historyworld030:

"Oral tradition" is no history at all. Events must be recorded soon after they happen in order to be called history. Oral tradition is a way to fake "history" by just making unsubstantiated claims.

macof:


Keep saying nonsense and deceiving yourself.

Maybe you are a better historian than my professors

historyworld030:

I don't need to be better than your professors, all I need to do is to be logical in what I say.
By the way, I am a mathematician, not a historian.

macof:




End of discussion. Now run along to a thread about mathematics and put your knowledge there, you have no knowledge of basic principle of African historical research

historyworld030:
Wow, I guess this is african logics 101.
It is not about the logics of my arguments but about me being qualified in an other field.
I guess once you are able to prove a theorem, you automatically become incapable of reading about history or reasoning on historical matters.
African logics is one very wonderful thing indeed.
Thank God I studied in France.

macof:


Dull fellow, you claim to study mathematics in France and want to tell what applies as African history? Soon farmers will be trying to be astronauts

The very history of France or origin of the early Gallic people wasn't written as all these things were happening, yet the earliest written work by Romans and Greeks on their structure is held in scepticism. The origin of the later Frankish invaders were not recorded as it was happening. Yet through traditions and linguistics we have been able to pin point the origins of the Franks and early history of the Gallic

historyworld030:
Look, you are not smart, so stop believing you are.
I am very smart, i hate to say it and if you were smart enough, I wouldn't need to tell you how smart I am.
You can't even debate with me.
Let me inform you once again that if an event is not recorded soon after it happens, then it is not called history.

lx3as:
Until you people engaged in more researches then your hearts will be open to knowledge!

Some scholars of history have failed because they allowed emotions to be cloud there beliefs and some are lazy and proposed rubbish which they taught their students.

Findings over the time have pointed out that there was not just one Oduduwa nor one Oranmiyan. These later became titles and names that many rulers and princes beared or adopted in Ife, hence the confusion.

Just like the OP wrote, there are some oral traditions that pointed to creation of the World in Ife; there are some that point to migrations from the East with earliest one from probably from Mesopotamia (with some religious people erroneously pointing to Mecca and Israel) and others from Egypt, Cush, Spain through Morocco. They are all correct depending on the one you choose to believe.

nobaga:
While I share Ajayi-Bebe feelings about the intentional exclusion of Lagosians from the scheme put together by Tinubu from Oragbiji in Osun State, Ajayi affiliation conceding Lagos Island to Benin is misplaced.

Bini itself is Yoruba regardless of the politics of the day. The ligua franca in Bini palace until recently was Yoruba, their gods are Yoruba and the names of the royals until recently are Yoruba.

Oduduwa came before Christ and existed not only in Yoruba history buy in that of their cousins worldwide including Ijaw before Ikalehan appearance in the 14th century.

Ajayi-Bembe cannot reconcile that by claiming Bini and Awori are the same. That is pure self serving. He can get away with that by claiming all Yoruba are cousins.

Aromire own Isale Eko a descendant of Ogunfimonire, an Awori from Ife own Lagos from Isheri to Isale Eko.

https://www.nairaland.com/4018415/ogiso-bini-ijaw-came-ile-ife#59914051

Olu317:
Ever since the BINI stopped the Yoruba language in 1934 as a franca lingual in their king's court

nobaga:
Historyworld030,

Those that cannot make logical argument throw insults. Please make your point.

The Oba you referred to started this recent confusion in his book. If you read that book, you would have known he was fluent in Yoruba.

He translated Ile ibinu in Yoruba. He stated his Yoruba title and name. He never disputed his Yoruba kin only threw monkey wrench with Oduduwa as Ikanlederan.

Ask yourself if that is the same Adumu Ijaw know as Oduduwa, or Itskiri, Urhobo, Dahomey or Benin Republic, Ghana, Sierra Leone, Cuba, Haiti, Brazil etc know.

Who heard about the new Edo translation of Oduduwa in history?

historyworld030:
This is one of the reasons I really dislike yoruba people. Why do you keep making all these laughable claims ?
Can you provide any proof of the Palace of Omo n'Oba n'Edo ever speaking yoruba ?
The Oba was visited by countless europeans in the middle ages and none of them said "he was speaking yoruba", actually your yoruba didn't even exist as a people nor as a land. The reason why people hate you guys is that not only you are inventing your "history", but you want to rewrite other people's to suit your previous creations. Our history is well documented in the british museum and in several european libraries. You people keep trying to steal our history by claiming everything which is ours.
The british stole our Bronzes from our Oba Ovonramwen's palace, and then the yoruba went on to claim that they taught the Edo how to make that Bronze. Even the title of our King "Oba" you people copied. You also had to go on and claim we were from ife. You had to go on and claim that our Kings used to be buried in ife...Why are you guys obsessed with us, let us be !!!!!
The worse is that you idiots don't even know our name, we are not "bini" we are Edo ! You are trying to rewrite our history while you don't even know our name.

Opiletool:


No need to argue with you, because you are hell bent on being stupid. And this fool claimed he studied in France, what a waste of money. Just close the thread and your so called foolishness in the guise of logic.
You BINI [yes I call you guys Bini, kill yourself] people can never be at par with us let alone being superior. You answer our names we don't answer your name, you worship our gods we don't worship yours [that is if you have any], we will forever be superior to you because we are bigger and better. If you develop HBP whenever you hear that, then don't you ever start any foolishness by writing any long winded drivel in the name of throwing logic to history, or better still, go and use your ignorance infested logic to tell the history of your people without lumping the Yorubas with your sick generation. Cretin.

historyworld030:
This is one of the reasons I really dislike yoruba people. Why do you keep making all these laughable claims ?
Can you provide any proof of the Palace of Omo n'Oba n'Edo ever speaking yoruba ?
The Oba was visited by countless europeans in the middle ages and none of them said "he was speaking yoruba", actually your yoruba didn't even exist as a people nor as a land. The reason why people hate you guys is that not only you are inventing your "history", but you want to rewrite other people's to suit your previous creations. Our history is well documented in the british museum and in several european libraries. You people keep trying to steal our history by claiming everything which is ours.
The british stole our Bronzes from our Oba Ovonramwen's palace, and then the yoruba went on to claim that they taught the Edo how to make that Bronze. Even the title of our King "Oba" you people copied. You also had to go on and claim we were from ife. You had to go on and claim that our Kings used to be buried in ife...Why are you guys obsessed with us, let us be !!!!!
The worse is that you idiots don't even know our name, we are not "bini" we are Edo ! You are trying to rewrite our history while you don't even know our name.

historyworld030:
I was having a logical conversation with logical arguments and you needed to throw a mythological figure "Oduduwa" into it ?
Is your head OK ?
Soon the Haussas will start claiming that the Oba of Benin is Haussa and that his court speeks haussa as their official language and that he never denied his haussa kins ...
Everybody can play that game, that is why one must provide proof when he makes a claim.
Just one question also: if I learn yoruba now and speak it fluently, are you also going to start claiming that yoruba is the "lingua franca" in my family and that for thousands of years we have been speaking yoruba ?
I am just saying this because there is no logical substance in your argumentation.
Get yourself a functionning brain.

historyworld030:
This is one of the reasons I really dislike yoruba people. Why do you keep making all these laughable claims ?
Can you provide any proof of the Palace of Omo n'Oba n'Edo ever speaking yoruba ?
The Oba was visited by countless europeans in the middle ages and none of them said "he was speaking yoruba", actually your yoruba didn't even exist as a people nor as a land. The reason why people hate you guys is that not only you are inventing your "history", but you want to rewrite other people's to suit your previous creations. Our history is well documented in the british museum and in several european libraries. You people keep trying to steal our history by claiming everything which is ours.
The british stole our Bronzes from our Oba Ovonramwen's palace, and then the yoruba went on to claim that they taught the Edo how to make that Bronze. Even the title of our King "Oba" you people copied. You also had to go on and claim we were from ife. You had to go on and claim that our Kings used to be buried in ife...Why are you guys obsessed with us, let us be !!!!!
The worse is that you idiots don't even know our name, we are not "bini" we are Edo ! You are trying to rewrite our history while you don't even know our name.

PrinceOgun:
[[s]quote author=Olu317 post=62770355]Thanks this points posted.Bini worship ESU, OSA, (GOD), OLOKUN, IFA (The one that was taken to IDU by Oranmiyan through his priests). It is because of these nonchalant attitude by the keeper of Yoruba history at ILE IFE that gave some of these Edo paper historians, who knows nothing about the lineage of Oba Owoka in Bini that try to distort history. Other groups in Edo may necessary not be linked to Yoruba except through marriage but BINI is an established kingdom of Yoruba man. And if they chose not to be part of Yoruba, then let us let them be. I am not even supportive of them being part of Yoruba because they are Natural with history distortion. [/s]




TRASH AS USUAL!!!!

WHAT STUPID NAMES AND WHAT STUPID USELESS GODS!


OOOH LORD , I AM NOT SURPRISED, LIES FULL UNA BLOOD

historyworld030:

Sometimes I am afraid that when my wife gives birth to my baby, some yoruba will come and claim that my baby is actually fathered by a yoruba and not me. The yoruba efforts to devide the Edo people looks so desperate. They come to us and tell us that they know us more than we know ourselves. They tell us that they know us more than actual historical documents (which are kept in european libraries and museums). They come and tell us they know our kings better than we do, they claim that they know our arts better than we do, and finally they claim that those of us who live in the capital (Benin City) are yoruba. They claim that our capital is a kingdom and "a yoruba kingdom". These fools still don't know that Benin City and Benin Kingdom are not the same thing ! Benin City is only the capital of Benin Kingdom !!! Benin City is a city in a kingdom !! Not the Kingdom itself ! Edo state itself is just a small part of the ancient Benin Kingdom. And the name of our people irrespective of where they live in the kingdom is Edo.
Just imagine Norwegians claiming that the people of paris are vikings while the rest of france is whatever.
These people don't know the first thing about us but they want to own our history and keep pushing incredible claims.

historyworld030:
Some ancient maps of Benin Kingdom:

This one dates to around 1699:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595525w/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8469390z/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

An other map from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595527q/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

Olu317:
Thanks this points posted.Bini worship ESU, OSA, (GOD), OLOKUN, IFA (The one that was taken to IDU by Oranmiyan through his priests). It is because of these nonchalant attitude by the keeper of Yoruba history at ILE IFE that gave some of these Edo paper historians, who knows nothing about the lineage of Oba Owoka in Bini that try to distort history. Other groups in Edo may necessary not be linked to Yoruba except through marriage but BINI is an established kingdom of Yoruba man. And if they chose not to be part of Yoruba, then let us let them be. I am not even supportive of them being part of Yoruba because they are Natural with history distortion.

Opiletool:


Exactly bro. I don't see the need trying to lump some ungrateful and irrational people with us.

Olu317:
Yes ooo, you are correct. Thank God, there is internet in which social media is used to tell our own story by ourselves. They even thought the man generally referred to as Odu'a was identified with with that name, when in fact, he was called different names.... These people called IDU can make me laugh.....Ogiso ko Osigo ni.....