businesscitadel:

And you are being asked, how are you not sure that same creator was not created by another entity or a group of entities?

because he promised me an everlasting life after I returned to him. And a temporary created being can't promised me that.

tintingz:
What makes God not a created being?

.

tintingz:
I've known God from my childhood but you know what, I was believing in imaginary entities.

You can keep believing in an imaginary entity or believed what you want. But you know you have no control over your life. A simply example if nature calls you must answer. And please decide for your self when to sleep and when to Wake up.

mukhtara446:
because he promised me an everlasting life after I returned to him. And a temporary created being can't promised me that.

This is ridiculous.
1. Many religions also believe this promise of everlasting life by their own version of their god. How are we to confirm that your own is the real deal and not theirs?

2. How are we not sure it's not your mind playing you tricks about promises or voices you hear in your head like an insane person? How do we know you are not just regurgitating what your Imams and Quranic texts say?

3. You mentioned that this Allah/god is a "he", Where did you get this idea from? Have you seen this entity to know that it is a "he"?

Annnonymous:


I'll tell you what i believe.

Allah is the most high, creator of all things.

He created you and everyone/everything, and that is why you have limited knowledge, limited understanding.

If you have the answers to the question you're asking, then nothing differentiates you from him, and that is why you'll never get the answers, neither will the greatest scientist, even in a million years to come.

Religion is about faith, trust, and if you're incapable of believing the existence of Allah without questioning, then you'll never be a muslim.

I'm not asking you to change your view, I'm simply telling you what i believe.

I'd rather live my life as a believer, then die to see there is no God(which is impossible), than to live like there is no God, only to die to see there is.

Islam, when practiced the right way shapes your way of life, makes you righteous, kind, peaceful and tolerant. I'd rather spend my (very short) time in this life this way, than to be an atheist and miss the chance to live like this, simply because i feel i wont be held accountable.

Two questions,

# If Allah has answers to everything and knows everything, why didn't he put end to evil and natural disasters?

# Must I be a Muslim before I could know what's right and wrong?

mukhtara446:
You can keep believing in an imaginary entity or believed what you want. But you know you have no control over your life. A simply example if nature calls you must answer. And please decide for your self when to sleep and when to Wake up.

You have no control of your life either, well flying spaghetti monster is controlling it.

businesscitadel:


This is ridiculous.
1. Many religions also believe this promise of everlasting life by their own version of their god. How are we to confirm that your own is the real deal and not theirs?

2. How are we not sure it's not your mind playing you tricks about promises or voices you hear in your head like an insane person? How do we know you are not just regurgitating what your Imams and Quranic texts say?

3. You mentioned that this Allah/god is a "he", Where did you get this idea from? Have you seen this entity to know that it is a "he"?

I don't followed any religion. But I have a way of life that I believed in, its called " submission" Its a personal choice that I made. I said God is a he in a manner of language that he talk about himself. I get it from a book that he revealed for those that need to be guided.

Rashduct4luv:


Where's the logic in his post? Are you reading with your ears? Someone asked who created God? Is God Created? Even if you tell him the creator of the creator, he will keep repeating "who created that creator" where is the sense in this?

Do You still accept everything must have a cause?

businesscitadel:

Says the Muslim who believes in a mythical god idea that was conjured up by Mo' himself. Kikiki

You are laughing for a thing that you should just cry about. I just feel sorry for you, You have No Purpose, No Hope , No Guidance. You are just empty. I really admired your courage that your still alive.

tintingz:
You have no control of your life either, well flying spaghetti monster is controlling it.

I have No Control but I have purpose to live that comes with hope. And a choice to make every minutes of my life.

tintingz:
Two questions,

# If Allah has answers to everything and knows everything, why didn't he put end to evil and natural disasters?

# Must I be a Muslim before I could know what's right and wrong?

Read my post again, carefully this time, you'll get my view of the answer to your first question.

For your second question, No, you don't have to be a Muslim to know what is right and wrong. Please understand my stand, I'm not arguing with you like the others, i'm simply making you see reasons why it wont be so easy for you to convince any Muslim to think otherwise about the existence of God.

To you be your path, and to me be mine.

mukhtara446:
I have No Control but I have purpose to live that comes with hope. And a choice to make every minutes of my life.

It's good to have comfort on imaginary things, religion is part of it.

tintingz:
It's good to have comfort on imaginary things, religion is part of it.

Can you tell me why are you here, was your purpose in this life, did you created yourself, are you sure you will be awake tomorrow morning

tintingz:
how far oga.

nothing far. I dropped my kalam already. You have made up your mind. I have given you analogies but they entered your deaf ears.

The only thing left is Allah's Rahaman to open your chest or eternal demnation. What you are doing it saying is not new. Nomrusu or Nimrod did similar until he faced torment of his Creator. If Allah loves you He Himself will make Himself known to you by whichever way He wants. He may also leave you to yourself by giving you respite until appointed time. If this should be the case, it is not gonna be pretty afterwards bcuz these conversations are recorded by malaikat and will be presented to you on that Day. You will recognize it and will be evidence against you.

tintingz:
Two questions,

# If Allah has answers to everything and knows everything, why didn't he put end to evil and natural disasters?

# Must I be a Muslim before I could know what's right and wrong?

To your second questions in whom definition are you going to know was wrong and was right, was wrong to you might be right to someone. But in Islam we have our wrong and right, if you did something right but in Islam its wrong then As a Muslim you are wrong By Islamic definition. So to you're question Yes you must be a Muslim to know was wrong and right.

Annnonymous:


Read my post again, carefully this time, you'll get my view of the answer to your first question.

For your second question, No, you don't have to be a Muslim to know what is right and wrong. Please understand my stand, I'm not arguing with you like the others, i'm simply making you see reasons why it wont be so easy for you to convince any Muslim to think otherwise about the existence of God.

To you be your path, and to me be mine.

Ofcos it's not easy to convince someone who has been indoctrinated from childhood.

mukhtara446:
Can you tell me why are you here, was your purpose in this life, did you created yourself, are you sure you will be awake tomorrow morning

# I choose what I want and my purpose in life, I don't need a book to dictate that to me.

# Evolution has told us how we came to be.

# No one knows what tomorrow is even you, so I wonder why you asked this question.

mukhtara446:
To your second questions in whom definition are you going to know was wrong and was right, was wrong to you might be right to someone. But in Islam we have our wrong and right, if you did something right but in Islam its wrong then As a Muslim you are wrong By Islamic definition. So to you're question Yes you must be a Muslim to know was wrong and right.

Let me make you reason.

What you see as right in Islam can be wrong to me and other people, right and wrong are relative although the concept of right and wrong are universal.

E.g 1. The Quran command men to beat thier disobedient wife, this is right to Muslims or taken to be right by Muslim but this is totally wrong to me for someone to beat a grown up woman, that's domestic violence.

2. Islam command adulterers to be beaten and stoned to death, this is right to Muslims but totally wrong to me, adultery is between two adults, the affected spouse should simply file for divorce.

3 Islam command gays to be killed, This is right to Muslims but wrong to me, it's wrong to kill humans because of thier sexual orientation that's not their choice, nor can be explain. Killing is not the solution.

4. Islam command apostates to be killed, this is right to Muslims but this is totally wrong to me, people should have freedom to choose what they want to believe in.

I can go on and on.

Humans naturally have the ability to know what's right and wrong, your empathy should tell you what's right and wrong.

What's empathy?

* empathy

the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

If you put yourself as a victim of a killer then you should know killing someone is wrong.

Using religion for your morality or goodness is not something that comes from your own self but from fear of Hell.

Empiree:
nothing far. I dropped my kalam already. You have made up your mind. I have given you analogies but they entered your deaf ears.

The only thing left is Allah's Rahaman to open your chest or eternal demnation. What you are doing it saying is not new. Nomrusu or Nimrod did similar until he faced torment of his Creator. If Allah loves you He Himself will make Himself known to you by whichever way He wants. He may also leave you to yourself by giving you respite until appointed time. If this should be the case, it is not gonna be pretty afterwards bcuz these conversations are recorded by malaikat and will be presented to you on that Day. You will recognize it and will be evidence against you.

Do you believe you're going to Christian hell or punished by Yahweh?

tintingz:
Do you believe you're going to Christian hell or punished by Yahweh?

There is nothing called "christian hell"

Empiree:
There is nothing called "christian hell"

So which hell will non-christians go?

mukhtara446:
You are laughing for a thing that you should just cry about. I just feel sorry for you, Y[b]ou have No Purpose, No Hope , No Guidance.[/b] You are just empty. I really admired your courage that your still alive.

Kikiki, another bunch of ridiculous statements.

1. Mr. Purpose, what is your own purpose? To slam your head five times to the ground everyday in the name of praying to an imaginary being. You should be feeling sorry for yourself. My purpose is to live this life as I deem it enjoyable for me and those I come across and not to behave like a robot.

2. You talk about hope. So far all I have seen the religion you practice bring is hatred,intolerance, killings, poverty e.t.c thereby rendering innocent people hopeless. If that is what you call hope, biko take it back. I am not interested.

3. Guidance... Wisdom from my elders, who by the way are not imaginary, are/were more than enough to take me through in life. I do not need guidance from a religion that believe drinking raw camel piss is healthy. Once again, you should feel more sorry for yourself.

tintingz:
This is pleading.

What exist outside the universe cannot interven in this universe and if it does it/he/she has limit himself/herself to this universe, we don't know what's outside the universe yet and we can't imagine what's outside the universe, meaning it's NOTHING to us!

It is silly of you to say since we do not know what is outside the universe, then it is nothing, when in the same breath, you claim science is progressive and would give answers to everything! To help you understand your folly, quantum vacuum which is said to be "nothing" is said to contain unseen particles which does influence the physical realm, a recent study has claimed to be able to observe the fluctuations of this "nothingness" albeit needs corroboration. You sure are very confused, and I dare say, if this level of reasoning was what led you to atheism, then you have a bigger problem to resolve, instead of trying to disprove God's existence!

tintingz:

But your God created matter and energy right, where did that come from? Your God knows the future, reason, plan etc are all these not bound and eslave to time? Time only exist in this universe so your God is eslave to this universe. Your perfect God even has the TIME to give divine laws for what he created.

If the creator is not part of everything, then...

* He's Nothing

* Everything doesn't have a creator or a cause e.g Fairies, Olorun, Odin, Brahma, Unicorn, FSM, Allah etc.

Do you know that the invention of man called computer operates in binary?! It uses electric impulses to represent 1 and 0 which man was able to create solely for the computer, is man therefore enslaved to 1 and 0s?! Can we say man must also operate as a computer even though the computer does carry out similar logical task and exhibits some human characteristics?! does this make sense to you?! Bro, use your brain na, these things are basic, you don't need to claim one logic or higher reasoning, they are very simple to comprehend and that is why the concept of God is universal!

tintingz:

A-Z is just an example of it, I can use any other form.

The cyclic model is part of physics and cosmological theory.

You have not answered my questions!

tintingz:

Actually I've watched the full video, Dawkins was not the joke.

Is Allah something or nothing?

Allah (SWT) is something "mysterious"

Are you sure you got the joke in the first instance?!

tintingz:

I responded then that I've no problem with existing of an author(as long as it's proven) the problem you're yet to accept or tell me is, what cause/move this author to exist and write?

Please answer and let move on.

What other prove do you want when you have seen the book?! Is the book not enough to conclude that there is an author?!

Answer this and we will definitely move on!

tintingz:
So which hell will non-christians go?

Hell is hell. Quran gives names of them but they are the same thing with different grades. It is called Jaheem, Jahannam, Lazaa, al-Sa’eer, Saqar, al-Hatamah and al-Haawiyah, according to its various characteristics.

Anyone deemed to abide in Hell goes to the same Hell created by Allah. There is nothing like "muslim hell or christian Hell". Thats sarcasm we use during debate. There are of course other names that i dont know.

sino:


It is silly of you to say since we do not know what is outside the universe, then it is nothing, when in the same breath, you claim science is progressive and would give answers to everything! To help you understand your folly, quantum vacuum which is said to be "nothing" is said to contain unseen particles which does influence the physical realm, a recent study has claimed to be able to observe the fluctuations of this "nothingness" albeit needs corroboration. You sure are very confused, and I dare say, if this level of reasoning was what led you to atheism, then you have a bigger problem to resolve, instead of trying to disprove God's existence!

Did you read my post well? you forgot the "yet" i added there?

here what i posted.

What exist outside the universe cannot interven in this universe and if it does it/he/she has limit himself/herself to this universe, we don't know what's outside the universe yet and we can't imagine what's outside the universe, meaning it's NOTHING to us!

"Yet" there means now, in the future science may give answers to everything or not, but right now we dont know for sure what is outside the universe, it is nothing to our imagination.

Quantum vacuum contains lowest energy, does Allah has lowest energy or generates lowest energy? does Allah function like the particles? Like i said you're trying to turn Allah into another thing. Using deist argument will ridicule your Allah.

I am about to understand more about quantum vacuum, starting from Lawrence Krauss book(A Universe from nothing).

Do you know that the invention of man called computer operates in binary?! It uses electric impulses to represent 1 and 0 which man was able to create solely for the computer, is man therefore enslaved to 1 and 0s?! Can we say man must also operate as a computer even though the computer does carry out similar logical task and exhibits some human characteristics?! does this make sense to you?! Bro, use your brain na, these things are basic, you don't need to claim one logic or higher reasoning, they are very simple to comprehend and that is why the concept of God is universal!

Is this computer perfect?

If an inventor sit, talk, get angry, feel emotional, loving, partial, reason, plan e.t.c and the computer posses these characteristics, it shows the inventor is limited and bound/eslave to this, Even the bible confessed God made man in his own image. This is why it is called a personal God(anthropomorphic).

You have not answered my questions!

SMH, There is no first cause or what came first in cyclic model.

Allah (SWT) is something "mysterious"

The universe is also something mysterious, Leprechaun, Olorun, Odin, FSM, Brahma, Santa, Unicorn, Fairies, invisible giant teapot are all something mysterious.

Infact since Allah is part of 'something' mysterious then there is a higher mysterious cause, something must cause something right?

Are you sure you got the joke in the first instance?!

Have you watched the full video?

What other prove do you want when you have seen the book?! Is the book not enough to conclude that there is an author?!

Answer this and we will definitely move on!

How many times will i answer this?

An author of a book is a physical being which i have recognized, now what cause this author is what you are yet to tell me. Please stop dodging this question.

tintingz:
It's also irrational and problematic to logic to claim Allah was not created and as well say "there's a creator for everything". It's either you accept the infinite regress chain(Allah having a higher creator) or you accept what created everything is unknown or there's no creator.

Let's agree Allah is the creator and not created, tracing back his existence Allah must have created himself at one point in time(since the writer above said infinitum is irrational and impossible), there is a beginning for his existence but if you insist Allah is infinite then same argument goes below...

We don't know if the universe had a beginning or infinite, or if there are many universe (multiverse), so we can also use same argument of Allah for the universe!

And lastly, there are over thousands of creators in religions, so what makes Allah the one only true creator out of other creators, because a book said so? yes?

You need special deliverance!

Empiree:
Hell is hell. Quran gives names of them but they are the same thing with different grades. It is called Jaheem, Jahannam, Lazaa, al-Sa’eer, Saqar, al-Hatamah and al-Haawiyah, according to its various characteristics.

Anyone deemed to abide in Hell goes to the same Hell created by Allah. There is nothing like "muslim hell or christian Hell". Thats sarcasm we use during debate. There are of course other names that i dont know.

Christians don't believe in your hell, jaheem, Jahanam, Lazaa or whatever you call your hell, they have thier own version of hell fire, so it's tagged "Christian hell" which you and your fellows will be thrown in(Not my idea, no offense).

tintingz:
Did you read my post well? you forgot the "yet" i added there?

here what i posted.

What exist outside the universe cannot interven in this universe and if it does it/he/she has limit himself/herself to this universe, we don't know what's outside the universe yet and we can't imagine what's outside the universe, meaning it's NOTHING to us!

"Yet" there means now, in the future science may give answers to everything or not, but right now we dont know for sure what is outside the universe, it is nothing to our imagination.

How will man intervening in the operations of the computer limit him to that computer?! THINK!

Your "yet" does not give you the affirmation that what is outside the universe is nothing! That you do not know or not sure what is outside the universe does not mean there is nothing, how many times have we thought there was nothing, and found something?! We can actually imagine anything we want, and that is what brings about scientific discoveries! It was by imagination that Kekule brought about the structure of the benzene ring, which was not known as at the time he postulated it!

tintingz:

Quantum vacuum contains lowest energy, does Allah has lowest energy? does Allah function like the particles? Like i said you're trying to turn Allah into another thing. Using deist argument will ridicule your Allah.

I am about to understand more about quantum vacuum, starting from Lawrence Krauss book(A Universe from nothing).

What are you talking about?! This is just straw man! Go back and read my post properly.

tintingz:

Is this computer perfect?

What has perfection got to do with separating a creator and his creation?!

tintingz:

If an inventor sit, talk, get angry, feel emotional, loving, partial, reason, plan e.t.c and the computer posses these characteristics, it shows the inventor is limited and bound to this, there is an external source for this. Even the bible confesses God made man in his own image. This is why it is called a personal God(anthropomorphic).

In your elevated reasoning, because a computer has some characteristics as humans, then humans are bound and limited to a computer?! In other words, humans are the same as computers?! Again does this make sense?!

I had already told you that God is distinct from the creation, even if we share some characteristics! Just like humans are distinct from their creation (inventions)

tintingz:

SMH, There is no first cause or what came first in cyclic model.

And the cyclic model is fact?! Why not explain how the cyclic model brought about life?!

tintingz:

The universe is also something mysterious, Leprechaun, Olorun, Odin, FSM, Brahma, Santa, Unicorn, Fairies, invisible giant teapot are all something mysterious.

Infact since Allah is part of 'something' mysterious then there is a higher mysterious cause, something must cause something right?

Lol! I know this is where wanted to go, but that had already been trashed, scroll back up and read!

tintingz:

Have you watched the full video?

Nope! You can fill me in...

tintingz:

How many times will i answer this?

An author of a book is a physical being which i have recognized, now what cause this author is what you are yet to tell me. Please stop dodging this question.

Okay, i think we are making progress, but you are the one dodging the questions, and I would repeat, does the author's origin (what caused the author) be a yardstick to determine (believe) that there is an author?! I am not asking you if the author must be a physical being or not! If I told you that a book does not have an author because I do not know what caused the author in the first instance, would that be reasonable?!

tintingz:
Christians don't believe in your hell, jaheem, Jahanam, Lazaa or whatever you call your hell, they have thier own version of hell fire, so it's tagged "Christian hell" which you and your fellows will be thrown in(Not my idea, no offense).

you see, you are not being logical and reasonable. You failed to grasp the point. Hell is Hell. If babalawos have their own version of Hell fire, it is still the same Hell. Only One Creator created them

sino:


How will man intervening in the operations of the computer limit him to that computer?! THINK!

Man reason with "time", intervene when "necessary", plan when to intervene etc, these are all bound/limited/eslave to these our time and space. Infact time is now superior than him because he can't do without it.

Your "yet" does not give you the affirmation that what is outside the universe is nothing! That you do not know or not sure what is outside the universe does not mean there is nothing, how many times have we thought there was nothing, and found something?! We can actually imagine anything we want, and that is what brings about scientific discoveries! It was by imagination that Kekule brought about the structure of the benzene ring, which was not known as at the time he postulated it!

Can you prove there is something outside the universe?

Scientists imagine what they observe not santa or fairies!

The universe can be observed, this made scientists to imagine what could cause the universe resulting to different theories, anybody can imagine anything outside the universe be it unicorns flying around.

We know NOTHING what's outside the universe for now.

What are you talking about?! This is just straw man! Go back and read my post properly.

What energy does quantum vacuum contain and how does it link to Allah?

What has perfection got to do with separating a creator and his creation?!

A perfect all-knowing creator shouldn't modify his creation that he claim to be perfect, a perfect creator should know what his creation need e.g I wish humans could fly instead of using years to invent planes and spend money just to fly one.

Natural disasters is not needed, a perfect creator should know this.

In your elevated reasoning, because a computer has some characteristics as humans, then humans are bound and limited to a computer?! In other words, humans are the same as computers?! Again does this make sense?!

If a computer is bound to time and the inventor is bound to time, please who is superior here? Time yes?

I had already told you that God is distinct from the creation, even if we share some characteristics! Just like humans are distinct from their creation (inventions)

An almighty God shouldn't be controlled by time.

And the cyclic model is fact?! Why not explain how the cyclic model brought about life?!

How many theories are yet to be fact about the universe?

Go and read about cyclic universe model.

Lol! I know this is where wanted to go, but that had already been trashed, scroll back up and read!

Do you still believe Allah is the only mysterious entity?

Nope! You can fill me in...

Go on YouTube or I help you with it.

Okay, i think we are making progress, but you are the one dodging the questions, and I would repeat, does the author's origin (what caused the author) be a yardstick to determine (believe) that there is an author?! I am not asking you if the author must be a physical being or not! If I told you that a book does not have an author because I do not know what caused the author in the first instance, would that be reasonable?!

The author origin requires where it comes from, how it came to be, it need to be questioned following the premise argument of something must cause something. Stop being irrational here, it's sickening!

A book can only come from a physical being of this our natural world or have you seen any book written by an invisible entity? Then I wonder why Allah didn't do that for the Quran.

Empiree:
you see, you are not being logical and reasonable. You failed to grasp the point. Hell is Hell. If babalawos have their own version of Hell fire, it is still the same Hell. Only One Creator created them

You're just being sentimental.

Each religion has thier dogmas and version of afterlife, Christian hell is different from Muslim hell and from Jewish hell, each God in these religions knows the occupants that will dwell in thier hell.

So you should know, Christian hell or jewsih hell is where you're going to(not my idea no offense).