@Frosbel: « #28 on: Yesterday at 11:28:27 PM »

Quote from: nopuqeater on Yesterday at 11:03:24 PM
@Olaadegbu: « #20 on: Today at 01:09:34 PM » Jesus the son of Mary who herarded the coming of Muhammad as Ahmad in Surah Saffa verse 6, the Jesus who says he is a prophet of Allah and asked his companions as helper of his ministry in the cause of Allah in Surah Maida, Jesus whom Allah says in Surah Nisaa that was not crucified nor killed but made to appear so to those whose heart waivered, is my Prophet. Thats different from your Jesus of 1 part of 3 parts making up a single God. Sorry if you did not know the difference. Now you have it.

Show me in the BIBLE where Jesus Christ heralded the coming of Muhammad. Please do it now.

If I dont go, the Comforter will not come. Quality of Comforter;
1). What he hears from God, he will speak.
2). He will not speak of his own interest.
3). He will remind you of all truth about me, not what you say about me that is untrue.
4). He will teach you to all things. The all things I did not teach you.
5). He will abide with you for ever (for he will have a consistent, unchanging statement that will stand and hold up till end of mankind)
Now tell me from the above if Muhammad (AS) is not the another comforter that Jesus son of Mary (AS) promised? Disproof Jesus and me, please.

Why can the Quran not stand the test of its own authenticity, why does it have to desperately comb through the Jewish Torah and Christian scriptural texts to prove its authenticity ? lol.

Frosbel must be frosting from the mouth with this idea. Nothing Quran borrowed from the Bible meaning the OT/NT. Unless you are telling me that your Bible is Kitabul fil Lau in Mafth in Heaven?

I am waiting for your answer !

Read my responses, above.

"Mohammed vs Jesus, the Christ" Comparison of Teachings of Mohammed With Teachings of Jesus From Messengers of Christ

Mohammed was the prophet of war; Christ is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7).

Mohammed's disciples killed for the faith; Christ's disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2; 2 Timothy 4:7).

Mohammed promoted persecution against the "infidels"; Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Timothy 1:13-15).

Mohammed was the taker of life; Christ was the giver of life (John 10:27-28).

Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands; Christ murdered none but saved many (compare John 12:48).

Mohammed's method was COMPULSION; Christ's aim was voluntary CONVERSION (Acts 3:19).

Mohammed practiced FORCE; Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29, 35).

Mohammed was a WARRIOR; Christ is a DELIVERER (Col. 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:10).

Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword; Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; Acts 2:37).

Mohammed said to the masses, "Convert or die!"; Christ said, "Believe and live!" (John 6:47; 11:25-26).

Mohammed was swift to shed blood (Romans 3:15-17); Christ shed His own blood for the salvation of many (Ephesians 1:7).

Mohammed preached "Death to the infidels!"; Christ prayed "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34)

They are not to be compared. Jesus christ is THE WAY, THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER. HE IS NOT ONE OF THE WAYS.

Since you all cannot debunk the assertion below, I will take it that the assertion that Jesus is not a prince of peace but rather an intolerant vengeful killer until otherwise proven, according to the evidence below.

AIRDIG:

@Olaadegbu
Candidly speaking, it depends on which Jesus Christ you are talking about:
Besides, what's it with you & magic? uhm? Now, Jesus Christ is a Moslem's prophet, next he's not (of course when it suit him). Obviously, the Muslims do not believe in your Jesus= son = father = "ghost"

And talking about this equation in relation to your assertion above; I guess you got it bad, cos it's obvious you are into some form of deceit and slight of hand.

How dare you boast about your abracadabra-ish twist of "Jesus" peacefulness & non-culpability, for:
if Jesus= son = father = "ghost"

then he is the following and more: 
    * Jesus was the king of war (Deuteronomy 20.11, 18)
    * Jesus disciples killed for the faith ((Judges 15.16)
    * Jesus promoted persecution against the "infidels"(2 Kings 10.19.30)
    * Jesus was the taker of life (Judges 11.29, 39)
    *Jesus and his fellow warriors murdered thousands (Judges 1.2, 7).
    * Jesus’ method was C[b]OMPULSION[/b] (Luke 19.27)
    * Jesus is a hater of the physically impaired (Lame, deaf, Blind) (Leviticus (21:16,24)
    * Jesus practiced FORCE and uses evil spirit to torment people (1 Samuel 16:14)
    * Jesus was a WARRIOR (Exodus 15.3, Genesis 32.24)
    * Jesus said to the masses, "Convert or die!" (John 15:6)
    * Jesus is a slave master, preaches slavery; dont blame white europeans blame Jesus (Leviticus 25.44)
    * Jesus swift to shed blood (1Chronicles 13.9,10, Numbers 16.41,45)
    * Jesus preached "Death to the infidels!" (Deuteronomy 13.5,9)

AIRDIG:

CONT'D
    * Jesus declared a holy[b] war[/b] (Crusade) against infidels (Judges 15.16, Exodus 34.13).
    * Jesus constrained people by conquest; (Numbers 31.17,18).
    * Crusaders/terrorists derive their inspiration from Jesus and carry out their despicable atrocities in his name (2 Kings 10.19.30, http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm)
    * Followers & disciples of Jesus respond to the terrorist attacks by cheering in the streets (http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm, )
    * Many Christians are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder (Exodus 34.13, Exodus 22.18)
    * Jesus called upon his servants to fight; (Joshua 10.11)
    * Jesus called upon his servants to LIE (Romans 3.7)
    * Jesus ordered death to the Philistines, Hittite, and Jebusites etc (Deuteronomy 20.11,18)
    * The Bible says, "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them" (2 Chronicles 14, Exodus 22.18)
    * Jesus' mission was to conquer the world  and continue with the sword (Matthew 5:17)
    * Jesus claimed that there was but one God (Deut 6:4, Mark 12:29, 1 Chronicles 17:20)
    * Jesus' tomb: EMPTY!  (Yeah! only dead men have tomb)

The same Jesus=Son of god=god who wrestled with Jacob all night & displaced his hip? a man of peace?
Abeg make I hear word & Pls, stop your phony lies!

@nopuqeater
I guess there's no point replying the post, seeing that their rope is around their neck. Hence the factually-erroneous and logically nonsensical comparison these xtians started to demonize Muhammed is now all up in their face.

AIRDIG:

Since you all cannot debunk the assertion below, I will take it that the assertion that Jesus is not a prince of peace but rather an intolerant vengeful killer according to the evidence below.

@nopuqeater
I guess there's no point replying the post, seeing that their rope is around their neck. Hence the factually-erroneous and logically nonsensical comparison they started to demonize Muhammed is now all up in their face.

My aim is never to attack any religion but to reveal the hypocrisy you started by presenting facts rather than such bigotry, fanaticism and arrogance.

Your points will be debunked comprehensively in a short while, give us some time. lol.

Not everyone is plugged 24*7 in front of their computers.

@AIRDIG

Many have adopted this accusation as the main complaint of hindrance to believing in evangelical Christianity. There is no other concept of God attacked more than this subject. There are many things about God that are not understood immediately, I've heard the same for predestination.


I’ve heard it said "people don’t join the Evangelical church because they can’t understand the teaching on the Trinity". This is just one of many straw man arguments. People do not come to Christ because they don’t understand the numerous doctrines. They refuse to because they cannot admit they are sinful and are in need of help outside themselves. Turning over their control to God is an act of faith.


Instead faith is substituted with the carnal mind wanting to understand something from strictly a human perspective. If I can't fully understand it I will not believe, but this is only an excuse. As Jesus stated in Jn.3:19-21" Men love darkness rather than light, they don't come to Christ because their deeds will be exposed".


Both Jews and Muslim's emphatically deny that God has a Son, if one is going to find a doctrine offensive to them, I think this would be it. No one preaches the Trinity in salvation but what is preached is that Jesus is the Son of God, he is Lord. We learn about the nature of God and other basic doctrines as we grow in the faith, not before. The simple reason is we need the Holy Spirit to be our teacher in the deeper things of God.

Is the Trinity pagan? The pagan religions had what we call trinities however on closer examination they are not the same in concept or substance. In the same way we would not agree with all the other religions that have a strict monotheistic view of God to be embraced as the same God of the Bible. (Islam, Bahai) The pagan concept was encapsulated with a Father, Mother, giving birth to a Son.


They were three major Gods with many minor god's as well. Their trinity was comprised of three Gods not one. The Greek triad of Zeus, Athena, and Apollo, the Hindu triad of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva the Egyptian triad of Isis, Horus, and Sub bear no resemblance to the Biblical Trinity.


They were all separate not united as the one God and almost unanimously had a mother involved as in a heavenly family.  This was really tritheism, which has more in common with Mormonism than a triune God. Anti Trinitarians make usage of the statues with three heads and saying that is our pagan God. If one is going to discount the Trinity because of some similarities in name only and not in substance. Then maybe they should be looking at their own pagan similarities. One can still be in idolatry, if their one God is not the God of the Bible.

Anti Trinitarians make usage of the statues with three heads and saying that is our pagan God. If one is going to discount the Trinity because of some similarities in name only and not in substance. Then maybe they should be looking at their own pagan similarities. One can still be in idolatry, if their one God is not the God of the Bible.

Where did the pagans get a concept of three ? Why not two or four ? Where did they get the idea of a God in heaven anyway? What about their belief in a virgin and a son, where did that originate from ? Rom.1:20-25 tells us that man from the beginning knew God.",  'and their foolish hearts were darkened" vs.25 "they exchanged the truth for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the creator." When mankind fell into darkness of sin, they still retained some elements of the truth but distorted its meaning and it became lost.

As Walter Martin wrote "In order to find out if the doctrine of the Trinity is true, we do not look to see if it resembles paganism, but to the bible, to see if God teaches it in his word. Pagans also believe in the concept of God. does this mean that God must not be true? Pagans sleep. Does that mean sleeping is wrong ? We must not dismiss an idea merely because it is held in common with those whom we may not approve." (the New Cults p.49) Lets not try to find all kinds of perversions from the outside that have nothing to do with the Biblical record, lets go to the Scripture to prove our major points.

Alexander Hislop, in his book, "the two Babylon's", traces the history of the practices and traditions of the Roman Catholic church. He writes on pg. 18, "All these forms have existed from ancient times, while overcome with idolatry, the recognition of the Trinity was universal, proving how deep rooted in the human race was the doctrine on the subject , which comes out so distinctly in Genesis" Robert watts in New Apologetic says "The Pagan triads are "residuary fragments of their lost knowledge of God, not different stages in a process of evolution. But evidence of a moral and spiritual degradation" (Augustus H. Strongs systematic Theology p.352)

While their are Pagan Trinities which can be traced back to Babylon, instead of supporting anti Trinitarian views such as the Watchtower literature promotes, it is evidence for the tri-une God. Lets not try to find all kinds of perversions from the outside that have nothing to do with the Biblical record, lets go to the Scripture to prove our major points

Hislop writes that many pagan religions held to one infinite God the creator. Strict monotheism is found in Islam and a few other religions. Are we now to accept their view because God is called one (singular).

If we are to reject the concept of the triune God, a unified one, because of the pagan distortions, then we must reject much more than this. The pagan cultures also had a virgin birth and some even had a resurrection, Tammuz died and raised 40 days later. The pagan religions had a priesthood and sacrifices, this too became distorted with human sacrifices for Gods blessings. Some Pagans believed that certain gods became men. They had Biblical symbology such as a dove, the lamb, altars, their are many religions that have distortions of the Bibles account of the flood. Are we now to reject Genesis because of their misrepresentations.

They also practiced tongues- ecstatic babble. All of these are counterfeits and distortions of truth, yet we are told since they have a counterfeit Trinity, we are to reject the Biblical Trinity on the same grounds. If you are going to do that, then you must reject all of it on the basis of it being found in some form in ancient paganism. You then annihilate the doctrine of Christ as the God/man, virgin birth, his sacrifice etc. All these are the proof of what Paul explained of what happened in history in Romans one, that mankind had a true knowledge but refused to worship him and sank into idolatry.

The God of the Bible is unique. He is tri-une, which is neither polytheistic nor is it tri-theistic. God is one in nature and is composed of three distinct eternal persons. They are one in substance with a difference in position. What makes all three the one God is that they share the same nature. This is the simple description of the God of the Bible. There is one choice from the Bibles revelation, if one denies the tri-une God, they are either left with atheism or polytheism.

Since you all cannot debunk the assertion below, I will take it that the assertion that Jesus is not a prince of peace but rather an intolerant vengeful killer according to the evidence below.

So your prophet Isa ( Jesus ) was not a prince of peace but a vengeful killer, lol. ?

You also believe that he is the God of the bible since you tied his name to the OLD Testament even though he was revealed in New Testament in physical form.

And because the Quran cannot stand up to itself, it tries to concoct stories from the bible mixed with fables and wishful thinking to give credence to the foretelling of the coming of Muhammad. 

Oh what confusion, what madness and what blindness.

May God open your eyes and lead you away from deception, lies, half-truths and ignorance.

@nopuqeater

Muslims have been told that Jesus predicted the coming of Mohammad. If one looks at the context of what Jesus said, one can see that he meant someone else.

Muslims are told that the Comforter to come that Jesus promised was Mohammad. Let us see what Jesus really said.

Who is the Comforter that Jesus promised?

Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;


Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me:


Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


Summary of this part:

1. the Comforter will abide with them “forever.” Mohammad did not live then, and could not do this – be with them. Now that he has come and gone, he is not with anyone forever.

2. The Comforter is the Holy Ghost, not a man, who will “teach all things.” No man knows “all things,” only God.

3. The Comforter is a Spirit of Truth. Mohammad was a man, not a spirit.

4. Jesus had to leave so that the Comforter could come. That implied he was coming soon after Jesus left. Also, Jesus said that HE was sending the Comforter. Mohammad never claimed that Jesus sent him.

-

The disciples are to wait for the “promise” in Jerusalem.

Luk 24:49 And, behold, I [Jesus] send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he [Jesus] was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.


Summary of this part:

1. The “coming” of the Comforter occurred in Jerusalem. That is not where Mohammad was when he felt “called.”

2. The disciples were waiting and expecting the Comforter in about 33 AD. They could not wait until the 500s AD for Mohammad, because they could not live that long.

3. The promise would give them power.


When did the Comforter come?

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.


Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.


Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.


Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Summary of this part:

1. Jesus died at Passover. He appeared after his resurrection 3 days later, and was with them about 30 days. He then ascended into heaven. Pentecost occurs about 45 days after Passover.

2. The disciples were given the power of the Holy Ghost.

Mohammad, again, could not have come at this time, and he gave no supernatural power to anyone.

The Promise of the Comforter was fulfilled 2000 years ago when the Holy Ghost came to the disciples in Jerusalem.

Here again for the last time!!
Debunk the assertion below:

AIRDIG:

@Olaadegbu
Jesus = son=father="ghost"
   * Jesus was the king of war (Deuteronomy 20.11, 18)
   * Jesus disciples killed for the faith ((Judges 15.16)
   * Jesus promoted persecution against the "infidels"(2 Kings 10.19.30)
   * Jesus was the taker of life (Judges 11.29, 39)
   *Jesus and his fellow warriors murdered thousands (Judges 1.2, 7).
   * Jesus’ method was C[b]OMPULSION[/b] (Luke 19.27)
   * Jesus is a hater of the physically impaired (Lame, deaf, Blind) (Leviticus (21:16,24)
   * Jesus practiced FORCE and uses evil spirit to torment people (1 Samuel 16:14)
   * Jesus was a WARRIOR (Exodus 15.3, Genesis 32.24)
   * Jesus said to the masses, "Convert or die!" (John 15:6)
   * Jesus is a slave master, preaches slavery; dont blame white europeans blame Jesus (Leviticus 25.44)
   * Jesus swift to shed blood (1Chronicles 13.9,10, Numbers 16.41,45)
   * Jesus preached "Death to the infidels!" (Deuteronomy 13.5,9)

AIRDIG:

CONT'D
   * Jesus declared a holy[b] war[/b] (Crusade) against infidels (Judges 15.16, Exodus 34.13).
   * Jesus constrained people by conquest; (Numbers 31.17,18).
   * Crusaders/terrorists derive their inspiration from Jesus and carry out their despicable atrocities in his name (2 Kings 10.19.30, http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm)
   * Followers & disciples of Jesus respond to the terrorist attacks by cheering in the streets (http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm, )
   * Many Christians are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder (Exodus 34.13, Exodus 22.18)
   * Jesus called upon his servants to fight; (Joshua 10.11)
   * Jesus called upon his servants to LIE (Romans 3.7)
   * Jesus ordered death to the Philistines, Hittite, and Jebusites etc (Deuteronomy 20.11,18)
   * The Bible says, "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them" (2 Chronicles 14, Exodus 22.18)
   * Jesus' mission was to conquer the world  and continue with the sword (Matthew 5:17)
   * Jesus claimed that there was but one God (Deut 6:4, Mark 12:29, 1 Chronicles 17:20)
   * Jesus' tomb: EMPTY!  (Yeah! only dead men have tomb)

The same Jesus=Son of god=god who wrestled with Jacob all night & displaced his hip? a man of peace?
Abeg make I hear word & Pls, stop your phony lies!

@Airdig et al
As Muslims, we should never, ever say anything negative about Jesus Christ (Prophet Isa)
That is against the sunnah of our religion
Please you are walking on thin ice here
What would be the benefit of this argument?
Win a pointless argument against Frosbel?
And commit a grievous sin in the process?
That would be a pyrrhic victory if you could even pull it off given the way he would use circular arguments
As a Christian, he has no qualms about denigrating eveything Islam holds dear
He should go and confront a jew
Who would not have any qualms about insulting everything holy in christianity

Remember as muslims, we cannot even abuse their religious leaders
let alone the Prophet Isa
Flee from the sin he is luring you into

Please allow him to amuse himself to his heart content
Afterall atheists do so everyday
There is a reward for all action
especially those people do not repent from

Salaam

AIRDIG:

Here again for the last time!!
Debunk the assertion below:

I want an educated answer from you first.

Was Jesus the GOD of the bible in the OLD Testament ?

If not why do you quote his name in OLD Testament passages ? lol

AIRDIG:

Here again for the last time!!
Debunk the assertion below:

frosbel:

I want an educated answer from you first.

Was Jesus the GOD of the bible in the OLD Testament ?

If not why do you quote his name in OLD Testament passages ? lol

AIRDIG i would require an intelligent answer from u. We are comparing Jesus and Mohammad and not God and Mohammad. If u want to be reasonable pls do so.

Muslims believes Jesus was a prophet like mohammad. lets just pretend its so. Now compare the two


Can u show me anywhere in the bible that The man Jesus christ led a battle or war like mohammad did all his life?


Did Jesus ever killed with his bare hands like mohaamd did?

was jesus promiscuous like mohammad?


Even if jesus was God in the OT bible did the God led a battle personally like mohammad did and killed many?

All the battles led by David, moses and others did God come down personally to fight in the battles,


For u AIRDIG to make sense u must debunk my assertions above

AIRDIG:


Candidly speaking, it depends on which Jesus Christ you are talking about:
Besides, what's it with you & magic? uhm? Now, Jesus Christ is a Moslem's prophet, next he's not (of course when it suit him). Obviously, the Muslims do not believe in your Jesus= son = father = "ghost"

And talking about this equation in relation to your assertion above; I guess you got it bad, cos it's obvious you are into some form of deceit and slight of hand.

How dare you boast about your abracadabra-ish twist of "Jesus" peacefulness & culpability, for:
if Jesus= son = father = "ghost"

then he is the following and more: 
    * Jesus was the king of war (Deuteronomy 20.11, 18)
   

Jesus was the king of the jews

AIRDIG:


)
    * Jesus practiced FORCE and uses evil spirit to torment people (1 Samuel 16:14)
   

Mark 1:21-28




Jesus and his disciples came to the town of Capernaum, and on the next Sabbath Jesus went to the synagogue and began to teach. The people who heard him were amazed at the way he taught , for the he wasn’t like the teachers of the Law; instead, he taught with authority.

Jesus then a man with an evil sprit came into the synagogue and screamed, “What do you want to with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Are you here to destroy us? I know who you are—you are God’s holy messenger!”

Jesus ordered the sprit, “Be quiet, and come out of the man!”

The evil sprit shook the man hard, gave alo[/b]ud scream, and came out of him. The people were all so amazed that the started saying to one another, “What is this? Is it some kind of new teaching? This man has authority to give orders to the evil sprits, and they obey him!”

And so the news about Jesus spread quickly everywhere in the province of Galilee.

AIRDIG:


    * Jesus is a [b]hater of the physically impaired (Lame, deaf, Blind) (Leviticus (21:16,24)
   

Mark1: 40-45




A man suffering from a dreaded skin disease came to Jesus, knelt down, and begged him for help. “If you want to, “ he said, “you can make me clean.”

Jesus was filled with pity, and reached out and touched him.

“I do want to, “ he answered. “Be clean!”

At once the disease left the man, and he was clean. Then Jesus spoke sternly to him and sent to him away at once, after saying to him, “Listen, don’t tell anyone about this. But go straight to the priest and let him examine you; then in order to prove to everyone that you are cued, offer the sacrifice that Moses ordered.”

But the man went away and began to spread the news everywhere. Indeed, he talked so much that Jesus could not go into a town publicly. Instead, he stayed out in lonely places, and people came to him from everywhere.



Mark 2: 1-12




A few days later Jesus went back to Capernaum, and the news spread that he was at home. So many people came together that there was no room left, not even out in front of the door. Jesus was preaching the message to them when four men arrived, carrying a paralyzed man to Jesus. Because of the crowd, however, they could not get the man to him. So they made a hole in the roof right above the place where Jesus was. When they had made an opening, they let the man down, lying on his mat. Seeing how much faith they had, Jesus said to the paralyzed man, “My son, your sins are forgiven.”

Some teachers of the Law who were sitting there thought to themselves. “How does he dare talk like this? This is blasphemy! God is the only one who can forgive sins!”

At once Jesus knew what they were thinking, so he said to them, “Why do you think such things? Is it easier to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, pick up your mat, and walk’?

I will prove to you, then, that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “I tell you, get up, pick up your mat, and go home!”

While they all watched, the man got up, picked up his mat, and hurried away. They were all completely amazed and paralyzed God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!


Matthew 9: 27-31

Jesus left that place, and as he walked along, two blind men started following him. “Have mercy on us, Son of David!” they shouted.

When Jesus had gone indoors, the two blind men came to him, and he asked them, “do you believe that I can heal you?” ”Yes, sir!” they answered.

Then Jesus toughed their eyes and said, “Let it happen, then, just as you believe!”—and their sight was restored. Jesus spoke sternly to them, “Don’t tell this to anyone!”

But they left and spread the news about Jesus all over that part of the country.

AIRDIG:



    *Jesus and his fellow warriors murdered thousands (Judges 1.2, 7).
   

Luke 7: 11-17




Soon afterward Jesus went to a town named Nain, accompanied by his disciples and a large crowd. Just as he arrived tat the gate of the town, a funeral procession was coming out. The dead man was the only son of a woman who was a widow, and a large crowd from the town was with her.

When the Lord saw her, his heart was filled with pity for her, and he said to her, “Don’t cry.” Then he walked over and touched the coffin, and the man carrying it stopped, Jesus said, “Young man! Get up, I tell you!” The dead man sat up and began to talk, and Jesus gave him back to his mother.

They all were filled with fear and praised God. “A great prophet has appeared among us!” they said; “God has come to save his people!”

This news about Jesus went out through all the country and the surrounding territory.



John 11: 43, 44


Raised Lazarus from the dead

After he had said this, he called out in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” He came out, his hands and feet wrapped in grave cloths, and with a cloth around his face. “Untie him, “ Jesus told them, “and let him go.”

AIRDIG:




    * Jesus was the king of war (Deuteronomy 20.11, 18)
    * Jesus disciples killed for the faith ((Judges 15.16)
    * Jesus promoted persecution against the "infidels"(2 Kings 10.19.30)
    * Jesus was the taker of life (Judges 11.29, 39)
    *Jesus and his fellow warriors murdered thousands (Judges 1.2, 7).
   
   

Matt26vsAnd, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out [his] hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Pls before you accuse prophet Muhammad (SAW) wrongly, why not do yourself a favour by finding out the truth from scholars.

Thanks for the decorum while it last (I guess we are improving)

Meanwhile, there's no need flogging the obvious. Since your basis is opposite mine (i.e Jesus = son=father="ghost" as shown below:

frosbel:

Was Jesus the GOD of the bible in the OLD Testament ?

toba:

We are comparing Jesus and Mohammad and not God and Mohammad.

SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT.

My post so far is neither to support nor against any faith. I only repudiate wilful falsehood and deliberate misinformation. I have been studying a lot of faith searching for the truth but how am I to trust what you belief if you tell lies about others' belief?

But without doubt, being a genuine seeker , I will certainly one day recognize the truth (whatever, wherever etc.) It lies within the omnipotence of God to bring any genuine seeker to the Truth via open mind.

God will lead any genuine seeker to God with or without the hypocritical lies & manipulations geared toward making other religion look evil.

Let seek clarification on things we don't understand about others' faith, rather than religion-bashing.
Stay blessed.

Should i then conclude that u erred by accusing Jesus/God of doing same atrocities done physically by mohammad? AIRDIG

@toba,

If by that, you are meant that Jesus is not God.

By the way, I am not here to win cheap argument, but rather as an opportunity to learn and not lied to.

Cheers

Doesnt still answer my question. Mohammad&Jesus as Jesus or Jesus as God.
Mohammad as an individual went to war killed&looted. Did jesus/God go to war as an individual to kill/loot? If Jesus/God didnt physical do that,then u erred by u calling Jesus/God a looter/warrior.

toba:

Mohammad as an individual went to war killed&looted. Did jesus/God go to war as an individual to kill/loot? If Jesus/God didnt physical do that,then u erred by u calling Jesus/God a looter/warrior.

according to your logic, since Osama did not physically commit suicide bombing, people erred by calling him Terrorist. Does this seem reasonable?

AIRDIG:

By the way, I am not here to win cheap argument, but rather as an opportunity to learn and not lied to.

I knew little about Islam b4 NL (circa. 2006). As a guest, I do visit this section to get enlightened, hear claims about the religions, then go in search of resources for clarification and independent studies. Most of the time, allegations about Islam always come off as uninformed & manipulated. The more the lies told; the more the truth I know.
“,  and what is elusive and deceptive resolves itself into crystal clearness. Our life is a long and arduous quest after Truth.” - Mahatma Gandhi

AIRDIG is currently studying The Book of Revelation(NT) & The Women(Quran, Ch. 4)

Re: Muhammad Versus Jesus Christ

[size=16pt]NO COMPARISON AT ALL!!! [/size]

I find ur post a bit illogical. Mohammad a man led war&commanded sam. Osama bin laden a man led battles even as an agent for american&till date hes the number one terrorist. Jesus a man, never led any war or Jesus was never quoted to have commanded anyone to go on any battle. Can u still compare Jesus with Mohammad/Osama?

AIRDIG:

according to your logic, since Osama did not physically commit suicide bombing, people erred by calling him Terrorist. Does this seem reasonable?

@May Kelly; « #52 on: Yesterday at 12:28:39 PM »

Re: Muhammad Versus Jesus Christ

NO COMPARISON AT ALL!!!

So if the yardstick is "war" and nothing else, Muhammad is like Moses. Jesus is unlike neither Muhammad nor Moses. Does this ring a bell of "I will raise up a prophet like you from their bretheren"? This christians always shoot themselves up. Even the corrupted Bible upholds Muhammad (AS) by Allah.


@toba; « #53 on: Yesterday at 09:29:01 PM »

I find your post a bit illogical. Mohammad a man led war&commanded sam. Osama bin laden a man led battles even as an agent for american&till date hes the number one terrorist. Jesus a man, never led any war or Jesus was never quoted to have commanded anyone to go on any battle. Can u still compare Jesus with Mohammad/Osama?

Though we read Jesus getting angry, even so that he overturn tables of the exchangers, called people fools, viper nations, dogs, and commanded his disciples to buy swords, the bazooka of his era if they do not have "bags". Thank you because what I see in your post is that Moses, David, Solomon, Aaron, Abraham and all the warriors of Bible personalities are like Muhammad, compared. Rather Muhammad is compared to Moses, but not Jesus. I will take that. Moses must have been a "good spirit from God" obeying every commandment from his Lord, including when comanded to wipe out nations and tribes. I will accept Muhammad, exactly like Moses.

@nuella2; « #34 on: April 16, 2010, 10:56 AM »

They are not to be compared. Jesus christ is THE WAY, THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER. HE IS NOT ONE OF THE WAYS.

Way meaning through him acceptance by God? So tell us is Jesus the way to those who escaped the flood of Noah with Noah in the boat and died following the "way" of Noah? What about the people who followed the "way" of Moses and never transgressed, say Aaron or Moses himself? What about Abraham, or Lot: is Jesus the "WAY" for them, too? What about his father "KIng david who killed Goliat"? Is Jesus the way for him, David too?

Do you people think at all? I know you dont have shame until you can think.

@nopuqeater

Even the corrupted Bible upholds Muhammad (AS) by Allah.    

Lol. Corrupted Bible, but you still use it to corroborate the thesis of Muhammads coming.  

Though we read Jesus getting angry, even so that he overturn tables of the exchangers

Why was Jesus getting angry is the question.

God is a thrice Holy God and his temple at the time which was physical was polluted with dubious so called religious leaders and people. It was turned into a business centre, gambling etc.

Jesus Christ was livid that the temple of God was made unclean by these acts but more importantly the very people God loved and wanted and still wants to save were mislead.

By the way he used no sword to behead the people or ask others to help him.

I can bet you, Muhammad would have beheaded THEM ALL !!

Thank you because what I see in your post is that Moses, David, Solomon, Aaron, Abraham and all the warriors of Bible personalities are like Muhammad, compared. Rather Muhammad is compared to Moses, but not Jesus. I will take that. Moses must have been a "good spirit from God" obeying every commandment from his Lord, including when comanded to wipe out nations and tribes. I will accept Muhammad, exactly like Moses.

God forbid, they were never like Muhammad in anyway.

They fought battles against ungodly people and ungodliness within the context of Israel and there was never any call for them to conquer the world for God. Unlike Muhammad there were no despoils, Compromises with the pagans , Toture or Robberies.

You have to understand that Muhammad was first and foremost a warrior, he believed that Islam could only be spread by WAR or deceptive peaceful Jihad.

Muhammad as the records show was a chronic Liar and the Quran was simply a book that permitted his life style based on Lust, anger, vengance and war.

Way meaning through him acceptance by God? So tell us is Jesus the way to those who escaped the flood of Noah with Noah in the boat and died following the "way" of Noah? What about the people who followed the "way" of Moses and never transgressed, say Aaron or Moses himself? What about Abraham, or Lot: is Jesus the "WAY" for them, too? What about his father "KIng david who killed Goliat"? Is Jesus the way for him, David too?

They are all saved by faith in a righteous God and all demonstrated their faith and hope in God by living in accordance with the fact that God is a righteous judge of all the earth. They were friends of God, live as pilgrims and were looking for a city whose foundation and architect is God.

Then God came and be with them or walk with them and talked to them about salvation. To Adam & Eve, it was the seed of the woman; to Abraham, it was the stars of the heaven which cannot be numbered. To Noah, it was the ark. Noah believed God and therefore he built it eventhough it took I believe tremendous resources, time and energy. To Enoch, God told him of the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus, with myraids of angels to execute judgment (Jude 14).

@Frosbel; « #39 on: April 16, 2010, 03:48 PM »  

@nopuqeater

Muslims have been told that Jesus predicted the coming of Mohammad. If one looks at the context of what Jesus said, one can see that he meant someone else.

Muslims are told that the Comforter to come that Jesus promised was Mohammad. Let us see what Jesus really said.

Who is the Comforter that Jesus promised?

Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Summary of this part:

1. the Comforter will abide with them “forever.” Mohammad did not live then, and could not do this – be with them. Now that he has come and gone, he is not with anyone forever.

Good arguments are wasted on nonthinker(s). First is Jesus abiding with you, still, since he is not here? If he abides, it is through his word preserved "in the Gospel". Same thing with Muhammad "The Quran revealed to him" and "his Sunnah/Hadith". Since you are claiming that the comforter is the "Ghost" tell me how is the Ghost abiding forever since then?  You must be considering that even the audience "the disciples" who were supposed to actually be around when Jesus returns are all gone. Jesus has not returned as promised. And no records of anything said to the "Disciples" by the Ghost. The comforter was supposed to hear and was supposed to say exactly what he heard to "Jesus' audience". Where is a single word of this, even as I would hope you will show a "Big Book" full of it?

2. The Comforter is the Holy Ghost, not a man, who will “teach all things.” No man knows “all things,” only God.

Thank God that it is God and not man that knows all things. So the man Jesus did not know all things with the very proof from his lips according to the Bible; I Jesus do not know the time of the hour.
We read also that the "Holy Ghost" (just to be consistent with you, even though you are not consistent, just like the Bible, but whatever you say is enough to disproof you), is coming from God as a messenger to hear and repeat all that he hears. God knows everything and He is the Teacher to all things. Will it be impossible that God is able to teach the "Comforter/Holy ghost" to all things, so that he can just teach it to the audience exactly? By the way, if your argument is that the Holy Ghost is God, who the heck is Jesus to send God the Holy Ghost errant? How is God the father sending Himself as Holy Ghost errant? Again, what did the Ghost teach of all things? List just one. And how do you know what he taught, except you can show it from his book that must be preserved, unless you can tell me where this Holy Ghost is gonna teach today, so that I can find a way to hear part of the all things? It has been 2000 years plus since jesus made this promise; so show me the book of the Ghost, otherwise Jesus is incorrect, or you are a liar and am right that Muhammad (AS) is the Comforter and its not some silly ghost that has no single record, anywhere.

3. The Comforter is a Spirit of Truth. Mohammad was a man, not a spirit.

From your Bibe, Jesus was accorded to litmus a false prophet with a spirit that is not from God because of his statement does not come to pass. Prophet of God as Spirit from God because what he says all come to pass, at its time. From this I see Muhammad as a Spirit from God, a prophet, a human being able to talk, teach, repeat exactly what he hears; Surah Najm.

If I use Jesus own words to litmus him as a spirit from God, he will fail according to the Bible because his another comforter has no record of coming to the audience, the disciples who were to hear the comforter. Thats one part. Another part is that Jesus said that he will return in the generation of the disciples. I am sorry to shock you, all the disciples are dead and Jesus has not returned. There is ton of unfulfilled statements from Jesus, your god, your only way.

4. Jesus had to leave so that the Comforter could come. That implied he was coming soon after Jesus left. Also, Jesus said that HE was sending the Comforter. Mohammad never claimed that Jesus sent him.

Jesus said he will come back even soon enough that the disciples will still be around. Did he come back as he promised? No. It tells you that it is either Biblical jesus was not telling the truth or somebody doctored what he said about the another comforter, etc,

But then, if it is the disciples that will receive the Comforter, now how is the comforter going to remind as if to correct the disciples of what Jesus recently said to them? Were they so porous in their brain that nothing was retained, even that short a time? Was the comforter performing some part of his duties and leaving other part still unfulfilled? Where is the rational in that and where is the record of what your Ghost said to the quick to forget disciples?

The disciples are to wait for the “promise” in Jerusalem.

If Jesus promise was true, he would have returned even before the last disciple died. That would proven a fulfilment of "promise", except that you people are throwning darts in the dark hoping to hit the bullseye.

Luk 24:49 And, behold, I [Jesus] send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Initially, it was God the father that will send the Ghost. Then it was Jesus the son. From the above, where is the holy ghost mentioned as the reason for going to Jerusalem. Where is the record of what the holy ghost said to the disciples?

Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he [Jesus] was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

Wow. Am looking for overt statement that look disciples hurry to Jerusalem where you will receive the COMFORTER. Is not here, frosbel.

Summary of this part:

1. The “coming” of the Comforter occurred in Jerusalem. That is not where Mohammad was when he felt “called.”

the two verses you used to argue failed you. Comforter was not mentioned in either as reason to go to Jerusalem. Further, Muhammad was in Jerusalem on Isra wa Miraj journey. Go ask or research the Dome of the Rock and Masjid Aqsa. Muhammad was in both, a clearly Islamic sites.

2. The disciples were waiting and expecting the Comforter in about 33 AD. They could not wait until the 500s AD for Mohammad, because they could not live that long.

It a good thing that you said that you mentioned the timing here. We see therefore that only liars among you christians, if I follow your statement will say they are receieving the "Holy Ghost" today, because it was supposed to be for the disciples, alone. Funny that even the Ghost is not even abiding with you forever, except that the devil is deceiving yoy as the holy spirit, if we take your argument from what you said of the time given by Jesus.

Now, answer these for me; Where is the "record" of what the Ghost taught, where is the ghost since he is supposed to abide forever. what did the ghost hear and how did he say it that the audience the disciples heard? Did Jesus return at the time of the disciples, or he failed to fulfill his own promise?

3. The promise would give them power.

you are dispeakable liar. Show me, the verse of empowering the disciples?

When did the Comforter come?

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Pentecoast, is what Jesus promised? Is that some Jewish already established date or jesus created this? We will see if the event happened in just as Jesus said; Were only the 12 disciples of jesus present? Meaning Judas Iscariot was among them and no other persons? If this is not the case, the Biblical Jesus or the writers or the event and comforter verses lied. And you frosbel swallowed an obvious lie.

Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

The Comforter, was to speak, teach, remind, correct obvious lies that may have entered so quickly. How did the audience hear what he said words that he heard? Was this in Ghostly format, or should he be human. Can all of the functions be fulfilled in a single event, when Jesus his "BOSS" preached for 3 yaers, yet needed another comforter to teach even new things? Are you not reading your Bible? How long do I have to teach you?

Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

I am laughing aloud. Is this the way Jesus said his "another Comforter" will teach and speak out what he heard to the 12 disciples? Are you lying along with the writers or was Jesus part of the game, too, when we read him say "he will speak, teach, reminds, glorifies"? How did your fire thingy accomplished this?

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

What was said in that "other tongues"? I think the christians have their second "Tower of babel" confusion. Please show us record of what was said that could accomplish the teach, remind, etc of what the Comforter was to do? How can these strange tongues be understood by the simple minded easily forgetting porous headed disciples? I want to read your defense.

Summary of this part:

1. Jesus died at Passover. He appeared after his resurrection 3 days later, and was with them about 30 days. He then ascended into heaven. Pentecost occurs about 45 days after Passover.

The jury is still out about the 3 days. But thats not my argument. In 15 days you are saying that the disciples who hung around Jesus for 3 years needed to be reminded of what Jesus said? Was he such a terrible teacher? Read the qalitative function of Another Comforter for a minute and reconcle it with what you said above.

2. The disciples were given the power of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy ghost as the spirit of trust was not supposed to relinquish his power to them, according to Jesus. He was to come as a teacher to teach. He was to come as a siprit of truth from God hearing and repeating what he heard. He was to be a reminder as he reminded of what Jesus actually said instead of what somebody says Jesus said. He was to be a glorifier, as he would glorify Jesus, that he was not a bastard, son of a prostitute, did not die as the jesus would have preferred because his soul would have been accured according to the rules of the children of Israel. He was admonish as he will admonish liars who wanted to idolise him as God that he was a human prophet messenger of God.

Mohammad, again, could not have come at this time, and he gave no supernatural power to anyone.

Just like Jesus dis not come as he promised, I summit that this proofs that the timie in the Bible is incorect. Jesus did not give any supernatural power, since he said what he did people who believed in his message will even do greater. So tell me, who did greater among the christian? That person would have been better than Jesus. The Holy Ghost of Pentecoat did not give anyone supernatural power, otherwise he willbe higher than Jesus and you guys say he is his errant boy. But if he had given supernatural power, then what you will have is that the receivers will be at least as powerful as Jesus? Who is that powerful, among the Christians?

The Promise of the Comforter was fulfilled 2000 years ago when the Holy Ghost came to the disciples in Jerusalem.

What did he teach? How did he speak? Even the not so eloquent Moses spoke. ANd not always through Aaron.

Your ghost; tell me what did the Ghost say? Where can I read it? Jesus Book is the Gospel. The disciples have The ACTS, less Paul. Even Paul the imposter has the Epistles. Show me what the Ghost have? GIve me one thing he taught. Anything. Anywhere. Anyway.

@nopuqeater

You remind me of the Jehovah's Witnesses , endless arguements.   

Abeg make I go enjoy my Sunday.

Trust me , I will respond your points later or tomorrow.

Have a nice weekend !

@Frosbel: « #56 on: Today at 01:08:59 PM »  

@nopuqeater

Quote
Even the corrupted Bible upholds Muhammad (AS) by Allah.    

Lol. Corrupted Bible, but you still use it to corroborate the thesis of Muhammads coming.[/quote}Allah says that Muhammad is mentioned in the Books revealed before Quran. Also that the people know Muhammad as they know their own children. Now as to Corruption; 100% curruption is worse than 99% corruption. I did not say that the Bibe is 100% corrupt, the reason we able to see that God is One. Even Jesus is reported to say that God is One, his own Lord God the Creator. Read if not anything else, what he yelled out on the Cross, accordingly. It is my God, my God.  

Quote
Though we read Jesus getting angry, even so that he overturn tables of the exchangers

Why was Jesus getting angry is the question.

Thats not the question or the argument. You guys say that he was peaceful, and I just showed that he was pretty pived. Angry man he was, with the disbelievers. Or will you say that he loed their ways, happy that they were disbelievers? Argue intelligently, please.

God is a thrice Holy God and his temple at the time which was physical was polluted with dubious so called religious leaders and people. It was turned into a business centre, gambling etc.

Jesus Christ was livid that the temple of God was made unclean by these acts but more importantly the very people God loved and wanted and still wants to save were mislead.

Ridiculous argument. Was he more peaceful than say Zachariah? He was angry so stop fronting. You lack honesty. Your lies will not fly here.

By the way he used no sword to behead the people or ask others to help him.

I can bet you, Muhammad would have beheaded THEM ALL !!

John did not fight anyone, though he was beheaded. Moses fought and killed even animals. Moses and Muhammad would have done the same, while jesus will never be a memeber of their illustrous group. Though Jesus asked people to buy Swords. Two at least were purchase turning the people to people with only the cloth on their back. I wonder why a person will sell all his belonging except he wanted to die? If you are going to survive, you will not sell all your belongings.

Quote
Thank you because what I see in your post is that Moses, David, Solomon, Aaron, Abraham and all the warriors of Bible personalities are like Muhammad, compared. Rather Muhammad is compared to Moses, but not Jesus. I will take that. Moses must have been a "good spirit from God" obeying every commandment from his Lord, including when comanded to wipe out nations and tribes. I will accept Muhammad, exactly like Moses.

God forbid, they were never like Muhammad in anyway.

Empty prayer. Which god; the son or the ghost or the father? You dont even have the gut to choose one? Where did Moses differ from Muhammad, when both of them were warriors?

They fought battles against ungodly people and ungodliness within the context of Israel and there was never any call for them to conquer the world for God. Unlike Muhammad there were no despoils, Compromises with the pagans , Toture or Robberies.

Frosbel, I dont know how you think, but didnt Moses etc killed humans and animals and even cutdown trees in some instances all the way from across the sea to the promised land? Ungodliness within the context of Israel? Are you saying that Godliness efforts belongs to Israel alone, when you are not even a jew or is christianity a form of Judaism, and your church is a form of synagogue or Jewish Temple?Conquering of the world is relative because the world to Moses was eastward pf Egypt which he centered on Jerusalem. They are still fighting to rid it of palestinians, Christians and Muslims, etc once and for all. Are you people have human emotion or you are just human form, only.

You have to understand that Muhammad was first and foremost a warrior, he believed that Islam could only be spread by WAR or deceptive peaceful Jihad.

What I know is that for 13 years, the Makka period. there was not a single war or battle. First 2 years in Madina there was no war either. THis is what Muhammad and his followers were first and foremost. The Yorubas say that Omoale ni ki nbinu; Only a bastard will never get upset, or stirred up enough to effort of defending himself. Muslims have to fight for their survivals in 8 years. In the 8 years, in the battle of Uhud, the disbeleievers had upperhand and killed Muslims as much as Allah allowed them in the testing of the Muslims. Think man.

Muhammad as the records show was a chronic Liar and the Quran was simply a book that permitted his life style based on Lust, anger, vengance and war.[/quite]Your statement lacks merits. A cronic liar would not have told anyone about Surah Abasa, or the issue marrying Zaynab the exwife of Zayd ibn Thabit (ra to both people). I wonder what life Muhammad lived that was extravagant; was the dying poor part of it, or having only a daughter surving him without a son? What anger and vengeance when he did not kill anyone when Makka fell, or killed the Jewish woman who confessed poisioning him?
 

[quote]« #57 on: Today at 01:17:49 PM »  
Quote
Way meaning through him acceptance by God? So tell us is Jesus the way to those who escaped the flood of Noah with Noah in the boat and died following the "way" of Noah? What about the people who followed the "way" of Moses and never transgressed, say Aaron or Moses himself? What about Abraham, or Lot: is Jesus the "WAY" for them, too? What about his father "KIng david who killed Goliat"? Is Jesus the way for him, David too?

They are all saved by faith in a righteous God and all demonstrated their faith and hope in God by living in accordance with the fact that God is a righteous judge of all the earth. They were friends of God, live as pilgrims and were looking for a city whose foundation and architect is God.

My problem is that you cancelled out "Work or deed", which will imply that Mussollini, Hitler, or any and all "Christians with "FAITH" is/are destined for paradise by just the faith. Does this make any sense? SO work is 0% in this matter of your type of success?

Then God came and be with them or walk with them and talked to them about salvation. To Adam & Eve, it was the seed of the woman; to Abraham, it was the stars of the heaven which cannot be numbered. To Noah, it was the ark. Noah believed God and therefore he built it eventhough it took I believe tremendous resources, time and energy. To Enoch, God told him of the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus, with myraids of angels to execute judgment (Jude 14).

Did you read how jesus was not the way in every situation, but God was? I will leave your convoluted thought above to those who will read it. If this is Christianity, Alhamdulillah it is not my religion. If I were a Christian, I will ask questions, and ask God Almight Creator to guide me. I am certain that I will get out of it as soon as possible, if I was led to believe that jesus is the Only WAy, and I see Abraham not needing Jesus. If I was told that the Bible is word of God and I see Paul's personal opinion, etc. Thats just a start of the untrue.

[/quote]

@Frosbel: « #59 on: Today at 02:55:56 PM »

@nopuqeater

You remind me of the Jehovah's Witnesses , endless arguements.

Abeg make I go enjoy my Sunday.

Trust me , I will respond your points later or tomorrow.

Have a nice weekend !

When a person says trust me, such a person like you, I watch out for his "bulldung" drowning me. PLease run away from me as the Jehovah's Witneses do run away when the hit is put on them. Typical. Good riddens.

Allah says that Muhammad is mentioned in the Books revealed before Quran.

No Muhammad is not mentioned in the BIBLE , another LIE

Also that the people know Muhammad as they know their own children.

LOL.

Now as to Corruption; 100% curruption is worse than 99% corruption. I did not say that the Bibe is 100% corrupt,

confusion !


You Muslims repeatedly claim that the Bible has been corrupted and that the Qu'ran is the only trustworthy scripture in existence. This is why Muslims often attack the Bible. But this cannot be acording to the Quran. The Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the gospel were all given by God.

Torah - "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (Sura 2:87).1

Psalms - "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163).

Gospel - "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).

Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).

We see that the Qu'ran states that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel were all given by God. With this we Christians heartily agree. But, the Muslims claim that the Bible is corrupted and full of contradictions. If that is so, then it would seem they do not believe the Qu'ran since the Qu'ran says that the Word of God cannot be altered:

"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).

"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115).


"For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity," (10:64).


When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu'ran from Allah. This means that at that time the Bible, which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu'ran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is "When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?"

thats not the question or the argument. You guys say that he was peaceful, and I just showed that he was pretty pived. Angry man he was, with the disbelievers. Or will you say that he loed their ways, happy that they were disbelievers? Argue intelligently, please.

Jesus did not exhibit vindictive, hateful and vengeful anger like Muhammd.

Jesus Christ exhibited the anger of God against all injustice, sin and wickedness,

John did not fight anyone, though he was beheaded

And your point is ?

Moses fought and killed even animals.

Childish arguement. Do we not all kill animals everyday, lol.

Though Jesus asked people to buy Swords. Two at least were purchase turning the people to people with only the cloth on their back. I wonder why a person will sell all his belonging except he wanted to die? If you are going to survive, you will not sell all your belongings

.


Clearly, Jesus knew that two swords would not be enough to hold off a Roman legion, so we must take his response as highly ironic not as straight forward. Either he says ironically “oh that will be plenty”, or more likely as I have suggested, he means “that will be enough” of this foolishness.
Either way, there is absolutely no endorsement here by Jesus of his followers using weapons. Carrying weapons makes them fulfill the role of transgressors, as the citation of Is. 53.12 makes evident.

Empty prayer. Which god; the son or the ghost or the father? You dont even have the gut to choose one? Where did Moses differ from Muhammad, when both of them were warriors?

Muhammad cannot even compare to Moses talk less of Jesus.

1.Muhammad robbed 
Moses never robbed


2.Muahmmad was arrogant
Moses was humble


3.Muhammad lied
Moses told the truth


4.Muahmmad raped women
Moses never raped


5.Muhammad worshipped idols
Moses worshipped the one and true God Yahweh


Many more reasons.



Please watch video below


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itn8r4JXA-g&hl=en[/flash]

Ungodliness within the context of Israel? Are you saying that Godliness efforts belongs to Israel alone, when you are not even a jew or is christianity a form of Judaism, and your church is a form of synagogue or Jewish Temple?Conquering of the world is relative because the world to Moses was eastward pf Egypt which he centered on Jerusalem. They are still fighting to rid it of palestinians, Christians and Muslims, etc once and for all. Are you people have human emotion or you are just human form, only.

Rubbish.


It is recorded clearly in the scriptures of the bible that conversion is my prayer and persuasion, not my murder, pilage and rape.

What I know is that for 13 years, the Makka period. there was not a single war or battle. First 2 years in Madina there was no war either. THis is what Muhammad and his followers were first and foremost. The Yorubas say that Omoale ni ki nbinu; Only a naughty person will never get upset, or stirred up enough to effort of defending himself. Muslims have to fight for their survivals in 8 years. In the 8 years, in the battle of Uhud, the disbeleievers had upperhand and killed Muslims as much as Allah allowed them in the testing of the Muslims. Think man.

Muhammad did not fight initially because he was inferior in military might, once he became superior he even attacked those who helped him. Double crosser.

A cronic liar would not have told anyone about Surah Abasa, or the issue marrying Zaynab the exwife of Zayd ibn Thabit (ra to both people). I wonder what life Muhammad lived that was extravagant; was the dying poor part of it, or having only a daughter surving him without a son?

"Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225

"Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty." Surah 16: 106

Allah has said in the Quran:
17:59:“And We refrain from sending the Signs, only because the men of the former generations treated them as false: We sent the She-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).”

What anger and vengeance when he did not kill anyone when Makka fell, or killed the Jewish woman who confessed poisioning him

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory."

Tabari IX:82 "The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them."

Muhammad was a violent man,

@nopuqeater


1. The tradition tells us that the Qur'an was revealed as al-ahruf al-saba3a right ?

2. Then we are told that it is revealed in lughat qurish right? then what are these al-ahruf al-sab3a and why does it say in the Cairo Qur'an in surat al-fatiha maalki (the onwer of) and in the Tunisian Qur'an mailki (or the king of) and do you think that this very example proves that the whole thing about the Uthman codex is no more than another bogus qissa by the ulama?

After all we either have one reading or not and by the way did Abul Qasim hear it as maliki or maaliki mr ignorant ? It cannot be both and in Allah's lawh mahfooz is it maliki or maaliki or does Allah has seven readings of the Qur'an but if so then we only have one reading which means that the Qur'an has been corrupted

3. Then we are told that al-mushaf al-3uthmani is the one we have today and that he burned the other huruf right? more evidence here is that no other than the little fascist Ibn Taymiyya said that: mushaf 3uthman ahad al-huruf al-sab3a. Oh the Arabic? . He also said that al-huruf al-sab3a inahum lughat wa lahjat and let me guess one of them must have been Syriac

What a fadiha (or scandal) and do you know what this means? It means that the Qur'an has been really corrupted because we are left with one reading and the others were burnt or eaten by a hungry goat

4. And here is your bonus for today: Then which mushaf is really the one allah has in his little library or al-lawh al-mahfooz? and how do you know that it was not one the al-ahruf that were burnt or eaten by a hungry goat?

The collection of the Qur'an a no more than a joke