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Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? - Islam for Muslims (6) - Nairaland

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Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Crescentholm: 8:18pm On Nov 09, 2017
Empiree:
It seems to me that we are just getting started on this. You are trying to inundate me with references since you could not see my argument about nabi Isa's(a s) lifeless body. Hence, you need to stay tune i bring up my references too. I have been so reluctant to this bcuz i believed you are pretty much aware of those ahadth in connection of Jesus, Gog and Magog and Dajjal. But since you chose to ignore all that, then, let's get started.

Mind you, in your very own narration of Qadiani, you have flaws in them about age of Isa (alaihi salam) and his eventual return.

I hope you also know there is another narration in your literature that says Isa alaiy salam was 125 at the time of his "spiritual ascension".


# According to rules of narration (riwayah): Hafiz Haithmi has called it Daeef (i.e. unauthentic). After quoting this narration he writes:

رواه الطبراني باسناد ضعيف ، وروى البزار بعضه أيضا وفى رجاله ضعف


“Tabarani narrated it with a weak chain and Bazzar also narrated some part of it and in its chain (also) is weakness.”
(Majma’ Al-Zawai’d Wa Manba Al-Fawai’d 4/67, Chapter on the illness and death of the Prophet)





In the light of rationality (diraya): According to the principle of diraya (i.e. rationality) as well, this narration is not acceptable. The narration gives the notion as if every Prophet lives half the age of the Prophet immediately before him. This cannot be true and thus can never be uttered by the Noble and Truthful Prophet (PBUH). If Jesus (PBUH) lived for 120 years then John the Baptist (Yahya A.S.) should have lived for 240 years but he lived less then the period Jesus (PBUH) remained on Earth. Moreover following this cycle we have to believe that Adam (PBUH) perhaps lived millions of years which cannot be true.





Moreover there is a lot of confusion regarding the wording of the of the narration which is even otherwise weak. In Ibn Asaakir’s Tarikh Damishq (47/482) and Ibn Saa’d’s Tabaqaat Al-Kubra (2/195) there are narrations that tend to convey as if Jesus (PBUH) lived for 150 years. Indeed these narrations are also of dubious narration like the one about 120 years.



Ibn Asaakir after quoting both these narrations says:

كذا في هاتين الروايتين والصحيح أن عيسى لم يبلغ هذا العمر


“It’s like that in these two narrations [about 120 & 150 years] and the truth is that Jesus (PBUH) did not reach this age.” (Tarikh Damishq 47/482)



Now, let's turn the tables, let me ask why Qadianis not take the narration in full and apply it to other issues? Does it not say, “And I have been told that there is no Prophet after other Prophet but he lives a life half then the one who lived earlier”? While it does, how could Mirza Qadiani be a Prophet for according to this narration?. if there ever was to be any Prophet after the Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), he would live only 31 or 32 years, half of the Prophet’ (PBUH) age i.e. 63 years while Mirza lived far more. Verily this proves the fragility of Qadiani arguments.



And since you believe Qadianis believe more and more prophets will come "after" Rasullullah (SAWS), according to Qadianis Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib was a “prophet”. And it means with every new prophet his age will be half of preceeding prophet. A time will come when subsequent prophets will be 15 years, 7.5 years, 3.45 years….actually future prophets will be done with their ministry before they could reach age of maturity. grin




Now here is Qadiani/Ahmadi contradiction. Below quotes are gleaned from their literature.


"Hence, I shall prove in this book that Jesus (Peace be upon him) did not die on the cross neither did he go up to the heavens nor it should ever be hoped that he will return to the earth from the heavens; rather, he died at the age of 120 years in Srinagar in Kashmir, and his grave is in the Khanyar Region of Srinagar." (Maseeh Hindustan Mein, (Jesus in India) Roohani Khazain, vol.15, p.14)



"Authentic narrations of hadith prove that our holy Prophet (pbuh) said in the person of Jesus two such qualities were combined which were not present in any other prophet. Firstly, he lived his full life, i.e. he was alive for 125 years. Secondly, he toured most of the parts of the world�now it is obvious if he had ascended to heavens at the age of only 33 years, then the tradition of 125 years would not have been correct, neither he could have toured at such a young age of 33. These traditions are not only mentioned in the authentic and ancient books of hadith, but they are so popular among all the sects of Muslims that none can be imagined more famous." (Maseeh Hindustan Mein {Jesus in India}, Roohani Khazain, vol. 15, pp. 55-56)


"Ya ayuha lazina aamanu takullaha, was Qulu qowlan shadida"..

Did you get the above book or you just copied and pasted from your so called scholars site?

If you got it, I don't expect you to be posting ignorantly.
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Crescentholm: 8:53pm On Nov 09, 2017
[
EMPIRE]

I hope you read this before posting?. You see tafsir you quoted shot your foot?.

Me not speaking sometimes is as a result of how u

# @ first bold, my question CLEARLY says he will return in contrast to your belief that Isa alaih salam is dead and will not return. So you refute yourself.



# @ second bold, my question remains. If his soul left his body, it means his lifeless material body is evidence of his death. Question is, where is the body?. There is no historical fact of this. But you brought up British and biblical reference to back up your point. Why not Qur'an since you said Quran is not silent on the issue?.


Apart from that, Quran says that they follow conjecture. "And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain." If his material body was on the ground, they would not have doubted or assumed or confused about his death. And they would have buried him and nabi Muhammad(saw) would have given us clue of the location just like Noah's ark. So you see confusion within your narration now?



===========================================
[/quote]

First of all, I don't think I have posted any Hadith or fact credited to Ghulam Ahmad. It's your personal grudge that hunts you presently.

I now have a proof to my claim that you're reading with prejudice or ignorant of the truth if it's right to use such word.

I'm surprise, MANY A PROOF FROM THE QURAN which YOU ARE YET TO CHALLENGE, instead, you either claim it's my translation or tafsir despite QUOTED VERBATIM.

Brother, You forgot to make a statement on the "ALL APOSTLES BEFORE HIM PBUH ARE DEAD..." that I posted above.

I'll also appreciate you explain the verse to me in your own understanding whether it DECLARES HIS A.S DEATH OR NOT.

ISA a.s IS DEAD AND THE DEAD HAVE NEVER AND WILL NEVER RETURN TO LIFE IN THAT SAME FORM, EXCEPT SOMEONE ELSE WITH SIMILAR ATTRIBUTE (IN TERMS OF MESSAGE / WORK Just like John a.s is to Elijah a.s)
Back to your assertions of me claiming Isa a.s will not come back. Have you forgotten I Quoted from the Bible, regarding Prophet Elijah a.s where Isa a.s was reported to have pointed John a.s as the second coming of Elijah a.s. So Isa a.s used that to explain to the deciples that he will return same way as Elijah (in another form). SO YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY WRONG IN YOUR ASSERTION.

QUR'AN's VIEW ABOUT THE BODY OF ISA a.s
May I request humbly for the Quran proof for the location of Muhammad's pbuh body or Musa's a.s body.
Jazzakumullahu as I await your answer please.


**Lastly, as I Quoted earlier, knowledge is the lost property of a Muslim and it's gotten or achieved by anyone who seeks it not remain ignorantly at a position (as Allah says, "sanuq riuka fala tansa" meaning: "read and He shall make you remember"wink

WHAT IS HISTORICAL FACT?
If BBC DOCUMENTARY IS TERMED AS HISTORICAL FACTS, because your so called scholars said Ghulam Ahmad inspired it, WHAT OF THE OTHER BOOKS I POSTED? ARE THEY ALSO BBC?

IGNORANCE, THEY SAY IS WORSE THAN ILLITERACY, & IF YOU CLAIM SEEKING KNOWLEDGE IS EXPENSIVE, WHY NOT TRY IGNORANCE (and remain uninformed?)

I'll repost the books (MAYBE IN CAPITAL LETTERS SO YOU CAN SEE IT THIS TIME) for the sake of those sincere seekers after truth.

MANY HISTORICAL RECORDS AND BOOKS ARE AVAILABLE.

*THE LOST TRIBES AND THE SAXONS OF THE EAST AND WEST BY GEORGE MOORE M.D (LONGMAN, 1861).
(Ghulam Ahmad have not said neither have he made any claim to anything by 1861).

*CYCLOPEDIA OF INDIA AND SOUTHERN ASIA BY SURGEON GENERAL EDWARD BALFOUR. VOL. I THIRD EDITION.

*A JOURNEY FROM BENGAL TO ENGLAND, THROUGH THE NORTHERN PART OF INDIA, KASHMIRE, AFGHANISTAN, AND PERISA AND INTO RUSSIA BY THE CASPIAN-SEA, BY GEORGE FORSTER. VOL. II (R. FAULDER & SON, LONDON, 1808).

(Ghulam Ahmad is not born by 1808, how unwise will a person declared someone inspire an information that already exist before his birth)
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Crescentholm: 9:17pm On Nov 09, 2017
Brother, I'LL APPRECIATE an EXPLANATION TO THIS VERSE from SURAH MARIAM. You can as well translate yours with the Arabic please.


Yahya a.s said in Surah Maryam, Verse 15:

وَسَلَامٌ عَلَيْهِ يَوْمَ وُلِدَ وَيَوْمَ يَمُوتُ وَيَوْمَ يُبْعَثُ حَيًّا

And peace on him (Yahya a.s) on the day HE WAS BORN, and on THE DAY HE DIES, and on the day HE IS RAISED TO LIFE (AGAIN)


In Sura 19:31-34, Isa a.s said

He said, I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet. And He has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live; And He has made me dutiful toward my mother, and He has not made me haughty and unblessed. And PEACE WAS ON ME (Isa a.s) THE DAY I WAS BORN, and PEACE WILL BE ON ME THE DAY I SHALL DIE, and the DAY I SHALL BE RAISED UP TO LIFE AGAIN.

Questions:

1. Isa a.s made many promises, which includes "GIVING ALMS AS LONG AS HE LIVES".
So if Isa a.s is TO BE ALIVE, WHO IS HIS ALMS BEING GIVING TO IN HEAVEN?

(otherwise WE CONCLUDE ISA A.S LIED (astagfurullah) or IS DEAD.


2. Just as it's said about Yahya a.s,whereas, Yahya a.s is not expected to be coming back to life, why is Isa a.s expected by some scholars view?

3. Could the QURAN STILL BE SEEN AS SILENT ON ISA's DEATH?



**Furthermore, Allah said in Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 117 WHEN AN INCIDENT OF THE DAY OF QIYAMA IS BEING REPORTED, that Isa a.s will deny those that worshipped him saying the following:

I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I WAS A WITNESS OF THEM SO LONG AS I WAS AMONG THEM, BUT WHEN THOU DIDST CAUSE ME TO DIE, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things.
(English - Shakir)


Question:
** If Isa a.s was to have came back in person from heaven or samawat as claimed, WILL HE HAVE TO DENY (or liked to Allah) KNOWING ABOUT THEIR WORSHIPPING HIM (as it was no where in history that he was worshipped when he was alive before) BECAUSE HE WITNESSED THEM HIMSELF AND MUST HAVE CORRECTED THEM AT HIS SECOND APPEARANCE (as they say to complete his mission)?

Jazzakumullahu khairan as I expect your responses. Will appreciate a straight response now. No more references to distorted Hadith please.
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Empiree: 10:42pm On Nov 09, 2017
^

We would be going in cycle over and again. "The Day I Die" NOT 'THE DAY I DIED'...which means FUTURE TENSE.

His(as) body you are referencing is not from islamic sources. You are citing British, India and all that when Quran tells you CLEARLY that they follow conjecture. Why should a muslim rely on their archaeological works on this?. Why is ONLY Ahmadiyya accepted their result and not entire muslim world?.

The same people who claimed in their Book that nabi Musa(as) buried himself sad and you want me to accept their controversial research?. They are entitled to that.
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Sike(m): 7:30am On Nov 10, 2017
Nice topic
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Fundamentalist: 9:35am On Nov 10, 2017
taoaliu1:


MOTTO: LOVE FOR ALL, HATRED FOR NONE

The above quote is enough to label you a disbeliever.

What you are insinuating is that you love idol worshippers (mushriks)

You love Christians

You love atheists

Jews

Hindus etc

Where is your AL WALA WAL BARA ?

All the above mentioned set of individuals wage unrelentless war against Islam, Muslims and the Prophets, yet you love them . and yet still you claim you believe in the Qur'an even a non Muslim will call you a hypocrite

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Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by password990(m): 9:59pm On Jan 20, 2018
That is nothing but just a lie nobody ban Ahmadiyya from doing Hajj in Mecca
pdppower:
I don't have any problem with the Ahmadiyyahs, but my questions for them are-
Do they see their founder as another prophet after the holy prophet?
Since they are banned in Mecca, do they go on Hajj if they can afford it?
Why do they say only one redeem after prayers?
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by password990(m): 10:37pm On Jan 20, 2018
I can now see where ur mistakes emanated, I don't know why people tend to believe all what they saw or read on the Internet than what their friends or people around tell them, u are posting this untrue information or story about Ahmadiyya based on what they told u and what u Google and Wiki search but I want u to know that there are a lot of information on the Internet that are not true and very far from true for example try to Google search how to wear hijab, am very sure that in the first page even second u will not see proper and Islamic way or mode of wearing hijab, am saying this because i know proper and Islamic mode/way of wearing it, but what of if those that don't know Islamic way of wearing hijab see it, they tend to believe it. U believe what you are told and Google search about Ahmadiyya because u don't know Ahmadiyya.
iamgenius:

What I was told? Don't you see the references? And don't be too lazy to Google or Wiki it.
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by iamgenius(m): 7:39pm On Jan 21, 2018
password990:
I can now see where ur mistakes emanated, I don't know why people tend to believe all what they saw or read on the Internet than what their friends or people around tell them, u are posting this untrue information or story about Ahmadiyya based on what they told u and what u Google and Wiki search but I want u to know that there are a lot of information on the Internet that are not true and very far from true for example try to Google search how to wear hijab, am very sure that in the first page even second u will not see proper and Islamic way or mode of wearing hijab, am saying this because i know proper and Islamic mode/way of wearing it, but what of if those that don't know Islamic way of wearing hijab see it, they tend to believe it. U believe what you are told and Google search about Ahmadiyya because u don't know Ahmadiyya.
I agree there are lots of false information on the internet. If you're very sure that Ahmadiyya is not what I claimed above, then disprove my claims by citing some evidences from their (Ahmadiyya) reliable websites or blogs.
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by iamgenius(m): 7:57pm On Jan 21, 2018
password990:
That is nothing but just a lie nobody ban Ahmadiyya from doing Hajj in Mecca
Bring Your proof
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by tintingz(m): 2:04pm On Jan 24, 2018
Fundamentalist:


The above quote is enough to label you a disbeliever.

What you are insinuating is that you love idol worshippers (mushriks)

You love Christians

You love atheists

Jews

Hindus etc

Where is your AL WALA WAL BARA ?

All the above mentioned set of individuals wage unrelentless war against Islam, Muslims and the Prophets, yet you love them . and yet still you claim you believe in the Qur'an even a non Muslim will call you a hypocrite

What is wrong loving the people above? Are you a sadist?

When I said Islam is one of the problem in this world, you folks will think I'm lying, now look at this terrorist thinking muslim, he's hating fellow humans because of his religion dogmas.

Almost every nation, religion, beliefs have faced conquest, terrorism at a point in time, so stop using the silly victim-card game here, Muslims are not the only people being victms of attacks. Today, Muslims are still the problem of this world, so what are you saying?

If Ahmadiyya preach love for all, that's exactly what the world need right now not hating because a fairy book said so or some clashes that happened in the past, there are good and bad eggs.

Step up and move on.
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Fundamentalist: 2:40pm On Jan 24, 2018
tintingz:
What is wrong loving the people above? Are you a sadist?

When I said Islam is one of the problem in this world, you folks will think I'm lying, now look at this terrorist thinking muslim, he's hating fellow humans because of his religion dogmas.

Everyone nation, religion, beliefs has face conquest, terrorism at a point in time, so stop using the silly victim-card game here, Muslims are not the only people being victms of attacks. Today, Muslims are still the problem of this world, so what are you saying?

If Ahmadiyya preach love for all, that's exactly what the world need right now not hating because a fairy book said so or some attack that happened in the past, there are good and bad eggs.

Step up and move on.

Get a life .

I'm quite happy I'm not as delusional as you cheesy cheesy
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by tintingz(m): 7:38pm On Jan 24, 2018
Fundamentalist:


Get a life .

I'm quite happy I'm not as delusional as you cheesy cheesy
Who's delusional?

Someone who preaches love or someone who keeps grudges and preach hatred because of religion?
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by password990(m): 9:27pm On Jan 30, 2018
iamgenius:
Bring Your proof
Do your funding very well, Saudi don't look at whether u are Nasfat or any sect as criteria for Hajj.
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by password990(m): 10:10pm On Jan 30, 2018
U are so funny Love for all hatred for none is enough to label Ahmadiyya disbeliever, is that base on what Quran says or what the holy prophet SAW said. If I may ask what is the preaching of the holy prophet?. The people that the holy prophet SAW and Quran said we should not associate and take as close friend are those disbeliever that hate us because of our religion, chase us out of our house, masjid, help those who chase us and that we should not perform our daily prayer. That is when we can fight them. But if they don't do all mentioned above their is no sin in loving them to be able to live peaceful in our environment, country and world at large, but not to the extent that we will be following them to their place of worship and believe in what they believe. We love them because they are human being like us not because of their religion.
Fundamentalist:


The above quote is enough to label you a disbeliever.

What you are insinuating is that you love idol worshippers (mushriks)

You love Christians

You love atheists

Jews

Hindus etc

Where is your AL WALA WAL BARA ?

All the above mentioned set of individuals wage unrelentless war against Islam, Muslims and the Prophets, yet you love them . and yet still you claim you believe in the Qur'an even a non Muslim will call you a hypocrite

Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by misturib: 10:09am On Apr 27, 2018
Has anybody here tried googling Jesus in India, you would be amazed by what you find.
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Empiree: 10:55am On Apr 27, 2018
misturib:
Has anybody here tried googling Jesus in India, you would be amazed by what you find.
don't believe in everything you read online. I know about online theories

1 Like

Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by misturib: 12:59pm On May 09, 2018
Empiree:
don't believe in everything you read online. I know about online theories

I am not talking online theories cooked up by people, I was actually referring to a book.
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Empiree: 2:07pm On May 09, 2018
misturib:


I am not talking online theories cooked up by people, I was actually referring to a book.
I understand. It is conjecture though especially in Indian, Pakistan Asia subcontinent. It is not uncommon to hear this from them. QUR'AN is silent on whereabout of Jesus shortly after birth. As a Muslim it is safe to say Allah hide his identity just as He's hiding identity of Imam Mahdi right now.
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by iamgenius(m): 2:49pm On May 09, 2018
Empiree:
I understand. It is conjecture though especially in Indian, Pakistan Asia subcontinent. It is not uncommon to hear this from them. QUR'AN is silent on whereabout of Jesus shortly after birth. As a Muslim it is safe to say Allah hide his identity just as He's hiding identity of Imam Mahdi right now.
I trust you, òbe olójúméjì angry
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Empiree: 2:51pm On May 09, 2018
iamgenius:
I trust you, òbe olójúméjì angry
what's this one saying?
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by iamgenius(m): 2:56pm On May 09, 2018
Empiree:
what's this one saying?
grin
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by abat4real37(f): 3:46pm On Sep 10, 2018
tintingz:
What is wrong loving the people above? Are you a sadist?

When I said Islam is one of the problem in this world, you folks will think I'm lying, now look at this terrorist thinking muslim, he's hating fellow humans because of his religion dogmas.

Everyone nation, religion, beliefs has face conquest, terrorism at a point in time, so stop using the silly victim-card game here, Muslims are not the only people being victms of attacks. Today, Muslims are still the problem of this world, so what are you saying?

If Ahmadiyya preach love for all, that's exactly what the world need right now not hating because a fairy book said so or some attack that happened in the past, there are good and bad eggs.

Step up and move on.
more reason why Ahmadiyya will have a program and invite Pastor and never invite any other Muslim leader, and Ahmadiyya will be quoting bible
Re: Who Are Ahmadiyya Or Qadianiyya? by Rashduct4luv(m): 10:42am On Oct 09, 2018
Simply put,Ahmadiyyah is Kufr!

We ask Allah to guide us to the truth and make us die on it.

Aamin

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