prinzeepule:


MTN

I have no choice but to give you the whole thing bcus there is no credit amount for intended credit of yours. You only got a question wrong and by my calculation, you should get 9k but there is no 9k credit available from my company here. Thats why you get the whole thing, in case you're wondering. Enjoy

Empiree:
I have no choice but to give you the whole thing bcus there is no credit amount for intended credit of yours. You only got a question wrong and by my calculation, you should get 9k but there is no 9k credit available from my company here. Thats why you get the whole thing, in case you're wondering. Enjoy

That is good brother!. More blessings to your company.

Empiree:
I have no choice but to give you the whole thing bcus there is no credit amount for intended credit of yours. You only got a question wrong and by my calculation, you should get 9k but there is no 9k credit available from my company here. Thats why you get the whole thing, in case you're wondering. Enjoy

May Allah reward you in folds. Thank you sir

I wish hkana speaks yoruba so you could watch this sheikh from 35mins where he talks about "zikr majoon"


"walantara ila kalimahanuna malamtakun fi zikr majnoona"


'You can not "see" Allah unless you become mad at chanting Allah's Names (zikr or dhikr)'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph5oYRaWDX8

This reminds me of a brother who called himself draggnet. He said "the so called friends of Allah are mad people". He was actually referring to Sheikh Jamiu Bulala(RA) in that thread

ILMU GHAIB MY OPINION

ilmul ghaib simply means knowledge of the unseen, and according to Quran only Allah have the knowledge of the unseen, as a mater of fact Allah made it clear in chapter 72 verse 26 that he alone has the knowledge of the unseen an he reveal his ghaib to Noone, not even Muhammad SAW

There's is been alot of argument between Muslims on dis topic. Some believe that no one has the knowledge of the unseen, while some believe that Allah reveal a little to the almuttakun or the extremely pious among humans.
Then there's some arguments that the alfa that uses diferent methods to predict or sees the future, or the gifted alfa are dragging the ilmul ghaib with Allah SWT. Some also believe that there are pious pple who can see God while some believe it's impossible.
The important question that we should all be asking is: what is ilmul ghaib? For me I believe that no one has ilmu ghaib except Allah an he shares it with no one. So what is really ilmul ghaib exactly.

ghaib means unseen, hidden, or secret. So ilmu ghaib also means a secret or hidden knowledge. Seeing the future is not ilmu ghaib because If u say someone who can see what's gonna happen b4 they happen has ilmul ghaib which means a hidden knowledge, then there's nothing hidden or secret about it anymore since it has been seen, Allah said he revealed his ghaib to no one. and dnt forget that what one see about the future might not happen sometimes, or wen it does happens it is nt exactly the way u see it but close, so it's more like prediction of the future not Not knowledge, but if u r getting dis feed from Allah theres high level of accuracy in ur prediction. For example a wether forecaster will say rain will fall today, sometimes it does, other times their forecast fail, because its a prediction, or d doctor dat tells a pregnant woman she will give birth in 5 days times, but she ended up given birth a month later. Some of this Sheikh are blessed with this gift too, sometimes ordinary people might just dream of an impending tragedy an they happen.
So there's no way they can be categorize as ilmul ghaib.

For some month's now especially during the ramadan when I meet pple I will already know alot about them even b4 they tell me about themselves, it's nt like I see anything about them it's like mind reading. for example i meet a new colleague now, while introducing myself, I just started thinking wow, this woman has gone through alot, she lost her husband, and a child recently, if only she knows so an so is her problem. While all this is going through my head, this woman is full of smile like a perfect human u will never guess wat she is going through. But I will later confirm all my thoughts about her to be true. Lately During the ramadan I was able to differentiate between thoughts. Is this ilmu GHAIB? NO if there is any word I can call it is "hikma" because its no coincidence that d more prayerful I become the more stronger.

My idea of ilmul ghaib is categorized in two, One is things we know exist but don't know when they will happen or what they will be like. Eg death an life after death, day of resurrection, Allahs appearance.

The second is things that we dnt knw exist but realize them when we die or on d day of resurrection.


WHATS YOUR THOUGHT OR CRITIQUE ABOUT THIS.

^^

About "seeing" God, i dont think you understand that yet. No human can see Allah with our naked eyes. The phrase is more like metaphorical but it is okay if you dont feel comfortable with it. Allah says in the Quran that vision comprehends Him not but He comprehends all visions.

However if someone says he actually sees God with these material eyes is a liar. Like self made "sheikh" Jabaru did in the 80s 90s. He blasphemed. But if Angel needs to communicate with waliy, a waliy may have to be in the state of "malakut" to be able to balance up

Confirming Authenticity Of Jalabi And Condemning The Charlatans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW8PKLbYDKc

Man will always be an enemy of what he didn't know! but BLESSED are those who have a mean spirit to accept the impossibility even when they haven't EXPERIENCE it.

Ilm ghaib is exclusive attribute of Allah (swt) and NO one have such knowledge EXCEPT what He share with chosen messengers. Q72:26-27. This link provides a sufficient evidences about what is and what is NOT ghaib. And proof that such may be revealed to some of HIS chosen servants.

http://www.alahazrat.net/islam/knowledge-of-unseen-(ilm-ul-gaib).php

However, NO One can see Allah with our ocular EYES, thats what Prophet Musa(as) asked for and he was denied. The Prophet Muhammed (saw) "saw" Allah NOT with his ocular EYES but EYES of the HEART during Miraj. Even, this is a sort of argument among the Sahaba, Aisha (ra) vehemently disputing it, while Ibn Abbas assert otherwise. This only stems from reference with which organ Holy Prophet(saw) sees Allah.

Now, is it possible for a believer to see Allah(saw). The answer is YES! in a dream, but relative to such person spiritual level, and is always a sort of GLAD TIDING. How do one figure out one his seeing Allah? definitely the DIVINE platform bring such AWE inspiring feelings and experience that will instill in once HEART the MAJESTY AND GRANDEUR OF ALLAH (swt). The experience of many pious predecessors testified to the possibility of seeing Allah (swt), and such GRACE still continue up till today.

I can't imagine people denying seeing holy prophet(saw) or think that is impossible. If one walk in the right way the RAMANIYAH and RAHIMIYYAH of Allah make it possible to see prophet (saw) NOT even once, but many times if one maintain his /her righteousness. These are facts! I pray Allah to continue to bestow such GRACE on us.

Also

Empiree:
Confirming Authenticity Of Jalabi And Condemning The Charlatans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW8PKLbYDKc

Is it English

emekaRaj:


Is it English

unfortunately no

LadunaI:

BLESSED are those who have a mean spirit to accept the impossibility even when they haven't EXPERIENCE it.

Where did u get this idea from

So we should believe everything becouse anything is possible. I dnt get explain further.

Lemme also make it clear that my stand dat no one can see Allah ta'ala is not a personal thing I concluded on my own. This are based on diferent books by Islamic scholars that I hav read, and I compare their evidence to pple who believe otherwise. And I made my my conclusion.

There was a story dat was share here about Jalalani or something like dat saw shaitan claiming to be God and he cast him out, an shaitan said he had deceived many with this trick but the shake has passed. so just imagine how many pious men he had decieved with the trick.
So it's better not to hav the mind set that we can see God or shaitan might visit u.

LadunaI:


However, NO One can see Allah with our ocular EYES, thats what Prophet Musa(as) asked for and he was denied. The Prophet Muhammed (saw) "saw" Allah NOT with his ocular EYES but EYES of the HEART during Miraj. Even, this is a sort of argument among the Sahaba, Aisha (ra) vehemently disputing it, while Ibn Abbas assert otherwise. This only stems from reference with which organ Holy Prophet(saw) sees Allah.

# The hadith alleged Nabi saw his Lord like you (common people) see "new moon."

Whatever such so-called sahih hadith says, its PURE lie. Quran clarify what was shown to Nabi on the night of Miraj/thus:

Surah Al-Isra, Verse 1:

"Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the Sacred Mosque to the remote mosque of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing."

# What do we understand by "Allah spoke to Nabi Musa"?
Note that Allah do not have a voice or body from which voice emanate (like vocal cord). Voice is a creative entity and it is one out of many creative entities which Allah used (and still using) to communicate with His servants.

LadunaI:

Now, is it possible for a believer to see Allah(saw). The answer is YES! in a dream, but relative to such person spiritual level, and is always a sort of GLAD TIDING. How do one figure out one his seeing Allah? definitely the DIVINE platform bring such AWE inspiring feelings and experience that will instill in once HEART the MAJESTY AND GRANDEUR OF ALLAH (swt). The experience of many pious predecessors testified to the possibility of seeing Allah (swt), and such GRACE still continue up till today.

# "Seeing" (i.e Feeling and experiencing spiritually) the proximity, the majesty and the grandeur of Allah via the heart (not the heart that pump blood) is different from "seeing Allah in a dream" or whatever context you try to insinuate.

# Seeing Nabi in dream can never be in the same context of spiritual feeling of the Majesty of the Lord. You can never and you will never, whether physically or spiritually, comprehend Allah let alone having a clue on His imagery. This is because NOTHING is like Him.

LadunaI:


BTW where is Sensei @ikupakuti? perhaps in hyper hibernate mood now.

Thanks.

A BELATED EID MUBARAK TO ALL!!!

MAY THE MOST GENEROUS ACCEPT OUR IBADAH AMEEN.

@LadunaI been around for a moment hows the general going ? Hope good.

@empiree that was very generous of you & also inspiring, may the good Lord replenish your pocket beyond measure. Nice 1

AlBaqir:


Surah Al-Isra, Verse 1:

"Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the Sacred Mosque to the remote mosque of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing."

Hmmmm you denounce a whole hadith(s) as a lie just because Quran said “our sign“. So, if his words, power etc be his signs why cant his countenance be ?

# Seeing Nabi in dream can never be in the same context of spiritual feeling of the Majesty of the Lord. You can never and you will never, whether physically or spiritually, comprehend Allah let alone having a clue on His imagery. This is because NOTHING is like Him.

So, what do you say concerning Q75:22-23 & also Q50:35 particularly its hadith from anas bn malik (ra) where JUBREEL (as) came to the holy prophet (saw) with a mirror....attabarani 6717 or are they also lies ?

No one can have a clue on his imagery you say ? So what image are the believers going to see in jannah or what image will the kufar be deny of in the hereafter ?

# There is nothing like unto him but he is like unto himself, right ? That there is nothing in his likeness does not negate his visuals it only means his image is unique to him only.

emekaRaj:


Where did u get this idea from

So we should believe everything becouse anything is possible. I dnt get explain further.

Lemme also make it clear that my stand dat no one can see Allah ta'ala is not a personal thing I concluded on my own. This are based on diferent books by Islamic scholars that I hav read, and I compare their evidence to pple who believe otherwise. And I made my my conclusion.

There was a story dat was share here about Jalalani or something like dat saw shaitan claiming to be God and he cast him out, an shaitan said he had deceived many with this trick but the shake has passed. so just imagine how many pious men he had decieved with the trick.
So it's better not to hav the mind set that we can see God or shaitan might visit u.

I got that from simple and humble life of Sahabas. They epitomized standards with which to succeed in this life. The early revelations, the meccan suras are basically those verses that pertaining to hereafter, hell, paradise etc matters that are purely of faith. They were successful because they accepted them all as true, because of their humble spirit. Whereas the kafir wondered how can one resurrect when his body has decayed!

Abu Bakr (ra) demonstrated this standard to the fullest, when he believed unquestionably the Isra and Miraj of holy prophet, and that earned him As Sidiq.

However, in contrast the contemporary scientists "failed" because they don't believe SOUL exist talk less of GOD. They failed woefully simply because they are NOT mean spirited to accept what they haven't experience.

When you opened this thread, there are faithfuls who believed in your story NOT that they have similar EXPERIENCE but because of above attribute. And they are some who come for your "head" simply because they can't fathomed your story. So, in the same vein, some have experience these sort of things under discussion, and BLESSED are those that don't forthrightly DENY their anecdotes but patient tow their path to experience SAME.

#Of course is everyone personal obligation to decide who/what to believe. The onus is on oneself, NO one can force anyone. There is NO COMPULSION in the matter of religion.

#Have you read further on Sheikh AbdQadir Jelani(ra) story, were he said he had true "Vision" of GOD? as against one you quoted?

AlBaqir:


# The hadith alleged Nabi saw his Lord like you (common people) see "new moon."

Whatever such so-called sahih hadith says, its PURE lie. Quran clarify what was shown to Nabi on the night of Miraj/thus:

Surah Al-Isra, Verse 1:

"Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the Sacred Mosque to the remote mosque of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing."

# What do we understand by "Allah spoke to Nabi Musa"?
Note that Allah do not have a voice or body from which voice emanate (like vocal cord). Voice is a creative entity and it is one out of many creative entities which Allah used (and still using) to communicate with His servants.




# "Seeing" (i.e Feeling and experiencing spiritually) the proximity, the majesty and the grandeur of Allah via the heart (not the heart that pump blood) is different from "seeing Allah in a dream" or whatever context you try to insinuate.

# Seeing Nabi in dream can never be in the same context of spiritual feeling of the Majesty of the Lord. You can never and you will never, whether physically or spiritually, comprehend Allah let alone having a clue on His imagery. This is because NOTHING is like Him.

Whaoo...so you use to read this thread? Thats cool. And as much I enjoyed reading most of you posts here in NL especially against the so celled "puritans", so also have great reservations for some of it.

In addition to what @ikupakuti has just said. How on earth would you expect us to AGREE or have any MEANINGFUL discussions on any of these knots when you outrightly rejected a whole sahih hadiths I firmly believed in? I read from your posts how repugnant those books are to you. But that's is your opinion and you are VERY much entitled to it. This is result any Muslims get when they fail to see the Kalimatul Shahada that unite us rather than systemic adherence to sect view that make others fellow Muslims worldviews looks like an ABERRATION.

You don't seem to read my last paragraph well. I don't equate seeing and feelings to be same. I only used the later to buttress the veracity of the former. You see these are the reasons MUTAZILA rejected the idea of "seeing" GOD all together in the hereafter, because they are trying to fit GODHOOD into some sort of imagery, and their reason can't comprehend that. But, the reality of the matter is that believers will see ALLAH in the hereafter, in what manner or how? our limited reasons may NOT be able to understand it now, and by extention in a dream especially for those that have NOT partake in it.

However, Allah is LIGHT of heaven and earth. "Seeing " him does NOT necessarily means seeing imagery, but more than often seeing the BLESSED LIGHT, which is only A REFLECTION of HIS GODHOOD anyway to the extent of the purity of the BEHOLDER (believer). That been said, you are entitle to whatever you believe in this case, because of our differences on my prima facies(sahih sitta).

Salaam!

LadunaI:



#Have you read further on Sheikh AbdQadir Jelani(ra) story, were he said he had "Vision" of GOD? as against one you quoted?

kindly share with us

Welcome back sheik kuti

ikupakuti:

A BELATED EID MUBARAK TO ALL!!!

MAY THE MOST GENEROUS ACCEPT OUR IBADAH AMEEN.

@LadunaI been around for a moment hows the general going ? Hope good.

@empiree that was very generous of you & also inspiring, may the good Lord replenish your pocket beyond measure. Nice 1

You are most welcome back sheikhuna! everything is good alhamdulilah.

ikupakuti:

Hmmmm you denounce a whole hadith(s) as a lie just because Quran said “our sign“. So, if his words, power etc be his signs why cant his countenance be ?

# Sign of Allah (Ayat Allah) is not is Self.

# And you cannot separate the Essence of Allah (Dhatillah) from His Siffat (attributes). It is only His creatures that acquire certain attributes at certain stage of life, and lose it at another stage.

ikupakuti:

So, what do you say concerning Q75:22-23 & also Q50:35 particularly its hadith from anas bn malik (ra) where JUBREEL (as) came to the holy prophet (saw) with a mirror....attabarani 6717 or are they also lies ?

No one can have a clue on his imagery you say ? So what image are the believers going to see in jannah or what image will the kufar be deny of in the hereafter ?

# There is nothing like unto him but he is like unto himself, right ? That there is nothing in his likeness does not negate his visuals it only means his image is unique to him only.

# Q. 75:22-23; "Looking unto their Lord".

I don't expect you to understand/interpret this verse verbally as it is. Quran have lots of figurative expressions. Surah Ahl imran verse 4 exposed two kinds of verses in the entire Qur'an

* Some are clear and simple (ayat muhkamat)

* Some are allegorical having condensed several meaning (ayat mutashabihat).

How do you interpret the later? You interpret via ayat Muhkamat for they are the "umm al-kitab (foundation of the Book)". A structure that deviate from its foundation will surely collapse. This is where interpretation of Quran by Quran itself have weight and more correct than using hadith.

# "Looking unto their Lord" simply means "expecting favour from their Lord". A Yoruba married man or woman who had not given birth, if ask, will instantly reply, "an wo OJU OLOHUN ni o". This is figurative expression which he/she fully understand to be " expecting Allah's divine favour".


# The hadith of Anas you talk about that Jubril brought a mirror.... Honestly I don't think I have read it before. Kindly quote it.


# SEEING GOD in the hereafter?!

Am afraid there are lots of adventurous hadith on this. In fact one hadith says the believers will recognised their Lord via a (physical) sign on His Leg. And remember an hadith which says hell will not be filled until Allah put his Leg on it. What about hadith that says our Lord used to come down from 7th heavens to the lowest heaven (LITERALLY)?!

You guys talked about Nabi Musa having wanted to see Allah. I do not intend to go deep into the story for there are lots of things people have misunderstood and misinterpreted about Nabi Musa, alaih salam. However, it is enough to quote Allah's reply to the demand of seeing Him.

Quran says, "LAN tarani - you will NEVER see me".

# In classical Arabic, the word "lan (never)" is not restricted to a moment or time. Its a word for all time.

There are lots to talk about on this issue of seeing Allah in the hereafter. I do not believe in it in short.

LadunaI:


Whaoo...so you use to read this thread? Thats cool. And as much I enjoyed reading most of you posts here in NL especially against the so celled "puritans", so also have great reservations for some of it.

# I think I preceded you on this thread if you go back unless you have a different monicker. Anyway, I do read this thread but not often.

# Obviously I have a score to settle with those "self declared righteous muslim". I used to be one of them decades ago before I changed course.

# As per my threads, I always try my best NEVER to impose my ideas upon anybody and I have NEVER publicly or secretly invited anyone to my ideology. My selling point is to expose what is being hidden from people. There are too much lies that had become " truth" over the course of time. In short, I never expect you or anybody to agree 100% with my submissions. If you do, then you don't know what you are doing. What I however do stressed for people around me is that they should be sincere in their research and never let their love for something blind their inner eyes and conscience from the truth. Truth is the most difficult entity to accept. Falsehood is very easy to embrace. Imagine Nabi Noah who preached for 950 years yet it was handful that believed in him.

LadunaI:

In addition to what @ikupakuti has just said. How on earth would you expect us to AGREE or have any MEANINGFUL discussions on any of these knots when you outrightly rejected a whole sahih hadiths I firmly believed in? I read from your posts how repugnant those books are to you. But that's is your opinion and you are VERY much entitled to it.

# Once an hadith is capped "sahih", even if its blatantly contradict the Quran, people go extreme to strike a balance or even bend the Quran to agree with the so-called hadith as if putting it aside or not believing it, is a sin. I am not an hadith antagonist for if I do that I will become a kafir outrightly. However, am always extra careful when it comes to these ahadith. The fact that an hadith is tagged "weak" might not necessarily make it weak. In fact it might truthfully be authentic than the so-called authentic. And the fact another is tagged "sahih", doesn't make it sahih outrightly. And no doubt scholars of ahadith have done their best in grading ahadith based on available materials at their disposal. However, some deliberately graded hadith outside the cannons of grading. Some for political, sectarian, racial etc reasons.


# The truth is both major schools of Islamic sect have plenty upon plenty of fabricated ahadith as they have sahih/hasan hadiths. All these books of ahadith, none of it was ever endorsed by any sahabi not to mention Nabi. Interestingly, Nabi instructed a sahabi to be written down WHATEVER he heard from him (whether in a state of happiness or sadness) because nothing but truth will ever come out of his mouth. What happened after Nabi's demise? The first Khalipha collected all written ahadith and burnt them to ashes. The second and the third followed suit and even ruled to punish whoever relate or transmit hadith.


Sahih Bukhari for example was compiled 150 years after Imam Bukhari's demise himself and it only had 53 pages. What do we have today? 10-13 volumes with thousands of ahadith. Haba! And people have been forced to believe it is an holy book after Quran as if Nabi himself endorsed it. I have a thread opened on this and challenge ANYBODY to prove me wrong that Imam Bukhari was the author of that popular sahih Bukhari.

# Unfortunately, you yourself misinterpreted my submission on this subject. I did not reject Sunni books of ahadith especially Bukhari and Muslim. What I rejected was given those two books 100% authenticity and accuracy. In line with Sunni ilm rijal, sahih Bukhari is authentic 100% ONLY in its sanad (chain of transmission). But that NEVER make it authentic in respect to matn (content).

LadunaI:

This is result any Muslims get when they fail to see the Kalimatul Shahada that unite us rather than systemic adherence to sect view that make others fellow Muslims worldviews looks like an ABERRATION.

# Please try to understand certain facts:

1. Unity of Muslims is different from having difference of opinion on certain matters. Even within Sunni, shia, Sufi themselves, there are subsects with difference of opinion to the extent that these subsects within a sect see themselves as enemies.

What Qur'an enjoyed is unity under common terms while putting aside our differences. But how will this work if some party declared the other Kuffar and never ready to work with them? Jordan and Iran, for example, have grown beyond sectarianism. Sunni and Shia lived in peace in these countries. In fact, I remembered when Ayatullah Sayed Kamal al-Haydari started a programme on one of Iranian TV about the first Sunni Khalifah, he hardly started the programme before the government banned it.

Zahiran (apparently) we should unite ourselves with what bound us together. Nabi knew the Munafiqun from amongst his sahabah as they knew themselves yet Nabi never exposed and castigated them for they were still Muslims. However, anyone that wishes to research deeper in Islamic differences of opinion or views has a right to do so.


2. Whenever you guys try to put accusing finger upon those that discuss religious differences, you hate exposing the fact that Sahabah laid the foundation of differences, antagonism, hatred, rebellion, war, betrayal, killing etc.

I am of the opinion that if we do not treat the root cause of a disease, there is no way it can be healed.

LadunaI:


You don't seem to read my last paragraph well. I don't equate seeing and feelings to be same. I only used the later to buttress the veracity of the former. You see these are the reasons MUTAZILA rejected the idea of "seeing" GOD all together in the hereafter, because they are trying to fit GODHOOD into some sort of imagery, and their reason can't comprehend that.

But, the reality of the matter is that believers will see ALLAH in the hereafter, in what manner or how? our limited reasons may NOT be able to understand it now, and by extention in a dream especially for those that have NOT partake in it.

# Mu'tazila are not stupid not to think that our reason faculties are limited and cannot comprehend God 100%. And the fact that human will be recreated in Qiyamat making us more unique. So you expect them (the mutazila) to think along this lines before making their conclusion and belief firm.

# Imam Ali, alaih salam, was once asked, "do you see God?" And he replied, "How can I worship whom I cannot see?!. He can never be seen by this eyes but by the inner eyes".

What does it mean by "seeing God by inner eyes"? This is a separate discussion on its own.

# As per seeing God in Qiyamat, I had briefly talked about it in my reply to hajj ikupakuti. Honestly its another separate subject on its own. The fact however is it is being believed to be literal which is not.

LadunaI:


However, Allah is LIGHT of heaven and earth. "Seeing " him does NOT necessarily means seeing imagery, but more than often seeing the BLESSED LIGHT, which is only A REFLECTION of HIS GODHOOD anyway to the extent of the purity of the BEHOLDER (believer). That been said, you are entitle to whatever you believe in this case, because of our differences on my prima facies(sahih sitta).

Salaam!

# When Quran says, "Allahu nuru samawati wal ard - Allah is the Light of heaven and earth", what does it mean? Just like "Qur'siyy (chair), Ar'sh (throne), hands and face of Allah". What does all these mean? Am afraid, using certain ahadith to rationalize or interpret this figurative expression into literary meaning will deviate one from the right course.


* Quran says, "... through it (Quran), many have erred, and no one erred except transgressor"

* "We have revealed this Quran simple to comprehend. Is there anyone who will reflect?"

* "Glory be to Him far from what they ascribed Him to...."

@ LadunaI


Good to know u got it from this noble men, and I also agree they epitomize d standard with wich to succeed in life.
So why did u choose to believe something that these noble men stood against, I think we can all agree that non of them had ever claimed to hav seen God wether through heart or wateva. And u can also agree with me that with the standard that this men set, no one after prophet Muhammad would hav been in a better position to experience this.

You also said the sahabas r.a were successful because they accept maters that purely of fate. No doubt about this.
But does that mean we should believe wateva we hear without analyzing with Quran and hadith, if so then lemme direct u to a thread where majority of Christians their claim to hav seen God, same describtion that some alfa claim to hav seen, perhaps u might also believe them. If u have a lot of Christian friends, u will knw that they dream of seeing God all the time and its d same white illumination from the sky talking to them. Should I also believe them too. The scholars of Shia, izalla, wahabis, Tijjaniya etc. all hav diferent views in Islam, should I also believe all of them. Allah ta'ala said it doesn't befiet him to communicate directly with his slaves except through his agent, I think dats very clear.

On the issue of scientists nt believing in God, if we r to use ur own standard of believing everything, which of the gods do u expect them to believe in now, out of hundreds of Religion in the world, Do u tink it will automatically be islam?

On, When I opened this thread, wen i opened the thread I wasn't looking for who to believe me or not, I think if my plan was to look for who will believe me, I dnt tink I would hav d gut to open this thread, because am well conversant with the nairaland Muslims and their ruthless way of dismissing everything. D main reason was to connect with a Muslim who has d same experience as me so we can share an learn more, its right their u can go back and read it again I haven't modified it. Then when Kuti an empire came, they weren't experienced but they hav d knowledge, tho Empire had experience with his father. I never argued with them I ask questions like everyone else, because I believe nobody has full knowledge i can always learn even from someone who u tink knows nothing. U can also scroll back to wen I became a student in this thread, But dat doesn't mean I dnt hav a belief I held strongly to. So @ LadunaI dnt always bring "I open d thread", as if becouse I opened the thread I should believe anything anyone says in here.
With my experience I think i should be among those who should believe in seeing God, but that's not the way I reason, I gathered evidence and use the small wisdom God gave me to make my decision.

This issue can go on an on, but it won't benefit anyone to believe we can see Allah.

I particularly choose not to believe becouse based on my experience I know it won't benefit me to believe such. The last time an alfa try to make a description of angels to me Shaitan came in that described form pretending and trying to trick me. But God gave me d wisdom to knw. So imagine me with this small faith wey I get, come believe say I fit see God. I fear nothing more than going to HELL abeg oo

I will post a story I read on how shaitan decieve one of the sahaba. LOL

AlBaqir:



# Please try to understand certain facts:

1. Unity of Muslims is different from having difference of opinion on certain matters. Even within Sunni, shia, Sufi themselves, there are subsects with difference of opinion to the extent that these subsects within a sect see themselves as enemies.



# Imam Ali, alaih salam, was once asked, "do you see God?" And he replied, "How can I worship whom I cannot see?!. He can never be seen by this eyes but by the inner eyes".

What does it mean by "seeing God by inner eyes"? This is a separate discussion on its own.

Thanks, I didn't expect less rejoinder from you as you have wrote up there. But, from all your replies, the above quoted seems to me the main issue I will like to comment on further, so as to NOT DIGRESS from the main subject of discussion.

#1 I don't like having serious argument so to say with any contemporary Muslims, but only try to air my opinion WITHOUT necessarily attacking their persona or their source. You VEHEMENTLY denied the sahih hadith as PURE lies!, perhaps you modified later to be "some" of hadith in it so to say, just because it NOT in line with your own "interpretation" of Qur'an. What inform you that you are correct with your own interpretations?

There is decorum in airing your view POLITELY without necessarily making fuss out the source other belief in. Can any Christians or Jew come and rubbish Qur'an (God forbid) as apocryphal, and still tell me is only expressing is opinion?

Whenever I think deeply about the extent of DIVIDEs of early Muslims even despite their righteousness, then I cannot help but came to conclusion that their is LITTLE "hope" for later Muslims as regards their differences. That is why I stay OUT completely from such UNFRUITFUL and of little to gain efforts in such discussions or arguments unless in the BEST manners.

#2 If hadrat Ali (ra) can made that CATEGORICALLY statement about "seeing" Allah WHY are you making lengthy argument where there is NONE? irrespective of how you would like to interpret that. Because that the same premise I said earlier on one can see Allah (through EYES of the HEART)without NECESSARILY going to details of HOW which might open up another line for criticism for the DOUBTERS.

So pls tell me if hadrat Ali (ra) can not worship Allah without that he seeing HIM with his inner eyes, what would be the STATE OF RASULLAH in this CONTEXT? That's why I said earlier that the TESTIMONY of pious predecessors furnishes proofs for the theme of our discussion.

Salaam!

Tlake:


kindly share with us

Welcome back sheik kuti

I will share it as soon as I get it handy bro.

Thanks.

LadunaI:



#1 I don't like having serious argument so to say with any contemporary Muslims, but only try to air my opinion WITHOUT necessarily attacking their persona or their source. You VEHEMENTLY denied the sahih hadith as PURE lies!, perhaps you modified later to be "some" of hadith in it so to say, just because it NOT in line with your own "interpretation" of Qur'an. What inform you that you are correct with your own interpretations?

# It seem to me you are mixing up two things here.

1. The context where I declare A HADITH pure lie is the context of "Nabi saw God in laylat Israel wal miraj". Hence, I quoted an ayah out of many where Allah says, " We showed him OUR SIGNS".

* Quran says Nabi ONLY saw AYAT (SIGNS), hadith says he saw the LORD, Himself.

2. You brought out issue of me rejecting Sunni books of hadith. Here I cautioned you and let you realize my submission clearly. This is where I used "some hadiths" are authentic while "some" are outright fake.


You have mixed the two context together as I can deduced from the underlined. You even accused me of "modified later".

LadunaI:


Whenever I think deeply about the extent of DIVIDEs of early Muslims even despite their righteousness, then I cannot help but came to conclusion that their is LITTLE "hope" for later Muslims as regards their differences. That is why I stay OUT completely from such UNFRUITFUL and of little to gain efforts in such discussions or arguments unless in the BEST manners.

# Despite their righteousness?! You mean ALL of them were righteous despite cursing themselves, killing and murdering themselves, with such a deep hatred and rebellion against each other?

Please let's such unquantified expression usually strike my heart cold. If you do not wish to discuss it, better leave it.

LadunaI:


#2 If hadrat Ali (ra) can made that CATEGORICALLY statement about "seeing" Allah WHY are you making lengthy argument where there is NONE? irrespective of how you would like to interpret that. Because that the same premise I said earlier on one can see Allah (through EYES of the HEART)without NECESSARILY going to details of HOW which might open up another line for criticism for the DOUBTERS.

So pls tell me if hadrat Ali (ra) can not worship Allah without that he seeing HIM with his inner eyes, what would be the STATE OF RASULLAH in this CONTEXT? That's why I said earlier that the TESTIMONY of pious predecessors furnishes proofs for the theme of our discussion.

Salaam!

# I bet you haven't put Sunni ahadith into full perspective. Besides you have claimed Allah can be seen in a dream.


# Narrated Jarir:

We were sitting with the Prophet and he looked at the
moon on the night of the full-moon and said, "You people
will see your Lord as you see this full moon, and you will
have no trouble in seeing Him, so if you can avoid missing
(through sleep or business, etc.) a prayer before sunrise
(Fajr) and a prayer before sunset (Asr) you must do
so.


# Narrated Jarir bin ‘Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "You will definitely see your Lord with
your own eyes."

Those like Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal claimed Allah can be seen in this world and in dream based their argument on other traditions such as:

The Prophet (S.A.W.) said: "I saw my Lord in the shape of a young man who had abundant/long hairs."


# No wonder we have hadith of Abu Hurairah saying, "Allah created Adam in His image...". And a person of Sheik Ibn Taymiyyah ruling that attributes of God in the Bible is correct and accurate.


* " No vision (whether physical, spiritual, or the new form of Qiyamat) can comprehend or see Him, but He comprehend and see all visions". That is Quran. Parentheses are mine.

Tlake:

kindly share with us
Welcome back kuti

Slm, bro thx.

LadunaI:

You are most welcome back sheikhuna! everything is good alhamdulilah.

Thanks ya SAYYIDI!

Adam (as) was in Paradise.
Shaytān, the devil, came and whispered in his ears. As a result of that, Allāh was unhappy with him and sent him to earth as punishment. Why, if the devil can whisper in the ears of Adam (as) can he not whisper in our ears? He does not need to whisper, it is so easy.
They say about the very famous
walī Bayāzīd al-Bistāmī – who was even praised by the one who described and praised tasawwuf according to his own understanding, the founder of the ideology of Wahabism before Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab – Ibn Taymiyya, who mentioned
Bayāzīd Bistāmī in his two volumes of his Majma`a fatāwa ,
at-tasawwuf and ` ilm as-sulūk . He praised him and said he was a walī . Given his attitude to many things in Islam, it was extraordinary for him to say that.
He was on hajj and he went to Madina for zīyāra. He is a walī , meaning he could see with his spiritual eyes. So he saw Shaytān, the devil, running after people. That is a story from the biography of Sayyidinā
Bayāzīd.
He saw Iblīs and said, “What are you doing here? You are a cursed one.” Iblīs replied, “I am busy.” He asked, “With what are you busy?”
Iblīs said, “Many of the visitors here are so far from perfect that I just need to whisper in their ears. But it is more simple, I don’t need to even whisper.” Bayāzīd said, “And what are you doing?” Iblīs replied, “I am riding on them. I put a bridle on them and ride them.”
So something came to the heart of
Bayāzīd. Even a walī is not
ma`sūm . He may fall into sins, but sins not done intentionally. He might do them by mistake and at least you excuse him from what he falls into. No one is ma`sūm except the Prophet (s). Even the Sahāba were not ma`sūm .
So a little bit of pride came to his heart. He said, “Yā Iblīs! Do you also have a bridle for me?” What he meant was, “You cannot dare to approach me.” He said, “Yā
Bayāzīd. For you I don’t even need a bridle. I will ride you without one.” Because that one word of his dropped Bayāzīd, causing him to fall into the weakness of the ego, causing distance to him from the light of the moon. Everything must be balanced. If that smallest hafwa, in Arabic, that stumble, caused him to fall into such a grave position, what then do you think about us?
So Iblīs left and Bayāzīd cursed him. After one or two weeks, it began raining very hard in Madina, `alā sākinihā afdal as-
salāt was-salām . And the streets there do not absorb the rain. And there is hikmat - wisdom - in that. People are in need of water, and what is not absorbed people collect.
It was raining, raining and raining and the streets were flooded. People were everywhere unable to cross the streets or walk. And old people men, women, etc. were there not knowing what to do.
There was an old man among them, walking with a stick, trying to walk through that heavy flood, and he was about to die. And the people were afraid to go and help him as it was a dangerous situation - he might fall and drown. So who gave himself up? Awlīyā’ullāh -
Bayāzīd. He said, “Yā ākhī what is your problem?” The old man said, “I am afraid to fall in the flood and drown.” Bayāzīd said, “Come and I will carry you.” He carried him very far through the flooded streets and deposited him safely on dry ground. Then the man said, “Ah Bayāzīd, did I not tell you I will ride you without a bridle?”
The meaning of that story is that
Iblīs is after us, at all times and places. That means every moment, you must be awake.
You are awake during the daylight. And at night you must seclude yourself. And if you want to move, you must seek a light.

http://www.sunnah.org/tafsir/ash-shams_files/ash_Shams_2.htm

@albaqir

Lols you have this penchant for evading some apposite points & addressing those less pertinent. I dont know if its mere oversight or a deliberate act.


#This is an AQEEDAH issue so I do not expect you to agree. Your last paragraph up there sums up your position on this issue...that you do not believe one would see God in next life which is the opinion of the shi‘a & the MU‘TAZILA, a position which the SUNNI do not subscribe to as they have enough HADITHS & VS to back their stance. So, theres no need for quoting the hadith from attabarani (muslim also related such) since you wont believe them.

IMAM SHAFI‘I, ABU HANIFA, AHMAD IBN HANBAL including all the SAHABA none ever deny the ‘seeing‘ of God with the hearts, in dream & in the next life. ABU HANEEFA said he saw him 99x , IMAM HANBAL saw & asked him about the best deed to get closer to him...anecdotes abound as such from sahabas & tabeen, but we do not need to continue going in circles as its AQEEDAH related.

#I was going to quote IMAM ALI (ra) thank God you are aware of his stance. Can you pls elaborate on his stance ?

#For learning sake, I‘ll like to ask you some questions...

#In Q7:143 God said he manifested on the rock when MUSA sought his sight...

1-why didnt he manifest to MUSA why to the rock ?

2-If a camera were to be fixed on that rock, would it have captured the manifested image or there would have been no image to capture ?

3-MUSA had his eyes fixed on that rock anticipating a sight of God, immediately it happened he fainted while the rock exploded, did he see anything before he fainted/died or while dead ?

4-Was MUSA(as a nibiyy) ignorant of the impossibility of seeing God while alive that made him seek such in the first place ?

5-While did the rock explode & MUSA died ? These are the questions I‘ve being seeking answers to, if you‘ve got any explanation pls do.

@emekaraj

What gave you the impression that we have no experience of spirituality but its knowledge ? And where did its knowledge came from ? So because people didnt bother to open thread to start yapping about how they saw this & did that, made you think your case is a unique one right ? Can you even defend your condition with the kitab & sunnah ? And you are calling some non experienced ? How many ayah or hadith did you tabled to defend your nightmares ?

What is there in having visions of fighting witches/demons ? What is the difference between you & those you are fighting in terms of spirituality ? Do you even know a dog sees more than you do ? A common donkey as daft as it is sees better even a carrion vulture so whats new ?

You need to get off your high horse & calm the eff down!
Go and learn basic Islamic sciences & stop shooting faux pas all over the place & dont forget to also learn adab as well as your post reeks of UJUB.
You dont even know those you are chatting with personally except what they chose to reveal about themselves & you are here making baseless assumptions.

Whats going on here?. This is very simple issue. Well, it is safe approach to say WE CAN NOT see Allah in whatever way we think. I think this is emekaraj's approach. But i dont have problems with someone saying "seeing Allah in the heart". I understand what it means.

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1693&Itemid=109


Question, what is a new born baby looking at in different directions even if you bring him or her closer to get your attention?. They keep looking sideways even if you scream to get them to focus?. This usually happens from day 1 through 40 to 60 days.

ikupakuti:



@em.piree that was very generous of you & also inspiring, may the good Lord replenish your pocket beyond measure. Nice 1

Na'am JazakaAllahu khayran. And we ask Allah to accept our Ramadan struggles.


I repeat,

Empiree:



"walantara ila kalimahanuna malamtakun fi zikr majnoona"


'You can not "see" Allah unless you become mad at chanting Allah's Names (zikr or dhikr)'