Obaluf0n:


It is in Samuel Johnson's account of Yoruba history. He was around at this time and was a living witness to the events that occurred when Ibadan became the major power.

When I'm settled I'll post a screen shot of the page I read it.

Ok I'll be glad to know...

Bagehot:


The Alaafin is actually a superior king to the Ooni.

According to Legend, when Oduduwa was sharing his territory to his Sons, his most vallant - Oranmiyan was away at war. Upon Oranmiyan's return , he was given Oyo and dominion over his brothers - the original blood-lines of Oduduwa (Sabe, Popo, Ketu, Orangun, Owu).

You have only recounted Oyo's mythical back up of Oyo's military might; it is not a fact.

Concerning Ife, there is a split over the story, Samuel Johnson (the legendary yoruba historian) wrote that the Ooni was actually the Chief Priest in Ife and was made ruler when Oduduwa died, hence the title 'O o ni' (You don't own it). the flip-side to the story is that in the absence of Oduduwa's legitimate sons upon his death, his illegitimate Son (born by his maid) - Obalufon became king, but was later deposed by Oranmiyan upon his return from his sojourn, who ordered that the kingship be given to him and hence back to the legitimate family of Oduduwa. Oranmiyan's son Lajamisan was therefore the progenitor of all of the Oonis that have reigned in Ife from his time till now.

The slave woman story is also Oyo's version of Ife history. Samuel Johnson's work is total myth in the areas of tradition of origin but factual with the records of Yoruba wars & 18th/19th century politics.

-- From the socio-cultural arrangement of Ife, you'd see that each deity has offsprings who still live in these compounds as started by the deities and chief priests are selected as well as propitiation activities are done by the compounds not the Ooni. This shows the chief priest story is false.

-- As for the flipside, after Oduduwa passed & with his sons out of town. The throne fell back in the hands of the rightful rulers of Ife; the Obatala's group who ruled till Oranmiyan came back & waged war like his father did.

-- The slave is Orunto and the Orunto family compound produce Obalufe not the Ooni.

-- Ooni was coined as a result Oduduwa winning the war but the the clan heads (who are now deities) owning their respective lands. This is still in effect in Ife. Ooni & Ooni royal compounds do not own any expanse of lands like Isoro or Aworo chiefs.

Would have to check, but I think there is a traditional appellation for the Alaafin signalling that he is Oduduwa's heir.

Ife throne was founded by Oduduwa.

Osile Egba, Oyo, Bini & Ife dynasties were started by Oranmiyan.

In Ife, Oranmiyan succeeded his father's throne.

In the other places he started a new throne.

AreaFada2:


This is the main issue with many SW people. All they see is population size of a tribe in a country forced together by the British. A fact that was even used to hound GEJ in government.

You simply forget that until about 250 years ago, there was no uniform Yourba nation. You were seen as Egba, Awori, Ijebu, Owo, Oyo and so on. Only Oyo really reached its Zenith, with a considerable empire before Afonja betrayal. Forget about how the Ibadan & Owo came to repel the Jihadists. They were fighting for their own freedom too.

What you and other revisionists forget is that Benin had to give up its right over large former territories far & near effectively in 1897 (British invasion) and officially in 1914 in order for the British to restore the monarchy.

Benin is important to Yoruba for several reasons including:

(a) It gave Oduduwa to Ife. And Oduduwa is father of several Yoruba monarchs.

(2) It had territories in Eastern Yorubaland. Ondo/Ekiti. The boundary agreed between Aare Ona Kakanfo of Oyo empire & Iyase Epkenede of Benin Empire was at Otun (today in Northern Ekiti). Owo Royal Court culture & royal dressing is still reminiscent of Benin royal tradition. As it can also be observed in Olu of Warri palace in Delta and many other places.

(3) Esipka/Asipa & Prince Ado, both from Benin founded Lagos monarchy. It brought a sophisticated system of government and military culture. Lagos monarchy remained faithful to Benin until 1851 when the British removed Oba Kosoko. Even Oba Akintoye still confirmed his obligations to Oba of Benin to the British in 1853.

It is like saying that because Rome was initially a small farming settlement on the Tiber, it couldn't have influenced European history that much. Or because Italy is an average European power today, it couldn't have influenced world history in antiquity.

I have another example of SW people's obsession with minority having no relevance.

I have a minority tribe friend who graduated first class from Nigeria's premier university. He works abroad now. Each time their fellow Europeans want to understand the frequent crisis in Africa, they ask the minority guy. Because over the years, their European colleagues who care only about competence and skills have come to appreciate his excellence in African history & politics.

But behind his back, SW colleagues keep telling (showing backbiting prowess again) the Europeans that he's just a minority tribe and therefore knows nothing. Perplexed Europeans were asking the minority guy why his countrymen are so weird to link ability to tribe.

Obviously they are jealous of him. Real life thing even here in Europe.

Lol, haven't you seen the naive one Obaluf0n, he keeps spewing trash all over the place, i countered his assertions by schooling him on some parts he didn't even know cos he doesn't even read and he couldn't even come up with a viable defense or counter my facts buh like the low life insecured tribe that they are resorted to insults and throwing jibes. Imagine him saying the Oba has no influence aside benin...another one said Oba is a yoruba title forgetting that up until around the late 1800s the only Monarch called Oba is the Oba of Benin...Well they can only decieve themselves...

Mynd44:
Really?

Oba of Lagos?
Olubadan who is almost just a baale?

Let the Awujale, Alake, Soun etc hear fess.

i see...u dare call the olubadan if Ibadan A baale...weldone sir

The op forgt say sultan pas Sanusi accordin tp their hierarchy sanusi mayb arnd 6/7

Bagehot:


The Alaafin is actually a superior king to the Ooni.

According to Legend, when Oduduwa was sharing his territory to his Sons, his most vallant - Oranmiyan was away at war. Upon Oranmiyan's return , he was given Oyo and dominion over his brothers - the original blood-lines of Oduduwa (Sabe, Popo, Ketu, Orangun, Owu).

Concerning Ife, there is a split over the story, Samuel Johnson (the legendary yoruba historian) wrote that the Ooni was actually the Chief Priest in Ife and was made ruler when Oduduwa died, hence the title 'O o ni' (You don't own it). the flip-side to the story is that in the absence of Oduduwa's legitimate sons upon his death, his illegitimate Son (born by his maid) - Obalufon became king, but was later deposed by Oranmiyan upon his return from his sojourn, who ordered that the kingship be given to him and hence back to the legitimate family of Oduduwa. Oranmiyan's son Lajamisan was therefore the progenitor of all of the Oonis that have reigned in Ife from his time till now.

Would have to check, but I think there is a traditional appellation for the Alaafin signalling that he is Oduduwa's heir.

Your history knowledge has been diluted.

Ooni is never a chief priest, the throne was created by Oduduwa himself and he was the first on the throne. Obalufe was the second in command and he acted as such after the demise of Oduduwa, he never mounted Ooni throne. When oranyan came back, he ordered the throne to be given back to him.

We are even taking history from the existence of Oduduwa, not after when Oranyan came back to rule. Oranyan is the last son of numerous sons of Oduduwa now, that is later years. He was the 6th Ooni. That is 13th century

Oduduwa built an effective centralized power and dynasty as the first Ooni and progenitor of the legitimate kings of the Yoruba race.
No throne nears his.

And I don't know of any chief priest throne you're referring to.
The only powerful Orisa in Ife I read about is Obatala, he was ruling in Ife before Oduduwa deposed him.

Obatala is the Sky Father and the creator of human bodies, which were brought to life by Olodumare's smooth breath. Obatala is the father of all Orishas.

Obatala is Olodumare's Second son. He is the one authorized by Olodumare to create land over the water beneath the sky, and it is he whom according to history founded the first Yoruba city, which is Ife. Obatala is Olodumare's representative on earth.

His status is in Bahia (Latin America) as dated and he his celebrated in a yearly festival in El Salvador.

History has always been my best subject, and I strive to know more.
We are all learning more on this thread though, but I will research your claim.

SHALOM!

This reminds me of an Oyinbo Folk-Songwriter, who was had Writer's Block, and accidentally discovered a vital secret of songwriting.

He took his uncompleted song to several Pubs in different towns as he travelled, asking the people there if they knew other verses to this song he had?

Of course, the boozers merrily composed new verses for him on-the-fly.

By telling us that he was giving us a list of "FULL LIST OF FIRST CLASS KINGS," the " 'Orrible Poster" has provoked readers into telling him who they are, for free.

If he had just asked you, you probably would not have responded.

peterpen:


Lol, haven't you seen the naive one Obaluf0n, he keeps spewing trash all over the place, i countered his assertions by schooling him on some parts he didn't even know cos he doesn't even read and he couldn't even come up with a viable defense or counter my facts buh like the low life insecured tribe that they are resorted to insults and throwing jibes. Imagine him saying the Oba has no influence aside benin...another one said Oba is a yoruba title forgetting that up until around the late 1800s the only Monarch called Oba is the Oba of Benin...Well they can only decieve themselves...

Lool.

The airhead calling the London trained diplomat who co-signed a meme as a fact

Here: https://www.nairaland.com/3614737/lagos-govt-unveils-statue-first/5

Read from that page 5 and see how your AreaFada's argument was trumped by O0ni. In case you get curious; O0ni was my handle which I deactivated when a brother unveiled my old handle. Now that my hand has been forced here, I'll have to delete this too but not without putting you in your place properly.

You nor even call PhysicsED na AreaFada the diplomat

shinel:



Your history knowledge has been diluted.

Ooni is never a chief priest, the throne was created by Oduduwa himself and he was the first on the throne. Obalufe was the second in command and he acted as such after the demise of Oduduwa, he never mounted Ooni throne. When oranyan came back, he ordered the throne to be given back to him.

We are even taking history from the existence of Oduduwa, not after when Oranyan came back to rule. Oranyan is the last son of numerous sons of Oduduwa now, that is later years. He was the 6th Ooni. That is 13th century

Oduduwa built an effective centralized power and dynasty as the first Ooni and progenitor of the legitimate kings of the Yoruba race.
No throne nears his.

And I don't know of any chief priest throne you're referring to.
The only powerful Orisa in Ife I read about is Obatala, he was ruling in Ife before Oduduwa deposed him.

Obatala is the Sky Father and the creator of human bodies, which were brought to life by Olodumare's smooth breath. Obatala is the father of all Orishas.

Obatala is Olodumare's Second son. He is the one authorized by Olodumare to create land over the water beneath the sky, and it is he whom according to history founded the first Yoruba city, which is Ife. Obatala is Olodumare's representative on earth.

His status is in Bahia (Latin America) as dated and he his celebrated in a yearly festival in El Salvador.

History has always been my best subject, and I strive to know more.
We are all learning more on this thread though, but I will research your claim.

Shinel stole my heart with this post.

Are you a historian?

Bagehot:


Lol The Oba of Benin greater than the Alaafin. Na so. The Oba of Benin has a lot of cultural relevance - agreed. What most people dont realize is that the cultural relevance was actually propagated by the British. Benin is a coastal town, hence the British came in contact with them first, and were wowed by the african kingdom with complex governance structures, amazing art and lit streets. The british only found out about Oyo much later. Oyo probably had a much more complex governance structure with it's Ogboni, Ilari, Bashorun Gaa, Aare-Ona Kankanfo e.t.c with several checks and balances so that the King could not be too tyrannical. Oyo also ruled over a much larger land mass than Benin, with its empire spreading all the way to modern-day Togo and Benin. Both Obas are great, but none towers over the other.

well said

Obaluf0n:


Lool.

The airhead calling the London trained diplomat who co-signed a meme as a fact

Here: https://www.nairaland.com/3614737/lagos-govt-unveils-statue-first/5

Read from that page 5 and see how your AreaFada's argument was trumped by O0ni. In case you get curious; O0ni was my handle which I deactivated when a brother unveiled my old handle. Now that my hand has been forced here, I'll have to delete this too but not without putting you in your place properly.

You nor even call PhysicsED na AreaFada the diplomat

Mr Airhead, shouting airhead all over nairaland you don't know nothing...You still haven't answered my questions you stylishly dodged it and resorted to insults typical of yorubas who are so pained about the supremacy of the Benin kingdom/£mpire...you shot yourself by sharing that link cos everything there shows you are ignorant and I feel so sick even coming down to your level to school you cos i can see you enjoy basking in the euphoria of your ignorance....You even foolishly went far to show not only stupidity but ignorance by saying Benin was never an empire....i give up on....
get lost you are a beer parlour historian...come back when you are have acquired enough knowledge on Benin Yoruba history.....

Benin Kingdom/£mpire is great, live with it



Don't ever quote me again, get away from me with your ignorance and bitterness....AreaFada2, KingOvoramwen1 please dont quote this psycho, he is the notorious O0ni, I am sure he will deactivate after this like he has always been doing...

peterpen:


Mr Airhead, shouting airhead all over nairaland you don't know nothing...You still haven't answered my questions you stylishly dodged it and resorted to insults typical of yorubas who are so pained about the supremacy of the Benin kingdom/£mpire...you shot yourself by sharing that link cos everything there shows you are ignorant and I feel so sick even coming down to your level to school you cos i can see you enjoy basking in the euphoria of your ignorance....You even foolishly went far to show not only stupidity but ignorance by saying Benin was never an empire....i give up on....
get lost you are a beer parlour historian...come back when you are have acquired enough knowledge on Benin Yoruba history.....

Benin Kingdom/£mpire is great, live with it



Don't ever quote me again, get away from me with your ignorance and bitterness....AreaFada2, KingOvoramwen1 please dont quote this psycho, he is the notorious O0ni, I am sure he will deactivate after this like he has always been doing...

Lol too emotional.

Take a seat and read that link.

You do not worth getting debated.

'Notorious O0ni' I see I gave Bini revisionist olodo nightmares on NL. I see I really made the gaps in your flimsy history obvious to the public

And yes, I will delete the handle and sign up with another, it is none of your business.

Obaluf0n:



Lol too emotional.

Take a seat and read that link.

You do not worth getting debated.

'Notorious O0ni' I see I gave Bini revisionist olodo nightmares on NL. I see I really made the gaps in your flimsy history obvious to the public

And yes, I will delete the handle and sign up with another, it is none of your business.

well i just did, u were really disgracing urself, not different from what u are doing now, still disgracing urself..


"And yes, I will delete the handle and sign up with another, it is none of your business" yea cos ur a double faced coward who gets trumped each time he displays his lunatic antics


I will so ignore u from now on u will be forced to question ur existence

peterpen:

well i just did, u were really disgracing urself, not different from what u are doing now, still disgracing urself..


"And yes, I will delete the handle and sign up with another, it is none of your business" yea cos ur a double faced coward who gets trumped each time he displays his lunatic antics


I will so ignore u from now on u will be forced to question ur existence

I see you're active when it comes to side crap talks but you lack anything in that head to add something of substance to the actual topic of the thread.

AreaFada's boy

Heehehehehhehehe. Another fresh food for the tribal warriors....

AreaFada2:


This is the main issue with many SW people. All they see is population size of a tribe in a country forced together by the British. A fact that was even used to hound GEJ in government.

You simply forget that until about 250 years ago, there was no uniform Yourba nation. You were seen as Egba, Awori, Ijebu, Owo, Oyo and so on. Only Oyo really reached its Zenith, with a considerable empire before Afonja betrayal. Forget about how the Ibadan & Owo came to repel the Jihadists. They were fighting for their own freedom too.

What you and other revisionists forget is that Benin had to give up its right over large former territories far & near effectively in 1897 (British invasion) and officially in 1914 in order for the British to restore the monarchy.

Benin is important to Yoruba for several reasons including:

(a) It gave Oduduwa to Ife. And Oduduwa is father of several Yoruba monarchs.

(2) It had territories in Eastern Yorubaland. Ondo/Ekiti. The boundary agreed between Aare Ona Kakanfo of Oyo empire & Iyase Epkenede of Benin Empire was at Otun (today in Northern Ekiti). Owo Royal Court culture & royal dressing is still reminiscent of Benin royal tradition. As it can also be observed in Olu of Warri palace in Delta and many other places.

(3) Esipka/Asipa & Prince Ado, both from Benin founded Lagos monarchy. It brought a sophisticated system of government and military culture. Lagos monarchy remained faithful to Benin until 1851 when the British removed Oba Kosoko. Even Oba Akintoye still confirmed his obligations to Oba of Benin to the British in 1853.

It is like saying that because Rome was initially a small farming settlement on the Tiber, it couldn't have influenced European history that much. Or because Italy is an average European power today, it couldn't have influenced world history in antiquity.

I have another example of SW people's obsession with minority having no relevance.

I have a minority tribe friend who graduated first class from Nigeria's premier university. He works abroad now. Each time their fellow Europeans want to understand the frequent crisis in Africa, they ask the minority guy. Because over the years, their European colleagues who care only about competence and skills have come to appreciate his excellence in African history & politics.

But behind his back, SW colleagues keep telling (showing backbiting prowess again) the Europeans that he's just a minority tribe and therefore knows nothing. Perplexed Europeans were asking the minority guy why his countrymen are so weird to link ability to tribe.

Obviously they are jealous of him. Real life thing even here in Europe.

We are the same people irrespective of dialect..it doesnt matter if we call ourselves ijebu, okun or ekiti or awori. Sameway someone from liverpool sees himself as English just like a manchunian, geordie or londoner.

e.g Derin Ologbenla, an ife warlord and prince fought for the liberation of the osemawe in ondo. In this expedition, he assembled other warlords from abeokuta, Owu, Origbo, Ijesha, Offa and Oyo. Oyo during his military reign had soldiers from all over the south western part of Nigeria. Queen Moremi was an Offa princess that got married to an Ooni. What does all these tell you? It tells me that...we are one people, speak the same language and we all love our amala and ewedu.... lol. We were conquering far away dynasties of dahomey and ashanti while your little kingdom of benin was busy flexing muscle with Owo town and awori pepper farmers in lagos island. Your little benin got nothing on us . As small as edo state is...what is the percentage of benin people in the state sef? i would really love to know

Odu-to-da-iwa WAS never a benin prince like you claimed. He is an 100% ife man. Oduduwa was an emissary from the community of Oke-Ora (Ora hills), the easternmost part of the Ife area. He descended from the hills on a chain, earning the oriki 'atewonro' meaning 'one who descends on a chain'. At that time, a Confederacy existed between the 13 communities of the valley of Ile-Ife, with each community or 'Elu' with its own Oba; Oba of Ijugbe, Oba of Ijio, Oba of Iwinrin etc.
When Oduduwa rose to be a prominent citizen of ancient Ife, he and his group are believed to have conquered most of the 13 component communities and deposed Obatala , subsequently evolving the palace structure with its effective centralized power. Going by the tribal records, he is commonly referred to as the first Ooni of Ife and progenitor of the legitimate kings of the Yoruba people. The forest the current ooni emerged from as part of his coronation rights was the oke-ora hills. Stop this benin nonsense of exiled prince. ko le werk. Ife was civilized years before benin. We schooled you in arts.

If not for civilization, your people would still be sending ife, the severed head of your late obas. lol.

Benin has no history without mentioning Yoruba, but the Yoruba history doesn't recognize Benin. The ancestors of the Oba of Benin were Yorubas. At the height of Benin Empire's glory, Yoruba was the official palace language!

Besides, Benin never had an empire until a Yoruba prince (oranmiyan) came to rule it. The Ogiso was a village chief, not an emperor! So show much respect to the Yorubas.

Finally, with respect to us being one people.
Ile-Ife is our Jerusalem, Mecca and Medina - spiritual home.
Oyo is our administrative home.
Ibadan is our military Headquarter.

Haters can hug a 5000kva transformer under an heavy rain

kind regards.


Ife Terracota head 1100 AD.

[quote author=shinarambo1 post=54698448]
W

shinarambo1:

We are the same people irrespective of dialect..it doesnt matter if we call ourselves ijebu, okun or ekiti or awori. Sameway someone from liverpool sees himself as English just like a manchunian, geordie or londoner.

e.g Derin Ologbenla, an ife warlord and prince fought for the liberation of the osemawe in ondo. In this expedition, he assembled other warlords from abeokuta, Owu, Origbo, Ijesha, Offa and Oyo. Oyo during his military reign had soldiers from all over the south western part of Nigeria. Queen Moremi was an Offa princess that got married to an Ooni. What does all these tell you? It tells me that...we are one people, speak the same language and we all love our amala and ewedu.... lol. We were conquering far away dynasties of dahomey and ashanti while your little kingdom of benin was busy flexing muscle with Owo town and awori pepper farmers in lagos island. Your little benin got nothing on us . As small as edo state is...what is the percentage of benin people in the state sef? i would really love to know

Odu-to-da-iwa WAS never a benin prince like you claimed. He is an 100% ife man. Oduduwa was an emissary from the community of Oke-Ora (Ora hills), the easternmost part of the Ife area. He descended from the hills on a chain, earning the oriki 'atewonro' meaning 'one who descends on a chain'. At that time, a Confederacy existed between the 13 communities of the valley of Ile-Ife, with each community or 'Elu' with its own Oba; Oba of Ijugbe, Oba of Ijio, Oba of Iwinrin etc.
When Oduduwa rose to be a prominent citizen of ancient Ife, he and his group are believed to have conquered most of the 13 component communities and deposed Obatala , subsequently evolving the palace structure with its effective centralized power. Going by the tribal records, he is commonly referred to as the first Ooni of Ife and progenitor of the legitimate kings of the Yoruba people. The forest the current ooni emerged from as part of his coronation rights was the oke-ora hills. Stop this benin nonsense of exiled prince. ko le werk. Ife was civilized years before benin. We schooled you in arts.

If not for civilization, your people would still be sending ife, the severed head of your late obas. lol.

Benin has no history without mentioning Yoruba, but the Yoruba history doesn't recognize Benin. The ancestors of the Oba of Benin were Yorubas. At the height of Benin Empire's glory, Yoruba was the official palace language!

Besides, Benin never had an empire until a Yoruba prince (oranmiyan) came to rule it. The Ogiso was a village chief, not an emperor! So show much respect to the Yorubas.

Finally, with respect to us being one people.
Ile-Ife is our Jerusalem, Mecca and Medina - spiritual home.
Oyo is our administrative home.
Ibadan is our military Headquarter.

Haters can hug a 5000kva transformer under an heavy rain

kind regards.


Ife Terracota head 1100 AD.

Hahahahahahaha!

Your satire is very funny indeed.

You know even KG or garri school kids won't be fooled by this fable.

They have long known that there is no Father Christmas from the North Pole.

With the level of education of SW people, still holding on to descending from a hill with chain, crossing the sea from Yemen or Israel, crossing the desert from Egypt/Sudan versions are really funny.

It used to be said by SW people that he descended from heaven with chain. Knowing how ridiculous that is, they quickly located a hill.

How did he ascend the hill previously from wherever? Using a teleporting machine like Dr Who?

Hahahahahaha. Na wa o.

Oduduwa don suffer. See versions. Some said he was running away from Arab invaders in Egypt and ran across the desert to the hamlet of Ife in the thick forest of all places. Na wa .
Now he was a messenger. What versions will come up next time? An omodo, a charcoal boy, a drummer boy or which?

The credible version is this: he was a Benin Prince from Benin. Well schooled in court etiquette, leadership and how to manage intrigues in the sophisticated Benin Ogiso palace. Remember there were over 33 Ogiso/Oba-godo before this time. More than enough to be fully established.

It was his gallant and impressive royal leadership personality that Benin crown princes learn from childhood that had the citizens of the little village of Ife eating from his palms easily.

No really established land welcomes a total stranger without an impressive army just like that.

Take for example: When Oranmiyan got to Benin, he never even set foot inside Benin. The powerful established aristocracy of Benin would not let him. The local lords had their own armies in the interregnum. He never reached the Ogiso palace.

It took 5 generations from Oranmiyan, precisely Oba Ewedo, to conquer the powerful local lords and their descendants. And access Benin City proper. Something recently displayed in a mock battle during coronation of Oba Ewuare II a few months ago.

So Yoruba owe Benin their monarchy.

The very many versions of Oduduwa from SW people shows that they are just making up versions as they go along. All very inconsistent.

Whereas Benin people have a consistent version. History lives & breaths in Benin. So tampering with it is virtually impossible.

AreaFada2:


Hahahahahahaha!

Your satire is very funny indeed.

You know even KG or garri school kids won't be fooled by this fable.

They have long known that there is no Father Christmas from North Pole.

with the level of education of SW people, still holding on to descending from hill with chain, crossing the sea from Yemen or Israel, crossing the desert from Egypt/Sudan versions is really funny.

It used to be said by SW people that he descended from heaven with chain. Knowing how ridiculous that is, the quickly located a hill.

How did he ascend the hill previously from wherever? Using a teleporting machine like Dr Who?

Hahahahahaha. Na wa o.

Oduduwa don suffer. See versions. Some said he was running away from Arab invaders in Egypt and ran across the desert to the hamlet of Ife in the thick forest of all places. Na wa .
Now he was a messenger. What versions will come up next time? An omodo, a charcoal boy, a drummer boy or which?

The credible version is this: he was a Benin Prince from Benin. Well schooled in court etiquette, leadership and how to manage intrigues in the sophisticated Benin Ogiso palace. Remember there were over 33 Ogiso/Oba-godo before this time. More than enough to be fully established.

It was his gallant and impressive royal leadership personality that Benin crown princes learn from childhood that had the citizens of the little village of Ife eating from his palms easily.

No really established land welcomes a total stranger without an impressive army just like that.

Take for example: When Oranmiyan got to Benin, he never even set foot inside Benin. The powerful established aristocracy of Benin would not let him. The local lords had their own armies in the interregnum. He never reached the Ogiso palace.

It took 5 generations from Oranmiyan, precisely Oba Ewedo to conquer the powerful local lords and their descendants. And access Benin City proper. Something recently displayed in a mock battle during coronation of Oba Ewuare a few months ago.

So Yoruba owe Benin their monarchy.

The very many versions of Oduduwa from SW people shows that they are just making up versions as they go along. All very inconsistent.

Whereas Benin people have a consistent version. History lives & breath in Benin. So tampering with it is virtually impossible.

Good one sir school this liars, imagine their fairy tale, have you forgotten so soon the version of oduduwa falling from heaven as the son of orisa(God)....stupid fairy tales, even kids know the truth..




One other thing boss, these people propagate lies via the internet with various blogs...I suggest you open a well detailed Website, (not just a useless blog) were these fact will be well documented with citations cos the lie is fast spreading.....


Imagine, we were having this argument the other day and someone said benin came from yoruba, i asked him how he knew, he said he googled it, after checking these sites it was found that all the authors were yoruba propagandist, The version on wikipedia have been adulterated times without numbers and people have tendecies to belive anything on wikipedia forgetting that peeps like them can edit it anytime, It will be awesome if people like you Go back and edit these things on wikipedia and make sure you disable editing by these yoruba peeps, i think there is a way to stop this people from adulterating these information's...

peterpen:


Good one sir school this liars, imagine their fairy tale, have you forgotten so soon the version of oduduwa falling from heaven as the son of orisa(God)....stupid fairy tales, even kids know the truth..




One other thing boss, these people propagate lies via the internet with various blogs...I suggest you open a well detailed Website, (not just a useless blog) were these fact will be well documented with citations cos the lie is fast spreading.....


Imagine, we were having this argument the other day and someone said benin came from yoruba, i asked him how he knew, he said he googled it, after checking these sites it was found that all the authors were yoruba propagandist, The version on wikipedia have been adulterated times without numbers and people have tendecies to belive anything on wikipedia forgetting that peeps like them can edit it anytime, It will be awesome if people like you Go back and edit these things on wikipedia and make sure you disable editing by these yoruba peeps, i think there is a way to stop this people from adulterating these information's...

Thank you boss.

I have heard similar suggestions (website/book) over the years. But I'm a rather very busy person. I have also discussed it with an elderly relative who has written many books on Edo history/culture/tradition. Even film ideas because reading culture is dying fast. All are time and resource consuming. This is where our currently unemployed youths could come in with their IT savvy. The smaller the population of a tribe, the fewer the number who will be conversant with history. Or feel obliged to seek the truth and publicly defend it.

I have found myself up against many SW here over the years. With their many infantile versions of Oduduwa. But I'm not deterred because my position is simple and has been consistent. They can come in their hundreds. They all will just bring more ridiculous versions of history.

Exiled Prince Ekhaderhan of Benin wandering about 70 miles to Owo area first, and another roughly 70 miles to Ife is far more likely. Compared to using chain or teleporting from whatever hill. It even matches the current geographic reality.

Benin version is scientific, plausible & would pass scientific & historical scrutiny even 500 years from now. No magic in it.

You know with rampant inter-tribal marriages these days, many kids are growing up without much native language & history knowledge. I have nothing against such marriages.

The reason I find time to respond to attention seekers here is because many silent readers might believe them. Some people believe just about anything they read anywhere.

So the record has to be set straight. Otherwise I'd prefer not to dignify their fallacies.

Where is Emir of Zazzau

There is really no debate to be had over Oduduwa's background or source.

Here are the facts or pointers if you will:

1. Traditional festivals or activities, when placed under the lenses of research, provide unwritten history into the activities of the past - dramatist persona, places, things said, artifacts.

--- During Ooni coronations do the Ooni elects descend from the sky? No.

--- During Ooni coronations are any references made to Egypt, Mecca & Canaan? No.

--- During Ooni coronations are references made to Ogiso or Benin or Ekaledahern? No.

--- During the Ooni coronations, do the Ooni elects go to historical sites regarded as the home Oduduwa? Yes.

2. Archeology gives History writing a hand in reaching into the almost oblivious past.

--- Have any artifacts been excavated across Yoruba land and neighbouring towns showing settlements or people existed around the time or before Ife & Oduduwa? Yes.

---Where? Iwo Eleru dated 13,000 years & Sungbo Eredo 800-1000 AD

--- Have any pre-10th century artifacts been excavated in Bini? No, apart from the Great Wall of Benin, every other artifacts date from 12th/13th century but stone axes depicts life/settlement in the Bini area since late stone age. Nothing of note from pre-historic times have been excavated in Edo/Benin.

3. Have any artifacts been excavated in Ife dating further back into the past & further legitimizing the theory of being the center for earliest Yoruba civilization? Yes as far back as 350BCE.

--- Where? Virtually every part of Ife
Idena, Olokun forest, Yeemo grove, Iraye, Morire, Iremo, Oke Ora and so on

4. Ife people generally believe Oduduwa with a host of his relatives & other people lived on the hills in Ife from whence they descended and now occupy Idio in Ife. Has archeology refuted or given credence to life on the hills?

--- Yes, excavations from Oke Ora indicated that there was indeed life/settlement on the hill that existed side by side & similar to life/settlement in the valleys.

Here: https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=tb-IAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA207&lpg=PA207&dq=eluyemi+oke+ora&source=bl&ots=m1Qdu4vt2j&sig=Gv5yzBLajJBdsG0UFOTKBcEywew&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=eluyemi%20oke%20ora&f=true

5. Does Ife throne in the earliest times and now have any traces of imports from Ogiso or anywhere in Edo region?

--- Since the earliest period to the most recent times, there has never been one tiniest phenomenon to indicate Oduduwa was from anywhere outside Ife not to mention Benin. They have never been able to substantiate their claims with any tiniest traces between Ife throne & Ogiso system, not one!

Conclusively, while history unlike other disciplines may now be everyone's overnight specialization where they can concoct shenanigans -- archeology on the other hand has not in anyway given credence or given the Benin history of early existence, Ogiso & Ekaledehen any reason to be taken seriously. To understand Yoruba early history properly, it is required that the spiritual system of the Yoruba be known; this is in order to avoid the corruption of the pronunciation, meaning & etymology of certain Yoruba culture heroes. For example; Odu To Da Iwa means a vessel/container that created/brought existence/character. This is different in meaning from Izoduwa which the Bini claim to be their lost prince. For better understanding of Oduduwa as a word & application, in our time Buhari is the Odu that brought fight against corruption, Stephen Keshi was the Odu that brought improvements to Super Eagles team etc. In Yoruba creation story, Oduduwa is a co-creation deity whose name was adopted for the warrior Ife man who conquered the 13 hamlets, unified them and started a new socio political arrangement of the place. The lack of the knowledge of the etymology of the word, the history behind it and its application to humans gave birth to the corrupt version of the Bini history. This can be seen in the name they call Oranmiyan which is Omononyan, a name with a clearly different meaning. Of course, this is so because they lack the understanding of the etymology, application and meaning of the name -- all they needed was/is to look for a similarly sounding word from their language usually with a different meaning and go with it. Another example is Ife which they call Uhe with of course a very different meaning. Ooni is another example; Oghenne with of course a very different meaning.

Obaluf0n:


It is in Samuel Johnson's account of Yoruba history. He was around at this time and was a living witness to the events that occurred when Ibadan became the major power.

When I'm settled I'll post a screen shot of the page I read it.

Are you settled yet sir?

stinggy:

Are you settled yet sir?

I'm looking for the document.
I know it was a precolonial material - reason I thought it was in Johnson's work. I'll revert once I find it in my stockpile of materisls.

Damn, can't believe it took two months.

I found it late last month but totally forgot about our post here. You are the reason I stopped being active because I promised never to post anything else till I find what you asked. To save myself from looking like I'm making mogus claims I can not back up.

E jo e ma binu for the delay.

Obaluf0n:
.

Asides from the economy & social clout Lagos weilds, Oba of Lagos lacks any cultural relevance tohave been rated first class - except ofcourse the economy & social status of a state affects the class of a king?

Oba Eko is in the same class as Olugbo, Olubadan, Soun, Timi, Ataoja and any throne created or rests on the monarchical relevance or power of another throne & not triggered by cultural system.

----

Alaafin of Oyo throne is still occupied by the blood line of original Alaafin but a lot of things attached to that throne had gotten lost as a result of its migration from Oyo Ile to Ago Oja. Oyo derived its relevance from military expenditions which it never had over Ife throne (another history entirely). Oyo throne should not be classed ahead of Ife; if military might is the determining factor then Olubadan should be ranked before Alaafinas it is a known fact that Alaafin Oyo paid tributes to Baale (now Olubadan) Ibadan & was under Ibadan's military might till the colonial period.

---

Seeing Emir ranked before Sultan makes it obvious the compiler of this list is not a very bright person.

----

Bini throne is overrated.

The installation procession of a throne tells a lot about the historical relevance it holds. A quick look at the installation procession of the Bini throne and the reverence accorded to it by the Bini shows it is an exagerrated seat. Outside of Bini, the throne does not command much respect nor influence & it has no lasting imprint anywhere outside Edo areas - save for few towns around it.


The Bini throne is in the class of Owa Ijesaland & monarchs in that league.

----

u are d biggest fool on earth I swear wat do u knw abt history wat do u knw abt binin kingdom u cowardd, oba of benin is like a God not only in edo including d federation, for oba of benin to be on dis list is even an insult to his personality

VastFinder:


Source: http://www.thistrend.com.ng/2017/03/full-list-of-first-class-kings-in.html

abeg remove dat tin of lagos he z only enjoying d influentiality of lagos.

stinggy:

Are you settled yet sir?

Sir, I found what I was looking for. Ibadan at its peak imposed an Ooni, selected an Owa Ijesa, controlles trade routes to Egba and Ijebu -- Ibadan controlled the entire present day Yoruba land and usurped positions reserved for the Alaafin to determine (Aare ona Kakanfo and Basorun). Ibadan did not stop here; Ibadan demanded the Alaafin send beere leaves to the Balogun (Ogubmola or Ibikunle) to build his Kobi which Alaafin complied to. Now, sending beere grass is part of the tributes all Oyo towns pay to Alaafin annually to re-design his palace with ans it was also a sign of submission to overlordship of Alaafin. Reverse was thr case with Ibadan during the time of Balogun Ibikunle or Ogunmola.

I am sorry for the delay, I had to pull out all my books and started reading cover to cover when I could not find anything just skimming through. I ended up finding it in Samuel Johnson's work -- please see Samuel Johnson. I will try to get you a screen shot during the week. I think I tagged the page on my iPad

Obaluf0n:


Sir, I found what I was looking for. Ibadan at its peak imposed an Ooni, selected an Owa Ijesa, controlles trade routes to Egba and Ijebu -- Ibadan controlled the entire present day Yoruba land and usurped positions reserved for the Alaafin to determine (Aare ona Kakanfo and Basorun). Ibadan did not stop here; Ibadan demanded the Alaafin send beere leaves to the Balogun (Ogubmola or Ibikunle) to build his Kobi which Alaafin complied to. Now, sending beere grass is part of the tributes all Oyo towns pay to Alaafin annually to re-design his palace with ans it was also a sign of submission to overlordship of Alaafin. Reverse was thr case with Ibadan during the time of Balogun Ibikunle or Ogunmola.

I am sorry for the delay, I had to pull out all my books and started reading cover to cover when I could not find anything just skimming through. I ended up finding it in Samuel Johnson's work -- please see Samuel Johnson. I will try to get you a screen shot during the week. I think I tagged the page on my iPad

I'll go through his book when I have the time sir, thanks.

Ibadan rode on so many at her peak and it is possible they disrespected a fearful Alaafin at the short time (probably before a braver one came by again), but at first you sounded like it became a regular occurence.

stinggy:

I'll go through his book when I have the time sir, thanks.

Ibadan rode on so many at her peak and it is possible they disrespected a fearful Alaafin at the short time (probably before a braver one came by again), but at first you sounded like it became a regular occurence.

Egbon mi, what cut Ibadan's dominance short was the interference of returnee folks with Ijesa ancestry who created war corps trained in precision (foreign style) shooting and better guns compared to that of Ibadan army that relied on dane guns ans local style of combat thay was good but not adequate enough to dislodge the Ijesa. Also, missionary activities and colonialism contributed to fhe truncation of Ibadan's prominence - people got tired and sought for peace in western lifestyle.

If not for the above factors Ibadan imposing an Ooni, Ibadan imposing an Owa Ilesa, Ibadan collecting tributes from entire Ijesa and Ekiti and lastl, Ibadan reversing subordinate role to Alaafin in tribute payment would have been a regular occurence because a precedence had already been set and they were slowly stripping Alaafin of his supremacy by creating Basorun office outside Oyo and demanding the one in the capital dies and also creating the office of Aare ona Kakanfo and demanding the effect s of office from the person Alaafin appointed into fhe office -- all of these happenes without Oyo flinching or raising the slightest dust.

In the context of the thread. If Alaafin derives the status he holds (rather than being the last under his older brothers) as a result of previous conquests then the Ibadan throne deserves to supersede the Alaafin for carriying out the same feat & doing more -- wading into the forest areas of Ife, Ijesa, Ekiti & defeating Ilorin which the Alaafins couls not do.

Gasing up Alaafin's throne for military exploits require that the same be spread to other thrones such as Ibadan. If we cancel out the military achievements, Alaafin will be back in the 8 position in the other of birth/seniority with Orangun of Ila or Olowu being number one.

Where is the Olowo of Owo kingdom

This is my Comment

Deji, Soun, Ataoja, Timi are all in Baale/Olubadan Ibadan's league.

Soun & Timi thrones are not traditional but founded as a result of Oyo's military kini (ran out of vocabs right now, pardon me).

Deji's throne was founded by Owa Atakumosa of Ilesa and for a while Deji throne was under the influence of Ilesa and I think Ijesa territories expanded towards that front.

Ataoja's throne is a recent throne whose relevance is solely derived from Osogbo being a state capital. In Yoruba history, Osogbo & Ataoja played a latent position in the scheme of things.

Is Alaafin in your list of first class due to Oyo's military power?

The problem with someone of u here is u just come online and yab nonsense saying the Deji is a Baale how didirin can one reason. Firstly the Deji of akure is the primus inter pares Oba in ondo state follow by Osemawe and olowo those are the three snr Paramount rulers in ondo state I don't know which of ur history teacher or the historical nonsense u read. The Alake Awujale or Owa obokun aren't snr to the those obas I mention and let me not forget the Ewi of Ado Elekole and other snr Ekiti obas. Lack of history is affecting u or jealousy for the Deji. I'm hearing his nonsense for the very first time calling Deji and Paramount ruler of akure a Baale 😂.go back and carry ur history book u will know how powerful the Deji was. U don't know the historical relationship between Deji and Owa because if u k ow u will not talk that rubbish saying akure is in ijesa 😂 gosh daft generation that know next to nothing