uvalued:


to make our discussion more enlightened, this i wish to inow of you..which of this do you subscribe to

a. man consist of spirit, soul and body

or

b. man consist of body and soul.

I subscribe to none of the above.
Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME A LIVING SOUL."
According to the Bible, man became a living soul (not given a soul) through the breath of God in him.
And what happens when that breath is no longer there? Genesis 3:19b "for out of it (ground/dust: see Gen 2:7) wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return"
That's the fate of man. The dead returns to dust, until the resurrection at Jesus second coming.
So my take is that man is nothing but dust, a living soul as long as he breaths.

uvalued:

you are only seeing one side of the picture..pray tell me which soul was converted in this scenarious
acts 10 when cornelius spoke with tongues or the ephesians in acts 19 after paul laid his hands on them? so you see its not just for evangelism.

The gift of speaking with new languages is a tool for evangelism. At least, that's what 1 Cor. 14:22a is telling us. Cornelius (who was an officer over 100 soldiers) and the 12 men who were baptised of John, would no doubt, spread the gospel through the manifestation of that gift.

otr1:

I subscribe to none of the above.
Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME A LIVING SOUL."
According to the Bible, man became a living soul (not given a soul) through the breath of God in him.
And what happens when that breath is no longer there? Genesis 3:19b "for out of it (ground/dust: see Gen 2:7) wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return"
That's the fate of man. The dead returns to dust, until the resurrection at Jesus second coming.
So my take is that man is nothing but dust, a living soul as long as he breaths.

in summary you subscribe to B. soul in the body theology... good.

please have you ever heard the spirit prays...

otr1:

We all know the purpose of God for the event of Pentecost and those that follow; to preach the Word to unbelievers in their own very languages and dialects.
If I may ask you, of what purpose is to God for giving you the "gift" to speak an extinct language?
I hope you know why Paul prohibits speaking any unknown language in gathering if it won't be interpreted? And don't tell me "he speaketh unto God", for that's not the purpose of the gift.
I'm assuming what people call "speaking in tongue" today is a language. But we both know you can't utter three sentences in that your "language". It has always been a repetition of 2 to 3 sounds.

purpose you say...here

1cor 14:
2  For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

and by the way, as in church, when the word is read from the scripture, its a form of prophecy but you reading the word and declaring same over yourself is also prophecy; thus showing two fold usage. in like manner, tongues can be used for evangelism as in acts 2 but can be used for personal edification as staed in 1 cor 14:4.

yes in gathering i agree if there is no interpretation but he NEVER forbade it outrightly but in my privacy i can speak tongues to edification which am a witness.

otr1:

Yes, you can have all.
I guess Paul was expecting yes for an answer when he wrote in 1 Cor 12:29-30, "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?"
Check your Bible, and read those verses again and again and come back here to tell me Paul ever alluled to the fact that any single person could actually be an Apostle, prophesy, teach, work miracles, have all the gifts of healing, speak in tongues and also interpret.
What's even the purpose of this epistle in chapter 12 if not to recognise the fact that there are divers gifts (vs 4) and that some have a certain gift, while some have others (vs 8-10)?
1 Cor 12:11 "but all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, DIVIDING (not giving the whole to any single individual) to every man severally as he will."

ALL things are still mine. that is settled. As a child of a billionaire his entire estate and wealth are mine but at each stage a certain growth into such is needed but that does not mean its not mine you get the analogy my dear.

uvalued:


purpose you say...here

1cor 14:
2  For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

and by the way, as in church, when the word is read from the scripture, its a form of prophecy but you reading the word and declaring same over yourself is also prophecy; thus showing two fold usage. in like manner, tongues can be used for evangelism as in acts 2 but can be used for personal edification as staed in 1 cor 14:4.

yes in gathering i agree if there is no interpretation but he NEVER forbade it outrightly but in my privacy i can speak tongues to edification which am a witness.

Right there after 1 Cor. 14:4, you can read Paul throwing his weight behind Church edification.
Paul statement in 1 Cor. 14:4a is at best, a satire. I don't see a way in hell he is endorsing self-edification in that verse. Paul saw speaking in a gathering in a tongue unknown to the audience as self-edification(a boast) if not interpreted. He is not teaching the use of tongue in private if you study that chapter very well. Of what use is it, if I have the gift to speak 50 different languages and all I could use it for is speak to myself in my room?
Even Paul who could speak more tongues than them all would rather speak five words that can be understood, so others might benefit, than 10000 words in a language unknown to that audience.
The whole purpose of that chapter 14 is: ensure you use a language that can be understood by your audience, and if not, get an interpreter to edify the body of Christ and not to show off your ability to speak other tongues (self edification).

otr1:

Right there after 1 Cor. 14:4, you can read Paul throwing his weight behind Church edification.
Paul statement in 1 Cor. 14:4a is at best, a satire. I don't see a way in hell he is endorsing self-edification in that verse. Paul saw speaking in a gathering in a tongue unknown to the audience as self-edification(a boast) if not interpreted. He is not teaching the use of tongue in private if you study that chapter very well. Of what use is it, if I have the gift to speak 50 different languages and all I could use it for is speak to myself in my room?
Even Paul who could speak more tongues than them all would rather speak five words that can be understood, so others might benefit, than 10000 words in a language unknown to that audience.
The whole purpose of that chapter 14 is: ensure you use a language that can be understood by your audience, and if not, get an interpreter to edify the body of Christ and not to show off your ability to speak other tongues (self edification).

for your mind you think that the Holy Spirit that made paul write that verse was satirical ko? in your bid to discredit what your finite mind cant comprehend you allude to assumption.

okay if only church edification is accepted then my personal edification of the word most not be really valid as that of church...

orderliness is the bottom word of all paul is emphasising individual and collective edification should be done ... which we all see he does not FORBADE speaking in tongues and also he says anyone ignorant shoukd remain ignorant!

uvalued:


in summary you subscribe to B. soul in the body theology... good.

please have you ever heard the spirit prays...

Not soul in the body, but a living body is a living soul.
Spirit prays? No, but he does help us know what to say and ask for in prayer. That's what he does.

uvalued:


for your mind you think that the Holy Spirit that made paul write that verse was satirical ko? in your bid to discredit what your finite mind cant comprehend you allude to assumption.

okay if only church edification is accepted then my personal edification of the word most not be really valid as that of church...

orderliness is the bottom word of all paul is emphasising individual and collective edification should be done ... which we all see he does not FORBADE speaking in tongues and also he says anyone ignorant shoukd remain ignorant!

I can boldly say that Paul forbade using God's gift for self edification. It can't make it clearer than that without sounding rash.

otr1:

I can boldly say that Paul forbade using God's gift for self edification. It can't make it clearer than that without sounding rash.

you are boldly wrong. paul NEVER forbade building up or self edification as you wish to put it except you will point where he stated thus.

otr1:

Not soul in the body, but a living body is a living soul.
Spirit prays? No, but he does help us know what to say and ask for in prayer. That's what he does.

are you claiming man's spirit does not exist?

uvalued:


are you claiming man's spirit does not exist?

If you check Gen. 2:7, you'll see that a living soul is made up of the dust and the breath of God(spirit).
As you can see, we do not have our OWN spirit or soul, but rather we basically have the spirit of God in us keeping us alive, and with that spirit in us, we ARE LIVING SOULS.

uvalued:

you are boldly wrong. paul NEVER forbade building up or self edification as you wish to put it except you will point where he stated thus.

Paul didn't have to give it the luxury of mention. The purpose of that chapter is to address the misuse of the gift of tongues by the Church in Corinth. Throughout the chapter, he advocated using that particular gift for the edification of the Church. In essence, he's ringing it into their ears that it's not for self-edification.
Until you see tongues for what it is (a human language) as it were in Acts 2, you won't realise that using tongues in private is useless.

otr1:

Paul didn't have to give it the luxury of mention. The purpose of that chapter is to address the misuse of the gift of tongues by the Church in Corinth. Throughout the chapter, he advocated using that particular gift for the edification of the Church. In essence, he's ringing it into their ears that it's not for self-edification.
Until you see tongues for what it is (a human language) as it were in Acts 2, you won't realise that using tongues in private is useless.

you are wrong. prophecy was used to edify the church but speaking in tongues edifies the individual which must not necessarily be done in the church.

1 cor 14:2-4

2  For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. note

 3  But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

 4  He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

then he goes on to state that in church, tongues spoken should be done but there should be interpretation else the speaker should speak to himself which results in him been edified via the spirit. in church tongues will sound like meaningless sound which it is to the hearers except there be an interpreter. that is what it is.

in conclusion, tongues is multifaceted. as a tool for evangelism, as a tool to speak mysteries to God, as a tool for self edification all in one. and no amoubt of denial by your type will change its usage.

otr1:

If you check Gen. 2:7, you'll see that a living soul is made up of the dust and the breath of God(spirit).
As you can see, we do not have our OWN spirit or soul, but rather we basically have the spirit of God in us keeping us alive, and with that spirit in us, we ARE LIVING SOULS.

in other words you are assuming we dont have human spirit?

uvalued:


in other words you are assuming we dont have human spirit?

Yes. The one we have is not ours.
Note: what we call spirit only means, "breath" or "air", which is what God gave us to make a living soul, without which we are just dust. It's as simple as that.

uvalued:


you are wrong. prophecy was used to edify the church but speaking in tongues edifies the individual which must not necessarily be done in the church.



then he goes on to state that in church, tongues spoken should be done but there should be interpretation else the speaker should speak to himself which results in him been edified via the spirit. in church tongues will sound like meaningless sound which it is to the hearers except there be an interpreter. that is what it is.

in conclusion, tongues is multifaceted. as a tool for evangelism, as a tool to speak mysteries to God, as a tool for self edification all in one. and no amoubt of denial by your type will change its usage.

Note that your type of tongue can never be a tool for evangelism. Secondly, God doesn't require anyone to speak mysteries to him. Jesus already told us how to pray...simple, short, clear words without vain repetitions.
1 Cor. 14:14, Paul said your understanding is fruitless if you pray in an unknown language.
In the next verse, he now implies that the right thing is to pray and with the spirit with understanding. How then is he advocating self edification when he is telling you to seek that you may excel to the edifying of the Church? 1 Cor. 14:12

otr1:

Yes. The one we have is not ours.
Note: what we call spirit only means, "breath" or "air", which is what God gave us to make a living soul, without which we are just dust. It's as simple as that.

stop promoting lies.

Man has a spirit different from the Spirit of God.

i can show you 10 verses at least that show man has a spirit different from the Spirit of God.

uvalued:


stop promoting lies.

Man has a spirit different from the Spirit of God.

i can show you 10 verses at least that show man has a spirit different from the Spirit of God.

Everything we have is given by God. I just showed you that irrefutable fact that man was made of just dust and became a living with the breath (spirit) of God -Gen. 2:7. Except of course, if you mean the Bible is lying. And keep it in mind that the meaning of spirit as used in the Bible, means "breath", "air".
Don't bother to argue this with me if you hold the belief that we have souls that live on after we die.

otr1:

Everything we have is given by God. I just showed you that irrefutable fact that man was made of just dust and became a living with the breath (spirit) of God -Gen. 2:7. Except of course, if you mean the Bible is lying. And keep it in mind that the meaning of spirit as used in the Bible, means "breath", "air".
Don't bother to argue this with me if you hold the belief that we have souls that live on after we die.

is this how your bible says about this verse

1thess 5:23

23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

uvalued:




is this how your bible says about this verse

1thess 5:23

The word translated to soul in both the old and new testament refers to living being in both hebrew and greek. We die when God withdraws his breath (spirit)
Psalm 104:29-30 ...'Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.'
Job 34:14-15 ...'If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.'
Thesalonian 5:23 does not prove otherwise.

uvalued:


which of this do you subscribe to

a. man consist of spirit, soul and body

or

b. man consist of body and soul.

hmm I don't know why u asked this ... I know man has an internal which consists of soul and spirit and external (body)

otr1:

The word translated to soul in both the old and new testament refers to living being in both hebrew and greek. We die when God withdraws his breath (spirit)
Psalm 104:29-30 ...'Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.'
Job 34:14-15 ...'If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.'
Thesalonian 5:23 does not prove otherwise.

haha so if you subscribe to spirit as breath... in both OT NT, lets apply the logic to this verses

1 thess 5
 23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole BREATH and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

my breath must be darn horrible for God to need to sanctify it or rather paul wouldhave recommended close up for a clean breath. dont you think so

. Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy BREATH said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

WOW so breath can speak okay oh

i thought its only persons with personality that can reason to ask for separation. awesome.

1 cor 14

14  For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my BREATH prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

 15  What is it then? I will pray with the BREATH, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the BREATH, and I will sing with the understanding also.

otr see application of your spirit is breath.
addition

Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean breaths, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

hmm if unclean breath is what must be casted out... then i guess instead of Christ wasting power casting out unclean breath He would have used close up toothpaste for a clean breath!

Ferisidowu:



hmm I don't know why u asked this ... I know man has an internal which consists of soul and spirit and external (body)

thank you...now have you wondered if spirit can pray and sing?

uvalued:

thank you...now have you wondered if spirit can pray and sing?

tell me something from the scriptures

Ferisidowu:


tell me something from the scriptures

i tot you would have known by now spirit can pray and sing or why would paul say the following

19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; View more

2. Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

uvalued:


haha so if you subscribe to spirit as breath... in both OT NT, lets apply the logic to this verses

The word spirit as used in the OT and NT (ruah/pneuma) stands twice as often for the wind/power of God as it does for the breath/feelings/will of Man.
Basically, it means air, breath, wind, but it can be used in some other contexts. In the New Testament Pneuma is translated the following ways:
ghost, Ghost (with Holy), life, spirit, spiritual gift, spiritually, wind.

my breath must be darn horrible for God to need to sanctify it or rather paul wouldhave recommended close up for a clean breath. dont you think so

In your ignorance, you fail to know that the word used for bad breath in Job 19:17 is ruach which invariably will be translated as pneuma in greek...the same word translated as spirit in this verse.
The passage from 1 Thessalonians 5:23 lay emphasis clearly on the whole person, not on a person composed of three parts. For Godsake, the word translated as spirit in Rev. 11:11 is the same as that translated as "life" in Rev. 13:15. A glance through the pages of the Bible will tell you that spirit in some instances is being used to denote emotional states. This verse is another way saying "may you be kept blameless..."
If I say Jesus is my Lord and Savior, am I referring to two persons?

WOW so breath can speak okay oh

i thought its only persons with personality that can reason to ask for separation. awesome.

1 Cor 2:10b–12:
For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So too, no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things that are freely given to us by God.

Did you get the message? The Spirit man may think he has is from God. So next time you read "my spirit" in reference to a man in the Bible, check the context.

otr see application of your spirit is breath.
addition


hmm if unclean breath is what must be casted out... then i guess instead of Christ wasting power casting out unclean breath He would have used close up toothpaste for a clean breath!

Now I expect you to know that "unclean spirit", not unclean "spirit" is a phrase meaning a demon/ghost. This a compound word that can not defined separately.

i am just blessed to know my identity in Christ and to engage you in this discussion is so exhilerating. the mire you try to deflect the reason the more your post support the reason for the human spirit.

now to see how your post support thehuman spirit...

otr1:

The word spirit as used in the OT and NT (ruah/pneuma) stands twice as often for the wind/power of God as it does for the breath/feelings/will of Man.
Basically, it means air, breath, wind, but it can be used in some other contexts. In the New Testament Pneuma is translated the following ways:
ghost, Ghost (with Holy), life, spirit, spiritual gift, spiritually, wind.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my WIND prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the WIND, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the WIND, and I will sing with the understanding also.

hmm have you seen the wind SINGING or PRAYING to God.

In your ignorance, you fail to know that the word used for bad breath in Job 19:17 is ruach which invariably will be translated as pneuma in greek...the same word translated as spirit in this verse.

hmm okay so here it is referred to impersonal and not a personality.

The passage from 1 Thessalonians 5:23 lay emphasis clearly on the whole person, not on a person composed of three parts. For Godsake, the word translated as spirit in Rev. 11:11 is the same as that translated as "life" in Rev. 13:15. A glance through the pages of the Bible will tell you that spirit in some instances is being used to denote emotional states. This verse is another way saying "may you be kept blameless..."
If I say Jesus is my Lord and Savior, am I referring to two persons?

you are trying so hard to paint a picture that spirit cannot have personality and to which you failed woefully.

1 Cor 2:10b–12:
For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So too, no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things that are freely given to us by God.

Did you get the message? The Spirit man may think he has is from God. So next time you read "my spirit" in reference to a man in the Bible, check the context.

halleluyah you have by the above acknowledged that there is a human spirit or is it spirit man...thank you for accepting that we have a spirit.

Now I expect you to know that "unclean spirit", not unclean "spirit" is a phrase meaning a demon/ghost. This a compound word that can not defined separately.

so now we know that applying the word wind/breath will not work in all circumstances

@otr1 to cap it all, i gladly asked you the following

uvalued:


in other words you are assuming we dont have human spirit?

then you replied

otr1:

Yes. The one we have is not ours.
Note: what we call spirit only means, "breath" or "air", which is what God gave us to make a living soul, without which we are just dust. It's as simple as that.

and later you had to admit thus

1 Cor 2:10b–12:
For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So too, no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things that are freely given to us by God.

Did you get the message? The Spirit man may think he has is from God. So next time you read "my spirit" in reference to a man in the Bible, check the context.

you thus confirm that we have spirit man or human spirit...so i ask does the spirit man pray/sing?

uvalued:
@otr1 to cap it all, i gladly asked you the following


then you replied


and later you had to admit thus



you thus confirm that we have spirit man or human spirit...so i ask does the spirit man pray/sing?

May be you have comprehension issue since you decided to ignore the latter part of that verse which says everything we have is from God. This is consistent with the fact that the Spirit of God is the source of our the life we have. For emphasis. The word "Emi" in Yoruba (same pronunciation) means Spirit and also. Life. The "mi" means, to breath. May be you should use your local language to understand the context of what the Bible means by Spirit. It's nothing more than the life you have. I never admitted your belief

otr1:

May be you have comprehension issue since you decided to ignore the latter part of that verse which says everything we have is from God. This is consistent with the fact that the Spirit of God is the source of our the life we have. For emphasis. The word "Emi" in Yoruba (same pronunciation) means Spirit and also. Life. The "mi" means, to breath. May be you should use your local language to understand the context of what the Bible means by Spirit. It's nothing more than the life you have. I never admitted your belief

now what do you mean SPIRIT MAN? are you saying spirit man is different from HUMAN SPIRIT? All i am saying man has a spirit COMPLETELY different from the SPIRT OF GOD or the spirit of the power of the air. do you object still