Alhajiemeritus:
Pm not working.

Number is 08108169276

ok, noted.

Empiree:
I understand. But you see, as for those who earn less credit like say 10k or below, if that's converted to cash alert, i don't think that's much. It takes one transaction to spend it all (my opinion). But most likely 10k credit alert is more valuable in my opinion. That's my first excuse.

Second reason is rather kept to myself

That's in Ur own opinion and in ours cash alert would have been the best.
Imagine giving a 5k cash to a student That would be massive

lanrexlan:



Please kindly provide reference(s) for that statement of Nabi Ibrahim. Even if Allah has created the actions of man, does it simply translates to the fact that everything (good or bad) is a creation of Allah? Doesn't that mean theft, robbery or lying are creations of Allah? Even if we are to agree that plot of women is a creation (which you haven't proven), is it mightier than the plot of Allah? Allah says in Surah Al-Imran 3:5 "They planned, Allah plan and Allah is the best of planners.

@bolded

Allah is not ominipotent, ominiscience aftar all, bro you know we have discussed something similar to this before which you shy away from discussing further.

There's a paradox that says: "Could God create a stone so heavy he could not lift it"?

tintingz:
@bolded

Allah is not ominipotent, ominiscience aftar all, bro you know we have discussed something similar to this before which you shy away from discussing further.

There's a paradox that says: "Could God create a stone so heavy he could not lift it"?

Firstly, I never shy away from discussing it further with you. I have clearly made known my points. It is not a must you agree with me before we can conclude we have closed the chapter on that. (Moreover, I don't have time repeating the same arguments all over again)


Secondly, what we discussed on Whatsapp was "Where do evil comes from?" You gave your arguments and I gave my arguments while giving various similitude to simplify the arguments for you. (If you want me to post our discussion, I can post for all to see).


Thirdly, what you quoted above was simply taking about the actions of man. I was simply asking the brother a question of how actions of a man can be a creation of Allah(and he can't prove it). Man is solely responsible for his actions and there is no verse in the Qur'an that says that Allah created the actions of a man. Actions are borne out of freewill Allah given to man and man is solely responsible for his actions. Allah knowing the actions of a man beforehand is different from Allah creating man and his actions.(I clarified that on Whatsapp). I never discussed the issue of actions of man with you.


Fourthly, you are fond of twisting the similitude I gave as examples most times. I remembered that you said "Nobody would put you in hell fire if you failed in school" when I was simply giving you a similitude to make you see that there's a punishment for failing tests in school and similarly there is a punishment for failing the test of life. You made it into direct comparison with your statement.


Fifthly, you find it difficult to agree with someone even if the proofs are glaring to your eyes. Instead, you twist and shift poles. I remembered on that thread I opened for your sake "What's wrong with Tintingz?" After I gave you scientific proofs that were found in the Qur'an and scientists who agreed to it, you said that the scientists were simply trying to please the Arabs! These are people that you don't possess a quarter of the knowledge they possess and the certificates they possess (Sorry if I sound offensive).

On that same thread, I gave you the new scientific finding of giving a new child chewed dates which the prophet has prescribed hundreds of years ago. Instead of you to agree with it, even after the proof (link to the findings) given, you went on to ask another question; "Do you know that giving sugary foods to new baby is harmful?" is all what you mumbled.

But one thing that's common to most acclaimed atheists like yourself, is that whenever you think you have found the so-called freedom in your atheism, you feel some hidden knowledge of everything has been given to you. It is funny seriously.

Sixthly, dear brother, you bite more than you can chew. You barely understand the concept of a thing before jumping on another. Moreover, you are found of asking questions in question. In all candour, with this style, one can barely achieve anything from a discussion cos it would have deviated from the main purpose and one won't have finished a discussion while starting another one.


I pray that Allah grant you guidance but guidance is only for the sincere and truthful ones. Salaam

lanrexlan:
Firstly, I never shy away from discussing it further with you. I have clearly made known my points. It is not a must you agree with me before we can conclude we have closed the chapter on that. (Moreover, I don't have time repeating the same arguments all over again)


Secondly, what we discussed on Whatsapp was "Where do evil comes from?" You gave your arguments and I gave my arguments while giving various similitude to simplify the arguments for you. (If you want me to post our discussion, I can post for all to see).


Thirdly, what you quoted above was simply taking about the actions of man. I was simply asking the brother a question of how actions of a man can be a creation of Allah(and he can't prove it). Man is solely responsible for his actions and there is no verse in the Qur'an that says that Allah created the actions of a man. Actions are borne out of freewill Allah given to man and man is solely responsible for his actions. Allah knowing the actions of a man beforehand is different from Allah creating man and his actions.(I clarified that on Whatsapp). I never discussed the issue of actions of man with you.


Fourthly, you are fond of twisting the similitude I gave as examples most times. I remembered that you said "Nobody would put you in hell fire if you failed in school" when I was simply giving you a similitude to make you see that there's a punishment for failing tests in school and similarly there is a punishment for failing the test of life. You made it into direct comparison with your statement.


Fifthly, you find it difficult to agree with someone even if the proofs are glaring to your eyes. Instead, you twist and shift poles. I remembered on that thread I opened for your sake "What's wrong with Tintingz?" After I gave you scientific proofs that were found in the Qur'an and scientists who agreed to it, you said that the scientists were simply trying to please the Arabs! These are people that you don't possess a quarter of the knowledge they possess and the certificates they possess (Sorry if I sound offensive).

On that same thread, I gave you the new scientific finding of giving a new child chewed dates which the prophet has prescribed hundreds of years ago. Instead of you to agree with it, even after the proof (link to the findings) given, you went on to ask another question; "Do you know that giving sugary foods to new baby is harmful?" is all what you mumbled.

But one thing that's common to most acclaimed atheists like yourself, is that whenever you think you have found the so-called freedom in your atheism, you feel some hidden knowledge of everything has been given to you. It is funny seriously.

Sixthly, dear brother, you bite more than you can chew. You barely understand the concept of a thing before jumping on another. Moreover, you are found of asking questions in question. In all candour, with this style, one can barely achieve anything from a discussion cos it would have deviated from the main purpose and one won't have finished a discussion while starting another one.


I pray that Allah grant you guidance but guidance is only for the sincere and truthful ones. Salaam

Very well said.

You need to understand his psychology.
1. He can’t agree with you even if it’s glaring because doing so would make him question his beliefs (atheism) consciously or unconsciously.

2. he would need to shift post and confuse similitudes in order to justify and make himself believe his atheistic beliefs are true.

3. Even before his atheism that he suddenly thinks he is intelligent, tintingz had mediocre knowledge and that hasn’t changed irrespective of all the atheistic websites or forums or videos he listens too. He is still mediocre even if he thinks otherwise. And yes I know there are very intelligent atheists.

4. He isn’t arguing with you to seek for clarity or understanding, he is arguing to justify his beliefs and you can’t successfully argue with someone who has that goal in mind.

So why bother

lanrexlan:
Firstly, I never shy away from discussing it further with you. I have clearly made known my points. It is not a must you agree with me before we can conclude we have closed the chapter on that. (Moreover, I don't have time repeating the same arguments all over again).

Nah, we didn't conclude on anything, Instead you said you will respond to the rest of my post, since then I didn't see the response.

Secondly, what we discussed on Whatsapp was "Where do evil comes from?" You gave your arguments and I gave my arguments while giving various similitude to simplify the arguments for you. (If you want me to post our discussion, I can post for all to see).

And I pointed out the absurdity in your argument.

Thirdly, what you quoted above was simply taking about the actions of man. I was simply asking the brother a question of how actions of a man can be a creation of Allah(and he can't prove it). Man is solely responsible for his actions and there is no verse in the Qur'an that says that Allah created the actions of a man. Actions are borne out of freewill Allah given to man and man is solely responsible for his actions. Allah knowing the actions of a man beforehand is different from Allah creating man and his actions.(I clarified that on Whatsapp). I never discussed the issue of actions of man with you.

Allah is the creator of everything, he knows everything, he has predestined everything(it's in the Quran), I pointed out the problems of "freewill" and if Allah knows everything.

I gave two analogy on argument of evil,

- If a president has all power to stop terrorists but chose not to, what should we call the president?

- If a mother watch her baby crawl to where there are drugs and the baby swallow the drugs, who will the court blame?

I asked someone, why is God angry and throwing people inside hell when he knows these things will happen in the future, why can't God prevent all these from happening in the beginning?

If humans actions is not God creation, then where does it come from, God didn't create everything and have control over everything after all.

The ominipotent paradox, self-contradictory is something you guys refuse to accept.

Fourthly, you are fond of twisting the similitude I gave as examples most times. I remembered that you said "Nobody would put you in hell fire if you failed in school" when I was simply giving you a similitude to make you see that there's a punishment for failing tests in school and similarly there is a punishment for failing the test of life. You made it into direct comparison with your statement.

Failing test in school is not an eternal cruel purnishment, one can simply re-write the exam and move on and secondly there are many students that prepared and performed well in thier exam but fail, there are students bribing teachers to pass, this school exam thing is not a good analogy, there are problems in it.

And don't forget Islam is not the only existing religion, there are other religions and religious-irreligious people that are good, will Allah throw over billions of people in hell?

Fifthly, you find it difficult to agree with someone even if the proofs are glaring to your eyes. Instead, you twist and shift poles. I remembered on that thread I opened for your sake "What's wrong with Tintingz?" After I gave you scientific proofs that were found in the Qur'an and scientists who agreed to it, you said that the scientists were simply trying to please the Arabs! These are people that you don't possess a quarter of the knowledge they possess and the certificates they possess (Sorry if I sound offensive).

Kindly mention these scientists. Did you bother doing research on the acclaim scientific proof in the Quran, that were discovered before Islam surface? You think the study of astronomy, cosmology started in the Quran? Please don't tell me it does.

The acclaim science in Quran has been falsified by mordern science e.g human made up of sand/dust, this is a myth in many ancient culture.

I might be wrong when I said they try to please the arabs but we can't rule out they did, the people I can applaud for thier works are the medieval Muslim scientists.

On that same thread, I gave you the new scientific finding of giving a new child chewed dates which the prophet has prescribed hundreds of years ago. Instead of you to agree with it, even after the proof (link to the findings) given, you went on to ask another question; "Do you know that giving sugary foods to new baby is harmful?" is all what you mumbled.

Giving sugary food to babies not up to a year is harmful, you can do your research, secondly I also pointed out this similar practice is done in ancient Greece, India(new born babies are given honey). Mordern science has find it to be harmful to new babies, they advice people to avoide the practice till thier babies turn six months or a year older.

But one thing that's common to most acclaimed atheists like yourself, is that whenever you think you have found the so-called freedom in your atheism, you feel some hidden knowledge of everything has been given to you. It is funny seriously.

No one has knowledge of everything, there's no hidden knowledge, we are evolving in understanding the things around us, I prefer following scientific facts than believing in some ancient myths. If I don't know something I simply tell you I don't know and do research on it.

Sixthly, dear brother, you bite more than you can chew. You barely understand the concept of a thing before jumping on another. Moreover, you are found of asking questions in question. In all candour, with this style, one can barely achieve anything from a discussion cos it would have deviated from the main purpose and one won't have finished a discussion while starting another one.

We all ask questions when arguing, I ask questions with premises given not going strawman, non sequitur. If we don't ask questions we will only conclude the arguments with sentiments which mostly happen in many debate.

The point of questions is making people reason, people pick up one or two things to reflect on.

I pray that Allah grant you guidance but guidance is only for the sincere and truthful ones. Salaam

Not relevant. Thank you.

Alhajiemeritus:
Pm not working.

Number is 08108169276

you didn't specify your network provider

Empiree:
you didn't specify your network provider

sorry
MTN NG

Empiree:
ok, noted.

Jazakhumullahu khairan!!! I received the alert of 35.5k this afternoon as promised. May Almighty ALLAH reward you exceedingly. Amin

LadunaI:


Jazakhumullahu khairan!!! I received the alert of 35k this afternoon as promised. May Almighty ALLAH reward you exceedingly. Amin

Amin

ı һѧνє ѧʟso яєċєıνє ţһє ѧʟєяţ......... جزاكم الله خير

Sissie:


Very well said.

You need to understand his psychology.
1. He can’t agree with you even if it’s glaring because doing so would make him question his beliefs (atheism) consciously or unconsciously.

2. he would need to shift post and confuse similitudes in order to justify and make himself believe his atheistic beliefs are true.

3. Even before his atheism that he suddenly thinks he is intelligent, tintingz had mediocre knowledge and that hasn’t changed irrespective of all the atheistic websites or forums or videos he listens too. He is still mediocre even if he thinks otherwise. And yes I know there are very intelligent atheists.

4. He isn’t arguing with you to seek for clarity or understanding, he is arguing to justify his beliefs and you can’t successfully argue with someone who has that goal in mind.

So why bother

This post here reeks Ad hominem, projection.

Sissie:


Very well said.

You need to understand his psychology.
1. He can’t agree with you even if it’s glaring because doing so would make him question his beliefs (atheism) consciously or unconsciously.

2. he would need to shift post and confuse similitudes in order to justify and make himself believe his atheistic beliefs are true.

3. Even before his atheism that he suddenly thinks he is intelligent, tintingz had mediocre knowledge and that hasn’t changed irrespective of all the atheistic websites or forums or videos he listens too. He is still mediocre even if he thinks otherwise. And yes I know there are very intelligent atheists.

4. He isn’t arguing with you to seek for clarity or understanding, he is arguing to justify his beliefs and you can’t successfully argue with someone who has that goal in mind.

So why bother

I agree with u 100% on this.
Same thing I noticed.

AlBaqir:



# I can confidently say that the hadith (the highlighted part) is either forged or the sahabi never comprehended the saying of the Prophet. Why is this?

"""


# So, I strongly believe that the hadith you have quoted was forged to protect those who fought Ali, or perhaps made Ali to share in fault of causing fitnah in the Ummah.


Amin to your prayers.

Thumb up bro for this your deduction. I can't really fathom how four among famous collections of hadith- Sahih Sitta would be reporting a 'forged' hadith. I don't believe that.

The point is that both of them seems to have genuine reasons(s) of what their stands which later led to that fitnah, but like what holy prophet(saw) reported in one hadith( can't recall but will find it) that the party more NEARER to the TRUTH will KILL the leader of Kwararij which happened to be killed by Hadrat ALI(ra), showing that Imam ALI(ra) might be correct in his stands, but the shouldn't amount to "certifying" the other party.

There is no need to revisit or duel on this issue because is one of black spot of Islamic history.

Here are the hadith reported by four Sahih Sitta:

Sunan an-Nasa'i, The Book of Fighting [The Prohibition of Bloodshed]
Book 37, Hadith 157
Narrated 'It was narrated that Abu Bakrah said:
"I heard the Messenger of Allah [SAW] say: 'If two Muslims confront each other with their swords and one of them kills the other, both the killer and the slain will be in Hell.'" They said: "O Messenger of Allah, (we understand about) the killer, but what about the one who is killed?" He said: "He wanted to kill his companion." (Sahih)

Sahih al-Bukhari, Afflictions and the End of the World
Book 92, Hadith 34
Narrated 'Al-Hasan:
(Al-Ahnaf said I went out carrying my arms during the nights of the affliction (i.e. the war between `Ali and `Aisha) and Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I intend to help the cousin of Allah's Messenger (pbuh) (i.e.,`Ali)." Abu Bakra said, "Allah's Messenger (pbuh) said, 'If two Muslims take out their swords to fight each other, then both of them will be from amongst the people of the Hell- Fire.' It was said to the Prophet, 'It is alright for the killer but what about the killed one?' He replied, 'The killed one had the intention to kill his opponent.'" (See Hadith No. 30, Vol. 1) Narrated Al-Ahnaf: Abu Bakra said: The Prophet (pbuh) said (as above, 204).

Sahih Muslim, The Book of Tribulations and Portents of the Last Hour
Book 55, Hadith 7434
Narrated 'Ahnaf b. Qais reported:
I set out with the intention of helping this person (Hadrat 'Ali) that Abu Bakra met me. He said: Ahnaf, where do you intend to go? I said: I intend to help the cousin of Allah's Messenger (pbuh), viz. 'Ali. Thereupon he said to me: Ahnaf, go back, for I heard Allah's Messenger (pbuh) as saying: When two Muslims confront one another with swords (in hands) both the slayer and the slain would be in Fire. He (Ahnaf) said: I said, or it was said: Allah's Messenger, it may be the case of one who kills. but what about the slain (why he would be put in Hell-Fire)? Thereupon he said: He also intended to kill his companion.

Sunan Abu Dawood, Trials and Fierce Battles (Kitab Al-Fitan Wa Al-Malahim)
Book 37, Hadith 29
Narrated 'Ahnaf b. Qais said:
I came out with the intention of (participating in) fighting. Abu Bakrah met me and said: Go back, for I heard the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) say: When two Muslims face each other with their swords, the killer and the slain will go to Hell. He asked: Messenger of Allah, this is the killer (so naturally he should go to Hell), but what is the matter with the slain ? He replied: He intended to kill his companion.

Thanks

Sissie:
smh,

You people should be posting long english, justifying yourselves and confusing your selves.

Women are creations of Allah but how do you prove the plots are his creation....

Empire too is marking saying women have mighty plots
!!!! men are plotless abi! they dont plot coups, overthrow leaders, plot against women, deceive people smh for you all.

if you are trick less better go and learn.

Using subjectivity to back your claims. SMH

Sister the "Plot of Women" no be here ooo . Even the Best of Makind (saw) alluded to that in this hidith.

Sahih al-Bukhari, Menstrual Periods
Book 6, Hadith 9
Narrated 'Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Messenger (pbuh) went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o `Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer.

Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)."

They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Messenger (pbuh) ?"

He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you."

The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (pbuh)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?"

He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?"

They replied in the affirmative.

He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?"

The women replied in the affirmative.

He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

The majority dwellers of hell fire will be women.

I'm done.

tintingz:
The majority dwellers of hell fire will be women.

I'm done.

I am sure you dont understand a thing from the hadith he cited. Besides, look around you today, LOTS of women are very ungrateful. Buy paradise for them they are still ungrateful to you save few. And look at their dressing....especially in the Western world in summer. So tempting.

LadunaI:

Sister the "Plot of Women" no be here ooo . Even the Best of Makind (saw) alluded to that in this hidith.

Sahih al-Bukhari, Menstrual Periods
Book 6, Hadith 9
Narrated 'Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Messenger (pbuh) went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o `Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer.

Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)."

They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Messenger (pbuh) ?"

He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you."

The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (pbuh)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?"

He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?"

They replied in the affirmative.

He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?"

The women replied in the affirmative.

He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

This hadith does not have a Quran backing does it?
If it does, can you pls help post the verse?


I just need to be clear about the Hadith.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
@tintingz, I won't bother replying all what you wrote up there. As AlBaqir would say, some discussions are waste of time and resources. I won't let you lure me into one endless and unbearing discussion that would turn into hide and seek game. You just proved my points with what you typed up there.

My schedules are too tight these days, even if I have free time, I would rather play FIFA or GTA than engaging in a long discussion that won't yield anything.

So, enjoy your atheism. Only Allah gives guidance and Allah knows that we (your pals on NL) tried calling back to His path. Bye

Sissie:



Very well said.

You need to understand his psychology.
1. He can’t agree with you even if it’s glaring because doing so would make him question his beliefs (atheism) consciously or unconsciously.

2. he would need to shift post and confuse similitudes in order to justify and make himself believe his atheistic beliefs are true.

3. Even before his atheism that he suddenly thinks he is intelligent, tintingz had mediocre knowledge and that hasn’t changed irrespective of all the atheistic websites or forums or videos he listens too. He is still mediocre even if he thinks otherwise. And yes I know there are very intelligent atheists.

4. He isn’t arguing with you to seek for clarity or understanding, he is arguing to justify his beliefs and you can’t successfully argue with someone who has that goal in mind.

So why bother

You just sum it up brilliantly. One thing is that he thinks he already knows everything and there's no point learning what you think you already know. He reads with the sole aim to refute and not dialogue. He just wants to mock and 'catch' fun.

I have met intelligent atheists, even on NL. One dude named NL.member, he was an atheist and dialogues nicely even though we don't agree on most things. May Allah keep our feet firm on His path (Aameen)

Empiree:
I am sure you dont understand a thing from the hadith he cited. Besides, look around you today, LOTS of women are very ungrateful. By paradise for them they still ungrateful to you save few. And look at their dressing....especially in the Western world in summer. So provoking

Even as a man i will tell you through out history men are the ones that committed atrocities, slavery, oppress the women folks for centuries and you are telling me some Petty things about women?

When I said your religion is gendered base you will say I'm lying.

I followed some part of the argument, wether plot of women is greater or not is irrelevant, the relevant question you folks need to ask is the root, did Allah know what will become of humans beforehand?

LadunaI:

Sister the "Plot of Women" no be here ooo . Even the Best of Makind (saw) alluded to that in this hidith.

Sahih al-Bukhari, Menstrual Periods
Book 6, Hadith 9
Narrated 'Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Messenger (pbuh) went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o `Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer.

Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)."

They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Messenger (pbuh) ?"

He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you."

The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (pbuh)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?"

He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?"

They replied in the affirmative.

He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?"

The women replied in the affirmative.

He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

highlighted part reminds of of Egyptian muazzin of 30 yrs. Never missed masjid. His story was narrated twice by Sheikh Daud Alfa Nla in two separate lectures. It was said that he had been sighting half naked egyptian christian lady for some times now whenever she passed through the masjid. But she didnt notice that muazzin got crush on her.

One day muazzin could not hold himself. When it was time for salat he did not make a call when he saw the lady passed by again. He quickly followed her to enquire about her. Upon meeting her, the lady recognized him quite well. She said aren't you the man who called to salat everyday?. He acknowledged and quickly proposed to the lady. The lady said he can not marry her bcus he is muslim and she is a christian and her parents would not tolerate her conversion to islam.

She said before discussing further, he would need to meet her father if he is so willing to marry her. So they set up to meet her father the same day. Her father lived in a uncompleted storey building where their meeting took place. Her father also knew muazzin so he would not give his daughter in marriage to him unless he converts to christianity. The man said that's not a problem and he gave his life to christ in the open and converted to christianity. And shortly after declaration, he slipped and he fell from this elevated building and died.

Not saying this is women's plot. Just a related narration.

lanrexlan:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
@tintingz, I won't bother replying all what you wrote up there. As AlBaqir would say, some discussions are waste of time and resources. I won't let you lure me into one endless and unbearing discussion that would turn into hide and seek game. You just proved my points with what you typed up there.

Lol, this thread alone is an endless discussion and argument within you folks, muslims arguing endlessly, arguing about some ancient mythology.

Even among you people your Religion is still a problem, everyone is claiming the true ideology.

You fail to see the sentiments and absurdity in your conclusion.

My schedules are too tight these days, even if I have free time, I would rather play FIFA or GTA than engaging in a long discussion that won't yield anything.

Everyone has things doing, I have my work, I also have my PS4 GoW Everytime I'm less busy, I just buzz in NL to read and comments when I feel like.

So, enjoy your atheism. Only Allah gives guidance and Allah knows that we (your pals on NL) tried calling back to His path. Bye

Again not relevant.

You just sum it up brilliantly. One thing is that he thinks he already knows everything and there's no point learning what you think you already know. He reads with the sole aim to refute and not dialogue. He just wants to mock and 'catch' fun.

Nowhere I claim to know everything, you're just projecting.

What's the essence of debate, is it not sharing thoughts, questions and refute?

You said I ask too much questions now you said I'm not ready to dialogue, are you not self-contradictory?

I have met intelligent atheists, even on NL. One dude named NL.member, he was an atheist and dialogues nicely even though we don't agree on most things. May Allah keep our feet firm on His path (Aameen)

I have also met intelligent Muslims here on NL, but ad hominem is not healthy in a debate, it's a fallacious thing to do when you think you're actually replying the premises given.

Q: "Did Allah know all"?

Re: "You're not intelligent, you think you know all, you're hopeless, you're jobless, you read too much books and Google, may Allah have mercy on you"(as if thier own knowledge about thier ideology was born with them).

Result = Psychological projection, Ad hominem, non sequitur fallacy.

tintingz:
Even as a man i will tell you through out history men are the ones that committed atrocities, slavery, oppress the women folks for centuries and you are telling me some Petty things about women?

When I said your religion is gendered base you will say I'm lying.

I followed some part of the argument, wether plot of women is greater or not is irrelevant, the relevant question you folks need to ask is the root, did Allah know what will become of humans beforehand?

i understand men are engineer behind what women become today. But this doesn't absolve them of allegation levied against them by the hadith.

Another hadith reiterates this by saying a time will come when man will have to cohesively retrain his wife(from fasad). This is happening of course. If you can not retrain them you lose them. That's why, look at baby mama situation. Their boyfriend can not tell them what to do especially in the West cus they can walk away of relationship anytime. They have baby with you now and they are ready to go out with another man days after given birth.


As for other thing you said, i am sure we discussed it before

Empiree:
i understand men are engineer behind what women become today. But this doesn't absolve them of allegation levied against them by the hadith.

Another hadith reiterates this by saying a time will come when man will have to cohesively retrain his wife(from fasad). This is happening of course. If you can not retrain them you lose them. That's why, look at baby mama situation. Their boyfriend can not tell them what to do especially in the West cus they can walk away of relationship anytime. They have baby with you now and they are ready to go out with another man days after given birth.

This is 21st century oga wake up, how do you still think men can retrain full adults specie called women? Women are now informed, they are now being in high position even countries like Saudi Arabia are now evolving in women rights.

Can a women tell her boyfriend what to do and listen? If she can't why do you expect same result from women? Babymama is a personal choice for some women, not everyone wants to marry, it's not like marraige actually make nothern Nigeria a better place or does it?

As for other thing you said, i am sure we discussed it before

If you start from the root of questioning "did God know what will become of human beforehand" is taken serious with open mind by you folks, you will get your answers.

tintingz:
This is 21st century oga wake up, how do you still think men can retrain full adults specie called women?

That's it. The hadith in this regard is not static.

Women are now informed, they are now being in high position even countries like Saudi Arabia are now evolving in women rights.

So the best achievement is by walking around naked and provoking men?. And the whole idea of seeking their husband permission before anything especially going will forever make sense even in 22nd century. Nigeria alone should teach you that lesson. See the rate at which they get kidnapped women and no one knows their whereabout until they are found dead?. Oga, there is diff btw women's rights and these nonsense they turn the world in to. Islam always have women's right.

Can a women tell her boyfriend what to do and listen?

Dont get it wrong. Women can also offer advise, idea etc.

If she can't why do you expect same result from women?

this is why the world is messed up. Men and women aren't the same. Let me tell you that you may be surprised if your girlfriend dumps you bcus she wants a controlling boyfriend or husband. I have personally experienced a woman told me she wants a her man to tell her what to do. Don't believe in the idea of some of them that they dont want a man telling them what to do. If you allow them to do anything they want, you will surprised she will dump you bcus she feels insecure. Her security is threatening by that. Men and women arent the same, buddy. They can be unpredictable.

Babymama is a personal choice for some women, not everyone wants to marry, it's not like marraige actually make nothern Nigeria a better place or does it?

Yes, personal choice but she is not protected. Her rights from her man is off the table. Why do you think Janet married Arab guy and then opted out later?. Bcus she knows too well she can not get those right if she was only his baby mama. So at least, those women in northern nigeria still able to take their husband to sharia court. They have rights compared to if they are just baby mamas. She can not take him to court for full benefits for herself except for the child. If not for good economy in America, you think these young ladies having babies anyhow would be any better?. Wallah if America is poor, they would not be having babies anyhow cus they have to pay it all by themselves.

If you start from the root of questioning "did God know what will become of human beforehand" is taken serious with open mind by you folks, you will get your answers.

I know where you driving at with this. I posted about this a yr or two ago and you participated. So i still dont know why this is an issue to shun existence of God. It is pretty much a waste of time dwelling over this. Whether you like it or not, free will exist. Divine guidance or destiny also exist.

Empiree:
That's it. The hadith in this regard is not static.

So the best achievement is by walking around naked and provoking men?. And the whole idea of seeking their husband permission before anything especially going will forever make sense even in 22nd century. Nigeria alone should teach you that lesson. See the rate at which they get kidnapped women and no one knows their whereabout until they are found dead?. Oga, there is diff btw women's rights and these nonsense they turn the world in to. Islam always have women's right.

So you think walking and covering the whole body is the solution? The girls and women that were kidnapped in northern Nigeria were they walking nake.d?

Who's provoking who? You mean women only provoke?

Dont get it wrong. Women can also offer advise, idea etc.

Ok

this is why the world is messed up. Men and women aren't the same. Let me tell you that you may be surprised if your girlfriend dumps you bcus she wants a controlling boyfriend or husband. I have personally experienced a woman told me she wants a her man to tell her what to do. Don't believe in the idea of some of them that they dont want a man telling them what to do. If you allow them to do anything they want, you will surprised she will dump you bcus she feels insecure. Her security is threatening by that. Men and women arent the same, buddy. They can be unpredictable.

There are different women with thier traits, some wants to be dominated and submit, some wants to be above men, some are just religious and believe men are higher than them, some wants equality etc Don't categorize every woman traits as one, that's fallacy, why do you think Oprah Winfrey is not under any man instead having a partner?

Some women left thier marriage because thier husband is a control freak! Some are not happy.

Men and women are the same in psychological sense, if we're not we won't have women becoming leaders in some contries, we won't have wealthy business women.

Yes, personal choice but she is not protected. Her rights from her man is off the table. Why do you think Janet married Arab guy and then opted out later?. Bcus she knows too well she can not get those right if she was only his baby mama. So at least, those women in northern nigeria still able to take their husband to sharia court. They have rights compared to if they are just baby mamas. She can not take him to court for full benefits for herself except for the child. If not for good economy in America, you think these young ladies having babies anyhow would be any better?. Wallah if America is poor, they would not be having babies anyhow cus they have to pay it all by themselves.

In Sharia, women don't actually have same right as men correct me if I'm wrong, properties are not even given to female child or a less portion is given correct me if I'm wrong, so tell me how does divorce favor women in Sharia law when it favors men most?

That's not even the case how does marriage control the homeless children in northern Nigeria?

I know where you driving at with this. I posted about this a yr or two ago and you participated. So i still dont know why this is an issue to shun existence of God. It is pretty much a waste of time dwelling over this. Whether you like it or not, free will exist. Divine guidance or destiny also exist.

Freewill and predestination cannot exist together, it doesn't make any sense, how can you tell me one's life has been predestined by an all-knowing God and as well has freewill?

tintingz:
So you think walking and covering the whole body is the solution? The girls and women that were kidnapped in northern Nigeria were they walking nake.d?

you mixed up.

Who's provoking who? You mean women only provoke?

ask NYC police officers they would tell you. I posted something about this 3yrs ago. Any anytime your hear "rape" what comes to mind?. Answer that sincerely. Minus men who transgressed, provocative dress by women is a big factor.

Men and women are the same in psychological sense, if we're not we won't have women becoming leaders in some contries, we won't have wealthy business women.

there is nothing in Islam that prevent women from pursing their dreams. But then, the way works that advocate for women's rights, how many of them actually have women leadership?. Why don't they have women only presidential candidates?. Goes to show you by default, men are maintainance and sustainance of women.

In Sharia, women don't actually have same right as men correct me if I'm wrong, properties are not even given to female child or a less portion is given correct me if I'm wrong, so tell me how does divorce favor women in Sharia law when it favors men most?

lol, you have no idea why Allah gave large portion of inheritance to men. Shaking my head. I wish you live in the US of A and marry a lawyer. She would deliberately divorce you and rip you off in court g your properties. You would be loving Islamic law fast fast.

That's not even the case how does marriage control the homeless children in northern Nigeria?

that's Nigeria economy and lawlessness. Not marriage institution in itself.

Freewill and predestination cannot exist together, it doesn't make any sense, how can you tell me one life has been predestined by an all-knowing God and as well has freewill?

I can only wish I find the thread and repost. Was explained there. This is gonna be endless argument. Hopefully I have time to re-engage some day.

LadunaI:

Thumb up bro for this your deduction. I can't really fathom how four among famous collections of hadith- Sahih Sitta would be reporting a 'forged' hadith. I don't believe that.

# Funny you. Which one of them is infallible? For a fact, even sahih Bukhari was criticized by the Sunni all time best in Ilm al-hadith, Hafiz ibn Hajar al-Asqalani and of course Allamah Nasirudeen al-Albani.

That is Sahih al-Bukhari that is allegedly believed to be more accurate. The forgery and fabrication in other 5 is unbelievable. Besides, the present day sahih Bukhari was NEVER the manuscript of Imam Bukhari. The earliest edition of sahih Bukhari was gathered around 115 years after the death of Imam Bukhari and it only contain 53 pages with blank pages.

How come we have 9 - 11 volumes today with thousands of ahadith


Besides, if you check very well, the alleged hadith under discussion is just one hadith from Abu Bakrah. So it doesn't matter whether four out of six hadith collectors document it.


Interestingly, we have given our submissions from the Quran and other hadiths to expose the falsity of that alleged hadith. It is disappointing that your reply was just "four out of six kutubu sittah cannot report forged hadith".

Try to be more honest to your soul brother. There is no competition or proselytizing here.

LadunaI:

The point is that both of them seems to have genuine reasons(s) of what their stands which later led to that fitnah, but like what holy prophet(saw) reported in one hadith( can't recall but will find it) that the party more NEARER to the TRUTH will KILL the leader of Kwararij which happened to be killed by Hadrat ALI(ra), showing that Imam ALI(ra) might be correct in his stands, but the shouldn't amount to "certifying" the other party.

There is no need to revisit or duel on this issue because is one of black spot of Islamic history.

You are mixing mangoes and oranges together now. Like we have submitted earlier, Imam Ali only fought three wars:

1. With oath breakers

2. With Qasitin

3. With Khawarij.


Even if you are confused or deliberately blocking your nafs from the truth of our simple and humble submission, don't you agree that Ali was the "Rightly Guided Caliph" of that time? Meaning he represented Rasulullah and MUST be obeyed.

# Let me refresh your memory. Caliph Abubakr fought some set of SAHABAH and killed them all for refusing to pay him Zakat. The whole of Ahlu Sunnah agreed that those "sahabah" were APOSTATE. So, why treating the oath breakers, the Qasitin and the Khawarij different from those ones fought by Abubakr when you believed both Abubakr and Ali were "Rightly Guided Caliph"?

LadunaI:

Here are the hadith reported by four Sahih Sitta:

Sunan an-Nasa'i, The Book of Fighting [The Prohibition of Bloodshed]
Book 37, Hadith 157
Narrated 'It was narrated that Abu Bakrah said:
"I heard the Messenger of Allah [SAW] say: 'If two Muslims confront each other with their swords and one of them kills the other, both the killer and the slain will be in Hell.'" They said: "O Messenger of Allah, (we understand about) the killer, but what about the one who is killed?" He said: "He wanted to kill his companion." (Sahih)

Sahih al-Bukhari, Afflictions and the End of the World
Book 92, Hadith 34
Narrated 'Al-Hasan:
(Al-Ahnaf said I went out carrying my arms during the nights of the affliction (i.e. the war between `Ali and `Aisha) and Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I intend to help the cousin of Allah's Messenger (pbuh) (i.e.,`Ali)." Abu Bakra said, "Allah's Messenger (pbuh) said, 'If two Muslims take out their swords to fight each other, then both of them will be from amongst the people of the Hell- Fire.' It was said to the Prophet, 'It is alright for the killer but what about the killed one?' He replied, 'The killed one had the intention to kill his opponent.'" (See Hadith No. 30, Vol. 1) Narrated Al-Ahnaf: Abu Bakra said: The Prophet (pbuh) said (as above, 204).

Sahih Muslim, The Book of Tribulations and Portents of the Last Hour
Book 55, Hadith 7434
Narrated 'Ahnaf b. Qais reported:
I set out with the intention of helping this person (Hadrat 'Ali) that Abu Bakra met me. He said: Ahnaf, where do you intend to go? I said: I intend to help the cousin of Allah's Messenger (pbuh), viz. 'Ali. Thereupon he said to me: Ahnaf, go back, for I heard Allah's Messenger (pbuh) as saying: When two Muslims confront one another with swords (in hands) both the slayer and the slain would be in Fire. He (Ahnaf) said: I said, or it was said: Allah's Messenger, it may be the case of one who kills. but what about the slain (why he would be put in Hell-Fire)? Thereupon he said: He also intended to kill his companion.

Sunan Abu Dawood, Trials and Fierce Battles (Kitab Al-Fitan Wa Al-Malahim)
Book 37, Hadith 29
Narrated 'Ahnaf b. Qais said:
I came out with the intention of (participating in) fighting. Abu Bakrah met me and said: Go back, for I heard the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) say: When two Muslims face each other with their swords, the killer and the slain will go to Hell. He asked: Messenger of Allah, this is the killer (so naturally he should go to Hell), but what is the matter with the slain ? He replied: He intended to kill his companion.

Thanks

# You can clearly see that the hadith is from one source - Abubakra. So there is no need of painting it as "many" reported by "many".


# Apart from the fact that we have exposed the alleged hadith in light of Quran and other hadith, the fatal and devastating interpretation of it is that:

1. Both Ali and his followers, and the oath breakers will end up in hell fire

2. Both Ali and his followers, and the Qasitin will end up in hell fire

3. Both Ali and his followers, and the Khawarij will end up in hell fire


Therefore we ask where's Islam concept of right and wrong, reward and punishment, paradise and hell? The ayah we have submitted from sura al-Hujurat clearly established that whenever two.group of Muslims are fighting each other, only ONE can be on the right path and that group should be supported over the other provided peace cannot be reached between them. This is Qur'an. Unfortunately you want us to accept an alleged hadith that says both group are candidates of hell fire. Please wake up.


# Like I said, the hadith could either be a forgery or misunderstood by the narrator.


Please think and don't let love of a personality or sentiment towards a sect becloud your insight.


Thanks for your time.

Empiree:
you mixed up.

There's no mix up anywhere, you just don't want to accept the fact that women covering are being kidnapped and rape.

There was even a thread on NL where I posted a video where women are publicly sexually harassed by men in arab countries, women account thier rape experience in this country but they don't report thier cases for fear of purnishment (Sharia court even purnish the victim).

ask NYC police officers they would tell you. I posted something about this 3yrs ago. Any anytime your hear "rape" what comes to mind?. Answer that sincerely. Minus men who transgressed, provocative dress by women is a big factor.

So minor are raped because?

Hijabi women in arab countries are rape because?

Indecent dress can be a factor(I don't subscribe to that tho) but not the "big factor" the big factor is a society where men are dominant and can get away with rape cases.

The WHO states that the principal factors that lead to the perpetration of sexual violence against women, including rape, are:

- beliefs in family honor and sexual purity;

- attitudes of male sexual entitlement;

- weak legal sanctions for sexual violence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence#Physical_and_social_environment

there is nothing in Islam that prevent women from pursing their dreams. But then, the way works that advocate for women's rights, how many of them actually have women leadership?. Why don't they have women only presidential candidates?. Goes to show you by default, men are maintainance and sustainance of women.

Men have been in leadership post for centuries because of thier strength ability(patriarchal periods), women are now coming out to become leaders in companies, states, countries etc and they are achieving it. Is Queen Elizabeth the mentainance of men since she ruled for decades now, maybe things are now turning around.

Check out history most tyrant leaders are men and till date it's still the case.

lol, you have no idea why Allah gave large portion of inheritance to men. Shaking my head. I wish you live in the US of A and marry a lawyer. She would deliberately divorce you and rip you off in court g your properties. You would be loving Islamic law fast fast.

If she has properties the court will also split her property 50/50 I think, but most time husbands are always the losing end because they are the ones boasting of properties.

that's Nigeria economy and lawlessness. Not marriage institution in itself.

The marriage institution is a also problem, how can you tell me having multiple wives up to four and having children like chicken won't result to economy problem, how do you expect the government to satisfy population like that? Even in South West Nigeria most homeless thugs are mostly Muslims. Yes there's bad leadership and economy in the country but that system of marriage is adding to the problem.

I can only wish I find the thread and repost. Was explained there. This is gonna be endless argument. Hopefully I have time to re-engage some day.

Ok.

Three (3) more to be satisfied

ladkud

Bakar1

Yasolan

Empiree:
Three (3) more to be satisfied
ladkud
Bakar1
Yasolan

Alert received Jazakumlaha khairan

Empiree:
I sent u email since yesterday

I haven't receive any 08060221449. Jazakallah khaira