Following the model of PastorAIO whom I appreciate a lot, I have decided to create a personal thread to share my views and some intimate experiences which I hope would help me and others gain insight. I would have wished to do it in the diary section, but feedback is also important to me, so I think the religion section may be better.

In the beginning there was an end. Life is a cycle and a zero sum game. Whatever the choices we make, whatever the path we thread, all lead to the same end, and that end is nothing. In a sense, whatever goal we earnestly pursue is useless, all are but illusions, a shadow we may say.

What then remains of our constant struggles and efforts? I think experience. Experience is ultimately what matters.

A very promising thread indeed.

A while ago i asked myself the simple question, "Why am i here?" and something came to Me, a very simple answer ....You're here to have experiences.

Just bought this plot of land

Hmmm....deep....EXPERIENCE for what purpose exactly?....d questions are unending really....
*SPACE BOOKED*

Eternal return (also known as "eternal recurrence" is a concept that the universe and all existence and energy has been recurring, and will continue to recur, in a self-similar form an infinite number of times across infinite time or space. The concept is found in Indian philosophy[citation needed] and in ancient Egypt[citation needed] and was subsequently taken up by the Pythagoreans and Stoics.[citation needed] With the decline of antiquity and the spread of Christianity, the concept fell into disuse in the Western world, with the exception of Friedrich Nietzsche, who connected the thought to many of his other concepts, including amor fati.

Wikipedia

Nice one..

LoJ:
Following the model of PastorAIO whom I appreciate a lot, I have decided to create a personal thread to share my views and some intimate experiences which I hope would help me and others gain insight. I would have wished to do it in the diary section, but feedback is also important to me, so I think the religion section may be better.

In the beginning there was an end. Life is a cycle and a zero sum game. Whatever the choices we make, whatever the path we thread, all lead to the same end, and that end is nothing. In a sense, whatever goal we earnestly pursue is useless, all are but illusions, a shadow we may say.

What then remains of our constant struggles and efforts? I think experience. Experience is ultimately what matters.

Hi LoJ, Very interesting. Existence is experience and there is unity in experience. When we talk of the Word (Logos) the raison d'etre in its truest sense in which all things are one, it then obtains that opposites are necessary for life, but that they are unified in a system of balanced exchanges. I believe that our perception of life should be viewed as an ongoing process governed only by the law of change. Life in itself is a yearning for life, it is neither intrinsically good nor bad, our experiences are the fire that burnishes the river of gold that is our soul.

It is one of the precepts of Buddhism that all of life is an illusion, I find that a very fatalistic outlook, for me it is more apt to state that “Man’s aspirations” and “desires” can be illusory in nature. Our aspirations (or lack thereof) define us, therefore we say that “men are unaware of what they do when they are awake and are equally forgetful of what they do when they are asleep”.

LoJ:
Following the model of PastorAIO whom I appreciate a lot, I have decided to create a personal thread to share my views and some intimate experiences which I hope would help me and others gain insight. I would have wished to do it in the diary section, but feedback is also important to me, so I think the religion section may be better.

In the beginning there was an end. Life is a cycle and a zero sum game. Whatever the choices we make, whatever the path we thread, all lead to the same end, and that end is nothing. In a sense, whatever goal we earnestly pursue is useless, all are but illusions, a shadow we may say.

What then remains of our constant struggles and efforts? I think experience. Experience is ultimately what matters.

The belief that life is a cycle, is embedded in many cultures, but there is also hope for life after death, albeit in the spirit world.
If that end is nothing as you posit, What is the purpose of the experience?

I believe that there is an end, and at that end, everything will be revealed, Man will come to clear realization and know himself for who he really is.

hopefulLandlord:
Just bought this plot of land

Just in Case...

jchioma:




The belief that life is a cycle, is embedded in many cultures, but there is also hope for life after death, albeit in the spirit world.
If that end is nothing as you posit, What is the purpose of the experience?

I believe that there is an end, and at that end, everything will be revealed, Man will come to clear realization and know himself for who he really is.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [by God].

Sarassin:
Hi LoJ, Very interesting.
Existence is experience and there is unity in experience.
When we talk of the Word (Logos) the raison d'etre in its truest sense in which all things are one,
it then obtains that opposites are necessary for life, but that they are unified in a system of balanced exchanges.
I believe that our perception of life should be viewed as an ongoing process governed only by the law of change.

Life in itself is a yearning for life, it is neither intrinsically good nor bad,
our experiences are the fire that burnishes the river of gold that is our soul.

Life in itself, now, is a yearning for the original life.

The yearning for the original life, began after Man's eating of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil
The yearn of Man for the original life and to live forever, was stopped by preventing Man access to the tree of life.

It is true, life, in the beginning, did NOT, start either intrinsically good or bad
The original life, was just life, life that was neither intrinsically good nor evil

Sarassin:
It is one of the precepts of Buddhism that all of life is an illusion,
I find that a very fatalistic outlook, for me it is more apt to state that “Man’s aspirations” and “desires” can be illusory in nature.
Our aspirations (or lack thereof) define us, therefore we say that “men are unaware of what they do when they are awake and are equally forgetful of what they do when they are asleep”.

I strongly believe that there was a problem situation
and the necessity being the mother of invention, is the start of the solution, to solving that problem situation

Now, please indulge me, Sarassin and reply with a brutal and honest answer
or "I cant possibly tell you/I dont know, I wouldn't know" answer
Here's the question:
Knowing yourself, knowing who you are, knowing who you be, knowing what you are
if you, for sake of a discussion, at the beginning, you were to be the Omnipotent and Omniscient
and having gone through all the permutations of eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil
will you, still go ahead with the idea of creating Man?

Sarassin, I believe and trust you to spot and recognise a merism and/or synecdoche when you see one

PS: Where are my manners. I'll like LoJ, too, to give a honest response to the question

MuttleyLaff:
Life in itself, now, is a yearning for the original life.
The yearning for the original life, began after Man's eating of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil
The yearn of Man for the original life and to live forever, was stopped by preventing Man access to the tree of life.

My premise is that life yearns for life, with no other pre-qualification other than to perpetuate itself.

My view also is that man derogated from the “Tree of life”, but it remains there for those who know how to seek it.

MuttleyLaff:
Life in itself, now, is a yearning for the original life.
Now, please indulge me, Sarassin and reply with a brutal and honest answer
or "I cant possibly tell you/I dont know, I wouldn't know" answer

Here's the question:
Knowing yourself, knowing who you are, knowing who you be, knowing what you are
if you, for sake of a discussion, at the beginning, you were to be the Omnipotent and Omniscient
and having gone through all the permutations of eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil
will you, still go ahead with the idea of creating Man?

Alright MuttleyLaff, I will play..

Yes, I would proceed with the creation of Man, but being the sporting "Omniscient" being that I am and given the all-encompassing Love that I have for my creation I would take the awful and terrible decision to deny "oneself" fore-knowledge of the acts of my creation within pre-determined parameters.

Life's game is not that easy to decipher, however, for now I settle with the belief that life is birthed in death, illusions throw up reality, darkness reveals light and the subtle is hidden in gross.

And that nothing else explains the paradox of life better than experience.

Sarassin:
My premise is that life yearns for life, with no other pre-qualification other than to perpetuate itself

Have you lived the moment of feeling how a fowl/cow/goat/ram struggles to live life during and after holding it by the neck and snuff life out of it with a knife?

The gyrating and sporadic kicking is testimony that life yearns for life.
Even though, it's being sucked of life, it's fighting back for existence of life and to continue living

Sarassin:
My view also is that man derogated from the “Tree of life”, but it remains there for those who know how to seek it

Well, if you want to put that way, then I suppose, I can live with that way of thinking

Sarassin:
Alright MuttleyLaff, I will play..

Yes, I would proceed with the creation of Man, but being the sporting "Omniscient" being that I am and given the all-encompassing Love that I have for my creation I would take the awful and terrible decision to deny "oneself" fore-knowledge of the acts of my creation within pre-determined parameters.

You're kicking the play too quickly far away in the field there, probably over shot.
Give me an hour or two to resume back here, I've got this thing, that right now, needs my attention.

Sarassin:


Yes, I would proceed with the creation of Man, but being the sporting "Omniscient" being that I am and given the all-encompassing Love that I have for my creation I would take the awful and terrible decision to deny "oneself" fore-knowledge of the acts of my creation within pre-determined parameters.

This makes life itself a highly complex science experiment

LotusFan:
This makes life itself a highly complex science experiment

Life is not a highly complex science experiment at all.
Life, quintessentially, is an experience
Life is what you make it and/or make of it, no one can make it for you‎

MuttleyLaff:
Life is not a highly complex science experiment at all.
Life, quintessentially, is an experience
Life is what you make it and/or make of it, no one can make it for you‎

I think you misunderstood Me.

I meant an "experiment" of the creator, not us humans.

LotusFan:
I think you misunderstood Me.

I meant an "experiment" of the creator, not us humans.

I didn't in the remotest misunderstand you.

I believe strongly the Creator is solving a problem

Humans are NOT happenstance, hence the earlier necessity is the mother of invention.

The Creator IS NOT experimenting with humans
Humans are part of the solution package
Two for the price of one.

LoJ:
Following the model of PastorAIO whom I appreciate a lot, I have decided to create a personal thread to share my views and some intimate experiences which I hope would help me and others gain insight. I would have wished to do it in the diary section, but feedback is also important to me, so I think the religion section may be better.

In the beginning there was an end. Life is a cycle and a zero sum game. Whatever the choices we make, whatever the path we thread, all lead to the same end, and that end is nothing. In a sense, whatever goal we earnestly pursue is useless, all are but illusions, a shadow we may say.

What then remains of our constant struggles and efforts? I think experience. Experience is ultimately what matters.

Interesting thread full of brilliant minds!

LoJ:
Following the model of PastorAIO whom I appreciate a lot, I have decided to create a personal thread to share my views and some intimate experiences which I hope would help me and others gain insight. I would have wished to do it in the diary section, but feedback is also important to me, so I think the religion section may be better.

In the beginning there was an end. Life is a cycle and a zero sum game. Whatever the choices we make, whatever the path we thread, all lead to the same end, and that end is nothing. In a sense, whatever goal we earnestly pursue is useless, all are but illusions, a shadow we may say.

What then remains of our constant struggles and efforts? I think experience. Experience is ultimately what matters.

Was there a struggle from the beginning?

MuttleyLaff:
I didn't in the remotest misunderstand you.

I believe strongly the Creator is solving a problem

Humans are NOT happenstance, hence the earlier necessity is the mother of invention.

The Creator IS NOT experimenting with humans
Humans are part of the solution package
Two for the price of one.

Solving a problem? Just like Einstein with E=mc2 ??

Ecclesiastes 1:1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

1:2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

1:3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

1:6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

1:8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

1:12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.

1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.

1:14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

LotusFan:
Solving a problem? Just like Einstein with E=mc2 ??

Nah, a lot far simpler than that.

The Creator let's Einstein be the nerd

MuttleyLaff:
Have you lived the moment of feeling how a fowl/cow/goat/ram struggles to live life during and after holding it by the neck and snuff life out of it with a knife? The gyrating and sporadic kicking is testimony that life yearns for life.
Even though, it's being sucked of life, it's fighting back for existence of life and to continue living

Yah, I think I can safely say I have been that goat several times over, but then nature instils in us it's very own survival mechanism, which is of course...fear.

MuttleyLaff:
I didn't in the remotest misunderstand you.

I believe strongly the Creator is solving a problem. Humans are NOT happenstance, hence the earlier necessity is the mother of invention.

The Creator IS NOT experimenting with humans. Humans are part of the solution package. Two for the price of one.

And then we have ourselves a problem. We say God, the Divine is perfection a priori and that the creation of a perfect creator cannot be anything but perfect for the purposes of the creator. This of course is the very basis of Tantra.

Sarassin:
Yah, I think I can safely say I have been that goat several times over, but then nature instils in us it's very own survival mechanism, which is of course...fear

No, wasn't talking about that, fear wasn't even showing on my radar.
I WAS (<<note edit Sarassin) talking of those body jerking movement moments, even after death.
It's, as if, it's a struggle, to not, let go of life
Yearning for life, in a kind of way.

Sarassin:
And then we have ourselves a problem. We say God, the Divine is perfection a priori and that the creation of a perfect creator cannot be anything but perfect for the purposes of the creator. This of course is the very basis of Tantra

Ah ha, but everything else, individually, was called good, except for Man.
Each stage of creation, God looked at it, and said, it was good
God must have known something, for staying short of saying the creation, Man, was good.
Man, only, as part of the whole creation, was seen to be good

Disorder, soon replaced the goodness, after Man's fall from grace

MuttleyLaff:
No, wasn't talking about that, fear wasn't even showing on my radar.
I wasn't talking of those body jerking movement moments, even after death.
It's, as if, it's a struggle, to not, let go of life
Yearning for life, in a kind of way.

Oh I see.

Hello everyone. I have been delighted to read all the comments. Let me address those I can.

PastorAIO:


Wikipedia

Thank you very much for this. It was very apt.

LotusFan:
A very promising thread indeed.

A while ago i asked myself the simple question, "Why am i here?" and something came to Me, a very simple answer ....You're here to have experiences.

Very interesting indeed. I hope to be able to expand on this later. Thank you

Sarassin:
It is one of the precepts of Buddhism that all of life is an illusion, I find that a very fatalistic outlook, for me it is more apt to state that “Man’s aspirations” and “desires” can be illusory in nature. Our aspirations (or lack thereof) define us, therefore we say that “men are unaware of what they do when they are awake and are equally forgetful of what they do when they are asleep”.

Hello dear one,

I have not had the privilege to study Buddhism in depth, although I am quite admirative of work and teachings of Shakyamuni. I don't know what is meant by life being an illusion in Buddhism, but in my own sense I do not ascribe a pejorative connotation to it.

What I mean is, nothing that changes can be ultimately real. Illusion here does not imply that it is not worth it/useless, it simply signifies that it is not permanent, it is constantly changing. So at the end of the day you end up only with a "souvenir", a remembrance, never the thing you were running after.

If you wish to become a president and work hard at it, even if you spend 34 years as president like mugabe, you will eventually find your own grace mugabe that will lead you to resign and at the end of it, you will have but a remembrance.

Life is therefore an illusion, an agreed projection of an inner state. At the end, the experience, the joy pains excitement and the lessons from it are what we are left with.

jchioma:
The belief that life is a cycle, is embedded in many cultures, but there is also hope for life after death, albeit in the spirit world.
If that end is nothing as you posit, What is the purpose of the experience?

I believe that there is an end, and at that end, everything will be revealed, Man will come to clear realization and know himself for who he really is.

I do not claim to have final truths. I only give opinions and my personal perception.

There is no evidence of any end in the multiverses. Instead a continuous cycle, where from a singularity, 2 primary and contradictory forces emerge then, the 2 forces cancel each other back into a singularity. The process in itself is universal and unchangeable. But our experience of it enriches us.

MuttleyLaff:
Knowing yourself, knowing who you are, knowing who you be, knowing what you are
if you, for sake of a discussion, at the beginning, you were to be the Omnipotent and Omniscient
and having gone through all the permutations of eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil
will you, still go ahead with the idea of creating Man?

Hello friend,

I can't answer the question because, I dont believe in the literal interpretation of the story of genesis. It justs does not make rational sense. The story is either esoteric pure fantasia.

MuttleyLaff:
Life is not a highly complex science experiment at all.
Life, quintessentially, is an experience
Life is what you make it and/or make of it, no one can make it for you‎

contrast of complexity, at the bolded.
please educate my Ignorance: why do bad things happen to good people, and why do the seemingly extreme "lefts" seem to bend the laws and walk freely?

A little sailing full of hope crashes...
Yet the boy falling from the sky seems to have a sweet sailing.

LoJ:
Hello friend,

I can't answer the question

My dear, other friend than Sarassin, but you unwittingly have already answered
I never had you down as the kind that spoilsports anyway

Remember I wrote:
Reply with a brutal and honest answer
or "I cant possibly tell you/I dont know, I wouldn't know" answer

so your "I can't answer the question" response is OK
You played your part well
Your answer was adequate, your response was able enough for me to see
Extending the question to you, was out of courtesy, you being the OP

LoJ:
because, I dont believe in the literal interpretation of the story of genesis.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, playing up the field, OK?
I have no recollection of asking about belief in a literal interpretation of the story of genesis.

LoJ:
justs does not make rational sense

One day, it will, make rational sense

LoJ:
The story is either esoteric pure fantasia.

What is the alphabet between V and X called?
How do you pronounce this alphabet, that's after V and before X?
Why aren't you pronouncing it literally, why aren't you pronouncing the way it appears or looks?
Why not saying double-V, instead of double-U?
Just because one doesnt know the rational sense behind pronouncing W, the way it is pronounced
doesnt mean the story of alphabet is esoteric pure fantasia

One doesn't try to understand everything
because sometimes, things are not meant to be understood but rather to just be accepted
Besides, if one can't make sense of certain things, that is perfectly OK
because the minute one gets to know, then one will have to deal with the truth of the sense

There is nothing esoteric about W or any pure fantasia behind pronouncing W
The rationale behind pronouncing W, as Sarassin, wisely and likely will say, "... remains there for those who know how to seek it"