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Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA - Satellite TV Technology (267) - Nairaland

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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Refa: 5:37am On Jun 29
I am sure the digital displays alone will not suffice to help give you a good explanation. Not knowing your Inverter capacity, type of inverter, whether it has it always been like this or this is a recent occurrence? So many factors can be contributing to this issue; size of cables, fans going bad, location of inverter, even the monitoring devices could be contributing. I am just covering all basis I can think of in this situation, since I don't know anything about the setup.

I have attached an efficiency curve for Xantrex XW4548/6048/4024 just to bring clarity to some of the concerns I have raised.

These inverters are all rated above 92%+ efficient, albeit, you notice that when the load is less than 300W, the efficiency suffers drastically; If a big inverter (3000W+) is used for a small load (300W), the efficiency of inverter is not going to 92%

These inverters are from the same manufacturer (Yes Xantrex, now owned by Schneider), the efficiencies vary differently with respect to varying load. The XW4024 commences an efficiency degradation after 1000W, while the others are still doing very well. [b][/b]ALL INVERTERS ARE NOT MADE EQUAL.

Location of an inverter is also key; All inverters use switching devices and AC inductors of some sort. These devices generate a fair amount of heat hence the need for the cooling fans. An inverter located in a functioning kitchen is not going to out perform one that is located in a place with lots of cool breeze. Likewise an inverter that is located in area granting access to the fans to draw in a lot of dust, so that the electrical components are coated with thick layers of dust inhibiting proper cooling.An inverter like this is not going to out perform one that is carefully placed. Big names SMA, Xantrex, Outback etc use filters at the vents for the fans to filter out air.

Cable sizing; For simplification, lets do some basic math; Resistance R to the flow of Electricity is proportional to the Length L of the wire and inversely proportional to the Cross-sectional Area A

R = K (L)/(A), K is resistivity- material dependent. In order to keep resistance low, an appropriate diameter must be chosen to correspond to the length and current that is flowing through the wire. Else part of the power consumed is lost to heat in the wire. This could also potentially damage the wire-for this reason fuses and breakers are sized based on the connected wires (See attached sheet).
Power loss to heat;
P=I[sup][/sup]2R

Monitoring devices; Not all measuring devices do the job with the same degree of accuracy. For solar applications, this may not be an issue at all; the monitoring devices we use may not be accurate by standards in some industries, but they give us the requisite information with a degree of accuracy, satisfactory enough to tell us we are in trouble or not. But, when two different devices (from different manufacturers) are being used to take measurements, the difference in measuring and calibration methods may contribute a little bit for us to be alarmed. You may want to use the same device in taking all your measurements.

Some of the points above are insignificant, but I thought it is worth mentioning if all contributing factors are to be considered.



efuro:
Hello House
My inverter waste much of my precious battery power.

It’s my belief that DC watt is 92% of AC watt and current stays same whether DC or AC.
Can someone help with explanation why my inverter draws so much juice just to produce so little. For instance, it draws 11.60A@307W DC to produce 1.47A@247W AC to power load (of a Deep Freezer, 32” LCD + 2 Decoders, Newclime Ceiling Fan).
See readings at 8.59AM this morning.
For the time being, I installed DC watt meter at output of my Battery Bank and another just before my CC to read-off harvest directly. While AC watt meter to monitor my AC loads.

An experienced explanation will do my nerves good.
Thanks
(Meanwhile, my inverter idle state is just 27.7w and has good surge allowance when fridge and freezer compressor kicks.)

3 Likes

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by tivta(m): 9:04am On Jun 29
Refa:
I am sure the digital displays alone will not suffice to help give you a good explanation. Not knowing your Inverter capacity, type of inverter, whether it has it always been like this or this is a recent occurrence? So many factors can be contributing to this issue; size of cables, fans going bad, location of inverter, even the monitoring devices could be contributing. I am just covering all basis I can think of in this situation, since I don't know anything about the setup.

I have attached an efficiency curve for Xantrex XW4548/6048/4024 just to bring clarity to some of the concerns I have raised.

These inverters are all rated above 92%+ efficient, albeit, you notice that when the load is less than 300W, the efficiency suffers drastically; If a big inverter (3000W+) is used for a small load (300W), the efficiency of inverter is not going to 92%

These inverters are from the same manufacturer (Yes Xantrex, now owned by Schneider), the efficiencies vary differently with respect to varying load. The XW4024 commences an efficiency degradation after 1000W, while the others are still doing very well. [b][/b]ALL INVERTERS ARE NOT MADE EQUAL.

Location of an inverter is also key; All inverters use switching devices and AC inductors of some sort. These devices generate a fair amount of heat hence the need for the cooling fans. An inverter located in a functioning kitchen is not going to out perform one that is located in a place with lots of cool breeze. Likewise an inverter that is located in area granting access to the fans to draw in a lot of dust, so that the electrical components are coated with thick layers of dust inhibiting proper cooling.An inverter like this is not going to out perform one that is carefully placed. Big names SMA, Xantrex, Outback etc use filters at the vents for the fans to filter out air.

Cable sizing; For simplification, lets do some basic math; Resistance R to the flow of Electricity is proportional to the Length L of the wire and inversely proportional to the Cross-sectional Area A

R = K (L)/(A), K is resistivity- material dependent. In order to keep resistance low, an appropriate diameter must be chosen to correspond to the length and current that is flowing through the wire. Else part of the power consumed is lost to heat in the wire. This could also potentially damage the wire-for this reason fuses and breakers are sized based on the connected wires (See attached sheet).
Power loss to heat;
P=I[sup][/sup]2R

Monitoring devices; Not all measuring devices do the job with the same degree of accuracy. For solar applications, this may not be an issue at all; the monitoring devices we use may not be accurate by standards in some industries, but they give us the requisite information with a degree of accuracy, satisfactory enough to tell us we are in trouble or not. But, when two different devices (from different manufacturers) are being used to take measurements, the difference in measuring and calibration methods may contribute a little bit for us to be alarmed. You may want to use the same device in taking all your measurements.

Some of the points above are insignificant, but I thought it is worth mentioning if all contributing factors are to be considered.




Nice explanation BUT not all inverters use fan for cooling, there buy reducing extra load.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by BRIGHTSOLAR(m): 10:25am On Jun 29
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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by trewbless(m): 11:06am On Jun 29
trewbless:

Thank you very much am satisfied with ur explanation, good work.
My brother let me ask u a question again, if for instance am having a 2400watts in my battery that take a whole 10hrs to charge at 100%, and I have a gadget that consumed 250watts ,which means I cannot be having 24/7 light knowing fully well solar cannot charge my battery 24hrs. Pls explain this to me thanks.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by earthrealm(m): 11:58am On Jun 29
surrogatesng:
I intend setting up a stand alone solar powered freezer at home which will run on an inverter,battery and solar panel (off grid)

I will like the freezer to run at least minimum of 6-7 hrs daily to keep food fresh

I will prefer a small chest freezer of 100 litres or lesser (chest freezer only)

I will like a small chest freezer with a rated power consumption of 60 watts

What kind of inverter will be best for it 500 watts,1kv or higher,pure sinewave or modified

I have attached a picture of the freezer i will like below.The kind i want,even a smaller one will be nice as long as it meets with my specs.

Can i get a small chest freezer of such capacity?

Please advice

yup, such freezers exist, chk lg/thermoccol and scanfrost .
wud recommend a 1kva inverter.
search for beko freezers on jumia/konga if u want super efficient one..maybe as low as 30/40watts for that size

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by efuro(m): 2:38pm On Jun 29
Obascoetubi:
which inverter?

bigbrovar:

Name of your inverter. From what you have posted it seem your inverter uses between 100w / 110w for idle load which is very high but not unexpected with some inverters
Saipro:


I think the difference could be accounted for by the energy consumption of the inverter itself. It is an electrical appliance and will consume energy to drive its energy conversion circuitry, mostly via losses.

Thanks All

It has been bad trying to post here in the last few days
particularly if you don't copy remarks before posting them.


the inverter is Microtek 1,600w (2KVa).

In addition to your views above. do you think DC Amps drawn by the inverter is same as
AC Amps irrespective of the waste due to conversion?
I know DC watts is not = to AC watts

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by earthrealm(m): 2:52pm On Jun 29
nope dc amps is not equal to ac amps..

for example a 220v ac freezer that consumes 1amp will draw about 24amps from a 12v batt system, 11amps from a 24v batt system etc
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Refa: 3:02pm On Jun 29
Thanks Tivta, you are right, some off gird inverters do not use fans. These are either very small inverters which do not incorporate a charger or are going to be prohibitively expensive. Also most micro inverters and DC optimizers (these are grid tied, not very useful in a blackout scenario) do not use fans. Our load requirements and climatic conditions will necessitate the use of fanned inverters
tivta:


Nice explanation BUT not all inverters use fan for cooling, there buy reducing extra load.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by efuro(m): 4:36pm On Jun 29
@ Refa

Thank you so much for a detailed
insight to inverters and their working conditions,

well I will keep studying the inverter and keep the house informed for the benefit of some with similar
inverters

Thanks again wink
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bigrovar(m): 8:21pm On Jun 29
efuro:




Thanks All

It has been bad trying to post here in the last few days
particularly if you don't copy remarks before posting them.


the inverter is Microtek 1,600w (2KVa).

In addition to your views above. do you think DC Amps drawn by the inverter is same as
AC Amps irrespective of the waste due to conversion?
I know DC watts is not = to AC watts


Watt is watt irrespective of whether dc or AC. The fundamentals of power doesn't change. Amps x volt will always be equal to watts just that with AC you have higher voltage than amps. While reverse is with DC. Inverters just convert from DC to AC but in doing so some energy is lost to heat.. This is what is called inverter efficiency. The higher the efficiency the lower the loss. Efficiency of inverters is usually represented by percentage in must inverters. Mine is 85% efficient meaning only 85% of DC power taking from battery is converted to AC %15 is lost to heat (when it running at full capacity) . If u have a watt meter. You can determine how much the inverter uses to run which is called idle load. I found mine uses 50w just when running without any loaf attached. From what you have posted it seems your inverter itself is using close to 100w just to run. This might explain the missing watts you noted.

8 Likes

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by mcTrinity(m): 11:39pm On Jun 29
Refa:
The 20hr or 10hr just means that it is discharged to 1.75V per cell over a period of 20 hours or 10 hours while the total amp hour supplied is measured. But this does not mean a 20hour rated battery is necessarily better than a 10hour rated battery.

Example; Rolls Surrette S-605 L16 Battery is rated at 100hr for 605AH, 20 hr at 468AH and at 10hr for 398AH. Note that this the same battery, the only thing that changed here is the load that was used to discharge the battery.

So the numbers can make a battery look better if a 100 hr rating is given for a particular battery.

Because of the Peukert effect, batteries turn to deliver more AH if they are discharged slowly (low amperage draw) and lower AH if discharged fast (High average draw). So a 200AH at 10hr, may be better than a 200AH at 20hr.



thanks for your explanation...
my major concern was whether the two can be paralleled together: got 4 batteries (200Ah @20hr) I installed for a client (for 48v system). 2weeks later, I got another 4 batteries of same brand but 200Ah @10hr.
But I've paralleled the two banks. hopefully, there won't be discrepancy due to different hour rating
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by mcTrinity(m): 11:53pm On Jun 29
efuro:




Thanks All

It has been bad trying to post here in the last few days
particularly if you don't copy remarks before posting them.


the inverter is Microtek 1,600w (2KVa).

In addition to your views above. do you think DC Amps drawn by the inverter is same as
AC Amps irrespective of the waste due to conversion?
I know DC watts is not = to AC watts


if you have 500w load on a 24v inverter system, it will draw 2.2A from the AC side
P=I/V
I=P/V = 500/230 = 2.17A

but from the DC side, it will draw 21A
500/24 = 20.8A

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed but can be changed from one form to another. power on AC side is equal to power on DC side (assuming perfect system without loses). The only parameters that varies are current and voltage

3 Likes

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by efuro(m): 6:53am On Jun 30
mcTrinity:


if you have 500w load on a 24v inverter system, it will draw 2.2A from the AC side
P=I/V
I=P/V = 500/230 = 2.17A

but from the DC side, it will draw 21A
500/24 = 20.8A

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed but can be changed from one form to another. power on AC side is equal to power on DC side (assuming perfect system without loses). The only parameters that varies are current and voltage

am guided by ur principle above.
very straight forward.
it is appreciated.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by zeestone99(m): 10:35am On Jun 30
surrogatesng:
I intend setting up a stand alone solar powered freezer at home which will run on an inverter,battery and solar panel (off grid)

I will like the freezer to run at least minimum of 6-7 hrs daily to keep food fresh

I will prefer a small chest freezer of 100 litres or lesser (chest freezer only)

I will like a small chest freezer with a rated power consumption of 60 watts

What kind of inverter will be best for it 500 watts,1kv or higher,pure sinewave or modified

I have attached a picture of the freezer i will like below.The kind i want,even a smaller one will be nice as long as it meets with my specs.

Can i get a small chest freezer of such capacity?

Please advice

You can get this standalone 100litres solar DC freezer from us. All u need is to get a battery, panel n cc u r gud 2 go, call/whatapp 08117398294 for more info, you can as well mail us on Info@monzpowersolutions.com

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by surrogatesng: 9:53pm On Jun 30
zeestone99:


You can get this standalone 100litres solar DC freezer from us. All u need is to get a battery, panel n cc u r gud 2 go, call/whatapp 08117398294 for more info, you can as well mail us on Info@monzpowersolutions.com
I called and you said its not in stock now
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by tomi01(m): 11:56pm On Jun 30
Hello all, I'm in need of fairly used 200ah battery urgently .. location - Ile Ife Osun State.

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by dicksonadams(m): 4:41am On Jul 01
tomi01:
Hello all, I'm in need of fairly used 200ah battery urgently .. location - Ile Ife Osun State.

Think it is better you close eye and buy a new battery, fairly use is no good in the short run. My advice based on experience,

No seller will ever tell you the true condition

2 Likes

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by zeestone99(m): 5:19am On Jul 01
surrogatesng:

I called and you said its not in stock now

No longer in stock, 200 litres available limited quantity. Order urs nw
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Juokorow(m): 6:17am On Jul 01
kiekie1:


Hello, in addition to your pics , I believe this dimensions below can be of lucid help ;

Thanks. Immensely helpful!

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by kiekie1: 12:35pm On Jul 01
tomi01:
Hello all, I'm in need of fairly used 200ah battery urgently .. location - Ile Ife Osun State.

Hello , i should have 1 remaining in stock for now .. Simply call 081-350-319-51 . Cheers!
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Saipro(m): 2:33pm On Jul 01
chris81964:
The batteries in the video are not mine. However we will be doing an upgrade in a month. I will put them up for sale

Still waiting to see if you're selling else I'll have to sell mine.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by chris81964(m): 4:10pm On Jul 01
Saipro:


Still waiting to see if you're selling else I'll have to sell mine.
Lets talk
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bodeface: 7:34am On Jul 02
Hello SMEs

Happy Sunday to everyone.

I am planning on installing 6 numbers of 310W solar panels with 60A, 150V Schneider XW 60 MPPT CC, this is a phased Installation, the short circuit current of the PV is about 9A, while the max operating current is about 8.2A, the VOC is 42V and the max operating voltage is about 36V. The battery bank and Inverter operating voltage is 24V (already existing)

I just want opinion from the SME on the best combination for better efficiency, from the look of things this could be 2 arrays (2 X 3PVs In series) or 3 arrays of (3 X 2PVs in series).

Which do you think will be of better efficiency, appreciate all comments
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by kiekie1: 8:15am On Jul 02
bodeface:
Hello SMEs

Happy Sunday to everyone.

I am planning on installing 6 numbers of 310W solar panels with 60A, 150V Schneider XW 60 MPPT CC, this is a phased Installation, the short circuit current of the PV is about 9A, while the max operating current is about 8.2A, the VOC is 42V and the max operating voltage is about 36V. The battery bank and Inverter operating voltage is 24V (already existing)

I just want opinion from the SME on the best combination for better efficiency, from the look of things this could be 2 arrays (2 X 3PVs In series) or 3 arrays of (3 X 2PVs in series).

Which do you think will be of better efficiency, appreciate all comments

You stated you had an existing 24v inverter system , simply go for 2×2 PV module configuration (3×2pv in series).. The other is most suitable for a 48v operating system.. You didnt state DC breaker amps , pro solar roof mount kit etc, contact me for accessories if interested .. Happy Sunday- Cheers !
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Dam5reey(m): 8:21am On Jul 02
bodeface:
Hello SMEs

Happy Sunday to everyone.

I am planning on installing 6 numbers of 310W solar panels with 60A, 150V Schneider XW 60 MPPT CC, this is a phased Installation, the short circuit current of the PV is about 9A, while the max operating current is about 8.2A, the VOC is 42V and the max operating voltage is about 36V. The battery bank and Inverter operating voltage is 24V (already existing)

I just want opinion from the SME on the best combination for better efficiency, from the look of things this could be 2 arrays (2 X 3PVs In series) or 3 arrays of (3 X 2PVs in series).

Which do you think will be of better efficiency, appreciate all comments

First option, Higher Voltage with lower current... Make better Cable efficiency

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by chris81964(m): 8:34am On Jul 02
We had a good first half and look forward to an even better 2nd half. The team at AWPS Renewable Energy, LTD, thank you all for your support, patronage and kind words.

InStrat Global Health Solutions, Ltd., Africa’s leading implementer of turnkey mobile health solutions and AWPS Renewable Energy, Ltd., Nigeria’s #1 provider of premium quality solar power, have signed a historic contract for AWPS Renewable Energy to provide solar power to 21 urban and rural heath centers in Abuja and Kano Nigeria.

InStrat Global Health Solutions, Ltd’s technology, allows clients to implement heath care delivery in low resource settings. AWPS Renewable Energy, Ltd., will provide high quality, reliable and cost effective solar power to InStrat Global Health Solutions, Ltd., client centers for high speed satellite internet in 18 centers, in Kano and 2 in Abuja.

The contract was signed by AWPS Renewable Energy, Ltd., President, Mr. Christopher “Dr. Solar” Onwuasoanya and the founder and CEO of InStrat Global Health Solutions, Ltd., Mr. Okey Okuzu.

The project will be completed and implemented by the end of July 2017.

http://atlanticwastepower.com/2017/07/awps-signs-history-making-contract/

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DMerciful(m): 10:25am On Jul 02
My rèco is to go for 2*3 configuration so that combined Voc is 84V. Use 16mm cable or more for ur installation. Doing 3*2 will give u Voc of 126V and for a 24v system, the pull down voltage will be too much so as kiekie1 said, this is best for 48v system. Cheers
bodeface:
Hello SMEs

Happy Sunday to everyone.

I am planning on installing 6 numbers of 310W solar panels with 60A, 150V Schneider XW 60 MPPT CC, this is a phased Installation, the short circuit current of the PV is about 9A, while the max operating current is about 8.2A, the VOC is 42V and the max operating voltage is about 36V. The battery bank and Inverter operating voltage is 24V (already existing)

I just want opinion from the SME on the best combination for better efficiency, from the look of things this could be 2 arrays (2 X 3PVs In series) or 3 arrays of (3 X 2PVs in series).

Which do you think will be of better efficiency, appreciate all comments

2 Likes

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DMerciful(m): 10:26am On Jul 02
This weather is not helping at all. My solar system cannot shout!
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by JohnKester: 11:52am On Jul 02
DMerciful:
This weather is not helping at all. My solar system cannot shout!

Explain please!

Cheers
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bodeface: 1:28pm On Jul 02
Thanks to all the SMEs for all your inputs, this has reinforced my understanding, I will set it up as an array 2*3 configuration as 84V VOC, the wire run between the combiner box and the PV array is just about 5-6 meters, I sized my cable to be 6mm2 and the combiner to the Solar charger is just about 6 meters, the cable was sized to be 16mm2, this should all be adequate.

@Kiekie

Thanks for your input, How much is your Surge Arrestor both DC and the AC, all other items already in stock


DMerciful:
My rèco is to go for 2*3 configuration so that combined Voc is 84V. Use 16mm cable or more for ur installation. Doing 3*2 will give u Voc of 126V and for a 24v system, the pull down voltage will be too much so as kiekie1 said, this is best for 48v system. Cheers

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by mcTrinity(m): 2:15pm On Jul 02
DMerciful:
This weather is not helping at all. My solar system cannot shout!

Lolz... the rain is doing its work!

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