AbuUthaymeen:
LAUGHING . .ALWAYS DODGING . .WHEN IT HAS NO PR0OF . .MGG . . AND WHICH OF HADITH IN BUKHARI OR MUSLIM IS AGAINST QURAN. . .JUST SAY 1 . .JUST 1

tintingz:
# Is there anything actually "clear truth"?

# What if you are "clear wrong"?

# What makes you think you're not a "kafir(disbeliever)" or not to be tag one?

Riduane:


Good questions.

tintingz:
Brother, no one is ready to discuss that with me.

Raintaker:
Did you read the Op at all?

tintingz:
Yes, i did, the op talked about clear truth and who to call a kafir, I asked questions on this.

Raintaker:
OK


I thought u were among those who call everyone kafirs.

Your question has been addressed by d Op.


Only Allah knows who a kafir is.

tintingz:
No, my question has not been address.

You believe your religion is the "clear truth" and those that reject it are kafir, so I asked what if you are "clear wrong" and the kafir that reject your clear truth are the right and truth?

Raintaker:

That is not the purpose of this thread, don't derail it.


Raise d question on another thread and Tag me if you want my contributions.



This thread is solely for who to call a kafir and nothing else.

tintingz:
You're dodging the question which is part of this thread.

I reject your clear truth revealed in your religion, am I a kafir? If I'm a kafir, what makes you think you're not a kafir?

Creating a separate thread is baseless as the topic and discussion will focus on "truth" and "kafir". If you insist, I can create a thread on it.

iamgenius:
Raintaker said the clear truth, bring your proof it you think he is saying the clear wrong.

tintingz:
Good.

Olorun the Yoruba God is the true God, the creator of everything, all your Adam and eve stories are wrong as ile Ife is where creation started, there is no hell, no eternity punishment according to Olorun. This the clear truth and if you reject it you're a kafir.

Now proof to me your God is the clear truth and why you are not a kafir.

iamgenius:
U only told me what you believe in, you failed to prove it to me.

Creation started in ile ife? After Ife nko which country was created next?

Yorubas are only believers of that god(olorun).

I didn't believe in olorun because according to you, he only govern Orun alone.

If creation started in Ife, how are there so many tribes and languages? Pls Explain.

tintingz:
You're dodging the question which is part of this thread.

I reject your clear truth revealed in your religion, am I a kafir? If I'm a kafir, what makes you think you're not a kafir?

Creating a separate thread is baseless as the topic and discussion will focus on "truth" and "kafir". If you insist, I can create a thread on it.

Raintaker:
Create a thread on it and tag me.

This thread has achieved it's purpose already.

Create your own thread and tell me why you reject my religion's clear proof and show me the clear truth about your own religion.
After seeing the clear truth with all your senses and faculties intact, with a sound and clear mind but purposeful decide to reject the truth to suit your own agenda, then you yourself know what you are.


A full blown Kafir.

Create your thread and tag me

tintingz:
If I show you the clear wrong of your religion and clear truth of my religion, are you ready to leave your religion?

You are also a full blown kafir in my religion just that my God is not a wicked and not a angry God, he doesn't throw people who reject him inside eternal hell.

Raintaker:

What is d purpose of your creation on earth?

And how would you give thanks to d one who gave you life?

tintingz:
I decide my purpose in life.

Thanks for what? For i am still alive and some people and kids are dying daily? Giving thanks for that is self-centered and makes the god a partial god.

I don't give thanks to any deity because I'm the one doing the struggle in life.

Raintaker:
Interesting.

So you are a saying you being alive might probably be by mistake?

Create your thread and let's move on there.

tintingz:
We being alive/existence is not widely known and agreed yet, it still a debate.

If your god is the cause of my existence then why did he create evil? Why did your god create Satan?

Here is what an early philosopher Epicurus said,

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

tintingz:
We being alive/existence is not widely known and agreed yet, it still a debate.



Hold on Hold Hold on


You are still debating if you are alive or existing?

You are not even sure of your own existence.




Or what are you trying to say?

If your god is the cause of my existence then why did he create evil? Why did your god create Satan?

Here is what an early philosopher Epicurus said,

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

Raintaker:



By the human mind and that which perfected it and inspired in it lewdness and God-fearing." (91:7-


"Have we not blessed him with two eyes and a tongue, and two lips and guided him on the two highways' of right and wrong." (90:8-10)

Man loses his balance between good and evil under pressure of worldly desires and succumbs to evil acts. Due to this tendency of the soul, according to the Holy Qur'an, it is prone to evil. The Prophet Yusuf (sws) pointed towards this in these words:

"I do not exculpate myself. Lo, the human soul is prone to evil." (12:53)


The concept of good and evil is inherent in human nature looking at the above verses from the Quran.

It is man's earthly desires that lead him further to evil and farther away from good.


About Shaytan He is Allah's creature and he was created the for the same reason why you were created



And behold, We said to the angels: “Bow down to Adam” and they bowed down. Not so Iblis (Satan): he refused and was haughty: he was of those who reject Faith. (2: 34)

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels bow down to Adam, and they boweddown; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who bow down. (God) said: “What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?” He said: “I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay.” (God) said: “Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures).” (7: 11–13)

Behold! We said to the angels: “Prostrate unto Adam”: They prostrated except Iblis (Satan): He said, “Shall I prostrate to one whom Thou didst create from clay?” He said: “Seest Thou? This is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway – all but a few!” (17: 61–62)



Going through these verses would suffice to draw a clear picture of Satan’s character. It is that of an arrogant creature that thinks highly of his physical fibre, so much so that he rebels against the will of God when he perceives that it clashes with the intrinsic conceited tendency of his character. Not only this, he seems bent on facing the consequences of his rebellion and not bothering about his fate, only to keep his “pride”.




Just like some human beings rebelling against their creator by refusing to acknowledge him.

tintingz:
All what you posted have not answer the question.

It still boils down to "Why did God create evil, Satan?" except you want to say Allah didn't create satan or he doesn't know Satan will become the bad guy or Allah doesn't know everything?

The more reason Epicurus first question is Is God willing to prevent evil but not able?

Raintaker:
I'm wondering if you read what you quoted before quoting it.


Allah has created good and evil with man(check the Quranic verses above) It is man that either makes the choice of going d good way or d evil way.

Shaitan is a creature of Allah like you who rebelled against his creator.

If you are asking why Allah created shaitan then it means you didn't know d purpose of every creator is to worship Allah.

Shaytan is a jinn, Allah created humans and jinns with free wills of either good or bad.

Shaitan chose d bad side after thinking he was d next best thing after slice bread by refusing to bow to Adam.

Shaytan only pleaded with Allah that he didn't want to go down alone.
Allah being d grsnter of requests granted him permission with a certain exception of those who believe in him.

It is your belief that Shaytan is d one that causes evil but that is not my belief , nothing happens outside the knowledge of my Lord Allah.

tintingz:
Good, so you agreed Allah created evil? If Allah is the creator of evil then he's the source of evil, he knows if someone will become evil, which makes man dependent on good and evil, which makes choice or freewill shaky and flawed or is there any choice outside good and evil?
This is rubbish, there are only two sides to a coin it's either you are good or evil.


Allah is said to be all-powerful why can't he prevent Satan he created from rebelling?
Why should he prevent Satan from rebelling? Isn't that an opposition to FREEWILL?


If you have power to prevent a terrorist from rebelling won't you put an end to it?
Is Satan's rebellion akin to terrorism?
What are you even saying?

Did Allah know Satan will become the bad guy?
Allah knows everything

Let see how freewill works here, if Allah created Satan to become the bad guy as part of his plan, should we call that freewill? If Satan acted independently, should we say Allah is not capable?
Seems you've been reading my replies upside down, repeating a question that has been answered multiple times.

Man and jinns are created with free will in where they choose good or evil according to their desires.

Is this play part of Allah's plan?
Did Allah tell you he's Shakespeare or Wole Soyinka?
Which play


So Allah can prevent/stop Satan but choose Satan to cause evil to humanity, why should I worship such god?
Same question that has been answered.
Satan does not cause evil to humanity, I don't know where you got this wrong ideology from.

If shekau the boko haram dog leader came to you to ask permission to cause havoc on people and you have the power to stop him, will you give shekau the chance?

This analogy holds no water
Lol, if Satan is not the one that cause evil, why do Muslims rebuke him? What does Auzu'billah Mina'shaitan nirajim means? Don't forget I'm a Muslim.
So much for being a Muslim, when you don't know even d simple meaning of adhubillahi Mina shaytoni rajim

So if Satan is not the one that causes evil, who then causes evil?

Raintaker:



After the fall of Khyber, people described the beauty of Safia Bint Hui, the new bride of a slain enemy soldier. The Prophet chose her for himself. On the way to Madina he stopped and had intercourse with her. His companions did not know if she was a wife or a concubine. Later, a veil was drawn between her and the men-folk and they came to know that she was a wife (Bukhari, Book of Sales and Book of Nikah 3:59).
Indeed Bukhari makes the Prophet of Islam to be a real sexual predator and pervert! The Prophet had nothing else on his mind except ravishing women, including the new bride of a slain enemy soldier. What cruelty? Which verse in the Quran is explained by this sick hadith?

Do you believe in this kind of Hadith?

AbuUthaymeen:
NOTHING IS WR0NG WITH THIS HADITH. . CHECK UR BRAIN BRO

Raintaker:



After the fall of Khyber, people described the beauty of Safia Bint Hui, the new bride of a slain enemy soldier. The Prophet chose her for himself. On the way to Madina he stopped and had intercourse with her. His companions did not know if she was a wife or a concubine. Later, a veil was drawn between her and the men-folk and they came to know that she was a wife (Bukhari, Book of Sales and Book of Nikah 3:59).
Indeed Bukhari makes the Prophet of Islam to be a real sexual predator and pervert! The Prophet had nothing else on his mind except ravishing women, including the new bride of a slain enemy soldier. What cruelty? Which verse in the Quran is explained by this sick hadith?

Do you believe in this kind of Hadith?

Raintaker:
It's your own brain that needs to be checked if you can't find anything wrong in that Hadith?
That Hadith is a lie.

The prophet is not a sexual predator.

If you want more of those wrong had it's, I can open a full page thread on that.


Buhari never wrote Sahih Buhari and it is not perfect.

Only the Quran is perfect.

Raintaker:
It's your own brain that needs to be checked if you can't find anything wrong in that Hadith?
That Hadith is a lie.

The prophet is not a sexual predator.

If you want more of those wrong had it's, I can open a full page thread on that.


Buhari never wrote Sahih Buhari and it is not perfect.

Only the Quran is perfect.

AhluSunnah:
please quote that hadith from its reporter.I cannot find that hadith anywhere. Every hadith i see is different from what you potray here