tsk. . .tsk. . .tsk

dhtml18:
tsk. . .tsk. . .tsk

I'm getting a challenge ready now, will be back soon.

w

dhtml18:

I can confirm that this TROLL is truly a programmer.

ByTheWay, who made me OAUTH2 of this board?

GNU chose you. Do it cheerfully

Febup:


I'm getting a challenge ready now, will be back soon.

Good, that is better than just running your mouth.

Craigston:
w
GNU chose you. Do it cheerfully

You. . . .keep out of this, I am looking for someone to e-kill!

dhtml18:

I shall always argue with you on this matter - fine, software engineering is great, but does not guarantee a great and successful programmer.

Some of the PHD holders I know in this industry, cannot even smell some of the places that I have coded to. When they see my true colors, they just OPEN THEIR MOUTHS LIKE A BUNCH OF MONKEYS!

If you doubt me, we can start a new thread where you can openly challenge me to a task we can agree on - such as hacking this programming board or any basic thing that you wish so that I can demonstrate my power!


Fine for some courses like Medicine, Surgery, Civil engineering, it is important to go to school - but it is not so for programming.

I can floor many of you guys here in JAVA and many languages, fine, I might not be able to even define what a compiler is, what it means for a language like kotlin to be statically typed e.t.c but when it comes to what matters - building something that works, I will floor many many of the fully software-educated TROLLS anytime!

Baba don vex o

cbrass:

Baba don vex o

Yes, I need to draw E-BLOOD. You guys know that one of the things I hate the most on this board is:
RUNNING OF MOUTHS (WITHOUT CODES TO BACK UP THE RECURSIVE-RUNNING-OF-MOUTH)

So I am up for a free and fair challenge, at the end of the challenge, there will be:
A. Winner - Programmer (Programming-Troll)
B. Loser - Talker (Talking-Troll)

Ordinarily, I would have kept quiet, but you know what - this thread is an AFRONT to all boys like me that are self-taught. I read countless blogs weekly, read articles, read documentations, read programming practice, i write codes (open-source, close source), i do unit testing, end-to-end testing, debug countless apps, write websites, mobile apps, code multiple languages as a result of hard-work, learning e.t.c

And someone is trying to rubbish all that. By the way, in case you guys are not aware, when companies (even oyinbo ones) want to employ programmers - they dont make it compulsory in many instances that you must study computer science and all that, o yeah, I have seen many adverts on twitter.

I dont want to start counting so many of my tech achievements here so that some people will not go and commit suicide.

dhtml18:

Yes, I need to draw E-BLOOD. You guys know that one of the things I hate the most on this board is:
RUNNING OF MOUTHS (WITHOUT CODES TO BACK UP THE RECURSIVE-RUNNING-OF-MOUTH)

So I am up for a free and fair challenge, at the end of the challenge, there will be:
A. Winner - Programmer (Programming-Troll)
B. Loser - Talker (Talking-Troll)

Ordinarily, I would have kept quiet, but you know what - this thread is an AFRONT to all boys like me that are self-taught. I read countless blogs weekly, read articles, read documentations, read programming practice, i write codes (open-source, close source), i do unit testing, end-to-end testing, debug countless apps, write websites, mobile apps, code multiple languages as a result of hard-work, learning e.t.c

And someone is trying to rubbish all that. By the way, in case you guys are not aware, when companies (even oyinbo ones) want to employ programmers - they dont make it compulsory in many instances that you must study computer science and all that, o yeah, I have seen many adverts on twitter.

I dont want to start counting so many of my tech achievements here so that some people will not go and commit suicide.

You are very right.i don't know why these computer science students think we self taught are never do well. I was at an interview for a project and the reason the man gave me was because I told him I was self taught. He said I would have experienced a lot of things and BTW I no good reach that level like that o.lol I also read too but mehn I don lazy these days o.

Let us leave our any dragging or competition, let us examine facts:

I know that in Nigeria, some companies with DEPRECATED HRS (WITH SMALL BRAINS) will ask for Bsc Computing when they want to employ programmers, I dont blame them - they work based on their perceived brain-capacity. But let us go international - those guys are more factual, and they do know that a mere degree is not the only way that a person can acquire knowledge in this AGE-OF-INTERNET.


I am not saying that it is not good to have Bsc Computer science mind you, but it is not a pre-requisite to being a good programmer. I have an IT related degree mind you - had to do that many years ago in order to achieve a certain goal.
If you check on twitter and the likes, what you will find most of the time is BS in Computer Science or comparable experience. Notice the comparable experience - so far as you can prove that you have the experience required.

Example of job opportunities:
https://careers.twitter.com/content/careers-twitter/en/jobs-search.html?q=&team=&location=
https://careers.twitter.com/en/work-for-twitter/senior-software-engineer-infrastructure-management-services.html

Even right now as we speak, I have an equivalent of one of such jobs as a senior developer (leading oyinbo teams). Once I was able to prove that I was capable, I got the job straight away, and that is just the beginning because I am still going places. It is at home that a prophet does not have HONOUR or so them say.


And you might want to read more about the comparable experience on this post - https://www.quora.com/In-the-usual-programming-job-requirements-what-does-bachelors-degree-in-computer-science-or-equivalent-mean-Does-it-mean-that-I-can-apply-for-the-position-without-a-degree-if-I-have-experience-in-software-development

dhtml18:

Good, that is better than just running your mouth.

Why can't we have a Civil discourse on this forum without going down such demeaning root which shows how unprofessional a person behaves. I know you are a local champion on this forum but remember that some of us that visit this forum are international champions.

I have attached an image of my reputation on StackOverFlow.com it will be nice for you to show yours.

I used to be a self taught myself and I'm not hear to brag or the demean those that are self taught with out a degree in Software Engineering or Computer Science but rather to share experiences with others.

I know you don't agree but the truth is that to guarantee a software project will not fail it is important that someone with a degree in software Engineering and some years of experience is heading that project.

Febup:

I know you don't agree but the truth is that to guarantee a software project will not fail it is important that someone with a degree in software Engineering and some years of experience is heading that project.

I was preparing to go for an all-out WAR until I read the last segment of your post - I cannot help but agree with you.

Let us not take the matter so personal - Okay, I concede defeat as I do not have stackoverflow profile (though I have what I can use as leverage).

But like I said, let us not make this about ourselves. . . .you have made your point.

@Febup, I know you are one of the seasoned programmers on this board. If you know me well, you will know that I am just trying to cause trouble to liven the board up a bit.

But let us not just go on like that, let us try to educate people a bit on why software projects fail in Nigeria - I will create a separate thread for that.

Here it is - https://www.nairaland.com/3816161/why-software-web-mobile-application

You don't need a cs degree to become a good programmer but having one helps.
I once worked in a team where we developed a financial application and the guys didn't seem to understand the difference between the double and decimal datatype and the implication of using either. They can make software that "works" but lack understanding of such basic things.
They know design patterns but their code screams anti-pattern. i don't have a core cs degree myself

^^^this is true, again, this is why people need to READ, since all these things are clearly documented. Well, make I no LIE, I have the equivalent knowledge of a CS graduate because I once studied in an institution, but was forced to drop out (not failed mind you, that is a long story for another day) and through some abracadabra, graduated with M.B.B.S rather than Bsc CS. So that is probably why I know what a single-precision, double-precision e.t.c is, and understand how pointers are stored in memory, things like binary codes, ASCII characters, difference between carriage return and line feed, why you should use varchar(5) instead TEXT or LONGTEXT for fields e.t.c

For a person that just started learning programming without a background knowledge of CS, all those things I just mentioned above will be rubbish, because your own will just be to make things work - THE CODE IS WORKING (Not caring if there is memory leak, or your app is consuming too much resources). You dont care to determine whether your program is best to be single or multi-threaded - you just want it to work and that is it!

Most times we think of Software projects from a technology perspective alone ,
Projects fail not necessarily because the software doesn't work but because we don't factor in social parameters.
There was this change management projected i consulted on and during investigation
I have overheard the accountant "major user of the software" say he won't use the software.
He was not happy with his company for spending " money "used in implementing the system while the company still owed him two months salary and his annual housing allowance , he also felt the existing system they had was more okay.

^^^that too happens. Right now, something is happening in a big government hospital in Nigeria. A company came and said they could build a hospital management system, they pushed button, signed contract, collect money.

Somehow they got to get my number and were calling me to come and help them do the stuff, i no answer them o. Imagine, they went into contract without having a programmer, collect money, they are now looking for a programmer to kill - no be me, I have better things to do with my time.

How will that type of thing not fail?

dhtml18:
^^^this is true, again, this is why people need to READ, since all these things are clearly documented. Well, make I no LIE, I have the equivalent knowledge of a CS graduate because I once studied in an institution, but was forced to drop out (not failed mind you, that is a long story for another day) and through some abracadabra, graduated with M.B.B.S rather than Bsc CS. So that is probably why I know what a single-precision, double-precision e.t.c is, and understand how pointers are stored in memory, things like binary codes, ASCII characters, difference between carriage return and line feed, why you should use varchar(5) instead TEXT or LONGTEXT for fields e.t.c

For a person that just started learning programming without a background knowledge of CS, all those things I just mentioned above will be rubbish, because your own will just be to make things work - THE CODE IS WORKING (Not caring if there is memory leak, or your app is consuming too much resources). You dont care to determine whether your program is best to be single or multi-threaded - you just want it to work and that is it!

My background is similar to yours i graduated with an LLB. their codes work but can't scale , i personally don't care if you come from a cs background or not but if i'll be interviewing a candidate without a cs background i'll definitely make sure he has an understanding of the basics.

dhtml18:
^^^that too happens. Right now, something is happening in a big government hospital in Nigeria. A company came and said they could build a hospital management system, they pushed button, signed contract, collect money.

Somehow they got to get my number and were calling me to come and help them do the stuff, i no answer them o. Imagine, they went into contract without having a programmer, collect money, they are now looking for a programmer to kill - no be me, I have better things to do with my time.

How will that type of thing not fail?

I'm sure no brd was signed/ in this case, if the system manages to get built, what the system does and what the stakeholders want will be different things.

blob:


I'm sure no brd was signed/ in this case, if the system manages to get built, what the system does and what the stakeholders want will be different things.

Very true, this was why I refused to have anything to do with the project, this one is DEAD-ON-ARRIVAL!

All self taught programmers I have worked with without a degree in Software Engineering or Computer Science only understands what they have been trained to do, they can not research and find new solutions to new complex issues. Well the truth is that a software project should be headed by those with a degree in Software Engineering and some years of experience as these are the people that can guarantee that a software project cannot fail. Even those with a degree in computer science should be supervised by a qualified Software engineer as Computer Science is not the same as Software Engineering.

dhtml18:
^^^that too happens. Right now, something is happening in a big government hospital in Nigeria. A company came and said they could build a hospital management system, they pushed button, signed contract, collect money.

Somehow they got to get my number and were calling me to come and help them do the stuff, i no answer them o. Imagine, they went into contract without having a programmer, collect money, they are now looking for a programmer to kill - no be me, I have better things to do with my time.

How will that type of thing not fail?

Bro I have jumped into that kind of scenario before, it was God that saw me through. At the end the project failed.i simply ran to ogbomoso when I saw the whole problem have gotten my self into.

I learnt a big lesson that day, the guys were politicians children and somehow pushed for a school management system with no clear cut Road map and briefs. They just asked me to start coding na so me too jumping even though I no sabi too

Febup:
All self taught programmers I have worked with without a degree in Software Engineering or Computer Science only understands what they have been trained to do, they can not research and find new solutions to new complex issues. Well the truth is that a software project should be headed by those with a degree in Software Engineering and some years of experience as theses are the people that can guarantee that a software project cannot fail. Even those with a degree in computer science should be supervised by a qualified Software engineer as Computer Science is not the same as Software Engineering.

You have a very good point there. Because to do research implies that you have a certain knowledge and a foundation, and truth be told, without that foundation, you have nothing to research into.

cbrass:


Bro I have jumped into that kind of scenario before, it was God that saw me through. At the end the project failed.i simply ran to ogbomoso when I saw the whole problem have gotten my self into.

cbrass:
I learnt a big lesson that day, the guys were politicians children and somehow pushed for a school management system with no clear cut Road map and briefs. They just asked me to start coding na so me too jumping even though I no sabi too

Whenever I get called in for a project that I don't know head or tale, no matter the money - I just do EVASIVE MANOUVER. I wont allow someone to talk me into WAHALA!

dhtml18:


Whenever I get called in for a project that I don't know head or tale, no matter the money - I just do EVASIVE MANOUVER. I wont allow someone to talk me into WAHALA!

Bro, I learnt my lesson o, . Have learnt a lot about somethings on this thread I must admit, I need to brush up in some areas highlighted by some contributors on this thread

The thread is very enlightening especially if you read my arguments with Febup (Troll vs Programmer-Gidigba), you might learn a thing or two.

dhtml18:
(Troll vs Programmer-Gidigba)

I hope people learn from this thread sha, I have given them false hope that they will see BLOOD!

Febup:
All self taught programmers I have worked with without a degree in Software Engineering or Computer Science only understands what they have been trained to do, they can not research and find new solutions to new complex issues. Well the truth is that a software project should be headed by those with a degree in Software Engineering and some years of experience as these are the people that can guarantee that a software project cannot fail. Even those with a degree in computer science should be supervised by a qualified Software engineer as Computer Science is not the same as Software Engineering.

Exactly most cs majors also don't understand the business requirements / analysis side of projects. While most of them are excellent coders, they hardly understand what the stakeholders want. Most Software engineers however have a big richer picture of the whole system from technological to a social point of view so they are more qualified to lead teams

blob:

Exactly most cs majors also don't understand the business requirements / analysis side of projects. While most of them are excellent coders, they hardly what the stakeholders want. Most Software engineers however have a big richer picture of the whole system from technological to a social point of view so they are more qualified to lead teams

Your are right I have worked with Computer Science majors and they are truly not the ones to head software projects they are only good at coding but Software Engineering majors have been trained at uni to understand full software life cycle, coding, programming paradigms and project management.

The problem with software projects is who you know rather that your ability because the sector is not regulated, so you'll find those not suited are the ones heading these software projects.

Febup:


Your are right I have worked with Computer Science majors and they are truly not the ones to head software projects the are only good are coding but Software Engineering majors have been trained at uni to understand full software life cycle, coding, programming paradigms and project management.

The problem with software projects is who you know rather that your ability because the sector is not regulated, so you'll find those not suited are the ones heading these software projects.

Imagine someone thinking UAT testing is the same as unit testing. this someone comes from a business background and leads a software team

blob:

Imagine someone thinking UAT testing is the same as unit testing. this someone comes from a business background and leads a software team

Such might not happen in the state of Texas and in Canada because only Licensed Software Engineers are allowed to develop critical software applications.

Febup:


Such might not happen in the state of Texas and in Canada because only Licensed Software Engineers are allowed to develop critical software applications.

There are some positions however that only Licensed Software Engineers can trod because there is different between Computer Science and Programming - a gap that is as wide as heaven and earth.

So being a professional programmer only that can code like 100 languages still has its limited without being a Licensed Software Engineer - this is something that the Oyinbo people are very mindful of, and it is very important too.