@ NordicRace or what the Bleep u call urself , ur the greatest fool here , u people come to africa and we treat ur like kings, if i may ask u what the Bleep u think u r? cock sucking bastard , i bet u whites can't do it without us , fucking racist , pervert fool ,

Debosky, you are right again. We do need to have a sensible discussion. At the moment, the UK cannot sustain the levels of immigration it is seeing. I am of the opinion that legal migration is an issue that governments can control if they choose to. Illegal immigration can be "contained" but not 100% controlled i.e people can overstay visas etc.

The UK government can limit the number of work permits given, limit the number of tier 1 visas given per year, limit the number of student visas, stop the post study work visas etc. Why havent they done it? Is it soo hard to implement? I would want to think that there are other reasons why they keep on allowing immigration on this scale in the UK and still turn a blind eye.

There has been waves of west indian (Jamaican?) immigrants between 1948 and 1970 (see link: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/lesson11.htm). I also know that the UK government went to west indian countries and recruited immigrants to work in the underground, post office etc. The same with Indians who immigrated to the UK. At that time, they needed immigrant labour.

What I am trying to say is that at the moment, due to the recession and its lasting effect (we are looking at 2-5 years of its effect on the economy of the UK at best) immigration will have to be reduced. But be rest assured that when the economy of the UK needs to get back on its feet, immigration numbers will go up as it is all part of the process of "labour needs" of the national economy.



PS: ignore NordicRace. He is can be more intelligent that he is being on this forum. But chooses to be uneducated and narrow minded with incorrect facts and perceptions. How can you have a conversation with someone who chooses to be myopic? I can compare it to joining a British or American forum and I keep on posting "All whites are paedophiles, All whites are paedophiles". It is just plain silly.

No doubt, immigration must be tightened but the suggestions David Cameron, Debosky and silentc are giving are just not workable.

I'm sure the Labour Govt must've looked at these issues and thought against it.

Immigration is a natural phenomenon. Putting a stop or an an unrealistic cap is just not going to work.
Under David Blunket, labour tried estimating and then putting a cap on the number of migrants from East of Europe. I'm sure you guys know what happened??

Fact is, Britain stand to lose out on. . . . . .  if nothing the tax income. The UK will be hit hard should they try stopping people from coming here whether as students  or anything else by taking away the chance and opportunity to settle here.

Do you expect the Brits to clean toilets, work in burger King/maccyD's/KFC?
Do you expect the Brits to do triple over-time at work?
Can you give the average Brit an impromptu call. . . .  .begging him to cover up for someone at work??

The list is endless, . . . .

Common now, these are real issues.


Oh yeah, by the way, Canada appears to be the new destination for students.

I like Cameron but his ideas especially in relation to immigration are misplaced.

First, I dont want to contribute to this thread because I can understand that NORDICRACE is an slowpoke and lack sensibility. All his point here is baseless. His username shows he is from scandanvian so if he lives in Uk he is an immigrant too if he dont understand the meaning of immigrant. People should ignore him or use Nigerian broken english for him. so that he will be dying if he is truly a white guy. that is by the way.
@ Debosky, you have some points and you are entitled to your opinion about cutting down immigrants in Uk. But I must differ from your points. I think the conservative just like in any other countries mostly have baseless arguments and reasoning. What are the conservatives afraid of in Uk? They cant compete with the challenges in their country? With population of about 62millions and they are frighten. That is shying away from responsibilities and unable to face challenges. USA is the biggest economy with population of about 308 millions and still can manage their country. Also, China and India are the two emerging economy in the world with population of about 1billions each.
Yes, I agree that every country should control illegal immigrants so that they can actually know the number of people in their country and also help in controlling crime rate.
@ Debosky you only mention the cons of increase in number immigrants but you failed to mention the pros. Decrease in wages is not mainly as result of increase in population of immigrant. the fact, is well managed population growth brings about growth in economy. E.g, companies cant sale if there are not people to buy hence lower wages and even unemployment. So the issue here is every countries should manage their population growth well and not only by cutting down population growth.
If population should be the problem in Uk today then, I have to agree that British were the major cause of problem in some countries e.g Nigeria. Nigeria supposes not to be one country but the British unite them together during their colony. By the way you can answer this question, why British bring people of different culture, language and ethnic background together in Nigeria?
The conservatives should wake up from the slumber and face the challenges in their country.

The UK government can limit the number of work permits given, limit the number of tier 1 visas given per year, limit the number of student visas, stop the post study work visas etc. Why havent they done it? Is it soo hard to implement? I would want to think that there are other reasons why they keep on allowing immigration on this scale in the UK and still turn a blind eye.

Why would any country want to limit these type of immigrants? When there are other who break the law to get into the country, those are more likely to committ crime, claim benefit, indulge in anti social behaviours etc
The number of illegal immigrant is more of a problem than immigrants who took time and effort to apply according to the rules.

THIS silly Nordic racist - what is he doing here. are u tired of commenting on the bnp website or something - yes Nigeria has higher unemplyment but that should be expected when it has 3 times your population. as a higher income tax payer (yes not all of us are cleaners and bleeding the state dry) this country is a welfare state - accept it and embrace it. Nigeria does not provide welfare for its citizens so where u get the idea it is a welfare state is beyond me.

you want American citizens - um u do know that black people can be American as well right? ewu - and by the way there is no such language as Nigerian u ignorant ewu. don't start racist posts on a Nigerian website cos we will disgrace your illiterate backside here.

its lazy Brits like you that annoy me,  if all the black and brown people left the UKand stopped doing business with the british - your beloved country would become a 4th world country. get with it my friend - the world is a global villiage the empire fell years ago and u remain a developed country purely based on a debt economy and taxing your citizens to the hilt.

What are the conservatives afraid of in Uk? They cant compete with the challenges in their country? With population of about 62millions and they are frighten. That is shying away from responsibilities and unable to face challenges. USA is the biggest economy with population of about 308 millions and still can manage their country. Also, China and India are the two emerging economy in the world with population of about 1billions each.
Yes, I agree that every country should control illegal immigrants so that they can actually know the number of people in their country and also help in controlling crime rate.

unfortunate you didnt compare the land mass of these countries, you do realise that the UK is an Island right?
You also didnt consider the natural resources available to these countries, its good to have huge population if you can feed them and house them but if you have limited space and resources then you will eventually have a problem.

Well said Redsky1 (your comments on NordicRace)

When the tories get rumbled with this proposal, they will claim its just that - a proposal that will be fined tuned later on, but they will be repeating these in tory councils and all town where there is a high number of job seekers
just to get some votes.

OMO IBO:

No doubt, immigration must be tightened but the suggestions David Cameron, Debosky and silentc are giving are just not workable.

They are workable - the US has done it, Australia has done it so why not the UK?

I'm sure the Labour Govt must've looked at these issues and thought against it.

No they haven't they are HOPING that the economic recession will naturally reduce numbers without the need for curbs. That way, they remain popular with the immigrant communities by not appearing to clamp down and thus remain in government.

Immigration is a natural phenomenon. Putting a stop or an an unrealistic cap is just not going to work.
Under David Blunket, labour tried estimating and then putting a cap on the number of migrants from East of Europe. I'm sure you guys know what happened??

Wrong - Immigration started GROWING exponentially when Britain lowered the barriers for entry and consciously decided to INCREASE the number of work permits issued.

Fact is, Britain stand to lose out on. . . . . .  if nothing the tax income. The UK will be hit hard should they try stopping people from coming here whether as students  or anything else by taking away the chance and opportunity to settle here.

Don't make bland generalizations - the numbers have been crunched and the result is this:
Their overall conclusion was that immigration has very small impacts on GDP per capita (production per head), whether positive or negative [2]. The government's own evidence put this at 0.15% per year[3] which works out at an annual benefit of 62p per head per week

So they are losing out on 62p per head per week? Give me a break. Immigration has hidden costs which are not apparent to you - the immigrants send OUT of Britain - £4bn a year which has doubled in the last 10 years. In essence, the British economy is losing £4bn due to immigrants spending the money in their home countries rather than in the UK.

Do you expect the Brits to clean toilets, work in burger King/maccyD's/KFC?
Do you expect the Brits to do triple over-time at work?
Can you give the average Brit an impromptu call. . . .  .begging him to cover up for someone at work??

The Brits will do this work if necessary - immigration keeps wages depressed hence those jobs pay too low to support non immigrants. Immigrants will accept virtually any job just to live in the UK.

Oh yeah, by the way, Canada appears to be the new destination for students.

How many students? I studied in Canada and it is far more difficult to get there than the UK - you MUST be interviewed and properly assessed, not like the sham UK system where a COMMERCIAL company (Whose interest is in more approvals to generate more applications) checks the documents and MAJORITY of visas go through without proper checks like the previous process involving interviews.

Besides, Canada is seeking to grow it's population, so the students can go there if they wish.

I like Cameron but his ideas especially in relation to immigration are misplaced.

I disagree - Labour is also claiming to cut immigration, but by doing nothing, while Cameron will take concrete steps to do so. No one wants to live in a run down, overcrowded country and concrete steps must be made to prevent the UK from going down that route.

Dis Guy:

Why would any country want to limit these type of immigrants? When there are other who break the law to get into the country, those are more likely to committ crime, claim benefit, indulge in anti social behaviours etc
The number of illegal immigrant is more of a problem than immigrants who took time and effort to apply according to the rules.

SOME of these immigrants have abused the system. Many go to sham colleges, get sham degrees and get IGS, get naturalised and citizenship and then proceed to import their families who use the system. Others just keep on as perpetual students, claiming to move from course to course, getting bogus letters of enrollment and being students for years on end, while finding a way (e.g sham marriage) to legalise.

Of what benefit are these kinds of people?

What about the companies ABUSING work permits to hire less competent hands from India (who are paid much less of course) and using them to displace qualified British workers just to save on wage costs? It's one thing to outsource a business to India, but to create unemployed British people by bringing in people INTO the country? Where on earth would that be sensible? Especially in a recession?

Finally, the sheer numbers are TOO HIGH. It's not only about getting productive citizens joining the country, it's about making sure you don't over burden healthcare, schools and other facilities.

legal immigrants bring dependants, have more children than the British and thereby require more NHS, school and housing - all this drives up costs for everyone and taxes as well.

You cannot add 2m people every 10 years (the size of Birmingham) to the UK without adequate facilities. The UK is broke and cannot afford to provide the additional healthcare nfrastructure for that massive number of people coming in.

You cannot add 2m people every 10 years (the size of Birmingham) to the UK without adequate facilities. The UK is broke and cannot afford to provide the additional healthcare nfrastructure for that massive number of people coming in.

You will agree the govt need to deal with illegals first before targeting those taking advantage of the loopholes
You will also have to take into consideration the number of people leaving britain each year

Dis Guy:

You will agree the govt need to deal with illegals first before targeting those taking advantage of the loopholes

It depends - which is easier to tackle? Stopping more from coming or removing the ones already here? Personally both need to be done, but it makes more sense in stopping more people from coming in the first place, since if you do that, you reduce the likelihood of people coming legally in the first instance and then choosing to stay on illegally.

You will also have to take into consideration the number of people leaving britain each year

That number has been considered. When you do the net calculations (incoming - outgoing) you have a net incoming figure of 200,000 per year.

The incoming figure is ~500,000 while outgoing is ~300,000.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/nov/26/migration-asylum-statistics

All these issues of immigration in Europe today are caused by lack of proper integration policies and the implementation of these policies. And also, lack of proper control of illegal immigrants. If Uk succeed in cutting down African and Asia immigrants, then what about the immigrants from Eastern Europe that are member of EU. Are they going to ask them to leave too which will go against European Union law?

All these issues of immigration in Europe today are caused by lack of proper integration policies

Integration policies do not work because europeans dont want you her ein the first place. You think you can just wave a wand and europeans will accept you.

Why are you even criticising europe in the first place, who we let into our country is our business not yours.

NordicRace:

All these issues of immigration in Europe today are caused by lack of proper integration policies

Integration policies do not work because europeans dont want you her ein the first place. You think you can just wave a wand and europeans will accept you.

Why are you even criticising europe in the first place, who we let into our country is our business not yours.

Sorry, u poor thing, u guy came to African first, remember? So stop going on about silly things more Afrcans will come and benefit from ur system

NordicRace:

All these issues of immigration in Europe today are caused by lack of proper integration policies

Integration policies do not work because europeans dont want you her ein the first place. You think you can just wave a wand and europeans will accept you.

Why are you even criticising europe in the first place, who we let into our country is our business not yours.

Hey BLOCKHEAD, stop trying to pass as someone who can reason with his brains. You are one of those humans that simply act on instinct rather than intellect. The people engaging you in discussion fail to understand your mental capacities.

I DON"T

In their quest  to explain their origins and delude their history your scientist created Racism and exported this phenomena to other parts of the world polluting other colored peoples minds. You are an unfortunate result of its pratice in perpetuaty. A walking MENTAL ILLNESS THAT TRULY NEEDS TO BE ERADICATED in other for the remainder of humanity to truly reach its evolutionary potentials.



MORPHEUS SAYS" IT IS INEVITABLE. WE WILLWIN THIS FIGHT!!!

I laugh in Nordic race obviously this Nordic race of a man have no clue about immigration or the real causes of UK immigration; he's one of the fat white cats milking the system dry by getting incapacity/disable benefits despite being able to refree a football march I have no more time for you Nordic race because if i decide to give you answers for most of the issue you raised you'll realise why you and you typical daily mail readers are so completely ignorant with empty heads,

David Cameron's speech is nothing but a political gimmick, its an election targeted speech, the truth is bitter but i can assure that he'll not fulfil 25% of his promise to cut immigration and if you doubt it let's wait and see. UK has a long history of picking on soft targets hence his desire to pick on students and other legal migrants, he obviously have no answer for illegal immigrants who has disapeared into the system many of whom are still claiming one benefit or the other .

His proposal of students depositing £6000 can never work and if he decides to go ahead its bye bye to UK as a top educational destination and believe me many other countries will take up these students in no time. There's no doubt that the UK need to control its immigration but it must be done with common sense and strategically implemented rather than making noise on Andrew Marr show to gain votes.

Truly, a lot of students here in the UK have no idea what they have come to do in the UK, many of them I've met in Manchester here attending colleges are academically bankrupt and wouldn't even stand a chance to get admission to some NCE in Nigeria but whose fault is this?, its the fault of the UKBA who refuses to properly interview these students before handing visa to them like sweets I am very sure that students visas approvals will drop by up to 60% if most of the applicants are interviewed. There are many more sensible way but i cannot mention now but its still very important to take a sensible and strategic approach to reduce immigration not just by pressing the panic button

He is talking nonsense when its 75% of the immigrants thats contributing to the economy.

A student visa is different because as long as an applicant meets the requirements financially and qualifications wise at the time of application he/she does not need to be interviewed. because it will be illegal to reject him at the end of the day provided his documents are valid. the embassy have no choice because if he is refused and he appeals he or she will get their visa at the embassy's expense
So I dont think an interview matters

joxiri:


A student visa is different because as long as an applicant meets the requirements financially and qualifications wise at the time of application he/she does not need to be interviewed. because it will be illegal to reject him at the end of the day provided his documents are valid. the embassy have no choice because if he is refused and he appeals he or she will get their visa at the embassy's expense
So I dont think an interview matters

You could still very well be refused even if you meet all the requirements, meeting all the requirements does not automatically qualify you to get the visa, several factors such as past immigration history as well as criminal record and many other reasons could be taken into consideration. As a matter of fact I've watched some UK border programs where students applicants were refused because the level of their oral and written English is abysmally low, as soon as I find the link for this interview on youtube i'll paste it here.

You'll be surprised that most students here can hardly speak English, and this is the same language they are meant to use for their study, if those students have been properly interviewed they'll stand no chance of getting the visa in the first place, at the moment the present method of student visa is more or less like issuing visa by proxy.

@joxiri
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/studyingintheuk/adult-students/

go to the web page above and download the Guidance for student applying under tier 4, check page 8 of the guidance for more info

Obviously criminal records will stand against any individual for anything be it a job or whatever, but i dnt think that makes a difference cos u are asked to dislose that in the application form already

adding to that cos the new system is points based if you meet the requirements you automatically get the visa, just like if u dnt attain some points you are automaticaly rejected theres no room for discretion anymore
it basically makes the case workers task easier

NordicRace:

white immigrants are not a sexual threat tou our white women.

that must worry you a lot

The real problem with UK population and immigration is the EU not from those outside the EU. Britain has one of the toughest visa standard in the world and 98% of those issued work visa indeed derserve it

The total population permitted entry under the work permit visa is so small as to seriously concern anyone but the EU is different. The move to the UK in droves. They are the problem and as always those from outside the EU takes the blame. If they like let them cut immigration by 99%, the problem will be the same. Infact what they have now is a major brain drain on Africa as only our best gets to be admitted there

Best of luck to Mr Cameron

dancewith:

The real problem with UK population and immigration is the EU not from those outside the EU. Britain has one of the toughest visa standard in the world and 98% of those issued work visa indeed derserve it

How do you know this? Do you know how many cases of ABUSE have been highlighted?

The total population permitted entry under the work permit visa is so small as to seriously concern anyone but the EU is different.

Over 150,000 work permits issued last year ALONE a small number? What would be a big number? What about their dependents? What about the 370,000 student visas issued last year of which a large number will eventually seek to get work permits?

Net migration into the UK is about 200,000 people a year. Remove half the student visas and half the work permits and you bring that figure to ZERO. That is how much of an impact it's having.

The move to the UK in droves. They are the problem and as always those from outside the EU takes the blame. If they like let them cut immigration by 99%, the problem will be the same.

This is not true - while a lot have moved from Eastern Europe a lot have left and this number is projected to drop and will be less than 100,000 per year.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/briefingPaper/document/40

The overwhelming growth in the UK population will be caused by non-EU immigration.

Infact what they have now is a major brain drain on Africa as only our best gets to be admitted there

While that may be true in many cases, it is not ALWAYS the case - Nigerian students who go to the UK for degrees and finish and end up without jobs or doing menial jobs are not using their talents to the benefit of the UK. But they still keep coming year after year. Many finish and go underground into the illegal immigrant system.

Best of luck to Mr Cameron

Whomever wins the election will need to tackle immigration one way or the other - the current rate is unsustainable, especially in a recession.

David Cameron is full of s***.

Thamemead I thought yu were a conservative

joxiri:


Thamemead I thought yu were a conservative

Hell no, am not, I support lib Dems, I do not c them winning d election but i think its going to be a hung parliament so fingers crossed, the lib Dems and Labour will form the next government. I can not stand david cameron, I hate him, I hate everything he stands for. he's cocky and the master of spin, I wish he quietly falls under his jaguar,

David Cameron should be focusing on Lord Ashcroft, d Conservative Party Deputy whose tax status is unknown as well as Ben Goldsmith - parliamentary MP for Richmond who is a non-dom, he does not pay tax but wants to be an MP, d scumbag even donated £250,000 to his own electoral campaign via a company in Barbados, these wealthy people make me sick,

David Cameron does not have a mind of it's own, he's bn backed by the gutter SUN newspaper owned by Rupert Mudoch, same guy that owns FOX NEWS, meaning if he wins d election, SKY NEWS will be the new Fox NEWS, I hope to GOD David Cameron does not make it but then the Labour party need to declare Jihad (HOLY WAR) on the conservatives, they need to get rid of that boring and dull Gordon Brown,

As for immigration, i think preachers of hate not born in the country should be sent back to their country of origin, illegal immigrants should be granted amensty,

Dis Guy:

When the tories get rumbled with this proposal, they will claim its just that - a proposal that will be fined tuned later on, but they will be repeating these in tory councils and all town where there is a high number of job seekers
just to get some votes.

well said

pls ignore NordicRace,