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Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:49am On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO: This is so simple sir . Even as children , we knew how parents disciplined us whenever we become recalcitrant but the punishment never deterred us from being disobedient or obstinate . That is the same case , we totally understand God's punishment but there are many reasons why we still carry on with sinful acts . The most common of them all is the pleasure from sin . A good study of habits show that some destructive acts we carry out are so ingrained in our brains that we have little or no control over them . We crave for the gratification we derive from these acts . And most times , we carry out these habits unthinkingly no matter the bad consequences or disincentives . So here is what salvation offer us : a disassociation from the things of the world as new creatures we are or have become . We no longer crave the rewards or pleasures we derive from living in sin but the things of God or things that matter to God . |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:58am On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO: The dead man knowing nothing simply focuses on the material perspective of life . In one of your posts to Uyi , you clearly said that while we sleep our awareness is turned to other realms totally oblivious to our surroundings . So while the dead sleeps but eternally , his awareness is turned totally to other realms . But he certainly knows that he has experienced physical death since he has now gained a copious sense of awareness . |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 12:08pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
UyiIredia: But sebi you'll first try. Don't be ashamed of your position.
Yogis derive their expertise on the subject from years of practice and meditation. You can call me a fool all you like, I still question that you know what you're talking about when you talk about matter and energy. Anyway, in my village it is not the person that is asking questions that can ever be a fool. It is the person that stands on a podium to make statements that are baseless and ill thought out that we call a fool. But then that's just my village, maybe in your village it is the other way around.
Consciousness is not awareness. We can be more or less Aware of certain things, but we are not ever More or less Conscious. If you don't get that simple issue then don't worry, let's move on to other things that you can understand. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 12:15pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: When you disobey your parents it's because you believe that you can get away with it. It's called taking a chance. You will not touch that forbidden thing if your mother was in the same room standing over you. And so your analogy does not work because unlike your parents you believe god to be everywhere and omniscient, seeing your every move. He was there in the same room when you were knacking that ashawo, yet that didn't stop you, did it? 1 Like |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 12:17pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: Sleep and death are two very different things. I've been asleep many times before and can talk at length of my experiences of sleep. However I have never died before (not that I can recall) and so anything I say on the subject of death will be pure speculation. 1 Like |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:17pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
AnonyNymous: |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:32pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO: I used that analogy to explain why we go on with destructive habits or do bad things no matter the deterrent or disincentive . I can go ahead and disobey my mum even if she is there because of the desire to do what pleases me ; the gains of my actions , the joy and satisfaction I get from doing so . We crave for the reward and when a habit is so ingrained in us we can go ahead to do it with a paucity or no cognitive participation ( thoughts about what the consequences are would not even stop us or our strong cravings will override any form of discouragement ) . Someone can be lecherous because he so craves the orgasms or pleasures from sex . This is so because we are in the world and of the world . Like I said earlier , salvation disassociates us from this world and makes us Christ-like . Such pleasures won't matter to us . That's my point sir . You dig ? Or should I explain the science behind it ? |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 12:48pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: You see where you say 'no cognitive participation'. There is cognitive participation, but your are just not aware of it just like you are not aware of 99.9 per cent of the events going on in your mind. Even though your awareness of the thought process that makes you sin is subliminal that doesn't change the fact that there is a process. And that process is often based on beliefs just like the thoughts that you are aware of. Since these things are subliminal brain processes and you say that they will stop when we are saved and christlike then I wonder... Does Salvation involve some sort of Lobotomy? 1 Like |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by UyiIredia(m): 12:50pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
akintom: The irony! akintom: If you agreed with the definition that consciousness is self-awareness you do not equivocate on it. Those multi-neural activities are not consciousness itself, as you said they GIVE awareness capability. Your idiocy is your fault. Go to Wikipedia or any scientific dictionary. They do not redefine consciousness as neural activities. I would not agree if they do but it is important that they don't. akintom: See dunce sha! Where did I ever suggest that? akintom: What meaning did you reply then? akintom: Consciouness ≠ multi-neural activities. Consciousness = self-awareness. Multi-neural activities = physiological actions of the brain. To the fool all things are foolish. I rest my case. |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 12:52pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: You did not explain why anything. To explain why would involve a breakdown of the process itself. all you did was try to show that it occurs in other instances. ie as it occurs with our belief in God so it occurs in our dealings with our parents. That is not explaining 'why'. 1 Like |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:57pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Of course , we can less or more conscious of things . Consciousness is a state isn't it ? A child develops a sense of awareness (sense of self ) of himself at about 4 years old or so when the orbito frontal cortex is developed . You and a baby are on different levels of consciousness . And self awareness is totally from person to person ; people who have a greater sense of self awareness tend to more in touch with their emotions and even manage them . Spiritual enlightenment some religions practice lets you increase your level of consciousness - you become aware of things beyond the usual sensory perception . Sha last last , there are types of consciousness and every type has its own level of awareness different from another type . |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by UyiIredia(m): 1:02pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
Based on the responses of atheists here and in the past and the crap from PastorAIO it is the same case as always. Same old, same old. Seun's has been the best so far. His reply was the mozt comprehensive as it addressed my premises and most of my posers. ifenes is a disgrace to reason. JackBizzle and johnydon22, read his posts here and tell me you are ashamed. akintom is foolish but honestly I am used to his idiocy. I have encountered many atheists redefining consciousness as activities in the brain. It is good I did not get much responses. [corrected] PS: @akintom: Being a dunce. I am a deist. I follow no religion. @ifenes: My aim is not to curse to upset you. I honestly think you are a disgrace to reason and as such foolish. Your ideas are ludicrous and will only be laughed off as New age crap by rational persons. @PastorAIO: The Baba of them all. I hail! Twale for the sleeping emperor! Unless akintom is a liar as well, even he must agree with me that your denial of consciousness being based on physical things is senile. Not to mention several glaring idiocies in your posts. Now you make a very foolish statement which annoys me. The false ego and consciousness are different things and NOWHERE do I suggest the two are the same but since you are stuck in a maze of absurdities on what consciousness is I will leave it at that. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 1:12pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
UyiIredia: LOL!! The boy taya!!! next time don't start a thread with half baked information. 1 Like |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by KingEbukasBlog(m): 1:16pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO: Even if I have to agree that there is cognitive participation though we are not aware of it , it is not utterly weak to restrain us from engaging in a sinful act . You still made my point sir . PastorAIO: Salvation is supernatural isn't it ? I've got a friend who was once an incorrigible smoker and womanizer . He resorts to masturbation whenever he has no woman to please himself with . I had a discussion with him : He explained that he no longer has those impulses or urge to sleep around , smoke or masturbate . He also told me that has lost total interest in those sinful acts . And I asked him if no longer has even a little urge to do so , he said 'yes' . Maybe the science is that the destructive behavioral patterns have waned since God intervened . But when the bible said we are new creatures it obviously talks about a rebirth or a new sense of self . You have a new identity . I can't explain it scientifically but the change was instantaneous according to him . Surgeries can correct addictions that are so strong . Even AA group rely on belief to change their addiction to alcohol . Only God can evidently provide an instantaneous change . |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 1:37pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: It would help if we all could give the terms we are using tight definitions. For me personally I define my terms as follows Consciousness, a self reference where the Act and the Object of the Act are the same, so Consciousness is the act of being Conscious of Consciousness. Conscious beings are Aware that they are conscious beings. Awareness. Apprehension of events that we experience. This can be diffuse (spread out to many events) or it can be concentrated (focused on a few events to the cost of other events). There is a subtle but essential difference between Awareness and Consciousness. Consciousness is unchanging but Awareness can be manipulated. Attention. The act of directing awareness. Identity. Experience can be organised in such a way that it is perceived from a certain perspective. that Perspective is what we call our identity, and it is often associated with our human body. It is constructed (you've said that it is formed around the age of 4, I don't know about the neuroscience behind it so I cannot verify) and can be dissolved. The identity is often conflated with Consciousness too, and this is one of the gravest errors that cause the pitiful state of the human condition. After Identity is dissolved we find that Experience still continues and that Consciousness still persists. There are many spiritual practices that are aimed at the dissolution of Identity. Identity can also be laden with characteristics etc. I say it is often associated with the human body but not always, it can also be dissociated from in in which case you will continue to experience events but as if from a location separate from your human body. Identity is mostly constructed with the aid of memories. So you are not just a perspective but also the guy that went to such and such school and was born into such and such family in such and such town. If you don't remember doing something as a part of your constructed Sense of Self then it will not form a part of your Identity, how you see yourself. To construct Identity we purposely relegate such events that do not fit into our desired construction to the dustbin of Forgetfulness. Then we remember those things that edify our constructed identity. The person who believes himself to be a heroic chap will have a hard time remembering all the cowardly acts he has performed in his life. etc. Of course this Sense of Identity is totally false and most of us on this planet are walking around with this false construct (false Ego) shrouding our minds. Not just that, but worse still, this False Ego has the temerity to claim to be the ultimate Consciousness. This is its false teaching and this OP is dangerously close to preaching it. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 1:40pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
I"ve got to go now, but se you know (about your friend) that sexual drive tends to wane over the years as you get older. KingEbukasBlog: 1 Like |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by KingEbukasBlog(m): 1:49pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO: He is 20/21 sir . He shared his testimony online . I'll get you the site's address later . |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by ifenes(m): 2:27pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
UyiIredia: Next time don't ask for answers to questions your brain cannot handle. You have been miseducated and probably a damaged good. You aim is to curse at people you do not agree with and that will not work with me. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by akintom(m): 3:07pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
UyiIredia: It's not your fault. Mistaking a slowpoke, who's primarily deluded with the filth of religion, for rational entity, gave you this ground. |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by UyiIredia(m): 5:00pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO: I am not tired. I can go on debating. The problem is the motivation. Why argue with people showing bad reasoning or lacking critical thinking? Conflation and obfuscation of definitions. Ignoring instructions. Wilful ignorance. There has to be some basic ground rules however ill-defined or not when arguing. A central one is logical reasoning. There is only so much bad logic one may tolerate, outside that argument is futile and as such best left alone. Good side. On rare occasions I like a post for being very stupid. That way I can refer to it later. That one on solipsism was great. |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 8:09pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
UyiIredia: UyiIredia: So you are moaning about that which you specifically asked for in your OP. I disagreed with your definition and use of the term Consciousness and instead of presenting an argument to back up you position you resorted to insults and ad hominems, and now you have finally resorted to crying and whingeing. Eeyah! Oo ma se o!! 2 Likes |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 8:11pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
I believe men peak at 19 years and women at 30 years when it comes to the urgency of the sex drive. KingEbukasBlog: |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 8:20pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
KingEbukasBlog: If you look at what I coloured red there in your post you'll see what I'm talking about when I say you are conflating different things . Sense of Self is not Consciousness. You can remain conscious without a sense of self. What you just said amounts to saying that a child is not Conscious until they reach the age of 4. The sense of identity does change, yes. It can grow as you get older, but also with certain practices you can get rid of it too. You can change your emotional state and your sense of self with the use of alcohol and other drugs. These things are not about consciousness. I am actually quite dubious about a lot of neuroscientists. I think that they conflate a lot of issues too. What we learn about when we say that a dog recognises itself in the mirror is not Consciousness but Identity. Self Awareness. Sometimes I think that without deep meditative practice it is very hard for people to properly even have a grasp of what Consciousness is. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by Ishilove: 8:21pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO:Is this a scientific fact? |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 8:25pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO: I repeat my question in case you've forgotten to give an answer. I didn't ask for a like, I required an answer. |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 8:32pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
Ishilove: I know say inside everything wey we don talk for this thread if Ishi must enter it will be when the conversation turns to sex. How you dey Ishilove? It's been a while. I don't know if it's a scientific fact but it's certain a meme that is out there. I think what might be scientific is that the male hormone production peaks in the late teens while the female hormone production peaks around 30. |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by PastorAIO: 8:32pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by Ishilove: 8:34pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO:Inquiry and knowledge go hand in hand so I must ask questions nau I'm very fine, AY, it's been long we saw you in these unhallowed parts. As for the hormone thingy, I wouldn't say you are correct... |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by Ishilove: 8:43pm On Apr 02, 2017 |
PastorAIO:Thank you, I found the article most enlightening. 1 Like |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by plaetton: 8:13am On Apr 07, 2017 |
ifenes:Lol. He has potential. Pity he is wasting too much mental energy on the wrong side, the dark side , the side of lethal Mythologies. 2 Likes |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by plaetton: 8:21am On Apr 07, 2017 |
UyiIredia: Lol. I do consider it flattery that I am DISS-invited to this your " here we go again " ramblings and Babbles on the topic of Consciousness. Thanks for asking politely not to come and flog you with the usual doses of finely measured Common Sense. 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Consciousness: Posers For Atheists by ifenes(m): 10:01am On Apr 07, 2017 |
plaetton: He now believes the Tower of Babel was a portal to his alien god's heaven. He is gradually getting there but religion is always a strong pull when your eyes are opening. Let's give him few months, he will be alright 4 Likes 2 Shares |
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