analice107:

Like seriously? Where will i start from?

And, thanks for your kind words.

Writing isn't difficult. The most difficult part is starting. It might not a book, it might just be an article.

aminusanti:


Cc: analice107, alBHAGDADI, babseg, ilynem, annunaki2, Felixomor

I laugh after reading ur thread and its title.
"Title" you are really ignorant about ur own religion, at least you should get to know the basic history of how christianity started and divided before coming up with such thread but d funniest part is your other fellow christians that are jumping, singing n dancing without even understanding what u posted..lol may God save you pple.

It is clear in the Quran that Allah only deceived those who were plotting to kill Jesus. He did not deceive everyone...

►Surah 4:157
And [on account of] their saying: "We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, messenger of God." They did not kill him and they did not crucify him, but it was made to seem so to them. Those who argue about him are in doubt about it. They have no real knowledge of it, just conjecture. But they certainly did not kill him.

The verse clearly says that those who claimed that they killed the Messiah were deceived. It didn't say everyone was deceived

►Now understand ur religion history a litle
That event of crucifixion itself was not the beginning of Christianity. Decades after the event, it was Paul whose writings  and letters became the cornerstone of Christianity. 

During Paul's lifetime and in the next three centuries, there were many different lines of thought concerning Jesus, and in the followers of Jesus.It wasn't until the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE that much of what the Christianity has believed was formalized as far as Catholics are concerned. The Council depended heavily on the letters and the writings of Paul, who appears to be the first to proclaim that Jesus was the son of God.

So to come back to your question, the witnesses to the Crucifixion were a handful of people; and I do not see anywhere in the Qur'an that they are "blamed". If they follow jesus teachings

It is the subsequent development of theology based on Jesus being the son of God, who was crucified for the sins of humanity, and that he is the savior of anyone who takes an oath that saying, "Jesus died for my sins and was raised up for my salvation".  It is that which the Qur'an rejects.
 
The question assumes that all followers of Jesus including his apostles who saw him thought that Jesus was crucified, and that Christianity today is the same version of Christianity at that time and all the Christian sects believe in the crucifixion. Is it?

The gospels are not reliable. The authors are not most likely Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, and they didn't see Jesus. The narrations have many contradictions in crucifixion and resurrection. On another level, Jesus never preached crucifixion according to the goapels. In fact, he prayed to God to "let the cup (of being killed) pass" three times in Mat 26.

Paul was the one who contributed in spreading the story of crucifixion to pagans and canceled the law. There were sects and people who disagreed with the teachings of Paul. Historically, we have no much information. However, surely they were not one entity.

Let's assume all or some Christians were decieved and believed that Jesus was on the cross. No problem until now, but don't tell me they were deceived that the one who died was God and that the law is canceled because it is a curse and Jesus became a curse and that he is the second person in trinity!

This argument is completely flawed, as well as deceptive. Anyone who knows a thing about Christianity knows that Christianity is not simply based on Jesus dying on the cross, but is also connected to the resurrection. The resurrection of Jesus is in fact the central tenant of Christianity and the most important part of the entire crucifixion account.

The apostle Paul himself explicitly said that if Jesus did not rise from the dead, then Christianity is false, and the beliefs of Christians has all been in vain:

"And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."--1 Corinthians. 15:17-20

So Christianity is based on both, Jesus dying, and Jesus rising. It’s not simply based on Jesus dying, for example if you believed that Jesus died on the cross, but did not rise from the dead, then you are not an orthodox xtian, nor will you be considered a xtian. So therefore when u pple try to claim that Allah making it appear that Jesus died on the cross led to the birth of Christianity, is a blatant distortion because they themselves know that Christianity is not simply based on Jesus dying on the cross.

At the end of the day, how does one jump from Jesus dying on the cross, to Jesus dying on the cross for the sins of mankind and rising in 3 days? Allah didn’t come with a teaching that Jesus died for your sins and rose after 3 days, rather this teaching was made up by other people, such as the apostle Paul for example.

In fact there are people who believe that Jesus died on the cross, but they’re not Christians, they believes Jesus was on the cross, but doesn’t believe he was resurrected. So this shows one can believe in Jesus dying on the cross, without having to be a Christian. So simply believing that Jesus died on the cross does not necessitate Christianity.

If you were a believer of Jesus back in his day, and you thought he died on the cross, then you’d simply conclude that he was a martyr killed in God’s cause like many other prophets before him. So Allah wasn’t responsible at all for Christianity, but rather the ones who were responsible for Christianity were the ones who started coming afterwards saying Jesus rose from the dead and died for your sins. They were the ones responsible for Christianity for they took this event and started adding their own doctrinal theology around it.

The fact that there are people who believe in Jesus’ death, but are in fact not Christians, solidly proves our argument, and solidly refutes the weak and flimsy argument like this.

The only deceiver here was Paul and not Allah.

You contradict yourself with every following line

Firstly, You just quoted quran that said people were deceived to make it look like he died
These people whom Paul was never with at the time of the killing of Jesus
AND at the smae time said Paul is he deceiver.
Obviously, you blended false statements

Secondly, you said the gospels were not original by Matthew, Mark etc
Please provide the original with proof.
Speculations are not acceptable for such intellectual work.
Besides, some other Muslims agree that the gospels are the only credible word of God from the NT

Thirdly, you said Paul was the first to declare that Jesus was the Son of God.

Thats another big LIE.
Even the Romans who crucified Jesus received complaints of what the scribes called blasphemy and heresy, before they crucified Jesus.
The disciples at different times and even in different parts of Asia, proclaimed Jesus as the Son of God even before Paul started preaching.


Mehn, u blended too many false statements.
Apart from the quran u quoted, u made so many speculations u couldnt even back up with a single fact.

ilynem:

First I want to thank you for taking your time to reply. Now to our discussion. I noticed you tried to avoid the question and focus on the "falseness" of Christianity. And you blame this whole confusion on the apostle Paul. This is funny because this same apostle who was formally named Saul actually killed Christians as a Jew. This same Paul was present with the clothes of Stephen at his feet when Stephen was stoned to death. Except you are trying to tell me that the followers of Christ actually went around preaching Islam. That is more likely since you believe that only those who planned to kill Jesus we're actually deceived. So Jesus followers knew that he didn't die. And they went around preaching Islam. Right? Here comes the confusion. Why did they pray in the name of Jesus? If Jesus was just another prophet, what made their message different from that of Jews that actually persecuted them? In fact why did the Jews want to kill Jesus in the first place? And do you know Paul actually met Peter and James? Why didn't they tell him "oh Paul you are preaching the wrong message, Jesus didn't die and resurrect? ". Now you are telling me Christianity isn't based on death alone but death and resurrection and I whole heartedly agree with you. But for resurrection to take place, one has to die. But your Quoran is disputing the death not the resurrection. Are you now saying "oh he might have died but didn't resurrect? " when your Qouran tells you he wasn't killed? Let us settle the argument of death first then we go to ressurection. Final question! The four writers of the Gospel, never contradicted each other. If you think they did, then you don't know what a condradiction is. A contradiction is surah 9: 29 and surah 45:14. What you see in the Gospels is what is called an unintended eyewitness support statements. Two people do not see the same thing the same way and even when they do, they tell to reveal it in different ways. For instance if you read mark and compare it to the others you will see that mark actually contracted the events that happened in Jesus lifetime and that is understandable because he got his story from the followers of Jesus as he wasn't part the 12. On the other hand, none of the Gospels mentioned that Jesus took a spear by His side except John. And John didn't even mention nails, but the other three did. When you try to recount a story from four different people, these things are normal. What one leaves out the other fills in. And I know you will come up with "the followers of Jesus didn't write the Gospels, blah blah blah" and I want to tell you that there are hundreds of manuscripts written thousands of years about Jesus and these are even non Christian sources. This means we can reconstruct the entire new testament by using just non Christian sources. Do your research. And finally? Paul! Paul is one powerful false prophet that he single handedly destroyed everything Jesus came to establish and started his own. I just have to say "wow".

Hahahahahahahhahahaha. E dey sweet my bele.

Watch, that's the last you have seen of him.

Now, this is why Muslims hate Apst Paul. Paul the Gospel to Asia Minor. But for Paul Islam won't have met any Christianity in Asia. That angst them up.

Asia is of the devil. Satan claimed that continent for himself, it hurts him so much that Christ still snatches souls from there.

ilynem:

Writing isn't difficult. The most difficult part is starting. It might not a book, it might just be an article.

I have never written an article sir. But, i will think about it.
Thanks.

aminusanti:

Thats the best thing
U will end up wasting ur time bcus dat albagahdadi and annanuki2 are making pple dnt want to participate in any debate here on NL due to there behaviors nd they still faild to realize dat and it's really better to be ignoring them
Why waste ur time on something that they will ignorantly deny and add insult to it

Hear them, Screeching Ostriches. Answer the Op and stop the Screeching, it won't send us away.

Cowards, just like allah.

analice107:

I have never written an article sir. But, i will think about it.
Thanks.

It all starts one day. And you are welcome.

analice107:

Hahahahahahahhahahaha. E dey sweet my bele.

Watch, that's the last you have seen of him.

Now, this is why Muslims hate Apst Paul. Paul the Gospel to Asia Minor. But for Paul Islam won't have met any Christianity in Asia. That angst them up.

Asia is of the devil. Satan claimed that continent for himself, it hurts him so much that Christ still snatches souls from there.

So I'm not going to get a reply from him? have to take my question elsewhere then. Too bad.

ilynem:

So I'm not going to get a reply from him? have to take my question elsewhere then. Too bad.

No Muslim can answer that question, even their Allah cannot answer it so you will only be wasting your time if you ask other Muslims except you want them to irritate you with their al taquiya.

However the real benefit of asking such questions is that it serves to expose the lies, deceit and contradictions in Islam and it will help any right thinking Muslim to know that Islam is one big lie that is full of shitt.

annunaki2:


No Muslim can answer that question, even their Allah cannot answer it so you will only be wasting your time if you ask other Muslims except you want them to irritate you with their al taquiya.

However the real benefit of asking such questions is that it serves to expose the lies, deceit and contradictions in Islam and it will help any right thinking Muslim to know that Islam is one big lie that is full of shitt.

Such a pity.

ilynem:

So I'm not going to get a reply from him? have to take my question elsewhere then. Too bad.

Not with all you wrote there. That is hitting below the belt.

aminusanti

I laugh after reading ur thread and its title."Title" you are really ignorant about ur own religion, at least you should get to know the basic history of how christianity started and divided before coming up with such thread but d funniest part is your other fellow christians that are jumping, singing n dancing without even understanding what u posted..lol may God save you pple.It is clear in the Quran that Allah only deceived those who were plotting to kill Jesus. He did not deceive everyone...►Surah 4:157And [on account of] their saying:"We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, messenger of God." They did not kill him and they did not crucify him, butit was made to seem so to them. Those who argue about him are in doubt about it. They have no real knowledge of it, just conjecture. But they certainly did not kill him.The verse clearly says that those who claimed that they killed the Messiah were deceived. It didn't say everyone was deceived►

Very funny of you and Allah. You claim Allah only deceived the people who killed Yahshua by making them think they did. But below is Peter, a disciple of Yahshua, saying words that showed that he knew Yahshua was killed and also ressurected by God.

Acts 2:22-24

22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, d put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

Now, viewing the first question raised by the OP, we would say Peter lied that Yahshua was killed but later resurrected by YAHWEH. Do you know that Peter and the other disciples were killed because of that statement? Why would anyone decide to die defending a lie? These disciples were burnt alive and crucified for believing in that statement. If it was a lie, the moment the first person gets killed, the others will dump the belief if it was false. But no, they stood by it cos they know how true it is.

If, according to Allah, the disciples were just spreading falsehood, then Islam and Muslims have made Yahshua to look like a failure for chosing the wrong men as disciples who couldn't know that he was not killed. Perhaps, he chose liars as disciples. But liars can't die for their lie. This shows that Allah is the liar here.

Now understand ur religion history a litleThat event of crucifixion itself was not the beginning of Christianity. Decades after the event, it was Paul whose writings and letters became the cornerstone of Christianity. During Paul's lifetime and in the next three centuries, there were many different lines of thought concerning Jesus, and in the followers of Jesus.It wasn't until the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE that much of what the Christianity has believed was formalized as far as Catholics are concerned. The Council depended heavily on the letters and the writings of Paul, who appears to be the first to proclaim that Jesus was the son of God.

wrong. Before Paul, many had called him the son of the living God.
John 6:69
"And we believe and are sure that you are that Christ, the Son of the living God."

Mathew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."

John 11:27

"Yes, Lord," she replied, "I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world."

So to come back to your question, the witnesses to the Crucifixion were a handful of people; and I do not see anywhere in the Qur'an that they are "blamed". If they follow jesus teachingsIt is the subsequent development of theology based on Jesus being the son of God, who was crucified forthe sins of humanity, and that he is the savior of anyone who takes an oath that saying, "Jesus died for my sins and was raised up for my salvation". It isthat which the Qur'an rejects.

Yahshua himself spoke of his death and resurrection.

John 2:19
Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

In case you don't know that a temple is sometimes used to connote human body, Pls read the below verse.

1 Corinthians 6:19
Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself,

In the past, people kill animals like lamb to atone for their sins. When John the Baptist saw Yahshua coming, read what he said

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

If the lamb didn't get killed, there was no way it could take away sins.

The question assumes that all followers of Jesus including his apostles who saw him thought that Jesus was crucified, and that Christianity today is the same version of Christianity at that time and all the Christian sects believe in the crucifixion. Is it?The gospels are not reliable. The authors are not most likely Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, and they didn't see Jesus. The narrations have many contradictions in crucifixion and resurrection. On another level, Jesus never preached crucifixion according to the goapels. In fact, he prayed to God to"let the cup (of being killed) pass" three times in Mat 26.

Yes, he prayed to God to save him cos he knew how awful the death will be. Still yet he prayed that God's will should supersede. What was God's will if not for him to come and die so as to take away the sins of the world? It was because of that WILL that he had to ensure the horrible death.

to be continued...

aminusanti

Paul was the one who contributed in spreading the story of crucifixion to pagans and canceled the law. There were sects and people who disagreed with the teachings of Paul. Historically, we have no much information. However, surely they were not one entity.Let's assume all or some Christians were decieved and believed that Jesus was on the cross. No problem until now, but don't tell me they were deceived that the one who died was God and that thelaw is canceled because it is a curse and Jesus became a curse and that he is the second person in trinity!This argument is completely flawed, as well as deceptive. Anyone who knows a thing about Christianity knows that Christianity is not simply based on Jesus dying on the cross, but is also connected to the resurrection. The resurrection of Jesus is in fact the central tenant of Christianity and the most important part of the entire crucifixion account.The apostle Paul himself explicitly said that if Jesus did not rise from the dead, then Christianity is false, and the beliefs of Christians has all been in vain:"And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, andbecome the firstfruits of them that slept."--1 Corinthians. 15:17-20So Christianity is based on both, Jesus dying, and Jesus rising. It’s not simply based on Jesus dying, for example if you believed that Jesus died on the cross, but did not rise from the dead, then you are notan orthodox xtian, nor will you be considered a xtian. So therefore when u pple try to claim that Allah making it appear that Jesus died on the cross led to the birth of Christianity, is a blatant distortion because they themselves know that Christianity is not simply based on Jesus dying on the cross.At the end of the day, how does one jump from Jesusdying on the cross, to Jesus dying on the cross for the sins of mankind and rising in 3 days? Allah didn’t come with a teaching that Jesus died for your sins and rose after 3 days, rather this teaching was made up by other people, such as the apostle Paul for example.In fact there are people who believe that Jesus died on the cross, but they’re not Christians, they believes Jesus was on the cross, but doesn’t believe he was resurrected. So this shows one can believe in Jesus dying on the cross, without having to be a Christian. So simply believing that Jesus died on the cross does not necessitate Christianity.If you were a believer of Jesus back in his day, and you thought he died on the cross, then you’d simply conclude that he was a martyr killed in God’s cause like many other prophets before him. So Allah wasn’tresponsible at all for Christianity, but rather the ones who were responsible for Christianity were the ones who started coming afterwards saying Jesus rose from the dead and died for your sins. They were the ones responsible for Christianity for they took this event and started adding their own doctrinal theology around it.The fact that there are people who believe in Jesus’ death, but are in fact not Christians, solidly proves our argument, and solidly refutes the weak and flimsy argument like this.The only deceiver here was Paul and not Allah.

You just went on to contradict yourself.

Christianity is about believing that Christ died and resurrected to save us from our sins. Allah said he deceived those people by making them believe they killed Christ whereas it's someone else's they killed. How come the same Allah couldn't show the disciples of Yahshua this all important information that would have prevented the rise of Christianity but allowed them to be deceived too to the extent of getting killed for such believe?

The fact that Allah made those people to kill someone is enough reason to hold him responsible for the spread of Christianity, cos if NO ONE had been killed, we won't have those who believe Yahshua was crucified without ressurrecting and those who believe he was crucified and resurrected.

felixomor:


You contradict yourself with every following line

Firstly, You just quoted quran that said people were deceived to make it look like he died
These people whom Paul was never with at the time of the killing of Jesus
AND at the smae time said Paul is he deceiver.
Obviously, you blended false statements

Secondly, you said the gospels were not original by Matthew, Mark etc
Please provide the original with proof.
Speculations are not acceptable for such intellectual work.
Besides, some other Muslims agree that the gospels are the only credible word of God from the NT

Thirdly, you said Paul was the first to declare that Jesus was the Son of God.

Thats another big LIE.
Even the Romans who crucified Jesus received complaints of what the scribes called blasphemy and heresy, before they crucified Jesus.
The disciples at different times and even in different parts of Asia, proclaimed Jesus as the Son of God even before Paul started preaching.


Mehn, u blended too many false statements.
Apart from the quran u quoted, u made so many speculations u couldnt even back up with a single fact.

And he kept saying we do not have fact, since he and his company have no fact then why type all the gibberish? Is it that he's hands are itchy or what? This aminusanti sef

rhektor:



And he kept saying we do not have fact, since he and his company have no fact then why type all the gibberish? Is it that he's hands are itchy or what? This aminusanti sef

aminusanti has never had facts. All he does is spew the gibberish he swallowed from the madrasah and YouTube Imams without making a research of his own.

alBHAGDADI:
aminusanti has never had facts. All he does is spew the gibberish he swallowed from the madrasah and YouTube Imams without making a research of his own.

ok then stop quoting/ mentioning me from now on and lets see who curiosity ll kill
wondering how a grown human being wld be thinking n reasoning like animal
I really like the way most of the muslim here on NL r ignoring u pple

rhektor:



And he kept saying we do not have fact, since he and his company have no fact then why type all the gibberish? Is it that he's hands are itchy or what? This aminusanti sef

We? Another foolish man worshiper on it again
What fact did u present?

alBHAGDADI:



You just went on to contradict yourself.

Christianity is about believing that Christ died and resurrected to save us from our sins. Allah said he deceived those people by making them believe they killed Christ whereas it's someone else's they killed. How come the same Allah couldn't show the disciples of Yahshua this all important information that would have prevented the rise of Christianity but allowed them to be deceived too to the extent of getting killed for such believe?
The fact that Allah made those people to kill someone is enough reason to hold him responsible for the spread of Christianity, cos if NO ONE had been killed, we won't have those who believe Yahshua was crucified without ressurrecting and those who believe he was crucified and resurrected.

Asking the same nonsense again n againwhich I already explained to u in my prev post! Pls Is It a most that u should write something to prove ur stupidity?
go back and read my prev post well if u cant understand it ask some1 to read it for u

analice107:

Hear them, Screeching Ostriches. Answer the Op and stop the Screeching, it won't send us away.

Cowards, just like allah.

felixomor:


You contradict yourself with every following line

Firstly, You just quoted quran that said people were deceived to make it look like he died
These people whom Paul was never with at the time of the killing of Jesus
AND at the smae time said Paul is he deceiver.
Obviously, you blended false statements

Secondly, you said the gospels were not original by Matthew, Mark etc
Please provide the original with proof.
Speculations are not acceptable for such intellectual work.
Besides, some other Muslims agree that the gospels are the only credible word of God from the NT

Thirdly, you said Paul was the first to declare that Jesus was the Son of God.

Thats another big LIE.
Even the Romans who crucified Jesus received complaints of what the scribes called blasphemy and heresy, before they crucified Jesus.
The disciples at different times and even in different parts of Asia, proclaimed Jesus as the Son of God even before Paul started preaching.


Mehn, u blended too many false statements.
Apart from the quran u quoted, u made so many speculations u couldnt even back up with a single fact.

...

ilynem:

First I want to thank you for taking your time to reply. Now to our discussion. I noticed you tried to avoid the question and focus on the "falseness" of Christianity. And you blame this whole confusion on the apostle Paul. This is funny because this same apostle who was formally named Saul actually killed Christians as a Jew. This same Paul was present with the clothes of Stephen at his feet when Stephen was stoned to death. Except you are trying to tell me that the followers of Christ actually went around preaching Islam. That is more likely since you believe that only those who planned to kill Jesus we're actually deceived. So Jesus followers knew that he didn't die. And they went around preaching Islam. Right? Here comes the confusion. Why did they pray in the name of Jesus? If Jesus was just another prophet, what made their message different from that of Jews that actually persecuted them? In fact why did the Jews want to kill Jesus in the first place? And do you know Paul actually met Peter and James? Why didn't they tell him "oh Paul you are preaching the wrong message, Jesus didn't die and resurrect? ". Now you are telling me Christianity isn't based on death alone but death and resurrection and I whole heartedly agree with you. But for resurrection to take place, one has to die. But your Quoran is disputing the death not the resurrection. Are you now saying "oh he might have died but didn't resurrect? " when your Qouran tells you he wasn't killed? Let us settle the argument of death first then we go to ressurection. Final question! The four writers of the Gospel, never contradicted each other. If you think they did, then you don't know what a condradiction is. A contradiction is surah 9: 29 and surah 45:14. What you see in the Gospels is what is called an unintended eyewitness support statements. Two people do not see the same thing the same way and even when they do, they tell to reveal it in different ways. For instance if you read mark and compare it to the others you will see that mark actually contracted the events that happened in Jesus lifetime and that is understandable because he got his story from the followers of Jesus as he wasn't part the 12. On the other hand, none of the Gospels mentioned that Jesus took a spear by His side except John. And John didn't even mention nails, but the other three did. When you try to recount a story from four different people, these things are normal. What one leaves out the other fills in. And I know you will come up with "the followers of Jesus didn't write the Gospels, blah blah blah" and I want to tell you that there are hundreds of manuscripts written thousands of years about Jesus and these are even non Christian sources. This means we can reconstruct the entire new testament by using just non Christian sources. Do your research. And finally? Paul! Paul is one powerful false prophet that he single handedly destroyed everything Jesus came to establish and started his own. I just have to say "wow".

...

aminusanti:

...

U havent made any point

aminusanti:


If you were a believer of Jesus back in his day, and you thought he died on the cross, then you’d simply conclude that he was a martyr killed in God’s cause like many other prophets before him. So Allah wasn’t responsible at all for Christianity, but rather the ones who were responsible for Christianity were the ones who started coming afterwards saying Jesus rose from the dead and died for your sins. They were the ones responsible for Christianity for they took this event and started adding their own doctrinal theology around it.

The fact that there are people who believe in Jesus’ death, but are in fact not Christians, solidly proves our argument, and solidly refutes the weak and flimsy argument like this.

The only deceiver here was Paul and not Allah.

You are still boxing yourself in a tight corner. Let me explain something to you.

The wicked people who killed Yahshua had tried several times to do that but fail cos Yahshua escaped severally. READ below

John 10:39
ONCE AGAIN they tried to arrest him, but he got away and left them.

The reason they kept on coming back to seize him is simply because he kept on escaping their grip. Now, allah claims he whisked YAHSHUA away on the day Christians and some people believe he was killed. He said he used someone else as YAHSHUA whom those people killed thinking it was YAHSHUA.

The interesting part is that they never bothered about looking for him again cos they believed they finally killed him. That single action of allah is why we believed allah stupidly aided the rise of Christianity. If he had made those people see when he was making YAHSHUA escape like the previous times, they wont have gone ahead to kill someone else which began the belief that is called Christianity today. The killing of the someone else that allah said he replaced jesus with is what led to the rise of the largest religion in the world. So allah messed up by not making YAHSHUA escape like the previous times. That single act alone makes him responsible.

aminusanti:

Okay Muslim, you have a head full of ideas, Now, answer the Op.

LifestyleTonite:
You are still boxing yourself in a tight corner. Let me explain something to you.

The wicked people who killed Yahshua had tried several times to do that but fail cos Yahshua escaped severally. READ below

John 10:39
ONCE AGAIN they tried to arrest him, but he got away and left them.

The reason they kept on coming back to seize him is simply because he kept on escaping their grip. Now, allah claims he whisked YAHSHUA away on the day Christians and some people believe he was killed. He said he used someone else as YAHSHUA whom those people killed thinking it was YAHSHUA.

The interesting part is that they never bothered about looking for him again cos they believed they finally killed him. That single action of allah is why we believed allah stupidly aided the rise of Christianity. If he had made those people see when he was making YAHSHUA escape like the previous times, they wont have gone ahead to kill someone else which began the belief that is called Christianity today. The killing of the someone else that allah said he replaced jesus with is what led to the rise of the largest religion in the world. So allah messed up by not making YAHSHUA escape like the previous times. That single act alone makes him responsible.

I so love you.

felixomor:


You contradict yourself with every following line

felixomor
Contradiction indeed! Anything that goes against ur understand u lebel it as contradiction whether u understand it or not. Anyways read below lets see who contradicting himself here

Firstly, You just quoted quran that said people were deceived to make it look like he died

If you are still finding it hard to bliv jesus wasn't crucified lets do this:

¤ Quran said jesus did not died on the cross
¤ Bible said also jesus did not died on cross
¤ PAUL said jesus died on the cross

¤According to Quran

Surah 4, Verses 157 & 158:
Allah says in Qur'an that they neither killed him nor crucified him, but it was made to appear so unto them. In many places in Qur'an, it has been mentioned that Jews used to kill the prophets unjustly. But in the case of Jesus (pbuh) it vehemently denies that they killed him or that they crucified him. This is because Qur'an will not contain anything except truth.

¤According to Bible NT and OT
From the bible i will only provide you with few out of many proofs for easy reading
* No way would the verses below be valid if Christ got crucified.

Let us now take a look at Psalm 91:

(Please pay specially attention to Psalm 91:11-12, 15)
Psalm 91 and the ones with star

1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. [a]

2 I will say [b] of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust."

☆3 Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence.

☆4 He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.

☆5 You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day,

6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday.

7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you.

☆8 You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked.

☆10 No harm (this includes crucifixion!) or disaster will even come near Christ (Psalm 91:10....this even contradicts him getting beaten up before crucifixion).

☆11-12 GOD Almighty will send down the Angels to protect him and lift him (Psalm 91:11-12, 14, Isaiah 52:13). Not even his foot will strike the ground from his enemies pushing, grappling and punishment.

☆15 Christ's call will be HEARD, and he will be delivered and honored (Psalm 91:15, Isaiah 52:13). No way would these verses be valid if Christ got crucified.

☆His life will be prolonged (extended) and he will live to even see his offspring (Isaiah 53:10 and Psalm 91:16, which by the way contradict Jesus never got married and had children.

NOTE: Psalm 91 is speaking as a number of Prophecies that WILL take place. Notice how the verses are speak of future events that WILL TAKE PLACE. Never once throughout the entire New Testament were the Angels sent to save Jesus from striking his foot against a rock. This, again, clearly proves that the NT is indeed false and corrupt.


According to noble Quran and the original writing of the disciples of jesus, jesus wasn't crucified and he watched the crucifixion of the doomed person.

Also according to the Apocalypse of Peter that was discovered in egypt, jesus sat on the tree and watched the crucified one getting crucified. Peter witnessed this and wrote the Apocalypse read (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Apocalypse_of_peter
Again Gospel of Basilides is against jesus dead on the cross.

For Jesus to be dead on the cross it means yahweh is a liar/deceiver. If u chose to go with paul then those verses above are nothing but empty promises by Yahweh

Above verse are some of the proofs from OT and if you want i can provide you alot of proofs from NT as well that will contradict this ur crucifiction nonsense even more

These people whom Paul was never with at the time of the killing of Jesus
AND at the smae time said Paul is he deceiver.
Obviously, you blended false statements

Provide proofs for ur claims

Secondly, you said the gospels were not original by Matthew, Mark etc
Please provide the original with proof.
Speculations are not acceptable for such intellectual work.

No Original available but the last tastament (The Quran) is there to show you how ur 4fathers corrupted d scriptures.

Besides, some other Muslims agree that the gospels are the only credible word of God from the NT

Proof pls. A simple link would do

Thirdly, you said Paul was the first to declare that Jesus was the Son of God.

Nope u are lying here
What am refering to was the begotten Son of God

Thats another big LIE.
Even the Romans who crucified Jesus received complaints of what the scribes called blasphemy and heresy, before they crucified Jesus.
The disciples at different times and even in different parts of Asia, proclaimed Jesus as the Son of God even before Paul started preaching.

I doubt much if u really knw about jewish culture
Most of the prophets of God were also called Sons of God b4 jesus, if in that case i have no issue with that

Mehn, u blended too many false statements.
Apart from the quran u quoted, u made so many speculations u couldnt even back up with a single fact.

u don't know whats facts from all indication and what fact did u raise from all the rubbish u typed here ?

Did the Disciples of Jesus really die for the trinity and/or crucifixion lie?

aminusanti:

felixomor
Contradiction indeed! Anything that goes against ur understand u lebel it as contradiction whether u understand it or not. Anyways read below lets see who contradicting himself here



If you are still finding it hard to bliv jesus wasn't crucified lets do this:

¤ Quran said jesus did not died on the cross
¤ Bible said also jesus did not died on cross
¤ PAUL said jesus died on the cross

¤According to Quran

Surah 4, Verses 157 & 158:
Allah says in Qur'an that they neither killed him nor crucified him, but it was made to appear so unto them. In many places in Qur'an, it has been mentioned that Jews used to kill the prophets unjustly. But in the case of Jesus (pbuh) it vehemently denies that they killed him or that they crucified him. This is because Qur'an will not contain anything except truth.

¤According to Bible NT and OT
From the bible i will only provide you with few out of many proofs for easy reading
* No way would the verses below be valid if Christ got crucified.

Let us now take a look at Psalm 91:

(Please pay specially attention to Psalm 91:11-12, 15)
Psalm 91 and the ones with star

1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. [a]

2 I will say [b] of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust."

☆3 Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence.

☆4 He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.

☆5 You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day,

6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday.

7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you.

☆8 You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked.

☆10 No harm (this includes crucifixion!) or disaster will even come near Christ (Psalm 91:10....this even contradicts him getting beaten up before crucifixion).

☆11-12 GOD Almighty will send down the Angels to protect him and lift him (Psalm 91:11-12, 14, Isaiah 52:13). Not even his foot will strike the ground from his enemies pushing, grappling and punishment.

☆15 Christ's call will be HEARD, and he will be delivered and honored (Psalm 91:15, Isaiah 52:13). No way would these verses be valid if Christ got crucified.

☆His life will be prolonged (extended) and he will live to even see his offspring (Isaiah 53:10 and Psalm 91:16, which by the way contradict Jesus never got married and had children.

NOTE: Psalm 91 is speaking as a number of Prophecies that WILL take place. Notice how the verses are speak of future events that WILL TAKE PLACE. Never once throughout the entire New Testament were the Angels sent to save Jesus from striking his foot against a rock. This, again, clearly proves that the NT is indeed false and corrupt.

This guy is one funny dude. Never have i seen someone quote verses out of context like the way he did.

Who told you those verses were talking about Christ? He was the one making those promises to faithful humans, not himself. How can the one who commands and protects the angels now depend on angels to protect him from falling? That particular verse was what satan used to tempt YAHSHUA hoping he will fall. But YAHSHUA told him not to tempt the lord his GOD. aLL THOSE VERSES WERE SIMPLY yahshua PROMISING humans and not him being promised.

Pls dont just go about copying and pasting out of context. Study for yourself.

aminusanti:

felixomor
Contradiction indeed! Anything that goes against ur understand u lebel it as contradiction whether u understand it or not. Anyways read below lets see who contradicting himself here



If you are still finding it hard to bliv jesus wasn't crucified lets do this:

¤ Quran said jesus did not died on the cross
¤ Bible said also jesus did not died on cross
¤ PAUL said jesus died on the cross

¤According to Quran

Surah 4, Verses 157 & 158:
Allah says in Qur'an that they neither killed him nor crucified him, but it was made to appear so unto them. In many places in Qur'an, it has been mentioned that Jews used to kill the prophets unjustly. But in the case of Jesus (pbuh) it vehemently denies that they killed him or that they crucified him. This is because Qur'an will not contain anything except truth.

¤According to Bible NT and OT
From the bible i will only provide you with few out of many proofs for easy reading
* No way would the verses below be valid if Christ got crucified.

Let us now take a look at Psalm 91:

(Please pay specially attention to Psalm 91:11-12, 15)
Psalm 91 and the ones with star

1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. [a]

2 I will say [b] of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust."

☆3 Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence.

☆4 He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.

☆5 You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day,

6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday.

7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you.

☆8 You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked.

☆10 No harm (this includes crucifixion!) or disaster will even come near Christ (Psalm 91:10....this even contradicts him getting beaten up before crucifixion).

☆11-12 GOD Almighty will send down the Angels to protect him and lift him (Psalm 91:11-12, 14, Isaiah 52:13). Not even his foot will strike the ground from his enemies pushing, grappling and punishment.

☆15 Christ's call will be HEARD, and he will be delivered and honored (Psalm 91:15, Isaiah 52:13). No way would these verses be valid if Christ got crucified.

☆His life will be prolonged (extended) and he will live to even see his offspring (Isaiah 53:10 and Psalm 91:16, which by the way contradict Jesus never got married and had children.

NOTE: Psalm 91 is speaking as a number of Prophecies that WILL take place. Notice how the verses are speak of future events that WILL TAKE PLACE. Never once throughout the entire New Testament were the Angels sent to save Jesus from striking his foot against a rock. This, again, clearly proves that the NT is indeed false and corrupt.


According to noble Quran and the original writing of the disciples of jesus, jesus wasn't crucified and he watched the crucifixion of the doomed person.

Also according to the Apocalypse of Peter that was discovered in egypt, jesus sat on the tree and watched the crucified one getting crucified. Peter witnessed this and wrote the Apocalypse read (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Apocalypse_of_peter
Again Gospel of Basilides is against jesus dead on the cross.

For Jesus to be dead on the cross it means yahweh is a liar/deceiver. If u chose to go with paul then those verses above are nothing but empty promises by Yahweh

Above verse are some of the proofs from OT and if you want i can provide you alot of proofs from NT as well that will contradict this ur crucifiction nonsense even more

Provide proofs for ur claims

No Original available but the last tastament (The Quran) is there to show you how ur 4fathers corrupted d scriptures.

Proof pls. A simple link would do


Nope u are lying here
What am refering to was the begotten Son of God


I doubt much if u really knw about jewish culture
Most of the prophets of God were also called Sons of God b4 jesus, if in that case i have no issue with that


u don't know whats facts from all indication and what fact did u raise from all the rubbish u typed here ?

Did the Disciples of Jesus really die for the trinity and/or crucifixion lie?

Why do u keep thinking that when u write plenty stuff, then u make sense?

Quran said Jesus did not die,
Allah deceived them to make it look like He did....

Abi?
And that is what the Op said,
U are yet to rebutt that claim.

And now you quoted apocalypse of Peter,
Please do you believe in that book?
If you believe it, then letz discuss

But if u cant allow us to discuss that book, then what u have posted here is rubbish.

Choose one

aminusanti:


According to noble Quran and the original writing of the disciples of jesus, jesus wasn't crucified and he watched the crucifixion of the doomed person.

Rather, according to the lying and plagiarist quran that came 500 yrs after the bible was already in circulation. OK, PLS WHERE ARE THE ORIGINAL writings of the disciples? The Quran needs to provide that or it will forever be seen as a LIAR.

Allah also needs to be judged for dooming an innocent fellow instead of christ.

aminusanti:

Also according to the Apocalypse of Peter that was discovered in egypt, jesus sat on the tree and watched the crucified one getting crucified. Peter witnessed this and wrote the Apocalypse read (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Apocalypse_of_peter
Again Gospel of Basilides is against jesus dead on the cross.

Which apocalypse? Who told you thats a true book not written by a lying islamist?

aminusanti:

For Jesus to be dead on the cross it means yahweh is a liar/deceiver. If u chose to go with paul then those verses above are nothing but empty promises by Yahweh

i already showed you how those verses were YAHSHUA himself making those promises to mankind and not those promises being made to him.

Above verse are some of the proofs from OT and if you want i can provide you alot of proofs from NT as well that will contradict this ur crucifiction nonsense even more[/quote]

aminusanti:


Provide proofs for ur claims

No Original available but the last tastament (The Quran) is there to show you how ur 4fathers corrupted d scriptures.

A book that inspires terrorist, rapist and liars is what you call the last testament?

LifestyleTonite:
This guy is one funny dude. Never have i seen someone quote verses out of context like the way he did.

Who told you those verses were talking about Christ? He was the one making those promises to faithful humans, not himself. How can the one who commands and protects the angels now depend on angels to protect him from falling? That particular verse was what satan used to tempt YAHSHUA hoping he will fall. But YAHSHUA told him not to tempt the lord his GOD. aLL THOSE VERSES WERE SIMPLY yahshua PROMISING humans and not him being promised.

Pls dont just go about copying and pasting out of context. Study for yourself.

what a shame! just look at how you are beating around the bush of something thats straight forward and u are here talking nonsense..keep dribbling around

Luke 4:10-12
10 For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect and guard you.
11 And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
12 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”

Matthew 4:5-10
*5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, Jerusalem, to the highest point of the Temple,
*6 and said, “If you are the Son of God, jump off! For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect you. And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
*7 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”
*8 Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
*9 “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”
*10 “Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say, ‘You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’”

There are few points to notice in these verses:

1- Notice how satan referred to Psalm 91 regarding the protection of Jesus.

2- Notice how Jesus confirmed that Psalm 91 was indeed speaking about him by saying "the Scriptures also say..." (Luke 4:12 and Matthew 4:7).

aminusanti:


what a shame! just look at how you are beating around the bush of something thats straight forward and u are here talking nonsense..keep dribbling around

Luke 4:10-12
10 For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect and guard you.
11 And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
12 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”

Matthew 4:5-10
*5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, Jerusalem, to the highest point of the Temple,
*6 and said, “If you are the Son of God, jump off! For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect you. And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
*7 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”
*8 Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
*9 “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”
*10 “Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say, ‘You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’”

There are few points to notice in these verses:

1- Notice how satan referred to Psalm 91 regarding the protection of Jesus.

2- Notice how Jesus confirmed that Psalm 91 was indeed speaking about him by saying "the Scriptures also say..." (Luke 4:12 and Matthew 4:7).

3- As we will see in the sections below, Psalm 91 is not just concerned with preventing Christ or the Messiah from striking his feet against the ground. This is the least point the chapter is concerned with. The chapter concentrated heavily on:

Guy, stop quoting psalms because if i bring u something from there now, u will change your mouth again...

felixomor:


Guy, stop quoting psalms because if i bring u something from there now, u will change your mouth again...

go ahead pls. i noticed you only talk but can't contribute a sh*t
abeg gerrout

aminusanti:

go ahead pls. i noticed you only talk but can't contribute a sh*t
abeg gerrout

Allah deceived people, to believe death of Jesus

Yes or No?
Stop dancing yo-yo