Horus,

First things first:
It truly depends upon the artist rendition of what a particular prophet, god or gods, Christ, Angels, etc. looks like. See, the issue in the world today is that we as individuals ALLOW an infiltration of negative thinking and negative substitution to evade our movement. If you are a Christian who follows the bible as it is written, it becomes clear to you that the characters in the bible were of varied backgrounds and races. However, to have race and color be the focus of ones learning and decisions is truly pointless and detracts from Christian biblical thinking. Even though I understand the point you are attempting to make, it's a miniature point on the enormous scale of the question of religious teaching, in this case Jehovah's Witnesses.

LuckyCO,

Very good points and I agree with what you intend. Just a refresher, I am no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I do not condone their teachings. Their history has shown many things that encouraged me to study further, thus leaving. One point that you made here is that, at one time, Jehovah's Witnesses (at that time called Bible Students) preached an aggresive message that all religion is 'evil' (A snare and a racket). Yet, do not most extremist Christian groups do that? Born Again Christians, Mormons, even some sects of Judaism?? History truly shows this to be true.

.

Jehovah Witness’ Fake Christ
, the Jehovah’s Witness’ had a leader that was also considered “a Christ.” That leader being Charles Tazzil Russell who founded the sect in 1870. When he was dissatisfied with Christianity as it was, he organized his first bible study class. Six years later, in 1876, he elected himself  “pastor.” In 1879 he sold his interest in a clothing firm and began printing “The Watchtower” semi-monthly. By 1884, his “Zion’s Watchtower and Bible Society,” was incorporated in Pennsylvania and in 1908, he moved his headquarters from Pittsburgh, PA to Brooklyn, NY. Russell claimed to be the seventh angel mentioned in the book or Revelation. He said that the other six were men. He predicted the end of the world several times! 1874, 1876, 1914, 1916, and 1918, each time stating that word came to him from the creator whom he called Jehovah.

http://bibleprobe.com/jehovahwitness.htm

Also, google the word, "Beth-Sarim"

Not true religion,but just another cult within the christian cult.A subcult(denomination) amongst many other christian subcults,if you will.

Al religions have their pros nd cons as far as everyone of us is concerned so it comes down to the relationship btw you and God and not the religion

It is very unfortunate that instead of focussing on worship you are concentrating on medium. Religion of course is a medium of worship but it should not become the center of our worship. The center and focus of worship should be the Creator of heaven and earth, i.e the Almighty God through Jesus Christ. We waste a lot of time on spiritual semantics to the detriment of the real issue which worshiping God "with a pure heart". It doesn't matter through which medium you worship, the most important thing is to worship with pure heart. If you say you love God but you hate your neighbor how far away from truth can you be. Denominational Christianity is fast becoming like political parties, where candidates are focused on same issue but with different perspectives and philosophies.
On the issue of Jesus being God or a god, I think the Bible is explicit enough. "For he loves the world so much that he sent his only beggotten son". QED Jesus is the son of the living God. Whatever other expression of equality made by Jesus does not equate him with The Almighty God who effected his resurrection. God cannot die. God cannot be killed. "Father, said Jesus, I wish this cup will pass me over, but may your will be done". Let us all focus our attention on the most important dictum of religion which is worshiping with a pure heart. Somebody once said in this forum that "God does not philosophize". How very true. God never dance around facts like some lawyers or politicians does. Phi. 2:11 " and every tongue should openly confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord to the glory of God the father". Period. No controversy. The Bible is very clear about the position of Jesus and that of God the father. The best form of worship is to Love God thy creator and your fellow man like yourself. Above these there is no law.

Why are the people in the Jehovah's witness magazine always pale skinned (so-called white) when the bible says that to be pale is a curse.

Numbers 12: 1 - 10

Verse 10 "And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous."

When Gods is angry with you he makes you white as snow.

Why do Jehovah witness show people with blond yellow hair on their magazine when the bible says such people are unclean.

Leviticus 13: 36 "Then the priest shall look on him: and, behold, if the scall be spread in the skin, the priest shall not seek for yellow hair; he is
unclean."

Read Leviticus 13.

Matthew 7:15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
The sleazy watchtower $ociety only cares about it's image,devotion of it's followers,and plundering the time money and assets of followers.

Just like a cult in every way,

More have died from their Watchtower spiritual and medical quackery than Jim Jones and David Koresh cults combined!

Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs:

A) They are at your door to recruit you for enslavement to their watchtower corporation,they will say that "we are just here to share a message from the Bible" this is deception right off.

B) Their 'message' is a false Gospel that Jesus had his second coming in 1914.The problem with this is it's not just a cute fairy tale,Jesus warned of the false prophets who would claim ", look he is here in the wilderness,or see here he is at the temple, "

C) Their anti-blood transfusion ban has killed hundreds if not thousands

D) once they recruit you they will "love bomb" you in cult fashion to also recruit your family & friends or cut them off. There are many more dangers,Jehovah's Witnesses got a bad rap for good and valid reasons.

99% of the world has rejected the teachings of the Watchtower Jehovah’s Witnesses, the darker truth is they are a destructive and oppressive organization.
Mind control is a terrible thing.
--
Danny Haszard Jehovah's Witness X 33 years http://www.freeminds.org

http://jehovahwitness.vox.com/

~A couple of years ago, a Sweet ole JW lady knocked on my door,she was in her Fifties,when she suggested if she'll come round every other sunday for Bible studies,i didnt have the heart to say No!!

~I found most of the teachinigs knowledgeable but i had a big Problem with the Law of not accepting Blood transfusion!! It baffled me why would someone clearly in need of medical assistant to save their life,choose not to!!


~Needless to say after that fact was made known to me i wasnt comfy pretending i was interested in the Religion at all!!

~There are several cases here in london wherein belivers of this religion have died because of that law,lately,A mum who'd just given birth to twin daugthers died because she'd ticked no blood transfusion and her parents who are also JW refused to over ride her decision,it was sad,and i have wondered if she was consciuos, wud she have changed her miind??!

Its true 1914 was believed to be the end? But that's when the end really began. Revelation talks about the horses which one represented WAR. What happened in 1914? WWI No war was ever as destructive as this one. After this one all other wars were worst then the previous ones before 1914. Because of these wars hunger and diseases spread making other prophecies noticeable. 1914 clearly mark the end of days.

As far as blood transfusions: due to the JW's, hospitals have been forced to learn to use bloodless surgeries, and guess what now they are saying is the better and safer option. Truth is blood transfusions are the cheap and easy methods. e.g. You need blood, they put it, charge you and is over. The other methods are a lot safer but cost more. That's why they all prefer the transfusions. But GOD, who made us knows best, the greatest Dr of all, tells us to stay away from it.

Perrito4u:

Its true 1914 was believed to be the end? But that's when the end really began. Revelation talks about the horses which one represented WAR. What happened in 1914? WWI No war was ever as destructive as this one. After this one all other wars were worst then the previous ones before 1914. Because of these wars hunger and diseases spread making other prophecies noticeable. 1914 clearly mark the end of days.

How did 1914 mark the beginning of the end?

pilgrim.1:

How did 1914 mark the beginning of the end?

Isn't even the term 'beginning of the end' a nonsensical term. Like waking up and saying 'today is the beginning of the rest of my life'.

Beginning implies a start, an event that is not subsequent to any prior event.

Can that be said of 1914. Where there not factors that built up to that war? Perhaps the beginning could be considered the domination of Prussia over the other germanic principalities. Could German expansionism not be a continuation of that process that started way back then.

Or maybe the rise of Nationalism can be seen as the beginning of the end.

Hey, where does a circle begin and where does it end?

Pastor AIO:

Isn't even the term 'beginning of the end' a nonsensical term. Like waking up and saying 'today is the beginning of the rest of my life'.

Even where I don't agree with the previous poster, I don't think the term in question is nonsensical. Perhaps we should endeavour to understand what he/she meant in context; and so I don't think there's any difficulty there. The "End" is an epoch; at least we can understand this in the statement found in Luke 21:9 ("but the end is not by and by"; and when the Lord Jesus spoke about the 'End', He also mentioned "the beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:8 ). What this points to is that there is an epoch known as 'the End', and that epoch has a commencement (a beginning) - which some would tersely call 'the beginning of the end'.

Bobbyaf: are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

Perrito4u: are you one of Jehovah's witnesses?

vchlady: you'll learn a lot from Jehovah's Witnesses (henceforth, JWs), but watch out before you commit yourself. There are important questions to ask JWs before you commit to joining them.

Horus: JWs never considered CT Russell "a Christ" (putting the words in quotes doesn't change a thing). There're legitimate things that could be said against the JWs; that CT Russell was "a Christ" isn't one of them.

Ndipe: "Beth-Sarim" is an interesting topic; you'll find out that many JWs don't know anything about it; when they get to know about it, they just like to pretend it never happened.

DanHaszard: Wow! Aren't you everywhere?! How did you get here?? Know a bit of much of your active work regarding breaking free of Jehovah's Witnesses; information is a powerful thing. More power to your elbow.
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Why 1914?

For some 35 years prior to 1914, The Watchtower (now the most widely distributed religious magazine on earth) had been calling attention to 1914 as a year marked in Bible prophecy. These prophecies began to have a remarkable fulfillment in 1914. One of these was Jesus' own prophecy, uttered 1,900 years ago, concerning "the sign" that would appear at the end of the system of things and that would prove that he was invisibly present with kingly power. In answer to his disciples' question about this "sign," he said: "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." (Matthew 24:3, 7, In striking fulfillment, the first of the world wars started in 1914, bringing destruction seven times greater than all the 900 wars of the preceding 2,500 years! Pangs of distress have continued ever since. Have you experienced the war destruction, the food shortages, or any of the great earthquakes that have plagued the earth since 1914? If so, you have been an eyewitness of "the sign" of "the time of the end" of this system of things.—Daniel 12:4.

The "pangs of distress" have heightened through World War II, which was four times as destructive as World War I, and on into the nuclear age, fulfilling Jesus' further prophecy: "On the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out . . . , while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth." (Luke 21:25, 26) The increase in crime and wickedness, in disobedience and delinquency among children, as well as the growth of godlessness and immorality—these alarming developments were also foretold as marking "the last days" of this evil system.—2 Timothy 3:1-5; Matthew 24:12.

For some 35 years prior to 1914, The Watchtower (now the most widely distributed religious magazine on earth) had been calling attention to 1914 as a year marked in Bible prophecy.

You've bought into a lie. The Watchtower did predict that something was going to happen in 1914; something; but, what was it? Here is what the Watchtower wrote prior to 1914:

But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226

and

The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord, " Studies in the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come p.239

There are other quotes.

Then, Wathctower, like any other dubious prophet caught pants down, began to revise history after the fact, making changes to the text of their predictions. Examples:

Compare:

That the deliverance of the saints must take place some time before 1914 is manifest, since the deliverance of fleshly Israel, as we shall see, is appointed to take place at that time, and the angry nations will then be authoritatively commanded to be still, and will be made to recognize the power of Jehovah's Anointed. Just how long before 1914 the last living members of the body of Christ will be glorified, we are not directly informed; but it certainly will not be until their work in the flesh is done; nor can we reasonably presume that they will long remain after that work is accomplished. With these two thought in mind, we can approximate the time of the deliverance."  -  Studies in the Scriptures Series III - Thy Kingdom Come 1908 edition

with:

"That the deliverance of the saints must take place very soon after 1914 is manifest, since the deliverance of fleshly Israel, as we shall see, is appointed to take place at that time, and the angry nations will then be authoritatively commanded to be still, and will be made to recognize the power of Jehovah's Anointed. Just how long after 1914 the last living members of the body of Christ will be glorified, we are not directly informed; but it certainly will not be until their work in the flesh is done; nor can we reasonably presume that they will long remain after that work is accomplished." - Studies in the Scriptures Series III - Thy Kingdom Come 1915 edition

There are several other examples. And there are scans of the original documents in the open source. The Watchtower (and later, JWs) do this quite often, banking on the fact that several of their incurious members will accept whatever is pulished today as truth, or 'new light' while discouraging members from digging into the archives to check what was 'old light'.

Perrito4u: are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses, or, are you "studying" with them?
.

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You see Nimshi you are right The JW's thought it was the end. There is a calculation u can do using the bible that will bring you the year 1914. JW's where the only ones to see it. They figured the date out and they thought it was the end. But JW's are not prophets. They were wrong about what the year really meant - Mathew 24:36 Just a mistake. But they where right about one thing, this date had to do with the end of days, and history says it all.

pilgrim.1:

Even where I don't agree with the previous poster, I don't think the term in question is nonsensical. Perhaps we should endeavour to understand what he/she meant in context; and so I don't think there's any difficulty there. The "End" is an epoch; at least we can understand this in the statement found in Luke 21:9 ("but the end is not by and by"; and when the Lord Jesus spoke about the 'End', He also mentioned "the beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:8 ). What this points to is that there is an epoch known as 'the End', and that epoch has a commencement (a beginning) - which some would tersely call 'the beginning of the end'.

I'll admit that I can come across as a bit brusque or even outright rude at times. Apologies. However I do not think that they were talking about the beginning of an epoch or an era, but rather the end of the epoch. In christian belief we are living in the last Epoch.

Of course the significance that we give to events can be quite arbitrary and depending on your inclination I see that it is possible to see the First World War as something extra significant with regards to the numbers of people killed and the atrocity of the war, but Really . . . let's look at it in the context of human history.

Was it any more horrific than the Black death? That peaked in the 14th century in Europe. It decimated a third of Europe's population. (okay decimate means to kill a tenth so maybe I should have said it tresimated the population). That is probably the worst disaster that europe has ever encountered in it's modern history. If ever there is an event to be deemed significant then it would be that, cos it was truly the beginning of a new era for Europe, the destruction of the feudal system, the distrust of the Catholic Church, the rise of Classical learning and the Renaissance. The destruction of the population meant that the few labourers left could demand higher wages. The horrors of the disease itself caused people to wonder whether they were being punished by God for the corruption of the Catholic clergy. It caused huge seismic shifts that are still being felt in the way Europe is today. It can be argued that more than any event it's shaped the European mind today.
How Does anything that happened in 1914 compare to that?

Perrito4u:

You see Nimshi you are right The JW's thought it was the end. There is a calculation u can do using the bible that will bring you the year 1914. JW's where the only ones to see it. They figured the date out and they thought it was the end. But JW's are not prophets. They were wrong about what the year really meant - Mathew 24:36 Just a mistake. But they where right about one thing, this date had to do with the end of days, and history says it all.

Do you know this calculation? If you do, share it. JWs are fond of being vague about some date, and they arrive at 1914. Many JWs mention this date, 1914, and refer to the calculations in one or more of the JW so-called "study books"; yet, many can't pin it down when asked. If you're sure you know what you're talking about, then let's start up with this calculation. Of course, you'll pay attention to the 607 BCE date, and you may want to check it for the starting date of your calculations.

CT Russell and his friends had lots of date; so you'll have to be precise about what you mean about JWS being right about the 1914 date. First of all: "Jehovah's Witnesses" (JWs) were not really in existence before 1933. But the group with CT Russell, who expected something thappen in 1914 were wrong about everything they wrote. Note that: everything. If you could point to direc quotes that predicted the 1914 events before the fact, then you may be making a headway.

And since you appear to have missed the points of the quotes in the earlier post, here, in plain words:

1) JWs (as now known) predicted that the world was going to end in 1914.
2) When that didn't happen, they changed dates, predicting further that the world would end in 1915, 1918, 1920 and also 1925. Much later, 1975 was looked forward to too.

If you want proof of these from JWs publications, I will be glad to oblige you.

Perrito4u: are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses, or, are you "studying" with them?

.

Nimshi I need sources for those predictions. One thing I know about them is that most of their time is spent on trying to change secular christian beliefs, I mean just how could the apostles in the bible phantom what blood transfusion is beats my imagination!

Nimshi I need sources for those predictions. One thing I know about them is that most of their time is spent on trying to change secular christian beliefs, I mean just how could the apostles in the bible phantom what blood transfusion is beats my imagination!

Chris: JWs, a strange bunch.

Even their stance on blood transfusion is "strange" and dishonest at best: they denounce the transfusion of "whole blood", red and white cells, plasma and platelets, but they allow the transfusion of fractions of red and white cells, plasma and platelets; fractions. Meaning that if blood is processed, then it's acceptable. What's stranger is that they don't allow their members to donate blood. Yet, the blood fractions they allow are from donated blood. That sort of hypocrisy, reaping where they have not sowed, is unChristian at best, and completely inhumane.

Previously, they opposed vaccinations, calling it a violation of God's laws; they also condemned organ transplants as cannibalism; they have reversed themselves on these two; their opposition is well-documented. JWs today are allowed to accept haemoglobin; they're still not allowed to donate blood from which they're allowed to accept blood fractions.

The reason I'm asking Perrito4u the repeated question about membership is that there may be many things (s)he isn't aware of; and JWs wouldn't reveal all until one is a full member, at which time it may be too late.

Here is about the most comprehensive JW quotes page on the Internet:

http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/ ;

the original site was in Canada, but the JW organisation hounded the guy who owned that site, almost got him bankrupt; but that only served to make others mirror the website. This is a good preservation; it is about the best.
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Nimshi, you keep saying "prediction". JW's are not prophets, they didn't predict nothing, prophecies are already written in the Bible. They thought it was the end of the world. Oh and I'm studying with JW's for about 4 months now and I think Ive learned more about the Bible in these 4 months and the 10 years as a Catholic and 3 as a Pentecostal. Oh and sure I can explain how the JW's came up with the year 1914. Watch future postings, I will explain. SOON!



Pastor AIO: In this 20th century, beginning with WWI, well over 100,000,000 people have been killed in wars, more than four times as many as in the previous 400 years put together! ONLY IN WARS! Not to mention: street violence, diseases like AIDS and Cancer, etc. Whatever happened in 14th century isn't worst that what we see now. Pastor AIO, Do you believe in the Bible? Are you doubting that we are living in the epoch of "the conclusion of the system of things" that Jesus mentioned? - Mathew 24:3 The disciples of Jesus Christ wanted to know those things. They asked him what "the sign" would be of his presence in Kingdom power and "of the conclusion of the system of things." Jesus answered by detailing world-shaking events and conditions that would combine to show that mankind had entered "the time of the end," "the last days" of this system of things. Have we in this century seen that composite sign? Yes, we have, abundantly so!

If your faith is not built on Jesus Christ and His commandment, you are not a christian.
The christian faith revolves around Jesus, He is the core, the center and the backbone of Christianity.
He is the numero uno, the first and the last, all in all of christianity.
He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
He is God.
Take Him away, the remaining is theory.
IN HIM IS LIFE,

1914

The Bible foretells the year that Christ began to rule as king of God’s government. It is in this same Bible book of Daniel. (Daniel 4:10-37) There a giant, heaven-high tree is used to represent King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He was the highest human ruler at that time. However, King Nebuchadnezzar was forced to know that someone higher was ruling. This one is “the Most High,” or “the King of the heavens,” Jehovah God. (Daniel 4:34, 37) So, in a more important way, this heaven-high tree, comes to represent the supreme rulership of God, particularly in its relationship to our earth. Jehovah’s rulership was expressed for a time through the kingdom that he set up over the nation of Israel. Thus the kings of the tribe of Judah who reigned over the Israelites were said to “sit upon Jehovah’s throne.”—1 Chronicles 29:23.
According to the Bible account in Daniel chapter four, the heaven-high tree was cut down. However, the stump was left, and bands of iron and of copper were put on it. This would keep the stump from growing until it was God’s time to remove the bands and let it start growing again. But how and when was God’s rulership cut down?
In due course, the kingdom of Judah that Jehovah had set up became so corrupt that he allowed King Nebuchadnezzar to destroy it, to cut it down. This happened in the year 607 B.C.E. At that time Zedekiah, the last king of Judah to sit on Jehovah’s throne, was told: “Lift off the crown. . . . it will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.”—Ezekiel 21:25-27.
So God’s rulership, as represented by the “tree,” was cut down in 607 B.C.E. No longer was there a government to represent God’s rulership in the earth. Thus, in 607 B.C.E. a period of time began that Jesus Christ later referred to as “the appointed times of the nations,” or, “the times of the Gentiles.” (Luke 21:24; King James Version) During these “appointed times” God did not have a government to represent his rulership in the earth.
What was to happen at the end of these “appointed times of the nations”? Jehovah was to give the power to rule to the One “who has the legal right.” This One is Jesus Christ. So if we can find out when “the appointed times of the nations” end, we will know when Christ begins to rule as king.
According to Daniel chapter four, these “appointed times” would be “seven times.” Daniel shows that there would be “seven times” during which God’s rulership, as represented by the “tree,” would not be in operation over the earth. (Daniel 4:16, 23) How long are these “seven times”?
In Revelation chapter 12, verses 6 and 14, we learn that 1,260 days are equal to “a time [that is, 1 time] and times [that is, 2 times] and half a time.” That is a total of 3 1/2 times. So “a time” would be equal to 360 days. Therefore, “seven times” would be 7 times 360, or 2,520 days. Now if we count a day for a year, according to a Bible rule, the “seven times” equal 2,520 years.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.
We have already learned that “the appointed times of the nations” began in the year 607 B.C.E. So by counting 2,520 years from that date, we come down to 1914 C.E. That is the year these “appointed times” ended. In that year, World War I began a period of terrible trouble that has continued to our day.


Jesus:
In the year 29 C.E. when Jesus was 30 years of age, he went to John the Baptizer to be baptized by him in the waters of the Jordan River. The Bible states: “After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him. Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’” (Matthew 3:16, 17) After hearing those words of approval, could John have had any doubt that Jesus was God’s Chosen One? By pouring out His holy spirit on Jesus, Jehovah God anointed him, or appointed him, to be the King of His coming Kingdom. Thus, Jesus became Jesus Christ, or Jesus the Anointed One.

Perrito4u:

Nimshi, you keep saying "prediction". JW's are not prophets, they didn't predict nothing, prophecies are already written in the Bible. They thought it was the end of the world.

Well, you're defending JWs that they nover predicted. Are you sure about this? Have you seen the sources? Have you seen the old books? Have you studied the JW collection of books "Studies in the Scriptures", most of whcih were published by CT Russell? Or, have you only been looking at the more recent publications of JWs? It is true prophecies are written in the bible, but the JWs have misinterpreted facts, and they have predicted dates that have turned out to be false. In my last post, I gave a link to a place called "quotes"; yes, just quotes, to show the development of JW doctrines, and what JWs wil fail to acknowledge. If you want to be objective, you have to take a look at these. If JWs are selling themselves to you based on their superior understanding of scriptures, you cannot reasonably challenge those positions when you're subjugated in "question and answer" sessions where you "study" their books.

Oh and I'm studying with JW's for about 4 months now and I think Ive learned more about the Bible in these 4 months and the 10 years as a Catholic and 3 as a Pentecostal.

Then I did guess right. You'll be impressed with the new things JWs will show you. You've been impressed with their position on "hell fire" haven't you? Have you got round to their position on blood transfusions? There's no denying the fact that JWs can and do impress otherwise nominal Christians who're interested in scriptural matters. But, you're being warned to watch out; just be sure you know what you're dealing with. Right now, the JW(s) you're studying with have lots advantage over you: they're impressing you with "knowledge" [that leads to everlasting life], and they're showing you attention and love. If you're studying with them in Nigerian, you've probably been encouraged to make "voluntary donations" for the study materials you have received. And, have you got round to attending a service (or "meeting" at their place of worship? You'll make your decisions, but you've got to watch out so you know what you're getting into.

Oh and sure I can explain how the JW's came up with the year 1914. Watch future postings, I will explain. SOON!

Good. I'm familiar with that; that is, I'm familiar with a postponement to explain sth like 1914: it's not very easy to explain; but what's interesting is that people who don't understand it present it as fact. I'm of the opinion that once you're able to understand it, then you'll be in a position to ask the right questions. So, we'll be waiting until the time you'll be able to explain.

Pastor AIO: In this 20th century, beginning with WWI, well over 100,000,000 people have been killed in wars, more than four times as many as in the previous 400 years put together! ONLY IN WARS! Not to mention: street violence, diseases like AIDS and Cancer, etc. Whatever happened in 14th century isn't worst that what we see now. Pastor AIO, Do you believe in the Bible? Are you doubting that we are living in the epoch of "the conclusion of the system of things" that Jesus mentioned? - Mathew 24:3 The disciples of Jesus Christ wanted to know those things. They asked him what "the sign" would be of his presence in Kingdom power and "of the conclusion of the system of things." Jesus answered by detailing world-shaking events and conditions that would combine to show that mankind had entered "the time of the end," "the last days" of this system of things. Have we in this century seen that composite sign? Yes, we have, abundantly so!

I can see a lot of JW buzz words here; it's about certain that you're taken. Here:

"the conclusion of the system of things"

the sign" would be of his presence

composite sign?

I see that you have dismissed the 14th century charge out-of-hand. JWs do this too; it represents an incurious disposition to facts: dismissing evidence challenging a position you hold. Not good. You could well end up dismissing how the 14th Century events fit a description of the time of the end, but you couldn't do that without thoroughly examining the evidence were you to be objective. That you do shows you've already made up your mind, without considering conflicting evidence.

It's all fine, you could made doctrinal decisions as you please; but you must consider how becoming a JW will impact your personal life, and what you gain to lose once you sign (yes, legally) your rights away. You're not able to do this because you're relating to JWs right now from a position of weakness: they know so much more than you do, and they've thoroughly impressed you with bible knowledge. I'll tell you to beware and be careful. Let me ask:

Is the person studying with you a regular "publisher" or a "pioneer", or an "elder"?

Which of their books are you studying with them right now?
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Perrito4u:

Pastor AIO: In this 20th century, beginning with WWI, well over 100,000,000 people have been killed in wars, more than four times as many as in the previous 400 years put together! ONLY IN WARS! Not to mention: street violence, diseases like AIDS and Cancer, etc. Whatever happened in 14th century isn't worst that what we see now. Pastor AIO, Do you believe in the Bible? Are you doubting that we are living in the epoch of "the conclusion of the system of things" that Jesus mentioned? - Mathew 24:3 The disciples of Jesus Christ wanted to know those things. They asked him what "the sign" would be of his presence in Kingdom power and "of the conclusion of the system of things." Jesus answered by detailing world-shaking events and conditions that would combine to show that mankind had entered "the time of the end," "the last days" of this system of things. Have we in this century seen that composite sign? Yes, we have, abundantly so!

I suppose if you're counting per head then more people died violent deaths in the 20th century yes, but hang on . . . More people lived happy lives too, and more people had blessed marriages, and more people fulfilled their potential, and more people were cured from disease. So all that negates itself.

However if you are counting in terms of proportion then nothing that has happened in the 20th century compares with what happened during the black death. Can you imagine 1 in every 3 people you know being dead. They just woke up one morning, sneezed and died. Remember the rhyme, "A-tissue a-tissue they all fall down". It was about the black death. Death was so common that people took to making children's games out of it.
Ringa ringa roses
A pocket full of posies
A tissue atissue
They all fell down.

If the same thing happened today that would equate to 2billion people dying. Now, 2 billion people is a hell of a lot more than 100 million people. 20 times more, in fact.

The second part that I emboldened is a form of argumentation that you might be able to get past an idiot but unfortunately for you I am not an idiot. First you ask me if I believe the bible then swiftly follow on with linking belief in the bible with belief in living in the end times. These two beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with each other. No, I don't believe that there is any thing happening in the world today that is any different from anything that has happened in human history.

Yes Nimshi I saw the books, As a Pentecostal I even took a "special course" on how to deal with JW's. They put alot of things on my head, like how bad they really were. How they let children die because of the blood. But I saw for myself that it was all lies. That only proved one thing - John 17:14 After seeing the movie "Knock" I decided to investigate about blood transfusions. They are absolutely right about what they say. Benefits all of us to use alternate medicines. You say JW's misinterpret the facts. Your stuck with a mistake Russell made in the past. Tell me what religion you are and I will find a mistake somewhere too. The truth is there are thousands of religions and they all interpret things differently when Jesus only had one way of teaching. Just search for the right one, you might find it. I think I did,


Oh and Pastor AIO: You don't really talk much about the Bible. Are you a religious person?

Perrito4u:


Oh and Pastor AIO: You don't really talk much about the Bible. Are you a religious person?

Yes I am religious, and yes I don't really talk much about the Bible. Well, not anymore than I talk about other books, religious or secular. I am not here to preach the bible, but here to discuss religion with a variety of people from a variety of religious backgrounds. It is something that I do offline as well.

I hope you won't judge me on the basis of my not quoting the bible much. Well actually you can judge me if you want, and I can't do anything about it. But surely you won't think that the validity of anything I say depends on how much bible I quote. Like, "well you haven't quoted the bible so the black death didn't happen". What, I wonder, is the point of your question?

Perrito4u: these are responses to your post.

Yes Nimshi I saw the books,   

Exactly which books? Give the titles of the books.

And, since you wrote that you saw the books, then I must ask: did you read the books you saw?

As a Pentecostal  I even took a "special course" on how to deal with JW's.   They put alot of things on my head, like how bad they really were. How they let children die because of the blood. But I saw for myself that it was all lies.

One of the most dangerous ways to criticise religions is to exaggerate and lie about their beliefs and doctrines. I will agree that other Christians do this quite a lot; I don't argue that they do it deliberately; many times, they do it out of ignorance, and perhaps with good intentions to protect their flock. Whatever course you may have had in dealing with JWs will not have prepared you for anything you'll get.

That only proved one thing - John 17:14

This scripture is neither unique to JWs nor your situation.

After seeing the movie "Knock"  I decided to investigate about blood transfusions.  They are absolutely right about what they say.  Benefits all of us to use alternate medicines.

Did you mean "Knocking"?

You investigated Blood Transfusions? Good. Then why don't you share the results of your investigation on this page. I have written above about the ethics of blood transfusion as practiced by JWs. Why don't you address those issues? You could ask the JWs "studying" with you; if they're able to provide answers. As for you, I'll tell you again that your relationship with JWs is currently lop-sided: you're not even in a position to ask deep questions because much of what you're encountering is new to you, and you're being bombarded with information, attention, and "love" by JWs. Again, you need to be careful to know exactly what you're getting yourself into.

You say JW's misinterpret the facts.

I said is that JWs misinterpreted scriptures; they named dates and made predictions based on their studies; and they were wrong. They've been wrong many times.

Your stuck with a mistake Russell made in the past.

As you continue your "study", you will see how JWs make the claim that they have been entrusted with God's belongings on earth because they were teaching correct doctrines when the Master (Jesus, that is) came for the "inspection". They will justify their privileged position based on the teachings of CT Russell. If those teachings are wrong, then clearly, their claim cannot be correct. And then you will see that the pillars of the JW religion and doctrines are based on false claims that can be historically debunked.

Tell me what religion you are and I will find a mistake somewhere too. The truth is there are thousands of religions and they all interpret things differently when Jesus only had one way of teaching. Just search for the right one, you might find it.   I think I did.

It is true that religious sects make mistakes in interpretations; but JWs claim that they have the true religion and that they have the correct interpretations. In fact, JWs also claim that they are the only true Christians practicing the only true religion; isn't that so? Have you reached that part in your "study"? JWs seldom admit to doctrinal mistakes; perhaps they've changed. They also claim that their doctrines are from God, since their organisation is "spirit directed". These claims cannot gel well with the reversals and counter-reversals to doctrine that they have made in the past. If you ask the hard questions, you may begin to benefit yourself, and then perhaps you would get the reply that "interpretations of scriptures are not inspired"; this one may be long in coming. In any case, I think you should be concerned about the effect your becoming a JW (if you make the final big step) will have on you, your relationships, and your future. Regarding these, if you do not ask the JWs, they'll not tell you. And I can assure you that many who join JWs are usually not aware of the consequences.

Below, I leave you with direct questions I have asked that you haven't answered:

(1) Is the person studying with you a regular "publisher" or a "pioneer", or an "elder" or a combination of publisher/elder, or pioneer/elder?

(2) Which of their books are you "studying" with them right now? I assume that this is your first book, since you've been "studying" for 4 months. If you have studied other books, could you list them?

.

Hey Pastor Why are you still focusing too much on the black death? The black death was one event in Europe. Jesus was referring to multiple events World Wide. Different!. He actually specified wars and hunger too. Is what we see today.