Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time - Religion - Nairaland
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| Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by blacksta(m): 10:07pm On Jan 27, 2010 |
I require more clarification on the above topic . The following scriptures says 1 Luk 6:38 Give, and it will be given to you; good measure, crushed down, full and running over, they will give to you. For in the same measure as you give, it will be given to you again. 2. If I give to the poor i lend to God - . 3. Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. And i am sure they are many more scriptures that deal with this matter. Is seedtime about money -- more to come shortly Please share your thoughts on this matter |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by blacksta(m): 11:15am On Jan 28, 2010 |
When it is time to discuss serious kingdom matters nobody turns up - but when it is matters that display your fake self righteousness such insulting others of other religion the thread goes 40 pages and still counting. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by Tudor6(f): 11:53am On Jan 28, 2010 |
Since your christian brethren have ignored and abandoned you, do you want my own contribution? |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by blacksta(m): 12:07pm On Jan 28, 2010 |
ol boy or girl - let hear your own contribution but please dont derail the thread dont mind this yeye people - when it is to insult - the thread will go 100 pages - Long time no hear anyway |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by ogajim(m): 9:21pm On Jan 28, 2010 |
It's NOT about MONEY! GOOD deeds, Love, Compassion, etc far OUTWEIGH money in the things of God but those who have a lot to benefit from the money will beg to differ I am sure  Shalom. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by viaro: 9:41pm On Jan 28, 2010 |
ogajim: The better thing to say is that it is not only about money - which means, it extends beyond money to other types of giving of our material blessings to others. You need to study the passages carefully before drawing uninformed conclusions, even if others disagree with you. That some may disagree does not mean therefore that they are wrong, so no need to put everyone in a box. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by Joagbaje(m): 6:39am On Jan 29, 2010 |
You have said it all .The bible is self explanatory, The kingdom of God runs on the principle of giving and recieving. Most people desire to have but dont give, Every body should be focus on the giving part, the result of receiving will be natural effect. Our partaking in all the blessings of God is determined by some deeds of faith. For example ,you dont need to pray for long life if you want to live long.There are deeds of faith that are required for long life. One of such is to take care of your parents. Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. Even though we are no longer under the law ,some instructions given under the law are still valid because they are revelations of God's principles. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by aletheia(m): 3:44pm On Jan 29, 2010 |
blacksta: Seedtime is not about money. I believe you are referring to the popular misquote of Genesis 8:22 and other scriptures that are taken out of context and twisted to justify the extortion that goes on in some franchises that call themselves churches. Case in point is your quote of Gal 6:7, how about the following verse Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Examining those verses show it to be an exhortation to do good to everyone (of which giving is but a component). |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by viaro: 11:32pm On Jan 29, 2010 |
aletheia:Seedtime is not only about money - meaning that it includes the manner of our handling money (whether in making or spending or giving it for whatever cause). I believe you are referring to the popular misquote of Genesis 8:22 and other scriptures that are taken out of context and twisted to justify the extortion that goes on in some franchises that call themselves churches.Minus the extortion, please tell us what Genesis 8:22 could be applicable to. Case in point is your quote of Gal 6:7, how about the following verseThe whole section extends to verses 9 & 10 -Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith. . and that most definitely includes the giving of our material blessings to others. Examining those verses show it to be an exhortation to do good to everyone (of which giving is but a component).How do you come to "do good" to anyone by including "giving" if you already ruled at 'money' at the beginning? |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by aletheia(m): 3:59pm On Jan 30, 2010 |
viaro:1. Dear Sir, What does Genesis 8:21-22 actually say?
Can you see from the scripture there that the LORD refers to the agricultural cycle, the seasons and the daily cycles. Why don't we hear about the law of cold and heat? or the law of summer and winter? &c 2. If you reread my post, you will see that I did not rule out giving money. I only said seedtime as I understand it from Genesis 8 is not about money. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by PastorAIO: 6:22pm On Jan 30, 2010 |
@Viaro 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith Please can you tell us what we are to do if we faint finish before harvest time. lol. What a funny scripture! You can tell that the guy is talking from experience. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by pastor2009: 7:23pm On Jan 30, 2010 |
Sure, Seed time is never all about money, rather it cut across all humanbeing put up as characters.Meaning that what soever a man sow will definitely reap them all both here on earth and the earth to come. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by viaro: 6:49pm On Jan 31, 2010 |
aletheia: I asked a rather simple question, not solicit for an attitude - I know how to dish it nicely if so required. The point in my question 'what Genesis 8:22 could be applicable to' was to show that the verse transcends merely agricultural circles. The prophetic declarations of Scripture go beyond mere literal and simplistic reading - which is what many people do with the Genesis 8:22. If we look carefully, would it not be clear that there was a covenant being made there? Compare with Jeremiah 33:20 where God again highlights His unbreakable covenant of the day and covenant of the night, which yet He does not imply merely for agricultural circles but rather with the multiplying of the seed of David. Of course, 'seed' there does not mean agricultural plants - that much we can agree on. I think many of us should get past the very simplistic interpretations we often attach in the drive to highlight literalism. There are times when a verse of Scripture which first appears ordinary becomes quite significant in the body of other texts. An example: in 1 Cor. 9:9 the author quotes Deut. 25:4 - "it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn" - but he goes on in the NT passage to note that the passage was not emphasizing the agricultural enterprise of oxen (see end of verse 9 and then v. 10). The Bible teaches a principle of sowing and reaping - which is not merely an agricultural matter, but is applied in so many instances to other aspects of our lives and faith, including the question of using our resources (financial and material) to further the interest of the Kingdom in people's lives in very practical ways. An example? Please see 2 Corinthians 9:6-11. 2. If you reread my post, you will see that I did not rule out giving money. I only said seedtime as I understand it from Genesis 8 is not about money. It sounded to me like you had ruled out money - otherwise I don't see why that should have been a problem to you if you did not rule it out in the first place. Whatever, I tried to point out that if we truly believe that money is NOT ruled out, then a better way to have expressed it would be: "Seedtime is not only about money - meaning that it includes the manner of our handling money". For someone to type in bold fonts that "Seedtime is not about money" is saying that money should be ruled out - and yours was the second time I was pointing out the weakness of such ideas (the first being ogajim's in post #4 & #5). |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by aletheia(m): 9:37pm On Jan 31, 2010 |
viaro:1. I do not understand what you mean by an attitude. I assure you I am not trying to be combative here. viaro: 2. Agreed, that Genesis 8:22 refers to a covenant as referenced in Jer 33:20; which was why I included the preceding verse 21 in my earlier post. Gen 8:21 And when the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, the LORD said in his heart, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.You see two things referred to here: a. The curse in Gen 3:17-18 b. The flood which had destroyed every living creature. Because of the way we divide our bible, we assume the narrative breaks at the end of chapter 8 but reading into chapter 9 shows that 8:21-22 is an introduction and in verses 9 to 11 of chapter 9; we read this: "Behold, I establish my covenant with you and your offspring after you, and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the livestock, and every beast of the earth with you, as many as came out of the ark; it is for every beast of the earth. I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth." How then is this phrase "While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease." about money? viaro: 3. While I agree that certain principles set forth in the old testament are further elucidated in the new testament, I still believe that seedtime is not about money. An examination of the principle of sowing and reaping as set forth in Galatians will show that to be so: Gal 6:7-9 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. Bearing in mind that the preceding chapter of the same epistle has this words: Gal 5:19-24 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. [b]But the fruit of the Spirit [/b]is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. And in James Jas 5:7 Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient about it, until it receives the early and the late rains. 4. It is likely that we are expressing the same views albeit using slightly different forms. And perhaps this may be a reflection of our experiences. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by viaro: 10:45pm On Jan 31, 2010 |
@aletheia, Indeed, we might be saying just about the same thing albeit a slight miscommunication seems to come between us. If you took time to carefully consider what I asked: "what Genesis 8:22 could be applicable to", you would at once notice I was not asking for a literal interpretation, but rather its application. So far what I keep reading from you is literal interpretation and nothing about its application. The idea of a literal interpretation of that verse is not very helpful when it comes to applications. If people are looking at it in a literal sense, they should understand that NOT ONCE did we read that these elements {seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night} ever ceased prior to the time of Noah! NOT ONCE. As far as we can see, they continued ight up to the time of Noah, so that after the Flood, they still continued. Let me identify some: The ground was cursed right back from Genesis 3:17 - but since that time, those elements in Gen. 8:22 had continued: [list](a) seedtime and harvest - Cain harvested what he had sown in Gen. 4:2-3 (b) cold and heat, summer and winter - these were never at anytime interrupted right from the time God declared seasons in Gen. 1:14 (c) day and night - as well, these have continued uninterrupted from Adam's day up to before and after Noah and the flood, otherwise how would Noah have known how to number '7 days' or 'forty days and forty nights;' before the flood? (see Gen. 7:4)[/list] The point was that Genesis 8:22 should not be stretched far too literally - because to the simple-mined reader, it would look like those elements ceased at some time before the flood, and that verse was promising that they 'shall not cease'. No, they did not cease at any time. Thus, to help you further, Jeremiah 33:20 was hinted at to show that there possibly could be an application beyond mere agricultural circles. The idea of making it an agricultural circle in the first place does not stand any leg at all - people before the Flood were sowing and harvesting, days and nights did not cease, and seasons continued without any interruptions anywhere, as shown above in the examples! This all prompted my question about applications of Genesis 8:22 earlier. The point, for me, was that this verse forms a foundation of a universal spiritual principle - which I think the OP was trying to share on 'seedtime and harvest'. It is sad indeed that many people flip and freakout where they read such verses and just react against 'money'. That type of situation is poor, because it leaves believers running between two opinions and never arriving at anything concrete. If that verse (Genesis 8:22) rules out money, that's okay - but again, that would simply rule out any other verse about the spiritual principle of sowing and reaping as well! aletheia:Please understand that I was not saying that it is only Jeremiah 33:20 that interprets Genesis 8:22; that was just an example, and it is not the only case for the Genesis verse. You see two things referred to here:Yes, I heard this before. But isn't it ODD that people who make this kind of illation would make HUGE JUMPS and skip verses 1 to 8 of Genesis 9? I'm quite comfortable with the way the sections are divided in the Bible - Genesis 8 ends at verse 22 and chapter 9 is not an extension to verse 22 of chapter 8. How then is this phrase "While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease." about money?I already shared about the principle of sowing and reaping, citing 2 Corinthians 9:6-11. Notice that ever since, I have not rested everything about all these verses upon money as the only thing it speaks about - rather I have repeatedly said that it INCLUDES the way we handle money. The problem with some of these things is that people tend to make exclusive divides over non-essentials: it is either it must be only about money, or else it is not about money. That is not the way these things pan out for me. The verses point to the principle of sowing and reaping - and that INCLUDES the way we handle money and material blessings. 3. While I agree that certain principles set forth in the old testament are further elucidated in the new testament, I still believe that seedtime is not about money.My friend, statements like that tend to rule out money - and if you want to stay on that note, it means that you are ruling it out completely mwithout excuse! On the other hand, if you believe that it applies to agricultural circles, such an interpretation has no leg to stand on because the circle was NEVER interrupted at anytime prior to the Flood! So, between these two ideas you espouse, there's just no middle ground and we would just have to move beyond and away from these literalism you tend to give that verse. An examination of the principle of sowing and reaping as set forth in Galatians will show that to be so:Gal 6:7-9 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. Yes, I also noted quite well that: viaro: . . so I quite well had those other passages of Galatians and James in mind, and appreciate your quoting them. I just would very much hope that as believers we should not hold too tightly to literalism and limit the applications of certain verses where they might be pointing us to certain PRINCIPLES in the Kingdom of God. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by Joagbaje(m): 5:03pm On Feb 01, 2010 |
There is not supposed to be an issue for debate. We sow money we sow time, service ,smile,love, We live by our seed. But you see God is particular about our attitude to the giving of money. The God of mammon and covetousness will not allow people to give money so they fight it. It is easier to give shoe than give its money equivalent. Sowing and reaping is a law. seed time and harvest. The first thing God gives is a seed ,when we sow ,we then have harvest to live on. Isaiah 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 2 Cor. 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness  |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by ogajim(m): 7:07pm On Feb 01, 2010 |
It's the god of mammon that drives this LUST for money, that's my 2 cents (free) Those who are too hungry for money have never seen money and might not see money on the SCALE they desire, depending on where you are, certain things come with the territory and those "standard" things may be luxuries to folks in other places or circumstance. "FOR THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL, " , "he that have ears, let him hear, " |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by viaro: 7:26pm On Feb 01, 2010 |
ogajim: But who says that the discussion ought to be about lusting after money? |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by ogajim(m): 7:57pm On Feb 01, 2010 |
Joagbaje: |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:59pm On Feb 01, 2010 |
While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease. -- Genesis 8:22
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| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by ogajim(m): 8:16pm On Feb 01, 2010 |
I know we got to save the Planet and all but must we continue this endless recycle of ideas? I happen to believe that money is the least in the scheme of things when the issue of "seed sowing" comes up. Saying that one has to "sow a lot of seed money in order to reap bountifully, " is PLAIN WRONG in my book! This is another attempt in my view to bring Christians to blows over money, I don't buy it! Anyone is also free to follow the way they think brings blessing, I will follow Christ in the ways that has worked for me and really don't need to be bothered by how other folks want to interpret the Word to suit their game. How can I be a friend of Christ who paid the ultimate price for our sakes and be a slave to a man? NO WAY Jose! |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by viaro: 8:26pm On Feb 01, 2010 |
ogajim: I don't know if anyone has said in this thread the very things in your quotation marks. But I happen to think that when Christians fight over money - especially how NOT TO GIVE - the true essence of what it means to follow Christ is lost! Anyone is also free to follow the way they think brings blessing, I will follow Christ in the ways that has worked for me and really don't need to be bothered by how other folks want to interpret the Word to suit their game. That is not freedom but bondage, my brother. If you truly want to know how to be free, let others be - and you face your own life with Christ without looking down on anyone else. How can I be a friend of Christ who paid the ultimate price for our sakes and be a slave to a man? NO WAY Jose! Jesus Christ did not "pay" the ultimate price so you can blab on and on against money. There are many Christians who have no problem with handling money and they know more about following Christ than you and I would ever know. Bro, I think this back and forth quibbling between Christians should be minimised over the issue of money. Yes, there are all sorts of 'pimps' and 'scams' out there - but a topic like this should not necessarily be an opportunity to start yelling silly against this and that. Rather, we should seek ways to talk about positive things - even the positive and very practical ways we can use our material blessings to further the interest of God's Kingdom in the lives of people. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by ogajim(m): 8:48pm On Feb 01, 2010 |
There is an old Yoruba saying " until the rotten tooth is pulled away, the mouth must chew with caution", I pray for forgiveness if any of my posts came off as conceited, not my idea or intention. Every Christian is required to "work out his/her own Salvation with fear and trembling", I am not in any form of bondage and never will but folks can come up with such assumptions if it suits them after all, it's a free Country. I don't lay claim to any " Uber alles" vision on Christianity so my 2 cents is always free. We can EXEMPLIFY our Lord Jesus Christ in the way we LIVE and interact with others more than any form of giving because there are folks that have enough self respect not to take/receive from some folks no matter their level of need if the vibe they see/perceive is not the kind they're comfortable with. There is a HUGE need for unity in the house of God but we also have to make sure it is not the kind of Worldly negotiated unity. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by viaro: 9:26pm On Feb 01, 2010 |
ogajim: ^^That up there seems to be doing very little to achieve unity in the Body of Christ. The thread {"Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time"} calls on CHRISTIANS in an inviting manner to DISCUSS a simple subject: 'The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time'. Without much ado, we can do so and share on many positive aspects of what that might be pointing to, rather than down every mention of 'money' as if Christians go about living on spit! To "interact with others" is meaningless if for the most part we can't do more than mere talk-talk-talk!! (1 John 3:17-18 and James 2:14-17). When we spend most of our time quibbling especially on how NOT TO GIVE 'money', then we find a greater divide than any hope of the 'unity' we hope to offer. Even using nice-sounding words to hide this quibbling is not nearly solving our problems. I think we can look past this back and forth and spend more time discussing positive and practical things about the principle of "sowing and reaping", or 'seedtime and harvest' if you prefer. It ought not be only about money, nor does it rule out money. How we handle our material blessings is a huge part of our Christian lives. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by ogajim(m): 3:58am On Feb 02, 2010 |
Freewill offering and giving is fundamental to our faith, we tend to differ on what form and to some extent to whom. We have clear instructions from Jesus Christ and not some Pastor/GO/DSP/ASP  , Christians are supposed to follow his example unless there's something I am missing here.Matthew 25 : 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. I don't know what obtains in your neck of the woods but I have seen enough to hold the views I currently do and does not HATE anyone for holding something different. Christianity (to me)is not about making deals, it is more about following the footsteps of our Lord Jesus Christ and aspire to be perfect. My first visit to a Pentecostal church happened a long time ago, ich bin keine kinder  |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by Joagbaje(m): 7:33am On Feb 02, 2010 |
sowing and reaping is an eternal law. Jesus taught you can give your jacket, coat ,help,service .etc.but I dont know when it comes to the giving of money, some people will pick up fight or when it come to giving to God in churches. Giving of money will continually be a major part of our seed because money is medium of exchange. Eccles. 10:19 , money answereth all things. If there is anybody that illustrate attitude to money the most it was Jesus. why did he not tell the rich man to giv his goods out? Rather He told the rich man to sell the goods in exchange for money first. tthen give out the money. It is harder to sow cash but Jesus want us to conquer mammon. Annanias sold land but found it difficult to remmitt it. There is a perfection you attain by sowing money. So dont rule out money in the law of sowing and reaping it plays a major role. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by viaro: 8:13am On Feb 02, 2010 |
ogajim: Please! I'm weary of this hypocritical talk, so just zip it. None of you guys ever encourage freewill offering and GIVING - because if it obtains in your books in a PRACTICAL sense, you would not be quibbling over the mention of 'money' in threads where issues like this are discussed! We have long waited to see positive talk from your camp - but the first thing one notices here from you in particular is a negation of 'money'! If there's nothing positive you can contribute in threads like this, please don't even mention 'freewill offering and GIVING' while pussyfooting over financial giving. The thread calls for positive inputs on the principle of sowing and reaping, and if you've got practical encourage about this, then by all means post them. We have clear instructions from Jesus Christ and not some Pastor/GO/DSP/ASP What 'example' are you advancing - the quibbling over the mention of 'money' and tripping over yourself with non-starters? If the term 'pastor' is a hideous word in your Christian vocab, you can find other ways of amusing yourself rather than lump everyone in one senile box! It is Christ Himself that gave 'Pastors' among other gifts to the CHURCH (Ephesians 4:11). If you have one where you fellowship, you can damn him for all I care - but there are many churches that enjoy healthy fellowships with mature pastors authenticating the Word. It was never the 'example' of Christ to be arrogant to leaders He has given to build up the churches, and that is why we have forever waited for positive inputs from you guys and finding none! I don't know what obtains in your neck of the woods but I have seen enough to hold the views I currently do and does not HATE anyone for holding something different. What obtains in my neck of the woods is zero tolerance for attitudes from folks who are disatisfied with their own small cublicles and won't allow others be. You have not seen enough to heal from the polarised views you hold, that is why you can't see practical things about sowing and reaping when it comes to handling material blessings (2 Corinthians 9:6-11). Anytime threads about 'giving' come up, the only thing we tend to read from folks like you is a negation that only tends to desensitised outlook on the subject. Christianity (to me)is not about making deals, it is more about following the footsteps of our Lord Jesus Christ and aspire to be perfect. My first visit to a Pentecostal church happened a long time ago, ich bin keine kinder Who has asked you to be making 'deals' here?  What did you read in this thread to bring in that silly illation? Not all Pentecostal churches are clones of the one you might've visited, so what 'deal' are you seeking to strike here? If you can't have anything more practical to talk about, it could as well almost make one think that Sie sind ein Kind. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by PastorAIO: 10:14am On Feb 02, 2010 |
Joagbaje: @Joagbaje, Do you consider this statement to be true, from your experience of life? |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by PastorAIO: 10:27am On Feb 02, 2010 |
viaro: 2 questions that I want to put to the forum. If I want to give in such a way as to maximize efficiency of my gift who is it better to give to. a) The church, or b) a charity organisation that is set up for precisely the purpose, that is familiar with the ins and outs of delivering aid in it's specific context and that is made up of experts and professionals who can most efficiently utilize your gift. e.g If I want to help the sick children of the world am I better off giving to the church or giving to Medecins San Frontieres. Second question: I totally agree that actions have consequences and that most events themselves are a consequence of previous events which are in turn a consequence of prior events stretching all the way back to . . . (I shall avoid the term 'first cause' otherwise DeepSight will jump in and derail the thread). Apart from articulating this obvious fact which is also exactly what the Law of Karma does, what else is the Law of Seedtime and Harvest time saying? How does the Law of Seedtime Harvest time say that the relationship works? |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by viaro: 10:59am On Feb 02, 2010 |
Hi Pastor AIO, Let me offer simple answers to your questions in view of the concerns of this thread. Pastor AIO: You would notice that my views on these things do not tend to "exclusive divides" (said so in post #14). It is not a question of either this or that between 'better' alternatives, so it's not here a matter of between the church and an organisation. In Scripture there are clear verses pointing particularly to giving in Church, which do not mean that giving through other channels are more or less 'better' or 'efficient'. Apart from articulating this obvious fact which is also exactly what the Law of Karma does, what else is the Law of Seedtime and Harvest time saying? How does the Law of Seedtime Harvest time say that the relationship works? I also noted that this principle is "applied in so many instances to other aspects of our lives and faith"; and although it includes the question of using our resources (financial and material) in the Kingdom, it is not necessarily limited to the examples given thus far. As to how the relationship works, it depends on what exactly the enquirer has in mind. If, for example, it is on the question of using our material resources to reach out to people in the Body of Christ, the relationship works on the basis of 2 Corinthians 8:14 - 'that there may be equality', where our resources help to better the circumstances of believers in the Body of Christ. |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by aletheia(m): 11:36am On Feb 02, 2010 |
viaro: I think you are being harsh here. You really can't say none of us ever encourages freewill offering and GIVING when you haven't interacted with us on a personal level. Like I said earlier, we are probably saying the same thing but through the prism of our experiences. Sowing and reaping is a principle mentioned in the bible: Gal 6:7-8 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Gal 5:19-23 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.And as you can see from the scripture above, it pertains to eternal things. No doubt sowing to the flesh includes our attitudes to money but unfortunately, we find that quite a lot of people reduce that principle to money: Joagbaje:^^^So perfection is attained by sowing money. So much for the finished work of Jesus. A number of us have been in situations where all we hear about is money, money and more money being preached as the gospel of Jesus, and one of the proof texts used to justify this is "seedtime and harvest" but we know Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.And Luk 12:15 And he said to them, "Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." |
| Re: Christians Lets Discuss - The Law Of Seedtime And Harvest Time by viaro: 12:33pm On Feb 02, 2010 |
aletheia:I was (but not to you) - and that's because I actually have very little stomach for doublespeak especially among Christians. What was all the unnecessary illations he was drawing in here as if that is what this thread was about? You really can't say none of us ever encourages freewill offering and GIVING when you haven't interacted with us on a personal level.I should not have generalised, although I'm no stranger to the poster I was addressing. I don't see how such folks have actually encouraged that same GIVING without freaking and flipping over at any slight mention of 'money'. True, I have not interacted with you on a personal level, but at least you and I have come to a common agreement that we might be saying just about the same things. Sowing and reaping is a principle mentioned in the bible: And as you can see from the scripture above, it pertains to eternal things. No worries, I understand that. No doubt sowing to the flesh includes our attitudes to money but unfortunately, we find that quite a lot of people reduce that principle to money: I don't know about that, because the churches I've had the privilege of visiting as well pastors who I've listened to, do not 'reduce that principle to money'. The fact is that many people who just rule out any mention of 'money' are the ones who tend to make it sound like everything they ever come across on this principle is about that same thing, 'money'. ^^^So perfection is attained by sowing money. So much for the finished work of Jesus.I don't think he said that - read again: "a perfection you attain" does not mean the same thing as 'all perfection'; nor does he mean by that to say that the finished work of Christ is not perfect and must needs be based on money talks. This is one thing that worries me - people drawing unnecessary conclusions where they ought not to. Rather, he said: 'So dont rule out money in the law of sowing and reaping it plays a major role.' A number of us have been in situations where all we hear about is money, money and more money being preached as the gospel of Jesus, and one of the proof texts used to justify this is "seedtime and harvest" but we know And I have been in places where people have preached more about money than anything else - but that does not mean that all we know should be rested upon those kinds of experiences. Fortunately for me, I have also been in fellowships where a healthy balance about money matters is taught, and this would be an opportunity to discuss healthy matters than tip the discussion to the down side. Just because some people tend to be covetous does not mean that we completely rule out the important aspect of financial matters in the principle of sowing and reaping. |
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