agaugust:
[size=13pt]

Are you maaad ? We ask for South African navy warrior class data, you posted Reshef Sa'ar 4 missile boat developed and built for Israel Navy.

Post source of your 4,000 mile range for SAN Warrior class patrol boat !

# Patches Defeated....Posts Israeli navy boat....Fraudster !

Am gonna t.orment Patches today o !

[/size]

The Reshef and Warrior class are basically identical, except our Warrior class boats dont carry missiles anymore.

MikeCZAR:
Your sailors will eat mermaids along the way?

Nigerian OPVs are LONG-ENDURANCE deep offshore high sea OPVs, nothing with that super capability can be found in South African navy
.

jln115:

The Reshef and Warrior class are basically identical, except our Warrior class boats dont carry missiles anymore.

You come again, jump into other peoples arguments, get trapped in the process.....needs lies/fraud to escape self-trap.

The Chinese Type 056 has 2,000 nm range, the Thailand Type 056 has about 3,000 nm range, same class, different specs.

Now be careful what you say, so I don't whip your azz again with horse-whip till you bleed
.

MikeCZAR:
Nigeria has:


0 Frigates.
0 submarines.

Come back when you have something.

South Africa has:

0 Long Endurance OPV
0 Stealth IPV
0 Stealth MPV
0 Stealth OPV
0 High speed ocean interceptor

Come back when you have something.

Patchesagain:

China is hardly "Scrambling" to build that class of vessel
They are "scrambling" to build destroyers and design a new cruiser, not sh1tty little gun-boats

Below is a report that shows that China is indeed scrambling to build more vessels,including a large number of missile armed OPVs,at an almost alarming pace for the purpose of patrolling and defending its territorial waters:
.
http://defencetech.org/2014/12/03/report-chinese-navys-fleet-to-outnumber-u-s-by-2020/
.
They arent wasting funds on overhyped submarines and economically insustainable frigates.I ask again,why would they build and donate such sophisticated vessels to serve us?
Anyway,China is not building our OPVs for us,China and Nigeria are cooperating in the area of technology transfer in the contruction armed seacrafts,China is only contributing 40% while Nigeria is to finish up with 60%,after which we would begin wholly indigenous contruction of large missile-armed OPVs.

agaugust:



Final Slaughter, we killed Rooivalk fat turkey to roast for dinner in Abuja .

.

The Half-French Rooivalk is obsolete, archaic and has no place in the modern battle space!

We know this, Denel knows this, the buyers who rejected it also know this....... Hell, even the SAAF knows this.

FighterPilot:

There is nothing ridiculous from that statement. China is assuming the status of superpower in Africa and has offered to build Nigeria two OPVs including Cameroon. Nigeria does not have the capacity to build her own warship other than through foreign sponsors. China had to give you the money and gun point you thereafter that you are not going to contract anyone else other than a Chinese company to carry out all your project, yet you are still going to pay them back.

China is superpower only in SA,certainly not in Nigeria,or in the comity of nations for that matter.
it is SA that wags its tail and promises to convert its foreign reserves to yuan,it is SA that has meekly stopped trading with taiwan,it is SA that receives orders from the Chinese seat of power.
Clearly you know nothing about Nigeria's maritime capacity,Nigeria builds civilian ships,cargoes and freights,We only need missile,radar and surveillance technology to begin building warships.

patches689:


Henry120

I am not even going to comment on that artical, how it is open to interpretation, how you misquoted it, or the numerous inconsistencies in it.

Why?

Because it is all irrelevant. It doesnt matter if the Rooivalk was steam powered and its computers were stone abacuses.

All that matters is this:

1. The Rooivalk has not only more capabilities, but more advanced capabilities, than your Hind
2. The Rooivalk is a wholly indigenous design and development, unlike your Hind.

Thats it, Rooivalk is being upgraded because WE IN SOUTH AFRICA want a platform that is on par with the likes of the Apache, Tiger and Z-10. If WE IN SOUTH AFRICA were only concerned with something that was on the same level as your Hind, it would never be upgraded, and would have been developed in half the time.

Lets not even mention the cognitive dissonance you display in calling the Rooivalk "obsolete" when your own country operates the Hind.

Patches689, your emotional rant does nothing to placate the indisputable fact that the Rooivalk is obsolete and out of it depths.

Enough evidence has been provided, with credible sources, including IHS janes and multiple South-African news sites. The Rooivalk half-french Helicopter runs on computers that are 30 years old.

The IHS Janes and Engineeringnews articles are crystal........ the Rooivalk runs on old, ancient computers.

- the Dailymaverick goes on to say only slight upgrades were done on the block 1F, with actual new additions been the mokopa missiles. Missiles which haven't been ordered by the SAAF.


1. South-Africa does not have the capabilities or expertise to design and produce Helicopters. The Apartheid Government didn't have it in the 70's, you don't have it today.

The Apartheid Government had unhindered access to a wide range of French Helicopters/ blueprints and French expertise. This was the base of the Rooivalk.

- Helicopters running on 30 years old computers cannot be considered as advanced.

It makes both Tactical, Economic and military sense to get Proven attack Helicopters from trusted and reliable Helicopter suppliers than to be stuck with a 65% French Helicopter that is both obsolete and unproven.

- There is nothing largely indigenous about the Rooivalk !!!!

The Half-French Rooivalk is no where in the class of the Tiger, Z-10 or the Apache...... not even the Hind.


The SAAF is stuck with a largely irrelevant Helicopter, that is unproven and obsolete.

patches689:




Rooivalk Specifications:

Thales TopOwl Helmets
- A Thales Avionics TopOwl helmet-mounted sight display (HMSD) provides the crew with a head-up display of information for nap-of-the-earth flight (NOE).
- TopOwl incorporates an integrated measurement system for directing an articulated weapon such as the cannon, or air-to-air missile seeker heads (look to kill capabilities).

Electronic Warfare
- Rooivalk's electronic warfare suite is the fully integrated helicopter electronic warfare self-protection suite (HEWSPS)
- incorporates: radar warning, laser warning and countermeasures dispensing system.
- The system is flight-line programmable and in-flight adaptable to match the threat library with the mission's area of operation.
-radar warner features low-effective radiated power (ERP) / pulse Doppler radar detection beyond radar detection range, ultra broadband frequency coverage, high pulse density handling and internal instantaneous frequency measurement.
- laser warner provides broadband laser frequency coverage to detect and display rangefinding, designating and missile guidance laser threats.
- the countermeasures dispensing system, which is operated in manual, semi-automatic or fully automatic mode, is charged with chaff and flare cartridges.

TDATS (Target detection, acquisition and tracking)

- The TDATS sight is equipped with a low-level television sensor
- Forward-looking infrared (FLIR)
- autotracker
- laser rangefinder
-laser designator.

Navigation
- Doppler radar velocity sensor
- Thales Avionics eight-channel global positioning system
- heading sensor unit and an air data unit.

Communication
- two VHF/UHF transceivers with FM, AM with digital speech processing
- one HF radio with frequency hopping
- secure voice and data channels
- and an IFF transponder.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/rooivalk/

[size=20pt]Now your job is simple:

1. Show which of these capabilities existed 30 years ago
2. Show which of these capabilities your Hind has.


The fact that you cannot answer these 2 questions tells me everything [/size]

[b]Rooivalk Remains 30 Years Obsolete.

Fake Upgrades :

There is NO PROOF that the Rooivalk computers or avionics were upgraded as proposed. No proof the money was release, no proof the job was done.

The only certain upgrade was to add ability to use Mokopa missile which was never ordered into service.

Next job was the over-heating cannon that was cooled from overheating, repaired, not upgraded. ZERO technology advancement. Same old gun

Rooivalk remains 30 years obsolete....even Rwanda won't buy it !


"Denel Aviation finally handed over five new Rooivalk Mark 1 combat helicopters to the South African Air Force on 1 April 2011, after years of development, building and testing.

The new Rooivalk Mk.1 is not much different to its old predecessor , the AH-2 Rooivalk.

The cannons which used to be a bother on the older Rooivalk by overheating very quickly and preventing rapid and sustained fire, have now been fixed.

The chief of the South African Air Force General Carlo Gagiano said, “ What is new is the Mokopa missile , which was test-fired at the Overberg range a long time ago and we had some very good results.”

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2011-04-04-rooivalk-the-next-generation-mark-1/#.VWZ7hvlVhBd

"The investment comes despite the helicopter's builder, Denel, questioning the viability of the 23-year-old project. The rotorcraft's cockpit reflects an avionics and computer processing power system that is now two decades old.

They are divided on whether the project is worth the effort. Some sources say it amounts to throwing good money after bad and paying for a Porsche to do a CitiGolf's job."

http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5449&catid=96:defence-and-aerospace-technology


Rooivalk remains a 30 year obsolete attack helicopter.

CASE CLOSED
.
[/b]

agaugust:


You come again, jump into other peoples arguments, get trapped in the process.....needs lies/fraud to escape self-trap.

The Chinese Type 056 has 2,000 nm range, the Thailand Type 056 has about 3,000 nm range, same class, different specs.

Now be careful what you say, so I don't whip your azz again with horse-whip till you bleed
.

Hahah when did you whip my azz bro? I know your very delusional at times but fvck mate is getting bad!!

Anyway heres the official SAN website with the specs on our Warrior class OPVs:

As you can see they have a rang of over 3200Nm

Henry120:


[b]Rooivalk Remains 30 Years Obsolete.

Fake Upgrades :

There is NO PROOF that the Rooivalk computers or avionics were upgraded as proposed. No proof the money was release, no proof the job was done.

The only certain upgrade was to add ability to use Mokopa missile which was never ordered into service.

Next job was the over-heating cannon that was cooled from overheating, repaired, not upgraded. ZERO technology advancement. Same old gun

Rooivalk remains 30 years obsolete....even Rwanda won't buy it !


"Denel Aviation finally handed over five new Rooivalk Mark 1 combat helicopters to the South African Air Force on 1 April 2011, after years of development, building and testing.

The new Rooivalk Mk.1 is not much different to its old predecessor , the AH-2 Rooivalk.

The cannons which used to be a bother on the older Rooivalk by overheating very quickly and preventing rapid and sustained fire, have now been fixed.

The chief of the South African Air Force General Carlo Gagiano said, “ What is new is the Mokopa missile , which was test-fired at the Overberg range a long time ago and we had some very good results.”

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2011-04-04-rooivalk-the-next-generation-mark-1/#.VWZ7hvlVhBd

"The investment comes despite the helicopter's builder, Denel, questioning the viability of the 23-year-old project. The rotorcraft's cockpit reflects an avionics and computer processing power system that is now two decades old.

They are divided on whether the project is worth the effort. Some sources say it amounts to throwing good money after bad and paying for a Porsche to do a CitiGolf's job."

http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5449&catid=96:defence-and-aerospace-technology


Rooivalk remains a 30 year obsolete attack helicopter.

CASE CLOSED
.
[/b]

Rooivalk ready to deploy after upgrades completed
Written by defenceWeb, Thursday, 14 March 2013

"The South African Air Force (SAAF) has its full complement of Rooivalk combat support helicopters back on inventory after Denel Aviation returned the final aircraft following more than two years of work on Block 1F upgrades."

"The company recently received a “zero defect report” from the SAAF to confirm all 11 Rooivalk helicopters have been upgraded to block 1F baseline standard."

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29859:rooivalk-ready-to-deploy-after-upgrades-completed&catid=7:Industry&Itemid=116

jln115:

Rooivalk ready to deploy after upgrades completed
Written by defenceWeb, Thursday, 14 March 2013

"The South African Air Force (SAAF) has its full complement of Rooivalk combat support helicopters back on inventory after Denel Aviation returned the final aircraft following more than two years of work on Block 1F upgrades."

"The company recently received a “zero defect report” from the SAAF to confirm all 11 Rooivalk helicopters have been upgraded to block 1F baseline standard."

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29859:rooivalk-ready-to-deploy-after-upgrades-completed&catid=7:Industry&Itemid=116

Rooivalk only got slight upgrades, not enough to make a difference. The only thing new from the original block was the mokopa missiles.

*missiles the SAAF still hasn't ordered!

patches689:


South Africa can afford it - but the order was cut back when we cut back our military at the end of apartheid.

1. African countries chose them because they come in at around half the price of a Rooivalk.

2. Rooivalk was never built for export- and please provide proof of the "5 countries" that turned it down

3. And yet you said that China would have flooded the region with them
- HAL for South Africa? Citation needed
- Nigeria is not getting the T129
- Turkey still prioritizes defence spending, South Africa does not, hence we cut back on the rooivalk

Rooivalks capabilities are well defined and you can see that it is worth $40 million - hence the Turks considered it right until the end of the deal

And again, the Rooivalk was not designed for export - it was designed for the SAAF. Thus judging it by sales is pointless

1, South-Africa cannot afford it. Orders were cut primarily because the South-African government could not afford them.

In-affordability began during the programmes development.

African countries choose the MI-28N, Apache and MI-35M because they are better assets, proven assets and with an adequate supply of spares dependability.

Price is just an add on factor imported Helicopters have over the half-french rooivalk.

The Rooivalk was rejected by the U.K, Australia, Malaysia, Turkey etc etc.

- the AH was built primarily with French help to meet both South-African needs and those of export clients.

It makes no sense to sink in 1 billion dollars in a program, spend 40 million dollars per AH and get only 12.

I said if China, Turkey or India were in the position of South-Africa, the Helicopter would have done well in Africa. This is a fact!

Nigeria is getting the T-129, the Nigerian Chief of Air Staff confirms this.

Turkey has the 6th largest Economy in Europe. It is a very important nation in the EuroAsia region. It has the Economy and the military strength to match it's importance.

The Half-French Rooivalk is an obsolete AH running on 30 years old computers nobody wants. These facts have been proven time and again.

EVarn:
Zuma has spent all the money meant for Project BIRO to dig escape tunnels all over South africa.

patches689:


And yet in reality

The hind is not a dedicated attack helicopter

And the Rooivalk is

The only thing dedicated about the Rooivalk is "French".

Henry120:


Rooivalk only got slight upgrades, not enough to make a difference. The only thing new from the original block was the mokopa missiles.

*missiles the SAAF still hasn't ordered!

Dude your sources are from 2007 and 2011 and based on the MK1, mine is from 2013 amd based on the MK1f

jln115:

Dude your sources are from 2007 and 2011 and based on the MK1, mine is from 2013 amd based on the MK1f

My sources are up to date!

jln115:

Hahah when did you whip my azz bro? I know your very delusional at times but fvck mate is getting bad!!

Anyway heres the official SAN website with the specs on our Warrior class OPVs:

As you can see they have a rang of over 3200Nm

I want to be lenient with you, I know you are not in defense industry, so I have to take it easy on you. It's not easy to know military stuff if you have not been involved with it for many years in one way or the other.

The photo-screen shot you posted is NOT Warrior class OPV, it's a T-Craft IPV, so the data is wrong since the boat is wrong.

Never mind dude, just relax and watch me and Patches play this game. I have him trapped by his own words, he enjoys making fraudulent claims and I will rub h.is face in thick muddy mud.

Don't try rescue him, it's not worth it. Patches knows next to nothing about sea warfare, so I am gonna t.orment him as usual.

Stay out of it like a gentle man, why should your nose bleed for a punch I am throwing at Patches?
.

Patchesagain:
Just a reminder about the allegations made by Nigerians about SAN fleet readyness:

There have been reports critical of the SAN’s operational readiness levels.

Of course, there is no way that all its vessels can be fully operational at the same time – naval vessels, like aircraft, have complex mainte-nance schedules involving a variety of different levels of maintenance. And crews need training – a vessel undertaking training duties is not operationally deployable.

In the past readiness, was, if anything, worse. In the 1970s, the SAN had, on paper, a fleet of three submarines, two destroyers, four frigates and three ocean patrol ships (comprising two obsolete frigates and one obsolete ocean minesweeper).

In reality, there were never more than two submarines, one destroyer and three frigates in service (and often there were only two frigates operational). Of the nine strike craft that formed the backbone of the surface force in the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s, no more than six were ever in service at the same time.

Worldwide, an operational level of 50% – that is, half of the fleet is at sea or can put to sea for operational missions in a matter of days – is regarded as good for navies. Many navies do not achieve this level. Very, very few indeed exceed it. “

The SA Navy currently has two frigates available for operational contingencies,” he reports. “One frigate is deployed as part of the anti-piracy patrols in the Mozambique Channel whilst the other is scheduled to undertake an extensive west coast patrol with visits and exercises scheduled off Namibia, Angola, Nigeria and Senegal (where it will participate in the Sea Power for Africa Symposium [November 5 to 8, 2013]). A third frigate is available for training in Simon’s Town whilst the fourth is undergoing maintenance and repair. The SAS Amatola is due to conduct a refit which should commence early in the new year. The current frigate availability rate is as per the SA Navy ‘business plan’ and exceeds the international norm for operational availability.” As for the submarines, one is undergoing a major refit which will last until the middle of next year.

It is our preference that if you wish to share this article with others you should please use the following link:

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/south-african-navy-mulls-future-requirements-as-fleet-remains-active-2013-10-04-1

wow! i was hoping to see "high endurance OPVs, corvettes and other modern patroling vessels". patroling your shores.

lets say your frigates are not available due to maintenance issues. what do you have? nothing. except that obsolete replenishment ship (drakenbourg) that will even be target practice for pirates.

did you people brag that you have a blue sea navy?

agaugust:


Nigerian OPVs are LONG-ENDURANCE deep offshore high sea OPVs, nothing with that super capability can be found in South African navy
.

Your sailors will eat mermaids and sea monsters?

agaugust:


South Africa has:

0 Long Endurance OPV
0 Stealth IPV
0 Stealth MPV
0 Stealth OPV
0 High speed ocean interceptor

Come back when you have something.

Practice target for a single frigate!




Come back when you have a real sea fighting capability both surface and sub-surface.

FighterPilot:

Give us any earlier news than that.

direct your question to the right person.... @patches

MikeCZAR:
Your sailors will eat mermaids and sea monsters?

no. they will stop over at simons town.

eat your food,

drink your best wines,

sleep with your sisters.

and continue their voyage.

is that answer proper enough for your stup1d question?

MikeCZAR:
Practice target for a single frigate!




Come back when you have a real sea fighting capability both surface and sub-surface.

your navy is not proper.

using frigates and subs to perform the work of OPV and corvette.

SA has no navy

stillchris:


your navy is not proper.

using frigates and subs to perform the work of OPV and corvette.

SA has no navy

Jeez!! you're really giving this SA guys some nab of the earth smack down.

MikeCZAR:
Your sailors will eat mermaids and sea monsters?

Lot's of food and drinks inside NNS Thunder, enough to last for many weeks.

Long Endurance OPV is bigger than a house, food plenty, drink yourself drunk, life is sweet on NNS Thunder marathon voyage around Africa.

No ship in South African navy has that long endurance capacity.

Envy will rooooast you
.

MikeCZAR:
Practice target for a single frigate!

Come back when you have a real sea fighting capability both surface and sub-surface.

When did you last see ship vs ship combat in Africa or in this world? Over 30 years ago.

The only active sea threat today worldwide is piracy, OPVs are reigning.

Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroon, Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Kenya, are all hunting for OPV to safeguard their oceans.

Frigates and submarines have become little use since 30 years ago.

Anyway, your Soweto frigates have only about a dozen anti-ship missiles, and there are anti-antiship missile decoy launchers counter measures on Nigerian navy OPVs for self defence against enemy missiles.

So, once we waste your missiles, we will turn it into a gun battle at sea, and Nigerian OPVs have superior gun firepower over the South African navy frigates.
.

agaugust:
[size=13pt]

Are you maaad ? We ask for South African navy warrior class data, you posted Reshef Sa'ar 4 missile boat developed and built for Israel Navy.

Post source of your 4,000 mile range for SAN Warrior class patrol boat !

# Patches Defeated....Posts Israeli navy boat....Fraudster !

Am gonna t.orment Patches today o !

[/size]

Same vessel

This is awesome, I dont even have to write anything and you humiliate yourself through the demonstration of your complete lack of knowladge

agaugust:


You are the one boasting about South African Warrior patrol boat having imaginary longer range than Nigerian stealth OPV
.

You are the one who cannot prove that Nigerian OPV has a longer range

agaugust:


South African navy purchased 60 year old minesweeper warships second hand from German navy
.

As reserve platforms

They were never used.

agaugust:


Nigerian OPVs are LONG-ENDURANCE deep offshore high sea OPVs, nothing with that super capability can be found in South African navy
.

Just like no warships can be found in the Nigerian Navy

agaugust:


You come again, jump into other peoples arguments, get trapped in the process.....needs lies/fraud to escape self-trap.

The Chinese Type 056 has 2,000 nm range, the Thailand Type 056 has about 3,000 nm range, same class, different specs.

Now be careful what you say, so I don't whip your azz again with horse-whip till you bleed
.

What is the range of your OPV?