Tijani omo morocco ni beyen wa ko yin je.. boy yen de pa iro fun yin.. e de gba be ..chai

Very interesting thread, two innovators (Jabata boy and Sufi boy) arguing.

Both of them are just using misguidance to refute misguidance. AlhamduliLLaah for the mercy of Sunnah.

Empiree, please I beg you in the name of Allah, don't ever link me to a jabata boy again.

The Sunnah is free from Jabata and his creed so also is the methodology of the Salafs (May Allah have mercy on them).

Newnas:
Very interesting thread, two innovators (Jabata boy and Sufi boy) arguing.

Both of them are just using misguidance to refute misguidance. AlhamduliLLaah for the mercy of Sunnah.

Empiree, please I beg you in the name of Allah, don't ever link me to a jabata boy again.

The Sunnah is free from Jabata and his creed so also is the methodology of the Salafs (May Allah have mercy on them).

Calling jabata an innovator and u also call sufi and shia an innovator. TELL ME JUST ONE BIDA JABATA HAS INNOVATED INTO THE DEEN AND SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM WITH DELEEL

AhluSunnah:
Calling jabata an innovator and u also call sufi and shia an innovator. TELL ME JUST ONE BIDA JABATA HAS INNOVATED INTO THE DEEN AND SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM WITH DELEEL

Very sumple:

#His claim that eating with spoon is an innovation.
Eating is not Ibadah, so the basis regarding what and how one eats is that they are halal and mubah.

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 29:
هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ لَكُم مَّا فِي الْأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ فَسَوَّاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

He it is Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven and made them seven heavens and He is the All-Knower of everything.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

So, it can't be an innovation, the worst it can be is Haram not bida.

Then, non of the salad ever proceeded him in this claim. Imam Albany said anyone who says spoon is Bida is an ignorant fellow. see al-ikhtiyaarat al-fiqhiyyah of Albany compiled by Ibrahim Shaadi

More to follow ...

Secondly,

Claiming that he is sufficed by the texts of the Quran and Sunnah from the explanation of scholars.

This is an innovation also, Allah says:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 83:
وَإِذَا جَاءَهُمْ أَمْرٌ مِّنَ الْأَمْنِ أَوِ الْخَوْفِ أَذَاعُوا بِهِ وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَىٰ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ وَلَوْلَا فَضْلُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَتُهُ لَاتَّبَعْتُمُ الشَّيْطَانَ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا

When there comes to them some matter touching (public) safety or fear, they make it known (among the people), if only they had referred it to the Messenger or to those charged with authority among them, the proper investigators would have understood it from them (directly). Had it not been for the Grace and Mercy of Allah upon you, you would have followed Shaitan (Satan), save a few of you.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

The authorities here are the people of knowledge, the scholars of Islam

Thirdly,

Saying that all innovations is disbelief and all innovators are disbelievers.

He has absolutely no salaf in this opinion.

But I'll just clarify it for you in just three ways:

# The messenger alyhissolaat was salaam said all innovation is misguidance (he didn't say kufr). Misguidance has many meanings in the texts of the Quran and Sunnah, it can mean mistake, sin, and it may also mean disbelief.
What is his evidence for calling it disbelief?

# The scholars past and present are unanimously agreed that the report of innovators is acceptable if it his bidah is less than kufr. And they also agree that the report of disbelievers is never to be accepted. See books of Mustalah for details.

# Bukharee, Muslim and many books of hadith contain reports of innovators. The scholars accepted them and so also the ummah. Jabata and his creed means that all the books of hadith are compiled disbelievers so also the authors such as Bukharee and Muslim are disbelievers for accepting reports of 'disbelievers'

# Imam Ali bn Abi Talib (rodiyaLLaahu anhu) said the khawarij (first sect in Islam) are our brothers but have only transgressed against us.

I'll stop here though there's a lot more.

Newnas:


Very sumple:

#His claim that eating with spoon is an innovation.
Eating is not Ibadah, so the basis regarding what and how one eats is that they are halal and mubah.

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 29:
هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ لَكُم مَّا فِي الْأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ فَسَوَّاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَهُوَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

He it is Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven and made them seven heavens and He is the All-Knower of everything.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

So, it can't be an innovation, the worst it can be is Haram not bida.

Then, non of the salad ever proceeded him in this claim. Imam Albany said anyone who says spoon is Bida is an ignorant fellow. see al-ikhtiyaarat al-fiqhiyyah of Albany compiled by Ibrahim Shaadi

More to follow ...

So,eating is mubah or halal?whats ur proof on that? and what is bidah? and how does replacing hand with spoon n0t..

And am still waiting for your proof that eating with spoon is not bida. . the quran verse u quoted has nothing to do with what we are discussing. . NEWNAS newnas Newnas

Newnas so what you are saying is that any muslim that takes proof of islam from QURAN AND HADITH himself or herself has done bidah? . .because that is exactly what jabata is doing

Newnas please do n0t stop . .continue. . from what i learned 4rm what u said, bida is divided into sin and kufru and that means the innovators are into sinner and kafir right? and that a muslim must never take proof of deen fr0m quran and hadith himself right? qmp

so all bidah is not kufru..please give us proof.. and that no salaf said all bida is kufru? i w0nt bring u salaf but proof from quran and hadith?..and i will also explain the misguidance in the hadith kulu bidatun dolala..and its a lie that no scholar said all bida is kufru and u kn0w u are telling lies.. and who and who are innovators in bukhari and muslim hadith reports o...RASUL SAID KHAWARIJ ARE KAFIR AND HE COMMANDED SAHABAHS TO KILL THEM IN WHICH ITS TIME OF ALI, ALI KILL THEM..so u prefer imam ali fatwa to rasul fatwa abi. . . its either u misunderstood or u are an hizbiyoon or you do follow imams or scholars blindly.ALL SUNNAH SCHOLARS SAID WE SHOULD NOT FOLLOW THEIR FATWA WITHOUT SEEING PROOF FROM QURAN AND HADITH... well i wil took the pain to explain all what u misunderstood..hg

same folks...different faces

Empiree:
same folks...different faces

Walahi we are different. . How can a student of sunnah or a follower of sunnah rejects taking proof of our deen from quran and sunnah by ourselves? he is trying to say we must follow scholars.. and a sunnah follower will never insult sunnah scholar. HE CALLED NASIRDEEN ALBANY A JAHL....thats insane thing to sayK.bh

Bida means innovation, it means adding or deducting from the rules of the deen, it also means that making laws into the deen... newnas . .or do u wana deny that my definition of bidah is wrong??

Anything that falls into any of the category of the bida definition, no matter how big or small, its kufru... becoz it go against suratul maidah verse 3. any anybody that deny quran verse or an ahyah is a kafir right? BUT IT IS NOT EVERYONE THAT DOES A KUFRU ACT IS A KAFIR..but that doesnt mean such act is not a kufru act... there are things that are like conditions before someone that makes or do a kufru act is called or becomes a kafir. . . .IF THE PERSON DOES NOT FORGET, HE OR SHE DOESNT UNDERSTAND, OR THE PERSON WAS FORCED...hing

^^^

You sound like a baby in the cradle

Jazakallaah khayran Newnas..

Indeed when two innovators meet and they don't agree, you can't help but laugh at their confusion and ignorance.....


May Allaah guide them to the truth and let them follow it, Ameen.

It's you that should bring proof that spoon is an innovation because it's not an act of worship basically. Just like the way one who says that eating jollof rice of Friday evening is bidah.

I have quoted earlier my salaf on this issue i.e Imam Albany. If you like I'll quote more.

First, what is your proof from the Quran and Sunnah?

Secondly, Who proceeded you and Jabata in this explanation and understanding? Or Jabata is the first person to recite the Quran or read the hadith?!

Like Imam Ahlu Sunnah Ahmad bn Muhammad bn Hanbal said to his student: Beware of saying what you have no salaf for!

As for Bidah being divided into sin and kufr, there is no doubt about it. Bidah is divided into sin and kufr.

The problem with you Jabata boys is that you don't learn anything other than what Jabata teaches you.

The scholars of Islam past and present undoubtedly agree that Bidah is divided into mukaffirah and ghayr-mukaffirah. Read books of hadith, aqeedah, fiqh, manhaj etc.

PLEASE,FOR ALLAH'S SAKE, JUST QUOTE ONE SALAF THAT SAYS ALL BIDAH IS KUFR

Newnas:
It's you that should bring proof that spoon is an innovation because it's not an act of worship basically. Just like the way one who says that eating jollof rice of Friday evening is bidah.

I have quoted earlier my salaf on this issue i.e Imam Albany. If you like I'll quote more.

First, what is your proof from the Quran and Sunnah?

Secondly, Who proceeded you and Jabata in this explanation and understanding? Or Jabata is the first person to recite the Quran or read the hadith?!

Like Imam Ahlu Sunnah Ahmad bn Muhammad bn Hanbal said to his student: Beware of saying what you have no salaf for!

Everyone with common sense can read and understand and take proof from quran and hadith. . i w0nt bring any salaf to support my claim but ALLAH words only and rasul hadith. . .d hadith of eating is ibadah because what ibadah entails is "how to do something(act of worship" . .rasul teach us how to dress,perform salat,eat,read quran,how&what to believe. . .apR

AhluSunnah:
Everyone with common sense can read and understand and take proof from quran and hadith. . i w0nt bring any salaf to support my claim but ALLAH words only and rasul hadith. . .d hadith of eating is ibadah because what ibadah entails is "how to do something(act of worship" . .rasul teach us how to dress,perform salat,eat,read quran,how&what to believe. . .apR

Everyone with common sense you say? What's the difference between you and the Ahlul kalaam? Asharis, jahmis, mu'tazilis, maturudis?

AbdelKabir:


Everyone with common sense you say? What's the difference between you and the Ahlul kalaam? Asharis, jahmis, mu'tazilis, maturudis?

Aqeedah, ibaadat and everything else. . those are kaafir. and do u also believe that we cant understand islam without salaf(nowadays scholars) explanation? abi where is it in quran or hadith that its a must we must take salafs fatwa o. . tell me where muslims take the proof of islam and everything it entails from?gt

Newnas:
As for Bidah being divided into sin and kufr, there is no doubt about it. Bidah is divided into sin and kufr.

The problem with you Jabata boys is that you don't learn anything other than what Jabata teaches you.

The scholars of Islam past and present undoubtedly agree that Bidah is divided into mukaffirah and ghayr-mukaffirah. Read books of hadith, aqeedah, fiqh, manhaj etc.

PLEASE,FOR ALLAH'S SAKE, JUST QUOTE ONE SALAF THAT SAYS ALL BIDAH IS KUFR

MR SCHOLAR, WHAT IS THEIR PROOF THAT ALL BIDAH IS NOT KUFRU. I WILL TELL U THE SCHOLAS AND THEIR BOOK AND THE PAGE...what pains me is that u wil never agree n0ni even if u see proof. .all u do is taklid. na alfa u dey f0llow. .every single bida goes against quran verse. .yet u claim its divided into sin and kufru. .if u read those scholars that divided bida fatwa, u wil see the alfa mixed things up. . he made mistake..yet u intentionally follow d mistake after u have kn0wn the truth..kontinue..4DGD

Newnas you are saying whatz altmost wrong by not directing all masalah to ALLAH and rasul.. u saying its a must we have salaf on any issue. do u even know who are salafs? salafs are sahabahs..salafs are just commonly used for nowadays scholars.TELL ME WHICH SALAF DO SAHABHS DO TAKE HIS WORDS DURING RASUL ERA? TELL ME WHICH SALAF SAHABAHS DO TAKE HIS FATWA AFTER RASUL DIED? WHEN RASUL WANTS TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, WHICH SALAF WORDS DO HE REFER TO? And its in quran, fa intanuzai fa roddu ilalah wa rasul..meaning that if u are arguing on issue, refer it to ALLAH (quran) and rasul(hadith) . .WHERE DO U SEE SCHOLARS OR SALAF? and for ur information, salafs(nowaday scholars) do not agree on the same stance on any issue. . hijab, khawarij,tarik salat,postration and so on. . . . its u that wil use common sense to follow fatwa.. fatwa without proof fr0m kitab wa sunnah.. do not follow it..v

Ibadaat= quran 5:156. Worship is obedience of ALLAH by following that which ALLAH ordered upon the tongues of rasuls. . so as we all know that rasul is free of desire. He said we must eat with 3 fingers, and we must lick that fingers before we wash off our hands.. ALLAH commanded rasul to teach us HOW TO EAT and u replace the 3 fingers with spoon. . that means u do n0t accept the hadith, and you also go against quran verse that said religion is complete... how to eat is ibadah just like how to dress and how to perform salah and others is. . . . and you dare replace the 3 fingers with spoon because of ur desire.. u have done tashreey. u make law into the deen that spoon is better than what ALLAH commanded( 3 fingers)... mind u, eat with 3 fingers is what the hadith says n0t drink with 3 fingers... its bida to use spoon and its kufru

JABATA BOY KE? I AM PROPHET MUHAMMAD BOY.. I only listen to jabata and others lecture because everything the say, they always have proofs fr0m quran and hadith....... na so u people call people who listen to muhammad bin abdul wahab WAHABIYA an people who listen to ibn uthaymeen IBN UTHAYMEEN w

birds of a feather flock together. Same people different faces

Empiree:
birds of a feather flock together. Same people different faces

PROVE IT O

Proof is in Y'all

You are talking with no knowledge in anyway, all you are doing is making claims without supporting with reliable proofs.

Your claim that all Bidah is kufr because it goes against one verse or another, subhanaLLaah! This is exactly one of the baseless excuses the khawaarij gave for their misguidance.

As for spoon issue, the messenger used to comb his hair starting from the right, is it also kufr to start from the left or to use hairbrush instead of comb?

The spoon issue is a rather ignorant and most absurd innovation of Jabata.
There is absolutely no scholar -past or present- that proceeded him in this claim!!! If you doubt it please bring it forth.

Lastly, you said I'm doing taqleed. I'm sure you don't know what is taqleed. I'm telling you that Jabata is the first and only person to ever have these opinions.

If not, ask for:

#his teacher: or he doesn't have a teacher?!

#his contemporaries in seeking knowledge.

He won't produce any.

All the scholars he claims to follow denied him and his evil ideology such as Sheikh AlHilaalee, Sheikh Madkhalee etc.

Do you know that soheehul Bukharee and Muslim contain narrations of well known innovators?

If Bukharee and Muslim made mistake, all the other scholars of Islam also made mistake?

So I should leave the opinion of Ahmad bn Hanbal, Malik bn Anas, Shafi, Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibnul Qoyyim, Ibn Baaz, Ibnul Uthymeen, Albany, Barbahaaree, Alqoirowaany, Tohaawiyy, and all the scholars of Islam for an opinion invented by a man who just appeared less than a decade ago?!

Muhammad bn AbdilWahab is not like Jabata at all, he came renew not innovate. Everything he said has been said by the scholars before him, it's the ignorance and dogmatism of people that made them think it's new.

Now I challenge you, mention one salaf from the companions or any scholar after them that said all Bidah is kufr!!!