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Cousin Marriage in Islam - Islam for Muslims (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Rilwayne001: 9:59pm On Feb 18, 2017
FriendChoice:


is Olorun same as the Islamic Allah or another god in Yoruba land?

Olorun has always been the Yoruba word for God even before Islam spread down here. So whenever you hear a yoruba saying Olorun he's referring to no other person but Allah.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by tintingz(m): 10:01pm On Feb 18, 2017
Rilwayne001:


Olorun is the Yoruba word for God undecided undecided
The thing is that Yoruba Muslims and Chriatians mistook Olorun as Allah or Yahweh, something like hijacking the name., this was caused by Bishop Ajayi Crowder.

Eshu is not even an evil character like Satan/shaitan.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Nobody: 10:06pm On Feb 18, 2017
Rilwayne001:


Olorun has always been the Yoruba word for God even before Islam spread down here. So whenever you hear a yoruba saying Olorun he's referring to no other person but Allah.

I understand now. But the guy purposely in his previous comment try to kinda differentiate the two.

1 Like

Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by tintingz(m): 10:06pm On Feb 18, 2017
FriendChoice:


is Olorun same as the Islamic Allah or another god in Yoruba land?
To Yoruba Muslims Olorun is the same as Allah but in Yoruba religion Olorun is not the same as Allah or Yahweh.

Olorun has been worshipped by our forefathers before the Arabs and missionaries brought Islam and Christianity.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Nobody: 10:08pm On Feb 18, 2017
tintingz:
To Yoruba Muslims Olorun is the same as Allah but in Yoruba religion Olorun is not the same as Allah or Yahweh.

Olorun has been worshipped by our forefathers before the Arabs and missionaries brought Islam and Christianity.



OK.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Rilwayne001: 10:22pm On Feb 18, 2017
tintingz:
The thing is that Yoruba Muslims and Chriatians mistook Olorun as Allah or Yahweh, something like hijacking the name., this was caused by Bishop Ajayi Crowder.


I don't think the underlined is the case here, i would have agreed if it was "olodumare" — that one was totally mistook. Olorun on the other hand fits in, or what other Yoruba word fits the name of God.

Eshu is not even an evil character like Satan/shaitan.

I really don't know much about eshu, but i think he was an evil character in the yoruba myth sef, if no, kindly enlighten me.

1 Like

Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by tintingz(m): 11:48pm On Feb 18, 2017
Rilwayne001:


I don't think the underlined is the case here, i would have agreed if it was "olodumare" — that one was totally mistook. Olorun on the other hand fits in, or what other Yoruba word fits the name of God.
Ajayi crowder started using Olorun has God when he translated bible to Yoruba. Olorun is actually a Yoruba diety worshiped by yorubas just like Zeus, Odin, Brahma, Ukunlunku, Nuwa etc in other countries.

The Supreme God in Yoruba religion has three manifestation which is Eledumare, Olorun and Olofi, and you can use any of the manifestation as God name as they are the same, Just like Christians Trinity God head.

Read:

Olorun (Yoruba: Ọlọrun or Ọlọhun) literally, especially, Ọlọrun means The Ruler of (or in) the Heaven i.e. Oni Orún - the Ruler of (or in) the Heaven. In Yoruba Mythology Ọlọrun is said to be the name given by the Oracles to one of the three manifestations of the Supreme God in the Yoruba pantheon. Olorun is the owner of the heavens and as associated with the Sun. The vital energy of Olorun manifests in humans as Ashé, which is the life force that runs through all living things.[1] In Africa, Akamara is believed to be the Source of all Existence. Olodumare carries the responsibility of coordinating the Universe, while Olofi is identified with Olofin Oduduwa (a different entity but born of Akamara) who brings existence to earth on orders from Olodumare.

The Supreme God has three manifestations: Eledumare, the Creator; Olorun, ruler of the heavens; and Olofi, who is the conduit between Orún (Heaven) and Ayé (Earth).

Among the Yoruba Muslims and Christians, the word Ọlọhun i.e. Oni Ohún is, instead, commonly used to denote their faith in God as The Almighty Divine, The Absolute Sovereign.[/b]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olorun

You can see Olorun characteristics is different to that of Allah, Ajayi crowder find it fit it with the biblical God(Yahweh the Jewish God).

I really don't know much about eshu, but i think he was an evil character in the yoruba myth sef, if no, kindly enlighten me.
Eshu is an orisha a trickster, Ajayi crowder used Eshu as satan because of the similarity in character but Eshu is not all about evil or the devil, Eshu is like a god of justice and balance, god of good and bad(yin-yang force in China).

Eshu also spelled Eschu, also called Elegba, trickster god of the Yoruba of Nigeria, an essentially protective, benevolent spirit who serves Ifa, the chief god, as a messenger between heaven and earth. Eshu requires constant appeasement in order to carry out his assigned functions of conveying sacrifices and divining the future. One myth depicts Eshu as tricking Ifa out of the secrets of divination; another, in which Eshu restores Ifa from his imprisonment in a palm tree, casts him as the founder of the Ifa religion.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Eshu

Eshu (known as Echú or Exú in Latin America and Esu in Nigeria) is an Orisha in the Yoruba religion of the Yoruba people (originating from Yorubaland, an area in and around present-day Nigeria). As the religion has spread around the world, the name of this Orisha has varied in different locations, but the beliefs remain similar.[1]

Eshu partially serves as an alternate name for Eleggua, the messenger for all Orishas, and that there are 256 paths to Eleggua — each one of which is an Eshu. It is believed that Eshu is an Orisha similar to Elugga, but there are only 101 paths to Eshu according to ocha, rather than the 256 paths to Eleggua according to Ifá.[2] Eshu is known as the "Father who gave birth to Ogboni", and is also thought to be agile and always willing to rise to a challenge.[3]

Both ocha and Ifá share some paths, however. Eshu Ayé is said to work closely with Orisha Olokun and is thought to walk on the shore of the beach. Eshu Bi is a stern and forceful avatar, appearing as both an old man and young boy, who walked with Shangó and Oyá (the initial two Ibeyi), and Eshu Bi protects both of these, as well as all other small children. Eshu Laroye is an avatar believed to be the companion of Oshún and believed to be one of the most important Eshus, and the avatar of Eshu Laroye is thought to be talkative and small.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eshu

Eshu also has many manifestation, you can see Eshu is quiet different from Satan that lives in hell and causes only chaos. You should wonder why ifa people and babalawos in movies call Eshu for justice and early yorubas naming thier children Eshu yemi, Eshu gbemi etc.

I use to think Olorun and Eshu are actually God and Satan but they are borrowed words.

1 Like

Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Nobody: 3:00am On Feb 19, 2017
Anyone who followed what tingtingz has been saying since on this thread closely will notice that, the fellow has already apostatized and cunningly hiding it.

first he tried to make fun of the prophet by saying the children of the prophet died as a result of "cousin marriage" this alone is capable of taking him out of islam. I purposely did not engage him(and would not) because his misguidance has gone far and doesn't wish to retrace his steps, so i cant waste my time on someone who denies the truth even if it is as glaring as daylight.

are there no risks in AS and AS getting married likewise SS and AS, but is it haraam for them to get married? no, so isnt it normal that if two individuals want to get married, they test be it cousin or anything? and if they are adviced that they shouldn't get married, then they wouldn't, but does that means its haraam initially to get married, no, so what's so difficult in that to understand? if there are risks found in marriage between unrelated persons, the people against cousin marriage have nothing to say.

i mean, this guy is going far in misguidance every day, started off as "modern Muslim" then Quran only believer i.e ahlul quraniyyoon and now (i suspect) a deist, he keeps saying "I believe there is an intelligent design" and even praised Yoruba culture higher than the Islamic culture, made fun of Allâh saying he doesn't know cousin marriage has risks for him to have allowed it or not to have said "cousins should test before getting married", he has shown too much disbelieve in this thread such that if we were in an Islamic state, he would've been taken to the psychiatric hospital to see if he his still mentally OK, then the judge taking the appropriate judgement.

All these things shows he has lost faith in Islam, whoever Allâh allowed to be misguided, he will never see a helper to take him to the right path, rather he will see those that will readily misguide him the more, this is why he sees his Shia friend, his igmorant friend and his sufi friend that increase him in misguidance.

for the records, this thread aimed at two things, namely;

1.) YOU CAN MARRY YOUR COUSIN

hence,

2.) WATCH HOW YOU GET CLOSE TO HER, THE ISLAMIC RULING THAT APPLIES TO UNRELATED PEOPLE ALSO APPLY TO THAT YOUR COUSIN.

I remind you all of the words of Allâh.

Suratul A'raaf verses 44 to 51

And the companions of Paradise will call out to the companions of the Fire, "We have already found what our Lord promised us to be true. Have you found what your Lord promised to be true?" They will say, "Yes." Then an announcer will announce among them, "The curse of Allaah shall be upon the wrongdoers."

Who averted [people] from the way of Allaah and sought to make it [seem] deviant while they were, concerning the Hereafter, disbelievers.

And between them will be a hijab(partition), and on [its] elevations are men who are recognized all by their marks. And they call out to the companions of Paradise, "Peace be upon you." They have not [yet] entered it, but they long intensely.

And when their(companions of heaven) eyes are turned toward the companions of the Fire, they say, "Our Lord, do not place us with the wrongdoing people."

And the companions of the Elevations will call to men [within Hell] whom they recognize by their mark, saying, "Of no avail to you was your gathering and [the fact] that you were arrogant."

[ Allaah will say], "Are these the ones whom you [inhabitants of Hell] swore that Allaah would never offer them mercy? Enter Paradise, [O People of the Elevations]. No fear will there be concerning you, nor will you grieve."

And the companions of the Fire will call to the companions of Paradise, "Pour upon us some water or from whatever Allaah has provided you." They will say, "Indeed, Allaah has forbidden them both to the disbelievers."

Who took their religion as distraction and amusement and whom the worldly life deluded." So today We will forget them just as they forgot the meeting of this Day of theirs and for having rejected Our verses.

you all should be careful because the promise of Allâh is a reality and his words are truthful.

BTW I'm waiting for their insults as usual.

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Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Empiree: 4:35am On Feb 19, 2017
tintingz:
I read a lot of Prophet Muhammad (SA) children died.
This is off akhi. This is unrelated. This is test and trial for the prophet (SAW) and it has nothing to do with them being born through cousins marriage.

Cousin marriage is Halal base on Quran alone (in case you choose to disregard the hadith). In the verse below, Cousins marriage is exempted from forbidden marriages. That should have cleared the air.



Prohibited to you [for marriage] are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters, your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your [milk] mothers who nursed you, your sisters through nursing, your wives' mothers, and your step-daughters under your guardianship [born] of your wives unto whom you have gone in. But if you have not gone in unto them, there is no sin upon you. And [also prohibited are] the wives of your sons who are from your [own] loins, and that you take [in marriage] two sisters simultaneously, except for what has already occurred. Indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful. Q4:23



And I have said earlier that it is mustahab. It is individual and family matter. Some family are so close like myself where we dont even recognize "cousins". For this reason it is no no for me but it remains HALAL. The only thing to do before engaging in such is proper precaution. Both of them should visit medical professional beforehand. Just like Umar faruq (ra) advised a man to marry from outside his family bcus they are thin and sick.

As for "Olorun", it is not correct. It is Olohun {Creator and Owner of Everything}. While Olorun {Owner Of Heavens}. The later restricts Allah's Majesty auzubillah. It is mistake on the part of those who pronounce the later. Besides, Allah says in the Quran call Him by whatever name but to Him belongs the Best and Most beautiful names Q17:110

1 Like

Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Nobody: 5:01am On Feb 19, 2017
^^ Just a correction, its not mustahab(recommended) to marry your cousin, its just halal(permissible), for if you say its mustahab(recommended), then you are saying there is a special reward for marrying your cousin, rather IT IS MUSTAHAB to marry a non related person instead of your cousin according to the scholars for obvious reasons.

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Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Empiree: 5:07am On Feb 19, 2017
^

Thanks
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by tintingz(m): 6:49am On Feb 19, 2017
AbdelKabir:
Anyone who followed what tingtingz has been saying since on this thread closely will notice that, the fellow has already apostatized and cunningly hiding it.

first he tried to make fun of the prophet by saying the children of the prophet died as a result of "cousin marriage" this alone is capable of taking him out of islam. I purposely did not engage him(and would not) because his misguidance has gone far and doesn't wish to retrace his steps, so i cant waste my time on someone who denies the truth even if it is as glaring as daylight.
You must be high on something. cool

Is asking question same as making fun?

are there no risks in AS and AS getting married likewise SS and AS, but is it haraam for them to get married? no, so isnt it normal that if two individuals want to get married, they test be it cousin or anything? and if they are adviced that they shouldn't get married, then they wouldn't, but does that means its haraam initially to get married, no, so what's so difficult in that to understand? if there are risks found in marriage between unrelated persons, the people against cousin marriage have nothing to say.
So the super-being didn't know the risk behind incest? Why created genotype then? This alone proves evolution occurs for people to have different genotypes.

I mean, this guy is going far in misguidance every day, started off as "modern Muslim" then Quran only believer i.e ahlul quraniyyoon and now (i suspect) a deist, he keeps saying "I believe there is an intelligent design" and even praised Yoruba culture higher than the Islamic culture, made fun of Allâh saying he doesn't know cousin marriage has risks for him to have allowed it or not to have said "cousins should test before getting married", he has shown too much disbelieve in this thread such that if we were in an Islamic state, he would've been taken to the psychiatric hospital to see if he his still mentally OK, then the judge taking the appropriate judgement.
I know, people like you will call me apostate and call for my head. Lol because we don't share same ideology i should be checked if I am mentally ok? The way some people reason amaze me eh!. grin

- I am Yoruba and not an Arab, I believe in my culture so kindly suck it.

- Mr sharia-man you can come and behead me, you can call one of those Arab scholars that give fatwas to announce my apostate.

All these things shows he has lost faith in Islam, whoever Allâh allowed to be misguided, he will never see a helper to take him to the right path, rather he will see those that will readily misguide him the more, this is why he sees his Shia friend, his igmorant friend and his sufi friend that increase him in misguidance.
Must you be sectarian? Why involving shia and Sufi to my personality, again you're high on something.

for the records, this thread aimed at two things, namely;

1.) YOU CAN MARRY YOUR COUSIN

hence,

2.) WATCH HOW YOU GET CLOSE TO HER, THE ISLAMIC RULING THAT APPLIES TO UNRELATED PEOPLE ALSO APPLY TO THAT YOUR COUSIN.
Oga Han-solo, I have said it before that having intimate relationship or love with cousins is their choice, their problem, their business but having an incestuous children is where the problem is.

This thread is kind of promoting something that will cause medical problems.

Arab countries are among highest rates in genetic disorder.

I remind you all of the words of Allâh.



you all should be careful because the promise of Allâh is a reality and his words are truthful.

BTW I'm waiting for their insults as usual.
Ofcos everybody should be careful, I included, because some sharia-men might appear in my house.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Rilwayne001: 7:08am On Feb 19, 2017
AbdelKabir:
he has shown too much disbelieve in this thread such that if we were in an Islamic state, he would've been taken to the psychiatric hospital to see if he his still mentally OK, then the judge taking the appropriate judgement.


Caveman, what are you saying now

And @ Taiwo, thank your stars that you are in a secular state, else na die you dey. See what this caveman just outlined for you grin lol

, this is why he sees his Shia friend, his igmorant friend and his sufi friend that increase him in misguidance.


There you go again with your holier than thou attitude. You are the most holy. The all knowing that sees others as ignorant. Your delusion is strong and in most cases i just shake my head for you. You are so arrogant that you so much esteem yourself to a point where you see every other persons that doesn't do what you do as a fool.

Well well, whatever flies your jet.

for the records, this thread aimed at two things, namely;
1.) YOU CAN MARRY YOUR COUSIN
hence, 2.) WATCH HOW YOU GET CLOSE TO HER, THE ISLAMIC RULING THAT APPLIES TO UNRELATED PEOPLE ALSO APPLY TO THAT YOUR COUSIN.


My cousin are more like my siblings and trying to say we should treat them like other unrelated people is a caveman idea I'll never accept.

Issue fatwa on my head, that's you wahala angry

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Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by tintingz(m): 7:12am On Feb 19, 2017
Empiree:
This is off akhi. This is unrelated. This is test and trial for the prophet (SAW) and it has nothing to do with them being born through cousins marriage.
Almost all Prophet Muhammad (SA) children died in early age(childhood).

It most be something inherited.

And I'm NOT making fun of it, I was only asking question before some sharia war-head call it blasphemy.

Cousin marriage is Halal base on Quran alone (in case you choose to disregard the hadith). In the verse below, Cousins marriage is exempted from forbidden marriages. That should have cleared the air.



Prohibited to you [for marriage] are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters, your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your [milk] mothers who nursed you, your sisters through nursing, your wives' mothers, and your step-daughters under your guardianship [born] of your wives unto whom you have gone in. But if you have not gone in unto them, there is no sin upon you. And [also prohibited are] the wives of your sons who are from your [own] loins, and that you take [in marriage] two sisters simultaneously, except for what has already occurred. Indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful. Q4:23



And I have said earlier that it is mustahab. It is individual and family matter. Some family are so close like myself where we dont even recognize "cousins". For this reason it is no no for me but it remains HALAL. The only thing to do before engaging in such is proper precaution. Both of them should visit medical professional beforehand. Just like Umar faruq (ra) advised a man to marry from outside his family bcus they are thin and sick.
Yes, I've said it that cousin relationship is people's choice but having kids out of cousin relationship is something not health-wise.

As for "Olorun", it is not correct. It is Olohun {Creator and Owner of Everything}. While Olorun {Owner Of Heavens}. The later restricts Allah's Majesty auzubillah. It is mistake on the part of those who pronounce the later. Besides, Allah says in the Quran call Him by whatever name but to Him belongs the Best and Most beautiful names Q17:110





I think you're not base in Nigeria, Olorun is the same as Olohun "Oni orun/ohun" owner or ruler of heaven, Orun or ohun means sky or heaven.

Eledumare is the creator, which Yoruba call "eleda".

-Eledumare = Creator
- Olorun = Ruler of heaven
- Olofi = The conduit between heaven and earth.

These three manifest in one as supreme God, they are the same in Yoruba religion.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by tintingz(m): 7:19am On Feb 19, 2017
Rilwayne001:


Caveman, what are you saying now

And @ Taiwo, thank your stars that you are in a secular state, else na die you dey. See what this caveman just outlined for you grin lol



There you go again with your holier than thou attitude. You are the most holy. The all knowing that sees others as ignorant. Your delusion is strong and in most cases i just shake my head for you. You are so arrogant that you so much esteem yourself to a point where you see every other persons that doesn't do what you do as a fool.

Well well, whatever flies your jet.



My cousin are more like my siblings and trying to say we should treat them like other unrelated people is a caveman idea I'll never accept.

Issue fatwa on my head, that's you wahala angry
My brother I tire oo, this Islam section forum is getting scary.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Rilwayne001: 7:22am On Feb 19, 2017
tintingz:


Eledumare is the creator, which Yoruba call "eleda".

-Eledumare = Creator


Well the reason why i said last night that "olodumare" is more likely to be mistook for Allah is that, I've heard on different occasion by yoruba paganists that the break-down of the word is ONI-ODU-TO-MO-IRE: the ODU there stands for Odu-ifa and other pagan stuffs like that. So it roughly mean the diviner that knows success.

Eleda means creator and not Eledumare.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Nobody: 8:18am On Feb 19, 2017
AbdelKabir:
Anyone who followed what tingtingz has been saying since on this thread closely will notice that, the fellow has already apostatized and cunningly hiding it.

first he tried to make fun of the prophet by saying the children of the prophet died as a result of "cousin marriage" this alone is capable of taking him out of islam. I purposely did not engage him(and would not) because his misguidance has gone far and doesn't wish to retrace his steps, so i cant waste my time on someone who denies the truth even if it is as glaring as daylight.

are there no risks in AS and AS getting married likewise SS and AS, but is it haraam for them to get married? no, so isnt it normal that if two individuals want to get married, they test be it cousin or anything? and if they are adviced that they shouldn't get married, then they wouldn't, but does that means its haraam initially to get married, no, so what's so difficult in that to understand? if there are risks found in marriage between unrelated persons, the people against cousin marriage have nothing to say.

i mean, this guy is going far in misguidance every day, started off as "modern Muslim" then Quran only believer i.e ahlul quraniyyoon and now (i suspect) a deist, he keeps saying "I believe there is an intelligent design" and even praised Yoruba culture higher than the Islamic culture, made fun of Allâh saying he doesn't know cousin marriage has risks for him to have allowed it or not to have said "cousins should test before getting married", he has shown too much disbelieve in this thread such that if we were in an Islamic state, he would've been taken to the psychiatric hospital to see if he his still mentally OK, then the judge taking the appropriate judgement.

All these things shows he has lost faith in Islam, whoever Allâh allowed to be misguided, he will never see a helper to take him to the right path, rather he will see those that will readily misguide him the more, this is why he sees his Shia friend, his igmorant friend and his sufi friend that increase him in misguidance.

for the records, this thread aimed at two things, namely;

1.) YOU CAN MARRY YOUR COUSIN

hence,

2.) WATCH HOW YOU GET CLOSE TO HER, THE ISLAMIC RULING THAT APPLIES TO UNRELATED PEOPLE ALSO APPLY TO THAT YOUR COUSIN.

I remind you all of the words of Allâh.



you all should be careful because the promise of Allâh is a reality and his words are truthful.

BTW I'm waiting for their insults as usual.

Jazakallaahu khayran.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Nobody: 9:29am On Feb 19, 2017
Rilwayne001:


Caveman, what are you saying now

And @ Taiwo, thank your stars that you are in a secular state, else na die you dey. See what this caveman just outlined for you grin lol



There you go again with your holier than thou attitude. You are the most holy. The all knowing that sees others as ignorant. Your delusion is strong and in most cases i just shake my head for you. You are so arrogant that you so much esteem yourself to a point where you see every other persons that doesn't do what you do as a fool.

Well well, whatever flies your jet.



My cousin are more like my siblings and trying to say we should treat them like other unrelated people is a caveman idea I'll never accept.

Issue fatwa on my head, that's you wahala angry

Shut-Up how dare you challenge decree of the Lord. Your female cousins are not your Hiram although they are your extended family relatives. No body is saying you should treat them as unrelated, but you shouldn't treat them as Hiram. Marriage do exist between you and them.

Nobody force you to marry them and you also shouldn't stop others of your own tribe (from cousins marriage) base on outdated culture or so. Except in the case where a medical advice is given on particular individuals. (Not general).

If this is civilisation, then I rather live uncivilized.

This is Allah's decree and there is nothing Rilwan can do to change it. Signed and Sealed
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Rilwayne001: 10:06am On Feb 19, 2017
FriendChoice:


Shut-Up how dare you challenge decree of the Lord.
Your female cousins are not your Hiram although they are your extended family relatives. No body is saying you should treat them as unrelated, but you shouldn't treat them as Hiram. Marriage do exist between you and them.


But i think intention and how i see them is what matter most. I see my cousin as my siblings. Infact, i don't call them my cousin, i refer to them as my sister and so on like that.

Nobody force you to marry them and you also shouldn't stop others of your own tribe (from cousins marriage) base on outdated culture or so.


Yes, i don't really feel someone forcing me to do it, i actually found it repulsive. And i can't stop my fellow tribesmen from doing what they can't even conceive. I am yet to see a yoruba Muslim doing it, infact most Muslims here don't know it is allowed, even if they do, I'm certain they won't. Although I've seen our Hausa brothers doing it, but it's also rare.

And our culture is not outdated..hausa culture is grin tongue

Except in the case where a medical advice is given on particular individuals. (Not general).


No. Medical advice is against it and I'm certain you don't agree with science here, do you?

If this is civilisation, then I rather live uncivilized.


Good for you wink

This is Allah's decree and there is nothing Rilwan can do to change it. Signed and Sealed

Well you are right, I'm not intending to change it. I only see my cousin as my siblings and I wouldn't treat them like an outsider talk less thinking of marrying them.

It's not mandatory, is it??.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Nobody: 10:31am On Feb 19, 2017
Rilwayne001:


But i think intention and how i see them is what matter most. I see my cousin as my siblings. Infact, i don't call them my cousin, i refer to them as my sister and so on like that.

Your intention doesn't make them your sisters but sisters cousins.


Yes, i don't really feel someone forcing me to do it, i actually found it repulsive. And i can't stop my fellow tribesmen from doing what they can't even conceive. I am yet to see a yoruba Muslim doing it, infact most Muslims here don't know it is allowed, even if they do, I'm certain they won't. Although I've seen our Hausa brothers doing it, but it's also rare.

That means that side need more Islamic education. Because the Quran clearly stated who and who you cannot marry. And they are not aware cousins marriage is allowed? Then they need to read the Qur'an more and more.


And our culture is not outdated..hausa culture is grin tongue

You yourself knows deep into your heart that the Hausa culture of today is more of Islamic culture. A Hausa can sacrifice his culture for Islam sake.



No. Medical advice is against it and I'm certain you don't agree with science here, do you?

You're not in that Field. I should be the one to speak not you. As I said earlier the genetic disorder is very rare. So if two cousins wants to marry, a test should be conducted on them first. The genetic constituent of several people differs and so test need to be done.



Well you are right, I'm not intending to change it. I only see my cousin as my siblings and I wouldn't treat them like an outsider talk less thinking of marrying them.

It's not mandatory, is it??.

This crap you write doesn't make them your Hiram.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Rilwayne001: 11:11am On Feb 19, 2017
FriendChoice:


Your intention doesn't make them your sisters but sisters cousins.


My intention does.


That means that side need more Islamic education. Because the Quran clearly stated who and who you cannot marry. And they are not aware cousins marriage is allowed? Then they need to read the Qur'an more and more.


No, don't get me wrong. Yoruba Muslims scholars knows about it, but most nominal Muslims like myself and others don't know about it maybe because scholars don't talk about it.

You yourself knows deep into your heart that the Hausa culture of today is more of Islamic culture. A Hausa can sacrifice his culture for Islam sake.


Yeah.. Make i just shut up here lipsrsealed




You're not in that Field. I should be the one to speak not you. As I said earlier the genetic disorder is very rare.


Yes I'm not in the field but to be honest, do you think a medical practioner - without appealing to religion - will give such advice?

So if two cousins wants to marry, a test should be conducted on them first. The genetic constituent of several people differs and so test need to be done.


So you are talking about test too, since you know the chances of it not working is high compared to marrying an outsider.


This crap you write doesn't make them your Hiram.

Okay sha.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by tintingz(m): 11:50am On Feb 19, 2017
Rilwayne001:


Well the reason why i said last night that "olodumare" is more likely to be mistook for Allah is that, I've heard on different occasion by yoruba paganists that the break-down of the word is ONI-ODU-TO-MO-IRE: the ODU there stands for Odu-ifa and other pagan stuffs like that. So it roughly mean the diviner that knows success.

Eleda means creator and not Eledumare.
Eledumare is the original Yoruba ancient word for the creator, Olodumare is the title but they are the same.

- Olodumare consist of both Olorun and Eledumare like Olorun Eledumare shorten to Olo-Dumare meaning " Owner of universe, supreme God.

- Eleda means creator but it is just a word, a title given to Eledumare which is the original name of the manifestation of supreme God.

Just like Oluwa means Lord, a title given to Olorun.(God).

Read:

When we ascend into the Yoruba religion, We must first look at the source of all living creatures within our universe and beyond. Thus it brings us to Olodumare , Oló-dú-ma- ré [Olo-run, Elédumare] meaning . Owner of the universe, supreme God.

"Olodumare was transferred into Olorun. Literal meaning: ‘owner’. The head of the Yoruban pantheon, which contains 1,700 divinities. He is Olofin-Orun, ‘lord of heaven’; also he is Olodumare, ‘almighty’ and ‘supreme’. To the Yoruba of Nigeria, this sky god is the discern-er of hearts—‘he who sees the inside and the outside of man’. Active in celestial and terrestrial affairs, Olorun is able to do all things; he is the enabler of all who achieve any ends. No one has ever seen this ‘king who cannot be found by searching’, yet as Olodumare he is omnipotent : a mighty, eternal rock, forever constant and reliable.

https://sites.google.com/site/theyorubareligiousconcepts/olodumare

Our ancestors were pagans, they worship Olorun the supreme God before the Missionaries and Arabs brought Christianity and Islam introducing us the word "Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah" these God's names are Arabic, Jewish, Hebrew, Bishop Ajayi crowder hijacked/borrowed the word Olorun and Eshu when translating the bible to Yoruba.

Olorun is actually a pagan God or diety, many religious people don't even know that, Eshu is not the devil/satan that lives in hell and causes chaos portrayed in Abrahamic religion, Eshu is different from Satan the only similarity is Eshu is a trickster god but it is for justice. Eshu has is own manifestation, which is protective spirit to children, justice spirit, messenger between heaven and earth and so on.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by golpen(m): 10:28am On Feb 20, 2017
This is a topic that has been discussed over again. There is a report of a 35 year study of renown geneticist, Prof. Bittles on this.

He says;

Opponents argue that first cousin marriage increases the risk of passing on genetic abnormalities. But for Bittles, 35 years of research on the health effects of cousin marriage have led him to believe that the risks of marrying a cousin have been greatly exaggerated.


You can read full article here;

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-04/nesc-wnm042512.php

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Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by tintingz(m): 5:06pm On Feb 20, 2017
@golpen, I quoted this from the link you provided.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-04/nesc-wnm042512.php

Durham, NC -- The health risks of marrying a cousin have been grossly overstated, says a new book.
A better understanding of the health effects of cousin marriage could mean more appropriate marriage laws and better medical care for cousin couples and their children.
Overstated and yet you know there are health effects on having children in cousin marriage? Dr. Dumbo! grin

In 'Consanguinity in Context,' author and medical geneticist Alan H. Bittles of Murdoch University in Australia examines common misconceptions about cousin marriage from legal, cultural, religious and medical perspectives.

Marriage between cousins is taboo in much of the Western world. In the United States, 31 of 50 states outlaw marriage between first cousins, or allow it only under certain circumstances.

Although cousin marriage is banned in much of the US, the practice is tolerated and even encouraged in other parts of the world. In South Asia and the Middle East, for example, 20-50% of marriages are between first cousins or even closer relatives. They're in good company. More than 10% of people worldwide are married to a second cousin or closer, or have parents who are cousins.
Dr. Dumbo can you please shut up and stop lying? Why did many countries ban cousin marriage? Even China that practice cousin marriage has ban the practice. Cousin relationship is allowed in some countries(freedom of choice) but marriage and having incestuous kids in not allowed.

Charles Darwin and his wife Emma were first cousins. Darwin's grandparents were cousins too.
Yes Charles Darwin married his cousin but three children out of ten died in infant, who knows if the other children carries autosomal in their gene.

Darwin is an evolutionist but his research hasn't gotten to that level, and it was out of culture they might have married.

Cultures where cousin marriage is common point to its social and economic benefits, such as strengthening family ties and keeping wealth in the family.
But increases in genetic disorder, Arabs are among the highest genetic disorders.

Cousin marriage is an old practice in some culture like China.

Opponents argue that first cousin marriage increases the risk of passing on genetic abnormalities. But for Bittles, 35 years of research on the health effects of cousin marriage have led him to believe that the risks of marrying a cousin have been greatly exaggerated.
35 years research my left ass, Dr. Dumbo you lying, you used Darwin as an example yet you dont know his three children died in infant, you dont know Arabs are battling the control of genetic disorder.

There's no doubt that children whose parents are close biological relatives are at a greater average risk of inheriting genetic disorders, Bittles writes. Studies of cousin marriages worldwide suggest that the risks of illness and early death are three to four percent higher than in the rest of the population.
We're talking about passing the autosomal gene to generations.

But the risks apply primarily to couples who are carriers of disorders that are normally very, very rare, Bittles explained. "For over 90% of cousin marriages, their risk [of having a child with a genetic abnormality] is the same as it is for the general population," he said.
This man is confused. Can this man tell us how genetic disorder is pass to gene from generation to generation.

What's more, many studies of the effects of cousin marriage fail to account for the influence of non-genetic factors on infant health, such as socioeconomic status, maternal diet during pregnancy, and infections. "Many of the data are exceedingly poor," Bittles said.

Some degree of inbreeding has been the norm for much of human history.
This man should show us his certificates.

Scientists estimate that the first people to migrate out of Africa numbered 700 to 10,000 breeding-aged individuals. Given those small numbers, and the fact that these people likely dispersed in small hunter-gatherer groups and often married within their clan or tribe, "it seems inevitable that some level of close kin mating would have occurred," Bittles writes.
Ofcos close kin mating would have occur no doubt, but your research didn't tell you that there are diversity of genes during the time of early humans?

If you marry within your community, there's not a lot of people to choose from," he added.

Bittles is now studying the effects of kin mating in early humans and the genetic consequences for people living today at the U. S. National Evolutionary Synthesis Center in Durham, North Carolina.
Dr. Dumbo is just doing research on this. grin

One surprising and oft-neglected advantage of marriage between close biological relatives is a phenomenon called purging, in which disease genes are exposed and removed from the gene pool.

Thanks to purging, marriage between close relatives in early human populations would have kept the prevalence of genetic disorders low, Bittles explained.
So you know genetic disorder must have happened in early humans. Confused man.

Today, cousin marriage is on the rise in regions with a large influx of immigrants from areas where the practice is more common, such as North Africa, the Middle East, and Central and Southern Asia.

Oga read result:

The Centre for Arab Genomic Studies (CAGS) oversees genetic analyses on the populations of the Arab world. Based in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, it indicates that Arab countries have among the highest rates of genetic disorders in the world. Some 906 pathologies are endemic to the Arab states, including thalassaemia, Tourette's syndrome, Wilson's disease, Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease, mitochondrial encephalomyopathies and Niemann-Pick disease.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Arabs

But in the long-term, shrinking family sizes and increased mobility in many parts of the world means that cousin marriage is likely to decline. In the absence of purging, harmful genetic variants could accumulate over time.

"We may be creating a problem for ourselves in future gene"
So this mumu doctor know this before.

1 Like

Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by golpen(m): 10:07pm On Feb 20, 2017
@tintingz...

Its an insult to call someone names all because you do not agree with their point of views. He has studied both biological and research cases of genetic disorder in cousin marriages, hence, if you look into his text with an open mind, he has made valid points. I'll state them to help make it easier.

1. There have been exaggerations. This means that he is not disputing the fact that there is a higher risk of genetic disorders in cousin marriage, but the percentage is just four percent higher at most, than any other three percent risk from any other marriage. Four percent which also can be found as a result of any other causative factor outside cousin marriage. Four percent higher makes 7 of 100 children.

2. Earlier researches have shortcomings. They haven't taken into consideration some other vital factors why genetic disorder could emerge in pregnancy. Factors like, antenatal care, nutrition, disease from the mother to child, drug abuse and abnormal prescriptions. All these have been missing in earlier researches, which makes their evidences weak and lazy. Means 3 of 10 of Darwin's children could have died of a different cause.

3. All of these defects are also very POSSIBLE with distant marriages due to other causative effects different from genetic resemblance.

4. You have also refused to mention a major advantage mentioned in the article. Purging. Read that again, if you probably missed that in the first place.

5. It is agreed that recurrence of this practice increases the risk of genetic disorders, which may actually be cause to increase in the case of the Arab world.

I'll advice to study with open minds and not bigotry. However, practice of first cousin marriage is a choice, weighing the risk is a necessity. Thanks.

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Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Demmzy15(m): 10:56pm On Feb 20, 2017
^^^I think these points above as sealed the deal, but I'm damn sure he's going to reply with a nonsensical post, off point.

Let's wait!

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Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by tintingz(m): 12:34am On Feb 21, 2017
Demmzy15:
^^^I think these points above as sealed the deal, but I'm damn sure he's going to reply with a nonsensical post, off point.

Let's wait!
Mr TB Joshua, you haven't seen my post you already predicting negatively. grin

See how your brain dey reason. cool
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by Nobody: 9:08am On Feb 21, 2017
Oga golpen ebi like say you don't know tintingz

He has already made his mind to reject what ever you say be it true or false. So don't waste too much of your time. God bless you.
Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by golpen(m): 10:11am On Feb 21, 2017
FriendChoice:
Oga golpen ebi like say you don't know tintingz

He has already made his mind to reject what ever you say be it true or false. So don't waste too much of your time. God bless you.

Thanks bro... I'll just be cool then.. God bless you too sir. .

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Re: Cousin Marriage in Islam by sino(m): 10:51am On Feb 21, 2017
Jazakumullahu khayran @golpen for your analysis. One fact that is incontrovertible is that inbreeding is not the cause of birth defects. While it may increase the risk of having defective children, this can only be true, if there is indeed a genetic problem in the family, and the rare defects are what we are talking of.

Consanguinity and Autosomal Recessive Disorders
In mathematical terms, consanguinity does not alter the allele frequencies of common disorders, but increases the probability of a mating between two individual heterozygotes for the same recessive mutant allele. In this regard, the risk for birth defects in the offspring of first-cousin marriage is expected to increase sharply compared to non- consanguineous marriages particularly for rare autosomal recessive disease genes, because for common recessive conditions, there is a high chance that the abnormal gene may be carried by unrelated spouses and may be expressed in their progeny

http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/pdf/1742-4755-6-17.pdf

This above shows that even though consanguinity increases the risk for "RARE" autosomal recessive disorders, if unrelated couples also get married, and either of the spouses is a carrier of a recessive condition, then such condition maybe expressed in their offspring.

I now ask, what is the problem?! Since unrelated couples can also pass on defect to their progeny, and then being expressed, why then the uproar against Islam and permissibility of cousin marriages?!

FriendChoice gave an example of sickle-cell, fortunately, sickle-cell is also autosomal recessive in pattern of inheritance. Islam does not talk about prohibiting the marriage to a sickle-cell /carrier (AS), and if you marry such a person, your marriage is Halal (permissible). Of course there are better ways of managing sickle-cell, and even proposed cure, just as there are test centers in areas with high consanguinity marriages, and research in treatment and cure of genetically related birth defects.

To buttress the exaggerations, here is a report that captures the rate of birth defect in Arab countries compared to the West:

"The recent report by March of Dimes estimated birth defects to be >69.9/1000 live births in most Arab countries, as opposed to <52.1/1000 live births in Europe, North America and Australia. Lower observed rates of 7.92/1000 births and 12.5/1000 births were registered in the UAE and Kuwait, respectively. In Oman, among 21,988 births, 24.6 per 1000 births had major malformations." (ibid.)

It should be noted that the above figures for the Arab states cannot be exclusively stated being as the result of consanguineous marriages, for there are conflicting reports of association, not to mention other factors responsible for birth defects...

With the way some people are arguing, One would have thought the whole Arabs are now deformed and defective based on their continued practice of cousin marriage....

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