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The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland

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Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by usba: 4:34pm On Jan 03, 2018
tintingz:
Are you with the Gods that you know each Gods will defend and cause conflict with each other? Do you see any God defending their people?(i am not talking about the ancient myths in the books)

Lol grin grin that is the point since the gods are not fighting one another in the defense of their people it means there can only be One God, please outside the ancient books and religions as we know them, are we to follow your made up fantasies of God? We are talking real life here not your made up fantasies which follows your mood


Let agree these Gods defend their people, how does this affect the premise that they all created the universe?

Common sense will tell us that this will lead to strife of immense proportions and even the earth will feel this, because we do not witness any strife then it logically follows there is only one God. No? gringringrin


Sorry, Yahweh also authorize that Christianity is the way of life!

So, who are the Prophets of Allah sent to Africa, Vikings, Eskimos, China, Red indians, America, Europe etc, why is that they differ in beliefs?

People corrupt religions over time.


@bold, i dont get?

Most religion live in a vacuum, i.e. Christians still believe any religion outside their came from the devil, we Muslims believe the religion possibly could have been from God but eventually got corrupted. Hence only Islam adequately captures what really is.


So a God that create women with feminine figure also want the women to apologize for being feminine, or a God that created homosexuals and want them to be killed for no reason? or a God that ordered men to beat their disobedient wives? is that the representation of a true God?

Still wrong representation of God

I dont understand this part. undecided
Did i said i dont know the morality your God lives by? So your God has morality, interesting, your God is getting morality from somewhere. grin

Lol grin grin you crack me and my cheeter up
You cannot define what is right or wrong to God, you cannot say God does exist and at the same time want to define him based on your short sightedness or whatever moral or immoral code you come up with. You can't deny for instance gravity and then at the same demand why does gravity pull down the clouds or moon. I clearly know you will still not get it.

5 Likes

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 5:37pm On Jan 03, 2018
usba:


Lol grin grin that is the point since the gods are not fighting one another in the defense of their people it means there can only be One God, please outside the ancient books and religions as we know them, are we to follow your made up fantasies of God? We are talking real life here not your made up fantasies which follows your mood
What point? The point there is that you assumed all Gods will be conflicting each other by defending thier people which in reality no God is defeding any people e.g Muslims nations on attack, Muslim terrorists kiling christains, you also assume that there can be only one God which infact there are thousands of Gods worshipped by people, I wonder what I'm fantasizing here? Did I tell you I believe in any of these imaginary entities?


Common sense will tell us that this will lead to strife of immense proportions and even the earth will feel this, because we do not witness any strife then it logically follows there is only one God. No? gringringrin
This is very irrational and fallcious, please tell me how any of these Gods is intervening by defending thier people? Even if there's one God how's is he/she intervening?
Because we can't see 1000 flying invisible rabbits dropping poop from the sky means there's only one rabbit in the sky?

Is this how your common sense work, is this what you call logic? Ok let's see how your common sense work by answering the question above.


People corrupt religions over time.
So who are the people corrupting religion and what makes Islam not among the corrupted religion?


Most religion live in a vacuum, i.e. Christians still believe any religion outside their came from the devil, we Muslims believe the religion possibly could have been from God but eventually got corrupted. Hence only Islam adequately captures what really is.
Lol, this is most silly excuse I've reading in this thread. grin

So who or what source make people to corrupt religion and if Allah knew this will happen why then he wants to throw them inside hell? Is he impotent to prevent religion from corrupting?

And where is the evidence for Islam being the first religion? I want to know the link.


Still wrong representation of God
You mean the Quran represented Allah wrongly?


Lol grin grin you crack me and my cheater up
You cannot define what is right or wrong to God,
Then why should I care about God if I find his right and wrong unreasonable? Or why does a God need to define what's right and wrong to humans?


you cannot say God does exist and at the same time want to define him based on your short sightedness or whatever moral or immoral code you come up with. You can't deny for instance gravity and then at the same demand why does gravity pull down the clouds or moon. I clearly know you will still not get it.
So because I don't believe in gravity(for example) means I can't debate or argue about gravity? Whose law and logic is that? Where do you see that in any debate?

I'm ready to accept Allah back if you can give proof for his existence. Thank you.
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by Demmzy15(m): 6:36pm On Jan 03, 2018
**splashes ewedu on tintingz** grin grin grin

2 Likes

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by usba: 6:48pm On Jan 03, 2018
tintingz:
What point? The point there is that you assumed all Gods will be conflicting each other by defending thier people which in reality no God is defeding any people e.g Muslims nations on attack, Muslim terrorists kiling christains, you also assume that there can be only one God which infact there are thousands of Gods worshipped by people, I wonder what I'm fantasizing here? Did I tell you I believe in any of these imaginary entities?

You are confused sir, you will recall in previous posts you said you were not refering to established religions but your own contrived example, which I said, no no, we don't need you inadequate fantasies since we already have real life example. Your confusion is so funny you said there are thousands of god's and in the same breath say they are imaginary, you see why I said you can have it both ways, you arguing under the assumptions there is God and at the same time confusing yourself there is no God you can have it both ways, it leads to intellectual barrenness grin


This is very irrational and fallcious, please tell me how any of these Gods is intervening by defending thier people? Even if there's one God how's is he/she intervening?
Because we can't see 1000 flying invisible rabbits dropping poop from the sky means there's only one rabbit in the sky?

You still don't get the absence of many Gods means there is no strife in the heavens the presence of many leads to strife. It seems you have difficulty in grasping basic explanation. The one God intervenes in a way that is balance and suits his wisdom.


Is this how your common sense work, is this what you call logic? Ok let's see how your common sense work by answering the question above.

Your questions shows your duplicitous intellect that wants to have its cake and eat, you want to argue under the assumption there is God and at the same there is no God, such sense is not even sold in bend down select boutique. grin grin

So who are the people corrupting religion and what makes Islam not among the corrupted religion?

It occurs over a long period of time under the misguidance of the devil.

Lol, this is most silly excuse I've reading in this thread. grin


So who or what source make people to corrupt religion and if Allah knew this will happen why then he wants to throw them inside hell? Is he impotent to prevent religion from corrupting?

And where is the evidence for Islam being the first religion? I want to know the link.

grin grin grin your desperation to impress me at all costs makes you throw things into the mix, where did I say Islam is the first religion? Once again unless you cease your duplicitous nature, no one can help you, if you argue under the assumption there is God then you must accept each and every other statements about him that follows, only then can you then counter whatever arguement that is made.


You mean the Quran represented Allah wrongly?

Sorry did your name suddenly turn to Qur'an grin grin grin grin

Then why should I care about God if I find his right and wrong unreasonable? Or why does a God need to define what's right and wrong to humans?

Then why should anybody care what you think?
When you are ready to hold a real debate free of your duplicity and hot and cold dilemma let me know, but as long as you looking for sounding board to deceive yourself with I assure you I and my cheeter will just keep cracking up to your feeble attempts at stand-up comedy.


So because I don't believe in gravity(for example) means I can't debate or argue about gravity? Whose law and logic is that? Where do you see that in any debate?

I'm ready to accept Allah back if you can give proof for his existence. Thank you.

You are not ready for anything, you are only ready to vent your confusion and duplicitous nature. When you decide to argue about gravity under the assumption THAT GRAVITY EXIST then you have to follow through with such assumption not one leg in when the assumption seems to support your duplicity and one leg out when it goes against you.

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Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by Mushrik: 7:47pm On Jan 03, 2018
tintingz:
Are you with the Gods that you know each Gods will defend and cause conflict with each other? Do you see any God defending their people?(i am not talking about the ancient myths in the books).

Let agree these Gods defend their people, how does this affect the premise that they all created the universe?



Sorry, Yahweh also authorize that Christianity is the way of life!

So, who are the Prophets of Allah sent to Africa, Vikings, Eskimos, China, Red indians, America, Europe etc, why is that they differ in beliefs?

@bold, i dont get?


So a God that created women with feminine figure also want the women to apologize for being feminine, or a God that created homosexuals and want them to be killed for no reason? or a God that ordered men to beat their disobedient wives? is that the representation of a true God?

I dont understand this part. undecided
Did i said i dont know the morality your God lives by? Who is the creator of immorality? So your God has morality, interesting, your God is getting morality from somewhere? grin

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 8:45pm On Jan 03, 2018
usba:


You are confused sir, you will recall in previous posts you said you were not refering to established religions but your own contrived example, which I said, no no, we don't need you inadequate fantasies since we already have real life example. Your confusion is so funny you said there are thousands of god's and in the same breath say they are imaginary, you see why I said you can have it both ways, you arguing under the assumptions there is God and at the same time confusing yourself there is no God you can have it both ways, it leads to intellectual barrenness grin
Now I know the level of your reasoning that you result in red herring.

# Point to me where I'm not referring to established religion?

# There's no confusion when I said there are thousands of gods, it's a fact there are thousands of gods worshipped by people(note: I never said I believe there are thousand Gods existing nor one God), except you want to tell me people are not worshiping these Gods.

# Thank goodness you admit I "assumed" there are thousands of God that created the universe, you're the one claiming Allah is the only one true God and no other Gods, you will have to proof Allah is the only true God and other Gods don't exist.

And do I believe any of these Gods exist? Here's what I said

This is very irrational and fallcious, please tell me how any of these Gods are intervening by defending thier people? Even if there's one God how's is he/she intervening?
https://www.nairaland.com/4259316/priest-converted-islam-tells-reason/1#63862837

When you want to argue with a kid, you come down to his/her level, when a kid said santa Claus exist and unicorn, fairies don't exist, you will have to ask why he believe santa claus exist and unicorn, fairies don't exist.

now answer the question above and stop the red herring!


You still don't get the absence of many Gods means there is no strife in the heavens the presence of many leads to strife. It seems you have difficulty in grasping basic explanation. The one God intervenes in a way that is balance and suits his wisdom.
Have you been to heaven that you concluded the absence of many gods means there's no strife in the heaven and presence of many Gods leads to strife? What evidence do you have to back that up?

Please tell me how the one God is intervening and stop the empty talk, well ofcos the one God work in mysterious ways. grin

God Santa Claus intervene in a way that is balance and suit his wisdom, see how empty you sound. grin


Your questions shows your duplicitous intellect that wants to have its cake and eat, you want to argue under the assumption there is God and at the same there is no God, such sense is not even sold in bend down select boutique. grin grin
Wrong, my argument here is for you to proof Allah is the one true God and other Gods are false!

Proof these Gods don't exist and Allah is the only true God that created the universe(you were the one that made the claim) then we will now go to the arguement of the existence of your one true God.


It occurs over a long period of time under the misguidance of the devil.
Sorry but you said Islam don't believe other religion came as a result of Satan? See your confusion. Now the question is who created the devil?


grin grin grin your desperation to impress me at all costs makes you throw things into the mix, where did I say Islam is the first religion? Once again unless you cease your duplicitous nature, no one can help you, if you argue under the assumption there is God then you must accept each and every other statements about him that follows, only then can you then counter whatever arguement that is made.
Ok, Islam is not the first religion. Agreed!

* The Quran lied when it said Allah sent prophets to every nation.


Sorry did your name suddenly turn to Qur'an grin grin grin grin
Lol, here's what i said,

So a God that create women with feminine figure also want the women to apologize for being feminine, or a God that created homosexuals and want them to be killed for no reason? or a God that ordered men to beat their disobedient wives? is that the representation of a true God?
https://www.nairaland.com/4259316/priest-converted-islam-tells-reason#63860543

And you said it's the wrong representation of God, you forgot that what I said above can be found in the Quran! grin


Then why should anybody care what you think?
When you are ready to hold a real debate free of your duplicity and hot and cold dilemma let me know, but as long as you looking for sounding board to deceive yourself with I assure you I and my cheeter will just keep cracking up to your feeble attempts at stand-up comedy.
If you don't care about what I think, there are people that care about what I think and I'm not forcing anyone to care about what I think!

So my argument still stands, proof to me other Gods are false and Allah is the one true God?


You are not ready for anything, you are only ready to vent your confusion and duplicitous nature. When you decide to argue about gravity under the assumption THAT GRAVITY EXIST then you have to follow through with such assumption not one leg in when the assumption seems to support your duplicity and one leg out when it goes against you.
I'm not the one that claim Allah is one true God that created the universe and other God's are false, all I ask is proof your claims, now that I follow the assumption of many God creating the universe for the sake of argument you turned it that I'm confused, I wonder who's confused.

Kindly go and learn how to debate rationally and stop the red herring.
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 9:03pm On Jan 03, 2018
Demmzy15:
**splashes ewedu on tintingz** grin grin grin
People like you are the problem of Nigeria, so all you can do is waste ewedu on me despite the recession? You don't consider giving ewedu to the needy! Ok kontinu cheesy
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by Demmzy15(m): 11:44pm On Jan 03, 2018
tintingz:
People like you are the problem of Nigeria, so all you can do is waste ewedu on me despite the recession? You don't consider giving ewedu to the needy! Ok kontinu cheesy
I would have modified it to spoilt ewedu grin

1 Like

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by sino(m): 10:15am On Jan 04, 2018
tintingz:
I was expecting a rational response but you disappointed me Mr sino.

# Man created God, deities and religion due to ignorance, they don't understand what's arround them, so they created a god to fill those gaps (god of the gaps), now that science is revealing and explaining many phenomenon around us, god is diminishing. E.g People thought Zeus, Sango, Thor were the source of thunder and lighting especially when they are angry, now science has been able to tell how thunder works.

Secondly, religion was created for political reason to control the people with fear of wrath of gods, punishment etc. The reason each religion laws are traditional and cultural base.

It is only common sense to admit that there is a creator of everything, zeus or sango are not said to be the creator of everything,and according to the reports available, they had limitations and really weren't different from mortal men, except for some "powers". The advancement in knowledge which you have pointed to, actually give credence to the fact that this one true God cannot be like the creation, thus, those worshiping Zeus, Sango et. al., were/are indeed mistaken (again, worshiping the creation).

If you created a very sophisticated device, wouldn't you give users a manual to help them navigate and use effectively and optimally?! Everything that exist has a rule/principle guiding it, just like the thunder you mentioned, it doesn't occur without it following its principle. Because you have a choice, you are given the ability to reason and make your own choices doesn't make you above these principles. Look through any natural phenomenon, it has guidelines, methods, processes that are systematic, much like it is programmed. Of course, we humans are also part of these programme, hence our actions and inaction have effects on these natural phenomena...

What I am driving at is that, this world, without laws would result into chaos, even with laws, humans still cause a lot of chaos! And that is why institutions, governments, communities, clubs, societies employ the use of the law. Are you as an atheist above the law?! If you can succumb to laws of the land, why are you finding divine laws difficult to accept?! And punishment is part of the law, there are consequences for everything you do, the depletion of the ozone layer and global warming are consequences of our actions and inactions! That is what punishment and reward is all about!

tintingz:

# How do you know we were created? Is it because a book said so or what justification ground? If we were created then why are we created and why are we punished, why is life unfair to humanity?

Not only because a book said so, but because it is a fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for this universe (including me and you) to have come from nothing! And our purpose is to acknowledge that creator. Once we do this, then it wouldn't be difficult to understand and accept the things that happen on this earth, because at the end of the day, what can you do to stop some (if not all) of these things?! Aging and eventually death should be the most unfair thing to happen to man, but what can man do to stop this?! NOTHING! Life is fair to some and not so for others, these differences also indicates that something beyond us is in control.

tintingz:

All religion has dogmas, Islam is a copied religion and culture, how each religion worship thier Gods is the truth and way to them, how they practice is the truth to them, you can't say because your book said other religion are fake/false means they are false because that's exactly what they said/saying about your religion (religion superiority), and like I understand about some religion, they don't worship creation instead they channel thier worship through these gods/heros.

Of course, you are also on the right path with your atheism, isn't it the reason you cannot stay away in trying too hard to deny God and keep ranting about it?!

Everyone has the right to believe whatever he wants, even if it is the flying spaghetti monster. Like I said, once you believe that there is a creator, then your purpose is to worship that creator, once that is established, then this creator would definitely want you to worship him directly and not direct your attention to something or someone else in the name of channeling or a means to reach God, because this God alone is supreme, and nothing is like unto him. And yes there are fake religions and fake Gods, and one of the easiest way to know this is when you are worshiping something or someone created (e.g, the flying spaghetti monster grin).

tintingz:

Because the Abrahamic religion has more followers or whatever you mean by being successive in that context doesn't make your religion the right one.

I believe my post was quite clear, these religion were successive, it has nothing to do with the number of followers, it has to do with the theme of these religions and how they were introduced in history...

tintingz:

This is blasphemy, Flying Spaghetti monster is the only one true God!

You didn't mention which God isn't? Is it Allah? Don't tell me that's the true God! A God that was recreated by a man in the desert cave? grin


So which God is the one true God?

God is the same, people may have different names to call him by, but flying spaghetti monster isn't one of them wink

tintingz:

Why not tell me who created the author or where those the author came from? Shebi something must cause something? undecided

Since you agree that the book in your hands is an evidence that there is an author, where the author comes from isn't relevant, since this knowledge cannot disprove that the author exists!

tintingz:

So color, shape, characteristics is your evidence of your God, why not tell me why your God didn't give humans wings or how natural disasters is perfect for a designer? grin

Lol, I wonder how your strong evidence is rationalize with my above statement. grin

If you only know what it takes for you to see, the pathway that leads to vision, you would understand that this happening by randomness is completely impossible! Your DNA that codes you is so specialized and unique that claiming it was by nothing would make you look silly. Watch the video below where Richard Dawkins contradicts himself trying to explain the origin of the universe...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v34QjYPuiEA

Apparently, it is either nothing is something (mysterious) or nothing is nothing and can never bring forth something...

This brings me back to the author & book theory, if you cannot deny the existence of an author of a book which is in your possession, then why should you deny that there is an author of the DNA which has about 3 billion base pairs (these are macromolecules which contains the total information about you), and within this DNA, is a repair mechanism that reduces the error rate during replication from one in ten million bases to one in a billion i.e almost impossible for an error to occur!

tintingz:

This is empty talk.

So Allah is not man-made creation?
Yahweh is the true universal God according to the Christians and Jews books, how you are confidence that Allah is the true God according to the Quran is what I'm yet to get from you.

Proof to me Allah is the one true God, and the funniest thing is , if you take the Quran and Muslims away, I wonder how Allah will exist.

I thought you were once a Muslim, the above shouldn't have come from you. Arab Christians call God Allah! Even the Arab pagans called God Allah. I would repeat again, God is the same (but may be called different names due to language and culture), and there is none like this one true God!

You may correct me if I am mistaken, reading through your posts, it seems you are trying to win converts to atheism or you just want to feel fly and show off that you are now an atheist or you are basically looking for an avenue to justify your atheism?!

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Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 1:54pm On Jan 04, 2018
sino:


It is only common sense to admit that there is a creator of everything, zeus or sango are not said to be the creator of everything,and according to the reports available, they had limitations and really weren't different from mortal men, except for some "powers". The advancement in knowledge which you have pointed to, actually give credence to the fact that this one true God cannot be like the creation, thus, those worshiping Zeus, Sango et. al., were/are indeed mistaken (again, worshiping the creation).
Zeus is the supreme deity in the Greek religion, Sango might be limited but he derive his power from Eledumare! It doesn't affect the premise that these Gods are source of thunder and immortal, I will like to know how Allah is different from human-like, is it the God that sit on a throne with hands and legs or a God that shows anger and reason like that of humans, please tell me how Allah is different from other Gods?

And for your info, Allah was originally a supreme deity a local god of the pantheon worship by the Quraysh tribe until Muhammad made Allah the main God.


If you created a very sophisticated device, wouldn't you give users a manual to help them navigate and use effectively and optimally?! Everything that exist has a rule/principle guiding it, just like the thunder you mentioned, it doesn't occur without it following its principle. Because you have a choice, you are given the ability to reason and make your own choices doesn't make you above these principles. Look through any natural phenomenon, it has guidelines, methods, processes that are systematic, much like it is programmed. Of course, we humans are also part of these programme, hence our actions and inaction have effects on these natural phenomena...
Interesting! You stated a designer that's limited.

The reason Devices comes with manual is because the device is not perfect and the designer himself is not perfect which requires a manual to know how it works and maintain it.

# A perfect device from a perfect designer should be able to invent a device without no manual or guidelines.

# For a perfect designer to invent and give manual for his device shows he reasoned, now the question is where did he reason from?

^^^The above statement shows a limited designer who depends on something.

You invented a mobile phone that has no silent option, it's always ring out then suddenly along the years you decide to give laws that mobile phones shouldn't ring out that phones speakers should be blocked with something to prevent it from ringing out. Now use this for Muslim women on Niqab, Hijab.

For a designer to reason this way shows he's limited!

Because natural phenomenon has process doesn't means it's perfect, natural disasters are perfect to you? Humans inventing things to travel is perfect to you? Why can the perfect designer give Humans wings to fly?


What I am driving at is that, this world, without laws would result into chaos, even with laws, humans still cause a lot of chaos! And that is why institutions, governments, communities, clubs, societies employ the use of the law. Are you as an atheist above the law?! If you can succumb to laws of the land, why are you finding divine laws difficult to accept?! And punishment is part of the law, there are consequences for everything you do, the depletion of the ozone layer and global warming are consequences of our actions and inactions! That is what punishment and reward is all about!
If your God is potent and perfect, he shouldn't allow humans to create laws, he shouldn't himself join human trend in creating laws. Lol grin

A potent God should know what's best for Humans not modifications after creation.

Yes there consequences for some of how actions, the consequences can be negative or prositive, it can beneficial or not beneficial, because I do a negative things doesn't mean the reward must be negative.


Not only because a book said so, but because it is a fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for this universe (including me and you) to have come from nothing! And our purpose is to acknowledge that creator. Once we do this, then it wouldn't be difficult to understand and accept the things that happen on this earth, because at the end of the day, what can you do to stop some (if not all) of these things?! Aging and eventually death should be the most unfair thing to happen to man, but what can man do to stop this?! NOTHING! Life is fair to some and not so for others, these differences also indicates that something beyond us is in control.
If it's IMPOSSIBLE for everything to have come from NOTHING, then God must come from SOMETHING.
You can't argue that everything must come from something and exclude God. what kind of logic is that?

A > B > C > Z..... > A, the cycle continues, for A to exist back, Z must cause it.

Death is part of nature, it doesn't need anyone controlling it, it's irrational to think some higher entity is controlling live and death when reality we're not seeing any intervention.


Of course, you are also on the right path with your atheism, isn't it the reason you cannot stay away in trying too hard to deny God and keep ranting about it?!
I don't believe in personal gods, trust me if there are evidence to proof the existence of Allah I will accept Allah, I'm open for truth with fact and evidence.

Someone believe unicorn exist and as well can't proof it existence, is it my fault to reject unicorn?


Everyone has the right to believe whatever he wants, even if it is the flying spaghetti monster. Like I said, once you believe that there is a creator, then your purpose is to worship that creator, once that is established, then this creator would definitely want you to worship him directly and not direct your attention to something or someone else in the name of channeling or a means to reach God, because this God alone is supreme, and nothing is like unto him. And yes there are fake religions and fake Gods, and one of the easiest way to know this is when you are worshiping something or someone created (e.g, the flying spaghetti monster grin).
Like I said, empty talk empty talk.

Proof Allah Is the creator and other Gods including flying spaghetti monster are fake and false.

The last time I checked, an arab man in the desert cave wrote about Allah in a book, it's like writting fictional stories in my room and come out saying it's the true.



I believe my post was quite clear, these religion were successive, it has nothing to do with the number of followers, it has to do with the theme of these religions and how they were introduced in history...
What about non Abrahamic religion?


God is the same, people may have different names to call him by, but flying spaghetti monster isn't one of them wink
Another blasphemy, flying spaghetti monster is the true God! Allah is false god.

Anyways, Maybe you should tell how the character of Allah and Olorun are the same and I want to know which God represent the true God?


Since you agree that the book in your hands is an evidence that there is an author, where the author comes from isn't relevant, since this knowledge cannot disprove that the author exists!
What crap logic is this. grin

The author is relevant to be known, where those this author came from? Abi when you buy a novel, you don't see about the author and the picture at the back of the book?



If you only know what it takes for you to see, the pathway that leads to vision, you would understand that this happening by randomness is completely impossible! Your DNA that codes you is so specialized and unique that claiming it was by nothing would make you look silly. Watch the video below where Richard Dawkins contradicts himself trying to explain the origin of the universe...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v34QjYPuiEA
So how those this link to Allah being the true God? Anybody even the deist can claim this in debate.

*I'm yet to watch the video.
(Modified)

I've watched the video, it seems theists don't get what Dawkins was saying about nothing and something, secondly Dawkins is not a physicist but he knows what he's saying and understand his position on nothing = something. The video is just a cut and join from different debates I wonder how this give the full context of what he's saying.

Quantum Vacuum is said to be nothing in physics since it contain zero energy but it's not totally nothing, nothing is about "something" mysterious, that's what Dawkins said, I wonder how it got to do with any god and if it's a god which of the God? This argument is even for deist god.

I'm agnostic when it comes to the begining of the universe, if nothing is something mysterious like Dawkins said then it is unknown and there no way it's linked to personal Gods or any God, it's not a must we assume it a god or gods, it can be anything unknown!

I hope AgentofAllah can help out with quantum physics here.


Apparently, it is either nothing is something (mysterious) or nothing is nothing and can never bring forth something...
Have you read about quantum vacuum?


This brings me back to the author & book theory, if you cannot deny the existence of an author of a book which is in your possession, then why should you deny that there is an author of the DNA which has about 3 billion base pairs (these are macromolecules which contains the total information about you), and within this DNA, is a repair mechanism that reduces the error rate during replication from one in ten million bases to one in a billion i.e almost impossible for an error to occur!
I'm not denying the author of a book because the author picture can be seen and he can be located, the author is not anonymous but what you're denying is show me where this author came from? Tell me where or who caused the author then we can talk about the natural phenomenon that has NO link-evidence to any imaginary entities.


I thought you were once a Muslim, the above shouldn't have come from you. Arab Christians call God Allah! Even the Arab pagans called God Allah. I would repeat again, God is the same (but may be called different names due to language and culture), and there is none like this one true God!
Yes Arab Christians call Yahweh Allah because that's thier language, the argument here is the origin and nature of these Gods.

Yahweh a cannanite deity, Allah an Arabian pagan deity.


You may correct me if I am mistaken, reading through your posts, it seems you are trying to win converts to atheism or you just want to feel fly and show off that you are now an atheist or you are basically looking for an avenue to justify your atheism?!
I'm not trying to win any f**king argument, I'm simply preaching reason! grin
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by sino(m): 4:19pm On Jan 04, 2018
tintingz:
Zeus is the supreme deity in the Greek religion, Sango might be limited but he derive his power from Eledumare! It doesn't affect the premise that these Gods are source of thunder and immortal, I will like to know how Allah is different from human-like, is it the God that sit on a throne with hands and legs or a God that shows anger and reason like that of humans, please tell me how Allah is different from other Gods?

What Greek mythology are you reading from?! Zeus had a father who obviously was also a god, in fact, there were myriads of gods in Greek mythology, and Sango was born of a woman, and got married etc. God being a supreme being, need not to be entangled in such limitations and imperfections, and wouldn't exist within his creation, cos God should be greater than his creation in all ramifications...

To get a perfect description of God, read the following:

Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One,
Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent." (Q112:1-4)

There is no room for ambiguity, loop holes or limitations, all the attributes you have mentioned are mere similarities we share, but distinct from the reality which isn't comprehensible just like it is quite impossible, even with the advancement in AI, that a "machine" created by man, can understand how humans communicate....

tintingz:

And for your info, Allah was originally a supreme deity a local god of the pantheon worship by the Quraysh tribe until Muhammad made Allah the main God.
Lol, you just keep getting me amused, it seems your atheism is retrogressive, these are lines from overly "enthusiastic" Christian evangelists, please do not forget to also mention that Allah is the moon god... grin grin grin

tintingz:

Interesting! You stated a designer that's limited.

The reason Devices comes with manual is because the device is not perfect and the designer himself is not perfect which requires a manual to know how it works and maintain it.

# A perfect device from a perfect designer should be able to invent a device without no manual or guidelines.

# For a perfect designer to invent and give manual for his device shows he reasoned, now the question is where did he reason from?

^^^The above statement shows a limited designer who depends on something.

You invented a mobile phone that has no silent option, it's always ring out then suddenly along the years you decide to give laws that mobile phones shouldn't ring out that phones speakers should be blocked with something to prevent it from ringing out. Now use this for Muslim women on Niqab, Hijab.

For a designer to reason this way shows he's limited!
It is a user that needs the manual and not the inventor! Your analogy would only make sense that there is a NEED for the phone to be silent as time went by, therefore, because there was a NEED for women to be properly dressed and identified as Muslims, hence the law for the hijab was revealed. It doesn't remove anything from me as an inventor, that is why we have R&grin departments in successful companies!

tintingz:

Because natural phenomenon has process doesn't means it's perfect, natural disasters are perfect to you? Humans inventing things to travel is perfect to you? Why can the perfect designer give Humans wings to fly?
I didn't say the above, God is perfect, God created everything the way he wants, with obvious imperfections and limitations to make you appreciate the diversities as well as acknowledge the fact that you are insignificant in the scheme of things and would be in a state of seeking perfection which should normally lead you back to God!

tintingz:

If your God is potent and perfect, he shouldn't allow humans to create laws, he shouldn't himself join human trend in creating laws. Lol grin

A potent God should know what's best for Humans not modifications after creation.
Bro, God is the law giver, he isn't competing with anyone, his laws are commensurate with the NEEDS of man at any point in time... For someone who was a Muslim, I sincerely doubt you truly understood God then, and this is quite unfortunate.

tintingz:

If it's IMPOSSIBLE for everything to have come from NOTHING, then God must come from SOMETHING.
You can't argue that everything must come from something and exclude God. what kind of logic is that?

A > B > C > Z..... > A, the cycle continues, for A to exist back, Z must cause it.
What would knowing the origin of the author do to prove that a book was surely written by an author?! This is the question you need to ask yourself, isn't the book enough that it was indeed written by an author?! Do you ask to know the origin of an author before you believe the book was written by one?! Keep your cyclic logic to yourself, it doesn't help your illogical denial!

tintingz:

Death is part of nature, it doesn't need anyone controlling it, it's irrational to think some higher entity is controlling live and death when reality we're not seeing any intervention.
Yes it is part of nature, and nature has principles guiding it, so it is for the whether, for earthquakes, for so many things in nature, these principles or guidelines came from something, and that is God, not from nothing!

tintingz:

I don't believe in personal gods, trust me if there are evidence to proof the existence of Allah I will accept Allah, I'm open for truth with fact and evidence.

Someone believe unicorn exist and as well can't proof it existence, is it my fault to reject unicorn?
You wouldn't accept the truth even if it slaps you in the face, you are not seeking for the truth, and I am not talking about a unicorn! The fact that the universe and all what it contains exists, is enough evidence that there is a creator.

tintingz:

Like I said, empty talk empty talk.

Proof Allah Is the creator and other Gods including flying spaghetti monster are fake and false.

The last time I checked, an arab man in the desert cave wrote about Allah in a book, it's like writting fictional stories in my room and come out saying it's the true.
I have done that repeatedly, but since you are adamant on your views, I can't help you!

tintingz:

What about non Abrahamic religion?

Another blasphemy, flying spaghetti monster is the true God! Allah is false god.

Anyways, Maybe you should tell how the character of Allah and Olorun are the same and I want to know which God represent the true God?
God is one, different culture and languages represent God differently, but one thing in common is the believe in a creator of everything!

tintingz:

What crap logic is this. grin

The author is relevant to be known, where those this author came from? Abi when you buy a novel, you don't see about the author and the picture at the back of the book?

So you wouldn't believe that there is an author for a book in your possession because you don't know where the author came from?! Are you sure you know what crap logic is?!

BTW, I didn't say the book is a novel did I?!

tintingz:

So how those this link to Allah being the true God? Anybody even the deist can claim this in debate.

*I'm yet to watch the video.

Have you read about quantum vacuum?
Watch the video!

tintingz:

I'm not denying the author of a book because the author picture can be seen and he can be located, the author is not anonymous but what you're denying is show me where this author came from? Tell me where or who caused the author then we can talk about the natural phenomenon that has NO link-evidence to any imaginary entities.

The question is, Since you cannot deny the existence of an author because you do not know who or where the author is from, then why are you denying the existence of a creator because you do not see or know his origin?!

tintingz:

Yes Arab Christians call Yahweh Allah because that's thier language, the argument here is the origin and nature of these Gods.

Yahweh a cannanite deity, Allah an Arabian pagan deity.
and Eledumare, the yoruba pagan deity... But all are still referring to the supreme being right?! The creator of the universe right?!

tintingz:

I'm not trying to win any f**king argument, I'm simply preaching reason! grin
Preach on brother! You shall win many souls for the flying spaghetti monster! And please remind me, what are you saving us from again?! That we are going to die and nothing would happen right?! I'll tell you it doesn't take anything away from me if I die and nothing happens, I would definitely have no regrets!

1 Like 1 Share

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 6:49pm On Jan 04, 2018
sino:


What Greek mythology are you reading from?! Zeus had a father who obviously was also a god, in fact, there were myriads of gods in Greek mythology, and Sango was born of a woman, and got married etc. God being a supreme being, need not to be entangled in such limitations and imperfections, and wouldn't exist within his creation, cos God should be greater than his creation in all ramifications...
Zeus is still the supreme God in Greek pantheon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus

Whether he has parents or no parents he's still the king of gods in Greek religion.

Sango is part of manifestation of Eledumare, all Orisas are manifestation of Eledumare!


To get a perfect description of God, read the following:

Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One,
Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent." (Q112:1-4)

There is no room for ambiguity, loop holes or limitations, all the attributes you have mentioned are mere similarities we share, but distinct from the reality which isn't comprehensible just like it is quite impossible, even with the advancement in AI, that a "machine" created by man, can understand how humans communicate....
So if Allah doesn't have limit why does he hate pork, women hair, Homosexuals, a god that sit on throne like humans?




Lol, you just keep getting me amused, it seems your atheism is retrogressive, these are lines from overly "enthusiastic" Christian evangelists, please do not forget to also mention that Allah is the moon god... grin grin grin
Was Allah worship by Arabian pagans or not?


It is a user that needs the manual and not the inventor! Your analogy would only make sense that there is a NEED for the phone to be silent as time went by, therefore, because there was a NEED for women to be properly dressed and identified as Muslims, hence the law for the hijab was revealed. It doesn't remove anything from me as an inventor, that is why we have R&grin departments in successful companies!
And where did I said the manual is for the inventor?

Sorry, if you a perfect designer NEED to correct what you created, what does that make you, limited? Yes?

If Allah knows everything both the past and future why those he have have to correct his mistakes? An omnipotent God want to correct what he created he had to make the women apologize for what he made them be, please tell me how this God is unlimited!


I didn't say the above, God is perfect, God created everything the way he wants, with obvious imperfections and limitations to make you appreciate the diversities as well as acknowledge the fact that you are insignificant in the scheme of things and would be in a state of seeking perfection which should normally lead you back to God!
I thought God creation are perfect.

So if God created everything the way he wants, so God created everything without reasoning or what? Why should we care about a God that do things without reasoning? And if he reasoned when he created everything, where those he got his reasons from?

Did God create humans because he feel like doing so or he created humans because it's the right thing to do?

Let's see your response.


Bro, God is the law giver, he isn't competing with anyone, his laws are commensurate with the NEEDS of man at any point in time... For someone who was a Muslim, I sincerely doubt you truly understood God then, and this is quite unfortunate.
Like I said laws are relative, so I don't know which law you're talking about. Is the law that command men to beat thier disobedient wives, killing apostates, killing homosexuals, beating and stoning adulterers? Does this law applicable to everyone?

And bro, humans can determine what is right and wrong without an acient fairy book telling them.

I understand Gods, which is they are conflicting.


What would knowing the origin of the author do to prove that a book was surely written by an author?! This is the question you need to ask yourself, isn't the book enough that it was indeed written by an author?! Do you ask to know the origin of an author before you believe the book was written by one?! Keep your cyclic logic to yourself, it doesn't help your illogical denial!
Oga, I don't have problem with something must cause something only if you agree God is caused by something but if you exclude God then that's problematic in logical sense.

I don't have problem recognizing the existence of the author, the problematic there is something must cause the author, Something must cause something right?

You see you can't eat your cake and have it too.


Yes it is part of nature, and nature has principles guiding it, so it is for the whether, for earthquakes, for so many things in nature, these principles or guidelines came from something, and that is God, not from nothing!
So why those a perfect merciful God want earthquake for Humans?


You wouldn't accept the truth even if it slaps you in the face, you are not seeking for the truth, and I am not talking about a unicorn! The fact that the universe and all what it contains exists, is enough evidence that there is a creator.
So who create the creator? If you keep saying something must cause something, then what cause the creator?!


I have done that repeatedly, but since you are adamant on your views, I can't help you!
But I can help you reason!


God is one, different culture and languages represent God differently, but one thing in common is the believe in a creator of everything!
[quote]No, God is not one, this is a false claim from where you read it, except you agree Olorun or Brahma is the creator!

[quote]
So you wouldn't believe that there is an author for a book in your possession because you don't know where the author came from?! Are you sure you know what crap logic is?!

BTW, I didn't say the book is a novel did I?!
Tell me what cause the author and stop the empty talk and crap logic.

So which book are you talking about, whatever the case maybe a book must have author that's physical, can be located.


Watch the video!
Yes I've, I modified my previous post.

Here's is it,


I've watched the video, it seems theists don't get what Dawkins was saying about nothing and something, secondly Dawkins is not a physicist but he knows what he's saying and understand his position on nothing = something. The video is just a cut and join from different debates I wonder how this give the full context of what he's saying.

Quantum Vacuum is said to be nothing in physics since it contain zero energy but it's not totally nothing, nothing is about "something" mysterious, that's what Dawkins said, I wonder how it got to do with any god and if it's a god which of the God? This argument is even for deist god.

I'm agnostic when it comes to the begining of the universe, if nothing is something mysterious like Dawkins said then it is unknown and there no way it's linked to personal Gods or any God, it's not a must we assume it a god or gods, it can be anything unknown!



The question is, Since you cannot deny the existence of an author because you do not know who or where the author is from, then why are you denying the existence of a creator because you do not see or know his origin?!
Why are you denying the "higher cause" of the creator?


and Eledumare, the yoruba pagan deity... But all are still referring to the supreme being right?! The creator of the universe right?!
You also accept Olorun has children, you also accept Olorun sent Obatala to create the earth with sand, corn and chicken?


Preach on brother! You shall win many souls for the flying spaghetti monster! And please remind me, what are you saving us from again?! That we are going to die and nothing would happen right?! I'll tell you it doesn't take anything away from me if I die and nothing happens, I would definitely have no regrets!
But since you're a Muslim you're definitely going to Christian hell.

No regrets right? You definitely have no regrets being decieved all your life, like some fairy land flowing with milk and honey?
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by usba: 11:38am On Jan 05, 2018
tintingz:
Now I know the level of your reasoning that you result in red herring.

# Point to me where I'm not referring to established religion?

Here :


tintingz:
Are you with the Gods that you know each Gods will defend and cause conflict with each other? Do you see any God defending their people?(i am not talking about the ancient myths in the books)

If you cannot even keep up with what you are saying or the point you are trying to make, how then can such intellect even assume it is adequate to disprove the existence of God?


# There's no confusion when I said there are thousands of gods, it's a fact there are thousands of gods worshipped by people(note: I never said I believe there are thousand Gods existing nor one God), except you want to tell me people are not worshiping these Gods.

# Thank goodness you admit I "assumed" there are thousands of God that created the universe, you're the one claiming Allah is the only one true God and no other Gods, you will have to proof Allah is the only true God and other Gods don't exist.

It is obvious you do not comprehend things easily, there is nothing new in your rehearsed points made by others before you. The only difference is your barren techniques that abuse rational discourse. Now the simple point I made to you was that you are arguing under the assumption that there is a God and at the same time arguing under the assumption there is no God, which you obviously cannot have it both ways. That is the simple point that seemed to distant for you to understand. Do you get it now, No? grin grin


And do I believe any of these Gods exist? Here's what I said

This is very irrational and fallcious, please tell me how any of these Gods are intervening by defending thier people? Even if there's one God how's is he/she intervening?
https://www.nairaland.com/4259316/priest-converted-islam-tells-reason/1#63862837

Refer to the point above...


When you want to argue with a kid, you come down to his/her level, when a kid said santa Claus exist and unicorn, fairies don't exist, you will have to ask why he believe santa claus exist and unicorn, fairies don't exist.

Still doesn't help you out of your confusion grin


now answer the question above and stop the red herring!

Have you been to heaven that you concluded the absence of many gods means there's no strife in the heaven and presence of many Gods leads to strife? What evidence do you have to back that up?

Common sense sir, if in the world we live minor disagreement between countries with different allies with each other can lead to conflict do you then think such wouldn't be the case when one god interferes with the activity of another's? Logical Deduction, One God existence who deals fairly with all of humanity grin


Please tell me how the one God is intervening and stop the empty talk, well ofcos the one God work in mysterious ways. grin

Billions of people testify to how God has made an impact in their lives, No, grin his guidance through his wonderful words has made billions agents of good. But I trust you are going to rehearse another of your failed points from school of atheism grin


God Santa Claus intervene in a way that is balance and suit his wisdom, see how empty you sound. grin

So now you have left atheism to believe there is a God called Santa Claus? grin grin I am making huge progress.


Wrong, my argument here is for you to proof Allah is the one true God and other Gods are false!


Proof these Gods don't exist and Allah is the only true God that created the universe(you were the one the made the claim) then we will now go to the arguement of the existence of your one true God.

Comprehension issues as elucidated previously, religions misrepresent God that is why you always have a head God in most religion and ideas that generally conflict with each other in such religion.


Sorry but you said Islam don't believe other religion came as a result of Satan? See your confusion. Now the question is who created the devil

Wow, I can see why atheism appealed to you, you didn't have to do any critical thinking. you can't even comprehend simple things, what then do you understand? A for apple B for banana how does saying Satan mislead people into altering parts of their religion equates Satan created their religion? Outside satanism there is really no religion I know of that worship the devil. I don't argue with people that I consider un, I won't want to follow it intelligent, something grin.


Ok, Islam is not the first religion Agreed!

* The Quran lied when it said Allah sent prophets to every nation.

grin as a follow of lord Santa Claus you believe Santa Claus sent them, No? grin grin


Lol, here's what i said,

So a God that create women with feminine figure also want the women to apologize for being feminine, or a God that created homosexuals and want them to be killed for no reason? or a God that ordered men to beat their disobedient wives? is that the representation of a true God?
https://www.nairaland.com/4259316/priest-converted-islam-tells-reason#63860543

And you said it's the wrong representation of God, you forgot that what I said above can be found in the Quran! grin
Let me summarize what you are saying,
I don't believe in God but I believe he created homosexauls since when he was creating everyone he called me and said see that guy over there he is going be a homo, see that lady over there she is a lezbo and oh oh see that guy over there he is gonna be a tranny..grin grin see sir you are incompetent, your are an incompetent atheist who cannot even get across atheist points ready made for easy desemination. If there is ever an award for incompetent anti rational atheist then no other deserves such award except you. Like I stated earlier all this remains your misrepresentation of God. Please tell the school of atheism to send a more competent and experienced atheist, you obviously are out of your depth and mostly disappointing. grin



If you don't care about what I think, there are people that care about what I think and I'm not forcing anyone to care about what I think!
So use your common sense and reward what you wrote, since you concluded you don't care about what God says. grin

So my argument still stands, proof to me other Gods are false and Allah is the one true God?

It is beyond your comprehension level, like I stated before it is not a matter of non existence but misrepresentation.

I'm not the one that claim Allah is one true God that created the universe and other God's are false, all I ask is proof your claims, now that I follow the assumption of many God creating the universe for the sake of argument you turned it that I'm confused, I wonder who's confused.

Kindly go and learn how to debate rationally and stop the red herring.

Kindly go back to atheist school and properly learn how the points you poorly rehearse are made. But more importantly learn to comprehend the point one is making, without comprehension no amount of explaining can ever work. I don't think you are cutout for this atheist thing. grin

1 Like

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 1:53pm On Jan 05, 2018
This dude here is really helping with this arguement and making it easy for me! grin

usba:


Here :



If you cannot even keep up with what you are saying or the point you are trying to make, how then can such intellect even assume it is adequate to disprove the existence of God?
# Is God not part of established religion?, i was even saving you the stress to prove the historicity events of the myths known by each religion you are saying i am confused, since you are to prove them...

# Provide historical and archaeological evidence of these gods defending their people known in ancients myths stories e.g Allah sending birds with stones to destroy the enemy attacking mecca, Zeus defending the greeks from the titans, Yahweh defending the Jews from Pharaoh.

# While doing that, also answer this, why is Allah not defending muslims in palestine, syria and why is Yahweh not defending christians from boko haram attacks and in general why didnt any God intervene in 9/11 word trade center attack?


It is obvious you do not comprehend things easily, there is nothing new in your rehearsed points made by others before you. The only difference is your barren techniques that abuse rational discourse. Now the simple point I made to you was that you are arguing under the assumption that there is a God and at the same time arguing under the assumption there is no God, which you obviously cannot have it both ways. That is the simple point that seemed to distant for you to understand. Do you get it now, No? grin grin
I have made it clear from onset that i dont believe in any of these imaginary fairy gods, your argument is that Allah is the one true God and other Gods dont exist/false, now i ask you prove to me Allah exist and other Gods dont exist/false?

My assumption in my argument is base on the falsification of other Gods by you, get that to your skull!

Your red herring is getting boring, your technique to avoid the question cant work, now answer the question and stop diverting the argument.



Refer to the point above...[quote]
Refer back to the above.

[quote]
Still doesn't help you out of your confusion grin
Ok, What evidence do you that gives that 100% confidence that Allah exist and other Gods dont exist? Lets go straight to the point now.



Common sense sir, if in the world we live minor disagreement between countries with different allies with each other can lead to conflict do you then think such wouldn't be the case when one god interferes with the activity of another's? Logical Deduction, One God existence who deals fairly with all of humanity grin
Are you now comparing Gods way of thinking to that of humans?

So the Gods are dumb they cant have a peace committee like the UN created by Humans?



Billions of people testify to how God has made an impact in their lives, No, grin his guidance through his wonderful words has made billions agents of good. But I trust you are going to rehearse another of your failed points from school of atheism grin
Lol, billions of people dont worship one God, billions of people are not muslims, your statement here agree there are multiple good Gods, so why does Allah wants to throw unbelievers into hell fire for rejecting him? and if you mean billions of people are muslims are you saying all the billions of people are doing good? see your logic. grin

You also also forgot natural disasters have killed almost billions of these good people and children for centuries? Is this God impotent?


So now you have left atheism to believe there is a God called Santa Claus? grin grin I am making huge progress.
Yes i believe in almighty santa claus do you have problem with his existence?


Comprehension issues as elucidated previously, religions misrepresent God that is why you always have a head God in most religion and ideas that generally conflict with each other in such religion.
So what makes Islam the standard religion for the true God?


Wow, I can see why atheism appealed to you, you didn't have to do any critical thinking. you can't even comprehend simple things, what then do you understand? A for apple B for banana how does saying Satan mislead people into altering parts of their religion equates Satan created their religion? Outside satanism there is really no religion I know of that worship the devil. I don't argue with people that I consider un, I won't want to follow it intelligent, something grin.
So what evidence do you have that satan altered other religion and what makes you think Allah is not the villain God?

The last time i checked your God is the impotent God that cant prevent evil!


grin as a follow of lord Santa Claus you believe Santa Claus sent them, No? grin grin
Santa claus doesn't need prophets. cool


Let me summarize what you are saying,
I don't believe in God but I believe he created homosexauls since when he was creating everyone he called me and said see that guy over there he is going be a homo, see that lady over there she is a lezbo and oh oh see that guy over there he is gonna be a tranny..grin grin see sir you are incompetent, your are an incompetent atheist who cannot even get across atheist points ready made for easy desemination. If there is ever an award for incompetent anti rational atheist then no other deserves such award except you. Like I stated earlier all this remains your misrepresentation of God. Please tell the school of atheism to send a more competent and experienced atheist, you obviously are out of your depth and mostly disappointing. grin
I dont believe in God but you believe God created everything and knows everything, homosexuals are part of the all-knowing God creation so tell me why he hates and killed what he created?



So use your common sense and reward what you wrote, since you concluded you don't care about what God says. grin
How does this make any sense? undecided


It is beyond your comprehension level, like I stated before it is not a matter of non existence but misrepresentation.
So tell me what makes yours the right interpretation of God?

You can't just make claims and as well don't have evidence to back it up.


Kindly go back to atheist school and properly learn how the points you poorly rehearse are made. But more importantly learn to comprehend the point one is making, without comprehension no amount of explaining can ever work. I don't think you are cutout for this atheist thing. grin
LOL, go and answer the questions above and stop the empty talk. grin
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by Demmzy15(m): 2:45pm On Jan 05, 2018
The Sango and Zeus he's always screaming about all had fathers, they were born.

1 Like

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 3:54pm On Jan 05, 2018
Demmzy15:
The Sango and Zeus he's always screaming about all had fathers, they were born.
I agree they had fathers but it doesn't stop Zeus from being the supreme deity in Greek religion pantheon.

Sango is manifestation of Olorun the supreme deity and it doesn't stop sango from being a God.
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by sino(m): 4:09pm On Jan 05, 2018
tintingz:
Zeus is still the supreme God in Greek pantheon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus

Whether he has parents or no parents he's still the king of gods in Greek religion.

Sango is part of manifestation of Eledumare, all Orisas are manifestation of Eledumare!

Is Zeus or Sango said to be the creator of the universe, the supreme being?!

tintingz:

So if Allah doesn't have limit why does he hate pork, women hair, Homosexuals, a god that sit on throne like humans?

Allah (SWT) is the creator of everything, including the homosexuals, the pork and the woman hair! All what he created are subject to his will, they can in no way limit his existence or diminish his authority!


tintingz:

Was Allah worship by Arabian pagans or not?

Arab pagans recognized Allah as the supreme God that created all, but they worshiped other gods as a means to Allah, the reason they are called polytheist! Again worshiping the creation, instead of the creator!

tintingz:

And where did I said the manual is for the inventor?
This is what you said:

"The reason Devices comes with manual is because the device is not perfect and the designer himself is not perfect which requires a manual to know how it works and maintain it.

# A perfect device from a perfect designer should be able to invent a device without no manual or guidelines."

Please assist me in understanding, so manuals would be unnecessary if the device is perfect even if I haven't use such a device before right?!

tintingz:

Sorry, if you a perfect designer NEED to correct what you created, what does that make you, limited? Yes?

If Allah knows everything both the past and future why those he have have to correct his mistakes? An omnipotent God want to correct what he created he had to make the women apologize for what he made them be, please tell me how this God is unlimited!

You know I tried to make sense of your analogy in my response, but you keep going on a tangent...The way God created us is the best way in which he wanted, no MISTAKES, he had already created the ability for man to cover up his unclothedness. your analogy would have been apt if man never had the ability to USE clothing to cover up their unclothedness in the first place! So think well before bringing up your analogies next time.

tintingz:

I thought God creation are perfect.

So if God created everything the way he wants, so God created everything without reasoning or what? Why should we care about a God that do things without reasoning? And if he reasoned when he created everything, where those he got his reasons from?

Did God create humans because he feel like doing so or he created humans because it's the right thing to do?

Let's see your response.

Only God is perfect, and the way he wants us to be created is perfect, and his reasons are perfect! If you take decisions the way you want, does it mean you do not have a reason for your decision?! The "want" in itself is a reason! What do you think are the bases behind every human invention/creation?! Do you think the inventors of the computer/nuclear bomb/automobile etc. were thinking about the right thing to do or it was to serve the purpose they were created for?!

tintingz:

Like I said laws are relative, so I don't know which law you're talking about. Is the law that command men to beat thier disobedient wives, killing apostates, killing homosexuals, beating and stoning adulterers? Does this law applicable to everyone?

There are laws governing nature which everyone and everything obeys, whether you like it or not, you claim it is just nature taking its course, but I say Allah (SWT) is this law giver that dictates how nature takes its course, so whether you accept the shari'ah or not is inconsequential, because you cannot escape the other law which is universal!

tintingz:

And bro, humans can determine what is right and wrong without an acient fairy book telling them.

I understand Gods, which is they are conflicting.

Yes indeed, and how did humans get this amazing skill set to determine what is right and wrong?! Is it inherent or acquired?!

To accept one God isn't conflicting, to worship one God is not conflicting, you are the one conflicting with yourself!

tintingz:

Oga, I don't have problem with something must cause something only if you agree God is caused by something but if you exclude God then that's problematic in logical sense.

I don't have problem recognizing the existence of the author, the problematic there is something must cause the author, Something must cause something right?

You see you can't eat your cake and have it too.

Science is yet to unravel "nothing" that gave rise to the origin of the universe, I guess you shouldn't believe the attendant parts of the universe like earth is a subset of the universe right, that is if we are to go by your "elevated" reasoning right?!

I am telling you that you do not have to know the origin of God before you believe in him, that a piece of information is missing about an author does not mean that the author does not exist!

tintingz:

So why those a perfect merciful God want earthquake for Humans?
It is part of his perfect plan!

tintingz:

So who create the creator? If you keep saying something must cause something, then what cause the creator?!

But I can help you reason!

Tell me what cause the author and stop the empty talk and crap logic.

So which book are you talking about, whatever the case maybe a book must have author that's physical, can be located.

You cannot even help yourself reason! Over 3 billion base pairs, A-T, G-C these are the letter representation of nucleotide on your DNA, which codes for how you look, talk, digest food, how you reproduce, how you see, ear, walk, express your personality, etc. yet you believe there is no author for this, it was by "mistake" that all these over 3 billion base pairs came together to form you, and there is absolutely no reason or intelligence behind these designs...Do you know what 3 billion letters would look like when you write that in a book?!

The creator was not created! We are incapable of comprehending the essence of the creator, all you can do is apply reason to the vastness and greatness of the universe, and even with the advancement in science and technology, you still are very very far behind in understanding so many things about even this earth, so how on earth do you think the creator would even have a cause?! Is it even thinkable?!

I am talking about the author of the DNA which is a book with over 3 billion letters containing all the information about you or any other living organism!
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by sino(m): 4:17pm On Jan 05, 2018
tintingz:

Yes I've, I modified my previous post.

Here's is it,

I've watched the video, it seems theists don't get what Dawkins was saying about nothing and something, secondly Dawkins is not a physicist but he knows what he's saying and understand his position on nothing = something. The video is just a cut and join from different debates I wonder how this give the full context of what he's saying.

Quantum Vacuum is said to be nothing in physics since it contain zero energy but it's not totally nothing, nothing is about "something" mysterious, that's what Dawkins said, I wonder how it got to do with any god and if it's a god which of the God? This argument is even for deist god.

I'm agnostic when it comes to the begining of the universe, if nothing is something mysterious like Dawkins said then it is unknown and there no way it's linked to personal Gods or any God, it's not a must we assume it a god or gods, it can be anything unknown!


Forget about deist, all religious people are deist (generally speaking)! What we are talking about is whether nothing is something of which Dawkins was shown to be contradicting himself! I have told you that there is only one God, and this God is the originator of the universe!

With regards to quantum vaccum, I am not a physicist, but you should please always try to understand a concept before you bring it up in a discussion. The vaccum is not said to be nothing because it is has zero energy, but rather, it doesn't have any physical matter/particle, it is only represented by zero state energy level to indicate having the lowest possible energy... Anyways,

First of all, let's think of a vacuum in a classical way - as space entirely devoid of matter, with the lowest possible energy. There are no particles there, and nothing to interfere with pure physics.

But a byproduct of one of the most fundamental principles in quantum mechanics, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, states that there's a limit to how much we can know about quantum particles, and as a result, a vacuum isn't empty, it's actually buzzing with its own strange energy, and filled with particle-antiparticle pairs that appear and disappear randomly.

These are more like 'virtual' particles than physical matter, so ordinarily you can't detect them. But although they're invisible, like most things in the quantum world, they subtly influence the real world.

These quantum fluctuations produce randomly fluctuating electric fields that can affect electrons, which is how scientists first indirectly demonstrated their presence back in the 1940s.
Source

Since science is saying "although they are invisible, like most things in the quantom world, they subtly influence the real world" you would believe! But when I say the spiritual world is invisible to man, but does have influence in the real world, you would claim that is a fairy tale.

God cannot be seen, and has no origin, but that we are here and we can see and investigate the astonishing things around us, including this quantum vaccum, only points to the fact that we were created by something higher, which is God.

tintingz:

Why are you denying the "higher cause" of the creator?

If there was a higher cause of the creator, then it means that the creator is also a creation which would give rise to multiple creators which is impossible for us to have this universe and earth existing as we know it! Then it therefore means that the creator of everything cannot be created! As I opined earlier, since we cannot even comprehend the essence of the creator, then it is foolhardy to seek the cause of the creator, to brake it down for you, it is like a nursery school pupil trying to understand quantum mechanics!

tintingz:

You also accept Olorun has children, you also accept Olorun sent Obatala to create the earth with sand, corn and chicken?
Lol, oranges and apples bro, go back and understand my post!

tintingz:

But since you're a Muslim you're definitely going to Christian hell.
Unfortunately for you, Islam had already explained where the Christians and Jews got it wrong, Islam teaches that Moses and Jesus were sent from God, so with regards to the Abrahamic faith, we are all going back to the same God, and God will Judge us accordingly....

tintingz:

No regrets right? You definitely have no regrets being decieved all your life, like some fairy land flowing with milk and honey?

Why would I have regrets?! remember when I am dead, nothing happens, or is there an afterlife in atheism?!

But if there is a possibility of an afterlife, and God which you so much hate and have made some very unpalatable remarks about, would Judge you, then I assure you that not only would you regret, you would have to face the consequences...(And please this is not a threat, it just stating the opposite and plausible occurrence after death)

For me, it is a win-win!
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by sino(m): 5:10pm On Jan 05, 2018
Demmzy15:
The Sango and Zeus he's always screaming about all had fathers, they were born.

Not only were they born, they ate food, had intimate relations with women... If Zeus is the supreme deity, then what are his father and mother?! lesser gods?!

I had expected a reasonable approach in trying to disprove God, but the above is just plain ridiculous!

1 Like 1 Share

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 6:07pm On Jan 05, 2018
sino:

Forget about deist, all religious people are deist (generally speaking)! What we are talking about is whether nothing is something of which Dawkins was shown to be contradicting himself! I have told you that there is only one God, and this God is the originator of the universe!
Are you now siding deism and it concept of God to suit your argument? Please go and read about deistic God before you turn Allah to another thing!

You have not provide evidence there is one God.

With regards to quantum vaccum, I am not a physicist, but you should please always try to understand a concept before you bring it up in a discussion. The vaccum is not said to be nothing because it is has zero energy, but rather, it doesn't have any physical matter/particle, it is only represented by zero state energy level to indicate having the lowest possible energy... Anyways,

First of all, let's think of a vacuum in a classical way - as space entirely devoid of matter, with the lowest possible energy. There are no particles there, and nothing to interfere with pure physics.

But a byproduct of one of the most fundamental principles in quantum mechanics, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, states that there's a limit to how much we can know about quantum particles, and as a result, a vacuum isn't empty, it's actually buzzing with its own strange energy, and filled with particle-antiparticle pairs that appear and disappear randomly.

These are more like 'virtual' particles than physical matter, so ordinarily you can't detect them. But although they're invisible, like most things in the quantum world, they subtly influence the real world.

These quantum fluctuations produce randomly fluctuating electric fields that can affect electrons, which is how scientists first indirectly demonstrated their presence back in the 1940s.
Source
This argument is more like a support to deist god and has no link to your personal God.

Like i said, Quatum vacuum is nothing but not totally nothing, it is something mysterious that is unknown to us for now like the bold statement in your post.

I am not a physicist either like i said previously, The use of Nothing in physicist is not actually the nothing we commonly know, a vacuum is not empty as they contain energy but when a vacuum is in lowest energy(zero energy) then it is said to be "nothing", the article you provided never said quatum vacuum is something.

Johnydon22, AgentofAllah, your help with your physics knowledge are needed.



Since science is saying "although they are invisible, like most things in the quantom world, they subtly influence the real world" you would believe! But when I say the spiritual world is invisible to man, but does have influence in the real world, you would claim that is a fairy tale.
Does your spiritual world contain zero energy or can your spiritual world be studied like scientist are doing? Dont worry when scientists fully undertand how quatum physics work(a natural phenomenon), you will tell us how it is related to your spiritual world. grin

God cannot be seen, and has no origin, but that we are here and we can see and investigate the astonishing things around us, including this quantum vaccum, only points to the fact that we were created by something higher, which is God.
Your God is limited to a fairy book, Quantum vacuum is still a progressive study.


If there was a higher cause of the creator, then it means that the creator is also a creation which would give rise to multiple creators which is impossible for us to have this universe and earth existing as we know it! Then it therefore means that the creator of everything cannot be created! As I opined earlier, since we cannot even comprehend the essence of the creator, then it is foolhardy to seek the cause of the creator, to brake it down for you, it is like a nursery school pupil trying to understand quantum mechanics!
Oga, if you keep the premise argument that something must cause something, then i will keep asking what causes the creator?


Lol, oranges and apples bro, go back and understand my post![quote] Is Olorun same as Allah, yes or no?


[quote]Unfortunately for you, Islam had already explained where the Christians and Jews got it wrong, Islam teaches that Moses and Jesus were sent from God, so with regards to the Abrahamic faith, we are all going back to the same God, and God will Judge us accordingly....
What if Islam got it wrong?


Why would I have regrets?! remember when I am dead, nothing happens, or is there an afterlife in atheism?!

But if there is a possibility of an afterlife, and God which you so much hate and have made some very unpalatable remarks about, would Judge you, then I assure you that not only would you regret, you would have to face the consequences...(And please this is not a threat, it just stating the opposite and plausible occurrence after death)

For me, it is a win-win!
Sorry, not all Gods have the wicked heart of throwing people into hell, if there is afterlife i will enter state of Buddha and reincarnate, easy peezy lemon squeezy! grin

1 Like 1 Share

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by sino(m): 10:06pm On Jan 05, 2018
tintingz:
Are you now siding deism and it concept of God to suit your argument? Please go and read about deistic God before you turn Allah to another thing!

You have not provide evidence there is one God.
What is my concept of God?! Do deist believe in the concept of God as being the creator of everything?

tintingz:

This argument is more like a support to deist god and has no link to your personal God.
Lol, this your differentiation and classification is indeed interesting, yep my personal God, I guess this God belongs to only me right?!

tintingz:

Like i said, Quatum vacuum is nothing but not totally nothing, it is something mysterious that is unknown to us for now like the bold statement in your post.

I am not a physicist either like i said previously, The use of Nothing in physicist is not actually mean the nothing we commonly know, a vacuum is not empty as they contain energy but when a vacuum is in lowest energy(zero energy) then it is said to be "nothing", the article you provided never said quatum vacuum is something.

Your first statement was what made people laugh at Dawkins, please just stop, you don't know what you are talking about!

tintingz:

Does your spiritual world contain zero energy or can your spiritual world be studied like scientist are doing? Dont worry when scientists fully undertand how quatum physics work(a natural phenomenon), you will tell us how it is related to your spiritual world. grin

I am not worried at all. But I am certain that you would come to full understanding, when death comes, what and how the spiritual world works!

tintingz:

Your God is limited to a fairy book, Quantum vacuum is still a progressive study.
If this makes you feel good about your beliefs, no problem!

tintingz:

Oga, if you keep the premise argument that something must cause something, then i will keep asking what causes the creator?

For you to claim to preach reason, you seem not to get a hang of what that word means. The creator cannot be created, for that would defeat the concept of a creator in the first instance, and please, I am talking about the creator of the whole universe and all what is in it, and for your information, the creator is distinct from his creation, the premise that something must cause something, only applies to the creation, not the creator! He is higher above and beyond his creation, and that is why he is called God!

tintingz:

What if Islam got it wrong?
It isn't your problem to solve! I have said God would judge accordingly

tintingz:

Sorry, not all Gods have the wicked heart of throwing people into hell, if there is afterlife i will enter state of Buddhism and reincarnate, easy peezy lemon squeezy! grin

I wasn't giving you a Buddhist concept of an afterlife, but an Islamic concept of an afterlife which is much in tune with what is obtainable in this world, that is, there are consequences for your actions, you would reap whatever you sow, and that is the law of nature...If our man made laws have rewards and punishments, how on earth do you think afterlife would be nothing more than reincarnation? into what exactly?! And for your information again, Budha was also a creation, he had a father and mother, he is not the creator of the universe, heck, he never claimed he got inspiration from the creator about the afterlife, Buddhist do not even believe in God!

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Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tbaba1234: 3:46am On Jan 06, 2018
sino:


Not only were they born, they ate food, had intimate relations with women... If Zeus is the supreme deity, then what are his father and mother?! lesser gods?!

I had expected a reasonable approach in trying to disprove God, but the above is just plain ridiculous!

Pseudo-intelligent arguments.. You are wasting your time with this guy. You will know when he is ready to sincerely engage. Right now, he is trying to validate his misguidance.

2 Likes

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 5:06am On Jan 06, 2018
sino:

What is my concept of God?! Do deist believe in the concept of God as being the creator of everything?
This shows you don't know the concept of deist God.

Educate yourself >> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Deism

Lol, this your differentiation and classification is indeed interesting, yep my personal God, I guess this God belongs to only me right?!
How does Allah link to quantum physics? Do you know the process was billions years ago when the big bang started or billion of years now equate to six days Allah created the universe in the Quran?


Your first statement was what made people laugh at Dawkins, please just stop, you don't know what you are talking about!
Lol, people laughed when Dawkins was explaining Nothing because they are ignorant of what nothing is all about in physics field, Dawkins even ask "what's funny" like what's funny when I'm explaining quantum physics and the dumb priest made it worse by responding in a dumb way.

I know what quantum vacuum is all about, I never find Dawkins explanation funny, any physicists will never find it funny.


I am not worried at all. But I am certain that you would come to full understanding, when death comes, what and how the spiritual world works!
There is no evidence of any spiritual world, so let's take this as fairyland(or we don't know) until it's proven.


If this makes you feel good about your beliefs, no problem!
Take Quran away and tell me how Allah will exist? Infact Allah and idols are the same, non of them communicate nor intervene, the only difference is Allah is imaginary.


For you to claim to preach reason, you seem not to get a hang of what that word means. The creator cannot be created, for that would defeat the concept of a creator in the first instance, and please, I am talking about the creator of the whole universe and all what is in it, and for your information, the creator is distinct from his creation, the premise that something must cause something, only applies to the creation, not the creator! He is higher above and beyond his creation, and that is why he is called God!
How does it implies to only creation and not the creator, what logical justification do you have for that?

Good...

If the creator or the first cause is not part of everything must come from something then you're agreeing some things come/came from nothing (e.g the universe as infinite regress), and if the creator is not part of everything or something then the first cause is nothing then I wonder why you waste your time everyday worshiping nothing!


It isn't your problem to solve! I have said God would judge accordingly
What If your God is wrong, this is a question that require answer.


I wasn't giving you a Buddhist concept of an afterlife, but an Islamic concept of an afterlife which is much in tune with what is obtainable in this world, that is, there are consequences for your actions, you would reap whatever you sow, and that is the law of nature...If our man made laws have rewards and punishments, how on earth do you think afterlife would be nothing more than reincarnation? into what exactly?!
I laughed at your ignorance here. grin

Buddhism believe in the concept of Karma infact that's the major principles in thier beliefs, they believe what you do now in this life(good or bad) will have effect in your next life.

But I don't believe in karma nor what you reap you will sow statement or if you do good then goodness will be your reward, I don't believe in any of that, I believe in coincidence!

Good people face unfortunate reward, bad people face good reward, many innocent children suffer for no reason. So oga, consequences are not accurate as you think and not fair to us, that's the reason laws are created and even at that, people get away with the laws e.g bad politicians.

If I'm a good kind person throughout my life-time but I reject Allah, will Allah still throw me inside hell? If yes then how is it justifiable?


And for your information again, Budha was also a creation, he had a father and mother, he is not the creator of the universe, heck, he never claimed he got inspiration from the creator about the afterlife, Buddhist do not even believe in God!
SMH, your ignorance tho.

Guatama was a teacher, sage that took up the title Buddha, Buddha is a state of spirituality, Goatama attained the full state of Buddhahood through reincarnation and become a divine being like a god.

Yes Buddhism don't believe in creator just like Jainism, they believe a creator shouldn't create the universe and as well destroy it for no reason, Jainism practice is also similar to Buddhism, they attained the full state of purification from avoiding bad deeds to complete good deed through reincarnation and become a divinity, they believe anybody can become a god, Jains don't kill any living creatures even insect they don't kill.

If I'm to pick a religion, I will go for Jainism or Buddhism.
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 5:27am On Jan 06, 2018
sino:


Not only were they born, they ate food, had intimate relations with women... If Zeus is the supreme deity, then what are his father and mother?! lesser gods?!

I had expected a reasonable approach in trying to disprove God, but the above is just plain ridiculous!
Lol, funny as it sound.
For your info, Allah is an anthropomorphic god, a god with human traits and character, a god that get angry, emotions, sit on a throne somewhere above the sky and communicate with angels like humas do, give laws like humans.

The supremacy of Greek Gods can be passed or overthrown, Zeus is the only supreme God to maintain the king of the Gods.
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 5:34am On Jan 06, 2018
tbaba1234:


Pseudo-intelligent arguments.. You are wasting your time with this guy. You will know when he is ready to sincerely engage. Right now, he is trying to validate his misguidance.
So because my argument doesn't suit your imagination(I won't say logic) it's term a pseudo-intelligent argument, sino argument is more like a pseudo-intelligent argument, a muslim using Quantum physics argument for Allah/Quran. grin
He even said all religion believe in the concept of a deist god, but I never called his argument pseudo because all arguments are welcome, all what you have to do is proof your claims.

But since the chief imam of Nairaland is illogical and sentimental to see that, I wonder what makes him, a pseodo-fatwa giver? grin
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by sino(m): 2:00pm On Jan 06, 2018
tbaba1234:


Pseudo-intelligent arguments.. You are wasting your time with this guy. You will know when he is ready to sincerely engage. Right now, he is trying to validate his misguidance.
You no see me see wahala so...But honestly I think he is "troubled" the reason he jumps on religious threads trying too hard to justify his decision...Why would anyone be bothered about another being deceived when he claims to be sure nothing would happen at the end of the day?!

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Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 2:37pm On Jan 06, 2018
sino:

You no see me see wahala so...But honestly I think he is "troubled" the reason he jumps on religious threads trying too hard to justify his decision...Why would anyone be bothered about another being deceived when he claims to be sure nothing would happen at the end of the day?!
@ bolded what do you mean by that?

You're the one to dictate what and what I shouldn't debate on.

You are the law that said anyone that debate about public matters is "troubled"?
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by AgentOfAllah: 10:52am On Jan 12, 2018
For some reason I didn't get notified of your mentions Tintingz. But yes, your argument about nothing is pretty much accurate. I know of no possible to conceive of "nothing", so I think it is pure folly to even talk about the characteristics of nothing, and what can come of it.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by sino(m): 11:14am On Jan 12, 2018
AgentOfAllah:
For some reason I didn't get notified of your mentions Tintingz. But yes, your argument about nothing is pretty much accurate. I know of no possible to conceive of "nothing", so I think it is pure folly to even talk about the characteristics of nothing, and what can come of it.

Can you please enlighten me on how a quantum vacuum is nothing because it has zero energy?! And please also elucidate,as a physicist (I am assuming you are one), is it possible to say a vacuum is nothing?!
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by tintingz(m): 12:04pm On Jan 12, 2018
AgentOfAllah:
For some reason I didn't get notified of your mentions Tintingz. But yes, your argument about nothing is pretty much accurate. I know of no possible to conceive of "nothing", so I think it is pure folly to even talk about the characteristics of nothing, and what can come of it.
Thanks for the confirmation, I need a physicist to confirm my explanation on quantum vacuum.
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by AgentOfAllah: 1:57pm On Jan 12, 2018
sino:


Can you please enlighten me on how a quantum vacuum is nothing because it has zero energy?!
Quantum vacuum is not nothing, nor does it have zero energy. You're missing a word between zero and energy; point. Zero point energy is not zero energy, it is just the lowest possible energy state of a system. In the case of vacuum, it is the smallest energy by which virtual particles pop in and out of existence.

And please also elucidate,as a physicist (I am assuming you are one), is it possible to say a vacuum is nothing?!
Vacuum is by no means nothing. In fact, it may very well be everything! Conceptually speaking, everything that exists is just a unique flavour of energertic expressions (waves, basically) smeared out in all of space and time. Think about this for a second! There is a non-zero probability that an extension of you, your wave function, is occupying that thing in space which we refer to as vacuum. This is aside from the other particles that pop in and out of existence at will. So what then is the definition of nothing?
Re: The Priest Who Converted To Islam Tells His Reason by sino(m): 12:52pm On Jan 13, 2018
AgentOfAllah:

Quantum vacuum is not nothing, nor does it have zero energy. You're missing a word between zero and energy; point. Zero point energy is not zero energy, it is just the lowest possible energy state of a system. In the case of vacuum, it is the smallest energy by which virtual particles pop in and out of existence.


Vacuum is by no means nothing. In fact, it may very well be everything! Conceptually speaking, everything that exists is just a unique flavour of energertic expressions (waves, basically) smeared out in all of space and time. Think about this for a second! There is a non-zero probability that an extension of you, your wave function, is occupying that thing in space which we refer to as vacuum. This is aside from the other particles that pop in and out of existence at will. So what then is the definition of nothing?

Many thanks for your explanation, so in essence, you are saying a quantum vaccum is something buzzing with particles having energy, hence it is a folly to claim that a quantum vaccum is nothing?

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