The NT states that if your husband/wife is not a Christian and wants to leave you, let him/her go. That seems divorce to me.

The word of God further states the cause of fornication as an exception to the rule. That sound like divorce.

Third, you do not become one flesh with your wife only, but also with the harlot, of course only if you lie down with the latter. This seems to link the 'one flesh' thing to intimacy rather than to marriage/wedding.

So I am not sure I understand and I would like to hear what some of you think.

Malachi 2:16 says"i hate divorce says d lord God of isreal.. Mattew 19:3 some pharisees came2him2 test him dey asked,is it lawful4a man2 divorce is wife4any reason? vs5:for dis reason a man wl leave his fathers house and be united wit wife and 2wl becom one flesh vs 9:i tell u dat anyone who divorces his wife except for marital unfaithfulness,and marries another woman commits adultery...finally 1cort 7:10 says to d married i give this command a wife must nt separate from her husband.but if she does,she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled2ha husband.and a husband must not divorce his wife...i think u shldv ur ans by now.Christianity permits divorce ONLY subject2 conditions...but lukn at all dis bible verses. It doesnt rily like divorce..God hates divorce.he wld rather u try working things out dan gtn separated thanks..

the bible specifies particular situations whereby divorce is permitted otherwise it discourages it.

Yes Gid hates divorce or putting away, he frowns at it except for the issue or marital infidelity.....lets beware when changing our garment of singles to that of married

See also Divorce: what are your views?

yes the only biblical reason for divorce should be adultery

God permits divorce for only the reason of adultery in which case you can remarry, but because of the hardness of the heart of man he allows you to divorce (matthew 19: 8-9) for any reason you so chose, only don't remarry!!!

Yes, God actually hate's divorce. The only scriptural ground for divorce is adultery, but if the spouse choses to forgive the other spouse in question, then they can still live together it's a matter of personal choice, but if not, he/she can seek for a divorce...after that, he/she is then free to re-marry. NOTE: they are only free to re-marry when they have divorced not when they are seperated..there's difference.

" if the center can not hold, things will fall apart"
many people make a mistake of marrying another person's wife and husbands for all the wrong reasons
just to find out in the middle of their marriage that; instead bearing the fruits of love and happiness
they are bearing fruits of violence,hatred. and disrespect. Should they be allowed a divorce or should they be left
to live in the pit they dug for themselves?

Apart from Adultery and fornication, there are other reasons people can divorce. If a couple didn't seek Divine guardians b4 marriage and eventually marry for all the wrong reasons, natural forces will come pulling them apart and the only one place to hide will be a divorce and sometime it could be Naaaaasty as Hellll

The word of God is freedom and not boundage.

But it all depend on the people involved.

To dem dat has ear ... let dem hia

i think God allows divorces
if the one of the spouse commits adultery, u can divorce them
thats the only time, god allows divorce....

There are actually no grounds for divorce, Biblically.

I believe every Christian bases their justification of divorce on Matt 5:32.  But a proper scrutiny of that text shows that Jesus was actually not justifying divorce, but was simply against adultery. 

"But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."  (Matt 5:32, KJV)

"But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."  (Matt 5:32, RSV)

Those underlined words are what confuse people, thereby making them interprete the verse completely out of context.

Before I try explaining what Jesus meant here, note that adultery has always been frowned upon, and divorce allowed even right from the days of Moses (Deut 24:1); and Jesus himself acknowledged that in verse 31 of that text.

But in verse 32, it does seem like Jesus was 'permitting' divorce (not commanding it though) if one partner is caught in the act of adultery.  But was he really?  We'll find out now.

Since Jesus himself frowns on adultery (Matt 5:27-28), it therefore implies that his message actually is (paraphrasing now):

"Every one who divorces his wife, makes her an adulteress and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.  You only become innocent of this offense (. . of making someone else commit sin), if and only if it was on the grounds of adultery that you divorced her, afterall, she was already committing the sin itself before you left her anyway."

Here, Jesus is saying that the only situation in which divorce and remarriage are possible, without breaking the seventh commandment, is when it has already been broken by some serious sexual sin.  Clearly, he was against adultery, and adultery alone, and was in no way advocating divorce.

This is a correction to the widely misinterpreted statement of Jesus that "one is free to divorce if one finds one's partner guilty of adultery".  No, this is not what Jesus was saying.  If Jesus actually meant this, then he would be contradicting himself in Mark 10:2-6,9:

"And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.  And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?  And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.  And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.  But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. . . What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

The two links below explain my position better.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Family/Marriage/grounds.htm
http://www.pbcc.org/sermons/vanderet/1090.html

I am open to corrections anyway.

windywendy:

@ Goodguy, what Jesus said is clear. He is neither justifying adultery nor divorce. Look at the NIV version of Matt.5:31:

31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'[f] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

It's clear. Anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adultress. I mean think about it this way, if she wasn't unfaithful maritally, then she wasn't an adultress in the first place. But if she was already unfaithful maritally (i.e was already sleeping with another man while married to the husband) she was already an adultress. So it's not the divorce that makes her an adultress because she already is . So if the husband divorces her, he does not make her an adultress. I believe that's why Jesus made the exception in that passage.

Exactly! Therefore, that passage does not talk about Jesus 'permitting' divorce, not even on the grounds of adultery. But that the man himself is totally free of sin if he divorces her on that basis, since it was regarded a sin to divorce in the first place so far it wasn't due to some illicit affairs by the other party.

Simply, it's like this:

"You're free of guilt if the basis of your divorce is on adultery. But I am not saying you should divorce your wife if she's an adulteress", Jesus said.

Thanks to you both windywendy and goodguy for your inputs - added to my understanding.

The whole argument started here actually, but I decided to move my post here to avoid derailing the thread.

You're welcome by the way.

All glory be to God.

@goodguy

well said

Hmmm, some interesting posts so far.

I'll start by stating my position, thereby subjecting it to scrutiny.

The only biblical reason for divorce is adultery.
The only biblical reason for remarriage is death.

God bless

We have to always compare scripture with scripture.
goodguy,the Holy Spirit through you has done a good job for bringing those scriptures to light.
let me just add this little addendum.

Adultery is a sin and so is fornication.
Both sins are forgiveable by Christ and so should be forgiveable by us humans.
A repentant adulterer should be forgiven by the spouse.

A man or woman who bases his divorce on adultery despite the remorsefulness of his/her spouse perhaps has been looking to get out of the marriage in the first place.

Personally,I would be terrified to take back a spouse who has committed adultery because of AIDS,Syphyllis,HepB and C and other diseases and not because it is biblical grounds for divorce.

We, as Christians ought to guard our marriages jealously by that I mean fulfilling the physical and emotional needs of our spouses so as not to give the devil any chances.
The divorce rate in Christiandom is almost same as that of unbelievers and it ought not be so.

Oh dear,I'm beginning to sound like a marriage counsellor!!!

@babyosisi

babyosisi:

Oh dear,I'm beginning to sound like a marriage counsellor!!!

I think you could make a good Marriage Counsellor on NL.
besides, i usually take a deep breath especially when peeps begin their sentences with:

We have to always compare scripture with scripture.

I remember as a kid, one of our chaplains use to have such a line in his introduction. And whenever he begins, we know say 'e don finish for the whole day' coz its only by the grace of God that the sermon will come to an end.

its all good!!

babyosisi:

Personally,I would be terrified to take back a spouse who has committed adultery because of AIDS,Syphyllis,HepB and C and other diseases and not because it is biblical grounds for divorce.

Exactly as I stated on the other thread!  I can only seperate from my wife (not necessarily divorce) because I don't want her to transfer diseases to me (if at all she's got any), and not because I cannot forgive her.

That was a great post you made there by the way.

goodguy,

I like your argument, it really opened my understanding of this issue as well. I had always thought a woman can divorce her husband if HE was being unfaithful to her. I hate divorce as well.

However, what about women and men who are in abusive relationships? What if they are being burned, whipped and beaten on a daily basis and they and their children live their lives in fear of death?

In Trinidad we have astonishingly high incidents of domestic violence. Some leading to murder/suicides.

Sociologists have attributed this to ethnicity. Since all of the are east indians, and most east indians believe in reincarnation, therefore they value present life less.

However it happens with "christian" couples as well to a lesser extent.

Apart from the fact that the man may be born again or not, and that he should be treating his wife as he would himself,
the burning issue is the woman. There is nothing to "work out". The man is a power crazed maniac and takes out his frustrations on her, while being normal to the outside world and the church while she suffers in silence.

Should she just "pray" while he continues to assault her? What would you advise her to do in such a case?

They can stop living together, but should not divorce.

One may argue that seperation is the same thing as divorce, but Deut 24, and indeed, Jesus' reference in Matt 5:31 shows that divorce involves some processes (writing a bill of divorce and all that), as opposed to seperation, which may even be consentual without the need for any papers.  Actually, it should be consentual, but if the husband disagrees, probably due to the pleasure he gains from bashing and bruising his wife, the matter should be resolved in the court.  Even then, the issue of divorce should not come up.  I believe no lawyer has any right to divorce people (especially if he's a Christian), because Jesus said, ". . . let no man put asunder".

So when they're seperated, they are still husband and wife, legally, spiritually, and otherwise, but are not just living together.

An example is that of Chris Okotie and his wife.  They are not divorced, but they do not live together anymore, though they still get in touch with each very often.

Perhaps, this process may make the man come back to his senses as time goes on, and eventually, they can start living together peacefully once more as man and wife.

This is just what I think.  Anyone with something better??

Abusive relationships, mmmmmm that's a hard one.

A lot of people pull this one out of the bag to somehow justify divorce. That's not to say that in many cases it's not a real issue.

First off, I would say that marriages based on the proper foundation (Christ and maturity in Him) should rarely have this problem.

Where it does arise, I would counsel seperation and all the usual Christian help. This is assuming the couple are practising Christians.

I'm against secular courts being involved, as there imperatives are often at odds with Christian mores. Let's leave the courts to deal with non-Christian marriages. For the most part non-believers have a completely different concept of marriage anyway.

Assault/Battery or abuse of any kind is not adultery, which I believe is the only possible reason for divorce. There's mercy, forgiveness and grace to help. That should be the starting point.

I am not in the habit of picking on individuals, so i won't. But could someone please explain to me why a man would be permanently seperated from his wife (i.e not circumstancially enforced or only temporarily) if there is not a problem of some sort?

And finally, although I see adultery as the only reason for divorce, I don't say it has to lead to divorce. The crux is forgiveness. As God constantly forgave adulterous Israel and Christ is constantly sanctifying his Church/Bride, divorce (again except in an extreme inverterate case) reeks of unforgiveness. It's why the decision to divorce if taken, does not mean you can re-marry. What you are saying is either you are not willing to forgive and happy to live alone, or this persons infidelity is so unyielding that its better for you to live alone.

Thoughts please brethren.

God bless

TV01:

I am not in the habit of picking on individuals, so i won't. But could someone please explain to me why a man would be permanently seperated from his wife (i.e not circumstancially enforced or only temporarily) if there is not a problem of some sort?

I assume you're referring to Okotie here.  TayoD should be able to clear this up.  He probably knows more about Okotie than the rest of us here.  His submission here actually shows they are divorced, but not due to any conflicts.  I take back the instance I cited earlier.

TV01:

I see adultery as the only reason for divorce

If the basis of your conclusion is on Matt 5:32, I'm afraid that text states otherwise.  Things we need to note first in order to understand that scripture itself are:

* God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16), so it's logical to conclude that it is a sin.

* Adultery is a sin. (Exodus 20:14)

* Divorce based on the grounds of adultery makes one free of the two sins (the sin of divorce itself and the sin of making someone else commit adultery) that one would normally have been guilty of if the divorce was due to some other reasons.(Matthew 5:32)

From this, we can see that adultery is not a reason for divorce, at least, that's not what Jesus was saying.  But rather, if you divorce your spouse based on that ground, then you're free of the two sins listed above.

TV01:

The crux is forgiveness. As God constantly forgave adulterous Israel and Christ is constantly sanctifying his Church/Bride, divorce (again except in an extreme inverterate case) reeks of unforgiveness. It's why the decision to divorce if taken, does not mean you can re-marry. What you are saying is either you are not willing to forgive and happy to live alone, or this persons infidelity is so unyielding that its better for you to live alone.

Thoughts please brethren.

God bless

I agree.  God bless too.

[i]quote author=goodguy link=topic=3953.msg815515#msg815515 date=1168692594]
They can stop living together, but should not divorce.

One may argue that seperation is the same thing as divorce, but Deut 24, and indeed, Jesus' reference in Matt 5:31 shows that divorce involves some processes (writing a bill of divorce and all that), as opposed to seperation, which may even be consentual without the need for any papers.  Actually, it should be consentual, but if the husband disagrees, probably due to the pleasure he gains from bashing and bruising his wife, the matter should be resolved in the court.  Even then, the issue of divorce should not come up.  I believe no lawyer has any right to divorce people (especially if he's a Christian), because Jesus said, ". . . let no man put asunder".

So when they're seperated, they are still husband and wife, legally, spiritually, and otherwise, but are not just living together.

An example is that of Chris Okotie and his wife.  They are not divorced, but they do not live together anymore, though they still get in touch with each very often.

Perhaps, this process may make the man come back to his senses as time goes on, and eventually, they can start living together peacefully once more as man and wife.

This is just what I think.  Anyone with something better??
[quote][/quote][/i]
my brother, goodguy,

I was in an abusive relationship as a young christian, I LEFT!!!! God does not hate me. I am NOT GOING BACK!!! Just hope no member of your family is in a 'christian' situation where he/she and child/ren are being abused serially.

We as christians fool ourselves that so long as we are married in church or under a man/woman of God, then it is God that joined us together. Lies, O! lies. Sometimes, we join ourselves together and hope that God will hold it togeter for us. It wouldn't work.

When God actually joins you, peace, love and harmony will reign; when He doesn't it wouldn't work!!! If you like stay there and be separated and let your life pass you by. Me, I'm not that holy. I'm gone! I might have made a mistake in allowing the pressure of being 'un-married' push me into the wrong decision but I'm sure as day and night not going to remain in it for my family to come and carry my corpse and that of my child. Ig'asikwa!!!

You holy ones can be separated till Jesus comes; God bless your efforts

enugu, no be fight, abeg, calm down.

Please note that I did not say God hates those that divorce, I only stated what was written in the scriptures - God hates the act of divorce.

I understand your situation, and I really do feel your pain.

That said, I'll have to agree with TV01 when he said, marriages based on the proper foundation (Christ and maturity in Him) should rarely have this problem; and I'm glad you acknowledge this.  But if at all they have, it shouldn't be beyond resolution, for as long as the foundation of the marriage is on Christ himself.

Obviously, and as you've also said yourself, you made a wrong decision by jumping into something you weren't prepared for, and didn't have God's consent.

The best you could do in your situation is what you already did.

God bless your efforts too.

Good there was this woman with her mad husband.
when ever the fight he will say he will kill her kids.
Ones he almost threw the baby out of the window. The police were able to save the baby.
The woman forgave the man and let him back.
The next fight came and he threw the baby out of the window . this time the police could not save it. Baby dead.
If a woman finds out the husband is abusing the kids sexually?
let no one talk abou fgorgiving the man and taking him back.

Goodguy,

Ok I have a question.

In the Bible marriage in the eyes of the community meant exchange of dowry for woman.  

So a woman could be bought for about 4 goat, 2 sheep, a couple lamb skins and a bag of wheat, maybe toss in 2 bottles of honey to seal de deal.  SOLD!

The Nigerian traditional wedding somewhat imitates this.

However the Jewish marriage in the eyes of God was a separate ceremony, following by a wedding celebration.

So logically, divorce (dissolving the marriage) legally would be the return of said dowry for breach of contract.

The parallel of that in today's society would be the signing of the affidavit that says you are married so you now share your earthly possessions, and "divorce papers" from a lawyer saying that you are no longer LEGALLY (secularly) married.

But that doesn't cover the marriage ceremony in the eyes of God.

My question is then, how do you divorce in the eyes of God?  How do you reverse a spiritual committment in God's sight?

I know that the bible talks about "putting away" your wife, but does "putting away" mean divorce?

Is there such a thing in the eyes of God then, as divorce? Unless the other party is dead?

So, if I am in an abusive marriage, and I go to my lawyer for a "divorce", it means then that I am legally divorced, but not spiritually divorced from him?

And if I have another man I commit fornication. So I have to stay chaste.  Hmmm

Marriage in the eyes of God is a serious matter.

In God's eyes there is no such thing as divorce, except by death.

In the eyes of the Roman Catholic church.

goodguy:


That said, I'll have to agree with TV01 when he said, [b]marriages based on the proper foundation (Christ and maturity in Him) should rarely have this problem[/b

Yup, I agree with that too.  I fear for people who are not born again believers that get married.  Somewhere along the line they cannot deal with their problems, or their true colours show up in the marriage and then wahala start.

It's not that issues wont arise in a christian marriage but born again christians are blessed to have the infilling of the spirit to help them during difficult situations before and during their marriage.

A ha as in carry your cross and pray.
God helps those that help themselves.
There is more to life than just praying

goodguy:

I assume you're referring to Okotie here.  TayoD should be able to clear this up.  He probably knows more about Okotie than the rest of us here.  His submission here actually shows they are divorced, but not due to any conflicts.  I take back the instance I cited earlier.

Hi goodguy, thanks for the link to TayoD's earlier submission. I wasn't actually a member back then so missed this one. Let me start by saying this, I really like TayoD. My prime impetus for establishing relationships is sensing a love of God. And while I may be wrong, I sense that in Bro' TayoD, and that's sufficient for me.

TayoD and I have been having this on/off discussion about church structure (I'm too technologically backward to append a link ). With all due respect, I feel the scripture shows TayoD's position here is seriously flawed and smacks of an attemt to shoehorn scripture into tradition. To render acceptable an unacceptable situation. It's not the first time I've seen TayoD, hold a position by proxy (i.e the MOG said) even if it's contrary to scripture. Let me explain.

A bishop is no different from a pastor, a shepherd or an elder. They are all different renderings of the same role. I have shown this from scripture severally and specifically in the thread "Church Structure & Sole Authority Pastors". Pertinent to note the mandate assumed by many a "pastor" in Nigerian churches is no where to be found in scripture and a man-made construct. If anyone feels otherwise, I only ask that they show it from scripture. I am more than happy to admit and repent of any error on my part.

The alluded to sacrifice of his marriage to serve His Lord is fleshly will-worship, falsely validated by a wanton warping of scripture. The God that hates divorce will not demand or use it as a means to glorify His name. My position holds, which is one I've mentioned severally. family first and then church. Can God not raise someone else up? Saul made a hash of it and God did not hesitate to move him on. Get over yourselves. Failure to hold your family together disqualifies you from pastoring (assuming a bishopric). Even if they had not divorced and agreed a permanent seperation, that would be to make a mockery of the spirit, essence and intent of marriage. I can honestly say I don't think I've seen a more blatant disregard of a biblical imperative. And the cack-handed attempt to pass it off as valiant sacrifice. Slap me silly with a salty piece of cod why don't you? Utter tosh!

TayoD, I must say I'm surprised. I've noticed your campaign against the other pastor Chris, and to be honest, I feel you have made valid points, but it seems that you are suffering from the same blind spot his followers are.

goodguy:

If the basis of your conclusion is on Matt 5:32, I'm afraid that text states otherwise.  Things we need to note first in order to understand that scripture itself are:

* God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16), so it's logical to conclude that it is a sin.

* Adultery is a sin. (Exodus 20:14)

* Divorce based on the grounds of adultery makes one free of the two sins (the sin of divorce itself and the sin of making someone else commit adultery) that one would normally have been guilty of if the divorce was due to some other reasons.(Matthew 5:32)

From this, we can see that adultery is not a reason for divorce, at least, that's not what Jesus was saying.  But rather, if you divorce your spouse based on that ground, then you're free of the two sins listed above.

Hmmm. First of all, please re-read what you wrote above. Ae you saying adultery is not a reason for divorce, but if you do it on that basis you haven't sinned? I can't see the reasoning behind that. Could I ask you to clarify or illustrate please  .

I thnk we all know that a full reading of all related scripture (and the enduement of the Holy Spirit) is necessary to determine the Lords heart on a matter. So no my position is not based solely on Matthew 5:32. I would refer also to Matthew19:9 & Mark 10:11. Adultery is covenant breaking and the wronged party is within their rights to declare abrogation. For their many harlotries, God had every right to cast away Israel His firstborn and backsliding Judah. But longsuffering and divine love meant mercy triumphed over judgement.

My point is that sexual immorality is a reason for divorce, as it absolves you from sin if the offending party remarries. Said sin being on the offender and whoever marries them. I'm not sure that divorce per se is a sin, but if you divorce for any but the one reason and one/both of you re-marry, then one/both of you are committing adultery which is. And the fault for the adultery of the one divorced is place at the feet of the one who unsripturally divorces them.

So until someone can show otherwise, my position remains. Divorce is permissable only in the case of adultery, and remarriage only in the case of death. Not for battery, not for ministry and not for the myriad other reasons that have crept in. And I'm talking Christendom here.

Please don't think me hard hearted. I have divorce in my immediate family. I've seen it live and direct. The pain and aftershock seem unrelenting and there are no winners. Marriage and divorce have a way of exposing people. Showing if they say they do, but really don't. If they say they are but truly aren't. Is there anything God can't do?

I'm here.

God bless