prospero5:
the guy above me. na wa ooo!

the story is about Gaddafi not USA.

The guy is correct. USA instigated the unrest that finally led to his death (that does not mean he was a saint oh!).

Have you ever asked why he was killed when he came out from hiding (even though nowhere to run again) and he surrendered?

There are 3 major projects he wanted to do in Africa to ensure that western world don't interfere in our politics.

Boycott IMF/World Bank and create the African equivalent.

Boycott internent service provision from the western world and establish a hub for Africa in Africa

Establish one language for Africa as an equivalent to English Language/ French Language.

Apart from the 'OYEL' they wanted in Libya and that he was arrogant to the western world, those 3 factors led to his death.

And I say it anytime I have the opportunity, Libya of his era cannot be compared to the Libya of this suffering and fighting era.

hakeem4:

who's the best democratic leader Nigeria ever had ?

Define democracy?

hakeem4:
He was one of the best African leaders Africa ever had

With the likes of Thomas sankara, obafemi awolowo, Patrice lumumba, nelson mandela kwame Nkrumah, murtala Mohammed, olusegun obasanjo, Rawlings

You must be joking,please respect the late Pan Africans,remove obasanjo from that list.

http://www.sundaymail.co.zw/libyans-regret-miss-life-under-gaddafi/

Five years on from Britain’s ‘ill conceived’ military intervention to dispose of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, ordinary people in Libya say life was better under the European labelled despot than the anarchy and threat of ISIS in the country today. Crippled by power black-outs, a five-fold increase in the cost of food, salaries unpaid for months and the threat of terror, citizens who took up arms against Gaddafi now say their quality of life was better under the feared dictator.

They claim his execution has led to a power vacuum that has created ‘six million little Gaddafis’ and they no longer feel safe to leave their homes after dark.

Amid the chaos and lack of security, 8 000 African migrants a day cross the border into Libya and live along its coastline waiting to cross the Mediterranean to Europe.

“I joined the revolution in the first days and fought against Gaddafi,” former revolutionary fighter Mohammed, 31, said from the southern city of Murzuq.

“Before 2011, I hated Gaddafi more than anyone. But now, life is much, much harder, and I have become his biggest fan.”
Taxi driver Mahmoud added, “Before Libya was much better.”

Oil worker Haroun, 41, said, “Getting rid of Gaddafi was clearly a mistake because we weren’t ready for democracy and we needed support from the international community, which just wasn’t there.”

Activist Fadiel added, “It should be better than Gaddafi’s time now but, because of the chaos and everyone fighting each other, it’s just a mess.”

Their comments echo the findings of influential British politicians who have condemned former Prime Minister David Cameron’s ‘chaotic’ 2011 intervention in Libya.

In a devastating verdict, the House of Commons foreign affairs committee this week savaged former prime minister David Cameron’s judgement in rushing to war – and said the intervention was based on ‘erroneous assumptions’.

An international coalition led by Britain and France launched strikes against Gaddafi’s forces in March 2011 after the regime threatened to attack the rebel-held city of Benghazi.

Cameron claimed the intervention was necessary to prevent a massacre of civilians, but the new report says that, despite appalling human rights abuses over 40 years, Gaddafi had no record of large-scale attacks on Libyan civilians.

However, the cross-party committee accused the Conservative of ignoring military chiefs and a lack of reliable intelligence to pursue an ‘opportunistic policy of regime change’ in Libya.

It says Cameron gave little thought to how Libya would fare following the removal of Gaddafi, setting the scene for the country’s descent into chaos.

Libyans today confirmed to the politicians’ findings as they have described their daily battles to survive.
Ordinary people now face daily electricity cuts of up to nine hours, a serious cash crisis, which prevents them from accessing their salaries, sky high prices for essential goods and shortages of medical supplies.

Widespread corruption has also prompted the black-market rate for foreign currency to triple against the increasingly worthless Libyan dinar.

Nuri, 34, a businessman from Tripoli added, “It’s not so much about being pro-Gaddafi because he was a crazy leader who was actually quite embarrassing internationally.

“It’s just that people’s lives are so difficult now compared to under Gaddafi.”
The situation is so bad some Libyans, previously among the richest people in the Arab world, are considering fleeing the country on migrant boats to start a new life in Europe.

Medical student Salem, 26, from Tripoli, said, “We thought things would be better after the revolution, but they just keep getting worse and worse.

“Far more people have been killed since 2011 than during the revolution or under 42 years of Gaddafi’s rule combined.
“We never had these problems under Gaddafi.

“There was always money and electricity and, although people did not have large salaries, everything was cheap, so life was simple.

“Some of my friends have even taken the boat to Europe with the migrants because they feel there is no future for them here.
“I would like to escape this mess and study abroad but I have been waiting a year for a new passport and, even when I do get one, it will be hard to get a visa because all the embassies left in 2014.

“So now I feel like a prisoner in my own country. And I have started to hate my own country.”
An ex-pat British housewife, who moved to Libya with her Libyan husband 20 years ago, says it is no longer safe to go out at night.

Sara, 50, a mother-of-one said, “I used to walk home alone at midnight with no fear.
“But now I don’t like to go outside alone after dark. I don’t feel safe.”

As well as a lack of security, the very fabric of Libyan society has broken down with provinces, towns and tribes retreating into themselves.

“Libya died with Gaddafi,” Tebu Mohammed said.
“We are not a nation anymore. We have become just warring groups of tribes, towns and cities.
“Before, there was just one Gaddafi but now we have six million little Gaddafis.”

Successive post-revolutionary governments, parliaments and leaders have all failed to provide ordinary Libyans with basic security, let alone address their daily struggles.

“We have had seven governments since 2011 and what have they achieved?” asked Mahmoud.
“The only thing we can see is new dustbins because one of the early governments installed these new large bins across Tripoli.
“We still point to them and laugh, saying it’s the only achievement of the revolution.”

With two rival governments, a democratically-elected one now operating beyond its mandate in eastern Libya, and the UN-backed Government of National Accord (GNA) in Tripoli, some say Libya is already on the verge of partition.

“The country is already divided. We have two governments, two parliaments, two Central banks and two National Oil Companies,” said former Libyan diplomat Abdusalem, 48.

“The so-called revolution was lies, all lies. We Libyans did not even know what the word revolution meant. We had been sheltered under Gaddafi for 42 years.

“It was not Libya’s revolution, it was NATO’s revolution because they wanted to get rid of Gaddafi.’
Riots have broken out at banks as people are forced to queue for hours in the stifling heat at banks to withdraw a restricted amount of money.

Bank security guards shot and killed three people in a bank queue in May this year. The price of basic goods, including imports, have gone through the roof as shipping company insurers have classified Libya as a war zone.

And food subsidies have been cut.
Fadiel, from Ras Lanuf, said, “(Under the Gaddafi regime) You could buy 20 loaves with one dinar but now you can only buy five, and they are smaller.

“Cooking oil was subsidised under Gaddafi and cost 1,75 dinar per 1 litre but because of shortages, some businessmen buy it from warehouses and resell it for 5 Libyan dinar. Bread and oil are the most basic commodities.”

He added, “Hospitals are running out of basic medicines, for epilepsy and diabetes, and people are now buying them from private pharmacies at double their previous prices. And we are struggling to get our children vaccinated because of shortages, particularly in rural areas.”

As their dreams of a prosperous post-Gaddafi Libya lay in the dust, most people say now they only want peace.
One said, “I cannot see how there will be peace in this country for another 10 years, but peace and stability is all that ordinary Libyans want.”

Meanwhile, the United Nations special envoy to Libya has warned that there are some 235 000 migrants on the country’s shore’s preparing to make the dangerous Mediterranean Sea crossing to Italy.

In a stark warning at the escalation of Europe’s migrant crisis, UN envoy Martin Kobler said, “We have on our lists 235 000 migrants who are just waiting for a good opportunity to depart for Italy, and they will do it.”

In an interview with Italy’s La Stampa newspaper, Kobler called for greater international intervention to restore security in Libya. – MailOnline.

12,879 total views, 8 views today

ivandragon:



You are the one deceiving yourself.


What about countries like New Zealand, Chile, Ireland, Switzerland.

Why limit yourself to suffering rather than aspiring for better. Where would you rather live... In Putin's Russia or Trump's US?

Anyway, you sound like someone who grew up in a feudal household & does not understand what it truly means to have civil liberties.


Furthermore, the Libyan situation is compounded by ISIS & not primarily by Qaddafi's removal.

I repeat keep on dreaming, deceiving and deluding yourself ........

YOU keep repeating western rhetoric... leave It for those western countries that have electricity, water, school, jobs, security, etc to chant democracy and freedom........

What has Nigeria gained from being a democracy........

How did isis came about.......

Where was isis when gaddafi was around......

Even OBAMA said that isis came about from US invasion of IRAQ........

Do you know better than obama......

You are the one that said democracy is not about roads bridges hospitals and schools.......but freedom..........

Am just pointing out some countries that are not a democracy and are doing better than most democracies of the world to the extent that people in those democracies will rather live there than in their countries where they have total freedom............

Another fact is that Libya a country where 95% of its land mass is desert and it manage to feed it's people and export to other countries........

Libya in gaddafis Era is the most wealthiest and prosperous country in Africa and one of the wealthiest in the world..........

Africans.... INCLUDING YOU (spewing western rhetoric) will easily swap their so called democracy and freedom to live in these countries

And some note worthy countries that are not a democracy and are doing extremely better than all African democracies combined include............

UAE
BAHRAIN
KUWAIT
SAUDI
OMAN
QATAR

.......... ETC ETC ETC

Even your masters westerners in their millions live their democracies to live and work in those so called non democratic countries.............

hakeem4:
He was one of the best African leaders Africa ever had

With the likes of Thomas sankara, obafemi awolowo, Patrice lumumba, nelson mandela kwame Nkrumah, murtala Mohammed, olusegun obasanjo, Rawlings

when you are calling best leaders
don't ever mention awolowo or obasanjo

Pavarottii:

He was not killed by Obama, he was killed by the US govt. Obama was just used.

CHAI WHY YOU NOR GET SENSE LIKE THIS GADDAFI WAS MURDERED UNDER THE WATCHFUL EYES OF BARRACK HUSSAIN OBAMA, THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE ARMED FORCES AND YA HERE SAYING RUBBISH.

prospero5:
the guy above me. na wa ooo!

the story is about Gaddafi not USA.

but US orchestrated and sold weapons to the rebels to fight Gaddafi off Power

furrr:


I repeat keep on dreaming, deceiving and deluding yourself ........

YOU keep repeating western rhetoric... leave It for those western countries that have electricity, water, school, jobs, security, etc to chant democracy and freedom........

What has Nigeria gained from being a democracy........

How did isis came about.......

Where was isis when gaddafi was around......

Even OBAMA said that isis came about from US invasion of IRAQ........

Do you know better than obama......

You are the one that said democracy is not about roads bridges hospitals and schools.......but freedom..........

Am just pointing out some countries that are not a democracy and are doing better than most democracies of the world to the extent that people in those democracies will rather live there than in their countries where they have total freedom............

Another fact is that Libya a country where 95% of its land mass is desert and it manage to feed it's people and export to other countries........

Libya in gaddafis Era is the most wealthiest and prosperous country in Africa and one of the wealthiest in the world..........

Africans.... INCLUDING YOU (spewing western rhetoric) will easily swap their so called democracy and freedom to live in these countries

And some note worthy countries that are not a democracy and are doing extremely better than all African democracies combined include............

UAE
BAHRAIN
KUWAIT
SAUDI
OMAN
QATAR

.......... ETC ETC ETC

Even your masters westerners in their millions live their democracies to live and work in those so called non democratic countries.............

you are just ranting & trying to justify a position that falls flat in the face of reality.

I asked a simple question, would you rather live in Russia or America? would you rather live in Oman or UK?


you rant about western negative influences & yet you use the technology developed by them & you readily run to their countries when given the opportunity to do so.


ISIS became more radical following the aftermath of the Arab spring but has existed since early 2000s.

& the so called countries you mentioned, have you taken out time to study their political & religious systems? have you taken out time to study development outside their capital cities?

what is the population of Libya? about 6m & yet them have a bigger landmass & oil than Nigeria & as such a little goes a long way in such a country.

do you know what actually goes on in those countries? countries that place restrictions on social media & conventional news media?


look, you are free to deceive yourself about what you want, its your choice & right, but you cannot, in your ignorance, chose a preference for another person.


& yes, democracy is not about infrastructure, go & ready works of Mills, Locke, Rousseau & more contemporary works by Diamond, in fact google what 'democracy' is all about.

IJOBA2:
CHAI WHY YOU NOR GET SENSE LIKE THIS GADDAFI WAS MURDERED UNDER THE WATCHFUL EYES OF BARRACK HUSSAIN OBAMA, THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE ARMED FORCES AND YA HERE SAYING RUBBISH.

U know nothing about world politics. So I won't go into an argument or discussion with u. So u think d invading of Syria, Libya, Yemen by the US is all the instructions of Obama?

Don't quote me please. Until u get more deep knowledge of how the USA operates.

hakeem4:
He was one of the best African leaders Africa ever had

With the likes of Thomas sankara, obafemi awolowo, Patrice lumumba, nelson mandela kwame Nkrumah, murtala Mohammed, olusegun obasanjo, Rawlings

Which Obasanjo? d OBJ we no? My friend take ur time OBJ is not a leader he was n is still a dealer, he deals on Nigeria.

Late Pa Awo we can manage but OBJ no be leader.

Pavarottii:

U know nothing about world politics. So I won't go into an argument or discussion with u. So u think d invading of Syria, Libya, Yemen by the US is all the instructions of Obama?

Don't quote me please. Until u get more deep knowledge of how the USA operates.

WHO WAS THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF ARMED FORCES THEN

ivandragon:


Touche...

but sometimes freedom does have a high price. by the way, do you know the number of people that got 'missing' while he was the leader?

Everything has a price including the stability Libya enjoyed at the time.
Isil members weren't born after Ghaddafi, they just couldn't operate because of Ghaddafi s policies.
Do you honestly prefer a post Ghaddafi's Libya?

Connoisseur:


Everything has a price including the stability Libya enjoyed at the time.
Isil members weren't born after Ghaddafi, they just couldn't operate because of Ghaddafi s policies.
Do you honestly prefer a post Ghaddafi's Libya?

I agree with your submission.

but as a matter of fact, what happened in Libya was inevitable as soon as the leadership of Tunisia & Egypt fell as a result of the Arab spring, they were the ones really keeping fundamentalist in check, however, the US intervention in Libya was probably not well managed.


to answer your question directly, I would not prefer a post Libya Qaddafi. however, I grew up believing in liberties & as such would certainly not have been comfortable in Qaddafi's Libya.

I do however, understand your position perfectly...

that's what America n the west do
RIP Gaddafi

this should make frontpage

ivandragon:



I agree with your submission.

but as a matter of fact, what happened in Libya was inevitable as soon as the leadership of Tunisia & Egypt fell as a result of the Arab spring, they were the ones really keeping fundamentalist in check, however, the US intervention in Libya was probably not well managed.


to answer your question directly, I would not prefer a post Libya Qaddafi. however, I grew up believing in liberties & as such would certainly not have been comfortable in Qaddafi's Libya.

I do however, understand your position perfectly...

Without the intervention of the west, Ghaddafi would have defeated the uprising no doubt. In as much as I don't blame the west much for their actions, they were clearly watching out for their own, I blame our African leaders who couldn't see the end game. Especially Zuma and GEJ, without their support,the intervention wouldn't have been possible.

Connoisseur:


Without the intervention of the west, Ghaddafi would have defeated the uprising no doubt. In as much as I don't blame the west much for their actions, they were clearly watching out for their own, I blame our African leaders who couldn't see the end game. Especially Zuma and GEJ, without their support,the intervention wouldn't have been possible.

yes, Qaddafi might have held out, just like Assad is doing in Syria, but I think the instability would still have continued & turned into a Syria styled conflict (not as if its any better now anyway).

what could Zuma & GEJ do? hope you know that Qaddafi was not really trusted in Africa as his concept of pan Africanism was seen as an attempt to 'dominate' the continent following his less than successful efforts at pan Arabism...

GEJ had his hands full with Boko Haram. recall that he wanted to purchase military equipment which was turned down & frustrated by the US & allies.

the US rather wanted their 'boots' on the ground which GEJ did not subscribe to.

well, like I said, I see your point(s) even if I do not fully concur that about preferring skewered infrastructure to civil liberties...

Modsenemy:

Technically, His people didn't betray him . But was literally betrayed by his people under the influence of the imperialists (US)

According to facts, he was assasinated by an external body (I think France)

Libya will know no peace unless they ask for forgiveness

No forgiveness in the world will save Libya.

Had a friend who was there until even the war.
Qaddafi respects and values only his people, his policies barely favor visitors. But if your own government was the wiser they would've made your country better so immigrants will remain with their families in their respective countries. (that there is Qaddafi's belief and he takes it literal)
Rule of law was outstanding even towards his own son that fried to oust him but there was room for forgiveness in a national sense.

They'll never know peace now that external bodies are nibbling their resources and they're puppets to France, America and the rest muzzle nations. like my dear Nigeria is.

He held on well, if he had Russia and Germany behind him or he'd harnessed the power of uranium they would av left him alone.
Let them try master Kim of North Korea na. greedy people

ivandragon:


yes, Qaddafi might have held out, just like Assad is doing in Syria, but I think the instability would still have continued & turned into a Syria styled conflict (not as if its any better now anyway).

what could Zuma & GEJ do? hope you know that Qaddafi was not really trusted in Africa as his concept of pan Africanism was seen as an attempt to 'dominate' the continent following his less than successful efforts at pan Arabism...

GEJ had his hands full with Boko Haram. recall that he wanted to purchase military equipment which was turned down & frustrated by the US & allies.

the US rather wanted their 'boots' on the ground which GEJ did not subscribe to.

well, like I said, I see your point(s) even if I do not fully concur that about preferring skewered infrastructure to civil liberties...

Now we are just discussing our ideas, we agree on the same things.
Syria is the way it is because of the west. If not for the airdrop of weapons by US to the insurgents, much of Syria would still be intact and ISIS wouldn't have happened. The truth is democracy is not ideal for every region and people. Every one should find out what works for them. Trying to force democracy in the Arabs is an exercise in futility. Saudi Arabia is prosperous because of their system of government, introduce democracy and you have another Libya in your hands.

On another note, GEJ and Zuma could have resorted to diplomacy, remember Charles Taylor and OBJ; mission accomplished while defending the integrity of the nation

Connoisseur:


Now we are just discussing our ideas, we agree on the same things.
Syria is the way it is because of the west. If not for the airdrop of weapons by US to the insurgents, much of Syria would still be intact and ISIS wouldn't have happened. The truth is democracy is not ideal for every region and people. Every one should find out what works for them. Trying to force democracy in the Arabs is an exercise in futility. Saudi Arabia is prosperous because of their system of government, introduce democracy and you have another Libya in your hands.

On another note, GEJ and Zuma could have resorted to diplomacy, remember Charles Taylor and OBJ; mission accomplished while defending the integrity of the nation

I beg to differ on Syria.

my difference is not that Syria is the way it is because of the US, but that what happened (is happening) had been a long time coming.

Russia, Turkey, China & even Iran are also involved in that conflict & have their own interests to protect.

you know that the House of Saud is supported by the US, & yet Saudi Arabia is not a democracy... also note that Ben Ali & Mubarak where western allies, but removed by their own people who wanted greater freedoms.

history is also replete with other nations that have at various times, dominated 'civilization'... from the Persians to the Roman empires, Russian to British... it is simply the turn of the US to try to influence world events. what is happening now is just history repeating itself.

I humbly believe what we are experiencing now is a clash of civilizations (ala S. Huntington). the world is ripe for another dominant power to step up & dethrone the US, but the US won't bow out without a fight.


on the matter of GEJ & co. not intervening, I said GEJ had his hands full, no way he was going to find time to harbour Qaddafi, I can't say for Zuma though.

Qaddafi also had the option of leaving Libya, but he chose to stay & fight.

ivandragon:



I beg to differ on Syria.

my difference is not that Syria is the way it is because of the US, but that what happened (is happening) had been a long time coming.

Russia, Turkey, China & even Iran are also involved in that conflict & have their own interests to protect.

you know that the House of Saud is supported by the US, & yet Saudi Arabia is not a democracy... also note that Ben Ali & Mubarak where western allies, but removed by their own people who wanted greater freedoms.

history is also replete with other nations that have at various times, dominated 'civilization'... from the Persians to the Roman empires, Russian to British... it is simply the turn of the US to try to influence world events. what is happening now is just history repeating itself.

I humbly believe what we are experiencing now is a clash of civilizations (ala S. Huntington). the world is ripe for another dominant power to step up & dethrone the US, but the US won't bow out without a fight.


on the matter of GEJ & co. not intervening, I said GEJ had his hands full, no way he was going to find time to harbour Qaddafi, I can't say for Zuma though.

Qaddafi also had the option of leaving Libya, but he chose to stay & fight.

On the bolded, I make bold to say that Syria is the way it is because of the west. It has been a long time coming bit done one ignited that fire. Every country has its own share of opposition and insurgents, the only difference is when the opposition is supported by a 'stronger' outside influence and they overwhelm the country. Take Nigeria for instance, Biafra had been 'long time coming'because no stronger outside influence has decided to intervene. Supply IPOB with enough weapons and military training and you'd notice a chain reaction that would definitely overwhelm Nigeria. So my brother, the west is totally to blame for the situation in Syria.

On GEJ having his hands full, that's not a reasonable excuse. The truth is nothing in GEJ's life prepared him for the kind of decisions he would be making as a president. Coupled with the fact that he had kleptomaniacs as advicers. So yes,he had his hands full of nothing. He couldn't have known the best decision to make because he couldn't reason that far ahead. That singular decision emboldened boko haram the more.
Ghaddafi couldn't have left Libya without a solid guarantee of safety. Heck even GEJ didn't relinquish power without a safety guarantee

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Connoisseur:


On the bolded, I make bold to say that Syria is the way it is because of the west. It has been a long time coming bit done one ignited that fire. Every country has its own share of opposition and insurgents, the only difference is when the opposition is supported by a 'stronger' outside influence and they overwhelm the country. Take Nigeria for instance, Biafra had been 'long time coming'because no stronger outside influence has decided to intervene. Supply IPOB with enough weapons and military training and you'd notice a chain reaction that would definitely overwhelm Nigeria. So my brother, the west is totally to blame for the situation in Syria.

On GEJ having his hands full, that's not a reasonable excuse. The truth is nothing in GEJ's life prepared him for the kind of decisions he would be making as a president. Coupled with the fact that he had kleptomaniacs as advicers. So yes,he had his hands full of nothing. He couldn't have known the best decision to make because he couldn't reason that far ahead. That singular decision emboldened boko haram the more.
Ghaddafi couldn't have left Libya without a solid guarantee of safety. Heck even GEJ didn't relinquish power without a safety guarantee

you keep talking about western influence in Syria, what about Russian, Chinese, Iranian & Turkish influences.

on GEJ, you expected him to pay greater attention to the Libyan crisis at the time BH was seriously becoming a threat?

besides, Qaddafi refused to leave Libya, so what else could GEJ have done? threaten the west with embargoes?

Phreshmann12:
Thats true...........but why was he killed again??

POLITICS!

correctguy101:

No forgiveness in the world will save Libya.

Had a friend who was there until even the war.
Qaddafi respects and values only his people, his policies barely favor visitors. But if your own government was the wiser they would've made your country better so immigrants will remain with their families in their respective countries. (that there is Qaddafi's belief and he takes it literal)
Rule of law was outstanding even towards his own son that fried to oust him but there was room for forgiveness in a national sense.

They'll never know peace now that external bodies are nibbling their resources and they're puppets to France, America and the rest muzzle nations. like my dear Nigeria is.

He held on well, if he had Russia and Germany behind him or he'd harnessed the power of uranium they would av left him alone.
Let them try master Kim of North Korea na. greedy people

I've been reading and following this thread, and am surprised at many people's position on this issue.

I can't believe you're praising and even calling Kim 'master'?

ivandragon:



you keep talking about western influence in Syria, what about Russian, Chinese, Iranian & Turkish influences.

on GEJ, you expected him to pay greater attention to the Libyan crisis at the time BH was seriously becoming a threat?

besides, Qaddafi refused to leave Libya, so what else could GEJ have done? threaten the west with embargoes?

All the Russia, China, Iran and Turkish influences you keep mentioning were all in a bid to counter the west.
Ghaddafi refused to leave Libya because it was a one way street leading to death. Assuming GEJ and Zuma had the guts, there were several things they could have done. The average Libyan wanted regime change but their sponsors wanted death do Ghaddafi and his policies

henryobinna:
I've been reading and following this thread, and am surprised at many people's position on this issue.

I can't believe you're praising and even calling Kim 'master'?

I can't possibly praise that monster. Calling him master is just the way he's called.

Kim can never be compared to Muamar Qaddafi.

Sorry if my post appears misleading, I was just pointing at the madman Kim as someone the muzzle flexing nations won't dare to mess with for he's not only unstable, he's a. confirmed lunatic.

Anytime I remember Qaddaf's Libya, I just dey vex for France and America.

Tho I blame Qaddafi for some things but living in Nigeria I know he's a saint, in fact an angel to the Libyan people.

Connoisseur:


All the Russia, China, Iran and Turkish influences you keep mentioning were all in a bid to counter the west.
Ghaddafi refused to leave Libya because it was a one way street leading to death. Assuming GEJ and Zuma had the guts, there were several things they could have done. The average Libyan wanted regime change but their sponsors wanted death do Ghaddafi and his policies

Correct.

That's the only reason I blame Qaddafi. Staying too long in the seat of power knowing he has too many enemies.
He could av just left the seat literally and be influencing the government behind the curtains, that way the Libya he built with his own hands will last till his natural death.

correctguy101:

I can't possibly praise that monster. Calling him master is just the way he's called.

Kim can never be compared to Muamar Qaddafi.

Sorry if my post appears misleading, I was just pointing at the madman Kim as someone the muzzle flexing nations won't dare to mess with for he's not only unstable, he's a. confirmed lunatic.

Anytime I remember Qaddaf's Libya, I just dey vex for France and America.

Tho I blame Qaddafi for some things but living in Nigeria I know he's a saint, in fact an angel to the Libyan people.

I believe the reason why the USA is staying away from Kim is because of nuclear weapons at his disposal, not because he can take down the USA with them, no, not a dent. but he'll wreck havock with them, south Korea a USA ally would suffer real bad and many other issues.

Yes Gadaffi is better than most our preaidents past and present... but I won't trade freedom for anything.

Connoisseur:


All the Russia, China, Iran and Turkish influences you keep mentioning were all in a bid to counter the west.
Ghaddafi refused to leave Libya because it was a one way street leading to death. Assuming GEJ and Zuma had the guts, there were several things they could have done. The average Libyan wanted regime change but their sponsors wanted death do Ghaddafi and his policies

The other countries are relevant because I am trying to make you understand that what is happening in Libya/Syria today is simply a struggle for global influence which has always been in existence...


for instance, we usually hear about the Vietnam war with America, but people forget that the French invaded Vietnam before the Americans.

same case with Afghanistan, the Russians invaded Afghanistan first, before the US got involved.

so its a cycle, a constant struggle...

& I still fail to see what GEJ could have really done about Qaddafi.

hakeem4:
He was one of the best African leaders Africa ever had

With the likes of Thomas sankara, obafemi awolowo, Patrice lumumba, nelson mandela kwame Nkrumah, murtala Mohammed, olusegun obasanjo, Rawlings

Did Awo lead an African nation?