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Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by folafola(m): 6:22am On Oct 29, 2017
THE QURANIC DILEMMA

VARIANT TEXT READINGS REVISITED - PART 1

Which reading was PRESERVED in heaven?

In this multi part posts, we will focus on the dilemma of Quranic preservations, by conducting very simple observational analysis of the “Variant Quranic Readings Tradition.”

Many of our Muslim friends are convinced that the Quran as we have it today is the EXACT same Quran which was revealed to the prophet of Islam.

The only problem with this naive assumption is that the very Islamic traditions on Various Quranic Readings do not come close to endorsing such notion.

One of the most disturbing facts about these various readings of the Quran stems from the very sobering fact that none of these traditions were reported until almost 150-200 yrs after the revelations of the Quran.

Another problem has to do with the mere fact that opinions vary when it comes to what is meant by the Arabic term “Ahruf” in describing the “Variant Text Readings” of the Quran.

Furthermore, all decisions regarding such variant readings are man-made at best.

Take for example this Hadith tradition by Ibn ‘Abbaas who narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Jibreel taught me one style and I reviewed it until he taught me more, and I kept asking him for more and he gave me more until finally there were seven styles.”

(narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3047; Muslim, 819)

It is obvious from this Hadith tradition above that it was reported by Bukhari, almost 200 yrs after the revelations of the Quran, and the very tradition itself is reporting that it was a Muhammad who supposedly overruled his god by asking for more variant readings, which the pages of the very Quran itself are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY silent about!

In addition, if one is to take this Hadith above seriously, then the attached photos below serve as yet another proof that such claim of divine preservation of the Quran is nothing by a mere wishful thinking, since in these attached photos from the online site listed, shows a total of 25 different readings. However, the Hadith above stayed only SEVEN! Which serves to show that when it comes to the Quran, every single decision associated with its history, collection, recension, Variant Text Readings, and standardization; every one of those decisions were MAN-MADE decisions which lack any support from the Quran itself.

As a result of this simple observation, our simple questions to our Muslim friends are this:

1) Which one of these 25 Qurans below is the original one preserved in Heaven?

2) Which one of these 25 Qurans below was the original reading revealed to Muhammad by Gabriel?

3) Which SEVEN readings out of these 25 readings below were the SEVEN revealed to Muhammad?
Al Fadi is an ex Muslim from Saudi Arabia

Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by Nobody: 6:58am On Oct 29, 2017
this piece further buttress that quran isn't complete without hadith.



ex muslims are growing in numbers and as such could make islam weak in the arab world in the time to come.
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by iamgenius(m): 7:07am On Oct 29, 2017
You are only showing how IGNORANT YOU ARE. Don't you know what a dialect means?
Go school, you no go, see what copy and paste without knowledge has caused you.
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by folafola(m): 3:01pm On Oct 29, 2017
iamgenius:
You are only showing how IGNORANT YOU ARE. Don't you know what a dialect means?
Go school, you no go, see what copy and paste without knowledge has caused you.

Instead of abusing me, why not respond to the post!!! Your response is just too far from bring an answer to the above
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by iamgenius(m): 6:41pm On Oct 29, 2017
folafola:


Instead of abusing me, why not respond to the post!!! Your response is just too far from bring an answer to the above
Did I abuse you? No, I didn't. I'm just trying to teach you what you don't know.

The seven readings mean SEVEN DIALECTS.
Arabic language has SEVEN DIALECTS, The Quran was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) in those seven dialects. If anybody recites using any if the dialects, they are still saying the same thing.

To help you understand this, we have many dialects for every kanguages: If a Yoruba man from Ibadan or Oyo wants to say YAM in his language he will say "ISU". If a Yoruba man from Ekiti or Ijebu (I don't remember which of the two) wants to say YAM in the same Yoruba language, he will say "USU". They are both referring to YAM.

YOU GOT IT?
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by plainbibletruth: 7:22pm On Oct 29, 2017
iamgenius:

Did I abuse you? No, I didn't. I'm just trying to teach you what you don't know.

The seven readings mean SEVEN DIALECTS.
Arabic language has SEVEN DIALECTS, The Quran was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) in those seven dialects. If anybody recites using any if the dialects, they are still saying the same thing.

To help you understand this, we have many dialects for every kanguages: If a Yoruba man from Ibadan or Oyo wants to say YAM in his language he will say "ISU". If a Yoruba man from Ekiti or Ijebu (I don't remember which of the two) wants to say YAM in the same Yoruba language, he will say "USU". They are both referring to YAM.
YOU GOT IT?

Why are you answering your own question instead of addressing the OP's questions?

Are you trying to DEFLECT the issues?
If not, why don't you go back, take a careful look at the questions and answer if you can.
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by iamgenius(m): 8:28pm On Oct 29, 2017
plainbibletruth:


Why are you answering your own question instead of addressing the OP's questions?

Are you trying to DEFLECT the issues?
If not, why don't you go back, take a careful look at the questions and answer if you can.
You like to read the first paragraph of my replies. Good luck.
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by UmarIbnShittu(m): 8:36pm On Oct 29, 2017
plainbibletruth:


Why are you answering your own question instead of addressing the OP's questions?

Are you trying to DEFLECT the issues?
If not, why don't you go back, take a careful look at the questions and answer if you can.
he has answered it
But op am not sure passed through anything called a school

I have noticed something about you:why do you keep bringing up topic that has been adressed?
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by plainbibletruth: 9:34pm On Oct 29, 2017
UmarIbnShittu:
he has answered it
But op am not sure passed through anything called a school

I have noticed something about you:why do you keep bringing up topic that has been adressed?

Which TOPIC that has been addressed do I keep bringing up?
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by UmarIbnShittu(m): 10:06pm On Oct 29, 2017
plainbibletruth:


Which TOPIC that has been addressed do I keep bringing up?
u knw the topics am refering to
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by plainbibletruth: 12:06am On Oct 30, 2017
UmarIbnShittu:
u knw the topics am refering to

Anyhow, this thread is about which version of the quran is original.

A few Islamic claims about the quran:

1. Mohamed perfectly memorized the quran.
2. He dictated the quran to his followers who memorised it and wrote it down exactly as it was told them.
3. Mohamed regularly examined and ratified what was written.
4. There has only ever been one version of the quran.
5. All qurans are identical with no variants.
6. The quran is perfectly preserved. Because of this it is superior to other scriptures.
7. These claims can be proven.

But are these claims true?

Let's look at the true position:
1. Mohamed did not a perfect memory.
From the quran:
"We will make you recite, [O Muhammad], and you will not forget, EXCEPT what Allah should will. Indeed, He knows what is declared and what is hidden." Q 87:6-7

So Allah can will him to forget.
Some Moslem apologists will argue that what Allah will let Mohamed forget are those portions he (Allah) abrogated; but nothing in this verse or any other verse says so.
Btw, if the quran is a book that has been perfectly preserved in heaven why didn't Allah just give a single rendition instead of stating something and then rescinding it?
From the Hadith:
Narrated Aisha: The Prophet heard a man reciting the Qur'an in the mosque and said, "May Allah bestow His Mercy on him, as he has reminded me of such-and-such verses of such a Surah." (Sahih al-Bukhari: vol. 6, bk. 61, no. 556; also Sahih Muslim: bk. 4, no. 1720)

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: ... (Muhammad said) I am only a human being and I forget just as you do; so when I forget, remind me ... (Sunan Abu Dawud: bk. 3, no. 1015; also Sahih al-Bukhari: vol. 1, bk. 8, no. 394)

2. Not so. There is evidence to the effect that a follower of Mohamed once suggested his own phrasing of a recitation Mohamed made and had it written the way he proposed.

3. No. Apart from Mohamed other men taught the quran. There is no evidence that Mohamed sought to ensure that there was a regular coming together to compare notes.

4. Different companions of Mohamed had their differing renditions of the Quran.

5. That the Caliph Uthman destroyed several differing versions of the quran clearly confirms that the quran has never had only one version.

6. No. Uthman's quran did not include the vowel markings or the dots used to distinguish between certain letters. As a result words can be formed or read in different ways even though Moslem apologists will argue that they are dialectical renderings.

7. Moslem apologists are NEVER able to CLEARLY prove any of these claims. Any purported claim to that effect is false and a pursuit in futility.
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by folafola(m): 5:30am On Oct 30, 2017
plainbibletruth:


Anyhow, this thread is about which version of the quran is original.

A few Islamic claims about the quran:

1. Mohamed perfectly memorized the quran.
2. He dictated the quran to his followers who memorised it and wrote it down exactly as it was told them.
3. Mohamed regularly examined and ratified what was written.
4. There has only ever been one version of the quran.
5. All qurans are identical with no variants.
6. The quran is perfectly preserved. Because of this it is superior to other scriptures.
7. These claims can be proven.

But are these claims true?

Let's look at the true position:
1. Mohamed did not a perfect memory.
From the quran:
"We will make you recite, [O Muhammad], and you will not forget, EXCEPT what Allah should will. Indeed, He knows what is declared and what is hidden." Q 87:6-7

So Allah can will him to forget.
Some Moslem apologists will argue that what Allah will let Mohamed forget are those portions he (Allah) abrogated; but nothing in this verse or any other verse says so.
Btw, if the quran is a book that has been perfectly preserved in heaven why didn't Allah just give a single rendition instead of stating something and then rescinding it?
From the Hadith:
Narrated Aisha: The Prophet heard a man reciting the Qur'an in the mosque and said, "May Allah bestow His Mercy on him, as he has reminded me of such-and-such verses of such a Surah." (Sahih al-Bukhari: vol. 6, bk. 61, no. 556; also Sahih Muslim: bk. 4, no. 1720)

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: ... (Muhammad said) I am only a human being and I forget just as you do; so when I forget, remind me ... (Sunan Abu Dawud: bk. 3, no. 1015; also Sahih al-Bukhari: vol. 1, bk. 8, no. 394)

2. Not so. There is evidence to the effect that a follower of Mohamed once suggested his own phrasing of a recitation Mohamed made and had it written the way he proposed.

3. No. Apart from Mohamed other men taught the quran. There is no evidence that Mohamed sought to ensure that there was a regular coming together to compare notes.

4. Different companions of Mohamed had their differing renditions of the Quran.

5. That the Caliph Uthman destroyed several differing versions of the quran clearly confirms that the quran has never had only one version.

6. No. Uthman's quran did not include the vowel markings or the dots used to distinguish between certain letters. As a result words can be formed or read in different ways even though Moslem apologists will argue that they are dialectical renderings.

7. Moslem apologists are NEVER able to CLEARLY prove any of these claims. Any purported claim to that effect is false and a pursuit in futility.
you are indeed a blessing. hope to meet you
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by iamgenius(m): 5:39am On Oct 30, 2017

The seven readings mean SEVEN DIALECTS.
Arabic language has SEVEN DIALECTS, The Quran was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) in those seven dialects. If anybody recites using any if the dialects, they are still saying the same thing.

To help you understand this, we have many dialects for every kanguages: If a Yoruba man from Ibadan or Oyo wants to say YAM in his language he will say "ISU". If a Yoruba man from Ekiti or Ijebu (I don't remember which of the two) wants to say YAM in the same Yoruba language, he will say "USU". They are both referring to YAM.
Re: Which Of These 25 Arabic Quran With Variant Is Original? by folafola(m): 8:55am On Nov 05, 2017
Is this a variance or not!!!

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