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|Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by eldee(m): 8:22pm On Dec 23, 2009|
What can I say, I was there checking out the Forever Young(which by the way is the hottest song out there right now) video when I came across a couple of erm . . . anti-Jay-Z videos.
To eliminate any chances of me influencing decisions, I'll try not to put in my own view so early into the topic.
These are some of the lines that have helped to fuel the controversy.
Hail Mary to the city your a Virgin,
and Jesus can’t save you life starts when the church ends
Empire State of Mind
I used to say 'bleep mic skills,' and never prayed to God, I prayed to
Ain't nobody fresher
I'm in Maison (huh) Martin Margiela
Run This Town
A couple of videos on Youtube show us different opinions on this quotes from the Blueprint 3 Ablum.
I'll try to post them and see your take on this.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by eldee(m): 8:34pm On Dec 23, 2009|
Some Dude Talking About the 'Jesus Can't Save You' Line.
He tries to imply that Jay-Z is going on a head-on opposition against christians.
And even talks about the 'life begins when the church ends' line.
And he goes on to call Jay-Z the anti-christ.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by NIGboi(m): 10:35pm On Dec 23, 2009|
@eldee, he didnt call jay z the anti christ, its more like he is an agent of the anti-christ.
i think jay z went too far on this. dissing Jesus Christ. the guy must be going bananas. next thing, he will be saying that he is the saviour. he can't even save himself. never really paid attention to that song until this. Am a christian and since he is insulting my saviour, he is also insulting me.
what does Jesus and the church have to do with his song. the fact that he is now very wealthy, famous doesn't give the right to talk crap.
i guess he doesn't believe in Jesus, he has tried to equate himself with jehova and others.
Jay z can't do any of the things that Jesus did, he can't give life, can't save life, can't build the church, he knows this and tries to insult Jesus in his songs. he is just a pathetic dude, a very insecure man.
he needs to be called out on this, he has gone too far
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by OgaJude: 12:47am On Dec 24, 2009|
This is what happens when celebrity starts going to your head. He should take a note from Kanye West. Maybe he was trying to be controversial to sell the record.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by hax: 1:54am On Dec 24, 2009|
eldee:I thought 'Already Home' was much better. The singy-songy-ness of Forever Young makes it less, appealing. Still a great song though.
To eliminate any chances of me influencing decisions, I'll try not to put in my own view so early into the topic.I really didn't understand it. It sounded out of place and completely unnecessary. Poor rapping saved only by Alicia Keys singing. So I don't see why I'd even bother defending it. lol
I used to say 'bleep mic skills,' and never prayed to God, I prayed toThat's about money and power, not religion. Gotti was a powerful mob boss. Reasonable Doubt was all Mafioso (unlike M.I. lol)That was 1996. He can't have been a Mason/Illuminati then. Who the fidduck was he then? lol
Ain't nobody fresherFashion designer?
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by chiogo(f): 2:15am On Dec 24, 2009|
Funny 'cause I was just listening to that song and wondering about those lyrics too. Listening to it again
As a Jigga fan, I'll like to believe that he was implying like the saying goes , "Heaven helps those who help themselves" in Empire State of Mind, when he said the "Jesus can’t save your life starts when the church ends".
But then again, it isn't just this song. It's hard to ignore his outbursts in other songs which show his anti-Christianity.
I think he's just cocky as hell. In "Ain't I", he contradicts his whole "I'm the God" favorite phrase when he goes "No, I'm not God but I was made in his mold". Let's just say he's confused.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by hax: 2:51am On Dec 24, 2009|
chiogo:That's one way to look at it. Not that I see the connection though. lol
But then again, it isn't just this song. It's hard to ignore his outbursts in other songs which show his anti-Christianity.Such as?
I think he's just cocky as hell. In "Ain't I", he contradicts his whole "I'm the God" favorite phrase when he goes "No, I'm not God but I was made in his mold". Let's just say he's confused.i.e. he's made in God's image, like you and I and I?
God MC has nothing to do with him being a god or anything. Isn't it more about his mic skills? That's like saying Rakim Allah is also a god. :S
Or that Lil Wayne is a Martian.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by chiogo(f): 3:10am On Dec 24, 2009|
hax:"Even if you don't like me, you respect the god(God)" - same song, "Ain't I?"
Umm, some other shiit I can't remember
hax:Umm, I knew that. Still contradicting! How can you be made in your own image? That is, if he's God like he's been telling us, how can he then be made in God's image?
hax:Right. That's what I think too or at least want to think anyway. But how do you explain the whole J-hova(Jehova) thing? Don't tell me he simply means he's the "Jehovah" of rap. That just sounds funny on its own.
Wel that ^^ is the reason many people I know don't like him, they think he compares himself to God. Obviously, his logic of the word is lost on many.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by A40(m): 3:13am On Dec 24, 2009|
hax:Thanks for schooling fellas on this Maison thing!! I think you should charge a fee. . I have had countless arguments on this issue. And the Jeezy paying Lebron i'm paying Dwyane Wade part as well most cats i know still swear its Jesus he said
chiogo:Inasmuch as he was wrong to say Jesus can't save you. Its not as blasphemous as these Anti-Jay-Z peeps are painting it as what he implied was what you typed above
I could name 3 rappers sef off the top of my head that are more blasphemous than people say Jay-Z is
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by eldee(m): 3:27am On Dec 24, 2009|
It's simple . . . he was talking about girls that move into NY in search of fame/fortune and then decide to get it the rough way.
That line was about these chics that slag all week and then decide to go to church on Sundays to think it'll erase everything.
'Life starts when the church ends' - Your mistakes of last week don't automatically go away just because you spend one day a week in church and go back to your regular life.
Just see how the rest of the verse points to this.
who sip the lite casually, then gradually become worse,
don’t bite the apple Eve,
caught up in the in crowd,
now you're in-style,
and in the winter gets cold en vogue with your skin out,
the city of sin is a pity on a whim.
good girls gone bad, the city's filled with them,
Mommy took a bus trip and now she got her bust out,
everybody ride her, just like a bus route,
Hail Mary to the city your a Virgin,
and Jesus can’t save you life starts when the church ends,
came here for school, graduated to the high life,
ball players, rap stars, addicted to the limelight
How can you not like this song?? This is as metaphorical as the word goes.
From referencing the 'The big apple' to the way he played with words at the begining of the third verse.
He literally painted a mental picture of his endz in the first verse . . . I feel like I'm from NY.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by Nobody: 6:47am On Dec 24, 2009|
I just dnt understand why everyone likes this song.
I dont feel the beat
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by Nobody: 9:10am On Dec 24, 2009|
Same was said about jay when he featured on Rihanna's Umbrella.
“No clouds in my stones
Let it rain, I hydroplane in the bank
Coming down with the Dow Jones”
So the “storm” is in fact related to the economy and the financial world. “Coming down with the Dow Jones” reflects this situation. The Dow Jones is the main indicator of the health of the stock market. If it plummets, we can talk about a market crash. This reference is pretty eerie as it effectively predicts the crash of the stock markets that is taking place now, which is two years after the release of the song. We all know that, since September of this year (2008), the Dow Jones has experienced its biggest drops since the great depression. Here’s a random quote from today’s news (December 11th):
Stocks on Wall Street fell sharply on Thursday afternoon, with the Dow Jones industrials sliding 200 points, as investors weighed a lower sales outlook and a widening trade gap that could spell trouble for American businesses.
The fact that this song was made in 2006, two full years before even having signs of recession is strange. You’ll notice that the whole song has a pessimistic outlook concerning the future. Jay-Z is saying “Let it rain”, he doesn’t care about the financial crisis, he “hydroplanes in the bank”. In other words, while the bank is being flooded by this storm and people are drowning in it, he’s above the water and surviving the crisis.
When the clouds come we gone, we Rocafella
In other words, when the financial crisis will occur, we won’t be here to suffer through it. “Rocafella” is the name of Jay-Z’s record label. It also refers to John D. Rockefeller and his family, the biggest industrialists in American History and huge actors in the formation of the social-economic world we’re currently living in. Many historians claim the Rockerfellers have engineered the crash of 1929 to be able to obtain a stronghold on America’s banking system. Congressman Charles A. Lindberg Sr. accurately proclaimed in 1930:
“From now on depressions will be scientifically created.”
We fly higher than weather
And G5’s are better, You know me,
“We fly higher than the weather” means that Jay-Z cannot be affected by the financial crisis because he is above the problem. He enjoys a protection that makes him unvulnerable to the storm. The fact that he says “WE fly higher than the weather” implies that a select few can have the same kind of privileges he has. G5 is a kind of private jet so he will live in luxury even when the crisis strikes the rest of the world.
an anticipation, for precipitation. Stacked chips for the rainy day
Jay-Z says here that he was expecting this major crisis (the precipitation) and so he has prepared financially to face it. Seems like he had prior knowledge of the events that would occur in the future. Is he talking about the recession that is happening now?
Jay, Rain Man is back with little Ms. Sunshine
Rihanna where you at?
Jay aka “Rain Man”. He has been possessed by the Devil, contrarily to Rihanna, who he calls “little Ms. Sunshine”. Rihanna is the good girl. Jay-Z is already bad and he is asking Rihanna to join him.
These are not my notions FYI, its copy and paste stuff
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by rapjunkie(m): 9:52am On Dec 24, 2009|
Thats always been my understanding of that line. If you go to church on a Sunday but forget to hustle from Monday to saturday you will end up broke. . . i.e Jesus will not save you
Everybody seems to be on Jay Z's d_ck. People do not understand how he has sustained this level of success for so long. The most ever No1 albums in the US. He is officially a living legend and JUST turned 40. . . . . . surely there must be an evil explanation. . . . . . . Thats it!!! He worships the devil!!!. . . . . Give me a break. . . jeeeeeez!!! ( ooops, is that blasphemy too)
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by Nobody: 10:28am On Dec 24, 2009|
I think your right. Those who stopped going to church, who stopped believing stop getting the grace and protection of God.
God help those who helps themselves.
But he needs to quit confusing ppl. Like shut the hell up if you have nothing to rap about.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by semasir: 10:37am On Dec 24, 2009|
Good observation. I think he'll pay for his sayings by God, ours is just to criticise. His soul will rot in hell.[color=#990000][/color]
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by dejiariyo: 11:19am On Dec 24, 2009|
u pple makes me laugh cos jay z dont support christianity or dont believe in jesus makes him evil?
he has the right to do whatever he chose to do,no one knows the right way only God can judge himself.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by Genuflect(m): 12:14pm On Dec 24, 2009|
I'm a Christian but Christianity has to be the cockiest religion ever. Everybody is just out to point a finger at the littlest imbalance. Serve your own God and forget about other's religions. Who cares if Jigga worships the Devil, is it telling on me? These same people use Jesus' name in vain and have never considered it a sin. But you can be sure they'll be the first to analyse every Jigga line? Hypocrisy is a female dog
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by hax: 2:51pm On Dec 24, 2009|
chiogo:Not really contradictory. More about mic skills than religion. You don't have to like someone to respect him.
He calls himself god MC, not God. They're two different things. So he can be made in God's image.
Right. That's what I think too or at least want to think anyway. But how do you explain the whole J-hova(Jehova) thing? Don't tell me he simply means he's the "Jehovah" of rap. That just sounds funny on its own.He's not God. He's not Jehovah. He's' God MC'. Jay-Hova. They're not the same. That name came from him calling himself god MC and having Jay in his name. It might be a play on a name he shouldn't play with, but what can we do? Nas is God's Son. Are we to say he's jacking Jesus' swag? lol
A-40:lol. They say he meant 'Mason' not 'Maison', but he said the name of the fashion house immediately after, so i don't even get their argument.
eldee:I do agree that going to church and forgetting God after is a waste of time. But there's no one God can't save. So they do have a point if they say he blasphemed. Where there's life, there's hope. It's not over until 'she' dies. He shouldn't have said that either way.
He literally painted a mental picture of his endz in the first verse . . . I feel like I'm from NY.lol
Why does everyone say that? Do they ride you like the bus route? :p
All he did was name drop throughout. The Game's rubbing off on him. lol
D.O.A and Run This Town imo were much better tracks. Run This Town would have been as popular if Rihanna could fxcking sing.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by ravenzord(m): 3:02pm On Dec 24, 2009|
@ arkinses: Which site did you get dat article from? That's lyk d biggest pile of crap I've heard/seen in a while.
@ OP: JayZ doesn't believe in Jesus;dat's pretty obvious by now,but it doesn't mean he doesn't believe in heaven,check out songs like 'Moment of Clarity'. I really don't see why there's so much of a fuss about his Illuminatism, the way I see it almost every powerful guy there ever has been was Illuminati,starting from Galileo Galilei. And the 'Jesus can't save you' line was pretty true,dunno why folks lose sight of the obvious and start arguing over irrelevancies.
P.S: I've heard Busta call himself God, and Lil Wayne put himself before God,how come I'm not seeing Youtube videos about'em?
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by chiogo(f): 5:03pm On Dec 24, 2009|
I don't believe that he doesn't believe in God. I guess that's what happens when you try to paint a rapper's image - Blasphemy!
This is why people say Rap music doesn't go with Christianity.
Oh well, devil or not, that one no concern me.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by Nobody: 5:22pm On Dec 24, 2009|
And the Jeezy paying Lebron i'm paying Dwyane Wade part as well most cats i know still swear its Jesus he said
@A-40: Was listening to the song yesterday and I know he said Jesus. El Gators doesn't like the song, I think the song is hot, the beat is even hotter then Alicia Keys did well but I think ''run this town'' is more controversial. But guys, I would like us to compare this song to Kanye's Chicago featuring that Coldplay dude. Which song is hotter, though I have a soft spot for Kanye. Your thoughts please, Eldee what do you think.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by Nobody: 5:28pm On Dec 24, 2009|
He was saying like 50% of people there won't survive and how he made his money in ny. Naija is tougher. He won't last a day in naija. There is alot of opprtunity in ny.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by Nobody: 5:39pm On Dec 24, 2009|
Even christians agree that life starts when church ends because thats when u start putting in practice whatever u learnt in church. D other monday after a very motivating service on sunday, I could hear a voice in my head say ''ok, church done end, let me see how u gon survive''. At that point it's either u shake it off or u go back to ur rut.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by rebelious: 6:20pm On Dec 24, 2009|
arkinses:I WOULD HAVE SAID YOU HAVE AN OVER ACTIVE IMAGINATION IF I HADNT READ YOUR LAST SENTENCE
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by aieromon(m): 6:30pm On Dec 24, 2009|
I've expressed my opinion on this line somewhere in this section.
Nice to see i have people that agree with me.
~~Heaven helps those who help themselves~~
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by blackcypha(m): 6:41pm On Dec 24, 2009|
IF U DONT UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF RAP METAPHORS , PLEASEDONT EVA POST ISH LIKE THIS ON THIS THREAD AGAIN
POSTER, DAT IS THE BEAUTY OF THE ARTS ,
PPLE LIKE HITLER AND STALIN SAID WORSE TINS ABOUT XTIANS, Bleep DAT.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by ritchboy(m): 7:01pm On Dec 24, 2009|
stop screaming u know the demon said it's best to die
and even if Jehovah witnessed bet he'll never testify.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by Amya(f): 7:36pm On Dec 24, 2009|
The thing is. I think jay z is evil and that his music is slowly but steadily brainwashing everyone. He has through his rap lines, granted interviews, choice of music video, prints on his shirts, logo for his design line & record label (where he used the pyramid and eye- the ultimate illuminati sign) as choice of logo. All these are all sign of him being part of the illuminati group. Illuminati's are headed by lucifer, and they are anti-christians. They believe they are their own god. Lucifer means bringer of light. Light means illumination (illuminati's therefore means lucifers people). Jay z knows what he's doing. Through rap, he's trying to bring more and more people to his master lucifer. He said it all in run this town. Many people are brainwashed already. But i guess it takes having eyes to really see. The end time is near and things are happening. That your idol may march you off to doom!
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by Genuflect(m): 8:00pm On Dec 24, 2009|
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by eldee(m): 8:59pm On Dec 24, 2009|
ritchboy:We'll need the rest of the verse to explain this.
The bar before that explains that he's giving lead showers(Mafia style spraying executions)
He's killing the witness to make sure there's no chance of snitching.
The wordplay on Jehovah witness is like a brag to prove that everyone is too scared to testify.
It's an opinion . . . and it's a justified one at that.
It's only Christians that actually believe they get a clean slate for just saying their prayers.
If he doesn't believe in that, he has the right to say it, let's stop being hypocritical here.
Christians are the biggest bullies in religion.
Christians label Muslims as violent and African religions as voodoo but nah . . . Jay-Z expresses himself and it's wrong.
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by Genuflect(m): 9:21pm On Dec 24, 2009|
^^^Exactly what I've been tryna say. We Christians are quick to mock Mohammed, Buddha etc but get all mushy if 'Jesus' get mentioned. How hypocritical
|Re: Did Jay-z Mean To Offend Christians On 'Empire State Of Mind'? by NIGboi(m): 11:36pm On Dec 24, 2009|
ha! was actually expecting to see stuff like this. All them Jay Z fans will definitely discover or produce some meaning to whatever he says. jay z has always been anti-God, so it isn't surprising.
my guess is that if it was said about allah, the Moslems would have started a jihad or some riots, and here some folks are saying christians are making too much out of it because some of them are talking.
Amazing at what some so-called christians say.
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