tintingz:
Yes

where?

jtigwell0:
flop

How?

Zeus is the sky and thunder god

Zeus is the king supreme God of all gods.

So why Allah, why not Zeus, why not Odin, why not Brahma?

lol, you asked a question and you brought 2 options and I said the answer is not in both option, then you call that euthyphro philosophical question? wow.. you're clever

This was what I asked,

# Why does God command? Does he command because it is good for humans or he command because he feels like commanding?

And read about Euthyphro dilemma
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

tintingz:


Zeus is the king supreme God of all gods.

So why Allah, why not Zeus, why not Odin, why not Brahma?

truth is obvious, unless you haven't faced it..

This was what I asked,

# Why does God command? Does he command because it is good for humans or he command because he feels like commanding?

Verily, His Command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, “Be!” – and it is - 36:82 your answer bolded..

And read about Euthyphro dilemma
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

read about it probably before you

tintingz:
Does God knew Satan will ask for forgiveness or not?

Yes

fday3:
this is enough for me to believe someone is behind the door


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkHU48Yuu-0

What a fuckery is this? Is this how desperate religious people are?

tintingz:
What a fuckery is this? Is this how desperate religious people are?

triggered... i feel your burn.

jtigwell0:
truth is obvious, unless you haven't faced it..

Your truth is not obvious to Brahma worshiper.

Verily, His Command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, “Be!” – and it is - 36:82 your answer bolded..

Does he has reason for what he intend to do or not?

read about it probably before you

Lol, really? Excuses

tintingz:
Your truth is not obvious to Brahma worshiper who never saw the truth

fixed

Does he has reason for what he intend to do or not?

sure.

Lol, really? Excuses

no

tintingz docZeey agentofallah:
^^ Empir.ee.

# Why does God command? Does he command because it is good for humans or he command because he feels like commanding?

# Are humans actions base on freewill or destiny? You said what will happen will happen and it has been known and written down, does our actions depend on what has been written down, known by God?

It is either destiny doesn't exist or freewill doesn't exist, mixing the two will always clash.

I can understand all your misunderstanding and frustration. I believe in Qadr 100%. it is part of articles of faith. It is backed uo by both islamic sources. This issue of predestination and free will s historical long debate. It led to one of the earliest sectarian schisms in the Muslim community, between the Qadarites, who believed in absolute human free will (Allah has no control over us), and the Jabarites, who believed in absolute determinism and fatalism (we have no control over our actions). Each of these groups developed an extreme and misguided theology. If Allah has no control, then why call upon Allah in prayer? And if we have no control over our actions and fate, why do any good deeds at all?


The Quran and Sunnah take a middle path between the two historical extremes, upholding both the sovereignty of Allah and the responsibility of humankind. From a purely rational standpoint, these two aspects seem mutually exclusive; in other words, it seems they cannot both be true. However, we have to remember that Allah exists outside of time and space, beyond the cosmic veil in the Unseen. By contrast, we human beings can only conceive of realities within the framework of time and space. Divine providence, or predestination, is a reality that exists beyond time and space, which means we are simply incapable of conceiving it with our limited rational faculties.


For this reason, Allah communicated the reality of providence using the tools of language, in particular, literary imagery which in Qura’nic science involves “expressing a mental meaning by use of sensory and visualized pictures.”


Miss docZeey quoted a hadth up there about human creation and destiny in our mother's womb. This means we are set upon a path, with our fate ahead of us, as soon as we enter this world. Yet our will and our actions are meaningful because, by Allah’s will, they are the causes of changing course. Since Allah is in control of destiny, the only way to secure a good fate is to appeal to Allah through worship, prayer, and good deeds. We have no absolute control by ourselves. In this sense, the “pens have been lifted and the pages have dried.”


The Prophet ﷺ said:

"Be mindful of Allah and He will protect you. Be mindful of Allah and you will find Him before you. If you ask, ask from Allah. If you seek help, seek help from Allah. Know that if the nations gather together to benefit you, they will not benefit you unless Allah has decreed it for you. And if the nations gather together to harm you, they will not harm you unless Allah has decreed it for you. The pens have been lifted and the pages have dried."


AgentofAllah, remember i said earlier that the most important thing is knowing God, worshipping Him and making istighfar?. The above hadith reiterates that fact. Notice that in this hadith, the Prophet ﷺ informed us, through his companion Ibn Abbas (ra), that the decree has already been made. The pages have been dried. Even so, the Prophet ﷺ prescribed action: to be mindful of Allah and to seek help from Allah.

The important point to understand is that everything happens by the will of Allah, despite Allah not being pleased with everything that is allowed to happen. There are two ways in which “the will of Allah” is understood: the universal will and the legislative will. The universal will encompasses everything that is allowed to be, both good and evil. The legislative will consists of what Allah wants from us of good deeds.



One of the early scholars in the creed of Al-Tahawi, writes:


The researchers among Ahl al-Sunnah say that ‘will’ in the book of Allah is two types: a will that is preordained, universal, and creative, and a will that is religious, commanding, and legislating. Thus, the legislative will includes what Allah loves and is pleased with, and the universal will is what is willed, including all things that occur. The confusion that led to sectarianism in early Islamic history was due to the Qadarites’ and Jabarites’ failure to understand this point.


Ibn Abi al-‘Izz writes:

The origin of the error is from equating between the will of desire and the will of enacting, and between love and pleasure. Thus, the Jabarites and the Qadarites equate them both, then they disagree. The Jabarites said all of existence is by decree and measure, so it is loved and pleasing to Allah. The Qadarites said sinful disobedience is not beloved and pleasing to Allah, so it cannot be ordained and decreed by him; it is outside of His will and creation. Yet the distinction between what is willed and what is loved has been made in the Book, the Sunnah, and sound instinct.


To sum this up, the Jabarites said Allah decrees good and evil and therefore loves them both, while the Qadarites said what is evil is not by the decree of Allah—which means it is created by some other power. The Jabarites denied the moral responsibility of humankind; the Qadarites denied the full power of the Creator.

So AgentofAllah, the above answers your post up there. You seem to alleged that everything is decreed and we have no free will therein. If i get you right, your position is that of Jabarites. Every muslim is required to take middle part. The Quran and Sunnah are clear in expressing the moral responsibility of humankind.


Allah said:

Each soul is responsible for its own actions; no soul will bear the burden of another. You will all return to your Lord in the end, and He will tell you the truth about your differences.



This is the whole purpose of life; the great test culminating at the Day of Judgment would not make sense unless the judgment was just and meaningful. Hence, Allah delegated will to humankind to be used in the service of good. Our will is “free will” in the sense that we are not forced to do what we do. We are rewarded or punished in the Hereafter based upon what we did with our God-given will.


If you disagree @ "agentofAllah", then, there is no need to chase, arrest and imprison robbers, fraudsters, scammers, BH, thieves etc bcus they are destined to do what they do and have no free will. Sorry buddy, there are checks and balances.

^^^ Empiree,

You started your post by saying " you understand our misunderstanding and frustration" no one is misunderstanding anything and frustrated, i think you guys are the ones that doesn't know what destiny and freewill means or maybe your religious manuscript is confused and contradicting, non of you as been able to define destiny and freewill to us.

I was expecting you to define destiny and freewill instead you were contradicting more on your statements.

I think is is better you define destiny and freewill to us instead of writing down baseless epistle. By the definition we can reason out how both works.

And lastly, court don't rely on destiny, court base their judgment on evidence, there is no evidence for destiny nor freewill, it is only an illusion spread by religious folks.

tintingz:
^^^ Empi.ree,

You started your post by saying " you understand our misunderstanding and frustration" no one is misunderstanding anything and frustrated, i think you guys are the ones that doesn't know what destiny and freewill means or maybe your religious manuscript is confused and contradicting, non of you as been able to define destiny and freewill to us.

I was expecting you to define destiny and freewill instead you were contradicting more on your statements.

I think is is better you define destiny and freewill to us instead of writing down baseless epistle. By the definition we can reason out how both works.

And lastly, court don't rely on destiny, court base their judgment on evidence, there is no evidence for destiny nor freewill, it is only an illusion spread by religious folks.

Definitions?. You confused?. And whats court has to do with this?. We are are dealing with free will and destiny here. If you want to talk about crimes, it is a different topic entirely.

destiny and free will are self defined. You never asked for definitions

Empiree:
AgentofAllah, remember i said earlier that the most important thing is knowing God, worshipping Him and making istighfar?. The above hadith reiterates that fact. Notice that in this hadith, the Prophet ﷺ informed us, through his companion Ibn Abbas (ra), that the decree has already been made. The pages have been dried. Even so, the Prophet ﷺ prescribed action: to be mindful of Allah and to seek help from Allah.

So AgentofAllah, the above answers your post up there. You seem to alleged that everything is decreed and we have free will therein. If i get you right, your position is that of Jabarites. Every muslim is required to take middle part. The Quran and Sunnah are clear in expressing the moral responsibility of humankind.


If you disagree @ "agentofAllah", then, there is no need to chase, arrest and imprison robbers, fraudsters, scammers, BH, thieves etc bcus they are destined to do what they do and have no free will. Sorry buddy, there are checks and balances.

You practically just evaded my thought experiment and questions, and then started alleging that I alleged; and prescribing my supposed position to me. For the record, I never alleged anything, you've just completely made up nonsense in my name, nor am I positioned with the Jabarites, Qadarites or parasites...this is your just your invention.

Oh well, at least it cannot be said that I did not try to have a meaningful conversation with you!

Empiree:
Definitions?. You confused?. And whats court has to do with this?. We are are dealing with free will and destiny here. If you want to talk about crimes, it is a different topic entirely.

destiny and free will are self defined. You never asked for definitions

Is this not your word?

If you disagree @ "agent.ofAllah", then, there is no need to chase, arrest and imprison robbers, fraudsters, scammers, BH, thieves etc bcus they are destined to do what they do and have no free will. Sorry buddy, there are checks and balances.

Are these not a crime cases? The constitutional law does not recognize destiny nor your freewill but the law of the land.

So, can you define destiny and freewill?

AgentOfAllah:

You practically just evaded my thought experiment and questions, and then started alleging that I alleged; and prescribing my supposed position to me. For the record, I never alleged anything, you've just completely made up nonsense in my name, nor am I positioned with the Jabarites, Qadarites or parasites...this is your just your invention.

Oh well, at least it cannot be said that I did not try to have a meaningful conversation with you!

no problem. It is not too late. You can make up the third extreme misguided angel you called "PARASITE" to configure a triangle. We already have Jabarites, Qadarites and now PARASITE

This is one of the best threads on the islam section.

See how people are crying over an apostate.

Is it a crime to leave a religion?

AbdulSleeky:
This is one of the best threads on the islam section.

See how people are crying over an apostate.

Is it a crime to leave a religion?

Crying? You are high on something. People were only concerned, which is normal in Islam. How many people do you see "crying" over him now? His choices, his wahala.

lanrexlan:
Crying? You are high on something. People were only concerned, which is normal in Islam. How many people do you see "crying" over him now? His choices, his wahala.

Where have you been? lol

We both know how you guys feel about atheism and apostacy

AbdulSleeky:


Where have you been? lol

We both know how you guys feel about atheism and apostacy

Being around man.

Same way you feel about religion. Years after leaving religion, you can't stop talking about it.

lanrexlan:
Being around man.

Same way you feel about religion. Years after leaving religion, you can't stop talking about it.

False.


I left religion but because of fanatics like you, religion has not left me.

Most atheists only talk about religion because religious people oppress them.

AbdulSleeky:



False.


I left religion but because of fanatics like you, religion has not left me.

Most atheists only talk about religion because religious people oppress them.

Point of correction, I am no fanatic.

Who has been oppressing you that has made talked about religion for years? Is it oppression that made you open loads of monikers to troll religion? Are you still oppressed?

lanrexlan:
Point of correction, I am no fanatic.

Who has been oppressing you that has made talked about religion for years? Is it oppression that made you open loads of monikers to troll religion? Are you still oppressed?

You are a fanatic. If not, you would understand that sharia law in Nigeria is illegal and oppression. How can sharia exist with a secular constitution?

Tell me, have you ever sat down to understand the plight of the atheist in Nigeria?

It is funny how muslims can react to CAN and government schools marginalising muslims but keep quiet when christians and atheists are bullied.

AbdulSleeky:


You are a fanatic. If not, you would understand that sharia law in Nigeria is illegal and oppression. How can sharia exist with a secular constitution?

Tell me, have you ever sat down to understand the plight of the atheist in Nigeria?

It is funny how muslims can react to CAN and government schools marginalising muslims but keep quiet when christians and atheists are bullied.

Your opinions don't define who I am and your perceptions about me isn't me really.

If sharia law is illegal in Nigeria, it is up to the government to pass a judgment on its removal, not my own power. You should direct this anger and energy to the Nigerian government.

It is all about laws, if Muslims are going against laws, they should be punished. If atheists are treated unfairly without the law, then that's wrong. Since Nigerian government recognizes sharia law and your atheist brother knew this, why going against the law? Ignorance isn't an excuse.


Baba no stress me.

lanrexlan:
Your opinions don't define who I am and your perceptions about me isn't me really.

If sharia law is illegal in Nigeria, it is up to the government to pass a judgment on its removal, not my own power. You should direct this anger and energy to the Nigerian government.

It is all about laws, if Muslims are going against laws, they should be punished. If atheists are treated unfairly without the law, then that's wrong. Since Nigerian government recognizes sharia law and your atheist brother knew this, why going against the law? Ignorance isn't an excuse.


Baba no stress me.

It is okay. You just needed a taste of my pain and anger towards the religious injustice that happens in Nigeria