ThinkSmarter:
Many Parameters have really worked to their [Isreal]benefits , they might not be strong enough to confront their enemies. From their persecution in Egypt to the Holocaust in Germany and several others that happened in the ancient Roman, Ottoman, Assyrian and MedoPersian empire.
But cuz, their help comes from God, He will always turn things around to their favour.
Isrealites hv recorded the highest number of wars in history. If you do read the Bible, u will see historical documentation of the ways Isreal have been captured in war by Ancient Babylonians and Assyrians.
They hv been,killed, maimed, captured and taken to slavery on several occasions, yet they hv bounced back stronger.
Here they are!
I think, no one can stop them except God wills.
It's a promise from God to Abraham that He will make his descendants a great nation.
I have once philosophized like you.
I hv been an atheist to some extent.
Yes, some of the things happening here on earth can cause you to doubt and question the existence of God at times.
But, surely He do exist.
Before now, He knew that man will get to the technological feats we hv these days. He is the one that embedded the minerals securely beneath the earth and gave man the wisdom to continue with the rest of the exploitation.
But many things convinced me that God really do exist.
God is Alive, Not Dead.
I'm not as a result of Evolution, I'm designed by an intelligent Being, likewise you.
Plants, Animals, Humans and the Universe are designed by the Supreme being.
He is like a Mystery, u can't really comprehend him if u keep philosophising.
He is Metaphysical.
He is beyond Science.
Science can't explain true Prophesies
Science can't explain Vision/revelations .
Science can't explain Miracle.

DirewolfofStark:

[s]
Its really painful for you isn't it? But whether the followers of the illiterate pedophile drinker of camel urine like it or not, Israel is here to stay.[/s]

And Palestinian Christians would be in a modern progressive democracy like Israel than live as Dhimmis under Islamic law.

There are thousands of Palestinians in Israel's army. So your hope that Christian Palestinian will rise against their natural allies is garbage.

Demmzy15:
SMH!

mrmrmister:

I have

I even saw the forbidden fruit

Demmzy15:


[s]Typical of Christians, when challenged with superior arguments, resort to gullible unreasonable rhetorics.
[/s]


[s]They've always loved to live as dhimmis in an Islamic State and this same Islamic state was the same thing that protected many Jews from butchery of Christians but Muslims were repaid with evil. Nothing evil lasts long! [/s]



[s]Mumu, the so-called Palestinians in Israeli army are known as Druze. This a religion that sprung out of Shi'as, no Palestinian Christian is in the army. In fact we have Palestinian Christians that have committed terrorism against Israel. Examples are: Sirhan Sirhan, Chris Bandak, George Habbash.[/s]

Browse this individuals and shame the devil!

the so-called Palestinians in Israeli army are known as Druze. This a religion that sprung out of Shi'as, no Palestinian Christian is in the army. In fact we have Palestinian Christians that have committed terrorism against Israel. Examples are: Sirhan Sirhan, Chris Bandak, George Habbash

Population statistics today are questionable and census is difficult in the various countries of the Middle East, and demographic trends and accuracy of religious affiliation are political issues and must be treated with caution. However, it is evident that under Muslim rule Christians became a minority in the area of Palestine. In recent years the Christian population has declined not only numerically, but also as a proportion of the overall population. This decline has been due to a number of factors: Christian emigration, a higher Muslim birthrate, poor economic conditions, the rise of Islamist groups especially Hamas and Islamic Jihad, growing insecurity, the use made of Christian towns such as Beit Jala as a base by Palestinian fighters for sniping against Israeli areas in Jerusalem, and Christian concern about their fate in the political future.

They've always loved to live as dhimmis in an Islamic State and this same Islamic state was the same thing that protected many Jews from butchery of Christians but Muslims were repaid with evil. Nothing evil lasts long!

Jerryojozy:
Shake well not my head. U can't change what's happening there.

Genius J

Demmzy15:
I don't need to change anything, what Israel is doing has happened to Muslims before and it was in fact worse. The Crusaders slaughtered and displaced Muslims from Palestine, Muslims were able to recover back and defeated the whole crusaders almost 100years later.

So keep calm and enjoy while it lasts, one fact I know is God is not unjust and doesn't make corrupt people as his chosen.

Demmzy15:
What are you saying? They were defeated before the birth of Christ that's why the Romans ruled them. When they tried to Revolt, they were defeated and sent out in 70AD by the European Romans. They've always been persecuted by Christians for more than 1000 years and in many cases found safety in Muslim lands.

Hitler killed 6 million from them, yet you didn't know God.

Their victory against the Arabs cannot happen again, the world is now different. According to ratings of today, the Egyptian army is ranked higher than Israel. In fact during the 1973 war they were surprised to the extent they thought they were going to be defeated not until America helped them out.

Stop all this bullsh't, they only know how to kill civilians and blame their enemies. How can you support a country that kills women and children in Gaza and brag about it?

DirewolfofStark:

What exactly is the superior argument? All you succeeded in doing was putting your crass ignorace on open display for everyone to see.

[b]The Palestinians in the IDF are from many backgrounds. Some are Muslims, but the majority are Christians. Elinor Joseph is one such example. I have included a screen shot of her wikipedia page to show that she indeed identifies as Christian.

My mistake , I just discovered that there are even Muslims who support them. No doubt this kind of people will exist. The hypocrites will surely be there, if you are conversant with Islamic history, we have the "munafiqqun", these were people who claimed to be Muslims but stabbed at the back. During the Mongols slaughter of Muslims, we had Muslims who supported them. During the Crusaders butchery of Muslims, we had Muslims who supported them.

Mind you, we have thousands of Jews who are against Zionists/Israel. http://www.nkusa.org/

The likes of Sirhan Sirhan, Chris Bandak and George Habbash fought against Israel because they were members of the PLO which was a secular organisation and they believed that the Palestinian State they were fighting for would be a secular state where their religious rights would be respected.
[/b]

Of course that is not the case, as the muslims as usual started openly discriminating against the Christian Palestinians.As the author Michael Curtis puts it:

Isn't this the height of s.t.u.p.i.d.i.t.y on your part? Why would anyone love to live as a second class citizen? So Mohammad protected the Jews by committing acts of genocide against them, like the Banu Qureyza tribe?

In AD 627, Muhammad committed an atrocity against the last remaining major tribe of Jews in Medina: the Qurayza.

He beheaded the men and the pubescent boys and enslaved the women and children. Muhammad killed around 300-600 men and boys, and enslavement for the women and children. A mulsim scholar Ibn Ishaq says that the number may have been as high as 800-900.

So I repeat my question, why would any non-muslim trust a muslim?

The State of Israel certainly doesn't trust muslims and it is for this reason the state is going survive in the face of islamic hatred and bigotry.

DirewolfofStark:
[s]HISTORICAL RIGHT OF JEWS TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL



There has been a continuous Israelite-Jewish population and government in the Holy Land starting in the 12th century BCE and continuing until the end of the Bible's history about 800 years later.


In recent years, archeologists have found thousands of inscriptions in the Holy Land from hundreds of excavated towns and cities. All of these inscriptions are in the Hebrew language. They include people's names that bear forms of the name of their God: YHWH. This means names like:



Hoshaiah, which means "YHWH Saved"
Ahijah, which means "YHWH is My Brother"
Shemariah, which means"YHWH Watched"



These inscriptions refer to the ancient kings of Israel who are mentioned in the Old Testament and the Torah. They include stamps and seals from official documents. They come from tombs where that land's people were buried. They name people who are mentioned in the Hebrew Bible. They include wording that also appears in the Hebrew Bible. They reflect a widespread community whose dominant language was Hebrew, who didn't eat pork and who worshipped a God named YHWH.


A Jewish tomb (burial site) was recently discovered dating from seven hundred years before the birth of Christ, and a silver cylinder was found in this tomb with the following words inscribed in it:


"May YHWH bless you and keep you. May YHWH make his face shine to you and give you peace."
These are the words of the Priestly Blessing in the Hebrew Bible (Numbers 6:24-26).



That is just one inscription. The distinguished scholar Jeffrey Tigay of the University of Pennsylvania sums up:
"The names of more than 1,200 pre-exilic Israelites are known from Hebrew inscriptions and foreign inscriptions referring to Israel." Of these, 557 have names with YHWH as their divine element, 77 have names with El.”


Archeological evidence also shows that texts from the neighboring lands make specific references to the Jewish people, to their kings, to their government, to their armies and to their cities. The basic fact is this: everybody knew that Israel was there: the Egyptians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Arameans, the Moabites, the Persians. Pharaoh Merneptah (1213-1203 B.C.E.) refers to the people of Israel in a stone engraving.



Pharaoh Shoshenk I (c. 945-924 B.C.E.) describes his campaign in which he refers to cities in Israel (including Ayalon, Beth-Shan, Megiddo, Rehob and Taanach)


Assyrian King King Shalmaneser III names King "Ahab the Israelite" among his opponents in his Kurkh monument and names and pictures King Jehu on his Black Obelisk. Seven other Assyrian emperors also refer to Israel and Judah and name kings who are also mentioned in the Bible. The Babylonian sources, too, refer to the Jews and their monarchy in the years after the Babylonians replaced the Assyrian empire.



The record continues when the Persians replace the Babylonians, as documented in the Cylinder of Cyrus, the Persian emperor. Cyrus' decree in 538 B.C.E., let the exiled Jews return to their land; it was followed by an influx of Jewish population. There was population growth from the reign of Darius I to Artaxerxes I.


The country that the Babylonians had conquered was reestablished as a state of Judah (yehud medintha) within the Persian umbrella.
Right across the Jordan River from Israel was Moab, in what is now Jordan. In the ninth century B.C.E., its King Mesha erected a stele referring to Israel and its King Omri. He also refers to the royal House of David. An inscription erected by an Aramean (what is today Syria) also refers to a king of the House of David. In all, these ancient texts refer to 15 kings of Israel and Judah who are known from the Bible, and all are referred to in the right periods their reigns.



The historical records of a Jewish presence in the Holy Land by far outdate those of any Arab/Palestinian presence which did not even begin to exist until the territorial expansion of muslims which started during the life time of the islamic "prophet"



Sources:
• Jeffrey Tigay, "You Shall Have No Other Gods, Harvard Semitic Studies" (Atlanta: Scholars Press, 1986)
• John S. Holladay, Jr., "The Kingdoms of Israel and Judah: Political and Economic Centralization in the Iron IIA-B (ca. 1000-750 BCE)," in Thomas Levy, ed., "The Archaeology of Society in the Holy Land" (Facts on File, 1995) pp. 368-398.
• Elizabeth Bloch-Smith, "Israelite Ethnicity in Iron I: Archaeology Preserves What Is Remembered and What Is Forgotten in Israel's History," Journal of Biblical Literature 122 (2003)
• James B. Pritchard, ed., "Ancient Near Eastern Texts" (Princeton University Press, 1969).[/s]

DirewolfofStark:
[s]HISTORICAL RIGHT OF JEWS TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL



There has been a continuous Israelite-Jewish population and government in the Holy Land starting in the 12th century BCE and continuing until the end of the Bible's history about 800 years later.


In recent years, archeologists have found thousands of inscriptions in the Holy Land from hundreds of excavated towns and cities. All of these inscriptions are in the Hebrew language. They include people's names that bear forms of the name of their God: YHWH. This means names like:



Hoshaiah, which means "YHWH Saved"
Ahijah, which means "YHWH is My Brother"
Shemariah, which means"YHWH Watched"



These inscriptions refer to the ancient kings of Israel who are mentioned in the Old Testament and the Torah. They include stamps and seals from official documents. They come from tombs where that land's people were buried. They name people who are mentioned in the Hebrew Bible. They include wording that also appears in the Hebrew Bible. They reflect a widespread community whose dominant language was Hebrew, who didn't eat pork and who worshipped a God named YHWH.


A Jewish tomb (burial site) was recently discovered dating from seven hundred years before the birth of Christ, and a silver cylinder was found in this tomb with the following words inscribed in it:


"May YHWH bless you and keep you. May YHWH make his face shine to you and give you peace."
These are the words of the Priestly Blessing in the Hebrew Bible (Numbers 6:24-26).



That is just one inscription. The distinguished scholar Jeffrey Tigay of the University of Pennsylvania sums up:
"The names of more than 1,200 pre-exilic Israelites are known from Hebrew inscriptions and foreign inscriptions referring to Israel." Of these, 557 have names with YHWH as their divine element, 77 have names with El.”


Archeological evidence also shows that texts from the neighboring lands make specific references to the Jewish people, to their kings, to their government, to their armies and to their cities. The basic fact is this: everybody knew that Israel was there: the Egyptians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Arameans, the Moabites, the Persians. Pharaoh Merneptah (1213-1203 B.C.E.) refers to the people of Israel in a stone engraving.



Pharaoh Shoshenk I (c. 945-924 B.C.E.) describes his campaign in which he refers to cities in Israel (including Ayalon, Beth-Shan, Megiddo, Rehob and Taanach)


Assyrian King King Shalmaneser III names King "Ahab the Israelite" among his opponents in his Kurkh monument and names and pictures King Jehu on his Black Obelisk. Seven other Assyrian emperors also refer to Israel and Judah and name kings who are also mentioned in the Bible. The Babylonian sources, too, refer to the Jews and their monarchy in the years after the Babylonians replaced the Assyrian empire.



The record continues when the Persians replace the Babylonians, as documented in the Cylinder of Cyrus, the Persian emperor. Cyrus' decree in 538 B.C.E., let the exiled Jews return to their land; it was followed by an influx of Jewish population. There was population growth from the reign of Darius I to Artaxerxes I.


The country that the Babylonians had conquered was reestablished as a state of Judah (yehud medintha) within the Persian umbrella.
Right across the Jordan River from Israel was Moab, in what is now Jordan. In the ninth century B.C.E., its King Mesha erected a stele referring to Israel and its King Omri. He also refers to the royal House of David. An inscription erected by an Aramean (what is today Syria) also refers to a king of the House of David. In all, these ancient texts refer to 15 kings of Israel and Judah who are known from the Bible, and all are referred to in the right periods their reigns.



The historical records of a Jewish presence in the Holy Land by far outdate those of any Arab/Palestinian presence which did not even begin to exist until the territorial expansion of muslims which started during the life time of the islamic "prophet"



Sources:
• Jeffrey Tigay, "You Shall Have No Other Gods, Harvard Semitic Studies" (Atlanta: Scholars Press, 1986)
• John S. Holladay, Jr., "The Kingdoms of Israel and Judah: Political and Economic Centralization in the Iron IIA-B (ca. 1000-750 BCE)," in Thomas Levy, ed., "The Archaeology of Society in the Holy Land" (Facts on File, 1995) pp. 368-398.
• Elizabeth Bloch-Smith, "Israelite Ethnicity in Iron I: Archaeology Preserves What Is Remembered and What Is Forgotten in Israel's History," Journal of Biblical Literature 122 (2003)
• James B. Pritchard, ed., "Ancient Near Eastern Texts" (Princeton University Press, 1969).[/s]

DirewolfofStark:




TRUTH ABOUT THE CRUSADES


The First Crusade began in 1095. This was:

[b]460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies;

Where and how?

457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies;

Wasn't this city ruled by the Byzantines the same people who drove out your lovely Jews? Shouldn't you be thanking Muslims?

453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies;

Who were at war with Byzantines who tried to kill the Prophet Muhammad and Muslims. Why blame us?

443 after Muslims first plundered Italy;

Back it up please!

427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople;

You forgot to mention that this was Byzantine city in which your fellow Christians attacked and looted, you also forgot to mention that not only was it on seige but it was taken over and renamed "Instabul" meaning city of Islam in Turkish!

380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies;

Invited by the Visogoths rulers to take charge and were supported by your lovely Jews.

363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies;

Lie lie!

249 years after the capital of the Christian world, Rome itself, was nearly destroyed by a Muslim army;
[/b]

It was only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians that Christians finally decided to protect themselves by fighting the Crusades.

By the time the Crusades finally began, Muslims had conquered two-thirds of the Christian World.

So much for being the “religion of peace.”

Jerryojozy:
I now see you are myopic and shallow in ur understanding, base in what you typed they are no Muslims in Israel. Bro wake Muslims are very many in Israel. Have u heard of Arab-Israeli? I believe no. Don't be a religious BIGOT!

Genius J

Demmzy15:
Prior to the coming of the Jews, the Canaanites were in the holy lands but this people where wiped out by the Jews. Cc Riduane please can you estimate the amount of Canaanites that were killed when the Jews came in?

The Canaanites controlled the Holy Land for about 1500 years, Jews did for only around 200 years while Muslims did for around 1300years. Just as they're Jewish artifacts you have Canaanites and those who lived there, I'm not disputing that there's no Jewish presence but why punish the Palestinians for something they had nothing to do with. So who has the right to rule?

Demmzy15:
Most of the Arab-Israeli are those who's home were forcefully integrated into Islam. Islam is the second largest religion in Israel, there many Muslims I've seen who were born in so-called Israel but do not acknowledge the fact they're Arab-Israeli, they call themselves Palestinians!

Riduane:


Deuteronomy, chapter 7

1: "When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you are entering to take possession of it , and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Gir'gashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Per'izzites, the Hivites, and the Jeb'usites, seven nations greater and mightier than yourselves,
2: and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them; then you must utterly destroy them; you shall make no covenant with them, and show no mercy to them.


Deuteronomy, chapter 20

16: But in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes,
17: but you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites

As you can see, it' was a mass genocide.

Demmzy15:
What are you saying? They were defeated before the birth of Christ that's why the Romans ruled them. When they tried to Revolt, they were defeated and sent out in 70AD by the European Romans. They've always been persecuted by Christians for more than 1000 years and in many cases found safety in Muslim lands.

Hitler killed 6 million from them, yet you didn't know God.

Their victory against the Arabs cannot happen again, the world is now different. According to ratings of today, the Egyptian army is ranked higher than Israel. In fact during the 1973 war they were surprised to the extent they thought they were going to be defeated not until America helped them out.

Stop all this bullsh't, they only know how to kill civilians and blame their enemies. How can you support a country that kills women and children in Gaza and brag about it?

Keneking:
Ok, who has visited garden of eden?

The exact spot where Adam was sleeping nude

ThinkSmarter:
I neither support the persecution of Palestinian in Gaza and WestBank nor do I support Isreal occupation of Palestine.
I only tried to highlight history and the backbone behind their actions.
[s]It's the God of Israel that made it so from the onset.[/s]
I even wish that two State solutions will be proferred in the disputed region if that will bring an end to the conflict.
Palestinians re humans, they need freedom, peace like any other human irrespective of their faith and race.
I'm not in support of Israel besieging of Gaza and WestBank.

Demmzy15:
God is not unjust, that's a certain fact!

ThinkSmarter:
I'm not trying to say that God is unjust.
But did you forget the story of how God promised Abraham that He will bless his descendants and give them the land of Canaan.
This happened as they were coming out of Egypt in large numbers after so many years when God appeared to Moses and directed him to lead the Isrealites to the promised land.
On their way, they confronted many cities which they over ran and conquered including Jericho with the help of Yahweh.
Joshua, the son of Nun continuedI the war/leadership from Moses.
Read the book of Exodus.

Demmzy15:
Didn't Abraham have two sons? Ishmael and Isaac?

ThinkSmarter:
He have two sons Ishmael and Isaac right! .
Also remember that Isaac begot two sons Esau and Jacob.
But it's Jacob that was blessed by Isaac following his mother, Rebecca's conspiracy.
Jacob Begot 12 sons that formed the 12 tribes of Israel.
God also promised to Hagai, the mother of Ishmael that He will bless the child and make great descendants of him, that is somewhere in Genesis.

Demmzy15:
No offense, so because of conspiracy of Rebecca and God agreed to this deceit and shifted to Jacob, doesn't that sound somehow to you?

Ishmael is a son of Abraham, so by that his descendants aren't left out. Besides, I also maintained that many Palestinians are descendants of Jacob.

Many Jews today claiming Palestine are converts to Judaism, so that doesn't give them a right because they're not related by blood!

ThinkSmarter:
Who am I to judge God. By default, both the descendants of Ishmael, Esau and Jacob suppose to be the same entity.
But God said in the book of Genesis that the descendants of Ishmael will always be at loggerheads with the descendants of Isaac.
Also after Jacob might hv conspired with his mother to take the blessings due to Esau, they were never in peace again.
Meaning that both Ishmael, Esau and Jacob went into separate ways.
With only Jacob and his descendants retained as the mainstream Isreal, cuz Jacobs other names is Isreal.
And they re regarded as the main Hebrew cuz God promised to Abraham that He will fulfill his convenant with him [Abraham] through Isaac, the son of Sarah.

Demmzy15:
OK! Where did it say they'll be loggerheads with descendants of Isaac?

Demmzy15:


[s]Where and how?



Wasn't this city ruled by the Byzantines the same people who drove out your lovely Jews? Shouldn't you be thanking Muslims?



Who were at war with Byzantines who tried to kill the Prophet Muhammad and Muslims. Why blame us?



Back it up please!



You forgot to mention that this was Byzantine city in which your fellow Christians attacked and looted, you also forgot to mention that not only was it on seige but it was taken over and renamed "Instabul" meaning city of Islam in Turkish!



Invited by the Visogoths rulers to take charge and were supported by your lovely Jews.



Lie lie!



Another glorious lie, why lie for christ na?



Another lie, I've been through this with lads like you. It'll end badly for you!



How did Christians get hold of this "Christian world", was it through preaching or bloodshed?

Where and how?

Wasn't this city ruled by the Byzantines the same people who drove out your lovely Jews? Shouldn't you be thanking Muslims?

Who were at war with Byzantines who tried to kill the Prophet Muhammad and Muslims. Why blame us?

Back it up please!

Another glorious lie, why lie for christ na?

Another lie, I've been through this with lads like you. It'll end badly for you!

How did Christians get hold of this "Christian world", was it through preaching or bloodshed?

Demmzy15:
Cc DirewolfofStark

DirewolfofStark:


Surprisingly even the koran, as unreliable and fabricated as it is, says that Allah gave the promised land to the Israelites:

And (remember) when Moses said unto his people: O my people! Remember Allah's favour unto you, how He placed among you prophets, and He made you kings, and gave you that (which) He gave not to any (other) of (His) creatures. O my people! Go into the holy land which Allah hath ordained for you. Turn not in flight, for surely ye turn back as losers: They said: O Moses! Lo! a giant people (dwell) therein and lo! we go not in till they go forth from thence. When they go forth from thence, then we will enter (not till then). Then out spake two of those who feared (their Lord, men) unto whom Allah had been gracious: Enter in upon them by the gate, for if ye enter by it, lo! ye will be victorious. So put your trust (in Allah) if ye are indeed believers. They said: O Moses! We will never enter (the land) while they are in it. So go thou and thy Lord and fight! We will sit here. He said: My Lord! I have control of none but myself and my brother, so distinguish between us and the wrong-doing folk. (Their Lord) said: For this the land will surely be forbidden them for forty years that they will wander in the earth, bewildered. So grieve not over the wrongdoing folk. S. 5:20-26 Pickthall

Demmzy15:
This was in reference to the children of Israel under Moses not state of Israel under Benyamin Netanyahu, know the differences!