Pidgin2:



Honestly, all I see here is ignorance on your part and nothing else

baby do you see ignorance in me too?

Pidgin2:


If they are sane and have the money, why won't they help humanity by adopting already existing children in orphanages, streets, from abusive parents etc. What makes a child your own is more than donating egg or sperm rather it is by parenting which includes care, nurturing, providing, teaching etc this is what truly makes one a parent and it can be fulfilled through adoption rather than opting for surrogacy with all its complications

in think you're oversimplifying this hugely, from my little findings, holding an adopted child doesn't feel as good as holding a child that medically and legally belongs to you! most of those who did adoption before the advent of IVF would've done IVF instead if it were available at the time and they had the means

I mean, why do people still give birth when there are still lots of children in orphanages?
that kinda sounds like the point you're making

then again adoption isn't as easy in developed world as it is in developing/underdeveloped ones, there are so many rules one has to abide by that at the end of the day its easier (read better) to just do IVF instead

at the end of it all, it all boils down to "choice" and I won't call their choice "madness" cuz I kinda understand the reason behind it

hopefulLandlord:


good points, but as a skeptic, I won't call it madness cuz I somehow understand the reason behind the deed for most people

there are people in showbiz who are a loss of shape away from losing their means of livelihood, have you ever seen a fat CNN news broadcaster? how many fat Hollywood actresses do you know? how many fat Nollywood actresses do you know? I'm pretty sure you can count them on one hand, at most both hands and I'm almost certain you don't know them by their real name but remember thee characters they played (talking Hollywood)

as for thin shapely actresses, they're numerous, too numerous to mention, then again most of these actresses have been in showbiz all their lives, that's the only way they know how to make money, many of them are not even well educated and even if they were, there's a huge stepdown between earning millions of pounds for a week's work and earning tens of thousands in a year

so what they're left with is trying their best to make their careers last as long as possible, they perform all sorts of exercises, adjust their feeding habits, sleeping habits, waking habits etc to keep their weight under control; but birth of a baby has ruined a great many careers and they'll never know the effect having a baby would have on their body till they have the baby and sometimes its too late! movie contracts start reducing to nonexistent levels, endorsements start getting cancelled or not being renewed, modelling contracts get cancelled etc


enough of this sermon, I just wouldn't call most of them mad

You have valid points. But having a baby isn't the only thing that can make a woman lose her stature. There are so many of them. I agree with you that there aren't many fat people in show biz but there are people like Jonah Hill and Melissa McCathy who used their "fatness" and incredible acting skills to gain popularity. Jonah has slimmed down and bit and even Melissa but I don't think they will get as many roles as they are getting now if they transformed to a regular muscular guy and shapely girl respectively.
I believe (and it is my opinion) that the only reason a lady wouldn't want to have kids by herself for fear of losing her shape is laziness. There are lots of thin, shapely girls on Hollywood with children. Heidi Klum is still one of the most respected models in the world (and probably the richest), and she has four Children!! Beyonce had blue and even got hotter after that and is about to have twins and I bet she will get her figure back after that. Look at Catherine, wife of Prince Williams and it is hard to believe two children have come out of that woman. I know some of them go to the extreme (plastic surgery) to get their figures back, but it can be achieved through proper dieting and exercises. One my sister's friend has had three kids and you will still mistake her for a teenager. She runs a fitness class specially for mothers. So yes, a girl who cares about her career in show biz can get back her figure after pregnancy. Its all about discipline. Surrogacy shouldn't be a choice.

analice107:

You even get time dey respond to a man who has no bearing.
What do you expect from a Randomperson?

jonbellion:
baby do you see ignorance in me too?

This may not end well for you

bennyann:


That's more reason why we should adopt them young and train them. Besides there are well organized structures for adopting children, just as there are for choosing surrogate mothers. So you will have no problems at all if the origin of the homeless babies are your problem. If we all decide not to adopt because we know not their origination story, then who would take care of them?

But my parents have found a baby in the gutter before, it really pained them because the elders decided for the baby to be given to the barren. My dad had to select a couple he knows will be very wonderful to the baby. Up till now, my dad acts like a father to him eventhough the child isn't in his care. And do you know how wonderful he's grown to be? I don't see the need for seeing all these children and you do nothing to help them but go after finding a child of your seed, whom you don't want to care about the owner of the other seed added to yours.

That doesn't make sense to me. I prefer making other people happier and do for them what I would have done for my kids before I start having kids of my own in a joyful way, in a way that wouldn't bring sadness to anybody not even for some seconds in the future.

Any good person will feel fulfilled that way.

Which one shows more love?

As a Christian if you don't want to get married, then don't insert your sperm into a woman's vag.ina. That's my thinking and yes, I feel so good about it.

Adoption is better my friend. The child should be allowed to grow to a stage he can now make decisions of his own. So it will be left for the child if he wants to stay with the biological parents or not. Whatever the decision, the good you've done will fight for you.

The man can easily see a faithful woman that will convince him to marry because of that good deed done to unwanted children. It's highly possible. We have right to our opinions but I'm sure we know which one demonstrates a higher love and a lower level of selfish fulfillment.

Besides, I thought surrogates were meant mostly for gays apart from those having medical issues. That's another story entirely though

Nice.

Ranchhoddas:
You cannot use a 2000-year-old text to solve some 21st century problems.

Yes you can.

ilynem:

You have valid points. But having a baby isn't the only thing that can make a woman lose her stature. There are so many of them. I agree with you that there aren't many fat people in show biz but there are people like Jonah Hill and Melissa McCathy who used their "fatness" and incredible acting skills to gain popularity. Jonah has slimmed down and bit and even Melissa but I don't think they will get as many roles as they are getting now if they transformed to a regular muscular guy and shapely girl respectively.
I believe (and it is my opinion) that the only reason a lady wouldn't want to have kids by herself for fear of losing her shape is laziness. There are lots of thin, shapely girls on Hollywood with children. Heidi Klum is still one of the most respected models in the world (and probably the richest), and she has four Children!! Beyonce had blue and even got hotter after that and is about to have twins and I bet she will get her figure back after that. Look at Catherine, wife of Prince Williams and it is hard to believe two children have come out of that woman. I know some of them go to the extreme (plastic surgery) to get their figures back, but it can be achieved through proper dieting and exercises. One my sister's friend has had three kids and you will still mistake her for a teenager. She runs a fitness class specially for mothers. So yes, a girl who cares about her career in show biz can get back her figure after pregnancy. Its all about discipline. Surrogacy shouldn't be a choice.

yes I agree with most of your points but Beyonce drives my point further

did you know that Beyonce was accused to have used a surrogate and used Hollywood prosthetics in place of real pregnancy?

check the video on YouTube, you'll see where she actually "gave herself away" when her pregnancy flopped in a very unnatural way, she did eventually posted naked pictures, but who's to say it wasn't well staged just like "makeup free pictures" we see around?

secondly, during the birth of Blue Bey and Jay actually got the hospital virtually closed down temporarily, there are allegations that they used a surrogate and they just want to cover it all up!

thirdly, they've now built a maternity ward in their own very home! this means they can carry out surrogacy and no one would even suspect

truth is that in these days you CAN'T know if these guys actually used surrogates, they have a team of experts that do the cover up if a surrogate would give birth instead of the celebrity

and there's a huge difference between someone who became popular and gained roles due to her fatness and someone who gained roles for her thin shape but lost it! both can't be compared, the world of showbiz is extremely competitive that they need all the advantages they can get

these people aren't "lazy", if they were they wouldn't be shapely even without childbirth as most of these celebs actually carry out vigorous exercises, diet etc already

I would say they instead just don't want to leave anything to chance

Ranchhoddas:
You cannot use a 2000-year-old text to solve some 21st century problems.

Atheism is 2,500 years old and communist tried using it to solve problems and it turned out to be a blood bath . But the bible has been used to solve many problems .

Have you read Norman's book 'The power of positive thinking'?

Norman mentioned numerous people whose problems were solved through the knowledge of their bible - depression , low self esteem , marital issues , failure in business , and even mental problems were all solved just by reading the bible .

'I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me; - this passage alone elevates your spirit and invigorates your body . People draw strength and power from the Divine source by just quoting this passage whenever they are weak , in pain , depressed or feeling down or despondent .

What are you even saying ?!

Gerrahia mehn

^ the irony of the above post is this thread

hopefulLandlord:
^ the irony of the above post is this thread

Asking if surrogacy is a sin is not a problem . And the answers given are in harmony with the scriptures . The question was asked because of my understanding of the bible .

You too

Gerrarahia

^ the irony is still lost on him

^ I thought he understands irony , maybe I was wrong

hopefulLandlord:


yes I agree with most of your points but Beyonce drives my point further

did you know that Beyonce was accused to have used a surrogate and used Hollywood prosthetics in place of real pregnancy?

check the video on YouTube, you'll see where she actually "gave herself away" when her pregnancy flopped in a very unnatural way, she did eventually posted naked pictures, but who's to say it wasn't well staged just like "makeup free pictures" we see around?

secondly, during the birth of Blue Bey and Jay actually got the hospital virtually closed down temporarily, there are allegations that they used a surrogate and they just want to cover it all up!

thirdly, they've now built a maternity ward in their own very home! this means they can carry out surrogacy and no one would even suspect

truth is that in these days you CAN'T know if these guys actually used surrogates, they have a team of experts that do the cover up if a surrogate would give birth instead of the celebrity

and there's a huge difference between someone who became popular and gained roles due to her fatness and someone who gained roles for her thin shape but lost it! both can't be compared, the world of showbiz is extremely competitive that they need all the advantages they can get

these people aren't "lazy", if they were they wouldn't be shapely even without childbirth as most of these celebs actually carry out vigorous exercises, diet etc already

Like you said, these are allegations. But I know people who have given birth and gotten their figures back. I have two friends who had children out of wedlock and you wouldn't even know unless you ask. One of then specifically told me that the reason she worked to get her figure back is so she can remain appealing to men because she doesn't want to stay unmarried. She doesn't earn millions from having a nice body, she just wants to stay appealing and she's working for it. So why won't someone who earns millions work for theirs too? If you care about your career in showbiz, you will be disciplined enough to work for your figure. But if you can't do that, then maybe you really do not want children. But if you can't go through that stress, then Bennyann has given a super and more reasonable alternative and that is adoption. Now let me paint a picture for you.
A girl with a nice figure and a big career in modeling earning millions of dollars.
She wants children but doesn't want to lose her figure because it will affect her career.
She has three options.
1. Get pregnant and work hard to get your figure back.
2. If you are too lazy and undisciplined to do that, you can adopt. Adoption even shows what a selfless person you are.
3. Surrogate. What does this tell you? A mother who wouldn't risk her career for a child, a mother who isn't disciplined and hard working enough to get back her figure to save her career after the birth of the child and someone who isn't selfless enough to even consider adoption.
If you pick the third option, it simply means you will be a terrible mother and don't deserve that child.

bennyann:


I'm with Ishilove on this.

Because there's now an option for you to have children apart from the normal process, you now see no need for a woman all because of the excuse you're scared of infidelity and the likes. If he really doesn't want to commit sin, he should go and adopt. Adoption is better and sound moral than using a surrogate.

Have you thought of what happens to the surrogate mother? The mental torture they go through after giving birth without having access to the child? What if they're doing it because of money? Do you have an idea how such will carry the pregnancy for those number of months with grief?

What about those that use married women because they feel they have a high rate of fertility as surrogate mothers - is that fair? What about single mothers? Will one feel justified using single ladies to bear child for them and leave them like that? What's now the difference between those having baby mamas and him?

Do you know he would have to select the surrogate mother himself in most cases and that's by natural instincts and physical factors like how beautiful she is and the rest. Do you think that's God's way of choosing? do you think God will prefer the woman they eventually choose? Do you think God will even give him direction as to the kind of surrogate mum he should choose? We're talking about a single man here.

Besides, he might be using the eggs of the surrogate mother, is that not taking the child away from the mother? What will he tell the child when he grows? Is that a story pleasant to our ears or to the ears of God? And if no, do you think it would be pleasant to the child's ears? What will He tell others, his friends, peer groups? What will be his emotional strength after hearing it?

It's better if the child has someone to call a mother but maybe she couldn't conceive normally so they had no option than to go for a surrogate. Even with that they can try using the eggs of the mother and that seems very OK.

KingEbukasBlog tell the man he is very selfish, very very selfish and stingy. Tell him to first think of others he will use to achieve the process, like the woman and the birth child.

And tell him if he really needs children, God would be more pleased with him if he goes for orphanages. There are lots of unwanted babies around and the man, within him will feel fulfilled immediately because he will know as a Christian he has done the right thing and the better thing when he adopts.

Thank you

But ebuka, I hope you're not talking about yourself ooo

Well said there . I learnt a lot from this . Thank you so much . And thanks , Ishilove I get it now

And no , its not me oo .

ilynem:

Sorry I am late to the discussion. I think searching the Bible, you will discover there was actually surrogacy. Not the scientific kind we have today. Hagar served as a surrogate to Abraham and Sarah. I don't think God was angry with Abraham for doing that even though God had promised him that he will have a son through sarah. As we know, in Gen 17:20, God blessed Ishmael as well. But the problem was, Abraham was married and couldn't bear children. A young man who isn't married shouldn't be doing that. God created marriage for many reasons and one of them was to multiply and have children. When you start doing it outside God's arrangement, it becomes a sin.

You are right . Thanks a lot .

KingEbukasBlog:


You are right . Thanks a lot .

You are welcome sir.

ilynem:

Like you said, these are allegations. But I know people who have given birth and gotten their figures back. I have two friends who had children out of wedlock and you wouldn't even know unless you ask. One of then specifically told me that the reason she worked to get her figure back is so she can remain appealing to men because she doesn't want to stay unmarried. She doesn't earn millions from having a nice body, she just wants to stay appealing and she's working for it. So why won't someone who earns millions work for theirs too? If you care about your career in showbiz, you will be disciplined enough to work for your figure. But if you can't do that, then maybe you really do not want children. But if you can't go through that stress, then Bennyann has given a super and more reasonable alternative and that is adoption. Now let me paint a picture for you.
A girl with a nice figure and a big career in modeling earning millions of dollars.
She wants children but doesn't want to lose her figure because it will affect her career.
She has three options.
1. Get pregnant and work hard to get your figure back.
2. If you are too lazy and undisciplined to do that, you can adopt. Adoption even shows what a selfless person you are.
3. Surrogate. What does this tell you? A mother who wouldn't risk her career for a child, a mother who isn't disciplined and hard working enough to get back her figure to save her career after the birth of the child and someone who isn't selfless enough to even consider adoption.
If you pick the third option, it simply means you will be a terrible mother and don't deserve that child.

I think you're committing a lot of false dichotomy here

1. sounds good but there are those who after birth couldn't get it back! and they most likely tried all they could, you seem to be oversimplifying this by implying hard work is all that's needed, its not that simple!! I know people who couldn't, I attend gym every day except Sunday, I've seen women frustrated about childbirth weight gain that just wouldn't go away no matter how hard they try, these aren't even celebs mind you, just the average woman who wants to keep shape for whatever reason they have and I can never call them lazy as even I admire their dedication

how much more a celeb who's source of livelihood is connected to her image? maybe they just don't want to tempt fate by finding out what childbirth does to them

this situation is not as simple as you are making it

2 adoption is hardly an option when there's surrogacy, most people would go for surrogacy ahead of adoption and then again you contradicted your own point with your next point about surrogacy, let me show that

"A mother who wouldn't risk her career for a child" how does adoption actually solve this? does this mean she's now ready to sacrifice her career for an adopted child if such circumstances come up I've seen parents who don't care for their child and I'm pretty sure you've seen many such around too so I see that as a no point, if someone cares for an adopted baby such a person would most likely care more for their own biological baby, it would be very rare even to a point of impossibility to find someone who cares more for an adopted child than a biological one, there's something about it

I think a bit of bias is shinning through here, it seems to me that you're trying hard to paint a caricature of surrogacy

developed countries have several stringent rules when it comes to adoption and next to nothing on surrogacy which makes surrogacy a better alternative to adoption cuz legal bullsheeets are very much avoided

all in all, I'm not saying I support them or I agree with their choice, I simply say that I understand their choice

in the real world its a matter of what works, not opinion of what one deems better
humans try to get the easy way as much as possible, technology has given us these easy ways over the years and now its given (certain) celebs surrogacy which has all the advantages they want

1 shape loss risk is hugely lowered
2 no need carrying any baby for 9 months and the health issues that come with it
3 a child that belongs medically and legally to her husband and her while having NO trace to the woman that carried the baby (As far as we know)
3 next to no complications legally

so if a celeb does chose surrogacy I fully understand her choice so long the surrogate mother isn't being forced (which is impossible)



I see a future where surrogacy is the order of the day especially for celebs

KingEbukasBlog:


Atheism is 2,500 years old and communist tried using it to solve problems and it turned out to be a blood bath . But the bible has been used to solve many problems .

Have you read Norman's book 'The power of positive thinking'?

Norman mentioned numerous people whose problems were solved through the knowledge of their bible - depression , low self esteem , marital issues , failure in business , and even mental problems were all solved just by reading the bible .

'I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me; - this passage alone elevates your spirit and invigorates your body . People draw strength and power from the Divine source by just quoting this passage whenever they are weak , in pain , depressed or feeling down or despondent .

What are you even saying ?!
m
Gerrahia mehn

This unending foolishness of yours is why I no longer like to respond to you anymore. I even find it difficult to read your posts these days as you always find a way to connect every thread to communism, Hitler and mass murder just as you are trying to do now.

Tell me, how can atheism be 2500 years old when David the Psalmist is recorded in the Bible saying, ''the fool says in his heart, there is no God...''?

I know you will respond with something more foolish, and another clown will like your post.

ilynem:

Yes you can.

Using the Bible, how do we stop the Qatari government from funding terrorism?

Ranchhoddas:
This unending foolishness of yours is why I no longer like to respond to you anymore. I even find it difficult to read your posts these days as you always find a way to connect every thread to communism, Hitler and mass murder just as you are trying to do now.

Tell me, how can atheism be 2500 years old when David the Psalmist is recorded in the Bible saying, ''the fool says in his heart, there is no God...''?

I know you will respond with something more foolish, and another clown will like your post.

"another clown"? there's only one

his posts have one like and one share by default from that clown

KingEbukasBlog:


This may not end well for you

lol
Pidgin2's undying love for me and I for her is well known so I don't know what the heck you're talking about

Ranchhoddas:
This unending foolishness of yours is why I no longer like to respond to you anymore. I even find it difficult to read your posts these days as you always find a way to connect every thread to communism, Hitler and mass murder just as you are trying to do now.

Tell me, how can atheism be 2500 years old when David the Psalmist is recorded in the Bible saying, ''the fool says in his heart, there is no God...''?

I know you will respond with something more foolish, and another clown will like your post.

David prophecied about Jesus too.
Jesus wasnt born on earth then.
So whats your point.?

jonbellion:
lol
Pidgin2's undying love for me and I for her is well known so I don't know what the heck you're talking about

perhaps he's jealous

Ranchhoddas:
This unending foolishness of yours is why I no longer like to respond to you anymore. I even find it difficult to read your posts these days as you always find a way to connect every thread to communism, Hitler and mass murder just as you are trying to do now.

My brother , I don't even mention you . You must be obsessed with me . Wishing and hoping that I notice your comments

T

ell me, how can atheism be 2500 years old when David the Psalmist is recorded in the Bible saying, ''the fool says in his heart, there is no God...''?

I know you will respond with something more foolish, and another clown will like your post.

According to Historians , the origin of the book of Psalms is not earlier than the 5th century during the post-Exilic period - isn't this the same time atheism began (between the 5th and 6th century )?

Who is now the foolish one ?

hopefulLandlord:


"another clown"? there's only one

his posts have one like and one share by default from that clown

Felixomor , this cheerleader and a myrmidon of sonofluc1fer immediately hopped on the bandwagon of foolishness that ignorant dude was driving - this speaks volumes of the superior intelligence he claims to have.

felixomor:


David prophecied about Jesus too.
Jesus wasnt born on earth then.
So whats your point.?

Are you sure you understand the question?

We are talking about the ''age'' of atheism. I no know wetin concern Jesus for this matter.

KingEbukasBlog:


Felixomor , this cheerleader and a myrmidon of sonofluc1fer immediately hopped on the bandwagon of foolishness that ignorant dude was driving - this speaks volumes of the superior intelligence he claims to have.

LoL
Free him bro.
The guy is on his periodic intellectual spasms

KingEbukasBlog:


Felixomor , this cheerleader and a myrmidon of sonofluc1fer immediately hopped on the bandwagon of foolishness that ignorant dude was driving - this speaks volumes of the superior intelligence he claims to have.

did my post hit a nerve?

Follow the natural way made by God for procreation unless you are medically unable to do so
Using it for your own selfish aim is #EVIL

Ranchhoddas:
Are you sure you understand the question?

We are talking about the ''age'' of atheism. I no know wetin concern Jesus for this matter.

Exactly,
Just as u were trying to use a poem of david to deduct age of atheism.

U missed it first,

By the way, how far your Barcelona prophecy?
The only simple prophecy u ever attempted

KingEbukasBlog:


My brother , I don't even mention you . You must be obsessed with me . Wishing and hoping that I notice your comments

T

According to Historians , the origin of the book of Psalms is not earlier than the 5th century during the post-Exilic period - isn't this the same time atheism began (between the 5th and 6th century )?

Who is now the foolish one ?

5th century? Who wrote the book of Psalms?