Christistruth00:


This was hundreds of years before Islam reached present day Nigeria,they were all pagans back then.

Odua and his people were not pagan. If you don't know much about Yoruba history, then forget it or learn from those who have knowledge of Yoruba people's history, even with evidence. If you don't know Yoruba had a supreme lord known as Èlèdumare, Olorun,Éléda and owner of life and creator of the first word spoken (ọ̀rọ̀) known as Ela,countless years ago then you need to pick up books to read more about Yoruba history and cosmology. From the period the people known today existed, they had knowledge of God. And nearly all the deities today were humans that were Yoruba people and lived before their death and transformation to the status of deity.So, Yoruba were not pagan from time immemorial. Even, when the Greeks thought Zeus was the one that suspended the earth on his arm, Yoruba had known the Eledumare, who can't be compared to any and can't die but ageless, according to some corpus in Odu Ifa.



Cheers

Egharevba’s A short History of Benin is the only thorough account of Bini owing to the access of the informant’s used in the work to the true nature and oral tradition of the ealier centuries. Egharevba collected his data from the generation that was very much connected to the primordial times and their informations were very much straight to the point because they had no agenda influenced by the politics and economics brought about Nigerian state and as well as the boundary problems attendant to it.

Most Bini works that followed this, especially the one by their king, is nothing but a paper driven by irredentism and chauvinism that began with the nationalistic urge to create Mid-Western region out of Western region when a harmless speech was given at a congress where Ooni and some Yoruba obas were recognized and the Oba Bini wasn’t.

A whole lot of Bini people have latched on to this nationalistic feeling driven by chauvinism and when Egharevba’s work is referenced they brush it to the side claiming Egharevba’s mother was Yoruba, hence he was not only influenced to be subjective by that, it also influenced the light under which he painted the Yoruba. An attempt to throw the man’s seminal work into dustbin.

Interestingly, Egharevba was at no time connected with Yoruba by blood. He had migrant relatives who dotted few places in Yoruba land & other area - this is normal for everyone, he was at no time Yoruba.

See the screen shot attached below & please consider saving it for future use in the case they come with the ‘His mother was Yoruba’ narratives.

[s]

Y0ruba:
Egharevba’s A short History of Benin is the only thorough account of Bini owing to the access of the informant’s used in the work to the true nature and oral tradition of the ealier centuries. Egharevba collected his data from the generation that was very much connected to the primordial times and their informations were very much straight to the point because they had no agenda influenced by the politics and economics brought about Nigerian state and as well as the boundary problems attendant to it.

Most Bini works that followed this, especially the one by their king, is nothing but a paper driven by irredentism and chauvinism that began with the nationalistic urge to create Mid-Western region out of Western region when a harmless speech was given at a congress where Ooni and some Yoruba obas were recognized and the Oba Bini wasn’t.

A whole lot of Bini people have latched on to this nationalistic feeling driven by chauvinism and when Egharevba’s work is referenced they brush it to the side claiming Egharevba’s mother was Yoruba, hence he was not only influenced to be subjective by that, it also influenced the light under which he painted the Yoruba. An attempt to throw the man’s seminal work into dustbin.

Interestingly, Egharevba was at no time connected with Yoruba by blood. He had migrant relatives who dotted few places in Yoruba land & other area - this is normal for everyone, he was at no time Yoruba.

See the screen shot attached below & please consider saving it for future use in the case they come with the ‘His mother was Yoruba’ narratives.

[/s]

TRASH!!

Egaraveba was an Edo"na'kue (half Edo , half Yoruba from the mother)

Everyone knows this !!

Infact he was a bastard!!

Y0ruba:
Egharevba’s A short History of Benin is the only thorough account of Bini owing to the access of the informant’s used in the work to the true nature and oral tradition of the ealier centuries. Egharevba collected his data from the generation that was very much connected to the primordial times and their informations were very much straight to the point because they had no agenda influenced by the politics and economics brought about Nigerian state and as well as the boundary problems attendant to it.

Most Bini works that followed this, especially the one by their king, is nothing but a paper driven by irredentism and chauvinism that began with the nationalistic urge to create Mid-Western region out of Western region when a harmless speech was given at a congress where Ooni and some Yoruba obas were recognized and the Oba Bini wasn’t.

A whole lot of Bini people have latched on to this nationalistic feeling driven by chauvinism and when Egharevba’s work is referenced they brush it to the side claiming Egharevba’s mother was Yoruba, hence he was not only influenced to be subjective by that, it also influenced the light under which he painted the Yoruba. An attempt to throw the man’s seminal work into dustbin.

Interestingly, Egharevba was at no time connected with Yoruba by blood. He had migrant relatives who dotted few places in Yoruba land & other area - this is normal for everyone, he was at no time Yoruba.

See the screen shot attached below & please consider saving it for future use in the case they come with the ‘His mother was Yoruba’ narratives.

Thanks for this info. Eledumare will add more to your understanding

Y0ruba:
Speculations borne out of ignorance on Ife history reeks everywhere on the pages of this thread. This is not a big deal, seasoned Historians have, since Frobenius brought Ife into limelight, struggled to dig into the history of Ife early state.

————-

Yoruba people, specifically the people of Ife are an ancient pre-literate society who did not keep records [important or otherwise] in writing but explored other methods bothering on the memory hinged upon spatial, politics, economic and social.

Oduduwa is the widely acclaimed father of Yoruba monarchy and his existence and position in the Yoruba world has been expressed through several theoretical angles which include the descent from the sky theory and migration theory.

Both theories need to be assessed in bits in order to conclude upon their veracity or need to be scrapped:

The sky theory is religious in nature. Ife the seat of Oduduwa is the sacred city of the Yoruba and a religious center where every compound claim descent from a deity contained in the pantheon of 201 gods [201 on earth, 200 in heaven equally 401 in total sum], these deities in Ife are revered and held in awe so much that the historical records surrounded them are enmeshed in spiritual myth in order to protect an unfavourble historical event, keep sacred spaces in secret, preserve ritual activities and retain the prestige associated with the deity to mention a few. Every deity in Ife enjoys [or suffers from] this phenomenon of mythical tales but they have come to gather so much traction in that the actual history is slowly being forgotten. Oduduwa is not exempt from this situation and this is where the sky descent comes from.

Migration theory of Oduduwa coming from the ‘East’ is very curious. Not to take away from the Yoruba as a whole but at what point did Yoruba people as a whole define the cardinal points of ‘North, South, East and West’ to have come up with Oduduwa coming from the East theory? Research shows that the Arabia/Mecca theory began with Sultan Bello who, in his conversation with Clapperton referred to the Oyo people of Katunga which they [the Pulloh/Hausa] referred to as Yarba and regarded as their co-migrant from Mecca.

Fast forward to the 18th century when the returnee slaves, explorers and missionaries began to flock Yoruba land, they figured the peoples were the same but with no collective nomenclature, they decided to borrow the Oyo name of Yoruba as well as Nago and Aku to refer to the nation as one unit.

Overtime the entire group became referred to as Yoruba and this is where the Samuel Johnson the Historian whose work is a seminal one recounted the Mecca theory but applied Yoruba anachronistically as used in his work. This gave birth to the rise in the popularity of the Mecca theory which Sultan Bello, the Pulloh king, narrated about Yoruba [the Oyo] and later became a national story due to the later encompassing cognomen Yoruba/Yoruba effected my migrants. His application of ‘Yoruba’ in his work also created the position of Alaafin & Ooni’s in Yoruba monarchy debacle; he referred to everyone as Yoruba and the Alaafin at the time wrote a letter to the colonialists referring to himself as the ‘King of Yoruba’ [an idea which the colonialists worked with when they set up government proper until they began to effect corrections during Ooni Aderemi’s time] to Had Samuel Johnson defined or provided a contextual analysis of the Yoruba nomenclature, the monarchy hierachy problem that rages on today would not have reared its head.

Of course, the recent decade witnessed the postulation of the Bini theory of Ekahledaherb/Izoduwa solely based on ignorance of the the Mecca migration, Yoruba/Yoruba etymology as well as ignorance of thr etymology and meaning of the word Oduduwa. The proponents latched on to their [Bini] position being to the East of Ife like many other towns and further explored the impossibility of sky descent as well as the flaw in the Mecca angle, a theory to which many Yoruba have been grappling to give a response to.

To find the background and history of Oduduwa, one has to refer to the methods employed by the pre-literate Yoruba society in recording history as mentioned in the first paragraph. This includes festivals, a periodic event that is not of fun-fair to the people of Ife but a period of the re-enactment of actual historical event. Within these festivals abound the processions identifying sacred spatial spots; in these festivals abound chants/songs narrating events; within these festivals abound re-enactment of physical activities of importance that happened in the past.

Thus, for information on Oduduwa, the coronation of the Ooni is vital, the compounds that were/are known to have been loyal to him or played important role for him in his days such as Idio clan; and finally, the compounds of the group that antagonized his rise and enthronement. All of these groups/compounds have festivals revolving around Oduduea and they require to be studied for a narrative to be developed from each and strung together in a chronological order.

The Yoruba had a pattern of recording historical account despite its challenges.

1.Oral account
2. Ébi system
3. Right to rule through divine means
4. Sculpture
5. Importance of Ram as sacrifices to Odua
6. His form of worshiping God that included using of pigeon /white cork /doves



These six reason has revealed the identity of who Odua was and didn't descended from anywhere in the present day Nigeria.

SicilianMafia:
[s][/s]

TRASH!!

Egaraveba was an Edo"na'kue (half Edo , half Yoruba from the mother)

Everyone knows this !!

Infact he was a bastard!!

Both of his parents were Edo. His mother, Okunzuwa was the granddaughter of Ogie Ezomo 1. Who was commander of Benins Army so Egharevba knew what he was talking about.

Christistruth00:
Both of his parents were Edo. His mother, Okunzuwa was the granddaughter of Ogie Ezomo 1. Who was commander of Benins Army so Egharevba knew what he was talking about.

You are not Edo so when I talk you keep that hole shut!!

Hus mother was of the Yoruba Ondo stock so don't talk nonsense , face your osun / Oyo faurytales and fvvck off Edo matters!!

SicilianMafia:
[s][/s]

TRASH!!

Egaraveba was an Edo"na'kue (half Edo , half Yoruba from the mother)

Everyone knows this !!

Infact he was a bastard!!

I don’t know who you are & what authority you possess to speak on another man’s ancestry.

The screenshot attached to the post shows the man’s ancestry, if this was wrong the Bini king at that time who followed the work would have vetoed it.

His mother’s name was Okunzuwa and she was of Ezomo’s descent.

Whatever opinion you have is your problem. The man aldready stated the ancestry of his father and mother.

Cheers.

Olu317:
Odua and his people were not pagan. If you don't know much about Yoruba history, then forget it or learn from those who have knowledge of Yoruba people's history, even with evidence. If you don't know Yoruba had a supreme lord known as Èlèdumare, Olorun,Éléda and owner of life and creator of the first word spoken (óró) known as Ela,countless years ago then you need to pick up books to read more about Yoruba history and cosmology. From the period the people known today existed, they had knowledge of God. And nearly all the deities today were humans that were Yoruba people and lived before their death and transformation to the status of deity.So, Yoruba were not pagan from time immemorial. Even, when the Greeks thought Zeus was the one that suspended the earth on his arm, Yoruba had known the Eledumare, who can't be compared to any and can't die but ageless, according to some corpus in Odu Ifa.



Cheers

I am not quite sure in what context you’ve used the term ‘pagan’ but it caught my interest.

Pagans were originally those who practised ancient greek polytheistic belief system.

With Christianity and Islam in place, a pagan is now any person who practices any belief system outside these two.

So, contrary to what you wrote, Yoruba have been polytheistic since time immemorial. Outside of an Olodumare who is inactive and uninterested in human affairs, Yoruba’s worship splits in fives places - Ori eni as number one followed by, Ori Iya eni, Ori Baba eni, Ikin eni and Irunmole [Orisa eni]. These are the 5 ‘deities’ the Yoruba worship fervently which makes them polytheistic from time immemorial.

Olu317:
The Yoruba had a pattern of recording historical account despite its challenges.

1.Oral account
2. Ébi system
3. Right to rule through divine means
4. Sculpture
5. Importance of Ram as sacrifices to Odua
6. His form of worshiping God that included using of pigeon /white cork /doves



These six reason has revealed the identity of who Odua was and didn't descended from anywhere in the present day Nigeria.

I don’t know what you’re on about with this post but it apppears you’re a proponent and a pursuer of the hamitic hypothesis.

Also, I do not know where you got the information listed as your item 5 from but I can bet you do not know the importance & reason for it. Let me also remind you that Oranmiyan is also fed the same thing, a white ram.

To cut the whole thing short, Oduduwa was from Ife and there are families apart from his [Idio] who know his background, identity & exploits.

Some of these families are;

- Ijio family; they received or met with Oduduwa when he left Oke Ora [which was excavated by Eluyemi, an Ife man who was Apena of Ogboni Ife at the time];

- Odin clan of Obameri; they share a very strong affinity with Idio clan of Oduduwa. This stemmed from the bond Oduduwa and Obameri shared. Obameri followed Oduduwa everywhere; this is done today, Lokore [Obameri] follows Odadio [Oduduwa] and play important roles in Oduduwa’s festival.

- Baba Sigidi clan; this group have a close affinity with Oduduwa too. The family shared very historical exploits with the man back in the day. They possess vital information on the man.

There are a number of other houses loyal to Oduduwa and have information on him.

It will interest you to know the man’s cognomen is Oduduwa but his real name was Osin Ora.

He didnnot migrate from anywhere, he was a thorough Ife man who was nothing more than a smart usurper. According him outside source is an unnecessary stretch serving no purpose but for baseless arguments and falsified narratives that are imaginative at best as we have seen with Egypt, Mecca, Benin & Heaven narratives.

To put your number 1 to 6 items to good use, go to Ile-Ife.

1. Oral: Visit Ijio, Odin and Oke’jan in Ife to get proper oral account of Oduduwa and his exploits.

2. For Ebi: Visit Oduduwa’s first palace at Idio. Go to his shrine, observe & discuss with the priests. Hang around at the Idio compound to speak with his family there.

3. Divine: Go to Oke Itase compound, it is directly beside Oduduwa’s palace and opposite Ogun’s palace [the present Ooni’s palace]. Odudwa directed Ifa to stay there as his diviner & Idio clan members were also learning Ifa there. Go to this place to get information bordering on divine.

4. Sculpture: Oduduwa is the only diety with no sculpture in Ife because he was killed [strange story eh?] only awos know this & I won’t drop further information on that. Sculpture didn’t start properly until the time of Obalufon Alayemore. So sculpture won’t tell you nothing on Oduduwa.

5. Ram: Go to Eredumi town in Ife, meet with Chief Eredumi the priest of Oranmiyan, he is the one who kills the white ram with Odudwa’s sword during Oduduwa’s festival.

6. Pigeons/Cocks: all of that is irrelevant as practically all deities take that. Even Edan [iba] collect those, Ori takes those & so on.

So except you’ve explored Ife in & out, you really have 0 knowledge on Oduduwa and what you have are mere arm chair analysis/stories. As Awolowo and Ladoke Akintola both belong to all Yoruba people, only Ikenne and Ogbomoso have detailed history about their early life. This is same for Oduduwa, the man & his exploits are Ife property and it is why Ife is the only place he is worshipped. Ife alone can tell you what the sourceof Oduduwa is, no other source.

Cheers.

Olu317:
21st OONI Luwo didn't reign in 12th century because considering the Oonis that that had lived, using Ooni Lajamisan, Lajado-ogun and Lafogido respectively that lived before and around 12th century. Precisely around beginning of 12th century,Lafogido was the Ooni.These Oonis position were 8th,9th,10th respectively. Categorically, Oranmiyan lived during 11th century.

It appears you tried to give a source to Lajoodoun by writing it as Lajado-Ogun.

Lajoodogun is a fusion of ‘Alade ju iyi ti o di ologun lo’. It first morphed info Aladejuologun then to Lajoodogun.

Olu317:
My dear brother, a lot need be done .The reality is that they find Yoruba story very hard to believe because of the certain tradition peculiar to them. Don't blame the white because, they were looking for a lost people, whom the white have read about in the Bible. However, I strongly believe that most of these professors are not looking at the right place for Yoruba history,which is best known to them. Egypt has record of people that had lived there over thousands of years and Yoruba at one time lived in that country but under a different name. Have you for once, ask why and what does Ora mean in Yoruba?There are many names in Yoruba land today that has similarity with ancient names of Egypt, yet these historians always try to subdue the truth or try to knock it off. Until lately that some scholars have begun to agree that ILE IFE had moved to different locations for more than 7 times. A lot need be done to perfect our history from where we migrated from. In due season, we will get there.

When exactly was this lately and please mention the scholars that have agreed to this claim, LOL.

Sir you are somewhat late to the scene o if you’re a Historian or an Archeologist that is. Frank Willet’s findings [after Frobenius’] already put this your hypothesis to rest.

Ife is regarded in History and Archeology as one of the few settlements that has remained on its original site since its inception. Ife has never ever moved from its original site.

The only time Ife moved was when they headed to Isoya [Ife farms along Ondo Road] as at the time Modakeke sacked their town during the Yoruba internecine wars but the Ife people were brought back and begged to settle in their town by Bashorun Ogunmola [or Ibikunle, can’t remember which specifically right now but see Samuel Johnson’s A History of the Yorubas from the Earlest times].

The second other time they appeared to have moved was during of one the Modakeke wars but it was more of a dispersal further into extensions of Ife quarters.

See what Robert Smith had to say in his Kingdoms of Yoruba work.

Y0ruba:


When exactly was this lately and please mention the scholars that have agreed to this claim, LOL.

Sir you are somewhat late to the scene o if you’re a Historian or an Archeologist that is. Frank Willet’s findings [after Frobenius’] already put this your hypothesis to rest.

Ife is regarded in History and Archeology as one of the few settlements that has remained on its original site since its inception. Ife has never ever moved from its original site.

The only time Ife moved was when they headed to Isoya [Ife farms along Ondo Road] as at the time Modakeke sacked their town during the Yoruba internecine wars but the Ife people were brought back and begged to settle in their town by Bashorun Ogunmola [or Ibikunle, can’t remember which specifically right now but see Samuel Johnson’s A History of the Yorubas from the Earlest times].

The second other time they appeared to have moved was during of one the Modakeke wars but it was more of a dispersal further into extensions of Ife quarters.

See what Robert Smith had to say in his Kingdoms of Yoruba work.

Well,well,let be behave as a student of history to learn from your knowledge. However, ILE IFE has been moved different times. Even professor Obayemi agreed and researched it. ILE IFE begged who? You are indeed funny, reading Samuel Johnson sensational book that defaulted in many ways.The same book that couldn't Identify what Ooni mean? . Anyway, ILE IFE didn't beg but sons of Ooni returned and fought their way back and chase modakeke . Have you forgotten that Ibadan was the engine room that did that and they paid dearly for it. My own great grand father fought along side with his siblings and loyalists for it.

Y0ruba:


I don’t know what you’re on about with this post but it apppears you’re a proponent and a pursuer of the hamitic hypothesis.

Also, I do not know where you got the information listed as your item 5 from but I can bet you do not know the importance & reason for it. Let me also remind you that Oranmiyan is also fed the same thing, a white ram.

To cut the whole thing short, Oduduwa was from Ife and there are families apart from his [Idio] who know his background, identity & exploits.

Some of these families are;

- Ijio family; they received or met with Oduduwa when he left Oke Ora [which was excavated by Eluyemi, an Ife man who was Apena of Ogboni Ife at the time];

- Odin clan of Obameri; they share a very strong affinity with Idio clan of Oduduwa. This stemmed from the bond Oduduwa and Obameri shared. Obameri followed Oduduwa everywhere; this is done today, Lokore [Obameri] follows Odadio [Oduduwa] and play important roles in Oduduwa’s festival.

- Baba Sigidi clan; this group have a close affinity with Oduduwa too. The family shared very historical exploits with the man back in the day. They possess vital information on the man.

There are a number of other houses loyal to Oduduwa and have information on him.

It will interest you to know the man’s cognomen is Oduduwa but his real name was Osin Ora.

He didnnot migrate from anywhere, he was a thorough Ife man who was nothing more than a smart usurper. According him outside source is an unnecessary stretch serving no purpose but for baseless arguments and falsified narratives that are imaginative at best as we have seen with Egypt, Mecca, Benin & Heaven narratives.

To put your number 1 to 6 items to good use, go to Ile-Ife.

1. Oral: Visit Ijio, Odin and Oke’jan in Ife to get proper oral account of Oduduwa and his exploits.

2. For Ebi: Visit Oduduwa’s first palace at Idio. Go to his shrine, observe & discuss with the priests. Hang around at the Idio compound to speak with his family there.

3. Divine: Go to Oke Itase compound, it is directly beside Oduduwa’s palace and opposite Ogun’s palace [the present Ooni’s palace]. Odudwa directed Ifa to stay there as his diviner & Idio clan members were also learning Ifa there. Go to this place to get information bordering on divine.

4. Sculpture: Oduduwa is the only diety with no sculpture in Ife because he was killed [strange story eh?] only awos know this & I won’t drop further information on that. Sculpture didn’t start properly until the time of Obalufon Alayemore. So sculpture won’t tell you nothing on Oduduwa.

5. Ram: Go to Eredumi town in Ife, meet with Chief Eredumi the priest of Oranmiyan, he is the one who kills the white ram with Odudwa’s sword during Oduduwa’s festival.

6. Pigeons/Cocks: all of that is irrelevant as practically all deities take that. Even Edan [iba] collect those, Ori takes those & so on.

So except you’ve explored Ife in & out, you really have 0 knowledge on Oduduwa and what you have are mere arm chair analysis/stories. As Awolowo and Ladoke Akintola both belong to all Yoruba people, only Ikenne and Ogbomoso have detailed history about their early life. This is same for Oduduwa, the man & his exploits are Ife property and it is why Ife is the only place he is worshipped. Ife alone can tell you what the sourceof Oduduwa is, no other source.

Cheers.

You have tried to analyze your perception but still this opinion is well fit for someone who had no knowledge of Odua. Killed Odua? Which Awo knows it? There is nothing I won't find online! Before Oranmiyan , few ooni had reigned and he chased Alayemore away from the throne when he arrived. Like I had mentioned, those things were alien to any part within Nigeria's territory. Like I have mentioned in the list,in which you blundered because Odua lived many years on earth and saw his grandchildren. The ram sacrifice didn't started from Orannmiyan because I know it too well. In fact, the sacrifices adduced to Oranmiyan came after he had gone to great beyond . I know where the King's palace is located. Usurper what? You must be joking! ILE IFE had no king but Agba Ilu and Priestly leader. Odua was the one that transformed ILE IFE. Once again you were referring to places of settlement of odua descendants. Have you forgotten the Derin Ologbenla was Ooni and the founder of Oke Igbo?Don't know that most of the descendants of Oranmiyan are always away from ILE IFE? . Lastly, there was particular place that you can point to as you claimed. Professor Eluyemi did not proof anything about the original place of Adimunia /Adimulia Origin.

Y0ruba:


I don’t know what you’re on about with this post but it apppears you’re a proponent and a pursuer of the hamitic hypothesis.

Also, I do not know where you got the information listed as your item 5 from but I can bet you do not know the importance & reason for it. Let me also remind you that Oranmiyan is also fed the same thing, a white ram.

To cut the whole thing short, Oduduwa was from Ife and there are families apart from his [Idio] who know his background, identity & exploits.

Some of these families are;

- Ijio family; they received or met with Oduduwa when he left Oke Ora [which was excavated by Eluyemi, an Ife man who was Apena of Ogboni Ife at the time];

- Odin clan of Obameri; they share a very strong affinity with Idio clan of Oduduwa. This stemmed from the bond Oduduwa and Obameri shared. Obameri followed Oduduwa everywhere; this is done today, Lokore [Obameri] follows Odadio [Oduduwa] and play important roles in Oduduwa’s festival.

- Baba Sigidi clan; this group have a close affinity with Oduduwa too. The family shared very historical exploits with the man back in the day. They possess vital information on the man.

There are a number of other houses loyal to Oduduwa and have information on him.

It will interest you to know the man’s cognomen is Oduduwa but his real name was Osin Ora.

He didnnot migrate from anywhere, he was a thorough Ife man who was nothing more than a smart usurper. According him outside source is an unnecessary stretch serving no purpose but for baseless arguments and falsified narratives that are imaginative at best as we have seen with Egypt, Mecca, Benin & Heaven narratives.

To put your number 1 to 6 items to good use, go to Ile-Ife.

1. Oral: Visit Ijio, Odin and Oke’jan in Ife to get proper oral account of Oduduwa and his exploits.

2. For Ebi: Visit Oduduwa’s first palace at Idio. Go to his shrine, observe & discuss with the priests. Hang around at the Idio compound to speak with his family there.

3. Divine: Go to Oke Itase compound, it is directly beside Oduduwa’s palace and opposite Ogun’s palace [the present Ooni’s palace]. Odudwa directed Ifa to stay there as his diviner & Idio clan members were also learning Ifa there. Go to this place to get information bordering on divine.

4. Sculpture: Oduduwa is the only diety with no sculpture in Ife because he was killed [strange story eh?] only awos know this & I won’t drop further information on that. Sculpture didn’t start properly until the time of Obalufon Alayemore. So sculpture won’t tell you nothing on Oduduwa.

5. Ram: Go to Eredumi town in Ife, meet with Chief Eredumi the priest of Oranmiyan, he is the one who kills the white ram with Odudwa’s sword during Oduduwa’s festival.

6. Pigeons/Cocks: all of that is irrelevant as practically all deities take that. Even Edan [iba] collect those, Ori takes those & so on.

So except you’ve explored Ife in & out, you really have 0 knowledge on Oduduwa and what you have are mere arm chair analysis/stories. As Awolowo and Ladoke Akintola both belong to all Yoruba people, only Ikenne and Ogbomoso have detailed history about their early life. This is same for Oduduwa, the man & his exploits are Ife property and it is why Ife is the only place he is worshipped. Ife alone can tell you what the sourceof Oduduwa is, no other source.

Cheers.

You have tried to analyze your perception but still this opinion is well fit for someone who had no knowledge of Odua. Killed Odua? Which Awo knows it? There is nothing I won't find online! Anyway, Odua lived many years on earth and saw his grandchildren. And one of his greatest descendant was Odédè known also as oranyan who reigned but before his reign , few oonis had reigned and he chased Alayemore away from the throne when he arrived. Like I had mentioned, those things were alien to any part within West Africa territory in ancient times. Like I have mentioned in the list,in which you blundered because Odua was the one that came with Irunmole worship. The ram sacrifice didn't started from Orannmiyan because I know it too well. In fact, the sacrifices adduced to Oranmiyan came after he had gone to great beyond . I know where the King's palace is located. Usurper what? You must be joking! ILE IFE had no king but Agba Ilu and Priestly leader. Odua was the one that transformed ILE IFE. Once again you were referring to places of settlement of odua descendants. Have you forgotten Derin Ologbenla was Ooni and the founder/Baale of Oke Igbo?Don't you know that most of the descendants of Odua and Oranmiyan are always away from ILE IFE? . Likewise all other family members of Odua and they have accounts of their ancestor. Do you not know that Odua was the one that brought forth the needed method of identification of people's lineage through Ebi system ? Lastly, there was no particular place at the present day ILE IFE that professor Eluyemi pointed out at as the place of birth of Odua. And they were only able to identify settlements. You mentioned sculpture as not a pivotal to knowing odua? I am sure you had knowledge of ILE IFE prowess and wealth? it was only the peak period that Alayemore reigned. And this didn't mean Odua's period wasn't a good one because part of odu ifa corpus mentioned that Yoruba wore clothes. If you don't know ,you need to explore more on this and don't get too attached to fairy tale books.

Cheers

Y0ruba:



I am not quite sure in what context you’ve used the term ‘pagan’ but it caught my interest.

Pagans were originally those who practised ancient greek polytheistic belief system.

With Christianity and Islam in place, a pagan is now any person who practices any belief system outside these two.

So, contrary to what you wrote, Yoruba have been polytheistic since time immemorial. Outside of an Olodumare who is inactive and uninterested in human affairs, Yoruba’s worship splits in fives places - Ori eni as number one followed by, Ori Iya eni, Ori Baba eni, Ikin eni and Irunmole [Orisa eni]. These are the 5 ‘deities’ the Yoruba worship fervently which makes them polytheistic from time immemorial.

The ones you listed are for individual connection to Eleda. You need to read the console of Yoruba beliefs. Yes, pagan, categorically is referred to as unbeliever. And what you referred to also was because you don't know that Yoruba worship God and not the way it was painted as some Yoruba authors, have characterized Yoruba Eledumare. You have to dig deeper than what you have been reading. You quite got it wrong like some others do. No prayer can be sanctioned by any deity unless Eledumare place Asé on it. How would you now define such God known as the agelss lord God who doesn't care? Even the head of Onifas known as ARABA will tell you after a sacrifices has been prescribed that “Eledumare, a jé ki o ju é sè"(God will let it come to pass) . That's the almighty God of the Yorubas. I blame many Yoruba authors who had erroneously blundered either directly or indirectly and belittle Eledumare because, during the olden days few people were lettered in English but today, correction to the anomaly is gradually taking place. I said this because what those onifas/Babalawo meant was misunderstood because their point was to exalt the position of God beyond imagination but got on the wrong side on the medulla oblongata of the authors. Mind you, Eledumare is all supreme God /Towering God,in a literary translation which is not appropriate enough to explain the awesome of Yoruba almighty God.

Olu317:
Well,well,let be behave as a student of history to learn from your knowledge. However, ILE IFE has been moved different times. Even professor Obayemi agreed and researched it. ILE IFE begged who? You are indeed funny, reading Samuel Johnson sensational book that defaulted in many ways.The same book that couldn't Identify what Ooni mean? . Anyway, ILE IFE didn't beg but sons of Ooni returned and fought their way back and chase modakeke . Have you forgotten that Ibadan was the engine room that did that and they paid dearly for it. My own great grand father fought along side with his siblings and loyalists for it.

Professor Ade Obayemi’s theory was there were 7 different Ife, he listed his hometown ‘Ife Ijummu’ as part of these Ifes. Oral history of all of these 7 Ifes states they were founded as a result of migration from Ile-Ife. And nome of these Ifes have turned up any excavated material of antiquity. Did you even know some materials from Ife were dated to as far as 350BCE? Showing that area has been occupied for a very long time?

Samuel Johnson’s work, like every work of history had its shortcomings but his account of the internecine wars and British intervention were eye witness account of his because he participated in the mediation process.

I said Ibadan begged Ife people to return. Ife did not fight their way back, they were all trapped in Isoya with the entire town burnt and ravaged, the Ooni’s palace was not spared. This was during the time of Ooni Ademiluyi Ajagun and the same time Leo Frobenius visited Ife and discovered the Ori Olokun and so many other stuff that exposed Ife to the world as an ancient civilization.

[s]

Y0ruba:



I don’t know who you are & what authority you possess to speak on another man’s ancestry.

The screenshot attached to the post shows the man’s ancestry, if this was wrong the Bini king at that time who followed the work would have vetoed it.

His mother’s name was Okunzuwa and she was of Ezomo’s descent.

Whatever opinion you have is your problem. The man aldready stated the ancestry of his father and mother.

Cheers.

[/s]

Don't ever quote me in your life!!

Misguided fellow , better focus on Oyo/osun issues and get the fvvck of Edo matters!!

Y0ruba:


I don’t know what you’re on about with this post but it apppears you’re a proponent and a pursuer of the hamitic hypothesis.

Also, I do not know where you got the information listed as your item 5 from but I can bet you do not know the importance & reason for it. Let me also remind you that Oranmiyan is also fed the same thing, a white ram.

To cut the whole thing short, Oduduwa was from Ife and there are families apart from his [Idio] who know his background, identity & exploits.

Some of these families are;

- Ijio family; they received or met with Oduduwa when he left Oke Ora [which was excavated by Eluyemi, an Ife man who was Apena of Ogboni Ife at the time];

- Odin clan of Obameri; they share a very strong affinity with Idio clan of Oduduwa. This stemmed from the bond Oduduwa and Obameri shared. Obameri followed Oduduwa everywhere; this is done today, Lokore [Obameri] follows Odadio [Oduduwa] and play important roles in Oduduwa’s festival.

- Baba Sigidi clan; this group have a close affinity with Oduduwa too. The family shared very historical exploits with the man back in the day. They possess vital information on the man.

There are a number of other houses loyal to Oduduwa and have information on him.

It will interest you to know the man’s cognomen is Oduduwa but his real name was Osin Ora.

He didnnot migrate from anywhere, he was a thorough Ife man who was nothing more than a smart usurper. According him outside source is an unnecessary stretch serving no purpose but for baseless arguments and falsified narratives that are imaginative at best as we have seen with Egypt, Mecca, Benin & Heaven narratives.

To put your number 1 to 6 items to good use, go to Ile-Ife.

1. Oral: Visit Ijio, Odin and Oke’jan in Ife to get proper oral account of Oduduwa and his exploits.

2. For Ebi: Visit Oduduwa’s first palace at Idio. Go to his shrine, observe & discuss with the priests. Hang around at the Idio compound to speak with his family there.

3. Divine: Go to Oke Itase compound, it is directly beside Oduduwa’s palace and opposite Ogun’s palace [the present Ooni’s palace]. Odudwa directed Ifa to stay there as his diviner & Idio clan members were also learning Ifa there. Go to this place to get information bordering on divine.

4. Sculpture: Oduduwa is the only diety with no sculpture in Ife because he was killed [strange story eh?] only awos know this & I won’t drop further information on that. Sculpture didn’t start properly until the time of Obalufon Alayemore. So sculpture won’t tell you nothing on Oduduwa.

5. Ram: Go to Eredumi town in Ife, meet with Chief Eredumi the priest of Oranmiyan, he is the one who kills the white ram with Odudwa’s sword during Oduduwa’s festival.

6. Pigeons/Cocks: all of that is irrelevant as practically all deities take that. Even Edan [iba] collect those, Ori takes those & so on.

So except you’ve explored Ife in & out, you really have 0 knowledge on Oduduwa and what you have are mere arm chair analysis/stories. As Awolowo and Ladoke Akintola both belong to all Yoruba people, only Ikenne and Ogbomoso have detailed history about their early life. This is same for Oduduwa, the man & his exploits are Ife property and it is why Ife is the only place he is worshipped. Ife alone can tell you what the sourceof Oduduwa is, no other source.

Cheers.

Superb Comment. This is an Ife man for such

Your knowledge of the important families to Oduduwa is incredible. i already know your former moniker

Olu317:
You have tried to analyze your perception but still this opinion is well fit for someone who had no knowledge of Odua. Killed Odua? Which Awo knows it? There is nothing I won't find online! Before Oranmiyan , few ooni had reigned and he chased Alayemore away from the throne when he arrived. Like I had mentioned, those things were alien to any part within Nigeria's territory. Like I have mentioned in the list,in which you blundered because Odua lived many years on earth and saw his grandchildren. The ram sacrifice didn't started from Orannmiyan because I know it too well. In fact, the sacrifices adduced to Oranmiyan came after he had gone to great beyond . I know where the King's palace is located. Usurper what? You must be joking! ILE IFE had no king but Agba Ilu and Priestly leader. Odua was the one that transformed ILE IFE. Once again you were referring to places of settlement of odua descendants. Have you forgotten the Derin Ologbenla was Ooni and the founder of Oke Igbo?Don't know that most of the descendants of Oranmiyan are always away from ILE IFE? . Lastly, there was particular place that you can point to as you claimed. Professor Eluyemi did not proof anything about the original place of Adimunia /Adimulia Origin. You have tried to analyze your perception but still this opinion is well fit for someone who had no knowledge of Odua. Killed Odua? Which Awo knows it? There is nothing I won't find online! Anyway, Odua lived many years on earth and saw his grandchildren. And one of his greatest descendant was Odédè known also as oranyan who reigned but before his reign , few oonis had reigned and he chased Alayemore away from the throne when he arrived. Like I had mentioned, those things were alien to any part within West Africa territory in ancient times. Like I have mentioned in the list,in which you blundered because Odua was the one that came with Irunmole worship. The ram sacrifice didn't started from Orannmiyan because I know it too well. In fact, the sacrifices adduced to Oranmiyan came after he had gone to great beyond . I know where the King's palace is located. Usurper what? You must be joking! ILE IFE had no king but Agba Ilu and Priestly leader. Odua was the one that transformed ILE IFE. Once again you were referring to places of settlement of odua descendants. Have you forgotten Derin Ologbenla was Ooni and the founder/Baale of Oke Igbo?Don't you know that most of the descendants of Odua and Oranmiyan are always away from ILE IFE? . Likewise all other family members of Odua and they have accounts of their ancestor. Do you not know that Odua was the one that brought forth the needed method of identification of people's lineage through Ebi system ? Lastly, there was no particular place at the present day ILE IFE that professor Eluyemi pointed out at as the place of birth of Odua. And they were only able to identify settlements. You mentioned sculpture as not a pivotal to knowing odua? I am sure you had knowledge of ILE IFE prowess and wealth? it was only the peak period that Alayemore reigned. And this didn't mean Odua's period wasn't a good one because part of odu ifa corpus mentioned that Yoruba wore clothes. If you don't know ,you need to explore more on this and don't get too attached to fairy tale books.

Cheers

You’re a very interesting person LOL.

I can place a bet of whatever to prove you’ve never been to Ile-Ife before and your tales are of your imaginations but that is your choice anyway.

As I said, I will not be speaking further on that. If you are that curious to know, go to Idio compound to find out what happened to the man.

How did you know he lived a long time to see his grand children? You almost said that like you both were contemporaries.

Oduduwa did not come wirh Irunmole’s worship. Ife already had deities for every natural phenomenon. Great men of yore were deified and pegged to each Irunmole. Something like how Sango the Alaafin passed and was pegged to Jakuta the actual god of thunder. All the Orisa, including Oduduwa already existed in Ife before all the greatmen later associated with them. This provided the duality in Yoruba system where each deity has a human history and a spiritual side. The spiritual tale to a deity is the tale woven around the deity before the human deified with it. Apparently, you’re not into these things but a fan from the sidelines developing his own narratives.

Ile-Ife had no King indeed but the Agba Ife system had periodic heads. Oduduwa usurped this using violence and was killed in the long haul. Oduduwa himself was not ‘king’ in the real sense, he shared power with Obatala accounting for why there were two palaces, Idio and Idita at opposite ends facing each other. True kingship system did not begin in Ile-Ife until Obalufon Alayemore who developee the art and state system. I am sure you didn’t know this too because you’ve never been to Ife but continue to conduct your arm chair analysis.

Uncle, the problem with your knowledge is that it is based on your own imagination and hearsay. You have never been to Ife, this is evident from things you’ve been posting on Ife thus far, yet you keep pushing unfounded narratives. Only 8 out of Oduduwa's children moved out, the rest were grand children. A good number of his children stayed back in Ife, some residing in their mother’s quarters or founded theirs within Ife. So no, they are not always away. Not many of them were away anyways.

Either you take or leave it. Eluyemi, awo ogboni rere, like many Ife people was privy to Oke Ora being regarded as Oduduwa’s abode. It is the first place every Ooni elect goes to, thus making it a sacred ground no one ventures to but Eluyemi was granted the opportunity to excavate it and he made a number of discoveries there.

Alayemore reigned during Ife’s peak?
I swear your post cracked me up o. I thought you were someone with the slightest knowledge of Ife. I didn’t realize you loved fantasies and imaginations beyond anything else.

Cheers bro, I am done with the back and forth with you.

Olu317:
The ones you listed are for individual connection to Eleda. You need to read the console of Yoruba beliefs. Yes, pagan, categorically is referred to as unbeliever. And what you referred to also was because you don't know that Yoruba worship God and not the way it was painted as some Yoruba authors, have characterized Yoruba Eledumare. You have to dig deeper than what you have been reading. You quite got it wrong like some others do. No prayer can be sanctioned by any deity unless Eledumare place Asé on it. How would you now define such God known as the agelss lord God who doesn't care? Even the head of Onifas known as ARABA will tell you after a sacrifices has been prescribed that “Eledumare, a jé ki o ju é sè"(God will let it come to pass) . That's the almighty God of the Yorubas. I blame many Yoruba authors who had erroneously blundered either directly or indirectly and belittle Eledumare because, during the olden days few people were lettered in English but today, correction to the anomaly is gradually taking place. I said this because what those onifas/Babalawo meant was misunderstood because their point was to exalt the position of God beyond imagination but got on the wrong side on the medulla oblongata of the authors. Mind you, Eledumare is all supreme God /Towering God,in a literary translation which is not appropriate enough to explain the awesome of Yoruba almighty God.

Apparently, you are an outsider trying to describe what awos do from your monotheist perspective. If you’re an awo [Orisa, Ifa & Ogboni] maybe we should kick it in the PM and we can identify each other properly?

I won’t bother to stretch this but Olodumare has no connection or communication with humans. He is just there but inactive.

Obatala is the foremost deity not because of anything else but for being in possession of Ase to which other deities go to him for.

Esu is the one who grants requests good or bad not because he is an errand boy but because he has unfettered access to Ase.

Olodumare him/herself self does not want to be worshipped this is why there’s no shrine, ebo or etutu for him/her.

This is why s/he wants the Yoruba to focus on their Ori, Iya, Baba, Ikik & any deity.

Yoruba is polytheist. You’re Yoruba yes but your not being an Awo is obvious and you should not speak on what you do not know.

macof:


Superb Comment. This is an Ife man for such

Your knowledge of the important families to Oduduwa is incredible. i already know your former moniker

Egbon mi, eku ojo meta.

Y0ruba:



Apparently, you are an outsider trying to describe what awos do from your monotheist perspective. If you’re an awo [Orisa, Ifa & Ogboni] maybe we should kick it in the PM and we can identify each other properly?

I won’t bother to stretch this but Olodumare has no connection or communication with humans. He is just there but inactive.

Obatala is the foremost deity not because of anything else but for being in possession of Ase to which other deities go to him for.

Esu is the one who grants requests good or bad not because he is an errand boy but because he has unfettered access to Ase.

Olodumare him/herself self does not want to be worshipped this is why there’s no shrine, ebo or etutu for him/her.

This is why s/he wants the Yoruba to focus on their Ori, Iya, Baba, Ikik & any deity.

Yoruba is polytheist. You’re Yoruba yes but your not being an Awo is obvious and you should not speak on what you do not know.

You seem not to get it, right? I delve into to issue that I have knowledge on and you seem not to get it. Well, I am never never an outsider to Odua or oranmiyan. È mi omo arugbo ilè. È mi omo kaare O'ba Mi. I am not as hidden as it seems because I am a normal man, who lives like every other humble true Yoruba descendants. However, there is a difference between what seer says and who you are. In all of these, I hope you understand. Furthermore, initiation as an Awo has nothing to do with how spiritual gifted you but a lee way of indoctrination into knowledge of the past and how to connect to Eledumare through the deities. If Olorun isn't concerned with with humans, what does Éleda is to Yorubas? Knowledge isn't different from wisdom and wisdom and when wisdom become properly use, it becomes understanding! Pm me to initiate me? Smiling. Can one be initiated twice into IFA's knowledge? Anyway, In my family, you are not initiated into the needed cults except you are a king. On the power of Eledumare, I hope you know there is IFA holy book. . Of course yes, Èledumare interfered in the affairs of humans. Here are two pieces attached

Y0ruba:


You’re a very interesting person LOL.

I can place a bet of whatever to prove you’ve never been to Ile-Ife before and your tales are of your imaginations but that is your choice anyway.

As I said, I will not be speaking further on that. If you are that curious to know, go to Idio compound to find out what happened to the man.

How did you know he lived a long time to see his grand children? You almost said that like you both were contemporaries.

Oduduwa did not come wirh Irunmole’s worship. Ife already had deities for every natural phenomenon. Great men of yore were deified and pegged to each Irunmole. Something like how Sango the Alaafin passed and was pegged to Jakuta the actual god of thunder. All the Orisa, including Oduduwa already existed in Ife before all the greatmen later associated with them. This provided the duality in Yoruba system where each deity has a human history and a spiritual side. The spiritual tale to a deity is the tale woven around the deity before the human deified with it. Apparently, you’re not into these things but a fan from the sidelines developing his own narratives.

Ile-Ife had no King indeed but the Agba Ife system had periodic heads. Oduduwa usurped this using violence and was killed in the long haul. Oduduwa himself was not ‘king’ in the real sense, he shared power with Obatala accounting for why there were two palaces, Idio and Idita at opposite ends facing each other. True kingship system did not begin in Ile-Ife until Obalufon Alayemore who developee the art and state system. I am sure you didn’t know this too because you’ve never been to Ife but continue to conduct your arm chair analysis.

Uncle, the problem with your knowledge is that it is based on your own imagination and hearsay. You have never been to Ife, this is evident from things you’ve been posting on Ife thus far, yet you keep pushing unfounded narratives. Only 8 out of Oduduwa's children moved out, the rest were grand children. A good number of his children stayed back in Ife, some residing in their mother’s quarters or founded theirs within Ife. So no, they are not always away. Not many of them were away anyways.

Either you take or leave it. Eluyemi, awo ogboni rere, like many Ife people was privy to Oke Ora being regarded as Oduduwa’s abode. It is the first place every Ooni elect goes to, thus making it a sacred ground no one ventures to but Eluyemi was granted the opportunity to excavate it and he made a number of discoveries there.

Alayemore reigned during Ife’s peak?
I swear your post cracked me up o. I thought you were someone with the slightest knowledge of Ife. I didn’t realize you loved fantasies and imaginations beyond anything else.

Cheers bro, I am done with the back and forth with you.

Like I have said , you are funny. May be, Susan blair got you into this but didn't change anything about Adimunia. He was a king and did his best. Do you know how many years Odua lived to acquire Ifa's knowledge? I am sure know you. Do you know how many years it took Orangun ILA to be born by Adimunia? Do you know the account of Oore Ekiti's relationship with Odua? In fact, you are the first that didn't know this account because you claimed he died young and was killed. He compressed the whole hut cum settlements and brought forth Ebi system. If it was a lie, how come everything was surrounded around Odua? Perhaps, you are an Obatala descendants? No, offence though because Odua still stretched arms of friendship and recognition towards Obatala . Well, this forum isnt meant to be used as a platform by me to create enmity because we are builders and not destroyers of the entirety of Yoruba history, tradition and human relationships. Dear , forget that part of Odua being killed which you claimed were known to Awos . Anyway, Odua is always a selling Point to the users of his name for their benefit and respect . You claimed there were established deities before Irunmolè worship but you didn't name them. And I would have asked you the significance of Ram to Oranmiyan's ancestors but let me leave it as it is.

Bro, you tried anyway but you are far from it.

N. B: I truly thank God for an avenue as this because the whole world in search of Yoruba history will find certain information on this forum useful because personal experience and hidden info are being let loose.

Olu317:
Like I have said , you are funny. May be, Susan blair got you into this but didn't change anything about Adimunia. He was a king and did his best. Do you know how many years Odua lived to acquire Ifa's knowledge? I am sure know. Do you know how many years it took Orangun ILA to be born? Do you know the account of Oore Ekiti's relationship with Odua? In fact, you are the first that didn't know this account because you claimed he died young and was killed. He compressed the whole hut cum settlements and brought forth Ebi system. If it was a lie, how come everything was surrounded around Odua? Perhaps, you are an Obatala descendants? No, offence though because Odua still stretched arms of friendship and recognition towards Obatala . Well, this forum isnt meant to be used as a platform by me to create enmity because we are builders and not destroyers of the entirety of Yoruba history, tradition and human relationships. Dear , forget that part of him being killed being mentioned by some Awo to you. Anyway, Odua is always a selling Point to the users of his name for their benefit and respect . You claimed there were established deities before Irunmolè worship but you didn't name them. And I would have asked you the significance of Ram to Oranmiyan's ancestors but let me leave it as it is.

Bro, you tried anyway but you are far from it.

N. B: I truly thank God for an avenue as this because the whole world in search of Yoruba history will find certain information on this forum useful because personal experience and hidden info are being let loose.

Susan P Blier is a Historian of repute who contributed her quota to Ife history using art. I do not know what you mean by she got me into this.

You just spoke again like you and Oduduwa were contemporaries or something. You and I do not know and can we guess his age when he usurped power. What every Ife person who is an Awo knows is that he was killed [but the story put out is that he died].

How else did you think Ogun, Oduduwa’s son lost the throne and was sent out of his palace [the new palace], banished from Ife that led to his wandering and Osangagan Obamakin was able to take the throne which exchanged hands till Obalufon Alayemore until Oranmiyan used force to reverse the whole process again?

Oduduwa did not bring Ebi system.
Before Oduduwa usurped, every section of Ife was occupied by extensive family compounds and they had their own farms. Each section had a king, a Bale, an Odole and a L’ogun.

If you’re speaking of Ebi system among towns/crowns regarding themselves as brothers with Ife at the centre then you’re mistaken. Emigrant sons of Oduduwa only copied off of what was already on ground in Ife and applied it as a guiding philosophy to their inter-town relationships.

You apparently didn’t see my point. Using Awolowo for example, he was larger than life and was and still held in awe beyond human status.

Now back in the day if there was room for an Orisa with Awolowo’s qualities he would have been embedded into that Orisa and became a deity with followers [he still has a large following nonetheless].

If Yoruba had god of politics, Awolowo would have the name of that deity and stories about the two would become interwoven.

To further explain, see Ooni. The Ooni himself is not the 201st deity, it is the Are crown that is the 201st deity. The Ooni only becomes a deity when he puts this crown on and of course when he passes, larger than life tales to suit his Orisa status are put out.

The names of these deities back then are what we have now, Oduduwa, Oramfe, Esu, Ogun & so on. The spirit Oduduwa was the creator of earth - Iwa, the human Oduduwa was the creator of new political system in Ife; spirit Obatala was the human creator who lost position to Obatala, human Obatala lost his political position in Ife; Ogun was spirit associated with Iron and warfare, Ogun Oduduwa’s son was warlike & he got pegged to Ogun.

Now in Ife, Oduduwa, Ogun & Oranmiyan are classed the same because they were war-like & if Ogun had not been pegged to the Iron God, it would have been Oranmiyan because he had more exploits and it is he whom Oyo, Ibadan, Ekiti & other Yoruba towns send items to in Ife to be fed before they embark on any war, not Ogun. Aje is the spirit of wealth, the human Aje happened to have been the last market trader of her time to join the market but turned out to be the richest woman and over threw the first 7. Hence, she was pegged to the spirit of wealth.

We didn’t have a human deity of art. Guess who is our deity of art in Ife? Obalufon Alayemore who sponsored art in Ife heavily, especially brasswork. So you see my point now?


The list is endless but until people can initiate Orisa and see it as a followership of a human and not spirit then people will not understand what it is about because following Orisa is a subscription to how the human part of the Orisa lived - what he ate, wore, allies, taboos, chants etc. It is spiritual but not very spiritual also.

Lastly, not everything surrounds Oduduwa if you’re speaking of Ife’s geography. The person who re-adjusted everything to surround the palace was Obalufon & Oranmiyan consolidated it. The present palace was not Oduduwa’s palace, it was Ogun’s abode. Oduduwa’s palace is in Idio and definitely not in the center.

People seat wherever and device stories of their relationship with Oduduwa meanwhile the man was away in his palace chilling not doing much.

In fact during the wars, he was badly beaten and sent out of town. This was what brought Obameri & Baba Sigidi in. Obameri especially took it personal and did all the fighting while Oduduwa was brought back to chill in the palace; the defeat affected how much of his presence was seen.

To safeguard the man, Obameri left his section of Odin to mount road blocks against the opposing faction in order to ensure they are kept out of town proper.

The man, Oduduwa didn’t do much, he lost his first attempt but was made the head of a coup. He also had to rely heavily on his men to ensure his centralized monarchy was sustained till the other faction took him out and took the throne back.

People paint a larger than life picture around him and start creating stories about their connections with him. If Idio does not sanction any connection/exploits of other people with Oduduwa then I do not believe it. Idio are the custodian of everything Oduduwa did and left behind. In fact the ruling house is pretty much disconnected from Oduduwa even though they descended from him and they have to rely on Idio for anything Oduduwa & to sanction any connections with him from outside Ife.

Cheers.

Olu317:
You seem not to get it, right? I delve into to issue that I have knowledge on and you seem not to get it. Well, I am never never an outsider to Odua or oranmiyan. È mi omo arugbo ilè. È mi omo kaare O'ba Mi. I am not as hidden as it seems because I am a normal man, who lives like every other humble true Yoruba descendants. However, there is a difference between what seer says and who you are. In all of these, I hope you understand. Furthermore, initiation as an Awo has nothing to do with how spiritual gifted you but a lee way of indoctrination into knowledge of the past and how to connect to Eledumare through the deities. If Olorun isn't concerned with with humans, what does Éleda is to Yorubas? Knowledge isn't different from wisdom and wisdom and when wisdom become properly use, it becomes understanding! Pm me to initiate me? Smiling. Can one be initiated twice into IFA's knowledge? Anyway, In my family, you are not initiated into the needed cults except you are a king. On the power of Eledumare, I hope you know there is IFA holy book. . Of course yes, Èledumare interfered in the affairs of humans. Here are two pieces attached

LOL.

Is this Genesis chapter 1? Whoever wrote that book bit off the bible extensively. The attachments had me like, What?!

Good for you in your family. This means you're an Ogberi and should not speak on what you do not have a direct experience with.

Also, I did not say I wanted to initiate you with PL, WTH? I said if you are an Awo we shoulg use PMs to identify each other regardless of what Awo you might be, be it Orisa, Ifa or Ogboni.

Y0ruba:



LOL.

Is this Genesis chapter 1? Whoever wrote that book bit off the bible extensively. The attachments had me like, What?!

Good for you in your family. This means you're an Ogberi and should not speak on what you do not have a direct experience with.

Also, I did not say I wanted to initiate you with PL, WTH? I said if you are an Awo we shoulg use PMs to identify each other regardless of what Awo you might be, be it Orisa, Ifa or Ogboni.

An Ogbèri? You are funny! OK oh. It seems you still don't get it. Do I have to claim an initiate before you understand? Anyway, dear I won't go too deep with it. Categorically , I can't be an Ogboni! Do you know why? Let me infer, unless I am a king but I can't be a king, probably my descendants because I am not destined for such position. I will not discredit or refer too much about the real Ogboni sect because omo ódó Agba ni mi. I am sure you know a lot about Odua and oranmiyan tradition with your claim, Perhaps, you know the Orisa associated with their tradition.

Y0ruba:



Susan P Blier is a Historian of repute who contributed her quota to Ife history using art. I do not know what you mean by she got me into this.

You just spoke again like you and Oduduwa were contemporaries or something. You and I do not know and can we guess his age when he usurped power. What every Ife person who is an Awo knows is that he was killed [but the story put out is that he died].

How else did you think Ogun, Oduduwa’s son lost the throne and was sent out of his palace [the new palace], banished from Ife that led to his wandering and Osangagan Obamakin was able to take the throne which exchanged hands till Obalufon Alayemore until Oranmiyan used force to reverse the whole process again?

Oduduwa did not bring Ebi system.
Before Oduduwa usurped, every section of Ife was occupied by extensive family compounds and they had their own farms. Each section had a king, a Bale, an Odole and a L’ogun.

If you’re speaking of Ebi system among towns/crowns regarding themselves as brothers with Ife at the centre then you’re mistaken. Emigrant sons of Oduduwa only copied off of what was already on ground in Ife and applied it as a guiding philosophy to their inter-town relationships.

You apparently didn’t see my point. Using Awolowo for example, he was larger than life and was and still held in awe beyond human status.

Now back in the day if there was room for an Orisa with Awolowo’s qualities he would have been embedded into that Orisa and became a deity with followers [he still has a large following nonetheless].

If Yoruba had god of politics, Awolowo would have the name of that deity and stories about the two would become interwoven.

To further explain, see Ooni. The Ooni himself is not the 201st deity, it is the Are crown that is the 201st deity. The Ooni only becomes a deity when he puts this crown on and of course when he passes, larger than life tales to suit his Orisa status are put out.

The names of these deities back then are what we have now, Oduduwa, Oramfe, Esu, Ogun & so on. The spirit Oduduwa was the creator of earth - Iwa, the human Oduduwa was the creator of new political system in Ife; spirit Obatala was the human creator who lost position to Obatala, human Obatala lost his political position in Ife; Ogun was spirit associated with Iron and warfare, Ogun Oduduwa’s son was warlike & he got pegged to Ogun.

Now in Ife, Oduduwa, Ogun & Oranmiyan are classed the same because they were war-like & if Ogun had not been pegged to the Iron God, it would have been Oranmiyan because he had more exploits and it is he whom Oyo, Ibadan, Ekiti & other Yoruba towns send items to in Ife to be fed before they embark on any war, not Ogun. Aje is the spirit of wealth, the human Aje happened to have been the last market trader of her time to join the market but turned out to be the richest woman and over threw the first 7. Hence, she was pegged to the spirit of wealth.

We didn’t have a human deity of art. Guess who is our deity of art in Ife? Obalufon Alayemore who sponsored art in Ife heavily, especially brasswork. So you see my point now?


The list is endless but until people can initiate Orisa and see it as a followership of a human and not spirit then people will not understand what it is about because following Orisa is a subscription to how the human part of the Orisa lived - what he ate, wore, allies, taboos, chants etc. It is spiritual but not very spiritual also.

Lastly, not everything surrounds Oduduwa if you’re speaking of Ife’s geography. The person who re-adjusted everything to surround the palace was Obalufon & Oranmiyan consolidated it. The present palace was not Oduduwa’s palace, it was Ogun’s abode. Oduduwa’s palace is in Idio and definitely not in the center.

People seat wherever and device stories of their relationship with Oduduwa meanwhile the man was away in his palace chilling not doing much.

In fact during the wars, he was badly beaten and sent out of town. This was what brought Obameri & Baba Sigidi in. Obameri especially took it personal and did all the fighting while Oduduwa was brought back to chill in the palace; the defeat affected how much of his presence was seen.

To safeguard the man, Obameri left his section of Odin to mount road blocks against the opposing faction in order to ensure they are kept out of town proper.

The man, Oduduwa didn’t do much, he lost his first attempt but was made the head of a coup. He also had to rely heavily on his men to ensure his centralized monarchy was sustained till the other faction took him out and took the throne back.

People paint a larger than life picture around him and start creating stories about their connections with him. If Idio does not sanction any connection/exploits of other people with Oduduwa then I do not believe it. Idio are the custodian of everything Oduduwa did and left behind. In fact the ruling house is pretty much disconnected from Oduduwa even though they descended from him and they have to rely on Idio for anything Oduduwa & to sanction any connections with him from outside Ife.

Cheers.

Hmmmm, quite intriguing with this your claim that isn't true.Who were the Awos inferring on this bogus lie about Odua, Ogun? It seems you left out Orangun ILE ILA out of this, who was a very dreaded warrior during this period. Quite an imagination. Have you forgotten Owa Obokun went to fetch water at the seashore? Where did you notice even in the cosmopolitan ILE IFE, whose personality could be more organisational trendy during Adimunia's period? You think those that followed didn't realise, how divinely and spiritually sound he was? . Kindly list the settlement that existed and their lineage before odua emerged. As well as the Ebi system you claimed Odua sons and daughters copied. You claimed again about a setting at ILE IFE, when in fact Odua reorganize and streamlined the whole settlement. Do you want me. to name them? You even claim Ogun was war freak when in fact, it was all about defending his territory. You are truly hilarious. This is the reason too many rumours and lies can destroy so many things. Now, get it dear, Ogun went out of ILE IFE to prosecute war and lived in an area near present day Shaki because he wasn't too keen about being an Ooni. Kindly save this gist of yours as Obamakin Osangangan used that opportunity to be Ooni before Alayemore came on board and the eventual Return Of Orannmiyan. I can sense in your assertion that is quite different and comparing Odua to Awolowo. You practically don't know much dear.


You can visit destee. com and see what Awo dino tried to do to justify the relevance of Ori and creation through Yoruba Eledumare. And I want you post your own version that is well known about the creation myth of Yoruba via Orunmiela.

Cheers

Wouldn't it be nice if people would proudly claim the history of their ancestors instead of trying to claim that of the ancestors of other people ?
Look at the jews for example, their ancestors were slaves in egypt and the jews claim that with pride and no shame at all.
By doing so they are honouring their ancestors and moving forward with their real identity. But in black africa, these guys feel so special that they would deny their own ancestors (if they were not great enough) and make up a fairytale story and even try history theft. Some people really are shameless !

yoruba, I will give you material to fuel your jealousy and to push you into denying your ancestors even more:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2Tac1gNPU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IlUMUGUorw

yoruba come and claim this, perharps you could replace "the Oba" by "the ooni" :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDzU7Ega2R8

Historyworld031 keep killing them bro

Look at all the useless fairytales the two Yoruba boys av been arguing about

Gosh this people really lack actual history