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Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? - Art, Graphics & Video (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by layi(m): 4:26pm On Dec 31, 2005
True. In as much as i appreciate the forum, its not diff from what we have here. We might end up just discussing there as well.

I made more research and found out that we'll actually need up to 20 animators working 12 hrs daily to make a 1 hr 3D movie of international quality. Budget ran into N6M
I also learnt that foreign TV stations pay 10,000$ to air such movies. We can syndicate the stuff to several stations but we need the links/cnxns.
6M can generate 39M (realistically). I know some Indians who r into it but they refuse to link me up. I'll keep researching anyway.
I'ld have advised we get going and then send materials to Disney, cartoon network etc but i heard they dont respond to unsolicited materials so the link is necessary.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by 4real(m): 4:37pm On Dec 31, 2005
so ok
we need 6m ok, layi can you pls break it down for us how it's going to be spent and pls if guys have any idea how we can get this money
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by layi(m): 5:07pm On Dec 31, 2005
Budget Needed to Start a MutiMedia Studio (plus 3D movie project)- estimates

Stdio apartment (2 bedroom flat) 120K X 2yrs plus agency fees -   N250.000
Business Registeration                                                         -   N10.000
20 P4 Desktop PC units (flat screen, fairly used) @ 50K each    -    N1.000.000
Workstations @ furniture rows (10 Pc units each)                     -    N140.000
Generator and AC                                                              -    N100.000
Movie Script (purchase)                                                      -  N200.000
Vocals (on Movie)                                                               -N500.000
Sound tracks (3 songs produced @ N40K each) -N120.000
20 animators working 72hrs weekly at N60k wage / month -           N3.600.000
*Liquidity (cash at bank to run business)/Misc.                             - N1.000.000

Total                                                                                      - N6.820.000

* covers wages in case animators need more than 3 months. We might also decided to show movie @ silverbird so advertisement would be needed. if we decide to sell to stations, some folks would need to travel out. Amonsgt other miscellaneous expenses.
After sales of first movie, work force/renumeration would be reviewed.
Its a tite budget . It could cost a lil more but we would make a lot of cash since cable stations buy nice animated films for $10K (average) and there are lots of them (over a hundred)

I have a multimedia studio though but not as big as d prototype above. I'm working towards this so if interested, join in. Open to suggestions and modifications anyway.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by c0dec(m): 12:54am On Jan 01, 2006
i expected your PCs to cost more. 50k isn't really going to get you the ideal workstation. i assume you haven't considered the graphics hardware you're going to use for rendering. i doubt a 50k P4 would even have the best IGP on the market not to even talk of a good dedicated 3D card.

from what i know, top animation companies work with clusters of high spec machines using the lastest state-of-the-art ATIs or Nvidia cards. (nvidia's GeForce 7800 GTX 512 is currently the best out there and not cheap either - not less than $600)

of course there are cheaper alternatives but they'll certainly increase the price you put up there. do some more research.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by layi(m): 6:15pm On Jan 01, 2006
You are right c0dec about the pricing but 'we' are actually getting them from a 3D firm in New delhi, India- Saart media. I talked with them already. They got fairly used ones for sale (3d ready). I know we'll need systems worth 180K each but we can make do with fairly used for a start. It actually 420$ each p4 2.6ghz all have 3D max and ATIs installed.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by smartsoft(m): 12:06am On Jan 02, 2006
What do you mean i mentioned Bobtv.. i could easly get to bobtv Office and they could buy it.. and again i something like a film.. with Catoon like such thing we are talking about here.. They created the stuff with 3dMax... And the movie will be intresting.. cos it 's first of his kind in nigeria.. Number one Animated Movie in nigeria
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by layi(m): 11:53am On Jan 02, 2006
For the upteenth time..i'll say again "I'm down for this". We have the animators and tools to make it happen. All we need is funding/great marketing concept. Ideas are welcome
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by 4real(m): 12:31pm On Jan 02, 2006
Layi
look i have spoken to a friend and men i would mail you later so that we can talk about somethings and we are also looking into a way to fund this project, for me am sick and tired of talking and i want to get into action.
does anyone know how we can fund this project again ?
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by demmy(m): 11:08am On Jan 03, 2006
Gentlemen, I don't know but how about contacting the owner of Papa Ajasco comics, Adenuga or something maybe he might be interested in funding a full length feature animation. Or some other nigerian popular comic character out there. what do you think? But it is better we have something ready to showcase.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by wilsonhaze(m): 1:49pm On Jan 03, 2006
layi, the money u are talking about is the amount required to open up a multimedia studio, thats a good idea but i think we should start the project from our own homes or workplaces first. the site i created is not just about talk its about work, we will use the site in uploading our work from diffrent places, for example i can upload a 3d model that i created to the site so that ya'll can see it, then the posted 3d work can now be seen from the site, someone else can edit it, e.t.c. please i need u guys to be at the site. layi, 4real, deepthought*{already registered},and others that are ready.

by next week i will post something that i modelled on the site, so u guys can see that this site is not just for more talk.
cheers
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by DeepThough: 6:19pm On Jan 03, 2006
There is a lot involved here so please let me state a few issues

1.I see a lot about of posts with the sentiment; " lets just get on with it. Enough talk-talk" etc. In my opinion, this is the wrong approach. Isn't anyone glad that because of "talk-talk", Layi has revisited his estimate and come up with a more detailed/realistic one? What would have happened if we had just jumped into this with  a cost estimate of 2M in mind? . There is value in doing proper research before leaping into anything

2. Realistically speaking starting from scratch with nothing and expecting to go on to creating a full fledge animation with a budget of 6M within a few months may be a bit much. I think the approach to take is to start out small, move slowly but surely, do demos on the forum created by wilsonhaze, get to know each other, test our capabilities, refine the philosophy/vision and PLAN for the future.
Obviously we are not yet all on the same page. We need to be, as sometimes the human dynamics makes or breaks a project, rather than techinical competence or hardware.I can already foresee personality and philosophic clashes. We need to resolve these issues or else should not even start. Some of us (being sure of our expertise )think of this thing as an immediate money spinner which we should enbark upon right away. This is not an approach I favor. I would rather spend a month planning and putting in place infrastructure, fine tuning our different approaches, expectations and vision.

3. There is nothing wrong in creating another forum dedicated solely to this project even if it is similar to what is already on Nairaland. We should be grateful to the admin of this board for providing a springboard but please bear in mind that Nairaland is was not  custom created for this particular purpose.We probably cannot without permission upload works here assuming we get this thing going.
If we are able to form a workable team, somewhere down the line, we will definetly need a dedicated forum.

Now to specifics:
demmy:

Gentlemen, I don't know but how about contacting the owner of Papa Ajasco comics, Adenuga or something maybe he might be interested in funding a full length feature animation. Or some other nigerian popular comic character out there. what do you think? But it is better we have something ready to showcase.
Good idea but you already said it: It is better to have something ready to showcase. And to have worked out a common direction, goal, philosophy.

layi:

For the upteenth time..i'll say again "I'm down for this". We have the animators and tools to make it happen. All we need is funding/great marketing concept. Ideas are welcome
1.Layi, can you please upload something to the forum created by wilsonhaze. Anything will do.
2.I am blown away by the preliminary  cost estimate. From experience working in Project Management in other fields ,I can assure you that you haven't thought of everything and by the time you end, the costs could easily have doubled!

Would you  consider 2D animation as a cheaper alternative? (By 2D,I refer to cartoons of the Tom and Jerry ilk)
3. What about considering wilsonhaze's idea about working from home with what we have?
smartsoft:

What do you mean i mentioned Bobtv.. i could easly get to bobtv Office and they could buy it.. and again i something like a film.. with Catoon like such thing we are talking about here.. They created the stuff with 3dMax... And the movie will be intresting.. because it 's first of his kind in nigeria.. Number one Animated Movie in nigeria
Not quite sure I get the meaning of your post above.

wilsonhaze:

layi, the money u are talking about is the amount required to open up a multimedia studio, thats a good idea but i think we should start the project from our own homes or workplaces first. the site i created is not just about talk its about work, we will use the site in uploading our work from diffrent places, for example i can upload a 3d model that i created to the site so that ya'll can see it, then the posted 3d work can now be seen from the site, someone else can edit it, e.t.c. please i need u guys to be at the site. layi, 4real, deepthought*{already registered},and others that are ready.

by next week i will post something that i modelled on the site, so u guys can see that this site is not just for more talk.
cheers

Looking forward to seeing whatever you upload.

Secondly, though I would like to thank you for starting this thread and the forum, you will need to give up a lot of control/access to the site if this is to be a team effort.

@All:
We haven't even scratched the tip of the iceberg and I wouldn't want anyone to asssume that this is a small or easy thing. However, with the right attitude, a lot of patience and a willingness to work together, I think it can be done.

Thanks.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by c0dec(m): 10:12pm On Jan 03, 2006
now that's the smartest post i've seen here.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by grafikdon: 8:39pm On Jan 04, 2006
This a great idea but there's more to making an animated movie than meets the eye. The N6.M budget no doubt will do the job as long as everything is done in Naija 'cause let's face it, no animator ouside naija in his right mind will settle for N60.K monthly even if it was the only way to get into heaven.

Starting from scratch (Script, storyboard, modeling, texture, animation, rendering, compositing, editing/finishing) could take a while even if you have 20 animators. These elements have to be considered during the planning. Forget about 3 months, you cannot come out with a 1 hr animated feature in 3 months unless you want to compromise quality. 6 months will be a more realistic (Not accurate) projection with about at least 10 animators with each handling about 6 minutes of animation.

Believe me, 6 minutes of animation in six months for one animator sounds simple but when you really go through the entire process (Storyboard, modeling, texture, animation, rendering, compositing, editing/finishing) you will realise it is no joke. I have been there, so I know. I 've done a couple of  3 minute animated music videos from scratch and each of them took me a good 38 days. Another 58 minute animated feature I did from scratch took me about 18 months and it was simplified and cel shaded.

There's a need to access individual skills to determine assignment of dutuies. A lot of people are very good with modeling while some are good in animation and texture, there are those we call 'generalists' who have all the three vital areas in their finger tips but these people are rare (I mean those who do it very well and can hold their ground in storyboarding, modeling, textures and animation). I wouldn't suggest you count of getting 'generalists' from Nigeria. Get to know what the guys are good at and assign the duties appropriately.

That's just my $0.02.

Kudos to you guys. Nice to know there are some guys who think this way. Our development shouldn't be one sided, every sector should be exploited, just like in the US. If we are successful in building an animation industry in Nigeria (Please someone mark my word) Nigeria will become another animation outsourcing heaven...now u know that means more money and lots of employment... I am not sure you guys are aware of the magnitude of the effects of  a successful animation/video game industry in Nigeria... it could bring a lot of positive changes.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by c0dec(m): 9:14pm On Jan 04, 2006
smiley i think grafikdon has made things a lot more clearer now.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by DeepThough: 8:53am On Jan 05, 2006
Thank you Grafikdon,
I don't mean to be discouraging, if we decide to stick with 3D then so be it. However, I would like to suggest looking into the possibility of 2D animations for the sake of time and cost constraints. If movies like the Lion King are 2D, I don't think 2D is all that bad or subquality.

Just something to think about.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by grafikdon: 11:59am On Jan 05, 2006
DeepThough:

Thank you Grafikdon,
I don't mean to be discouraging, if we decide to stick with 3D then so be it. However, I would like to suggest looking into the possibility of 2D animations for the sake of time and cost constraints. If movies like the Lion King are 2D, I don't think 2D is all that bad or subquality.
Just something to think about.

I am not exactly a big fan of 3D, especially if we are talking about the Nigerian market. To me it is just a big band wagon where every Femi, Obi and Musa is diving. I am more of the Akira/Ghost In The Shell/Appleseed/Ninja Scroll/Lion King/Pokahontas/Anastacia kind of guy, that is why all my 3D works are cel shaded (emulating the 2D look). I love the diversity of the Japanese animated films and value them more than any US production because they are true to the trade and don't follow any particular pattern. We should try to emulate the Japanese and I am not tallking about the blood and gut part, just the diversity and the rich visual quality.

You can forget about those who give you the 'No market for animation' because that is just a load of crap. Your best bet is to give everyone of them the middle finger and come out with a good animated movie. With enough publicity you will have it doing more than any live action movie...yes, there is a market for animation in Nigeria...heck, in Africa... a very HUGE.

@DeepThought, if we are talking about 2D in the real sense (Hand drawn animation, frame by frame) believe me, fella, it could be more expensive and more time consuming. It requires people with excellent drawing skills and people with painting skills. Such a feat is near impossible in Nigeria... not beign negative here but yes, 2D is not an every Tom Dick and Harry affair like 3D. If you can't draw (VERY WELL) forget it. Do you know that a one hour 2D animated feature will require at least 100,000 drawings shocked you're going to need about 50 GOOD artists that will handle 2000 drawings each.

I love 2D animation more than anything 3D but I gave up on 2D long ago because as an indie animator, was a very tedious process and almost impossible for a one man squad. What I do instead is do everything in 3D and then use a toon shader to give the characters a 2D look (I attached an image to prove my point). There's a lot of work involved, modeling animation textures...etc but it saves me the trauma of running my pencil on thousands of papers...the trauma doesn't end there...cause you have to scan those thousands of drawings and then paint them shocked You can see that it is a no go area for a one man squad like me.

2D is not a cheaper alternative, though the cost of production could be at the same level with 3D but 2D is much more expensive in terms of skill and time, reason being that anyone without traditional art skill can be a good 3D animator while a strong (Almost perfect) traditional art skill is a basic requirement for 2D animation. You don't have to be a Leonardo Davinci to texture in 3D (Basic knowledge of color concept helps) but if you cannot paint a realistic background, you are not getting anywhere near creating backgrounds for 2D. There's always been a situation where 3D is integrated into 2D (Wildebeest stampede in Lion King, Some of the battle sims in Mulan) but these are just on areas that would be too difficult to manage in 2D.

The best bet will be to resort to cel shaded stuff if you guys agree on it. Once you have a good story, fluid animation and lots of eyecandy that will make the people go "WOW!"...everyone watching will forget about the razzle dazzle of Shrek and go...(You guessed right!) ''WOW shocked".

Not trying to join you guys or anything 'cause I am already committed to some projects and may not be able to squeeze out time but I will not hesitate to drop in some valuable hints because I really love the whole 'NIGERIAN ANIMATION INDUSTRY'. smiley

Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by layi(m): 12:18pm On Jan 05, 2006
@Deepthough.
I wasnt unrealistic wit the budget. 'I' (and my pals) can have it done with 2M but it would take longer. I miscalculated d duration anyway. I based my judgement on how long it took me to make the 30sec movie. It skipped my mind that the time is dependent on the type and # of characters (models) involved.
As per uploading. I'll need to know the size of the forum space first. The jobs are heavy e.g a 30 sec beer advert in 3D, a living room etc which are really heavy. I dont mind givin out my studio add (if u PM me) so u can see my works.

I also agree wit ur cost analysis. True, it could increase..reason why i call it estimate.

@c0dec
I understand u r a comp genius but gee please try make the posts more constructive. The thread is about buidin a team. Criticisms are okay but not statements like:

now that's the smartest post i've seen here.


@grafikdon
U surely are a graphic Don. grin I was surprised as well when i heard "there's no market". its just a pity that those with the money to make things happen are shortsighted. I quite agree with u that the market is huge here.
As per the 60K stuff. I arrived @ that cos 3D teachers in aptech and NIIT earn just 40K (these folks are good) and are ready to work wit us if paid more. U'll agree with me that labour is cheap here.
I welcome u on board.

I know what it takes to make a 2D film...its never on my train of thoughts.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by c0dec(m): 12:56pm On Jan 05, 2006
@layi.
i was only commending DeepThough's post cos he seems to emphasize on teamwork more than any other post. You guys just seemed to have been arguing with each other.

and hey i'm no 3d genius, i'm here to provide unbiased views. carry on.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by 4real(m): 5:18pm On Jan 06, 2006
well not around and the net here is very bad, but i have been able to talk to a guy who says he may drop like 1million for the project. i would send in more details next week.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by wilsonhaze(m): 4:53pm On Jan 07, 2006
so what do we conclude on?, do we start talking on how to start this project or what?.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by DeepThough: 10:43pm On Jan 07, 2006
@wilsonhaze:
The next line of action will be to upload whatever materials you have to the forum you created so that people can see it and comment. You also need to let people know how much space is available on the forum as Layi asked. You also need to let people into the back end of the forum so we know how it works, and everyone who is interested has complete access at all times


@4real:
Thanks for looking at the financing. Have you registered on wilsonhaze's forum? Do you have anything to upload?

@Layi:
I thought 2D might be cheaper and easier as I am conscious of costs. There is no advantage in 2D if it is not cheaper or easier to do. As for existence of a market, I assure you there is! I even get unsolicited mail looking for animations/films of Afro extraction. As for budgeting, I think we can count on between N2m-N6m. A clearer picture will emerge as time goes on.
I would suggest uploading whatever materials you have onto the forum created by wilsonhaze and we can take it from there?

@grafikdon:

Forget about 3 months, you cannot come out with a 1 hr animated feature in 3 months unless you want to compromise quality. 6 months will be a more realistic (Not accurate) projection with about at least 10 animators with each handling about 6 minutes of animation.Believe me, 6 minutes of animation in six months for one animator sounds simple but when you really go through the entire process (Storyboard, modeling, texture, animation, rendering, compositing, editing/finishing) you will realise it is no joke.
You are probably right, I'm happy to see us start with something small, say a demo


I have been there, so I know. I 've done a couple of 3 minute animated music videos from scratch and each of them took me a good 38 days. Another 58 minute animated feature I did from scratch took me about 18 months and it was simplified and cel shaded.
Was this a movie? Pls lets know more if it is possible, I really would love to view it.

@c0dec:
Thanks for your comment. I think its important to start things off on the right footing. Are you able to contribute to the work?

ALL:


There's a need to access individual skills to determine assignment of dutuies. A lot of people are very good with modeling while some are good in animation and texture, there are those we call 'generalists' who have all the three vital areas in their finger tips but these people are rare (I mean those who do it very well and can hold their ground in storyboarding, modeling, textures and animation). I wouldn't suggest you count of getting 'generalists' from Nigeria. Get to know what the guys are good at and assign the duties appropriately.

Individual talent is important and from grafikdon's graphic, I can see it will not be a problem, but I think the first goal here would be to test ourselves by seeing if we can as a team work fairly harmoniously together to create a five -ten min animation.
This probably means :-
-creating static icons from scratch and uploading this to the forum
-animating the icons, making them do simple actions
- see how long it takes
- Tallying the cost (time, software,hardware)
- comment on its quality and start planning for a script.
- imagine that the finished demo is a successful film which has/can be been sold for NXm, then think about incorporating a profit sharing arrangement.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by Seun(m): 10:46pm On Jan 07, 2006
Guys, I'm feeling left out o. How can I participate?
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by DeepThough: 11:00pm On Jan 07, 2006
@seun:
Left out? C'mon! Thanks for providing this forum in the first place. Do you know something about 3D animation? or any ideas about marketing/advertising a finished product?

By the way, I see you registered on the NVS. Happy new year.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by Seun(m): 2:55pm On Jan 09, 2006
I believe I'm quite good at helping with non-technical decisions like:
- What the title of your short film should be about.
- How you can market it most cost-effectively, and leverage the Internet.
- et cetera.

I also like to be conpensated for my efforts like any other professional!
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by 4real(m): 3:06pm On Jan 09, 2006
well
i have always been the fire ahead guy in this forum, well the reason is not just to start the job at a go, but to be able to talk about all this stuffs you guys are talking about, and it would be alot faster than posts. we can agree on alot of things, at a meeting, either on line or offline line. it's good how we are going, but i still say that we all have a meeting, so we can talk about alot of things, as for scripts, leave that for me, i got a guy i want to bring into this, voices, leave that for me too. but we need to see to talk about this things.
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by c0dec(m): 3:46pm On Jan 12, 2006
whats up?

have u guys started already?
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by layi(m): 4:26pm On Jan 12, 2006
We are already having talks (outside the forum).
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by mozart(m): 3:36pm On Jan 13, 2006
hi y'all
i was told of this forum by 4real. he knows i've been tyring to get a team toghether 4 somefin like dis 4 years.

one off, we don't need that kinda BUDGET. YEAH TIME IS IMPORTANT AN CAN BE MONITIZED BUT DO WE HAVE TO START THAT WAY? i think workin at home, we start something, five minutes, intensive, so action packed or emotional that anyone watching will want to know th whole story. that can be done in three weeks tops.

i'm a producer musically so voice overs is no problem, ditto with soundtracks( which) can also b sold by the way,

lets just do this
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by wilsonhaze(m): 10:33am On Jan 16, 2006
layi and 4real wats up wit u guys?, i need u guys at the forum man, or do ya'll have something else in mind, pls pls pls.. www.3dproject.r8.org .
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by demmy(m): 12:32pm On Jan 16, 2006
Hey wilsohaze, I tried to registered at that site you gave but I'm still awaiting your approval almost for a week now. whats up?
Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by wilsonhaze(m): 7:02pm On Jan 17, 2006
its been approved. this shoe is something i did with 3ds max yesterday.

Re: Want to Join Team of 3D Animators? by wilsonhaze(m): 7:31pm On Jan 17, 2006
please where is everybody?, i need u guys at the forum, demmy is there already......whats holing u guys?

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