Tozara:
Should we blame rich people who go about town building mansions, wearing designer dresses, displaying their rolex for all to see, driving the latest cars, when animals kill them to make away with their wealth and property? Should we advise them to live like paupers because there are predators and lazy bastards around who would be tempted to hurt and rob them? Should we blame them for flaunting their wealth? Are THEY the problem, or are the animals who chose to attack and steal from them? "Prevention is better than cure", yeah? Because poor people who have nothing to flaunt don't get robbed of the little they have? Because the most cautious of men do not fall victim of misfortune, courtesy of the beastliness and wickedness of the baboons in human skin that litter the streets?

Blaming the victim is justifying the crime and wickedness of the aggressor/predator!

Tozara:
You mean with his John Thomas exposed?! Of course that would disturb public peace as it would cause unnecessary commotion and draw attention to him. The same way a woman displaying her pussy in the public space wouldn't be acceptable.

Tozara:

I have the right to do this if I want to. It's a transaction between two people----it's of no other person's concern, not even the government.

Tozara:

The government also has NO RIGHT to interfere with this.

Tozara:

Incest is disgusting! What kind of a human being gets sexually attracted to his own sibling? I think what's responsible in most cases is that they've been living far apart for most of their childhood. But, as disgusting and strange as it is, no one has a right to make legislation against two consenting adults having sex. But in this case, it can only be permitted as long as it's for gratification, not for procreation. Inbreeding can be HARMFUL to another person - the CHILD - and deliberately orchestrating such wickedness is CRIMINAL.

Tozara:

Sex in public is unacceptable, for the same reason the man in your first question doesn't have the right to go out with his John Thomas dancing in front of him.

Tozara:

I gave that response based on the DEVIANCE FROM NATURE argument. If that's the BASIS for criminalizing it, then everything that deviates from nature should be criminalized as well.

Is that WHY it should be criminalized?

Ok.

MichaelBlake40:

He is in no way blaming the victim he is only stating possible means by which ladies can avoid being raped,the world we live in is not perfect and until then we can only continue take preventive measures.
Let's assume you live in a particular area and unfortunately armed robbery is rampant there,will u go about flaunting your money and other material properties when ever you're around?

Truckpusher:

Sagamite:


You give very good points there

but I challenged you because from your own evidence, how people dress is not necessary an indicator of rape levels.

If you know Latin America well, especially Brasil, the way the women dress there na die. Yet they have less rape on your graph than some Muslim countries like Egypt.

Women should have a right to dress in a way that pleases them.

To reduce rape, you need:

- Clear and highly punitive laws for such an offence.

- Strong policing capabilities (including investigations, cctv and management of victims)

- Strong enforcement (arresting and prosecuting)


- Low inhibitions of consensual sexual activities and behaviours (limiting sexual frustration, let people dress as they like)


- Good economy that provides opportunities for men (men with money have hope of fcking, those without don't. The more men are not economically active, the more they miss out and get sexually frustrated)

- Good supply of ashawos (reliable providers of last but professional resort

Tozara:
I would live my life like I used to and tighten my security. In such an environment, the average person who has nothing to flaunt will also be robbed.

Living modestly won't protect you from robbers and muggers.

Tozara:
I would live my life like I used to and tighten my security. In such an environment, the average person who has nothing to flaunt will also be robbed.

Living modestly won't protect you from robbers and muggers.

Daeylar:

I can agree with everything except this, his points are trash in my opinion.

I agree with the rest of your message

Daeylar:

The first 3 are gold. The 4th one is amazing
But even at last 3 (4th point inclusive) we will still see some people who will want to rape someone.

This how a suggestion on how to reduce rape is meant to look like, to think like a rapist, to try to figure out what will make them think of and carry out such thoughts of raping a victim. And how to prevent such from happening.

Thanks, you just opened my mind to that,.


Not this insistence on blaming and policing the behaviour of the victim as if the rapist himself is untouchable.

Sagamite:


Amsorry. How does it disturb your peace?

It would bring WWIII?

Wetin concern you if it draws attention to him/her. Is that not his/her business?

Well, it is banned in many countries, including some western ones.

So you were wrong when you asserted that "We criminalize things only based on their consequences for the society---whether the very act of indulging in them causes HARM to others, or interferes with the peace, tranquility, order, and progress of the state".

My apologies. I missed out "5 more" in my post. I wanted to say ".....marry 5 more".

You still think it is okay?



Well, again it is banned in most countries and nullifies your assertion.

In regards to the argument of procreation, that is weak. The odds of having a child with issues is the same odds of someone with AS blood marrying someone else with AS blood. Far better than the odds of AS/SS marriage or people with some hereditary diseases. If we are not criminalising those, what excuse/argument exist to criminalise incest apart from "It is disgusting"?

Why not?

How does it harm you or start world war 8?
It is banned because it is disgusting?

It is deviant and disgusting to see is why I am against it.

Criminalising it crystallises the attempt to integrate it in my society and putting it in my view.

Thirdly, I believe in medical reseach to cure it, not accept it.

MichaelBlake40:

You are not getting the idea ;it
lessens the chances of you getting robbed.

Daeylar:

I can agree with everything except this, his points are trash in my opinion.

I agree with the rest of your message



The first 3 are gold. The 4th one is amazing
But even at last 3 (4th point inclusive) we will still see some people who will want to rape someone.

This how a suggestion on how to reduce rape is meant to look like, to think like a rapist, to try to figure out what will make them think of and carry out such thoughts of raping a victim. And how to prevent such from happening.

Thanks, you just opened my mind to that,.


Not this insistence on blaming and policing the behaviour of the victim as if the rapist himself is untouchable.

Tozara:
True. I CONTRADICTED myself. I'm human afterall, not a robot that operates by alogrithms and follows strict Aristotelian logic.

Well then, he's permitted to dress that way.

I wasn't talking about HOW THINGS ARE, I was talking about HOW THEY SHOULD BE. I was speaking based on MY moral philosophy, so I wasn't wrong when I said that. I stated my belief, which, of course, I consider absolutely legitimate.

You can have as many partners as you want. The state has no business telling people the kind of arrangement to enter into among themselves. I want to marry 5 wives, is it your marry?

Well, I haven't done any particular research on that. If I've been peddling a medical myth, and it's as you say, then incest can't be criminalized simply on the basis that it is disgusting. A lot of things DISGUST me, but I don't see myself demanding that the government makes them illegal.


The public space is a SHARED domain. You can't just go around having sex ANYWHERE you want. The same way you have no right to start defecating or urinating around as you please.

Tozara:

But you've been here asserting that women are permitted to dress as they deem fit. So, what if I tell you that immodest dressing is disgusting to see, and I want women covered up in public, in order to crystallise the attempt to integrate indecency in my society and put it in my view? It's fücking disgusting. Women shouldn't dress like that.

What would be your response?

Tozara:

Cure? Do you believe in medical research to cure Islam, a mental disease? Or Christianity, which is cretinism? How can homosexuality be more toxic than those shiit? If you think homosexuals are sick, the fundamentalists of these cretinous religions are doubly sick.

Time2Smile:

I am not supposed to dignify you with a reply, so this is the last time I will respond to you.

Do you have to descend to name calling and ascribing labels because you don't agree with my opinion? That's what is called BIGOTRY.

I am not one of those people you can attack with educate yourself line.

I am highly educated and continue to educate myself.

Like I said, this is the only response you will get from me. Any of your rants will be subsequently ignored.

You have shown you are not cultured enough to hold a civilized conversation.

I need to catch some sleep.

Daeylar:


Am I really?
I want to burn you first

Tozara:
Yeah, I know. But with a flame that has a different feel.

Good morning. How was your night?

Daeylar:
Tozara,

You know you have to give me time to modify

Am I really?
I want to burn you first

I'm serious.
Burn you with fire. Incase it's not clear

This victim blaming madness needs to stop. It's nonsense on every level.

All 1-6 come as a package, babes, not as isolated points.

Each on their own alone would not reduce rape.

Sagamite:

I think this point has been made in different iterations on this thread. In an ideal world, no woman will have to worry about rape. But, will live in a less than ideal world where evil minds on on the prow'. So what do we do? Continue shouting rape is bad, real men don't rape? We know that already.

The point is that there are certain things than can be done to reduce the incidence of rape. There is a role for society in term of education, non-tolerance, appropriate laws and implementation of the laws. And, dare I say, there are certain things women can do to reduce the likelihood of being a victim of rape. It is about not giving the rapist an opportunity to commit the crime. In the same vein, there are cultural norms that reduces the prevalence of rape. There is less incidence of rape in Saudi Arabia due to a combination of these factors.

The truth is criminals are more likely to commit a crime if they believe they are likely to get away with it. I don't subscribe to the notion of a rapist seeing a provocatively dressed woman and then losing his senses and then raping her.

A more likely scenario is the provocative dress sexually aroused the rapist, and instead of controlling his desire like most men would, he devise a means to lure and isolate the woman to perpetrate the act.(Note here he finds a way to reduce the likelihood of getting caught, he doesn't just grab her on the street and start raping her there and then.)

Another thing is that immodest dressing sends a wrong message to his warped mind that he is probably going to get away with it.

The truth is that criminals profile their victims.And the profile of the victim of a rapist is not all women, they prefer to target certain types of women

Now, I am aware that this account for only some subsect of rapes and rapists. There are compulsive rapists which only get sexual gratification from forced sex, chiled molesters and peadophiles. No amount of modest dressing is likely to deter these sets of criminals. But, will modest dressing and common sense precautions reduce the incidence of certain type of rapes and reduce the chance of a woman being a victim of rape. YES it would and it does.

Sagamite:


I had a lot of mentioñs. I flash read his post because of this and it seems well constructed and reasoned. Though not addressing my challenge, I understood because, as he made clear, it was a chain of conversation (which I had not followed or read, so I had to be tolerant).

Feel free to highlight the trashy part, babes.

Sagamite:


Based on the highlighted, then we don't need to argue any of these further.

My logical questioning tactic was to disprove your assertion and argument that "we do not have the right to criminalize something using our own emotions and preferences as a basis".

We do! Every sane society, bar none, does. Criminalisation of actions is not only dependent on harm in any society. It is about what is the constitution we want for our gathering.

Since you have demonstrated that you also do, those arguments are now invalid.



My response would be that I disagree. You are entitled that your opinion.

Then it is up to both sides to get a majority coalition of free-ly thinking supporters to decide what law is formulated.

I think my side would end up winning in both (women dressing and homosexuality).

I wish I did!

But even if I did, they are 6.5bn of them against me. I would lose.

On the other hand, their's is not a mental disease as it is a choice. They are just brainwashed with crap!

Daeylar:
Tozara,

You know you have to give me time to modify

Am I really?
I want to burn you first

I'm serious.
Burn you with fire. Incase it's not clear

This victim blaming madness needs to stop. It's nonsense on every level.

Tozara:
It's crystal clear. I understand perfectly. There are different kinds of fire.

It's a form of TOLERANCE towards the crime.

Daeylar:


The type that will fry you and kill you

+the misogyny culture, women must always be wrong.

Sagamite:


The forum needs to be closed down and disinfected. E don pass the level wey I go just dey call people fcktards as the infestation is critical.

Sagamite:


Wetin?

Tozara:
Ah!



The government's response to the prevalence of the act is so passive it might as well be termed approval. But no one will talk about that; the responsibility must always lie with the victim.

Tozara:
Not in any SIGNIFICANT way. So, talking about the victim is not important. The BABOONS commiting these crimes, and the people encouraging them are the problem!

Daeylar:



I thought you would have been able to twist that one
LMAO


Misogynist culture.

Tozara:
Lol. I saw the flames around you dancing differently, so I decided to watch their steps instead.

Tozara:


Good morning. How was your night?

Daeylar:
Rape apologists and victim blamers are always and will forever be disgusting,

DISGUSTING!!!

Instead of you to put all this effort into stopping rape and making sure that no one rapes anyone one again, so that rape becomes a thing of the past.

You rather put effort into blaming a victim and policing her behaviour or outfit, instead of policing the behaviour of the potential rapist.

The only reason rapist think they will get away with it is because they know that there will always be that someone that will blame their victims.

Talking about rape as if it is a natural disaster that cannot be controlled, and not as if it is made man stupidity and wickedness .


The whole point of that dressing argument is to show that no matter what you wear, you can be raped, it is never the victims fault,
That is the whole point of that argument,

You dare not say that nonsense that there is something a woman can to do reduce getting raped,
The problem is the rapists, stop trying to blame the victims,

You can be old, we've heard of over 70 year olds getting raped, what did they wear?

We've heard of kids, little children, as little as some few months old getting raped, is it really the dressing?

we've heard of where a woman is covered head to toe and she still gets raped.

Why are we so fixated on trying to blame a victim? Why the desperation to blame a victim?

While at the same time maintaining a dismissive attitude towards the actual rapists?


Talking about clothes as if there is armour in the clothes, or the clothes are some kind of armour, do you know they can tell the woman to pull her clothes off herself?

Talking about there is something a woman can do to reduce her chances of getting raped but not saying shīt about what a man can do to reduce him acting on or even feeling the urge to rape and scarr his fellow human being,

Stop that bs.


a woman's dressing will not and never reduce her chances of being raped.

If that is so, Saudi Arabia should not have any record of rape of grown women at all, since the women there are always covered up.
How did their dressing modestly laws work out over there?




STOP RAPE APOLOGY AND VICTIM BLAMING.

Daeylar:


Just imagine the dismissive attitude, so because we know that we should move on and get to blaming women?
No attempt to find a solution to stop the rapist doing such,
We just move on to the most important part, blaming women.



Victim blaming 101 people
, a woman should reduce her chance of getting raped, it's on her,
Let's not push responsibility where it actually belongs on the rapist, let's put pressure on the woman,
Let's make her feel that in a way it's her fault for not doing what she should to reduce rape.
How the hell does a woman give a rapist the opportunity to commit crime?






This is trash too, because a rapist can also see a well dressed woman and because she is his spec. He tries to find a means to isolate and rape her, A rapist can monitor a woman he wants to rape for a long time, seeing her wearing different clothes while he waits for a chance to strike, and when both examples I just gave see a chance. He follows the same procedure of this rapist described above. But this poster didn't say anything about that, because it wouldn't fit into his victim blaming game.



Just tell me how this is true? How does a woman send a message to a rapist that he can get away with rape just through her clothes, what kind of mindset is that?
Victim blaming 102,



This is trash because it can be seen that all types of women can be raped.




Yes it would and yes it does, the same way it has eliminated rape of women in Saudi arabia becuase I don't know any other country where the woman is more modestly dressed.

Actually... Come to think of it...
It didn't do shít.
It didn't stop rape there, so we are still saying that?

Why profer a solution that makes it seem like dressing well is the antidote to these type of rape when we can see that it clearly doesn't work. What's the point of dressing well to reduce rape when you can still be raped even while dressing well. Why so much stress on women.


Common sense precautions my ass.



This is work sha

Sagamite:

To be frank, I don't think your analysis differs much from his argument that "women's dressing contributes to rape by bad, wrong kind of men" which I had already deduced was his line.

I think your stronger reaction to that statement compared to mine must be rooted in some polemic history between you two.

That said, you are right this one from him is super nonsense: "And the profile of the victim of a rapist is not all women, they prefer to target certain types of women".