Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael Movement to Mecca

Ibn Abbas narrated:

"... Ibrahim brought her (Hajrah) and her son, Ismail while she was
suckling him, to a place near the
Kaaba under a tree on the spot of Zam-Zam, at the highest place in
the mosque. During those days there
was nobody in Makkah, nor was there any water. So he made them sit
over there and placed near them a
leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing
some water,and set out homeward.
Ismail's mother followed him saying: "O Ibrahim! Where are you going,
leaving us
in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy,
nor is there anything (to enjoy)?"
She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her.
Then she asked him: "Has Allah
ordered you to do so?" He said: "Yes". She said: "Then He will not
neglect us." and she returned
(to her child) while Ibrahim proceeded on his way.

On reaching the Thaniya (mountain) where they could not see him,
Ibrahim faced the Kaaba, and raising
both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayer:

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley
without cultivation, by Thy Sacred
House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer:
so fill the hearts of some among
men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they
may give thanks." [Surah Ibrahim 14
:37]..." [Sahih Bukhari Book# 55, Hadith# 583]

The above hadith narrates the event of Abraham, Hajrah and Ishmael movement to Mecca. But let us consider the salient points in that narration. Abraham left Hajirah and her son, Ishmael in the bush where there were no dwellers. He was going away from them without notice and Hajrah asked why he was leaving them alone in the bush but he didn't answer nor did he look back. Then she asked whether it was Allah who commanded him not to look back and he said "yes".

The question therefore is: since he left them in the bush by Allah's command NOT TO LOOK BACK, why do Muslims claim Abraham lived in Mecca? Does going back living with them not amount to disobedience to Allah's command after he had warned him not to look back?

And again, let's examine this statement by Abraham according to the hadith:
"On reaching the Thaniya (mountain) where they could not see him,
Ibrahim faced the Kaaba, and raising
both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayer:

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley
without cultivation, by Thy Sacred
House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer:
so fill the hearts of some among
men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they
may give thanks."

When Abraham left them and they could no longer see him, he said he had left some of his offspring to dwell by Kaaba that they might establish prayers. That is to say they met the Kaaba on ground. But Muslims claim Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba, how can that be true as Abraham left them alone in the bush and Ishmael was still a suckling?

gud!

Chosen59:
Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael Movement to Mecca

Ibn Abbas narrated:

"... Ibrahim brought her (Hajrah) and her son, Ismail while she was
suckling him, to a place near the
Kaaba under a tree on the spot of Zam-Zam, at the highest place in
the mosque. During those days there
was nobody in Makkah, nor was there any water. So he made them sit
over there and placed near them a
leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing
some water,and set out homeward.
Ismail's mother followed him saying: "O Ibrahim! Where are you going,
leaving us
in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy,
nor is there anything (to enjoy)?"
She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her.
Then she asked him: "Has Allah
ordered you to do so?" He said: "Yes". She said: "Then He will not
neglect us." and she returned
(to her child) while Ibrahim proceeded on his way.

On reaching the Thaniya (mountain) where they could not see him,
Ibrahim faced the Kaaba, and raising
both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayer:

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley
without cultivation, by Thy Sacred
House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer:
so fill the hearts of some among
men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they
may give thanks." [Surah Ibrahim 14
:37]..." [Sahih Bukhari Book# 55, Hadith# 583]

The above hadith narrates the event of Abraham, Hajrah and Ishmael movement to Mecca. But let us consider the salient points in that narration. Abraham left Hajirah and her son, Ishmael in the bush where there were no dwellers. He was going away from them without notice and Hajrah asked why he was leaving them alone in the bush but he didn't answer nor did he look back. Then she asked whether it was Allah who commanded him not to look back and he said "yes".

The question therefore is: since he left them in the bush by Allah's command NOT TO LOOK BACK, why do Muslims claim Abraham lived in Mecca? Does going back living with them not amount to disobedience to Allah's command after he had warned him not to look back?

And again, let's examine this statement by Abraham according to the hadith:
"On reaching the Thaniya (mountain) where they could not see him,
Ibrahim faced the Kaaba, and raising
both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayer:

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley
without cultivation, by Thy Sacred
House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer:
so fill the hearts of some among
men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they
may give thanks."

When Abraham left them and they could no longer see him, he said he had left some of his offspring to dwell by Kaaba that they might establish prayers. That is to say they met the Kaaba on ground. But Muslims claim Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba, how can that be true as Abraham left them alone in the bush and Ishmael was still a suckling?

Does it mean no Muslim in the house is capable of answering those questions?

If there there are no answers to the questions, why should Muslims be contended with falsehood they are being fed with?

Chosen59:


Does it mean no Muslim in the house is capable of answering those questions?

If there there are no answers to the questions, why should Muslims be contended with falsehood they are being fed with?

Everybody, is being fed with falsehood! Who are u to question, what pple choose to believe?


Abraham, certainly, didnt write those stories. Who then, was d eye witness, to quote them verbatim?

ashjay001:



Everybody, is being fed with falsehood! Who are u to question, what pple choose to believe?


Abraham, certainly, didnt write those stories. Who then, was d eye witness, to quote them verbatim?

Your statement buttresses the fact that the whole story Muslims believe about Kaaba and its builders is falsehood.

Besides, God didn't tell the Israelites that Abraham left Israel and built Kaaba in Mecca. This is the reason no prophet in the Bible visited and worshipped in Kaaba. Even the Quran doesn't tell of any prophets or individuals visiting Kaaba from Israel. If it were Abraham that truly built it, would the Israelites not be going to where their father built for worship by all mankind?

Chosen59:


Your statement buttresses the fact that the whole story Muslims believe about Kaaba and its builders is falsehood.

Besides, God didn't tell the Israelites that Abraham left Israel and built Kaaba in Mecca. This is the reason no prophet in the Bible visited and worshipped in Kaaba. Even the Quran doesn't tell of any prophets or individuals visiting Kaaba from Israel. If it were Abraham that truly built it, would the Israelites not be going to where their father built for worship by all mankind?

So, it was God, that told Abraham to sacrifice his only son? Then replaced him with a ram?


Have read abt d nicea circle? Educate urself. All those ur biblical books, were selected by a group of men, from a selection of several different writings! Writings by mere mortals, like u, who claim to receive visions n hear by word of mouth, all that happened in time past!

New testament;
Have ever told ur friend a story n then heard d retelling? Was it ever presented d way u, d witness presented it? Now, imagine d earliest written sample of d story of christ, was written, over a 100 yrs after he died!

Several versions were written, n a group of men(nicea circle), sat together, to decide which was qualified to be in a single book- the holy bible! Non of d them were witnesses to d events written, n their major criteria, was d language it was written in!

Old testament
The old testament was taken into capitivity of centuries! Can any of our African brothers in d US, provide heirlooms they were captured with? Or retell d stories of their african forefathers verbatim?



Dont throw stones, what u also believe in, is trash!


I treat the bible as a great work of philosophy! Take d portion that ans ur question/s n move on!

Chosen59:
Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael Movement to Mecca

Ibn Abbas narrated:

"... Ibrahim brought her (Hajrah) and her son, Ismail while she was
suckling him, to a place near the
Kaaba under a tree on the spot of Zam-Zam, at the highest place in
the mosque. During those days there
was nobody in Makkah, nor was there any water. So he made them sit
over there and placed near them a
leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing
some water,and set out homeward.
Ismail's mother followed him saying: "O Ibrahim! Where are you going,
leaving us
in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy,
nor is there anything (to enjoy)?"
She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her.
Then she asked him: "Has Allah
ordered you to do so?" He said: "Yes". She said: "Then He will not
neglect us." and she returned
(to her child) while Ibrahim proceeded on his way.

On reaching the Thaniya (mountain) where they could not see him,
Ibrahim faced the Kaaba, and raising
both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayer:

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley
without cultivation, by Thy Sacred
House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer:
so fill the hearts of some among
men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they
may give thanks." [Surah Ibrahim 14
:37]..." [Sahih Bukhari Book# 55, Hadith# 583]

The above hadith narrates the event of Abraham, Hajrah and Ishmael movement to Mecca. But let us consider the salient points in that narration. Abraham left Hajirah and her son, Ishmael in the bush where there were no dwellers. He was going away from them without notice and Hajrah asked why he was leaving them alone in the bush but he didn't answer nor did he look back. Then she asked whether it was Allah who commanded him not to look back and he said "yes".

The question therefore is: since he left them in the bush by Allah's command NOT TO LOOK BACK, why do Muslims claim Abraham lived in Mecca? Does going back living with them not amount to disobedience to Allah's command after he had warned him not to look back?

And again, let's examine this statement by Abraham according to the hadith:
"On reaching the Thaniya (mountain) where they could not see him,
Ibrahim faced the Kaaba, and raising
both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayer:

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley
without cultivation, by Thy Sacred
House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer:
so fill the hearts of some among
men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they
may give thanks."

When Abraham left them and they could no longer see him, he said he had left some of his offspring to dwell by Kaaba that they might establish prayers. That is to say they met the Kaaba on ground. But Muslims claim Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba, how can that be true as Abraham left them alone in the bush and Ishmael was still a suckling?

the hadith is a very long one i will help you with this and all your question shall be answered in it.

Narrated Ibn ‘Abbâs [On the authority of the Prophet (See Fath Al-Bari, Vol. 7, Page 210)].

“…(Prophet) Ibrâhîm (Abraham) brought her (Hajar) and her son Ismail (Ishmael) while she used to nurse him at her breast, near the Ka‘bah under a tree on the spot of Zamzam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Makkah, nor was there any water. So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother followed him saying, “O Ibrâhîm (Abraham)! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?” She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her. Then she asked him, “Has Allâh ordered you to do so?” He said, “Yes.” She said, “Then He will not neglect us,” and returned while Ibrâhîm (Abraham) proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniyyah where they could not see him, he faced the Ka‘bah, and raising both hands invoked Allâh saying the following supplication:

‘O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House (the Ka‘bah at Makkah); in order, O our Lord, that they may perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât). So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allâh) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.’ (V.14:37)

Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother went on suckling Ismail (Ishmael) and drinking from the water (she had). When the water in the water-skin had all been used up, she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty. She started looking at him [i.e. Ismail (Ishmael)] tossing in agony; she left him, for she could not endure looking at him, and found that the mountain of As-Safâ was the nearest mountain to her on that land. She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody, but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from As-Safâ and when she reached the valley, she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble, till she crossed the valley and reached Al-Marwah mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody, but she could not see anybody. She repeated that (running between As-Safâ and Al-Marwah) seven times.”

The Prophet said, “This is the source of the tradition of the Sa‘y (the going) of people between them (i.e. As-Safâ and Al-Marwah). When she reached Al-Marwah (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, ‘O (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?’ And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zamzam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place. She started to make something like a basin around it, using her hands in this way and started filling her water-skin with water with her hands, and the water was flowing out after she had scooped some of it.”The Prophet added, “May Allâh bestow mercy on Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother! Had she let the Zamzam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zamzam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth.”The Prophet further added, “Then she drank (water) and suckled her child. The angel said to her, ‘Don’t be afraid of being neglected, for this is the House of Allâh which will be built by this boy and his father, and Allâh never neglects His people.’
“ We need Your Support,Kindly Help us Brother and sisters, Pls Click Above Image to know reason.

The House (i.e. Ka‘bah) at that time was on a high place resembling a hillock, and when torrents came, they flowed to its right and left. She lived in that way till some people from the tribe of Jurhum or a family from Jurhum passed by her and her child, as they (i.e. the Jurhum people) were coming through the way of Kadâ’. They landed in the lower part of Makkah where they saw a bird that had the habit of flying around water and not leaving it. They said, ‘This bird must be flying around water, though we know that there is no water in this valley.’ They sent one or two messengers who discovered the source of water, and returned to inform them of the water. So, they all came (towards the water).”The Prophet added, “Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother was sitting near the water. They asked her, ‘Do you allow us to stay with you?’ She replied, ‘Yes, but you will have no right to possess the water.’ They agreed to that.”The Prophet further said, “Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother was pleased with the whole situation as she used to love to enjoy the company of the people. So, they settled there, and later on they sent for their families who came and settled with them so that some families became permanent residents there. The child [i.e. Ismail (Ishmael)] grew up and learned Arabic from them and (his virtues) caused them to love and admire him as he grew up, and when he reached the age of puberty they made him marry a woman from amongst them.

After Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother had died, Ibrâhîm (Abraham) came after Ismail’s (Ishmael) marriage in order to see his family that he had left before, but he did not find Ismail (Ishmael) there. When he asked Ismail’s (Ishmael) wife about him, she replied, ‘He has gone in search of our livelihood.’ Then he asked her about their way of living and their condition, and she replied, ‘We are living in misery; we are living in hardship and destitution,’ complaining to him. He said, ‘When your husband returns, convey my salutation to him and tell him to change the threshold of the gate (of his house).’ When Ismail (Ishmael) came, he seemed to have felt something unusual, so he asked his wife, ‘Has anyone visited you?’ She replied, ‘Yes, an old man of such and such description came and asked me about you and I informed him, and he asked about our state of living, and I told him that we were living in a hardship and poverty.’ On that Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘Did he advise you anything?’ She replied, ‘Yes, he told me to convey his salutation to you and to tell you to change the threshold of your gate.’ Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘It was my father, and he has ordered me to divorce you. Go back to your family.’ So, Ismail (Ishmael) divorced her and married another woman from amongst them (i.e. Jurhum).

Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) stayed away from them for a period as long as Allâh wished and called on them again but did not find Ismail (Ishmael). So he came to Ismail’s (Ishmael) wife and asked her about Ismail (Ishmael). She said, ‘He has gone in search of our livelihood.’ Ibrâhîm (Abraham) asked her, ‘How are you getting on?’ asking her about their sustenance and living. She replied, ‘We are prosperous and well-off (i.e. we have everything in abundance).’ Then she thanked Allâh, Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, ‘What kind of food do you eat?’ She said, ‘Meat.’ He said, ‘What do you drink?’ She said, ‘Water.’ He said, ‘O Allâh! Bless their meat and water.’ “The Prophet added, “At that time they did not have grain, and if they had grain, he would have also invoked Allâh to bless it.”The Prophet added, “If somebody has only these two things as his sustenance, his health and disposition will be badly affected, unless he lives in Makkah.” The Prophet added, “Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said to Ismail’s (Ishmael) wife, ‘When your husband comes, give my regards to him and tell him that he should keep firm the threshold of his gate.’ When Ismail (Ishmael) came back, he asked his wife, ‘Did anyone call on you?’ She replied, ‘Yes, a good-looking old man came to me,’ so she praised him and added. ‘He asked about you, and I informed him, and he asked about our livelihood and I told him that we were in a good condition.’ Ismail (Ishmael) asked her, ‘Did he give you any piece of advice?’ She said, ‘Yes, he told me to give his regards to you and ordered that you should keep firm the threshold of your gate.’ On that Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘It was my father, and you are the threshold (of the gate). He has ordered me to keep you with me.’

Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) stayed away from them for a period as long as Allâh wished, and called on them afterwards. He saw Ismail (Ishmael) under a tree near Zamzam, sharpening his arrows. When he saw Ibrâhîm (Abraham), he rose up to welcome him (and they greeted each other as a father does with his son or a son does with his father). Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, ‘O Ismail (Ishmael)! Allâh has given me an order.’ Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘Do what your Lord has ordered you to do.’ Ibrâhîm (Abraham) asked, ‘Will you help me?’ Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘I will help you.’ Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, ‘Allâh has ordered me to build a house here,’ pointing to a hillock higher than the land surrounding it.’”The Prophet added, “Then they raised the foundations of the House (i.e. the Ka‘bah). Ismail (Ishmael) brought the stones and Ibrâhîm (Abraham) was building; and when the walls became high, Ismail (Ishmael) brought this stone and put it for Ibrâhîm (Abraham) who stood over it and carried on building, while Ismail (Ishmael) was handing him the stones, and both of them were saying,

‘O our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily, You are the All-Hearer the All-Knower.’” (V.2:127).

The Prophet added, “Then both of them went on building and going round the Ka‘bah saying ‘O our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.’” (V.2:127)

[Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.4, Hadith No.583].

ashjay001:



So, it was God, that told Abraham to sacrifice his only son? Then replaced him with a ram?


Have read abt d nicea circle? Educate urself. All those ur biblical books, were selected by a group of men, from a selection of several different writings! Writings by mere mortals, like u, who claim to receive visions n hear by word of mouth, all that happened in time past!

New testament;
Have ever told ur friend a story n then heard d retelling? Was it ever presented d way u, d witness presented it? Now, imagine d earliest written sample of d story of christ, was written, over a 100 yrs after he died!

Several versions were written, n a group of men(nicea circle), sat together, to decide which was qualified to be in a single book- the holy bible! Non of d them were witnesses to d events written, n their major criteria, was d language it was written in!

Old testament
The old testament was taken into capitivity of centuries! Can any of our African brothers in d US, provide heirlooms they were captured with? Or retell d stories of their african forefathers verbatim?



Dont throw stones, what u also believe in, is trash!


I treat the bible as a great work of philosophy! Take d portion that ans ur question/s n move on!

Irrelevant and diversionary.

Chosen59:


Irrelevant and diversionary.

Same way ur post was irrelevant n misplaced! The bible is a book written by men, for men! Thinking u av a monopoly on God is just plain........

smoy:
the hadith is a very long one i will help you with this and all your question shall be answered in it.

Narrated Ibn ‘Abbâs [On the authority of the Prophet (See Fath Al-Bari, Vol. 7, Page 210)].

“…(Prophet) Ibrâhîm (Abraham) brought her (Hajar) and her son Ismail (Ishmael) while she used to nurse him at her breast, near the Ka‘bah under a tree on the spot of Zamzam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Makkah, nor was there any water. So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother followed him saying, “O Ibrâhîm (Abraham)! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?” She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her. Then she asked him, “Has Allâh ordered you to do so?” He said, “Yes.” She said, “Then He will not neglect us,” and returned while Ibrâhîm (Abraham) proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniyyah where they could not see him, he faced the Ka‘bah, and raising both hands invoked Allâh saying the following supplication:

‘O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House (the Ka‘bah at Makkah); in order, O our Lord, that they may perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât). So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allâh) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.’ (V.14:37)

Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother went on suckling Ismail (Ishmael) and drinking from the water (she had). When the water in the water-skin had all been used up, she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty. She started looking at him [i.e. Ismail (Ishmael)] tossing in agony; she left him, for she could not endure looking at him, and found that the mountain of As-Safâ was the nearest mountain to her on that land. She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody, but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from As-Safâ and when she reached the valley, she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble, till she crossed the valley and reached Al-Marwah mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody, but she could not see anybody. She repeated that (running between As-Safâ and Al-Marwah) seven times.”

The Prophet said, “This is the source of the tradition of the Sa‘y (the going) of people between them (i.e. As-Safâ and Al-Marwah). When she reached Al-Marwah (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, ‘O (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?’ And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zamzam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place. She started to make something like a basin around it, using her hands in this way and started filling her water-skin with water with her hands, and the water was flowing out after she had scooped some of it.”The Prophet added, “May Allâh bestow mercy on Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother! Had she let the Zamzam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zamzam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth.”The Prophet further added, “Then she drank (water) and suckled her child. The angel said to her, ‘Don’t be afraid of being neglected, for this is the House of Allâh which will be built by this boy and his father, and Allâh never neglects His people.’
“ We need Your Support,Kindly Help us Brother and sisters, Pls Click Above Image to know reason.

The House (i.e. Ka‘bah) at that time was on a high place resembling a hillock, and when torrents came, they flowed to its right and left. She lived in that way till some people from the tribe of Jurhum or a family from Jurhum passed by her and her child, as they (i.e. the Jurhum people) were coming through the way of Kadâ’. They landed in the lower part of Makkah where they saw a bird that had the habit of flying around water and not leaving it. They said, ‘This bird must be flying around water, though we know that there is no water in this valley.’ They sent one or two messengers who discovered the source of water, and returned to inform them of the water. So, they all came (towards the water).”The Prophet added, “Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother was sitting near the water. They asked her, ‘Do you allow us to stay with you?’ She replied, ‘Yes, but you will have no right to possess the water.’ They agreed to that.”The Prophet further said, “Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother was pleased with the whole situation as she used to love to enjoy the company of the people. So, they settled there, and later on they sent for their families who came and settled with them so that some families became permanent residents there. The child [i.e. Ismail (Ishmael)] grew up and learned Arabic from them and (his virtues) caused them to love and admire him as he grew up, and when he reached the age of puberty they made him marry a woman from amongst them.

After Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother had died, Ibrâhîm (Abraham) came after Ismail’s (Ishmael) marriage in order to see his family that he had left before, but he did not find Ismail (Ishmael) there. When he asked Ismail’s (Ishmael) wife about him, she replied, ‘He has gone in search of our livelihood.’ Then he asked her about their way of living and their condition, and she replied, ‘We are living in misery; we are living in hardship and destitution,’ complaining to him. He said, ‘When your husband returns, convey my salutation to him and tell him to change the threshold of the gate (of his house).’ When Ismail (Ishmael) came, he seemed to have felt something unusual, so he asked his wife, ‘Has anyone visited you?’ She replied, ‘Yes, an old man of such and such description came and asked me about you and I informed him, and he asked about our state of living, and I told him that we were living in a hardship and poverty.’ On that Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘Did he advise you anything?’ She replied, ‘Yes, he told me to convey his salutation to you and to tell you to change the threshold of your gate.’ Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘It was my father, and he has ordered me to divorce you. Go back to your family.’ So, Ismail (Ishmael) divorced her and married another woman from amongst them (i.e. Jurhum).

Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) stayed away from them for a period as long as Allâh wished and called on them again but did not find Ismail (Ishmael). So he came to Ismail’s (Ishmael) wife and asked her about Ismail (Ishmael). She said, ‘He has gone in search of our livelihood.’ Ibrâhîm (Abraham) asked her, ‘How are you getting on?’ asking her about their sustenance and living. She replied, ‘We are prosperous and well-off (i.e. we have everything in abundance).’ Then she thanked Allâh?? Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, ‘What kind of food do you eat?’ She said, ‘Meat.’ He said, ‘What do you drink?’ She said, ‘Water.’ He said, ‘O Allâh! Bless their meat and water.’ “The Prophet added, “At that time they did not have grain, and if they had grain, he would have also invoked Allâh to bless it.”The Prophet added, “If somebody has only these two things as his sustenance, his health and disposition will be badly affected, unless he lives in Makkah.” The Prophet added, “Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said to Ismail’s (Ishmael) wife, ‘When your husband comes, give my regards to him and tell him that he should keep firm the threshold of his gate.’ When Ismail (Ishmael) came back, he asked his wife, ‘Did anyone call on you?’ She replied, ‘Yes, a good-looking old man came to me,’ so she praised him and added. ‘He asked about you, and I informed him, and he asked about our livelihood and I told him that we were in a good condition.’ Ismail (Ishmael) asked her, ‘Did he give you any piece of advice?’ She said, ‘Yes, he told me to give his regards to you and ordered that you should keep firm the threshold of your gate.’ On that Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘It was my father, and you are the threshold (of the gate). He has ordered me to keep you with me.’

Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) stayed away from them for a period as long as Allâh wished, and called on them afterwards. He saw Ismail (Ishmael) under a tree near Zamzam, sharpening his arrows. When he saw Ibrâhîm (Abraham), he rose up to welcome him (and they greeted each other as a father does with his son or a son does with his father). Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, ‘O Ismail (Ishmael)! Allâh has given me an order.’ Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘Do what your Lord has ordered you to do.’ Ibrâhîm (Abraham) asked, ‘Will you help me?’ Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘I will help you.’ Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, ‘Allâh has ordered me to build a house here,’ pointing to a hillock higher than the land surrounding it.’”The Prophet added, “Then they raised the foundations of the House (i.e. the Ka‘bah). Ismail (Ishmael) brought the stones and Ibrâhîm (Abraham) was building; and when the walls became high, Ismail (Ishmael) brought this stone and put it for Ibrâhîm (Abraham) who stood over it and carried on building, while Ismail (Ishmael) was handing him the stones, and both of them were saying,

‘O our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily, You are the All-Hearer the All-Knower.’” (V.2:127).

The Prophet added, “Then both of them went on building and going round the Ka‘bah saying ‘O our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.’” (V.2:127)

[Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.4, Hadith No.583].

You said the hadith I quoted is too long, right? Is this yours not much much longer than the one I quoted?

Anyway, the questions remained unanswered.

From your own version of the hadith I quote:

“…(Prophet) Ibrâhîm (Abraham) brought her (Hajar) and her son Ismail (Ishmael) while she used to nurse him at her breast, near the Ka‘bah under a tree on the spot of Zamzam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Makkah, nor was there any water. So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother followed him saying, “O Ibrâhîm (Abraham)! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?” She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her. Then she asked him, “Has Allâh ordered you to do so?” He said, “Yes.” She said, “Then He will not neglect us,” and returned while Ibrâhîm (Abraham) proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniyyah where they could not see him, he faced the Ka‘bah, and raising both hands invoked Allâh saying the following supplication:

‘O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House (the Ka‘bah at Makkah); in order, O our Lord, that they may perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât). So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allâh) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.’ (V.14:37)

Looking at the bolded, you will discover the Kaaba was already in existence when Abraham, Hahrah and the small Ishmael got there, yet you say it was Abraham and Ishmael who built it. How could they have built what they met on ground?

The question is who built the Kaaba before Abraham got there? We heard from history that even Ishmael learnt Arabic from the original dwellers of Mecca. That shows there were people leaving there before the arrival of Abraham and Ishmael, who built the Kaaba for their idols.

ashjay001:


Same way ur post was irrelevant n misplaced! The bible is a book written by men, for men! Thinking u av a monopoly on God is just plain........

Where did you see Bible in the OP?

We are talking about Islam you are talking about the Bible. If you lack defence on the subject, keep quiet. It is not a must for you to talk. Thank you.

Chosen59:


Where did you see Bible in the OP?

We are talking about Islam you are talking about the Bible. If you lack defence on the subject, keep quiet. It is not a must for you to talk. Thank you.

U cant question Ibrahim in d quran, without referring to his presence in d bible, since, they appear to be d same person!


And, if u doubt any of d myths abt him, u doubt all of them! An intellectual, doesnt do bit parts, u always take d whole into consideration.

Chosen59:


You said the hadith I quoted is too long, right? Is this yours not much much longer than the one I quoted?

Anyway, the questions remained unanswered.

From your own version of the hadith I quote:

“…(Prophet) Ibrâhîm (Abraham) brought her (Hajar) and her son Ismail (Ishmael) while she used to nurse him at her breast, near the Ka‘bah under a tree on the spot of Zamzam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Makkah, nor was there any water. So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother followed him saying, “O Ibrâhîm (Abraham)! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?” She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her. Then she asked him, “Has Allâh ordered you to do so?” He said, “Yes.” She said, “Then He will not neglect us,” and returned while Ibrâhîm (Abraham) proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniyyah where they could not see him, he faced the Ka‘bah, and raising both hands invoked Allâh saying the following supplication:

‘O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House (the Ka‘bah at Makkah); in order, O our Lord, that they may perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât). So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allâh) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.’ (V.14:37)

Looking at the bolded, you will discover the Kaaba was already in existence when Abraham, Hahrah and the small Ishmael got there, yet you say it was Abraham and Ishmael who built it. How could they have built what they met on ground?

The question is who built the Kaaba before Abraham got there? We heard from history that even Ishmael learnt Arabic from the original dwellers of Mecca. That shows there were people leaving there before the arrival of Abraham and Ishmael, who built the Kaaba for their idols.

i did not said yours was too long Wat i said was the one you quoted was part of the hadith

on your questions; yes if you read the hadith again you will find out that the place was already raised above the level of the normal ground level in that area so to show Abraham the location were the house shall be, no structure was there but are mark of the foundation naturally present. Abraham and Ismail now built on that mark of foundation.

no water was present in that area so it was inhabitable for human, but the dwellers later came and meet Ismail and His mother after the spring of Zam ZAm in that place and recognize them as the owner of that Vally today called Macca.

smoy:
i did not said yours was too long Wat i said was the one you quoted was part of the hadith

on your questions; yes if you read the hadith again you will find out that the place was already raised above the level of the normal ground level in that area so to show Abraham the location were the house shall be, no structure was there but are mark of the foundation naturally present. Abraham and Ismail now built on that mark of foundation.

no water was present in that area so it was inhabitable for human, but the dwellers later came and meet Ismail and His mother after the spring of Zam ZAm in that place and recognize them as the owner of that Vally today called Macca.

There is nothing in that hadith to prove that the place was already raised above the level of the normal ground level in that area. What we are made to understand in the hadith is that Kaaba was already there as a place of worship, which Abraham met on ground.

Chosen59:


There is nothing in that hadith to prove that the place was already raised above the level of the normal ground level in that area. What we are made to understand in the hadith is that Kaaba was already there as a place of worship, which Abraham met on ground.

re read it again now take much of the time as it required. Ibrahim built on the foundation he meet on ground, no structure what so ever.

smoy:
re read it again now take much of the time as it required. Ibrahim built on the foundation he meet on ground, no structure what so ever.

If Abraham built Kaaba, why didn't he tell his other children about it? I mean, why is Kaaba associated with Hajrah and Ishmael alone?

Why didn't God tell the Israelites that they should go to Kaaba in Mecca?

Why didn't any prophets in Israel venerate Kabba or even talk about it?

Chosen59:


If Abraham built Kaaba, why didn't he tell his other children about it? I mean, why is Kaaba associated with Hajrah and Ishmael alone?

Why didn't God tell the Israelites that they should go to Kaaba in Mecca?

Why didn't any prophets in Israel venerate Kabba or even talk about it?

The Israelite wander in the desert for 40 years and you think that they were not in that Valley for that period? Ismail and Muslim were seen as treat in the bible and for that effort to eliminate any thing to do with Islam is almost taken off in the bible but still yet traces can still be found.

bible alone can not be the standard for historical record since is been corrupted, it need to be corroborated with other facts.

Chosen59:
Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael Movement to Mecca

Ibn Abbas narrated:

"... Ibrahim brought her (Hajrah) and her son, Ismail while she was
suckling him, to a place near the
Kaaba under a tree on the spot of Zam-Zam, at the highest place in
the mosque. During those days there
was nobody in Makkah, nor was there any water. So he made them sit
over there and placed near them a
leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing
some water,and set out homeward.
Ismail's mother followed him saying: "O Ibrahim! Where are you going,
leaving us
in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy,
nor is there anything (to enjoy)?"
She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her.
Then she asked him: "Has Allah
ordered you to do so?" He said: "Yes". She said: "Then He will not
neglect us." and she returned
(to her child) while Ibrahim proceeded on his way.

On reaching the Thaniya (mountain) where they could not see him,
Ibrahim faced the Kaaba, and raising
both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayer:

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley
without cultivation, by Thy Sacred
House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer:
so fill the hearts of some among
men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they
may give thanks." [Surah Ibrahim 14
:37]..." [Sahih Bukhari Book# 55, Hadith# 583]

The above hadith narrates the event of Abraham, Hajrah and Ishmael movement to Mecca. But let us consider the salient points in that narration. Abraham left Hajirah and her son, Ishmael in the bush where there were no dwellers. He was going away from them without notice and Hajrah asked why he was leaving them alone in the bush but he didn't answer nor did he look back. Then she asked whether it was Allah who commanded him not to look back and he said "yes".

The question therefore is: since he left them in the bush by Allah's command NOT TO LOOK BACK, why do Muslims claim Abraham lived in Mecca? Does going back living with them not amount to disobedience to Allah's command after he had warned him not to look back?

And again, let's examine this statement by Abraham according to the hadith:
"On reaching the Thaniya (mountain) where they could not see him,
Ibrahim faced the Kaaba, and raising
both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayer:

"O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley
without cultivation, by Thy Sacred
House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer:
so fill the hearts of some among
men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they
may give thanks."

When Abraham left them and they could no longer see him, he said he had left some of his offspring to dwell by Kaaba that they might establish prayers. That is to say they met the Kaaba on ground. But Muslims claim Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba, how can that be true as Abraham left them alone in the bush and Ishmael was still a suckling?

Fabricated story. Where was Sarah when this happened?

Chosen59:


Does it mean no Muslim in the house is capable of answering those questions?

If there there are no answers to the questions, why should Muslims be contended with falsehood they are being fed with?

Satan wants to claim every godly man.

Hagar was a surrogate to Sarah, she was never married to Abraham and never left Canaanland Arabia.

Satan as his agents.

smoy:
the hadith is a very long one i will help you with this and all your question shall be answered in it.

Narrated Ibn ‘Abbâs [On the authority of the Prophet (See Fath Al-Bari, Vol. 7, Page 210)].

“…(Prophet) Ibrâhîm (Abraham) brought her (Hajar) and her son Ismail (Ishmael) while she used to nurse him at her breast, near the Ka‘bah under a tree on the spot of Zamzam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Makkah, nor was there any water. So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother followed him saying, “O Ibrâhîm (Abraham)! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?” She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her. Then she asked him, “Has Allâh ordered you to do so?” He said, “Yes.” She said, “Then He will not neglect us,” and returned while Ibrâhîm (Abraham) proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniyyah where they could not see him, he faced the Ka‘bah, and raising both hands invoked Allâh saying the following supplication:

‘O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House (the Ka‘bah at Makkah); in order, O our Lord, that they may perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât). So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allâh) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.’ (V.14:37)

Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother went on suckling Ismail (Ishmael) and drinking from the water (she had). When the water in the water-skin had all been used up, she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty. She started looking at him [i.e. Ismail (Ishmael)] tossing in agony; she left him, for she could not endure looking at him, and found that the mountain of As-Safâ was the nearest mountain to her on that land. She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody, but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from As-Safâ and when she reached the valley, she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble, till she crossed the valley and reached Al-Marwah mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody, but she could not see anybody. She repeated that (running between As-Safâ and Al-Marwah) seven times.”

The Prophet said, “This is the source of the tradition of the Sa‘y (the going) of people between them (i.e. As-Safâ and Al-Marwah). When she reached Al-Marwah (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, ‘O (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?’ And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zamzam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place. She started to make something like a basin around it, using her hands in this way and started filling her water-skin with water with her hands, and the water was flowing out after she had scooped some of it.”The Prophet added, “May Allâh bestow mercy on Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother! Had she let the Zamzam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zamzam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth.”The Prophet further added, “Then she drank (water) and suckled her child. The angel said to her, ‘Don’t be afraid of being neglected, for this is the House of Allâh which will be built by this boy and his father, and Allâh never neglects His people.’
“ We need Your Support,Kindly Help us Brother and sisters, Pls Click Above Image to know reason.

The House (i.e. Ka‘bah) at that time was on a high place resembling a hillock, and when torrents came, they flowed to its right and left. She lived in that way till some people from the tribe of Jurhum or a family from Jurhum passed by her and her child, as they (i.e. the Jurhum people) were coming through the way of Kadâ’. They landed in the lower part of Makkah where they saw a bird that had the habit of flying around water and not leaving it. They said, ‘This bird must be flying around water, though we know that there is no water in this valley.’ They sent one or two messengers who discovered the source of water, and returned to inform them of the water. So, they all came (towards the water).”The Prophet added, “Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother was sitting near the water. They asked her, ‘Do you allow us to stay with you?’ She replied, ‘Yes, but you will have no right to possess the water.’ They agreed to that.”The Prophet further said, “Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother was pleased with the whole situation as she used to love to enjoy the company of the people. So, they settled there, and later on they sent for their families who came and settled with them so that some families became permanent residents there. The child [i.e. Ismail (Ishmael)] grew up and learned Arabic from them and (his virtues) caused them to love and admire him as he grew up, and when he reached the age of puberty they made him marry a woman from amongst them.

After Ismail’s (Ishmael) mother had died, Ibrâhîm (Abraham) came after Ismail’s (Ishmael) marriage in order to see his family that he had left before, but he did not find Ismail (Ishmael) there. When he asked Ismail’s (Ishmael) wife about him, she replied, ‘He has gone in search of our livelihood.’ Then he asked her about their way of living and their condition, and she replied, ‘We are living in misery; we are living in hardship and destitution,’ complaining to him. He said, ‘When your husband returns, convey my salutation to him and tell him to change the threshold of the gate (of his house).’ When Ismail (Ishmael) came, he seemed to have felt something unusual, so he asked his wife, ‘Has anyone visited you?’ She replied, ‘Yes, an old man of such and such description came and asked me about you and I informed him, and he asked about our state of living, and I told him that we were living in a hardship and poverty.’ On that Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘Did he advise you anything?’ She replied, ‘Yes, he told me to convey his salutation to you and to tell you to change the threshold of your gate.’ Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘It was my father, and he has ordered me to divorce you. Go back to your family.’ So, Ismail (Ishmael) divorced her and married another woman from amongst them (i.e. Jurhum).

Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) stayed away from them for a period as long as Allâh wished and called on them again but did not find Ismail (Ishmael). So he came to Ismail’s (Ishmael) wife and asked her about Ismail (Ishmael). She said, ‘He has gone in search of our livelihood.’ Ibrâhîm (Abraham) asked her, ‘How are you getting on?’ asking her about their sustenance and living. She replied, ‘We are prosperous and well-off (i.e. we have everything in abundance).’ Then she thanked Allâh, Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, ‘What kind of food do you eat?’ She said, ‘Meat.’ He said, ‘What do you drink?’ She said, ‘Water.’ He said, ‘O Allâh! Bless their meat and water.’ “The Prophet added, “At that time they did not have grain, and if they had grain, he would have also invoked Allâh to bless it.”The Prophet added, “If somebody has only these two things as his sustenance, his health and disposition will be badly affected, unless he lives in Makkah.” The Prophet added, “Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said to Ismail’s (Ishmael) wife, ‘When your husband comes, give my regards to him and tell him that he should keep firm the threshold of his gate.’ When Ismail (Ishmael) came back, he asked his wife, ‘Did anyone call on you?’ She replied, ‘Yes, a good-looking old man came to me,’ so she praised him and added. ‘He asked about you, and I informed him, and he asked about our livelihood and I told him that we were in a good condition.’ Ismail (Ishmael) asked her, ‘Did he give you any piece of advice?’ She said, ‘Yes, he told me to give his regards to you and ordered that you should keep firm the threshold of your gate.’ On that Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘It was my father, and you are the threshold (of the gate). He has ordered me to keep you with me.’

Then Ibrâhîm (Abraham) stayed away from them for a period as long as Allâh wished, and called on them afterwards. He saw Ismail (Ishmael) under a tree near Zamzam, sharpening his arrows. When he saw Ibrâhîm (Abraham), he rose up to welcome him (and they greeted each other as a father does with his son or a son does with his father). Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, ‘O Ismail (Ishmael)! Allâh has given me an order.’ Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘Do what your Lord has ordered you to do.’ Ibrâhîm (Abraham) asked, ‘Will you help me?’ Ismail (Ishmael) said, ‘I will help you.’ Ibrâhîm (Abraham) said, ‘Allâh has ordered me to build a house here,’ pointing to a hillock higher than the land surrounding it.’”The Prophet added, “Then they raised the foundations of the House (i.e. the Ka‘bah). Ismail (Ishmael) brought the stones and Ibrâhîm (Abraham) was building; and when the walls became high, Ismail (Ishmael) brought this stone and put it for Ibrâhîm (Abraham) who stood over it and carried on building, while Ismail (Ishmael) was handing him the stones, and both of them were saying,

‘O our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily, You are the All-Hearer the All-Knower.’” (V.2:127).

The Prophet added, “Then both of them went on building and going round the Ka‘bah saying ‘O our Lord! Accept (this service) from us. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.’” (V.2:127)

[Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol.4, Hadith No.583].

Why not just give specific answers to the questions instead this copy and paste you obviously didn't read.

ashjay001:



U cant question Ibrahim in d quran, without referring to his presence in d bible, since, they appear to be d same person!


And, if u doubt any of d myths abt him, u doubt all of them! An intellectual, doesnt do bit parts, u always take d whole into consideration.

Do you really believe that Abraham is the same with Ibrahim? Then answer the question the Op asked

smoy:
i did not said yours was too long Wat i said was the one you quoted was part of the hadith

on your questions; yes if you read the hadith again you will find out that the place was already raised above the level of the normal ground level in that area so to show Abraham the location were the house shall be, no structure was there but are mark of the foundation naturally present. Abraham and Ismail now built on that mark of foundation.

no water was present in that area so it was inhabitable for human, but the dwellers later came and meet Ismail and His mother after the spring of Zam ZAm in that place and recognize them as the owner of that Vally today called Macca.

You believe without thinking? Your Hadith said Ismael was still sucking breast, how was he able to build a house?

smoy:
The Israelite wander in the desert for 40 years and you think that they were not in that Valley for that period? Ismail and Muslim were seen as treat in the bible and for that effort to eliminate any thing to do with Islam is almost taken off in the bible but still yet traces can still be found.

bible alone can not be the standard for historical record since is been corrupted, it need to be corroborated with other facts.

Which Historical record outside of Islam, can you give which associates Abraham with kaaba?

godisgood200:

You believe without thinking? Your Hadith said Ismael was still sucking breast, how was he able to build a house?

don't be too lazy, read.

godisgood200:

Do you really believe that Abraham is the same with Ibrahim? Then answer the question the Op asked

If u still think Abra n Ibro are different, den u n I cant av a meeting of minds. Read all my previous posts, n if u end up not getting my view, take a hike!

godisgood200:

Satan wants to claim every godly man.

Hagar was a surrogate to Sarah, she was never married to Abraham and never left Canaanland Arabia.

Satan as his agents.

Yes, you are right.

Hagar wasn't Abraham's wife. That was the reason God supported Sarah in driving her and her son out of Abraham's family.

Then, why would Abraham follow them to wherever after God had said they should be driven away? Would Abraham disobey God and left Sarah to follow the cast out? Never.

Kaaba was built by pagans to house their 360 idols.

Chosen59:


Yes, you are right.

Hagar wasn't Abraham's wife. That was the reason God supported Sarah in driving her and her son out of Abraham's family.

Then, why would Abraham follow them to wherever after God had said they should be driven away? Would Abraham disobey God and left Sarah to follow the cast out? Never.

Kaaba was built by pagans to house their 360 idols.

It's funny how the Muslims can't see the ridiculousness of their claims.

ashjay001:



If u still think Abra n Ibro are different, den u n I cant av a meeting of minds. Read all my previous posts, n if u end up not getting my view, take a hike!

Lolzzzz. Guy, you have already hiked to liarland if you believe Abraham built the kaaba.

smoy:
don't be too lazy, read.

Just lookat. You who believes everything the imam tells you. I can comfortably teach you Islam. Without copy and past you can't frame up a simple correct sentense, yet you are calling me lazy.

See Muslim who is told not to read so that he won't discover the truth is telling me to.read.

godisgood200:

Lolzzzz. Guy, you have already hiked to liarland if you believe Abraham built the kaaba.

Nice comeback


Now can u do d hiking!

ashjay001:



Nice comeback


Now can u do d hiking!

After you.