bodejohn:
Oga Richmon74, you should not jump to conclusions that because we get a yield that is lower than your expections the panels are therefore cheap and substandard.

Like I said in my previous post, my CC switches to float around midday and since I hardly dip my batteries below 70% DOD I do not expect any better result. In my own case I know my battery bank is undersized, the more reason I am willing to increase by switching to Trojan batteries.

I was able to cross the 10kW mark because I switched on my fridge and freezer a little earlier on the said day and my wife had a filled day using the washing machine and the water pump.

As rightly mentioned above, overall harvest is also a function of what is being demanded. Even if you have the best panel money can buy and your energy usage is low, your yield won't shoot beyond what you have consumed.

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Hello newbie,, guess you made a mistake tho !

salam12:


As rightly mentioned above, overall harvest is also a function of what is being demanded. Even if you have the best panel money can buy and your energy usage is low, your yield won't shoot beyond what you have consumed.

I'm seriously suspecting my solar panels installation. I have a deep freezer, fridge, water dispenser, and electronics hooked on all day. Occasionally, the microwave oven, washing machine etc...
The best harvest in the last 180days was 6+kWh. It hovers between 4 and 6kwh daily.

If there's no utility support for about 3 days, the inverter will hit Vcutoff at 60%dod.
So I mitigate this by rationing from day 2, as the harvest is not enough to meet demand.

Richmond maybe right about my installation. From the testimonies I've read so far, my harvest is seriously below par!

Note, the highest instantaneous power recorded was 1700+Watts. From November 1st to date, it has not exceeded 1400watts.
I'm in Calabar, it still rains here, so my panels are clean.

What's the way forward?

richmon74:

Oga that's not too good. Just as abunafiu has said you should be getting more than 10kwh. One of your problems is that your panels are too close to the roof. that makes the panels over heat especially in this period because there is no proper air circulation. The second issue is the quality of ur solar panels. You have a pro inverter and charge controller so you should enjoy.
I have a 9 255w (2295w) solarworld panels site that yields over 13kwh.
I have also posted a 3060w solarworld panels site that yielded 17.4kwh.
People should stop wasting their money on the so called cheap panels which are not cheap at the end of the day after all.

@richmon74, i respect ur opinions and i hope to do business with you oneday but let me clarify a notion u have always portrayed here on this forum.

A notion about generating 120% of your solar panel rated power....i actually laughed the first time i saw such post and you have used it over and over to market ur products.

The cheapest 80watts panel( in white carton wch cost 9k) in alaba int produces 120% of its rated power as long as other parameters of installations are right. Well i am speaking of from my experience in the north(kaduna,jos n adamawa).

Also, as bodejohn pointed out being cheap doesnt denote poor output . The difference may be number of years that maximal yield may last.

Right now, am still observing a set of those very cheap panels and their performance ,wch is still good after 5yrs of installing them in a hospital lab In adamawa.

NB- my post is not meant to play down ur products but since this forum is for DIY guys, some people may not b able to afford highly priced products like yours and get totally discouraged about going green.

Also @ALL, the cheapest products aint the best in solar systems ....go for mid range product if you cant afford the highly priced ones.
Thank you

Barezzi,
How many batteries do you have?
And what is the capacity of each of the batteries?

bodejohn:
Barezzi,
How many batteries do you have?
And what is the capacity of each of the batteries?

Four 12v batteries at 200ah each connected in series.
4kw+ magnum inverter...

Barezzi:

Four 12v batteries at 200ah each connected in series.
4kw+ magnum inverter...

Four 12v-200ah batteries will give you potentially 9600w at 48v. Can we know your panel size and rating?

life707:


@richmon74, i respect ur opinions and i hope to do business with you oneday but let me clarify a notion u have always portrayed here on this forum.

A notion about generating 120% of your solar panel rated power....i actually laughed the first time i saw such post and you have used it over and over to market ur products.

The cheapest 80watts panel( in white carton wch cost 9k) in alaba int produces 120% of its rated power as long as other parameters of installations are right. Well i am speaking of from my experience in the north(kaduna,jos n adamawa).

Also, as bodejohn pointed out being cheap doesnt denote poor output . The difference may be number of years that maximal yield may last.

Right now, am still observing a set of those very cheap panels and their performance ,wch is still good after 5yrs of installing them in a hospital lab In adamawa.

NB- my post is not meant to play down ur products but since this forum is for DIY guys, some people may not b able to afford highly priced products like yours and get totally discouraged about going green.

Also @ALL, the cheapest products aint the best in solar systems ....go for mid range product if you cant afford the highly priced ones.
Thank you

Richmond opinion will always be respected as far as renewable energy is concern. Panel technology is not too far apart today. Thanks to Chinese, access to cheap panels would have been impossible today. Panel efficiency is a function of orientation, cable sizing, placement angle, good air flow for cooling purpose and choice of controller. If these conditions can be achieved, no reason for low production.

Barezzi:

Four 12v batteries at 200ah each connected in series.
4kw+ magnum inverter...

Obviously, your battery bank is too small for your 2.1kW solar panel array considering the fact that you also dont go below 60% DOD.

If you can double your battery bank, you will see a significant increase in your power generation.

I usually do not advise mixing old and new batteries especially when the old batteries are more than six months and of different model or manufacturer.

bodejohn:


Obviously, your battery bank is too small for your 2.1kW solar panel array considering the fact that you also dont go below 60% DOD.

If you can double your battery bank, you will see a significant increase in your power generation.

I usually do not advise mixing old and new batteries especially when the old batteries are more than six months and of different model or manufacturer.

yes I agree with you on this. the larger d battery bank the higher d yield.
as for richmond solar world panels. I can bear witness to the fact that solarworld panels generate 120% yield because I was privileged to be with him in one of his numerous sites. He shares some of the daily reults with me after d installation.

Personally, I use joysolar mono panels. during cool weather conditions I do get 1300w from my 1080watts panels. though it doesn't last for over a minute and it happens only once in a while. the average I get is 900watts and as we all know it fluctuates.
Joysolar is a cheap Chinese product. I have been using since around march 2013.
NOTE: I currently use only 9 out of 10 panels. I was using 2 by 2 configuration b4 so I had 5 strings. but now I use 3 by 3 which means I have only 3 strings which ia 9 panels of 120watts.
if I could afford I wd buy solarworld because d whole thing about it built to last. very strong frame as u can even stand on them. the frame holding d cells together is nothing compared to my joysolar.
I remembered when I assited him to load about 24 panels on his truck. those panels were very heavy that I got tired after carrying rhw 4th panels. whereas my 7 year old sister could carry my joysolar.

as salami12 said. .. d cheap ones aint really d best in terms of renewable energy as u get what u pay 4. midrange is a good starting point.

bodejohn:


I usually do not advise mixing old and new batteries especially when the old batteries are more than six months and of different model or manufacturer.

@All, what are the norms for solar panels? Can they be mixed, new and old, different size watts, model and/or manufacturers?

bodejohn:


Obviously, your battery bank is too small for your 2.1kW solar panel array considering the fact that you also dont go below 60% DOD.

If you can double your battery bank, you will see a significant increase in your power generation.

I usually do not advise mixing old and new batteries especially when the old batteries are more than six months and of different model or manufacturer.

This's precisely my gut feeling.
I'm also convinced my array is not optimally installed.

Barezzi:

This's precisely my gut feeling.
I'm also convinced my array is not optimally installed.

You can only confirm this by monitoring or logging the data on the CC over a period of time.

But as it is now, to me you are trying to kill a hen with a rocket launcher.

for the past two weeks i have not been able to fully charge my battery. the reason is because nepa gives us light 40mins in in 6hrs and my 390w solar can't charge my 400ah battery during usage. any suggestion?

bodejohn:


You can only confirm this by monitoring or logging the data on the CC over a period of time.

But as it is now, to me you are trying to kill a hen with a rocket launcher.

I have over 180 days data.
Doubling my battery bank should do the trick!
I'll start from there...

JUO:
for the past two weeks i have not been able to fully charge my battery. the reason is because nepa gives us light 40mins in in 6hrs and my 390w solar can't charge my 400ah battery during usage. any suggestion?

Yes, increase your solar array.

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MiCasa:


@All, what are the norms for solar panels? Can they be mixed, new and old, different size watts, model and/or manufacturers?

Yes you can

WOW

Thanks to Barezzi

This thread is witnessing a discussion again.

bodejohn
Yes you are very right about the fact that the yield is a function of the demand from the load.
When I talked about Barezzi installation I was talking because I know the system very well. I was not just assuming. i was there when it was done and Barezzi himself being a technical man noticed some outstanding errors in the installation.

life707
Yes it's true that the cheap panels doesn't mean inferior. Most times when I talk about cheap panels I actually refer to the fake panels ratings that is common in Alaba. If you haven't been a victim before I have and I know what I am talking about. Also if you have followed my post before the forum went down you would have seen when I posted an excellent yield from a cheap solar panel from Alaba called DESMARK. I posted the detail yield and it was over 100% of its rated output. I remember writing extensively on the fact that as long as the specification sheet on the panel is correct, the silicon cells will deliver optimally if properly installed.

For your information, I am not a Solarworld rep. I am an installer. I supply Solarworld panels directly from their rep on discounted prices. I simply identify with Solarworld panels because of their outstanding performances/quality compared to most of the other ones I've seen and tested. If you know of any other product that can compare with the quality of the Solarworld Sunmodule Solar Panels that is commonly available here in Nigeria please let me know and I will buy and test it and post the result here.

I do not know what the performance of the SW panels will be yet in the Northern region you've mentioned. But if the common panels could deliver up to 120% output as you've mentioned, I will like you to try out SW panels in that region and give us feedback. Next time you want to buy Solar panels to install in those region let me know and I'll give you SW panels at the same rate with the alaba panels so you can compare and send feedback.

Joysolar, Yingli and the likes are very great panels with excellent peformance compared to the SW panels. But they still fall in some technical qualities that makes then stand down. I have had an experience of the frame of a yingli panel pull off when I attempted lifting it up by the frame. I posted sometimes ago how lightning shattered the glass of 10 panels in one site. These are not likely with SW panels.

Well, It is not everyone that must use solarworld so please stretch your hands to where you can reach.

richmon74:

life707
Yes it's true that the cheap panels doesn't mean inferior. Most times when I talk about cheap panels I actually refer to the fake panels ratings that is common in Alaba. If you haven't been a victim before I have and I know what I am talking about. Also if you have followed my post before the forum went down you would have seen when I posted an excellent yield from a cheap solar panel from Alaba called DESMARK. I posted the detail yield and it was over 100% of its rated output. I remember writing extensively on the fact that as long as the specification sheet on the panel is correct, the silicon cells will deliver optimally if properly installed.
For your information, I am not a Solarworld rep. I am an installer. I supply Solarworld panels directly from their rep on discounted prices. I simply identify with Solarworld panels because of their outstanding performances/quality compared to most of the other ones I've seen and tested. If you know of any other product that can compare with the quality of the Solarworld Sunmodule Solar Panels that is commonly available here in Nigeria please let me know and I will buy and test it and post the result here.
I do not know what the performance of the SW panels will be yet in the Northern region you've mentioned. But if the common panels could deliver up to 120% output as you've mentioned, I will like you to try out SW panels in that region and give us feedback. Next time you want to buy Solar panels to install in those region let me know and I'll give you SW panels at the same rate with the alaba panels so you can compare and send feedback.
Joysolar, Yingli and the likes are very great panels with excellent peformance compared to the SW panels. But they still fall in some technical qualities that makes then stand down. I have had an experience of the frame of a yingli panel pull off when I attempted lifting it up by the frame. I posted sometimes ago how lightning shattered the glass of 10 panels in one site. These are not likely with SW panels.
Well, It is not everyone that must use solarworld so please stretch your hands to where you can reach.

Its owk, ur response was quite apt.

I bliv we will do business soon and get to document performance of d panels in the north( am optimistic of d Result).
Thanks

richmon74:
WOW

Thanks to Barezzi

This thread is witnessing a discussion again.

bodejohn
Yes you are very right about the fact that the yield is a function of the demand from the load.
When I talked about Barezzi installation I was talking because I know the system very well. I was not just assuming. i was there when it was done and Barezzi himself being a technical man noticed some outstanding errors in the installation.

You once suggested that my panels were not like "Solarworld" and are therefore not.....because of the power I said it delivered..
In my 15yrs of electrical engineering practice, I am yet to see any energy conversion that gives 100% not to talk of 120%.
This however is my personal observation and not meant to mean that it is impossible.

bodejohn:


You once suggested that my panels were not like "Solarworld" and are therefore not.....because of the power I said it delivered..
In my 15yrs of electrical engineering practice, I am yet to see any energy conversion that gives 100% not to talk of 120%.
This however is my personal observation and not meant to mean that it is impossible.

It's such a pity that in your 15yrs of electrical engineering practice you have always been limited to environments where energy conversions from SOLAR PANELS stay within 100%.

But in my 2 months of renewable energy apprenticeship I av installed 12 of 255w solarworld solar panels at Unity road in Lekki in Lagos (a very easy place to locate in case anyone wants to chexk it our) which is by calculation 3060w and the Outback FM80 charge controller records a Maximun Wattage output from it to be 3654w as shown in the pictures below. Or maybe the charge controller is faulty or I can't read the digits very well.

Maybe I need a better explanation to that readout

richmon74:


It's such a pity that in your 15yrs of electrical engineering practice you have always been limited to environments where energy conversions from SOLAR PANELS stay within 100%.

Sorry to disappoint you, I have not been limited to any disadvantaged environment. As a matter of fact I have cris crossed top countries in Europe and North America where renewable energy is not only a diy affair but a way of life.

To even be more specific, I have had a tour of a renewable energy plant (A massive solar farm serving a whole community) in Kolin, in one of my trips to Prague, Czech Republic.

I stand by my words, there is no form of energy conversion that delivers 100% efficiency not to talk of 120%. The last time I checked the laws of physics have not changed.

This will be my last response on this issue.

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@ bodejohn,

I can attest to it(120%) even in my own house in jos.
I rest my case on this matter

I got an 800va Sukam inverter recently to compliment the Genus 1.4kva inverter I have. I installed it with 200AH battery, the problem I have is, the inverter will charge the battery for like 2 hours and show full charged. It discharges quickly, showing it was not fully charged as the inverter suggest, though the battery is new. I have tested it with another battery but same result. What may be wrong?

Solar setup is not always an exact science, one needs to sometimes sit down and do the maths. If 2KW of "alaba" panels gives me 1KW peak performance but it costs N100,000, does it not make sense to buy that compared to more expensive panels that gives me 1kw/1kw but cost N150,000? Rather than talking about panel this, panel that, we should talk about the eventual cost per kWh generated. And I'm with bodejohn, unless panels are deliberately underrated, achieving 100% efficiency is NOT POSSIBLE. That is the law of physics. When you convert energy, you MUST LOSE some. If you are seeing 120%, it is either your metres/readings are faulty or the panels have higher ratings than the labels on them. And no one should equate loquaciousness to knowledge. Indeed, most people who claim expertise here appear to have poor theoretical grounding.

adrusa:
Solar setup is not always an exact science, one needs to sometimes sit down and do the maths. If 2KW of "alaba" panels gives me 1KW peak performance but it costs N100,000, does it not make sense to buy that compared to more expensive panels that gives me 1kw/1kw but cost N150,000? Rather than talking about panel this, panel that, we should talk about the eventual cost per kWh generated. And I'm with bodejohn, unless panels are deliberately underrated, achieving 100% efficiency is NOT POSSIBLE. That is the law of physics. When you convert energy, you MUST LOSE some. If you are seeing 120%, it is either your metres/readings are faulty or the panels have higher ratings than the labels on them. And no one should equate loquaciousness to knowledge. Indeed, most people who claim expertise here appear to have poor theoretical grounding.

Solar panels come in different categories, from premium to economy brands. That's why you can have panels from different manufactures with the SAME rated power perform differently under the SAME conditions. This information you can easily find on the datasheet of every solar panel.
Every panel reacts differently to ambient temperature and solar irradiance.
I had to look at the datasheet of my spare "kpako" panel, and found that its power rating is based on Lab conditions (STC) of 25 deg C and 1000w/sqr meter irradiance.
I am sure you will agree that in field use, each panel deviates from its STC I-V curve characteristics...
Ambient/cell temperatures usually escort below 25 deg C, and i'm sure in Nigeria we have peak solar irradiance in excess of 1000w/sqr meter.
Can this scenario cause a transient surge in field performance better than Lab conditions??
Don't be too quick to condemn what you've not exhaustively researched.

I found this on Google. I believe this will help throw more light into the ongoing discussion.

Solar cell efficiency
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dust often accumulates on the glass of solar panels - seen here as black dots - which reduces the amount of light available to the panel.

Solar cell efficiency is the ratio of the electrical output of a solar cell to the incident energy in the form of sunlight. The energy conversion efficiency (η) of a solar cell is the percentage of the solar energy to which the cell is exposed that is converted into electrical energy.[1] This is calculated by dividing a cell's power output (in watts) at its maximum power point (Pm) by the input light (E, in W/m2) and the surface area of the solar cell (Ac in m2).

Efficiency = Pm/EAc

By convention, solar cell efficiencies are measured under standard test conditions (STC) unless stated otherwise. STC specifies a temperature of 25 °C and an irradiance of 1000 W/m2 with an air mass 1.5 (AM1.5) spectrum. These conditions correspond to a clear day with sunlight incident upon a sun-facing 37°-tilted surface with the sun at an angle of 41.81° above the horizon.[2][3] This represents solar noon near the spring and autumn equinoxes in the continental United States with surface of the cell aimed directly at the sun. Under these test conditions a solar cell of 20% efficiency with a 100 cm2 ( (10 cm)2 ) surface area would produce 2.0 W.

The efficiency of the solar cells used in a photovoltaic system, in combination with latitude and climate, determines the annual energy output of the system. For example, a solar panel with 20% efficiency and an area of 1 m² will produce 200 W at STC, but it can produce more when the sun is high in the sky and will produce less in cloudy conditions and when the sun is low in the sky. In central Colorado, which receives annual insolation of 2200 kWh/m²,[4] such a panel can be expected to produce 440 kWh of energy per year. However, in Michigan, which receives only 1400 kWh/m²/yr,[4] annual energy yield will drop to 280 kWh for the same panel. At more northerly European latitudes, yields are significantly lower: 175 kWh annual energy yield in southern England.[5]

Several factors affect a cell's conversion efficiency value, including its reflectance efficiency, thermodynamic efficiency, charge carrier separation efficiency, and conduction efficiency values.[1] Because these parameters can be difficult to measure directly, other parameters are measured instead, including quantum efficiency, VOC ratio, and fill factor. Reflectance losses are accounted for by the quantum efficiency value, as they affect "external quantum efficiency." Recombination losses are accounted for by the quantum efficiency, VOC ratio, and fill factor values. Resistive losses are predominantly accounted for by the fill factor value, but also contribute to the quantum efficiency and VOC ratio values.

As of September 2013, the highest efficiencies have been achieved by using multiple junction cells at high solar concentrations (44.7% by the Fraunhofer ISE, Soitec, CEA-Leti and the Helmholtz-Zentrum Berlin).[6]

c0ogumo:
I found this on Google. I believe this will help throw more light into the ongoing discussion.

Solar cell efficiency
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dust often accumulates on the glass of solar panels - seen here as black dots - which reduces the amount of light available to the panel.

Solar cell efficiency is the ratio of the electrical output of a solar cell to the incident energy in the form of sunlight. The energy conversion efficiency (η) of a solar cell is the percentage of the solar energy to which the cell is exposed that is converted into electrical energy.[1] This is calculated by dividing a cell's power output (in watts) at its maximum power point (Pm) by the input light (E, in W/m2) and the surface area of the solar cell (Ac in m2).

Efficiency = Pm/EAc

By convention, solar cell efficiencies are measured under standard test conditions (STC) unless stated otherwise. STC specifies a temperature of 25 °C and an irradiance of 1000 W/m2 with an air mass 1.5 (AM1.5) spectrum. These conditions correspond to a clear day with sunlight incident upon a sun-facing 37°-tilted surface with the sun at an angle of 41.81° above the horizon.[2][3] This represents solar noon near the spring and autumn equinoxes in the continental United States with surface of the cell aimed directly at the sun. Under these test conditions a solar cell of 20% efficiency with a 100 cm2 ( (10 cm)2 ) surface area would produce 2.0 W.

The efficiency of the solar cells used in a photovoltaic system, in combination with latitude and climate, determines the annual energy output of the system. For example, a solar panel with 20% efficiency and an area of 1 m² will produce 200 W at STC, but it can produce more when the sun is high in the sky and will produce less in cloudy conditions and when the sun is low in the sky. In central Colorado, which receives annual insolation of 2200 kWh/m²,[4] such a panel can be expected to produce 440 kWh of energy per year. However, in Michigan, which receives only 1400 kWh/m²/yr,[4] annual energy yield will drop to 280 kWh for the same panel. At more northerly European latitudes, yields are significantly lower: 175 kWh annual energy yield in southern England.[5]

Several factors affect a cell's conversion efficiency value, including its reflectance efficiency, thermodynamic efficiency, charge carrier separation efficiency, and conduction efficiency values.[1] Because these parameters can be difficult to measure directly, other parameters are measured instead, including quantum efficiency, VOC ratio, and fill factor. Reflectance losses are accounted for by the quantum efficiency value, as they affect "external quantum efficiency." Recombination losses are accounted for by the quantum efficiency, VOC ratio, and fill factor values. Resistive losses are predominantly accounted for by the fill factor value, but also contribute to the quantum efficiency and VOC ratio values.

As of September 2013, the highest efficiencies have been achieved by using multiple junction cells at high solar concentrations (44.7% by the Fraunhofer ISE, Soitec, CEA-Leti and the Helmholtz-Zentrum Berlin).[6]

Gbam, this says it all. Stc is the rating used under normal conditions but due to the weather in Africa we are above standard conditions. Bodegeorge take note. Traveling around the world does not guarantee knowledge.