ezeagu:



Lower Niger Valley is general southern Nigeria.

Benin/Togo showing up in Igbo results means it's an ancestral marker that's similar between the two, this would mean that the B/T pop. would have had to either split and influenced the Igbo pop. or there was a more recent influence of B/T in the Igbo population which historical there isn't much in terms of contract with the Yoruba talk less of Fon people and if there was whether now or in ancient times then there's no way there wouldn't be a backwash into the B/T area. The fact that the Urhobo/Yoruba girls is coming up with high Nig. is also suspicious. Also Ivory Coast/Ghana shows up as a little or significant in many Igbo results while Senegal comes up in Yoruba.

This isn't even considering the fact the Sierra Leone and Liberia are not tested.

YonkijiSappo:


Yes it is a Gbe marker. All of the Southern half of Benin, Togo, Badagry Area (Lagos West) and Ghana's volta region is originally ancestrally settled by Gbe speaking Groups of Africans, except parts of Eastern and Central Benin that Have Yoruba speaking groups, which I guess are also very much mixed with the Gbe speaking people. Yorubas cover a very large geographical range, hence they will show a similarly wide range of results. I can't imagine an Ilaje man that have had hundreds of years of contact with Urhobos, and Ijaws having the same result as someone from Atakpame that have mixed with Gbe speakers and even some Gur speakers like Akpossos and Kotokolis.
There are Mande and Gur in Benin and Togo like you said, but they are the Northern groups there.
These DNA categories have to be named something, and I guess they chose Benin-Togo aand other such country names because that is what most people can connect with in today's world. They could have as well named it "Dahomean" or "Oueme river valley" or "Gbe Ancestry". But the main point is that we know which people the ancestry is reflective of. Most Gur for example are majorly a mix of Mali and either Benin-Togo or Ivory coast-Ghana with smaller trace regions.

9jakool:

Benin-Togo having high frequency in Nigeria is not a result of intermixing, because if that was the case it would be consistent and still be occurring till today and all the cultures in the region would be very very similar. But that's not the case. There are over a dozen language branches and hundreds of distinct ethnic groups in the region.

A better theory is that since most of the languages and cultures in West Africa had a common ancestor, it's not too strange to see that overlap. The overlap in DNA, would be of the shared origin, rather than the exchange of DNA through intermixing. It's important to raise suspicion and question the test's accuracy. Ancestry DNA also have the disclaimer that they are aware that their DNA testing isn't always going to be accurate which is why they give ranges as well. They also update their data frequently which may cause in one's percentages to fluctuate.

I found this Liberian man who got an overwhelmingly high "Ghana/Ivory Coast" percentage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnZraslnNK8

It's interesting because I found an Igbo man with a very high "Nigeria" marker. In the second video, he tested his maternal ethnicity, only to be told he was Hausa, Fulani and Tikar. Lol This is why I think it's good to question the accuracy of some of these geneology companies. Geneology has lead the way in the 21st century, but there is still a lot of room for improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6aXVjTGsdc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_dAfxRy6no&list=PLm2A_Jdbg98ipInq4VHsTAwORd0OWgF87

ezeagu:


That was my argument, although the original comment was pertaining to the groupings of the ancestral populations and how the company could easily make a eastern Nigeria or Bight of Biafra category by finding strong common ancestral markers and attributing those markers to the eastern Nigeria area. This way you would have an Igbo person presumably scoring high Bight of Biafra ancestry, over 80%, like Fon people have high Benin/Togo.

If go back in the thread you will see I posted that Igbo AA result.

ezeagu:


That was my argument, although the original comment was pertaining to the groupings of the ancestral populations and how the company could easily make a eastern Nigeria or Bight of Biafra category by finding strong common ancestral markers and attributing those markers to the eastern Nigeria area. This way you would have an Igbo person presumably scoring high Bight of Biafra ancestry, over 80%, like Fon people have high Benin/Togo.

If go back in the thread you will see I posted that Igbo AA result.

9jakool:


That would mean that Gur speakers would be half Mali and half Akan or Gbe which I don't by. Most West Africans look alike, so the admixture is not that strange. Regardless, the admixture is archaic for groups in Eastern Nigeria to still have traces of Benin/Togo.

YonkijiSappo:


Gur is just a language group that don't have their own unique markers. Theya re also very widely spread.

Look at the location of Gur language speakers below



Like i said they are a combination of the Mali ancestral region and the Ghana-Ivory Coast or Benin-Togo region in terms of ancestry.
Why don't you buy it? All people are a mx of more than one region, just that degree of admixtures vary from some showing 80-90% for one region (like Congolese or Beninese people), and others being more admixed with neighboring distinct zones (Like Nigerians).

9jakool:

Linguistic evidence would suggest that Gur, like any other West African language branch evolved independently, so why would Gur be mixed from already existing Malian and Ghana/Ivory Coast group or Togo/Benin group.

The Gur family was previously called Voltaic. It was once considered to be more extensive than it is often regarded today, including the Senufo languages and a number of small language isolates. The membership of Senufo was rejected for example by Tony Naden. Williamson and Blench. Place Senufo as a separate branch of Atlantic–Congo and other non-Central Gur languages somewhat closer as separate branches of the Savanna languages. The closest relatives of Gur appear to be the Adamawa family

YonkijiSappo:


Not really.
The Origins, Range and even members of the Gur languages are quite unclear, however some languages fit in more than others.



One mistake you are making is thinking all people who are grouped together as belonging to the same language group must all share the same DNA marker, that is not right. People only develop a unique marker after settling down in an area for Hundreds upon hundreds of years and intermarrying closely within that population. Over time they become unique and will be able to show markers that can strongly be associated with that particular population.
The classification of the Gurs show that they belong to the Voltaic-Adamawa-Ubangui languages which is quite wide ranging/extensive.
Not all groups have had enough time to develop in relative isolation to bear their own markers.

YonkijiSappo:


But there is nothing like "Bight of Biafra ancestry"
Cameroonians are usually quite different from those in Eastern Nigeria, when it comes to DNA.
I once saw the result of one Cameroonian person that had an Igbo grandparent, and his DNA was still atypical.

Like I said before, Nigerians are usually the ones with split DNA. Read what Ancestry DNA says about Nigerians. They are the Africans with the least predictability compared to Senegambians, Mali region, Ghana/CV, Cameroon-Congo, SE bantu regions.
Nigeria is a country at crossroads between West and Center. Look at Nigeria's location very well on a map.

Hence, together with the Aboriginal Nigerian elements, we usuallly combine Benin-Togo and Cameroon-Congo with our DNA sequences.

Look at the result of this Igbo person below.



Nigerian 77%
Benin/Togo 13%
Cameron / Congo 5%
Ivory Coast / Ghana 4%
Mali 1%

9jakool:


Yes I completely understand, but I think it's wrong to claim that a specific marker is exclusively tied to one ethnic group. There was a Liberian who got 91% Ghana/Ivory Coast, but that doesn't make him Akan, even though many Akan also score high in the area. It is possible that the ethnic groups in that area share similar ancient ancestry, and have not develop a unique marker. It would be wrong to claim that the reason why a Kru person could have that high of a percentage of Ghana/Ivory Coast, is because of the intermixing with Akan. It could have been that that both used to bee one group that separated a long time ago.

ezeagu:


The thing is I don't agree with the idea that Cameroon/Congo are a homogenous group, Ivory Coast/Ghana are same, and Benin/Togo are homogenous, and then Nigeria across the board is just a mixture of these groups. There's no history to suggest that and it's very random anyway and doesn't show any clear migration pattern (especially Ivory Coast/Ghana showing up higher in Igbo results), so it's probably just a reflection of how the sampled populations were grouped. As has been already posted, African Ancestry matched an Igbo persons maternal DNA to the Tikar and Fulani in Cameroon.

When describing their 9 African AncestryDNA regions Ancestry.com mentions explicitly that because of widespread shared ancestry regionally speaking, a “typical native” from any of these regions will usually also get a breakdown into several AncestryDNA regions and not fit 100% in their national region.

Like Mali this region is also described by Ancestry.com as being one of the most admixed. If you look closely at the last screenshot (fig. 3.4) shown above, it seems the Nigerian samples also have the widest ranging variation, some scoring convincingly high amounts of “Nigeria” and others much lower. Not really surprising given that Nigeria has the biggest and most diverse population in Africa. Too much genetic variety. Any actual Nigerian person might typically also carry ancestral markers from neighbouring countries, like Benin and Cameroon. I’ve seen the results of 15 Nigerians so far and all of them show great variation including those belonging to the same ethnic groups.

ezeagu:


The thing is I don't agree with the idea that Cameroon/Congo are a homogenous group, Ivory Coast/Ghana are same, and Benin/Togo are homogenous, and then Nigeria across the board is just a mixture of these groups. There's no history to suggest that and it's very random anyway and doesn't show any clear migration pattern (especially Ivory Coast/Ghana showing up higher in Igbo results), so it's probably just a reflection of how the sampled populations were grouped. As has been already posted, African Ancestry matched an Igbo persons maternal DNA to the Tikar and Fulani in Cameroon.

YonkijiSappo:


Sir, that is exactly the case. They don't just pull these things out of their asses.

Ancestry DNA says:





You can question their techniques quite alright, but there is some truth to their methods.
Note the Congo here is not the Big DRC Congo but the smaller Congo ROC closer to Cameroon.
So, why according to you should an Ivorian and ghanaian be similar, but a Cameroonian and their closer Bantu neighbor in ROC probably sharing same ancestral and tribal groupings not be?

ezeagu:


"DON’T take the labeling of the AncestryDNA regions with country names too literally. Ancestry.com mentions themselves how their “regions” (perhaps more properly termed ancestral/genetic components) might be named after specific countries but in fact they are found in neighbouring countries as well. Plus some of the regions will have a higher “prediction accuracy” than others based on how Ancesty’s own samples (“typical native”) score when they get tested (i will post the screenshots on the bottom of this page for those who don’t have access). Therefore I don’t think we should get caught up too much in how these regions are named. It’s just proven to be very difficult to come up with 100% appropriate labels, this goes for any DNA testing company sofar btw."

YonkijiSappo:


Isn't this exactly what I am saying?
That the identifications go beyond national borders, BUT are more concentrates within certain regions/Ethnic groupings which inherently points to their origin.

benin/Togo peaks among GBE people and radiates into Nigeria. Cameroon-Congo peaks in Bamoun/Tikar/Fang Etc and radiates into Nigeria.
Nigeria peaks (with a lower %) with certain groups in Nigeria and also shows up among some Beninese, Ghanaians and Cameroonians.

YonkijiSappo:

The same thing you are saying about Ghanaian showing up in Igbo Results as not being plausible and just "random" could also be said by an Ashanti from Kumasi, showing like 10% Nigerian in her results, when her entire generation can't even remember ever being in contact with any Nigerian group of people.
It is ancient African Ancestries that simply peak in particular places.

YonkijiSappo:
Ghanaian's results. (AKAN)

89% GHANA-CV
10% NIGERIA



Cameroonian's result's. (BAMILEKE)

84% CAMEROON-CONGO
11% NIGERIA
2% GHANA-CV
2% BENIN-TOGO





Look at the various Nigerian tribes here.

[img]http://tracingafricanroots.files./2016/08/naija-ethnic-diversity.jpg?w=869[/img]

None of them have anything to do with Nigerian people. They show a dominance of their actual regions and an additional component from a neighboring country that they share ancient ancestries with
CASE CLOSED.

ezeagu:


Now explain how the Ghanaian woman's Nigeria ancestry flew over Benin/Togo.

ezeagu:
From Ancestry DNA

"What is a reference panel and why do we need one?

The sample size is very small.

YourNemesis:
Bight of Benin. (Togo, Benin, Nigeria West of the Niger Delta)
Ethnic groups (Yoruba, Fon, Mahi, Ewe, Nupe)
20.2%

Bight of Biafra. (Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Sao Tome, Cameroon, Nigeria East of the Niger Delta)
Ethnic groups (Igbo, Moko, Ibibio, Chamba, Ijaw, Fang, Carabali Etc)
14.6%



While Bight of Biafra slaves were more prominent in the Anglophone Atlantic world/ British ex colonies such as The US except some part of the US South where Bight of Benin slaves were more, Barbados Etc, Bight of Benin slaves were prominent in South America and parts of the Caribbean.
There are exceptions though.


All in all, more slaves were transported from the Bight of Benin than the Bight of Biafra Also worthy of note is the fact that the Yorubas Arguably constituted a greater percentage of slaves transported from the Bight of Benin (Some figures places it at +/- 85%) than Igbos constituted of slaves from the bight of Biafra.


Another layer of Bight of Benin, and especially Yoruba slaves that are almost always not accounted for by these port of transport and landing port records is the wave of indentured servants of the mid to late 1800's which added a new layer of Yoruba slaves to Caribbean and South American countries.
You wouldn't see them in any slave records.



In the end, there is nothing to be proud or happy about in the heinous and atrocious activities of slavery , which had devastating effects on African peoples still being felt up till NOW. But for the sake of knowledge, it would make sense to sed more light on these things.

More to come.

Despite Domingos’s specific claim that he was from Nangoˆ/Nangon, the majority
of people whom he encountered in the Atlantic world saw him in much broader
terms. Nearly every person who testified before the Inquisition in Brazil claimed
simply that he was from the “Mina nation.” Slaveholders generally delineated the
“Costa da Mina” as a region that includes present-day Ghana, Togo, and Benin,
although after 1721, the vast majority of slaves bound for Brazil passed through the
Portuguese fort at Ouidah (Benin). During the first three decades of the eighteenth
century, these so-called Minas easily constituted the largest group of enslaved Africans
arriving in Brazil. In Pernambuco alone, nearly 35,000 Minas arrived between
1722 and 1732, representing 84 percent of slave imports during the period.28 Re-
flecting the dominant mixture of Ewe, and especially Fon, elements in the slave
population, a lingua franca known as the lingua geral de Mina emerged in Brazil. This
Mina language was so prevalent that in 1741, a Portuguese settler in the interior
mining regions published a Portuguese/Mina word list and conversation manual.29
The emergence of a coherent Mina nation in Brazil is perhaps best exemplified in
Catholic brotherhoods such as Santo Elesba˜o e Santa Efigeˆnia, founded by a congregation
of “black Minas” in Rio de Janeiro in the 1740s. Here, “Minas” from
various areas of “provenance”—Savalus, Agonlis, Mahis, and Dahomeys—came together
to form one broadly conceived sociocultural unit.30
Although a certain uniformity emerged in the Mina nation of Brazil by the 1740s,
it was the culmination of a complicated process of group formation that had unfolded
during the late 1720s and 1730s. Between 1725 and 1727, slave traders delivered more than 4,800 slaves from the Mina coast to Pernambuco every year. The trade
dropped precipitously over the next five years, averaging barely 2,300 per year.31 This
rapid decline is attributable primarily to changing conditions in the Bight of Benin,
where exports decreased after Dahomey conquered Ouidah in 1727. For the brief
period between 1728 and 1732, Jakin replaced Ouidah as the major slave export
center of the region.32 On the Brazilian side of the trade, political changes in Africa
resulted in a more heterogeneous group of Mina slaves. Among those who would
have gradually entered Brazil were slaves from regions north and east of Dahomey,
later defined as “Mahi” and “Nagoˆ.”...
Even though the Benin trade declined
from 1728 to 1732, Mina slaves still represented 86 percent of arrivals into Pernambuco.38
On numerical grounds alone, Benin seems the most likely source for
Cobuˆ. Furthermore, the linguist Yeda Pessoa de Castro has suggested that “Cobuˆ”
derives from a Fon description of the people in the Agonli-Cove´ region of Benin.39
During the late 1720s and early 1730s, Agonli-Cove´ was squeezed between the militaries
of two competing empires, O` yo´ to its northeast and Dahomey to its southwest.
Beginning in 1728 and continuing for three years straight, O` yo´ marched on Dahomey
every dry season in an attempt to overthrow the Dahomean king, Agaja. Agaja retaliated
by sending his army to the region, remaining there from May 1731 until
March 1732. During these raids, many villages were destroyed. Survivors were enslaved
or became refugees, fleeing farther northward. Eventually these diverse
groups of refugees came together to form a new kingdom known as I`da´ı`sa`.40.

https://oup.silverchair-cdn.com/oup/backfile/Content_public/Journal/ahr/114/2/10.1086/ahr.114.2.279/2/114-2-279.pdf?Expires=1495385380&Signature=LdPZiDkwNC~cCfWpGmClKmlT-OugmYEb5-PfRv6wHi7fZN0lzNmcZhgKJTAhHrsHTaBPD-wCeNSup3KFkDcA-r42TPkJitLENJ0wVgti5~PgQMmojvpSLZtUdCBG8X~heA~X99sEByzfU~4-bj5ua2cD~gwxIp83vWx70RVPSAndjFQCND~sktER9h2CtOandXz84oDUSgdhsWwPKL9XHT9k0XLiLdjpwBW0JP8h7NjTYf8WsWn0KC6xUvkFXilDubMO5aLAUlqxIRsARZAqviOABOREKwSGcab-0VwXZhmFjtlEdnQ1MGdVyH4-sI0QHAlX7cvmkdSen8X~f4T6sw__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIUCZBIA4LVPAVW3Q