***

golpen:


There are two types of people. People that try and get results and people that just sit and wait to criticize the results. We know the values for both.

yeye, just say you're out of juice.

Danger in frequent recurrent practice has been stated and discouraged, which is a factor you and your researchers haven't taken to consideration in this article. Frequent recurrent practice is peculiar to Arabs, means the Arab region shouldn't even be a scope of review in the first place, since we know what to expect.

You make no sense here.

A society is known to practice incest(following religious beliefs) and they are the highest in genetic disorder and you said they shouldnt be scope of review? Who's your research teacher?

Furthermore, Bittles argument is not about comparing anomalies in genetic defects in cousin marriages with the others. He is asking to take other factors mentioned into consideration from this same practice. From this weak research of yours, parents from this practice who have fallen short in taking good antenatal routines and good nutrition or mothers that have affected their children through a disease or have taken a false prescription or abused drugs at that delicate stage, have not been considered. Once abnormal products are from cousin marriage practice, they don't waste time to add to the figures.

Study has shown that having close genetic can have health effect and anomalies in genes, the other consideration are just part of it. You haven't shown how anomalies is pass to genes of offspring.

Americans are high rate in smoking, drinking alcohol, taking drugs and abortion yet the rate of genetic disorder is low.

Asia, Arab countries laws(sharia) is strict in smoking, taking drugs, drinking alcohol and abortion yet they are highest in genetic disorder.

It shows that the gene of the latter society is dominated with anomalies.

"obvious and logical"? I thought you had facts. Could any other cause be logical? I have a neighbour who has suffered from infant mortality about three consecutive times. Fact is both parents don't have the commonest of roots. I'm sure you and your bigot researchers must have quickly accused incest for their woes if they were cousins. Is it obvious and logical that their case is not from common inbreeding..?

Have you joined Dr Dumbo's league?

Darwin's experiment is about inbreeding, he married his FIRST COUSIN, his SIX children suffered severe defects, what does your rational reasoning deduce?

Can you tell me what can said to be a fact?!

Something is obvious and very logical, what does that mean?

For example, it has been observed that 30 people died after eating apples from a particular tree in aso rock, is it not obvious and your logic and intellectual reasoning tell you that the tree must have been polluted with toxics or na winch dey kill them?

Darwin's case remains a theory. He FEARED the effect, not he was sure of the effect on his children. Don't use weak points if you don't have facts.

The Wikipedia link said Darwin's did experiment on plants and other things and his wife was concerned about the impact of inbreeding on his ten children which six had defects due to inbreed. You don't need a Sherlock Holmes to tell you this.

Risk is high, 4 percent, under thorough Natal care and normal factors in place. That is fact. Another fact is, frequent recurrent practice comes with higher risk, we agree. Risk is reduced if an incest breed parent marries from an uncommon root and it eliminates the risk as uncommon root marriage is passed on.

The effect of inherent or passing it is high, I've provided a link on it. Good you agreed the risk is higher when the practice is frequent.

It has to do with genetic relation, not people of different ages.

Purging has to do with natural selection and not every gene can purge, when an inbreed depression is over dominance it cannot be purged.

No doubt, it goes with your argument.



Having children is risky anyway, by definition. Incest is just a causative factors of those risks, factually out of many others. Focus more on getting the best Natal care, you should be fine or have issues like you'd have had even if you married from Mars. Try to avoid recurring practice in your family. No problem, just keep in mind the increase in risk, finito!

It is in a belief to practice incest yet there are risk behind it, yet you need to do natal care to avoid the risk, abeg which kind hypocrisy and ignorant is this?

I will implore you and your quack biologists to take these other factors into consideration inside Incest practice and come back with a more viable and accurate result.

Dr dumbo dont know darwin six children died he doesnt know middle east are suffering from genetic disoder and he wants me to accept his fallacy?

And hes just doing research on early humans!

Abeg You and Dr dumbo should step up.

We hear and we obey, that's why we are called Muslims.
if you don't believe in the Quran then you need not dabble into this issue because it's not a matter that concerns you.

Allah has mentioned the prohibited women in the Quran, no addition and no subtraction.

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 23:
حُرِّمَتْ عَلَيْكُمْ أُمَّهَاتُكُمْ وَبَنَاتُكُمْ وَأَخَوَاتُكُمْ وَعَمَّاتُكُمْ وَخَالَاتُكُمْ وَبَنَاتُ الْأَخِ وَبَنَاتُ الْأُخْتِ وَأُمَّهَاتُكُمُ اللَّاتِي أَرْضَعْنَكُمْ وَأَخَوَاتُكُم مِّنَ الرَّضَاعَةِ وَأُمَّهَاتُ نِسَائِكُمْ وَرَبَائِبُكُمُ اللَّاتِي فِي حُجُورِكُم مِّن نِّسَائِكُمُ اللَّاتِي دَخَلْتُم بِهِنَّ فَإِن لَّمْ تَكُونُوا دَخَلْتُم بِهِنَّ فَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَحَلَائِلُ أَبْنَائِكُمُ الَّذِينَ مِنْ أَصْلَابِكُمْ وَأَن تَجْمَعُوا بَيْنَ الْأُخْتَيْنِ إِلَّا مَا قَدْ سَلَفَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا

Forbidden to you (for marriage) are: your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters, your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your foster mother who gave you suck, your foster milk suckling sisters, your wives' mothers, your step daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom you have gone in - but there is no sin on you if you have not gone in them (to marry their daughters), - the wives of your sons who (spring) from your own loins, and two sisters in wedlock at the same time, except for what has already passed; verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

As you can see the cousins are not listed. so cousin marriage is perfectly fine and permissible irrespective of the distance and generation.

sino:
Jazakumullahu khayran @golpen for your analysis. One fact that is incontrovertible is that inbreeding is not the cause of birth defects. While it may increase the risk of having defective children, this can only be true, if there is indeed a genetic problem in the family, and the rare defects are what we are talking of.

Consanguinity and Autosomal Recessive Disorders
In mathematical terms, consanguinity does not alter the allele frequencies of common disorders, but increases the probability of a mating between two individual heterozygotes for the same recessive mutant allele. In this regard, the risk for birth defects in the offspring of first-cousin marriage is expected to increase sharply compared to non- consanguineous marriages particularly for rare autosomal recessive disease genes, because for common recessive conditions, there is a high chance that the abnormal gene may be carried by unrelated spouses and may be expressed in their progeny

http://www.reproductive-health-journal.com/content/pdf/1742-4755-6-17.pdf

This above shows that even though consanguinity increases the risk for "RARE" autosomal recessive disorders, if unrelated couples also get married, and either of the spouses is a carrier of a recessive condition, then such condition maybe expressed in their offspring.

I now ask, what is the problem?! Since unrelated couples can also pass on defect to their progeny, and then being expressed, why then the uproar against Islam and permissibility of cousin marriages?!

FriendChoice gave an example of sickle-cell, fortunately, sickle-cell is also autosomal recessive in pattern of inheritance. Islam does not talk about prohibiting the marriage to a sickle-cell /carrier (AS), and if you marry such a person, your marriage is Halal (permissible). Of course there are better ways of managing sickle-cell, and even proposed cure, just as there are test centers in areas with high consanguinity marriages, and research in treatment and cure of genetically related birth defects.

To buttress the exaggerations, here is a report that captures the rate of birth defect in Arab countries compared to the West:

"The recent report by March of Dimes estimated birth defects to be >69.9/1000 live births in most Arab countries, as opposed to <52.1/1000 live births in Europe, North America and Australia. Lower observed rates of 7.92/1000 births and 12.5/1000 births were registered in the UAE and Kuwait, respectively. In Oman, among 21,988 births, 24.6 per 1000 births had major malformations." (ibid.)

It should be noted that the above figures for the Arab states cannot be exclusively stated being as the result of consanguineous marriages, for there are conflicting reports of association, not to mention other factors responsible for birth defects...

With the way some people are arguing, One would have thought the whole Arabs are now deformed and defective based on their continued practice of cousin marriage....

- You make no sense here, Arabs practice incest more than any other nation why won't there be high Rate in genetic disorder? you will be the forth person here I will ask what killed Prophet Muhammad (SA) children in infant.

- If you see a doctor for genetic test on marrying your cousin, I'm very sure here in Nigeria a doctor will advice you not to marry your cousin because the case is no different from genotype.

- The risk of genetic disorder on related couples is higher than that of non-related couples, you don't need Bruce Wayne or Sherlock Holmes to tell a consanguineous marriage will produce an anomalies gene in their offspring. The super-being allows cousin-cousin marriage yet it doesn't tell them the risk behind it, now Arabs are full of genetic disorders.

tintingz:
- You make no sense here, Arabs practice incest more than any other nation why won't there be high Rate in genetic disorder? you will be the forth person here I will ask what killed Prophet Muhammad (SA) children in infant.

I don't know what killed them, but certainly it was their time to die, as you yourself would die at any time whether by diseases or by any other means, not to mention that you are not the first person to ask silly question like this, and Surah Al-Kawthar was specifically revealed for such people, you may pick a copy of the Qur'an and read...

I was looking forward to AlBaqir to come and support you on this, I guess, his eyes don dey clear small small....

tintingz:

- If you see a doctor for genetic test on marrying your cousin, I'm very sure here in Nigeria a doctor will advice you not to marry your cousin because the case is no different from genotype.

- The risk of genetic disorder on related couples is higher than that of non-related couples, you don't need Bruce Wayne or Sherlock Holmes to tell a consanguineous marriage will produce an anomalies gene in their offspring. The super-being allows cousin-cousin marriage yet it doesn't tell them the risk behind it, now Arabs are full of genetic disorders.

If there is a genetic defect, it is probable, (and that does not mean they can't give birth to healthy kids), if not, their kids would be normal! If you marry today tintingz, and you or your wife is carrying a defective gene, it is also probable to give birth to defective children, even if you go and marry a Chinese woman. And if non of you have a inheritable genetic disorder, your environment and other factors, may lead to you having defective children!

@bold I would ignore the fallacy and would only ask, we humans invented cars, do you know that these cars can cause your death?! #Think!!!

Please read my first post on this thread to see a comprehensive warning from Allah (SWT) the creator...And again, the Qur'an is revealed as a reminder to those who use their intelligence appropriately.

sino:

I don't know what killed them, but certainly it was their time to die, as you yourself would die at any time whether by diseases or by any other means, not to mention that you are not the first person to ask silly question like this, and Surah Al-Kawthar was specifically revealed for such people, you may pick a copy of the Qur'an and read...

I was looking forward to AlBaqir to come and support you on this, I guess, his eyes don dey clear small small....

Muhammad (SA) children died at early age and it doesn't ring a bell that something must have happened? Something inherited.?

Like they say : "There is no such thing as a stupid question"

And why involving Albaqir to my discussion, do I look a shia fellow? Do I sound like someone that need support fans or cheer leader so far in this thread?
Anybody can contribute to this thread.

If there is a genetic defect, it is probable, (and that does not mean they can't give birth to healthy kids), if not, their kids would be normal! If you marry today tintingz, and you or your wife is carrying a defective gene, it is also probable to give birth to defective children, even if you go and marry a Chinese woman. And if non of you have a inheritable genetic disorder, your environment and other factors, may lead to you having defective children!

The thing is, since the risk is high in consanguineous marriage why can't people just avoid it, I'm not against people's choice marrying or having relationship with their cousins, I'm only concerned about the future generations.

@bold I would ignore the fallacy and would only ask, we humans invented cars, do you know that these cars can cause your death?! #Think!!!

Humans are not super-Gods we are just humans, but the super-being is all-knowing yet no warning of genetic disorder in incest.

You should be the one to think.

Please read my first post on this thread to see a comprehensive warning from Allah (SWT) the creator...And again, the Qur'an is revealed as a reminder to those who use their intelligence appropriately.

A reminder that can't remind people about the risk in what He permitted.

tintingz:
Muhammad (SA) children died at early age and it doesn't ring a bell that something must have happened? Something inherited.?

Like they say : "There is no such thing as a stupid question"

And why involving Albaqir to my discussion, do I look a shia fellow? Do I sound like someone that need support fans or cheer leader so far in this thread?
Anybody can contribute to this thread.

Something inherited like what?!

Let me help you complete your quote up there, "there is no such thing as a stupid question, only inquisitive idiots" I bet you never knew...

By the way, AlBaqir has been your fan, and a cheerleader, he was also supporting inbreeding is the cause of birth defects, and I am quite surprised that he is now quiet. Not to mention that the Prophet's grand children Hassan(RA) and Hussein (RA) were as a result of consanguineous marriage, well if you do not know, they didn't die while they were children.

tintingz:

The thing is, since the risk is high in consanguineous marriage why can't people just avoid it, I'm not against people's choice marrying or having relationship with their cousins, I'm only concerned about the future generations.

Your concerns have been noted, those directly involved are living their lives, marrying their cousins, and enjoying themselves, at least, we have no report that suggests that the Arabs are going or would be going into extinction as a result of their consanguineous marriages...

tintingz:

Humans are not super-Gods we are just humans, but the super-being is all-knowing yet no warning of genetic disorder in incest.

You should be the one to think.

You got it all wrong, your car was never designed to kill you right?! So Allah (SWT) never permitted cousin marriages to harm you, so if you find harm in it, do not ask Allah (SWT) what went wrong, are there precautions you ought to have taken yourself?! You do not over speed and ended up having accident, then you now start blaming the manufacturer of the car for making it have a speed reaching 180 Km/h right?!

tintingz:

A reminder that can't remind people about the risk in what He permitted.

Do you have a problem with reading?! Allah (SWT) warns you not to harm yourselves, what other warning do you want?! Food is good for the body, Allah (SWT) provided us with the means to nourish ourselves, and made permissible what is lawful, and prohibited some, when you go ahead and start eating junk foods, and end up with obesity or cancer, do you expect the Qur'an to warn you specifically of cancer and obesity and prohibit junk food?! Is do not harm yourself universal, comprehensive and adequate enough for those who think and reflect?! #Think!!!

Yoruba would say "abo oro la n so fun omoluabi, to ba de inu e, a di odindin" "A word is enough for the wise", The Qur'an is speaking to people who (are willing to) apply their intelligence...

Rilwayne001:


But you know the odd is high compared to the normal one.

And btw, it is recommended and not mandatory, and so i don't really see this as an issue. The thread is uncalled for in the first place, and i see no reason why the OP should condemn the Yoruba for tagging such thing a taboo.

Baba Ibadan , tintingz, Empiree, Please pardon my late arrival to this thread. The comments are just too much for me to read piece by piece.

# Please is anyone here saying cousin marriage is recommended by the Quran? I'd like to see the verse.

# Islam is not a religion of Arab rather it is a universal religion which respect all customs/culture so far it is not in direct contradiction with any rulings of Islam. Cousin's marriage is one of those prevalent Arabian culture that preceded Islam. Islam was never the founder of it. Anyway, Islam did not object it in those area where it is being practiced. The risk is yours. Its like As vs As. While it is not Haram, it is highly recommended on medical advise that such a marriage should be avoided.

# In this part of the world, Yorubaland, such a thing in my culture is absolutely not welcome. Is this idea against Islam? Hell no!

sino:

Something inherited like what?!

Let me help you complete your quote up there, "there is no such thing as a stupid question, only inquisitive idiots" I bet you never knew...

I don't know about the latter phrase.

"(There's) no such thing as a stupid question" is a popular phrase that has had a long history. It suggests that the quest for knowledge includes failure, and that just because one person may know less than others they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases multiple people may not know but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_such_thing_as_a_stupid_question

You can see how "stupid question" is very important.

By the way, AlBaqir has been your fan, and a cheerleader, he was also supporting inbreeding is the cause of birth defects, and I am quite surprised that he is now quiet. Not to mention that the Prophet's grand children Hassan(RA) and Hussein (RA) were as a result of consanguineous marriage, well if you do not know, they didn't die while they were children.[/b]Can just stop involving AlBaqir to my discussion?, he's doing his thing, I'm doing mine.

[quote]Your concerns have been noted, those directly involved are living their lives, marrying their cousins, and enjoying themselves, at least, we have no report that suggests that the Arabs are going or would be going into extinction as a result of their consanguineous marriages...

But they are suffering from genetic defects.

You got it all wrong, your car was never designed to kill you right?! So Allah (SWT) never permitted cousin marriages to harm you, so if you find harm in it, do not ask Allah (SWT) what went wrong, are there precautions you ought to have taken yourself?! You do not over speed and ended up having accident, then you now start blaming the manufacturer of the car for making it have a speed reaching 180 Km/h right?!

Why did Allah created genes and genotypes?

Don't reduce Allah(SWT) to we humans.

Allah is all-knowing and merciful.

Do you have a problem with reading?! Allah (SWT) warns you not to harm yourselves, what other warning do you want?! Food is good for the body, Allah (SWT) provided us with the means to nourish ourselves, and made permissible what is lawful, and prohibited some, when you go ahead and start eating junk foods, and end up with obesity or cancer, do you expect the Qur'an to warn you specifically of cancer and obesity and prohibit junk food?! Is do not harm yourself universal, comprehensive and adequate enough for those who think and reflect?! #Think!!!

Allah is all-knowing and merciful.

Yoruba would say "abo oro la n so fun omoluabi, to ba de inu e, a di odindin" "A word is enough for the wise", The Qur'an is speaking to people who (are willing to) apply their intelligence...

Are you from Ogun state?

tintingz:

And why involving Albaqir to my discussion, do I look a shia fellow? Do I sound like someone that need support fans or cheer leader so far in this thread?
Anybody can contribute to this thread.

# You know our combo was just too much for the cave-thinking men to handle

# You have been tagged Shia already faah In their world whoever has an opposing ideas to theirs has become a Rafidha (rejecter).

# Several times, I remember, you and I have gone different direction in comments. They are very blind to that. In their fikr, once you oppose something, you are an enemy and must always act like one. They simply can't tolerate opposition.

tintingz:
I don't know about the latter phrase.

"(There's) no such thing as a stupid question" is a popular phrase that has had a long history. It suggests that the quest for knowledge includes failure, and that just because one person may know less than others they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases multiple people may not know but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_such_thing_as_a_stupid_question

You can see how "stupid question" is very important.

So how has your stupid question helped you in the quest for knowledge?! do you now know what killed the prophet's children?! Can you get samples to test your theories?! Is the answer(s) to your stupid question solve any problem?!

tintingz:

But they are suffering from genetic defects

Genetic defect is a global problem, it is not exclusive to the Arabs, you should know that most diseases are linked to genetics, even if they are not inheritable.

tintingz:

Why did Allah created genes and genotypes?

Don't reduce Allah(SWT) to we humans.

Allah is all-knowing and merciful.

Gene and genotype are some of the characteristics of life on this earth, without them, you wouldn't be here.

And when did you start believing in Allah (SWT)?!

AlBaqir:


Baba Ibadan , tintingz, Empiree, Please pardon my late arrival to this thread. The comments are just too much for me to read piece by piece.

# Please is anyone here saying cousin marriage is recommended by the Quran? I'd like to see the verse.

# Islam is not a religion of Arab rather it is a universal religion which respect all customs/culture so far it is not in direct contradiction with any rulings of Islam. Cousin's marriage is one of those prevalent Arabian culture that preceded Islam. Islam was never the founder of it. Anyway, Islam did not object it in those area where it is being practiced. The risk is yours. Its like As vs As. While it is not Haram, it is highly recommended on medical advise that such a marriage should be avoided.

# In this part of the world, Yorubaland, such a thing in my culture is absolutely not welcome. Is this idea against Islam? Hell no!

How convenient.

So the Prophet (SAW), and his ahl-lbayt practiced consanguinity, and you are here saying it is Arab culture. Indeed you have no shame, so your cousin is your mahram right?! So you are adding cousins to the prohibited women we cannot marry according to Islam right?! Did Allah (SWT) forget (audhubillah) to mention cousins in the Qur'an when listing those you cannot marry, because you as a Yoruba man, it is taboo to marry your cousin right?! I never thought you would go this low...I pity you seriously....Perhaps share why the Prophet's children died young, was it as a result of cousin marriage like your friend suggests?!

sino:

So how has your stupid question helped you in the quest for knowledge?! do you now know what killed the prophet's children?! Can you get samples to test your theories?! Is the answer(s) to your stupid question solve any problem?!

My "stupid questions" has helped me a lot, the person who asked questions knows reason he's asking.
Since no one is unable to answer what killed Prophet Muhammad (SA) children in INFANT, then something is not adding up.

Genetic defect is a global problem, it is not exclusive to the Arabs, you should know that most diseases are linked to genetics, even if they are not inheritable.

China are strong practice of cousin-cousin marriage but they noticed it is causing health effect, they banned the practice.

Genetic defect is a global problem no disputes but when it is getting too much in a particular society, there should be a way of controlling it either by banning the practice(incest) or creating more health care and awareness to reduce in passing anomalies genes to generations, i I'm very sure many Arabs don't even know the effect of incest, they just practice it because some holy ancient people practiced it.

Gene and genotype are some of the characteristics of life on this earth, without them, you wouldn't be here.

This is contradictory to Allah's creation, Allah created us from sand in one day, why do we need gene and genotype to live.

And when did you start believing in Allah (SWT)?!

Have i ever told you i don't believe in Allah(SWT)?

AlBaqir:


# You know our combo was just too much for the cave-thinking men to handle

# You have been tagged Shia already faah In their world whoever has an opposing ideas to theirs has become a Rafidha (rejecter).

# Several times, I remember, you and I have gone different direction in comments. They are very blind to that. In their fikr, once you oppose something, you are an enemy and must always act like one. They simply can't tolerate opposition.

Cave-men will always be cave-men.

sino and others are involving shia to my personality so that other cave-people and Innocent Muslims would think I'm shia Muslim, I will be hated. In fact I'm already seeing the hatred in 3D.

tintingz:
Since no one is unable able to answer what killed Prophet Muhammad (SA) children in INFANT, then something is not adding up.

Oga please tell me what kills them.

This is contradictory to Allah's creation, Allah created us from sand in one day, why do we need gene and genotype to live.

And your genetic defect theory is also contradiction to Allah's law on marriage. HE permit marriage between cousins. The same question goes to you: why do we need gene, genotype to live and understand cousins marriage should be avoided? We are made from sand why do we need genes to understand cousins marriage may lead to genetical disease?

Have i ever told you i don't believe in Allah(SWT)?

You did not but you did. Read what you said below.

tintingz:
shut up and stop being a religious bigot.

Yoruba people worship Olorun the God of all gods(orishas), they have divine revelation from the Gods.

Islamic scripture is bigger than any other scripture and yet it doesn't know the risk in incest?


Yeye.

isn't the green text an act of mocking Islam?

FriendChoice:



Oga please tell me what kills them.

I'm already an apostate to you guys according to a brother here, why should I answer a "stupid question" I asked? You want some sharia-men to appear in my house and behead me like sallah meat? No no no that question is stupid and blasphemy.

If non of you can't answer then why should an apostate like me answer it?

And your genetic defect theory is also contradiction to Allah's law on marriage. HE permit marriage between cousins. The same question goes to you: why do we need gene, genotype to live and understand cousins marriage should be avoided? We are made from sand why do we need genes to understand cousins marriage may lead to genetical disease?

If you are following a thread about "Islam and evolution" you will know the irony in my previous post.

You did not but you did. Read what you said below.

isn't the green text an act of mocking Islam?

Kindly go and read what religious bigotry means, remember I called you that when you said "Islam belief is bigger than Olorun".

I respect all Gods and beliefs, because we don't share same ideology doesn't mean I should sound bigotry and feel superior to other beliefs. I respect Allah, Yahweh, Zeus, Odin, Olorun, Brahma, Nuwa, Unkulunku and every other thousands of Gods.

I'm not mocking Islam, I only find many Islamic books to be fairytale like every other books.

You want me to believe Muhammad (SA) rode on flying horse called buraq to heaven yet you will go against the believe that Poseidon rode on a flying horse Pegasus to Olympus.

My ideology is different from your ideology. Kapish?

tintingz:
I'm already an apostate to you guys according to a brother here, why should I answer a "stupid question" I asked? You want some sharia-men to appear in my house and behead me like sallah meat? No no no that question is stupid and blasphemy. .

When you have no knowledge of the answer either. Tell us if you know.

If non of you can't answer then why should an apostate like me answer it?

same as above. You don't know the answer and you cannot give the answer, only to E-rant that nobody knows, no body knows...

If you are following a thread about "Islam and evolution" you will know the irony in my previous post.

I don't. So be straight and don't use irony in religious matter not everyone is reading that book.

Kindly go and read what religious bigotry means, remember I called you that when you said "Islam belief is bigger than Olorun".

You also called me Boko Haram talkless of bigot.

I respect all Gods and beliefs, because we don't share same ideology doesn't mean I should sound bigotry and feel superior to other beliefs. I respect Allah, Yahweh, Zeus, Odin, Olorun, Brahma, Nuwa, Unkulunku and every other thousands of Gods.

This is not respect, it's mockery. Respect doesn't means you will bash your own faith to respect other faith. To you Yehweh , Olurun, idols are as same position with Allah. This is what you called respect.

Qur'an understand respect better than you

Be be righteous and act justly towards those who worship another god Qur'an 60:8

I'm not mocking Islam, I only find many Islamic books to be fairytale like every other books.

Tales? Since the beginning of this thread what are we discussing on. Its the verse of the holy Qur'an concerning who and who you can marry.

Quran is tale to you. That even the creator of the Quran couldn't send down a revelation about cousins marriage as you said b4.

Thank God I never quote any hadith in our discussion b4 you call it da'if.

You want me to believe Muhammad (SA) rode on flying horse called buraq to heaven yet you will go against the believe that Poseidon rode on a flying horse Pegasus to Olympus.

My ideology is different from your ideology. Kapish?

When did we discuss this with you

FriendChoice:


When you have no knowledge of the answer either. Tell us if you know.



same as above. You don't know the answer and you cannot give the answer, only to E-rant that nobody knows, no body knows...

OK

I don't. So be straight and don't use irony in religious matter not everyone is reading that book.

I use irony everywhere.

You also called me Boko Haram talkless of bigot.

Even tho I didn't even mention your name when I said "no wonder we have boko haram" didn't I apologize?

This is not respect, it's mockery. Respect doesn't means you will bash your own faith to respect other faith. To you Yehweh , Olurun, idols are as same position with Allah. This is what you called respect.

Qur'an understand respect better than you

Be be righteous and act justly towards those who worship another god Qur'an 60:8

But acting superior to other people's belief is just?

Gods are Gods, I don't discriminate.

I dont give a damn about positions, I'm over that, arguing which God is the best like Arsenal vs Chelsea.

Yales? Since the beginning of this thread what are we discussing on. Its the verse of the holy Qur'an concerning who and who you can marry.]/quote]Are there no hadiths concerning cousin-cousin marriage?

I see cousin-cousin marriage as Arab culture thing.

[quote]Quran is tale to you. That even the creator of the Quran couldn't send down a revelation about cousins marriage as you said b4.

Are there no tales in the Quran?

Thank God I never quote any hadith in our discussion b4 you call it da'if.

Ok

When did we discuss this with you

When you said Islam belief is bigger than Olorun.

tintingz:
OK

I use irony everywhere.

Even tho I didn't even mention your name when I said "no wonder we have boko haram" didn't I apologize?

But acting superior to other people's belief is just?

Gods are Gods, I don't discriminate. dont give a damn about positions, I'm over that, arguing which God is the best like Arsenal vs Chelsea.

No! There is only 1 extraordinary, supernatural, most supreme God. That what's make you a Muslim. Thatx the basis and foundation of Kalimatush-shahada. (Islam)

There is no god except Allah. OR There is absolutely no deity worthy of worship except Allah.
Therefore your statement that "Gods are Gods. " is invalid because Allah has no equivalent: "Nor is there to Him any equivalent." [Qur'an 112:4]




Yes you may take my explanation lightly but Allah himself said so not me


ﺷَﻬِﺪَ ﺍﻟﻠَّﻪُ ﺃَﻧَّﻪُ ﻟَﺎ ﺇِﻟَٰﻪَ ﺇِﻟَّﺎ ﻫُﻮَ ﻭَﺍﻟْﻤَﻠَﺎﺋِﻜَﺔُ ﻭَﺃُﻭﻟُﻮ ﺍﻟْﻌِﻠْﻢِ ﻗَﺎﺋِﻤًﺎ ﺑِﺎﻟْﻘِﺴْﻂِ ۚ ﻟَﺎ ﺇِﻟَٰﻪَ ﺇِﻟَّﺎ ﻫُﻮَ ﺍﻟْﻌَﺰِﻳﺰُ ﺍﻟْﺤَﻜِﻴﻢ

Allah witnesses that there is no deity except Him, and [so do] the angels and those of knowledge - [that He is] maintaining [creation] in justice. There is no deity except Him, the Exalted in Might, the Wise. [Qur'an 3:18]

Are there no tales in the Quran?

You may see signs in the Qur'an and think they are stories or tales. They are signs you should learn from and you should not refer such as tales.


And When Our signs were being recited to them, they said, "We have already heard; if we wished, we could say the like of this; this is naught but the fairy-tales of the ancients. " [Qur'an 8:31] . You can read the next two verses that follow this.

When you said Islam belief is bigger than Olorun

Do you take too much garri? Are your eyes seeing wella? We never discus the below as you claim. please provide evidence of the post. Not even on this thread but my entire stay on Nairaland.

tintingz:

You want me to believe Muhammad (SA) rode on flying horse called buraq to heaven yet you will go against the believe that Poseidon rode on a flying horse Pegasus to Olympus.

My ideology is different from your ideology. Kapish?

FriendChoice:


No! There is only 1 extraordinary, supernatural, most supreme God. That what's make you a Muslim. Thatx the basis and foundation of Kalimatush-shahada. (Islam)

There is no god except Allah. OR There is absolutely no deity worthy of worship except Allah.
Therefore your statement that "Gods are Gods. " is invalid because Allah has no equivalent: "Nor is there to Him any equivalent." [Qur'an 112:4]




Yes you may take my explanation lightly but Allah himself said so not me


ﺷَﻬِﺪَ ﺍﻟﻠَّﻪُ ﺃَﻧَّﻪُ ﻟَﺎ ﺇِﻟَٰﻪَ ﺇِﻟَّﺎ ﻫُﻮَ ﻭَﺍﻟْﻤَﻠَﺎﺋِﻜَﺔُ ﻭَﺃُﻭﻟُﻮ ﺍﻟْﻌِﻠْﻢِ ﻗَﺎﺋِﻤًﺎ ﺑِﺎﻟْﻘِﺴْﻂِ ۚ ﻟَﺎ ﺇِﻟَٰﻪَ ﺇِﻟَّﺎ ﻫُﻮَ ﺍﻟْﻌَﺰِﻳﺰُ ﺍﻟْﺤَﻜِﻴﻢ

Allah witnesses that there is no deity except Him, and [so do] the angels and those of knowledge - [that He is] maintaining [creation] in justice. There is no deity except Him, the Exalted in Might, the Wise. [Qur'an 3:18]

This is what I'm saying in my previous post, arguing which God is greater and better than other Gods like Arsenal vs Chelsea fans do.

I'm over this endless argument and religious bully and you're only posting this because you were born in a Muslim family, assuming you were born in India or China your story will be different. You think you choose your belief? There are many things you didn't chose by yourself or by choice.

You may see signs in the Qur'an and think they are stories or tales. They are signs you should learn from and you should not refer such as tales.


And When Our signs were being recited to them, they said, "We have already heard; if we wished, we could say the like of this; this is naught but the fairy-tales of the ancients. " [Qur'an 8:31] . You can read the next two verses that follow this.

Fairytale is fairytale, do you agree Greek mythology to be signs or Yoruba mythology to be signs?

If you don't agree or accept then case close.

Do you take too much garri? Are your eyes seeing wella? We never discus the below as you claim. please provide evidence of the post. Not even on this thread but my entire stay on Nairaland.

Is like you don't grab things, what I posted was an example of how religious people think, just like what you're doing, we never discussed it but that's how people like you reason.

Prophet Muhammad (SA) rode on flying horse is real, powerful and miraculous but Poseidon rode on flying horse is fake and myth

^^I lie?,

tintingz:
This is what I'm saying in my previous post, arguing which God is greater and better than other Gods like Arsenal vs Chelsea fans do.

Please be careful of what you type. The supremacy and oneness of Allah is what All prophets of before and prophet Muhammad peace be upon them preach. one Allah against all other false gods is there message. They argue with the non believers. Now you're comparing them with arsenal and Chelsea fans. (Subhanallah)

I'm over this endless argument and religious bully and you're only posting this because you were born in a Muslim family, assuming you were born in India or China your story will be different. You think you choose your belief? There are many things you didn't chose by yourself or by choice.

Yes I do agree that I am a Muslim first because I was born in an Islamic family. Are there not those who were born in non-islamic family and later see the light in Islam?

Innal halali bayyinan wa innal haramu bayyinan. Show me any religion better than Islam, I will join it.

Fairytale is fairytale, do you agree Greek mythology to be signs or Yoruba mythology to be signs?

If you don't agree or accept then case close.

No sign is equal to Allah's signs.

Is like you don't grab things, what I posted was an example of how religious people think, just like what you're doing, we never discussed it but that's how people like you reason.

Prophet Muhammad (SA) rode on flying horse is real, powerful and miraculous but Poseidon rode on flying horse is fake and myth

^^I lie?,

That's not the discussion. Our discussion is cousins marriage. You can open new thread on that.

FriendChoice:


Please be careful of what you type. The supremacy and oneness of Allah is what All prophets of before and prophet Muhammad peace be upon them preach. one Allah against all other false gods is there message. They argue with the non believers. Now you're comparing them with arsenal and Chelsea fans. (Subhanallah)

Are you saying there are no other monotheism religion? There are many monotheism religion and Islam is just one of them.

Each religion will always argue with one another, each religion has it prophets and divine scriptures. Do you know you will go to hell according to other religion?

Yes I do agree that I am a Muslim first because I was born in an Islamic family. Are there not those who were born in non-islamic family and later see the light in Islam?

Innal halali bayyinan wa innal haramu bayyinan. Show me any religion better than Islam, I will join it.

Lol, as if there are no Muslims leaving Islam, the whole religious converts are even minority. Those that converted to another religion are courageous people because it is a hard move for them, thier choice is seen as wrong choice, do you know how family and friends will react negatively?
It reminds me of the response Dr. Zakir Naik gave if his children decide to leave Islam. I won't post it as what he said is no different from every other religious people.

No sign is equal to Allah's signs.

Same as other Gods.

That's not the discussion. Our discussion is cousins marriage. You can open new thread on that.

If I open a thread are you ready prove that Zeus, Odin, Obatala, Amadioha are not real?

tintingz:
Are you saying there are no other monotheism religion? There are many monotheism religion and Islam is just one of them.

Each religion will always argue with one another, each religion has it prophets and divine scriptures. Do you know you will go to hell according to other religion?

Not after that. I believe am talking to a Muslim.

Lol, as if there are no Muslims leaving Islam, the whole religious converts are even minority. Those that converted to another religion are courageous people because it is a hard move for them, thier choice is seen as wrong choice, do you know how family and friends will react negatively?
It reminds me of the response Dr. Zakir Naik gave if his children decide to leave Islam. I won't post it as what he said is no different from every other religious people.

Not interested in this.

Same as other Gods.

Do you believe in Allah 100℅ and Qur'an ℅ ? No person who believe in Islam will challenge what Allah says.
Allah himself said HE is not equal to false gods but tintingz have the audacity to say otherwise.

is it right for a Muslim to believe contrary to what Qur'an says ?

is He a Muslim who believe other gods are equal to Allah ?

If I open a thread are you ready prove that Zeus, Odin, Obatala, Amadioha are not real?

I don't know them talkless of proving they are real or not. You jump from this to this from that to that. I thought you're speaking on Prophet Muhammad isra'i wa mi'iraj in the previous post. Now its other god you're defending.

Subhanallah. When did things get this bad? Albaqir am so surprised you haven't cautioned tintingz for some disturbing utterances he has been making. Just because he is arguing with salafi or wahabi doesn't mean you would support him or keep quiet and let him carry on with that.

Tintingz you really should be careful with what you say, your statements make me wonder if you are still a Muslim (no offence intended). You initially started with criticising some ahadith and now you have turned to the Quran. and if you continue this path, I just pray it won't get to a point you would start to correct the Quran (nauzubillah min zalik)

We are Muslims, and if we truly know what being a Muslim is, we shouldn't be asking questions like " why did some of rasul's kids die at infant"


Please repent and cautious of what you say.


BTW where is Lexiconkabir and newnas?

FriendChoice:


Not after that. I believe am talking to a Muslim.




Not interested in this.

Do you believe in Allah 100℅ and Qur'an ℅ ? No person who believe in Islam will challenge what Allah says.
Allah himself said HE is not equal to false gods but tintingz have the audacity to say otherwise.

is it right for a Muslim to believe contrary to what Qur'an says ?

is He a Muslim who believe other gods are equal to Allah?

There is nothing like "false God or gods", every religion is claiming true God. There are thousands of creator in every beliefs I don't know why you feel superior and bully, do you want Yahweh to trow you in his hell? . Because you're Muslim or am a Muslim doesn't make us superior, that's just fallacy which many muslim terrorist believe in.

I've right to believe in anything I want, our ideology cannot be the same.

I don't know them talkless of proving they are real or not. You jump from this to this from that to that. I thought you're speaking on Prophet Muhammad isra'i wa mi'iraj in the previous post. Now its other god you're defending.

Lol, you don't know them and you call them false Gods? The way some people reason sef.

And NO I didn't jump from this to that, if you don't know Poseidon, he's a god in Greek mythology, he and other olympian gods rode on flying horses called Pegasus just like Prophet Muhammad (SA) rode on flying horse called buraq. I'm very sure you don't believe in former but believe in latter, now you said I should create a thread concerning this and I said you should be ready to prove these Gods are fake, where did i drift?

You should have said you don't know them before acting like jack bauer.

Kindly get books or surf the internet to know other people's beliefs and stop behaving like an ignorant, you can't even go for a debate with this your level of reasoning.

salaam alaykum @Udatso lexiconkabir = Abdelkabir = Aboo uthaymeen.

I think Newnas is busy with the madrasah and decided to leave the internet for sometime, this is what he told me the last time i asked him.

tintingz:





There is nothing like "false God or gods", every religion is claiming true God. There thousands of creator in every beliefs I don't know why you feel superior and bully, do you want Yahweh to trow you in his hell? . Because you're Muslim or am a Muslim doesn't make us superior, that's just fallacy which many muslim terrorist believe in.

I've right to believe in anything I want, our ideology cannot be the same.



Lol, you don't know them and you call them false Gods? The way some people reason sef.

And NO I didn't jump from this to that, if you don't know Poseidon, he's a god in Greek mythology, he and other olympian gods rode on flying horses called Pegasus just like Prophet Muhammad (SA) rode on flying horse called buraq. I'm very sure you don't believe in former but believe in latter, now you said I should create a thread concerning this and I said you should be ready to prove these Gods are fake, where did i drift?

You should have said you don't know them before acting like jack bauer.

Kindly get books or surf the internet to know other people's beliefs and stop behaving like an ignorant, you can't even go for a debate with this your level of reasoning.

Quoting verses of the Qur'an is useless to you so I won't say anything morethan the earlier stated.

udatso:
Subhanallah. When did things get this bad? Albaqir am so surprised you haven't cautioned tintingz for some disturbing utterances he has been making. Just because he is arguing with salafi or wahabi doesn't mean you would support him or keep quiet and let him carry on with that.

Tintingz you really should be careful with what you say, your statements make me wonder if you are still a Muslim (no offence intended). You initially started with criticising some ahadith and now you have turned to the Quran. and if you continue this path, I just pray it won't get to a point you would start to correct the Quran (nauzubillah min zalik)

We are Muslims, and if we truly know what being a Muslim is, we shouldn't be asking questions like " why did some of rasul's kids die at infant"


Please repent and cautious of what you say.


BTW where is Lexiconkabir and newnas?

Brother udatso and others, can you all please stop putting Albaqir to my matter? Albaqir does not even agree to many of what ive been saying, our ideology are different, he's shia I'm sect-free, because we act like pals doesnt make me a shia Muslim, i and Albaqir have had disagreement discussion in many past threads, but that doesn't make us enemies even Empiree.

I don't hate anybody here as long as you don't insult me,

I'm a Muslim, I still believe in Allah but I don't believe in fairy tales. Kapish?!

tintingz:
Brother udatso and others, can you all please stop putting Albaqir to my matter? Albaqir does not even agree to many of what ive been saying, our ideology are different, he's shia I'm sect-free, because we act like pals doesnt make me a shia Muslim, i and Albaqir have had disagreement discussion in many past threads.

I don't hate anybody here as long as you don't insult me,

I'm a Muslim, I still believe in Allah but I don't believe in fairy tales. Kapish?!

He is saying so because he believes you may listen to him. If you don't want Alba.qir perhaps be you may listen to Empiree

AbdelKabir:
salaam alaykum @Udatso lexiconkabir = Abdelkabir = Aboo uthaymeen.

I think Newnas is busy with the madrasah and decided to leave the internet for sometime, this is what he told me the last time i asked him.

Assalamualaykum brother, I have been away for a while now. I suspected this moniker but wanted to be sure