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| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by zeestone99(m): 12:09am On May 18, 2016 |
mank1234: 1) 2 12v200ah batteries ll giv u near 12hrs, use a 24v inverter alongside it 2) four is ok 3) 60amps is gud, so incase u increase panel in future, u dnt v to wori abt charge controller |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by temizeee(m): 8:09am On May 18, 2016 |
zeestone99:oga zeestone99 2 batteries won't last dat long it better u tell d truth,come on u didn't even consider DOD na....n d solar panel... Hmnn 1020watt total of solar panel? It's not enough.Hw many hrs of sunlight? 20? mppt cc is okay..... 3 Likes |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bigrovar(m): 8:33am On May 18, 2016 |
mank1234: 400w * 12 = 4,800 / 0.90 (inverter efficiency) = 5,333w Lets assume your are running this on a 12v system 5,333/12 = 444ah so in a day your take 444ah from your battery bank. In other to maintain a 50% depth of discharge (which would ensure your batteries are at between 500 circles (1.5 years) up to 1800 circles ( about 5 years) depending on type of battery use use. Hence a battery bank of 800ah = 4 12v 200ah batteries (In parallel) would put u within a safe zone of 56% dod. You will also be operating below the discharge rate of a C20 battery since your the battery discharge rate would be close to 37ah / hour. Number of batteries required is 4 12v 200ah batteries (for a 12v system) Regarding charge controller. and number of PV. The important rule is. You most be able to generate what you use with some room for raining days. your daily watt use is 5,333w PV= your daily use is 5333w (lets says 5400w) It is good to factor in PV efficiencies and heat related losses into the system hence I would recommend you get 6 250watt panels in series parallel connection this would give u a total of 1500w / 12 = 125ah * 0.77 (rule of thumb for the combined real world panel plus controller efficiency loss) = 96ah 96 * 5 (average number of sun hours in Nigeria ) = 480ah (sometimes u get more, sometimes a bit less) either way that is above 444ah daily requirement so you have 480w for redundancy. number of PV = 250w * 6 (this would guarantee your give back what you take from the system) Charge controller which u need to get this would be a 100a mppt controller. As you can see from the above. the system u have here would be quite expensive to put together. The first thing you do when planning for alternative energy is to trim down your system to make it more efficient. With some adjustments, that 400w concurrent usage for 12 hours can be reduced. Also how did you come about the figure? did you use a watt meter? I am still a padawan when it comes to this whole solar thingie. I am sure some Jedi masters in the house would chip in to add to the conversation. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by zeestone99(m): 9:12am On May 18, 2016 |
bigrovar: Bro datz y I said near 12hrs, anoda tin to consider is he powering jst 400watt of load, by d time u bombard all dis figure to power jst 400watt. e get as e b o 1) I said 4 is OK, nd i agree if u say 6 panels dat means faster charging. 100amps charge controller is nt necessary, using a 12v inverter system, u r paralleling too much ( 4 batteries) and dat is y u re suggestin 100amps 2) you can't use 250watt panel wit a 12v inverter system because 250watt comes with 24v by default. Using a 24v inverter is perfect. 3) 4 batteries is on d high side, who ll fund all this tin you are sayin because of 400watt of load. Afterall there is solar to bk it up 1 Like |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DMerciful(m): 9:34am On May 18, 2016 |
You are very pragmatic! Truth is why will someone who's inclining towards alternative energy consume 400w in d night? My load is highly reduced in the night to about 40-50w! Use rechargeable fans that consumes less. You can power ur freezer in the day and d cooling will last even for 2 days. 2*200AH batteries is enuf just invest more on the number of solar panels which is a cheaper n durable option and power most of ur loads during d day like fridge n freezers and seriously conserve energy at night when d sun is out. zeestone99: 2 Likes |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by temizeee(m): 10:22am On May 18, 2016 |
Guys hold on, If someone call you to install solar system, d approximate load is 400watt, to b powered for 12hrs daily.... N somehow you go ahead and use just 2 batteries;the battery may perform excellently for a while after mayb a year i sweardown dia will b a great decrease in power backup.... Nigerian don't know how to manage loads especially those that don't have full knowledge of renewable energy... They always think its like gen. Some clients allow battery to get discharged until battery get low... D battery life won't last if it keeps occurring, that's y DOD is always important especially if you are installing for someone... So u won't get a bad impression...... But if it's a diy person.. I tell u,you will always manage d load 2 batteries may still work.... I uses 8*9watt bulb in my house equivalent to 72 watts.... Someone who doesn't av full knowledge of saving energy might go for 40watt cfl or less... 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bigrovar(m): 10:37am On May 18, 2016 |
[quote author=zeestone99 post=45728888]I agree. the most efficient system for him would be a 24v system. that way the batteries can be arranged in series parallel. even then the average consumption of 400w for 12 hours with a 24v system with 90% efficiency is 223AH. That is how much AH he would use everyday. To keep is batteries at the recommended 50% depth of discharge he would still need 4 12v, 200ah batteries arranged in series parallel. and yes making the system 24v would actually allow him to use a 60a cc which would actually be putting out about 48a in real world use considering PV efficiency and heat related losses at 0.77%. 2) you can't use 250watt panel wit a 12v inverter system because 250watt comes with 24v by default.You can actually, in fact it is what is recommended as long as you are using it with an mppt charge controller. MPPT once it note the voltage of the PV is higher than the battery voltage would downgrade the PV to 12v and excess voltage is then converted to currents. In my case I connected the two 24v panel in series to over come resistance and allow me to spend less on wiring. Using a 24v inverter is perfect.We agree 3) 4 batteries is on d high side, who ll fund all this tin you are sayin because of 400watt of load. Afterall there is solar to bk it upUnless you want to discharge completely discharge the batteries. 4 12v 200ah battery (connected in series parallel) for a system that uses 222ah daily is the minimum if you don't want the batteries dying in less than a year. Unless am mistaken. Remember it is 400w for 12 hours. alternative energy is not cheap. That is why more time should be spent making the consumption more efficient so that you spend less money 3 Likes |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Barezzi(m): 7:17pm On May 18, 2016 |
Spot on! 10 litres of fuel for you  |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by sensisosu: 7:32pm On May 18, 2016 |
Hello House, I should have found this thread earlier, maybe my life would have been easier by now... I have a 3.5kva sukham inverter with 4 tubular batteries which aren't giving me as much satisfaction that i want. I decided to complement my system by purchasing 6 panels of 250 watts mono solar panels and epever 60amps charge controller. What i noticed today was that PHCN decided to give us electricity for 4 hours today from 8am to 12pm and my batteries were fully charged at 57volt. as of this moment which is 7 hours later, my battery voltage is at 49volt and the charge controller is showing that the battery % is at 15%. Please this is completely new to me and I would appreciate if anyone could enlighten me about the system, what are the problems and what should be the solutions. Thank you |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by mank1234(m): 8:03pm On May 18, 2016 |
400W is assumed average for the following load: water pump for 1hr (1hp), iron for max of 20min (1.5kW), fridge (150W) TV (120W), lighting - energy saving bulb ( 100W), Fan (75W); all appliances won't obviously be on at the same time. My average monthly energy consumption is 120kWH. I've saved your template for the calculation. It's very useful. From your analysis, I can infer that a 50-60A charge controller will be adequate for a 24v system. Thanks so much. Remain blessed. bigrovar: |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by sensisosu: 8:19pm On May 18, 2016 |
STILL WAITING FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS sensisosu: |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by mank1234(m): 8:21pm On May 18, 2016 |
If your charge controller is not using a volt sense wire, the reading could be wrong: restart the charge controller. The charge controller voltage sensing circuit might be bad: use meter and measure the battery voltage externally. If one of the batteries is dead, it can pull down the others as soon as charging source is removed: check if there's a bulge on the side of any cell. Lightening causes high current/voltage to flow from panel through charge controller; so if there's no surge arrester, it could damage the internal circuitry of the charge controller: most controllers can only handle a max of 150V. sensisosu: |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bigrovar(m): 8:35pm On May 18, 2016 |
sensisosu:There are so many things missing from your post. Reweable energy is called alternative power for a purpose. The very idea is understanding and making efficient your usage of power. You need to be aware of your loads. And design your system to power your needs not your wants. Also and most importantly list all the items powered by your setup and how many hours they run. Then gurus in the house can help. |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by uyogabie(f): 9:24pm On May 18, 2016 |
My mercury 2.4kva inverter is very hot. |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by sensisosu: 9:26pm On May 18, 2016 |
mank1234: The solar system was installed yesterday, although i am yet to restart my charge controller, i will do that tommorow to be sure that the reading is accurate. My batteries are pretty new and i got around an average of 14.3v from each batteries today. I am not sure what you mean by checking the bulge on the side of any cell.. by the way, I am using mppt charge controller. |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by sensisosu: 9:34pm On May 18, 2016 |
bigrovar: Thank you for your input, The items powered on are 1 tv, 3 fans, charging ports for 2 laptops, 6 energy saving bulbs. I believe with the system i have, i should be able to enjoy electricity 24hrs a day. Please enlighten me. |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by mank1234(m): 10:02pm On May 18, 2016 |
OK. If that's the case the only explanation for any difference between actual voltage and what the controller displays is likely absence of a sense wire. There's voltage drop on the wire for charging the battery; it's normal and not a bad thing. The only downside is that the charging might not be so accurate without a sense wire: this is usually an thinner wire from the battery terminal to the charge controller strictly for monitoring battery voltage. No current flow through it and hence no voltage drop. sensisosu: |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by sensisosu: 10:53pm On May 18, 2016 |
mank1234: So how do I rectify this problem.. By the way my charge rate today was averagely 10.09A which is considered normal, I was wondering shouldn't it be more than that since I am using an mppt charge controller which should charge faster than the pwm charge controllers |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by zeestone99(m): 11:18pm On May 18, 2016 |
sensisosu: Sometimes I just tink mppt is overated. Jst sayin 1 Like |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by zeestone99(m): 11:21pm On May 18, 2016 |
[quote author=bigrovar post=45731582][/quote] Yes u right, didn't tk d mppt into consideration, 24v can b reduced to 12v by d controller |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Nobody: 7:07am On May 19, 2016 |
zeestone99: THINK SO TOO,BECOS WITH MY PMW CC OF 12V 30A, I GET AVERAGE OF 13.8A WITH MY 2*130W SOLAR PANELS IN PARALLEL TO A BATTERY OF 12V 200AH.ONE LOVE.GREEN FOR LIFE. |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bigrovar(m): 7:27am On May 19, 2016 |
sensisosu:negative. sensisosu: first u have to understand your system that is the best approach, understanding will let u know if and where the problem is. from what you listed. here is the potential generation of your panel. Inverter 48v Battery bank 4 12v 220ah (Batteries) in series = 220ah 6*250 (Panels) = MPPT potential output = 31.25 real life = (31.25*0.77) output due to inefficiencies and losses = 24ah 24ah is the highest power point your system can give on an average. (considering that the panels are installed facing true south with a tilt of about 81 degree and have no shading from trees or nepa poles) 49v is not bad. I think you are confusing state of charge with state of discharge. former is how empty, later is how full. 15% state of charge means 15% empty or 85% full (house jedi can correct me on this) IIRC most charge controllers display state of charge (SOC) in any case 49v represent about 80ish% state of charge, that means your battery is 80ish % full which is good. I have attached a voltage - state of charge chart. remember your system is a 48v system. what is the distance between panels and controller and size of wires used. sensisosu: what type of TV, Plasma, LCD or LED and year (it matters energy consumptions between tv display tech varies from 250w to 30w on same display) 3 fan (ceiling or standing) laptop generally use 65w when charging battery, once battery is charged it drops to around 20w. so u multiply that by number of laptop and number of hours u run the laptop. What is the rating on the energy saving bulb? 20w? You really need to sit down and calculate your load. Try to estimate them as much as possible. In any case, your system us not enough to grant u 24 hours light. Your battery is 220ah. all the above listed items even in their most efficiency will not grant u 24hr light. maybe 10 hours. and even that might put a strain on your battery and drain it beyond the sacred 70% dod 1 Like
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| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by kiekie1(m): 8:20am On May 19, 2016 |
kiekie1:
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| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bigrovar(m): 9:22am On May 19, 2016 |
kiekie1: All that for 30k? Pictures place |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by JohnKester: 10:15am On May 19, 2016 |
sensisosu: For smaller systems like yours (not in term of voltage, but in terms of the panel array as well as the battery bank), a PWM controller would actually be more effective. However, having an MPPT charge controller now is good as you will not need to change it when eventually you expand your system to handle more panels. You only derive all the advantages of MPPT Charge controllers with larger systems even at the same 48V system as yours. Regarding the discrepancies in the voltage displayed by your charge controller and the percentage of power left in the batteries, you need to check the manual that came with the charge controller to ascertain whether what is displayed in percentage is POWER CONSUMED or POWER IN BATTERY BANK. On the other hand, it is an established fact that charge controllers and inverters are never accurate with their displayed parameters of state of charge because they are not designed to be accurate and also because they are designed to handle different types and chemistry of batteries, which do not charge and discharge at the same level. As a matter of fact, 49V state of charge in a 48V system is not low at all. Like you said, the system you have should actually keep you going for longer than the seven hours as your load is not very heavy. You can also maximise the performance by ensuring that you run such loads as water pump and electric iron etc only in the afternoon when the sun is up. If you want to get an accurate display of your exact state of charge, you will need to install another meter called Trimetric 2030C made by Bogart Engineering. Pending when you install the Trimetric, if your tubular batteries are open flooded lead acid batteries, then you can actually use a hydrometer to measure specific gravity of the cells of the batteries as an alternative very accurate means of determining the actual state of charge of the batteries. It would also enable you to determine if you have a bad or failing battery in your bank as the specific gravity of the cells of the failing battery would be significantly lower than the other cells. On the charge rate, the wiring can be a very significant factor. For my MS TS-MPPT-60A, the optimal connection of panels is 3 in series and then parallel them depending on the number of panels you have, which in your case, would be 2 parallels (if you have six 250W panels). This I know out of experience, apart from the fact that I used a simulation tool in the Morningstar website to determine the optimal connection. However, what you are able to harvest will always depend on the number and capacity of panels you have, the actual sunlight and the duration of the sunny period in a day. Cheers. 1 Like |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by kiekie1(m): 10:16am On May 19, 2016 |
bigrovar: Yes I posted pictures 2 pages back... Thanks
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| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by codeME: 11:20am On May 19, 2016 |
Gennextech: Let some gurus in the house help us review this from their wealth of experience, an inverter with charger controller, how durable can this be? honestly i really needed the review. Thanks |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by sensisosu: 12:58pm On May 19, 2016 |
@johnkester @bigvolar Thank you for the analysis, Life is all about learning and I am glad i have been able to learn a few things with your analysis. The reason why I have not been able to fully ascertain the system completely is because PHCN has been very kind towards us and as such I am unable to know the strength of the system. What I have decided to do is to put switched to solar 100% and see how long I will be able to use the system based on my normal load. What I also noticed is my mppt epever 60ah charger does not go above 10.05a. I believe i should be able to get atleast 20a with it.. Please could there be anything wrong with the charge controller? by the way, where can i buy the Trimetric 2030C to monitor my batteries. |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by JohnKester: 1:44pm On May 19, 2016 |
sensisosu: You need to ascertain first of all that your solar panels are wired in the series that they will give optimal performance. And that all the conditions that bigrovar gave are met regarding the positioning and direction of the solar panels before you proceed to troubleshooting the charge controller. Installation generally is very important since if you have all the right equipment and get an incompetent installer to install the system, the system will perform as installed - poorly. So ensure first of all that the installation was properly done. Contact Kiekie1, he can source the Trimetric for you. Cheers. 1 Like |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bigrovar(m): 2:10pm On May 19, 2016 |
sensisosu: well technically..... not really. You see MPPT tracks your battery voltage level and decides the optimum level of charge required for that voltage. If your battery is well charged and voltage level is high you might be getting less than the potential output of your panel and charge controller. Ideally your seup should give u about 31.25ah (total PV power 1500w divided by battery voltage 48).. however efficiency losses due to heat, wiring position of the sun etc means u never get up to 31.ah, the rule of thump apply 77% efficiency to your installation hence 31.25 * 0.77 = 24.0625ah. that is what u would get from your PV. if your battery voltage is at 48v. however battery voltage never stays at 48. it is sometimes higher maybe 50v or 49 which would reduce the number of current u get from cc. Only time u might see close to 20ah is if battery is severely discharged in that or as my Jedi master @Abunafiu suggest when load is applied on the battery during day time. So I feel your cc is fine. External factors can also not be ruled out. |
| Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by xreakz(m): 7:51pm On May 19, 2016 |
Hello gurus, what solar inverter brand would you advice one to get. I am looking to upgrade my current battery-only setup to a solar + battery + AC setup. Thanks in advance 1 Like |
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