if unsatisfied.
The Sack Of Dr Obazee Is A Bad Omen
The sack of the erstwhile boss of the FRCN may elicit cheers from religious sentimental people, but it only shows that President Buhari is leading Nigeria via sentiment and not principle. Sacking a man for doing his job after obtaining a legal victory is unfortunate and uncalled for. Appointees of government must be allowed to do their jobs without fear or favor to any group, but President Buhari and his minister of trade and investment expected appointees to only do what they ask and not what is to be done. This is unfortunate and a bad omen to leadership. Why should a policy be suspended because of a particular religion/church? Isn't the law meant to be above every individual and group? This is sad!
In conclusion, we must be aware that in sane climes like Europe, USA, UK and South Africa, such institutions (Religious and other NGOs) are well regulated, especially with respect to their finances and management. RCCG and some other churches have their branches over there and they comply with their regulations. Why should they now have problem with ours? Churches, Mosques and other NGOs are not classified under sole-proprietorship, and as such can't be said to belong to any SINGLE individual irrespective of his status or perceived status. Hence, management and finances must be regulated to reflect that.
Finally, irrespective of my Christian faith, it is my belief that sanity must be brought in our society. If Jesus could pay his tax as a male adult (according to the law) and subject himself to civil law, why not his followers?
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by rman: 7:04pm On Jan 11|
Nice. Insightful and concisely put.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by TonyeBarcanista(m): 7:17pm On Jan 11|
Themandator:Bro every country with their laws na. Haba! I see no wrong in this code, after all, the church is not a personal business of anybody
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by TonyeBarcanista(m): 7:22pm On Jan 11|
greenpasture:If you are of the opinion that the Code contravenes existing laws, why not go to Appeal court to challenge the verdict of the Lagos Division of Federal High Court?
I appreciate your position on the subject and it was insightful.
I am not after the legality or otherwise of the Code, that is the business of the court.
I am only after the implementation which I am in full support.
I'm glad to see you here
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by musicwriter(m): 7:36pm On Jan 11|
Thank you for the bolded.
Sometimes I wonder whether these GOs and pastors really do believe in God or the Jesus they preach. Indded, the bible said the GOs and pastors are not the head of the church, but Christ.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Phinity318(m): 7:37pm On Jan 11|
Religion been the opium of the masses
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Montaque(m): 7:44pm On Jan 11|
I must have to agree with the OP on this issue.
The hands with which you dish out the soup can affect its taste, so says an old adage.
Pmb has a religious shadow behind him, even when things are straight forward, once it concerns religion, the interpretation will be against him.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by greenpasture(m): 7:57pm On Jan 11|
I believe the President has done the right thing in suspending the Code. There is no need to Appeal a code ( remember it isn't a law. - more on that below) that is void abinitio - it never happened. If the DG of the ministry of Tourism passes a " law" making valentine day a public holiday - would an appeal to court be needed? Probably not because the action is illegal from the onset.
As we speak I hear that the HoR in the NASShas today passed a resolution on the issue with the following highlights
( it should be publicly available soon)
House of Reps, Resolution, today after debate:
1)No Agency can fix tenure of religious leaders
2)Public hearing to follow
3)FRC Act 2011 did not make provision for tenure of office of religious bodies or non-profit organisations
4)Delegated legislative powers should have been mandatorily approved before application
5)The Governance Code as it relates to non-profits is a clear usurpation of the powers of the national Assembly as stipulated in S.4 of the Constitution of the FRN, 1999
6)The NA has in no way approved the Corporate Governance Code
I think this a fair reflection of things as they stand.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by menxer(m): 8:03pm On Jan 11|
“The code has been on naturally, right from (ex-President Goodluck) Jonathan’s time and this has been over four years. When the code was being done, we engaged all the stakeholders and their presentations formed part of what was in the code at the end of the day.
“The only people that took the matter to court were the churches and they lost. It was on the day they lost that our legal adviser said ‘okay, we could go ahead and release the code and that if we don’t release this code, other bodies will go to court to challenge it’.
I guess you did not see the bolded in the link, can you explain that?
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by menxer(m): 8:14pm On Jan 11|
The question was not if you recognize but if you believe in Baal.
Subsist as used in this context means to "Linger"
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Lifestone(m): 8:26pm On Jan 11|
The issues is beyond the code,
1. Obazee was very rude to his supervising Minister by call his bluff and proceeding with the implementation of the code when the Minister required his to allow for more consultation.
2. Media has it that Obazee was sacked by Pastor Adebioye and he only try to target him with the Age thing.
3. How did USA managed her code Copeland remained the head of his church till death.
4. What of Cater Foundation that was led by President Jimmy Cater till his death.
If these codes focuses more on financial rules that will promote transparency,it will be good,but targeting individuals rather than system is calling for what he got.
The point is that Obazee is arrogant in his approach. Example is his problems with the MD/CEO of Stanbicibtc.
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by TonyeBarcanista(m): 8:59pm On Jan 11|
greenpasture:Bro, the FRCN has regulatory powers, it is ridiculous not to allow them do their job.
the court ruling gave the regulations legitimacy, but if NASS say they want to look at it, then I wonder whether Nass want to take the powers to regulate NGOS
|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by Nobody: 9:07pm On Jan 11|
menxer:that I don't believe in it doesn't make me an atheist,recognizing the existence of a thing is different from believing in it,hence the reason i told you to go back and check for the meaning of atheism, seems you don't grab the concept
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|Re: Why I Support FRCN's Governance Code For NGOS by menxer(m): 9:17pm On Jan 11|
thanks for the bolded.
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