I will like to know how humans are perfectly created by a perfect all-knowing God and again give his creation divine laws?

Let me give an example, I'm all-knowing, perfect designer and I designed an Android robot perfectly, and I later give rules for my design which is the Android robot to live by to attain perfection, does this depict a perfect all-knowing designer and a perfect design?

Make I relax here.

adepeter2027:
Make I relax here.

You're most welcome.

Only an insane person will read this and not pity your level of delusion.

What's point trying to argue with you.......its not like are asking this with an inquisitive mind, your motive is for your own selfish end.

U first need to redress and seek knowledge about the perfect creator with open mindness

Who can describe the nature of Allah?. The living, the Eternal : His throne extends over worlds and worlds that no imagination can compass. His truth is as clear as daylight.

I pray that your burdens should be lightened, maybe someday you'll confess your realisation that you have greater need for Allah's mercy and forgiveness.

adejaresalami1:
Only an insane person will read this and not pity your level of delusion.

What's point trying to argue with you.......its not like are asking this with an inquisitive mind, your motive is for your own selfish end.

U first need to redress and seek knowledge about the perfect creator with open mindness

Who can describe the nature of Allah?. The living, the Eternal : His throne extends over worlds and worlds that no imagination can compass. His truth is as clear as daylight.

I pray that your burdens should be lightened, maybe someday you'll confess your realisation that you have greater need for Allah's mercy and forgiveness.

you pity the level of his delusion? what an irony

It takes a fool not to know that in Islam God is the only One that is considered Perfect. Humans are not considered perfect even by a long short in Islam.

usba:
It takes a fool not to know that in Islam God is the only One that is considered Perfect. Humans are not considered perfect even by a long short in Islam.

It is quite unfortunate that the OP was a Muslim, a question like this buttresses the fact that he lacked adequate understanding of the religion in the first instance!

sino:


It is quite unfortunate that the OP was a Muslim, a question like this buttresses the fact that he lacked adequate understanding of the religion in the first instance!

Indeed, ignorance spread over ignorance.

Humanistme:


you pity the level of his delusion? what an irony

Lol, it really got me to my ribs.

He didn't even see the irony and absurdity in his post.

usba:
It takes a fool not to know that in Islam God is the only One that is considered Perfect. Humans are not considered perfect even by a long short in Islam.

I thought Allah said he created everything perfectly?

"The work of Allah who has perfected everything (He created). (Qur’an 27:88)

"He is the One Who has made perfectly everything He has created: He began the creation of human beings with clay, And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit…” (Quran 32:7-9)

Since you said humans are not perfect, then the Quran words are false, Allah did not created everything perfectly!

> So the question is, why did Allah created humans imperfectly and as well wants to punish his creation for his imperfect work?

sino:


It is quite unfortunate that the OP was a Muslim, a question like this buttresses the fact that he lacked adequate understanding of the religion in the first instance!

Ad hominem as usual.

Typical for theists when someone attack thier dogmas, "oh he or she lack adequate understanding" just because such person left the religion and doesn't share same ideology with them. This silly strategy is used to make the audience see the person of OP as less important and ignorant.

This is also common when Sunni and Shia are arguing, they result to ad hominem argument instead of focusing on the main topic at hand.

usba:


Indeed, ignorance spread over ignorance.

These are just red herring.

tintingz:
Ad hominem as usual.

Typical for theists when someone attack thier dogmas, "oh he or she lack adequate understanding" just because such person left the religion and doesn't share same ideology with them. This silly strategy is used to make the audience see the person of OP as less important and ignorant.

This is also common when Sunni and Shia are arguing, they result to ad hominem argument instead of responding to topic at hand.

Why "attack" their dogmas?!

Anyways, your questions gives you away as being ignorant of Islam, or at best feigning ignorance! You even went ahead to quote verses which only depicts more of your ignorance!

You want to argue, and you want to win arguments, perhaps to validate your denial, but the real question is, why?!

sino:


Why "attack" their dogmas?!

Because it's a public matter that's expressed publicly!

Anyways, your questions gives you away as being ignorant of Islam, or at best feigning ignorance! You even went ahead to quote verses which only depicts more of your ignorance!

Lol, Ok since I'm ignorant of Islam, kindly explain what Allah meant by he created "everything" perfectly?

You want to argue, and you want to win arguments, perhaps to validate your denial, but the real question is, why?!

Is this fallacy? Is argument all about winning or dialogue?

You ask why? Why not first tell me how you confidently know the fairy entity up there is Allah then I can tell you my why.

tintingz:
Because it's a public matter that's expressed publicly!

Okay, so what do you intend to gain from this "attack"?!

tintingz:

Lol, Ok since I'm ignorant of Islam, kindly explain what Allah meant by he created "everything" perfectly.

Allah (SWT) created everything in the best way, precise in form, shape or image, so you can distinguish a man, a bird, a snake etc. This does not suggest perfection of the creation, but rather that of the creator!

tintingz:

Is this fallacy? Is argument all about winning or dialogue?

You ask why? Why not first tell me how you confidently know the fairy entity up there is Allah then I can tell you my why.

Please, you already stated that I am discrediting you in the "eyes" of the audience, you already came with the intent to argue and prove that you are right, that is quite evident in your posts including this. So there is no dialogue, only argument of which you want to win and I asked why?

Again, that you do not believe in Allah (SWT) is not news, we all know that, tell us why you are here, attacking and asking these questions?! Are you not confident enough to give your reasons?!

sino:

Okay, so what do you intend to gain from this "attack"?!

When "attack" is used in a debate or argument it means responding or questioning a premise, so what do I gain in this, I've said it, I want people to be skeptical, ask questions and reason, with this we will evolve from believing in ancient myths and legends and focus on more important things.

Allah (SWT) created everything in the best way, precise in form, shape or image, so you can distinguish a man, a bird, a snake etc. This does not suggest perfection of the creation, but rather that of the creator!

Contradicting, this means not "everything" is perfectly created!

So, we agree Allah didn't created his creation perfectly, so let's go to the perfection of the designer which is Allah.

> Why does a perfect All-knowing Allah created his creations imperfectly (e.g humans, Satan), while he knows all what will happen in the future before creation, like Satan rebelling, humans err and the consequences for this is a terrible punishment like hell fire, why didn't he correct all these from the beginning of creation(e.g not creating Satan), why did he had to give a divine law for his perfect mistakes or game? Does this depict a perfect and all-knowing God?

Please, you already stated that I am discrediting you in the "eyes" of the audience, you already came with the intent to argue and prove that you are right, that is quite evident in your posts including this. So there is no dialogue, only argument of which you want to win and I asked why?

This is fallacy, your first comment here isn't a response to the thread topic rather ad hominem argument.

The OP never said he wants to win any argument nor he's right, he only brought forward questions, you on your part assumed a fallacious conclusion that I want to win an argument which is not the case.

So quit the fallacy and attend to OP questions.

Again, that you do not believe in Allah (SWT) is not news, we all know that, tell us why you are here, attacking and asking these questions?! Are you not confident enough to give your reasons?!

How many times will I answer this, you are going straw-man dude.

I don't believe in Allah Since there's no evidence for his existence, You haven't answer my question, since you strongly believe in Allah, how did you confidently know Allah is the one or the only one above the sky?

tintingz:
When "attack" is used in a debate or argument it means responding or questioning a premise, so what do I gain in this, I've said it, I want people to be skeptical, ask questions and reason, with this we will evolve from believing in ancient myths and legends and focus on more important things.

Contradicting, this means not "everything" is perfectly created!

So, we agree Allah didn't created his creation perfectly, so let's go to the perfection of the designer which is Allah.

> Why does a perfect All-knowing Allah created his creations imperfectly (e.g humans, Satan), while he knows all what will happen in the future before creation, like Satan rebelling, humans err and the consequences for this is a terrible punishment like hell fire, why didn't he correct all these from the beginning of creation(e.g not creating Satan), why did he had to give a divine law for his perfect mistakes or game? Does this depict a perfect and all-knowing God?


This is fallacy, your first comment here isn't a response to the thread topic rather ad hominem argument.

The OP never said he wants to win any argument nor he's right, he only brought forward questions, you on your part assumed a fallacious conclusion that I want to win an argument which is not the case.

So quit the fallacy and attend to OP questions.

How many times will I answer this, you are going straw-man dude.

I don't believe in Allah Since there's no evidence for his existence, You haven't answer my question, since you strongly believe in Allah, how did you confidently know Allah is the one or the only one above the sky?

You want people to be skeptical?! So your aim is to let everyone be in perpetual state of doubt, that is really an unstable state of mind, at this rate, you would even start doubting you are alive, it is a window to psychosis! Apparently, there is no gain in what you are trying to preach, rather a lot to lose at the end of the day! If you cannot stay away from "attacking" Allah (SWT) and Muslims, when then are you focusing on other important things?! I would have expected that since you are now an atheist, you have achieved so much, you are now a millionaire?! You have published a bestseller?! You have found the cure for cancer?! Oh! You are now going to live forever?! What has your online study of the origin of the universe taught you?! Do you know why there is life?! Or why is there even good and bad (evil)?! "Nemo dat quad non habet" "You cannot give what you don't have" You have no answers bro, only skepticism!

Yeah right, you do not want to win arguments, just your intention was to make people skeptical?! Meaning you are not even sure why you are even asking the questions, because you are in doubt, you do not know what is right or wrong?! Meaning you are confused?!

Your questions are ridiculous, when I said you did not understand Islam, you were claiming ad hominem, if you want to "attack" something, you need to be fully knowledgeable about that thing, and not argue blindly!

Allah is not demanding perfection from humans, he created them in the best way for this earth which is only temporary. Your eyes are perfectly placed same as your limbs and where each and every organ is, you wouldn't want your brain to be under your feet, or your eyes to be on your belly?! When you see deformities, then you would appreciate that definitely, man is created in the best way. Allah is not demanding from you what you cannot do, and He also gave you a great deal of opportunity to repent (whenever you err) and seek Him sincerely, Allah is not forcing you to do anything, He gave you the capability and capacity to make your own decisions, so you are responsible for whatever you do, and should be ready to accept the consequences. If you no read your books (or you go dey read anoda tin wey no concern you), you come fail, na the lecturer fault?! When you acknowledge your limitations and your imperfections, instead of your egocentric skepticism and your pseudo-intelligence, then you would realize the need to seek God, who is Perfect in all ramifications!

This dude here is Funny, it is interesting tho.

sino:


You want people to be skeptical?! So your aim is to let everyone be in perpetual state of doubt, that is really an unstable state of mind, at this rate, you would even start doubting you are alive, it is a window to psychosis! Apparently, there is no gain in what you are trying to preach, rather a lot to lose at the end of the day!

I thought you are more intelligent than this, no offense.

Between gullibility and doubting, which lead to enlightenment and truth?

Skepticism is what led to enlightenment, check out the ancient Greeks, it is their skepticism that led to science and philosophy, people believe the Gods were the cause of sickness, thunder, rain etc, it was doubt and reasoning that result to questioning and researches that led to enlightenment. Damn, sino you are disappointing.

Doubting something is not a window to insanity, you are just using your psychological projection on this, what actually looks like a window to psychosis is when people pray to an imaginary entity for protection, imagine talking to yourself calling it prayers.

If you cannot stay away from "attacking" Allah (SWT) and Muslims, when then are you focusing on other important things?! I would have expected that since you are now an atheist, you have achieved so much, you are now a millionaire?! You have published a bestseller?!

Check out the muslim world today and tell me what their problem is? I am not attacking, critiszing muslims but the ideology, know the difference. Your fairy book is not making lots of you reason, it makes people do silly things. Also check out Africa one of the most religious continent, tell me if they are moving forward or backward?

Like Karl Marx said: Religion is the opium of the masses

And you also made a fallacious statement if i am now a millionaire since i am an atheist, Lol... you dont know my personal life, how i work, where i work, what i have in my account , you already assumed a sarcastic statement if i am now a millionaire? My motive is not for my selfish gain or interest but for the world!

You have found the cure for cancer?! Oh! You are now going to live forever?! What has your online study of the origin of the universe taught you?! Do you know why there is life?! Or why is there even good and bad (evil)?! "Nemo dat quad non habet" "You cannot give what you don't have" You have no answers bro, only skepticism!

So what answer as your religion provided to the cure of cancer? I am interested in knowing what beneficial thing your religion as deliver to humanity.

Lol, the answer to origin of the universe is the 6 days creation in the Quran or the 7 days creation in the bible or the Olorun sending Obatala, oh yeah we all know the origin of the universe! Or why there is life is Allah creating Adam and Eve only for him to also create satan that will lead people to hell, oh Allah really wants people to worship him daily and recite a fairy book, yeah that is why there is life!

Why there is good and bad(evil), i think Allah should also answer that, he is the source of these, he should answer that.

Yeah right, you do not want to win arguments, just your intention was to make people skeptical?! Meaning you are not even sure why you are even asking the questions, because you are in doubt, you do not know what is right or wrong?! Meaning you are confused?!

SMH, You asked what do i gain from this or why attacking, and i answered i want people to be skeptical, question and reason only for you to pick "skeptic" and said i am confused? is this how you reason? why are you playing the non sequitur game?

Your questions are ridiculous, when I said you did not understand Islam, you were claiming ad hominem, if you want to "attack" something, you need to be fully knowledgeable about that thing, and not argue blindly!

You didn't attend to the OP question rather attacking the person of the OP and his motive, that is ad hominem dude, it is a fallacious argument.

I have knowledge of what i am saying, why not answer the question the OP presented with your knowledge and stop playing the non sequitur and ad hominem game.

Allah is not demanding perfection from humans, he created them in the best way for this earth which is only temporary. Your eyes are perfectly placed same as your limbs and where each and every organ is, you wouldn't want your brain to be under your feet, or your eyes to be on your belly?! When you see deformities, then you would appreciate that definitely, man is created in the best way. Allah is not demanding from you what you cannot do, and He also gave you a great deal of opportunity to repent (whenever you err) and seek Him sincerely, Allah is not forcing you to do anything, He gave you the capability and capacity to make your own decisions, so you are responsible for whatever you do, and should be ready to accept the consequences. If you no read your books (or you go dey read anoda tin wey no concern you), you come fail, na the lecturer fault?! When you acknowledge your limitations and your imperfections, instead of your egocentric skepticism and your pseudo-intelligence, then you would realize the need to seek God, who is Perfect in all ramifications!

Lol, your absurdity here is alarming. Pseudo-intelligent? Your psychological projection is decieving you.

Allah created humans, wants humans to be righteous by worshiping him leaving humans with two options, reject and go to hell, worship him and go to paradise. If Allah actually want us not to do anything and give us freewill, given two options is not freewill but force and threats!

Allah is all knowing he does not know satan will rebel or he knew but decide not to stop satan, does such God deserve worship?

Allah created humans perfectly shaped, he didn't know humans will need flying ability to fly to far places but want humans to spend huge money to travel which is even risky, is that God perfect and all knowing?

Allah created the women in "perfect" shape he doesn't know this will cause chaos to men and to correct this he gave a divine law for women to cover their whole body just because of his fault?

Allah created humans he doesn't know some people will turn homosexual, only for him to kill them in Sodom and Gomorrah?

Allah created natural disasters for no reason and said he created everything perfectly, if you see this your God as perfect and all knowing sorry i dont.

Sissie, I demand to know why one of my post is hidden?

tintingz:
This dude here is Funny, it is interesting tho. I thought you are more intelligent than this, no offense.

Between gullibility and doubting, which lead to enlightenment and truth?

Skepticism is what led to enlightenment, check out the ancient Greeks, it is their skepticism that led to science and philosophy, people believe the Gods were the cause of sickness, thunder, rain etc, it was doubt and reasoning that result to questioning and researches that led to enlightenment. Damn, sino you are disappointing.

Doubting something is not a window to insanity, you are just using your psychological projection on this, what actually looks like a window to psychosis is when people pray to an imaginary entity for protection, imagine talking to yourself calling it prayers.

I have advised you to always understand something before making claims. You want to create doubt, but you are not certain of the facts (you said you are not here to claim to be right abi?), hence you are in doubt about everything! For the record, the bedrock of modern science is religion, many religious men were in the forefront of scientific breakthroughs, they had firm believe in God, yet they were excellent scientist...

If you claim to be a skeptic, then let me help you understand why you are prone to psychosis, pay attention, and learn from an authority:

"Given this tawdry state of affairs, it is surprising that so few modern defenders of skepticism have anything interesting to say about how to live with or understand their skeptical conclusions. (Some Greek and Roman skeptics actually did try to live in conformity with their skeptical beliefs).

David Hume (1711-76), perhaps the greatest skeptic of them all, struggled valiantly with this conflict. According to Hume, we face a difficult dilemma. On the one hand, we must respect philosophical reasoning (or, as he calls it, “refin’d reflection”). It is our only defense against ignorance, superstition, and other beliefs governing daily life which, one and all, originate in ‘illusions of the imagination’. On the other hand, we can’t run our lives on the conclusions of refin’d reflection since

“…the understanding, when it acts alone, and according to its most general principles, entirely subverts itself, and leaves not the lowest degree of evidence in any proposition, either in philosophy or common life.” [This and the following Hume quotes are from A Treatise of Human Nature, Book I, Part IV, section VII].

Midway through his discussion, Hume asserts that there is no rational solution to this problem, but that we don’t need one. Although reason makes no headway here, ‘nature’ seems to solves the problem in favor of ‘common life.’ One can only entertain skeptical conclusions for so long before

“…[nature] cures me of this philosophical melancholy and delirium, either by relaxing this bent of mind, or by some avocation and lively impression of my senses, which obliterates all these chimeras. I dine, I play a game of back-gammon, and I am merry with my friends; and when after three or four hours’ amusement, I wou’d return to these speculations, they appear so cold, and strain’d, and ridiculous, that I cannot find it in my heart to enter into them any farther.”

Source

When I say you are tending towards psychosis, it wasn't just a figment of my imagination, it is a real problem you face!

Secondly, prayer has been said to have benefits by SCIENCE which includes; Self control, helping people to become nicer, helping people to forgive easily, increases unity and trust in couples, help people cope with stress...Source

All these can be found in reputable peer reviewed journals.

tintingz:

Check out the muslim world today and tell me what their problem is? I am not attacking, critiszing muslims but the ideology, know the difference. Your fairy book is not making lots of you reason, it makes people do silly things. Also check out Africa one of the most religious continent, tell me if they are moving forward or backward?

Like Karl Marx said: Religion is the opium of the masses

There are Muslim scientists all around the world, and those of other religion, Islam never is responsible for any backwardness, at least we know from history the role Muslims played in the acquisition and spread of beneficial knowledge including science! As i pointed out earlier, religious people were at the forefront of advancement in different aspects of modern science.

If you want people to take you seriously, quote verses of the Qur'an that prevents research and acquiring beneficial knowledge, not this your recycled argument found online!

tintingz:

And you also made a fallacious statement if i am now a millionaire since i am an atheist, Lol... you dont know my personal life, how i work, where i work, what i have in my account , you already assumed a sarcastic statement if i am now a millionaire? My motive is not for my selfish gain or interest but for the world!

My questions were rhetorical. How does denying a creator help your motive?! As already established, religious people are very involved in science. If you want to be useful to the world, it is not by ranting about how Allah (SWT) is not perfect and how Allah (SWT) does not exist! You contribute meaningfully to the environment and the people, and for your information, that is what Islam teaches. All you have been doing here is egocentric, it is very obvious in your posts.

tintingz:

So what answer as your religion provided to the cure of cancer? I am interested in knowing what beneficial thing your religion as deliver to humanity.

Why must I doubt the existence of God before I can do research and find a cure for cancer? Islam says "there is no disease without a cure" this only suggest that we should seek cures for diseases, and not rest until it is found! It encourages science! So what are you on about?!

Islam has given meaning to life, purpose of life, hope, unity and peace to billions and billions of human being, and till tomorrow, people see the truth and embrace the religion in the multitude, because it resonates with man's soul! Believe in one creator and worship this one creator in all you do!

tintingz:

Lol, the answer to origin of the universe is the 6 days creation in the Quran or the 7 days creation in the bible or the Olorun sending Obatala, oh yeah we all know the origin of the universe! Or why there is life is Allah creating Adam and Eve only for him to also create satan that will lead people to hell, oh Allah really wants people to worship him daily and recite a fairy book, yeah that is why there is life!

Why there is good and bad(evil), i think Allah should also answer that, he is the source of these, he should answer that.

Apparently, you have no answers, you are in perpetual doubt and uncertainty!

tintingz:

SMH, You asked what do i gain from this or why attacking, and i answered i want people to be skeptical, question and reason only for you to pick "skeptic" and said i am confused? is this how you reason? why are you playing the non sequitur game?

You didn't attend to the OP question rather attacking the person of the OP and his motive, that is ad hominem dude, it is a fallacious argument.

Is skepticism not part of your aim?! So I cannot pick one of your aim to probe further?! because?

You are indeed confused, you said you are not here to prove you are right (since you are not sure, remember you are skeptic ), and then said you want people to be skeptic, that is to be in doubt, based on the fact that you yourself is in doubt! Are you certain of the reason for doing what you are doing?! Are you sure of what you are doing or you are skeptical?!

tintingz:

I have knowledge of what i am saying, why not answer the question the OP presented with your knowledge and stop playing the non sequitur and ad hominem game.

If you couldn't decipher responses to the Op from my posts, then you should consider evening classes in comprehension!

tintingz:

Lol, your absurdity here is alarming. Pseudo-intelligent? Your psychological projection is decieving you.

Allah created humans, wants humans to be righteous by worshiping him leaving humans with two options, reject and go to hell, worship him and go to paradise. If Allah actually want us not to do anything and give us freewill, given two options is not freewill but force and threats!

Allah is all knowing he does not know satan will rebel or he knew but decide not to stop satan, does such God deserve worship?

You are absolutely free, as an atheist, i guess you do not believe in good and bad (evil), there is no consequences and no responsibilities, just do as you wish, nobody is forcing you not to.

tintingz:

Allah created humans perfectly shaped, he didn't know humans will need flying ability to fly to far places but want humans to spend huge money to travel which is even risky, is that God perfect and all knowing?

Chai! Well, to start with, Allah (SWT) gave man the capacity to use his God-given brain to invent the plane. But you are not grateful for this blessings, so you want to have wings like birds right?! How will that fit into our present anatomy?! It is even ridiculous to think of, chai!

But anyways, the maximum speed of the fastest bird according to Wiki is 389 Km/h, while one of the fastest passenger plane AirbusA380 is 1087Km/h.

Allah gave man the brain to invent such, but silly you wants to fly like a bird, how lowly you think!

tintingz:

Allah created the women in "perfect" shape he doesn't know this will cause chaos to men and to correct this he gave a divine law for women to cover their whole body just because of his fault?

You are attracted to this shape aren't you?! I'm sure you love these beautiful shape of women and when you were a Muslim, it pained you that you are not supposed to look at strange women's shape except for your wife? Ha! Thanks to atheism, you are now free to look as much as you want! Congratulations!!! It would make sense if we all go naked like animals in the forest after all we are animals! You know what, when you marry, tell your wife to always go out naked, tell your female children to go out naked, perhaps tell all the females in your family to go out naked! Why?! Because covering the female body is absurd, evolution had made these things for our pleasure!

tintingz:

Allah created humans he doesn't know some people will turn homosexual, only for him to kill them in Sodom and Gomorrah?

Allah knows, and Allah warned them as Allah warns you too. His creations, and His prerogative to discipline them for their crime. What can you do?! Disbelieve?! Who cares?!

tintingz:

Allah created natural disasters for no reason and said he created everything perfectly, if you see this your God as perfect and all knowing sorry i dont.

You are going to DIE one way or the other, hate Allah, make fun and mockery, it doesn't change anything! Since you stop believing in Allah (SWT), did that stop anything?! There billions of Muslims all around the world, each being grateful and seeking the Mercy of Allah (SWT), so who cares?!

sino:


I have advised you to always understand something before making claims. You want to create doubt, but you are not certain of the facts (you said you are not here to claim to be right abi?), hence you are in doubt about everything! For the record, the bedrock of modern science is religion, many religious men were in the forefront of scientific breakthroughs, they had firm believe in God, yet they were excellent scientist...

It seems you dont know what skepticism means, you just post things with ignorance. Skepticism is used in acquiring knowledge, seek for the truth, skepticism is used in many field be it science, court, politics etc. The bedrock of modern science is not religion but skepticism, the Europeans started the modern scientific revolution, the Greeks are the founder of scientific revolution, the medeival muslim conquest of the persians, egypts, Byzantine empire around 800-1429 made the muslims gain access to their works and influenced by it, many of the works of the medieval muslims Scientists lack innovation, while some scholars said while it produce innovation, it did not lead to a scientific revolution! The muslim scientific revolution stopped around that period.

Right is relative which might be wrong to you, saying i am right in an argument is egoistic, but making people reason and question things is the best way for people to know the truth themselves.

If you claim to be a skeptic, then let me help you understand why you are prone to psychosis, pay attention, and learn from an authority:

"Given this tawdry state of affairs, it is surprising that so few modern defenders of skepticism have anything interesting to say about how to live with or understand their skeptical conclusions. (Some Greek and Roman skeptics actually did try to live in conformity with their skeptical beliefs).

David Hume (1711-76), perhaps the greatest skeptic of them all, struggled valiantly with this conflict. According to Hume, we face a difficult dilemma. On the one hand, we must respect philosophical reasoning (or, as he calls it, “refin’d reflection”). It is our only defense against ignorance, superstition, and other beliefs governing daily life which, one and all, originate in ‘illusions of the imagination’. On the other hand, we can’t run our lives on the conclusions of refin’d reflection since

“…the understanding, when it acts alone, and according to its most general principles, entirely subverts itself, and leaves not the lowest degree of evidence in any proposition, either in philosophy or common life.” [This and the following Hume quotes are from A Treatise of Human Nature, Book I, Part IV, section VII].

Midway through his discussion, Hume asserts that there is no rational solution to this problem, but that we don’t need one. Although reason makes no headway here, ‘nature’ seems to solves the problem in favor of ‘common life.’ One can only entertain skeptical conclusions for so long before

“…[nature] cures me of this philosophical melancholy and delirium, either by relaxing this bent of mind, or by some avocation and lively impression of my senses, which obliterates all these chimeras. I dine, I play a game of back-gammon, and I am merry with my friends; and when after three or four hours’ amusement, I wou’d return to these speculations, they appear so cold, and strain’d, and ridiculous, that I cannot find it in my heart to enter into them any farther.”

Source

You are posting someone's problem and making it a fact. Dude haba!

Are you saying there are no religious people with this problems? Psychosis like you called it?

Scientists are skeptics, why are you having problem with skepticism? i asked you in my previous post, between gullibility and skepticism, which leads to enlightenment and truth?

When I say you are tending towards psychosis, it wasn't just a figment of my imagination, it is a real problem you face!

Psychosis is when you talk to a fairy entity and thinks he is hearing you calling it prayers, imagine praying this way "oh gravity gravity gravity protect me or facing a direction and chanting gravity is mighty, gravity is mighty", thats insanity.

Skepticism is doubting and questioning things to gain more knowledge about things around you.

Imagine coming to you that there is an invisible giant tea pot revolving round the earth, wont you doubt and question me, is that not being skeptical?

Secondly, prayer has been said to have benefits by SCIENCE which includes; Self control, helping people to become nicer, helping people to forgive easily, increases unity and trust in couples, help people cope with stress...Source

All these can be found in reputable peer reviewed journals.

Actually, religious terrorists pray daily, i guess prayer is impotent to them.

One can be nice, kind, forgiving without prayers or religion, your empathy can do that, if your kindness is because of prayer, i dont think such person is genuinely kind.

I dont pray and i still show kindness to people, that's humanism.

There are Muslim scientists all around the world, and those of other religion, Islam never is responsible for any backwardness, at least we know from history the role Muslims played in the acquisition and spread of beneficial knowledge including science! As i pointed out earlier, religious people were at the forefront of advancement in different aspects of modern science.

How many Muslim scientists have changed the world? I applaud the medieval Muslim scientists but they didn't actually made the scientific revolution of today.

Do these religious people use their fairy book for modern scientific revolution?

If you want people to take you seriously, quote verses of the Qur'an that prevents research and acquiring beneficial knowledge, not this your recycled argument found online!

I was expecting the Quran to be source of knowledge itself, i guess the Quran is dependent on science!

My questions were rhetorical. How does denying a creator help your motive?! As already established, religious people are very involved in science. If you want to be useful to the world, it is not by ranting about how Allah (SWT) is not perfect and how Allah (SWT) does not exist! You contribute meaningfully to the environment and the people, and for your information, that is what Islam teaches. All you have been doing here is egocentric, it is very obvious in your posts.

How to stop terrorism is still a problem you know?

One can contribute to the environment without Religion and if you're religious and you contribute to the environment it is a good thing.

Making people realize religion is not actually the answer to everything is enlightenment. Check out the western world, they are irreligious and they are advancing in every system, it shows you can be successful without being religious but you find it difficult to accept that.

Why must I doubt the existence of God before I can do research and find a cure for cancer? Islam says "there is no disease without a cure" this only suggest that we should seek cures for diseases, and not rest until it is found! It encourages science! So what are you on about?!

Why is Allah not curing cancer or reveal how cancer should be cured?

The thing is, Allah depend on science and science doesn't depend on any fairy entities.

Islam has given meaning to life, purpose of life, hope, unity and peace to billions and billions of human being, and till tomorrow, people see the truth and embrace the religion in the multitude, because it resonates with man's soul! Believe in one creator and worship this one creator in all you do!

Sorry, there's no peace in the world maybe in your world, this world is unfair to Humans.

Allah created natural disasters, diseases etc is that peace? And what unity are you talking about? Is it the Sunni and Shia unity?

People embrace Islam and people leave, it's not new, it doesn't make any of it right.

I will like to know the purpose of Allah creating Satan, let's start from that.

Apparently, you have no answers, you are in perpetual doubt and uncertainty!

Is there actually answers to everything?

Is skepticism not part of your aim?! So I cannot pick one of your aim to probe further?! because?

Because you're cherry picking.

You are indeed confused, you said you are not here to prove you are right (since you are not sure, remember you are skeptic ), and then said you want people to be skeptic, that is to be in doubt, based on the fact that you yourself is in doubt! Are you certain of the reason for doing what you are doing?! Are you sure of what you are doing or you are skeptical?!

Dude, where did I said I'm skeptic? Where? Skepticism is a tool to acquire knowledge further, it's not a believe but a tool.

Like I said proving I'm right to something is relative, you might not find what I'm saying to be right, we won't be arguing if you accept I'm right. The best way to do it is make people reason and question.

If you couldn't decipher responses to the Op from my posts, then you should consider evening classes in comprehension!

You are absolutely free, as an atheist, i guess you do not believe in good and bad (evil), there is no consequences and no responsibilities, just do as you wish, nobody is forcing you not to.

I do good because I'm human, I make use of my empathy to do good and know what's bad(evil), the world is unfair to us so what consequences are you talking about?

The Quran said beating disobedient wife is permissible, as someone like me who make use of empathy finds beating a woman babaric! There are other barbaric commandments in the Quran.

Right and wrong are relative.

Chai! Well, to start with, Allah (SWT) gave man the capacity to use his God-given brain to invent the plane. But you are not grateful for this blessings, so you want to have wings like birds right?! How will that fit into our present anatomy?! It is even ridiculous to think of, chai!

Did Allah bother to know how many years it took Humans to invent planes? Or how risky it's to fly planes? Or how people died from plane crash? If your God care about this he should have consider doing the right perfect thing from the beginning.

This shows your God is not actually perfect and all-knowing.

But anyways, the maximum speed of the fastest bird according to Wiki is 389 Km/h, while one of the fastest passenger plane AirbusA380 is 1087Km/h.

So? Must Allah create us to have the maximum speed of a bird? How do you reason, are you limitting Allah's power?

Allah gave man the brain to invent such, but silly you wants to fly like a bird, how lowly you think!

The number of insults I've received in this section is getting much and the saddest thing is the MODs will ignore it.

Are you saying the plane humans invented is safe and pay?

You are attracted to this shape aren't you?! I'm sure you love these beautiful shape of women and when you were a Muslim, it pained you that you are not supposed to look at strange women's shape except for your wife? Ha! Thanks to atheism, you are now free to look as much as you want! Congratulations!!! It would make sense if we all go naked like animals in the forest after all we are animals! You know what, when you marry, tell your wife to always go out naked, tell your female children to go out naked, perhaps tell all the females in your family to go out naked! Why?! Because covering the female body is absurd, evolution had made these things for our pleasure!

Lol, you're not getting the problem. The problem is not about going nakéd, the problem is why did Allah made women in that shape when he knows it will be a chaos to men, why did he had to command women to cover the whole body for his mistakes? Is it the women's fault or Allah's fault? Kindly answer.

Allah knows, and Allah warned them as Allah warns you too. His creations, and His prerogative to discipline them for their crime. What can you do?! Disbelieve?! Who cares?!

Why didn't Allah discipline Satan? You're not facing the actual problem!

Did Allah knew people will turn gay in Sodom and Gomorrah? If he knew why didn't he prevent it from the beginning? Is he Malevolent or Impotent?

You are going to DIE one way or the other, hate Allah, make fun and mockery, it doesn't change anything! Since you stop believing in Allah (SWT), did that stop anything?! There billions of Muslims all around the world, each being grateful and seeking the Mercy of Allah (SWT), so who cares?!

There are billions of people that reject Allah, I guess Allah will throw them inside hell, what a merciful perfect all-knowing God, I guess it's part of Allah's plan.

tintingz:
I will like to know how humans are perfectly created by a perfect all-knowing God and again give his creation divine laws?

Let me give an example, I'm all-knowing, perfect designer and I designed an Android robot perfectly, and I later give rules for my design which is the Android robot to live by to attain perfection, does this depict a perfect all-knowing designer and a perfect design?

# The difference between your "perfectly created" robot and man is endowment of "freewill".

* Man is created perfect and distinct. How? One of what made him unique is his freewill.

* One of the burdens of this freewill is that he can use it to destroy himself and others; hence, the need for set of divine rules to guide his freewill. Yet, just as Qur'an says in several places, he can decide to follow the law or decide to reject it. Interestingly, whichever way he decides, there is a price for it.

# Show me a single manufactured robot or machine without manual for its control or maintenance?

AlBaqir:


# The difference between your "perfectly created" robot and man is endowment of "freewill".

* Man is created perfect and distinct. How? One of what made him unique is his freewill.

* One of the burdens of this freewill is that he can use it to destroy himself and others; hence, the need for set of divine rules to guide his freewill. Yet, just as Qur'an says in several places, he can decide to follow the law or decide to reject it. Interestingly, whichever way he decides, there is a price for it.

# Show me a single manufactured robot or machine without manual for its control or maintenance?

The android robot i designed has freewill remember i said i created the robot perfectly and i gave it rules to live by. A perfect all knowing designer who knows everything should create the robot perfectly from the beginning without giving rules, giving rules for something you perfectly created shows it is not perfect and the designer is not all perfect and all knowing because why should the designer later give rules out of necessity for what he perfectly created? Evolution also depict an imperfect designer.

Let me illustrate further, you created something and you later realized and said "oh this thing is erring, it need a rule or manual to live by", you realized that there are things you should have done when creating or before creating it, or you dont know what you should have done and later realize what you should have done after discovering what you created is erring.

To freewill, let me point out the problems about freewill,

> If a creator knows and plan the lives(the beginning and end) of what he created, how then is freewill playing a role?

> If a creator give two options( reject him/her and be terribly punished in hell, worship and go to paradise), where is the freewill here?

free will
noun
noun: freewill
1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

free will
noun
the ability to decide what to do independently of any outside influence

If Allah truly give humans freewill he shouldn't give two options, he shouldn't interfere with human's lives.

As for the last question, a manufacturer giving manuals to his design for "maintenance" and "control" shows what he design is not perfect and the manufacturer himself is not perfect, the robot does not have freewill since it depend on a manual to be controlled.

tintingz:


To freewill, let me point out the problems about freewill,

> If a creator knows and plan the lives(the beginning and end) of what he created, how then is freewill playing a role?

> If a creator give two options( reject him/her and be terribly punished in hell, worship and go to paradise), where is the freewill here?

free will
noun
noun: freewill
1.
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

free will
noun
the ability to decide what to do independently of any outside influence

If Allah truly give humans freewill he shouldn't give two options, he shouldn't interfere with human's lives.

As for the last question, a manufacturer giving manuals to his design for "maintenance" and "control" shows what he design is not perfect and the manufacturer himself is not perfect, the robot does not have freewill since it depend on a manual to be controlled.

# By "perfection", what do Islam meant? Again human being is CREATED perfect. His development (tarbiyat) can either sustain that perfection or reduce it (physically and most especially spiritually).

* A baby is born perfectly (physically and spiritually).

* What the parents feed him/her, and the type of environment s/he develops in, with time will help his/her development (either in continuity of his perfection or regression).

* Just like alcohol consumption is detrimental to physicality of man, it is also to his spirituality. And in both cases reduces his "perfection".

# However, this continuity of perfection or regression in it, is by his "freewill".


# The goal of Islamic rules and injunction (Salat, Sawm, amr bil ma'ruf wa nahy anil munkar etc) is towards " perfection" of man.

* If by your freewill, you have chosen the path of regression of your "perfection", there is still chance via those " manuals - rules and injunction" set by your Maker.

* If by your freewill, you remain on the path of continuity of your "perfection", you continue with that manual of rules, you can only continue and remain in " perfection".


1. Qur'an says about "perfection, freewill and end goal" thus:

# Surah Ash-Shams, Verse 7 - 11:

And the soul (nafs) and Him Who made it perfect,

Then He inspired it to understand what is right and wrong for it;

He will indeed be successful who purifies it,

And he will indeed fail who corrupts it.


2. # In other verses, Quran talks about perfection in physicality and warn as to things that are detrimental to it. Again, it is by choice that you follow or not.

AlBaqir:


# By "perfection", what do Islam meant? Again human being is CREATED perfect. His development (tarbiyat) can either sustain that perfection or reduce it (physically and most especially spiritually).

* A baby is born perfectly (physically and spiritually).

* What the parents feed him/her, and the type of environment s/he develops in, with time will help his/her development (either in continuity of his perfection or regression).

* Just like alcohol consumption is detrimental to physicality of man, it is also to his spirituality. And in both cases reduces his "perfection".

# However, this continuity of perfection or regression in it, is by his "freewill".


# The goal of Islamic rules and injunction (Salat, Sawm, amr bil ma'ruf wa nahy anil munkar etc) is towards " perfection" of man.

* If by your freewill, you have chosen the path of regression of your "perfection", there is still chance via those " manuals - rules and injunction" set by your Maker.

* If by your freewill, you remain on the path of continuity of your "perfection", you continue with that manual of rules, you can only continue and remain in " perfection".


1. Qur'an says about "perfection, freewill and end goal" thus:

# Surah Ash-Shams, Verse 7 - 11:

And the soul (nafs) and Him Who made it perfect,

Then He inspired it to understand what is right and wrong for it;

He will indeed be successful who purifies it,

And he will indeed fail who corrupts it.


2. # In other verses, Quran talks about perfection in physicality and warn as to things that are detrimental to it. Again, it is by choice that you follow or not.

You're still saying same thing i said in my post just that you didn't see the absurdity in it.

By saying continuity of perfection you mean modification or evolving right?

You invented a mobile phone, then later it needed to be advanced and modify from previous mistakes/model, also giving it a manual, was the mobile phone perfectly invented? If the inventor is perfect and all knowing shouldn't he know what he should have done perfectly in the beginning?

Babies are not perfect, that's why they are dependent on external influence to develop in characters, feeding, training etc.

Perfect

1. make (something) completely free from faults or defects; make as good as possible.

2. Having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.

3. absolute; complete

Does the definition of perfect in line with your illustration about perfect? Perfection is "completeness" not continuity, you can't be continuing/evolving on your perfection and said you're perfect, you're not as that's false, you're imperfect but trying to bring the best out of you (within your adventures you will make mistakes, errors).

I have pointed out problems about freewill, let me ask,

Is there any other option outside going to paradise and hell?

If you plan and know someone's life from beginning to end, explain the freewill there?

Albaqir,

The moment you said you're perfect then you're completely free from faults, mistakes, the moment you decide to evolve in your perfection then there's a problem somewhere making your previous perfection not perfect, if you continue to evolve in your perfection then all your previous perfection are not perfect then that makes you not perfect and if you say your previous perfection are all perfect then why do you need to evolve in your perfection?

And this makes your creator not perfect and all knowing since he didn't made you completely free from development and he doesn't know the future of you, if he knows the future of you, he should have created you perfectly without no need to evolve in perfection, he doesn't need to give laws to make you perfect.

I hope you get the illustration?

I wonder why people are replying tintingz , the guy is just deluded and looking for someone to play with their intelligence.

I gave up on him when he couldn't tell his criteria for selecting what is right or wrong. When someone lacks basic principles their minds will be wondering everywhere without direction and don't let him take you everywhere.

Fundamentalist:
I wonder why people are replying tintingz , the guy is just deluded and looking for someone to play with their intelligence.

Being deluded is when you believe in something that can't logically be proven or no empirical evidence and want people to believe in it, that's being deluded.

The OP topic is not about "I'm right" but logical questions, which Sino think I must proclaim I'm right in an argument, the moment I keep saying I'm right without asking logical questions then people like you will say I'm deluded, delusional.

So what's wrong playing with intelligence? This is another problem Sino also think it makes people psychosis and I asked Between gullibility and skepticism which one leads to enlightenment and truth? I will also like to know how science and technology came to be. He and one egoistic imam also called me a pseudo-intelligent, someone like that(pseudo-intelligent) is someone who claim or thinks he knows all wihich he doesn't, I never claim I know everything, Infact I made it know I don't know some things for now(agnostic) e.g origin of the universe, what's outside the universe (if there's any outside). But Mr Sino is not pseudo-intelligent when he tries to use Deist or cosmological argument to prove his personal God.

I gave up on him when he couldn't tell his criteria for selecting what is right or wrong. When someone lacks basic principles their minds will be wondering everywhere without direction and don't let him take you everywhere.

If you go through this thread I've answered this question.

And I answered you that your "empathy" can make you know what's good or bad, you can be a good person without religion, you can be a bad when you're religious e.g terrorism.

empathy
ˈɛmpəθi/
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

If you don't understand what I posted in that thread, why not ask for further explanation instead of going straw-man here?

I also point out that the concept good and bad are universal, everyone, every culture, religion have the idea of good and bad but the applications are relative. What's seen as good to you might be bad to another.

I gave example from Islam laws, e.g beating disobedient wives, killing gays, killing apostates, stoning adulterers etc these are seen as wrong and bad to people like me but seen as good by Muslims.

Going straw-man, red herring, non sequitur and ad hominem is not an healthy thing in an argument, they are fallacies, let's know what to use in an argument Which is focusing on the premises given.

tintingz:
It seems you dont know what skepticism means, you just post things with ignorance. Skepticism is used in acquiring knowledge, seek for the truth, skepticism is used in many field be it science, court, politics etc.

Oxford dictionary defines scepticism thus:

scepticism

(North American skepticism)
NOUN
mass noun

1. A sceptical attitude; doubt as to the truth of something.
‘these claims were treated with scepticism’

2. Philosophy
The theory that certain knowledge is impossible.
‘Cartesian scepticism’

In Mariam-Webster:

Definition of skepticism

1 : an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object

2. a : the doctrine that true knowledge or knowledge in a particular area is uncertain
b : the method of suspended judgment, systematic doubt, or criticism characteristic of skeptics

3 : doubt concerning basic religious principles (such as immortality, providence, and revelation)

In your favorite website wiki we have the following:

Definition[edit]

In ordinary usage, skepticism (US) or scepticism (UK) (Greek: 'σκέπτομαι' skeptomai, to search, to think about or look for; see also spelling differences) can refer to:

In philosophy, skepticism can refer to:

1. a mode of inquiry that emphasizes critical scrutiny, caution, and intellectual rigor;
2. a method of obtaining knowledge through systematic doubt and continual testing;
3. a set of claims about the limitations of human knowledge and the proper response to such limitations.

When you are in a religious section, and asking people to be sceptic, what kind of scepticism are you speaking of?! If you claim that scepticism is about acquiring knowledge, and seeking for the truth, then how does this knowledge and truth come to be?! What is the truth?! If you claim it is about scientific scepticism, then that only deals with observable phenomena, and once the phenomena cannot be observed, then it becomes philosophical,and here I brought forth what authoritative conclusion of a philosophical sceptic (David Hume). Science has its limits, and once science reaches its limit, speculations are made in the name of theories, and that my friend isn't science, but pseudoscience! For your information, science use scepticism to be objective, and to falsify theories (which are largely philosophical). Science has a standard of what it considers to be right or wrong, based on empirical evidences, it continues to test based on this standard of observation and experimentation (the scientific method). But you have no standard, you yourself claim that what is right is relative!

tintingz:

The bedrock of modern science is not religion but skepticism, the Europeans started the modern scientific revolution, the Greeks are the founder of scientific revolution, the medeival muslim conquest of the persians, egypts, Byzantine empire around 800-1429 made the muslims gain access to their works and influenced by it, many of the works of the medieval muslims Scientists lack innovation, while some scholars said while it produce innovation, it did not lead to a scientific revolution! The muslim scientific revolution stopped around that period.

This is balderdash! Yeah the Europeans just picked up science from thin air right?! I can't help but laugh at this your history of Muslim scientists, they lack innovation?! Being an atheist does not mean you should always find ways to discredit religious people na, you are being a fanatical atheist. Just to keep things in proper perspective:

"An intellectual revitalization of Europe started with the birth of medieval universities in the 12th century. The contact with the Islamic world in Spain and Sicily, and during the Reconquista and the Crusades, allowed Europeans access to scientific Greek and Arabic texts, including the works of Aristotle, Ptolemy, Jābir ibn Hayyān, al-Khwarizmi, Alhazen, Avicenna, and Averroes. European scholars had access to the translation programs of Raymond of Toledo, who sponsored the 12th century Toledo School of Translators from Arabic to Latin. Later translators like Michael Scotus would learn Arabic in order to study these texts directly. The European universities aided materially in the translation and propagation of these texts and started a new infrastructure which was needed for scientific communities. In fact, European university put many works about the natural world and the study of nature at the center of its curriculum, with the result that the "medieval university laid far greater emphasis on science than does its modern counterpart and descendent." (wiki)

The bedrock of modern science is religion, and Muslims played a major role in this, and some of these Muslim scientist's contributions are still much relevant till today!

tintingz:

Right is relative which might be wrong to you, saying i am right in an argument is egoistic, but making people reason and question things is the best way for people to know the truth themselves.

If your right is different from my own right after these reasoning and questioning, then why would you be angry and intolerant of these subjective conclusions which are contrary to yours?! Each individual has their personal reason for their decisions, since you do not have a standard of what is right or wrong, then you have no right to condemn! Even if they believe in fairy tales! So again, you cannot give what you do not have!

tintingz:

You are posting someone's problem and making it a fact. Dude haba!

Are you saying there are no religious people with this problems? Psychosis like you called it?

This is not someone's problem, but a problem inherent in scepticism, especially when it is philosophical. You hide under science, but science has limitations, the other day I was asking you about the big bang and if observable when science said they have little or no knowledge about what happened immediately after the big bang, this makes any conclusion about the events of the big bang mere speculations, philosophical, which if subjected to the rigor of scepticism, would eventually lead to "psychosis". Let me help you further get the perspective:

"The skeptics began as philosophers who were determined to live by the dictates of philosophical theory, no matter what those dictates were. Their happiness depended entirely on possessing the correct theory of nature and of good life. But they soon discovered that for every theory of reality supported by philosophical reasons, they could find a contrary theory equally well supported, and so they were forced to suspend judgment. This led to depression." (Philosophical Melancholy and Delirium: Hume’s Pathology of Philosophy by Donald W. Livingston)

This actually reminds me of your favourite line, "science is yet to know" yeah, perpetual uncertainty!

tintingz:

Scientists are skeptics, why are you having problem with skepticism? i asked you in my previous post, between gullibility and skepticism, which leads to enlightenment and truth?

I do not have a problem with scientific scepticism, but we are talking about religion here, the existence of God, the reality of beliefs, this is philosophical. As noted already, science has its limits, even when it comes to observable phenomena.

tintingz:

Psychosis is when you talk to a fairy entity and thinks he is hearing you calling it prayers, imagine praying this way "oh gravity gravity gravity protect me or facing a direction and chanting gravity is mighty, gravity is mighty", thats insanity.

Are you certain that this God who those who worship and pray to every day and their prayers answered (remember, subjective right) does not exist?! If I tell you that I have experienced this (answered prayers) and still do, am I wrong?! If yes, why?!

tintingz:

Skepticism is doubting and questioning things to gain more knowledge about things around you.

Yes I know, you doubt, you question, but you are still uncertain of the answers too, so you keep doubting...And it continues...

tintingz:

Imagine coming to you that there is an invisible giant tea pot revolving round the earth, wont you doubt and question me, is that not being skeptical?

Of course I would, but what would be my basis of this scepticism?! Why should I continue to be sceptical if you claim knowledge which I do not have?! Why should I believe you?!

You do believe whatever the scientist tell you, you didn't observe any red shift or saw how the expansion of the galaxies are moving, but you trust these scientist as credible people, but unfortunately, there have been reports of doctored scientific research, and sentimental reporting not to even mention the fact that what was being observed might have been incorrectly interpreted, yet you still believe! Why?!

On the other hand, I have the Qur'an, the Prophet (SAW) was not a fairy tale, his existence is confirmed, his story was reported and recorded, he was known to be truthful and honest, a man of integrity, he didn't claim to be God, he struggled to spread a message of this one God, to worship and be righteous. He wasn't enriching himself or his family, he didn't even have a heir to inherit him after his demise. He was able to transform a barbaric group of people into a vibrant and civilized people. The message of Islam is not in conflict with man's nature, we seek answers to fundamental question with regards to life and purpose, we are at convinced and contended with what we have found, and we believe!

tintingz:

Actually, religious terrorists pray daily, i guess prayer is impotent to them.

One can be nice, kind, forgiving without prayers or religion, your empathy can do that, if your kindness is because of prayer, i dont think such person is genuinely kind.

I dont pray and i still show kindness to people, that's humanism.

Good for you, but that does not discredit the scientific findings! You may as well start your research from here, go look for terrorist and test, then come back to give us your findings!

tintingz:

How many Muslim scientists have changed the world? I applaud the medieval Muslim scientists but they didn't actually made the scientific revolution of today.

Science and scientist build on previous knowledge, and I am authoritatively telling you that Muslim scientists were the foundation of modern science!

At this juncture, the remainder of your responses only consolidates my assertions, which is authoritatively supported by philosophical skeptics I had quoted earlier, there is no iota of intellectual reasoning behind them, you are filled with hate and pessimism, you are intolerant and a whiner! You do not want to take responsibility for your inadequacies and so scared of the consequences. You only see doom and gloom in the world and this shows in your line of questioning, you do not have answers, you do not have hope, you are just venting your frustration online, there is no fastest way to depression and psychosis than this. You can't help yourself, talk more of helping others, you said your motive is the world, and you think this line of questioning is what the world needs?! Well good Luck on your quest! Come back here when you have achieved your aim! I will be the first to congratulate you!

The Muslims and the Scientific Method

Muslim scholars, between the 10th and 14th centuries, were the prime movers behind the development of the scientific method.

They were the first to use experiment and observation as the basis of science, and many historians regard science as starting during this period.


Amongst the array of great scholars, al-Haytham is regarded as the architect of the scientific method. His scientific method involved the following stages:

1.Observation of the natural world

2.Stating a definite problem

3.Formulating a robust hypothesis

4.Test the hypothesis through experimentation

5.Assess and analyze the results

6.Interpret the data and draw conclusions

7.Publish the findings

These steps are very similar to the modern scientific method and they became the basis of Western science during the Renaissance.

Al-Haytham even insisted upon repeatability and the replication of results, and other scholars added ideas such as peer review and made great leaps in understanding the natural world.

Europe and the Renaissance

The question of who invented the scientific method shifts to Europe as the Renaissance began and the wisdom of the Greeks and Arabs helped Europe out of the Dark Ages.

Roger Bacon (1214 - 1284) is credited as the first scholar to promote inductive reasoning as part of the scientific method.

Here, findings from an experiment are generalized to the wider world, a process used by almost all modern scientists. His version of the Islamic scientific method involved four major steps, which lie at the root of our modern method.


•Observation

•Hypothesis

•Experiment

•Verification

This process continued with the Enlightenment, with Francis Bacon (1561 - 1626) and Descartes (1596 - 1650). Francis Bacon continued the work of his Renaissance namesake, strengthening the inductive process. His method became:
•Empirical Observations

•Systematic Experiments

•Analyzing Experimental Evidence

•Inductive Reasoning

Bacon's inductive method was a way of relating observations to the universe and natural phenomena through establishing cause and effect.

Descartes broke away from the model of induction and reasoning and again proposed that deduction was the only way to learn and understand, harking back to Plato. His method was almost the reverse of induction:
•
Establish First Principles

•
Deductive Reasoning

•
Interpretation

•
Mathematical Analysis

Descartes believed that the entire universe was a perfect machine and that, if you knew the first principles, derived from mathematical proofs.

As an example, he deduced that planets revolved around the sun because they were floating in a liquid 'ether' filling space!

Newton and the Modern Scientific Method

Any discussion about who invented the scientific method must include Isaac Newton, as the scientist who refined the process into one that we use today.

He was the first to realise that scientific discovery needed both induction and deduction, a revolution in the scientific method that took science into the modern age.

After Newton

There were many other great thinkers who refined the scientific method, including Einstein, Russell, Popper and Feyerabend, amongst a whole host of other great thinkers.

However, it may no longer be correct to talk of the 'scientific method,' rather the 'Physics Method' or the 'Psychology Method,' because each scientific discipline has started to use its own methodology and terminology.

However, it is an old quote, but Newton's statement that, 'If I see further, it is only because I stand upon the shoulder of giants', is very apt when looking at who invented the scientific method.

All of these great thinkers, and many others beside, had a great influence upon determining the course of modern science as we know it.

So, when you ask 'Who invented the Scientific Method?" the answer is no-one, as the scientific method is in a state of constant evolution and modification.

Sadly, if you were looking for a simple answer that will fit into the short answer section of a test, you will not find it here!

https://explorable.com/who-invented-the-scientific-method