I saw this video (in parts) about a year ago and since then made a mental note to bring it to the attention of the atheists in this forum. I think the issues raised in the video should give any sincere minded atheist (if there's anything like that) something to think about. 

Its an investigation carried out by a former atheist into the issue of intelligent design/neo-darwinism.

The video is a long one and depending on the speed of your internet connection. . . it might take a while. So I suggest you get some popcorn guguru & epa. 

I think its worth the wait. 


The Case for the Creator


[flash=600,500]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=688111496234161611&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>[/flash]


Here's the link to the video - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=688111496234161611&ei=pqyrS-DMBo7o-Qa0oMzLBg&q=the+case+fo+a+creator#

Moderators,

How can I embed videos here?

I will be watching this video and posting my own comments too. I've watched some of Lee Strobel's videos and the man is simply a treasure trove into how the mind of the atheist works.

davidylan:

I will be watching this video and posting my own comments too. I've watched some of Lee Strobel's videos and the man is simply a treasure trove into how the mind of the atheist works.

Couldn't agree more!

I just wish all atheists would have the courage to do what he did - just follow the evidence!!!

davidylan:

I will be watching this video and posting my own comments too.

Your comments are welcome too!

Just dat I can't wait to see the mental gymnastics (according to mazaje) the atheists are going to perform here in defence of their worldview, in spite of the new evidence. They really do believe that the universe "popped out of their arses" (my favourite quote by Deep Sight).

The endless appeal to inteligent desing again eh?. . . Your evidence to show that the god the white people brought to your great gand parents is the one that created the universe is WHAT?. . . . .

mazaje1:

The endless appeal to inteligent desing again eh?. . . Your evidence to show that the god the white people brought to your great gand parents is the one that created the universe is WHAT?. . . . .

and your evidence that intelligent design doesnt exist is what?

mazaje1:

The endless appeal to inteligent desing again eh?. . . Your evidence to show that the god the white people brought to your great gand parents is the one that created the universe is WHAT?. . . . .

Mazaje,

For now (this thread), lets just focus on the first part/question - whether or not the universe came out of nowhere by itself, without any intelligence behind it, which (I hope I'm correct) is the view of every atheist, right?

We can talk about which God/god did later.

So please o.  .  .  I hope you really can find the time to watch the video for yourself. Your comments/contributions here will be highly appreciated.

Thanx!  

davidylan:

and your evidence that intelligent design doesnt exist is what?

@david please. . . I don't want this to turn into another free for all.

I just want them to watch the video and bring their refutations here and we'll talk.

Thanks a bunch!

Petres here you go. Click reply and quote this post to see the appropriate code/format.
[flash=600,500]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=688111496234161611&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>[/flash]

petres_007:

@david please. . . I don't want this to turn into another free for all.

I just want them to watch the video and bring their refutations here and we'll talk.

Thanks a bunch!

alright, i'll just keep quiet and wait.

davidylan:

alright, i'll just keep quiet and wait.

Thanks bros!

JeSoul:

Petres here you go. Click reply and quote this post to see the appropriate code/format.
[flash=600,500]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=688111496234161611&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>[/flash]

Thanks Jesoul. I've dood it!

I'll watch the video and post my comments after watching it. . . . .

mazaje1:

I'll watch the video and post my comments after watching it. . . . .

Thanks a bunch bros! I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Is it intelligence to deliberately incorporate fatal flaws in one's design?

huxley:

Is it intelligence to deliberately incorporate fatal flaws in one's design?

Welcome Huxley!

We haven't gotten to the part where you guys can start displaying your evasive acrobatics yet 

If its not too much to ask, lets just focus on discussing whether or not there's intelligence behind creation or not. 

Thanks!

watched 37 mins already and i've got slack jaws already. this is some explosive stuff. Everyone including christians need to watch this. If you still doubt the awesomeness of Christ after this then i dont know what else to say.

Would definitely watch the video tommorrow when i get to work. Then i will make my comment(s).

I just finished watching the video.

Its good to see christians embracing science in the video with the big bang theory explained and the timeline of billions of years of evolution on this planet. They even acknowledge the fact that the cambrian explosion happened 530 million years ago. This contradicts the 6000 year old earth from the bible creation story in genesis.
As an atheist, I and other scientists do not claim to have all the answers. I think that this is the misunderstanding that theists have about science. Scientists are searching for answers, nobody knows yet what caused the big bang or the first micro organisms to form on this planet.
I think it is arrogant and intellectually dishonest to conclude that because the answer has not yet been discovered that a god must have done it. And that that god is yehweh as opposed to all the other gods that people have believed in. There are thousands of different faith based supernatural creation stories all over the world.
The analagy in the video that a cell is an irreducibly complex machine is a good one. However, machines evolve. For instance, an iphone would be an irreducibly complex machine to the most intelligent brains 200 years ago. Even if they took it apart, they still would not understand how it works until they had discovered the laws of electromagnetism, semiconductors, microprocessors, chemistry etc. The iphone has evolved from a simple telegram system 150 years ago into a machine that would be seen as irreducibly complex and impossible to understand back then.

As shown by the 24 hour timeline in the video, simple cells were evolving for billions of years up to the 21st hour before one finally mutated into the right complex combination to flourish on this planet.
We are the end product of billions of years of evolution and have not yet discovered all the answers. Only in the last hundred years have we just discovered our own biology and our place in this vast cosmos. There is so much more to be discovered. Lets not jump to premature conclusions based on our own ignorance.

As a christian, do you still believe that the earth is literally 6000 years old or 4.5 billion years old?
And do you really believe that a talking snake deceived a unclothed woman in a perfect garden as told in the book of genesis?

Respects

mantraa:

As a christian, do you still believe that the earth is literally 6000 years old or 4.5 billion years old?

I don't even have to watch the video to know that it can't explain away this point

Good point by mantraa, god as a conscious would definitely, have a beginning and a cause for his consciousness. Besides, why would supergod need a design? What limitations is he trying to adapt to? If he can create unicorns, and manna fall from heaven, then why is life so complex.

pardon me petres007

mantraa:

I just finished watching the video.

Its good to see christians embracing science in the video with the big bang theory explained and the timeline of billions of years of evolution on this planet. They even acknowledge the fact that the cambrian explosion happened 530 million years ago. This contradicts the 6000 year old earth from the bible creation story in genesis.

Actually nowhere in the bible did it claim that the earth is 6000 yrs old. Search the bible, that figure is NOT bandied anywhere. Infact the books of Genesis and Jeremiah make a clear case for a world that was definitely much much older than we think and was clearly inhabited by other organism before the creation of man.

mantraa:

As an atheist, I and other scientists do not claim to have all the answers. I think that this is the misunderstanding that theists have about science. Scientists are searching for answers, nobody knows yet what caused the big bang or the first micro organisms to form on this planet.
I think it is arrogant and intellectually dishonest to conclude that because the answer has not yet been discovered that a god must have done it. And that that god is yehweh as opposed to all the other gods that people have believed in. There are thousands of different faith based supernatural creation stories all over the world.

I'm not sure you clearly understood what conclusions the scientists in that video were making. They were not declaring God to be the creator of the earth BECAUSE they had no other evidence for anything else. Actually they reached their conclusions for divine providence BASED on scientific evidence showing the earth CANNOT have appeared by chance and MUST have been the handiwork of some intelligent force and for a particular purpose.

mantraa:

The analagy in the video that a cell is an irreducibly complex machine is a good one. However, machines evolve. For instance, an iphone would be an irreducibly complex machine to the most intelligent brains 200 years ago. Even if they took it apart, they still would not understand how it works until they had discovered the laws of electromagnetism, semiconductors, microprocessors, chemistry etc. The iphone has evolved from a simple telegram system 150 years ago into a machine that would be seen as irreducibly complex and impossible to understand back then.

Again you seem not to have watched the same video i did. Firstly the analogy of the iphone is totally wrong. The iphone is itself composed of several stand-alone parts. The cell is the single-smallest unit of life . . . it is the building blocks for every complex organism on earth. One of the scientists makes a salient point . . . if you put acell in a dish containing every condition for its survival . . . that cell thrives. However if you puncture this cell such that its contents leak out into the surrounding liquid, that liquid will still contain EVERY condition conducive for the existence of a cell, it will also contain EVERY component for a cell but it CANNOT on its own generate a new living cell.

The cell (unlike the iphone) isnt evolving into anything new. The same cell that cannot be created will still NOT be created in 2000 yrs of trying.

mantraa:

As shown by the 24 hour timeline in the video, simple cells were evolving for billions of years up to the 21st hour before one finally mutated into the right complex combination to flourish on this planet.

That is flat out WRONG. The scientist there was explaining the cambrian explosion . . . according to this theory, simple single-celled organisms were around for millions of yrs until all of a sudden you get a huge bunch of highly complex organisms. If (as you claim) cells were evolving until they mutated into complex organisms there SHOULD BE intermediate life forms present in the fossil record. This absence of intermediates is what condemns Darwin's theory of evolution as a farce.

mantraa:

We are the end product of billions of years of evolution and have not yet discovered all the answers. Only in the last hundred years have we just discovered our own biology and our place in this vast cosmos. There is so much more to be discovered. Lets not jump to premature conclusions based on our own ignorance.

We still wont discover any new answers . . . because there really are none.

mantraa:

As a christian, do you still believe that the earth is literally 6000 years old or 4.5 billion years old?

No christian with a good grasp of his bible will tell you the earth is only 6000 yrs old.

mantraa:

And do you really believe that a talking snake deceived a unclothed woman in a perfect garden as told in the book of genesis?

It takes more faith to believe that the earth appeared by chance than to believe a snake spoke in a garden. Besides the bible records that a SERPENT spoke to eve, NOT a snake as is erroneously claimed.

mantraa:

Respects

Respects to you too bro.

mantraa:

I just finished watching the video.

Its good to see christians embracing science in the video with the big bang theory explained and the timeline of billions of years of evolution on this planet. They even acknowledge the fact that the cambrian explosion happened 530 million years ago. This contradicts the 6000 year old earth from the bible creation story in genesis.
As an atheist, I and other scientists do not claim to have all the answers. I think that this is the misunderstanding that theists have about science. Scientists are searching for answers, nobody knows yet what caused the big bang or the first micro organisms to form on this planet.
I think it is arrogant and intellectually dishonest to conclude that because the answer has not yet been discovered that a god must have done it. And that that god is yehweh as opposed to all the other gods that people have believed in. There are thousands of different faith based supernatural creation stories all over the world.
The analagy in the video that a cell is an irreducibly complex machine is a good one. However, machines evolve. For instance, an iphone would be an irreducibly complex machine to the most intelligent brains 200 years ago. Even if they took it apart, they still would not understand how it works until they had discovered the laws of electromagnetism, semiconductors, microprocessors, chemistry etc. The iphone has evolved from a simple telegram system 150 years ago into a machine that would be seen as irreducibly complex and impossible to understand back then.

As shown by the 24 hour timeline in the video, simple cells were evolving for billions of years up to the 21st hour before one finally mutated into the right complex combination to flourish on this planet.
We are the end product of billions of years of evolution and have not yet discovered all the answers. Only in the last hundred years have we just discovered our own biology and our place in this vast cosmos. There is so much more to be discovered. Lets not jump to premature conclusions based on our own ignorance.

As a christian, do you still believe that the earth is literally 6000 years old or 4.5 billion years old?
And do you really believe that a talking snake deceived a unclothed woman in a perfect garden as told in the book of genesis?

Respects

@Mantraa,

Thanks a bunch for your input! But I'd like for us to take it one step at a time, please. One step at a time.

The scientists (except for Strobel himself) in the video (which I urge you to watch one more time) were simply drawing their conclusions based on scientific evidence that point powerfully toward the fact that some intelligence of some sort must have been involved in the creation/existence of the universe. Not that Yahweh or anyone else did it.

Its true Strobel is a Christian now and so the video has a Christian "flavour" to it but I implore you guys to please ignore that for now and lets focus on the fact there is overwhelming evidence that there certainly was some kind of intelligence & purpose involved in creation.

I hope to start other threads about which "god" or "gods" (as mazaje insinuated in anothe thread) did create the universe or which one is most likely to have done it.

davidylan:


Actually nowhere in the bible did it claim that the earth is 6000 yrs old. Search the bible, that figure is NOT bandied anywhere. Infact the books of Genesis and Jeremiah make a clear case for a world that was definitely much much older than we think and was clearly inhabited by other organism before the creation of man.

I'm not sure you clearly understood what conclusions the scientists in that video were making. They were not declaring God to be the creator of the earth BECAUSE they had no other evidence for anything else. Actually they reached their conclusions for divine providence BASED on scientific evidence showing the earth CANNOT have appeared by chance and MUST have been the handiwork of some intelligent force and for a particular purpose.

Again you seem not to have watched the same video i did. Firstly the analogy of the iphone is totally wrong. The iphone is itself composed of several stand-alone parts. The cell is the single-smallest unit of life . . . it is the building blocks for every complex organism on earth. One of the scientists makes a salient point . . . if you put acell in a dish containing every condition for its survival . . . that cell thrives. However if you puncture this cell such that its contents leak out into the surrounding liquid, that liquid will still contain EVERY condition conducive for the existence of a cell, it will also contain EVERY component for a cell but it CANNOT on its own generate a new living cell.

The cell (unlike the iphone) isnt evolving into anything new. The same cell that cannot be created will still NOT be created in 2000 yrs of trying.

That is flat out WRONG. The scientist there was explaining the cambrian explosion . . . according to this theory, simple single-celled organisms were around for millions of yrs until all of a sudden you get a huge bunch of highly complex organisms. If (as you claim) cells were evolving until they mutated into complex organisms there SHOULD BE intermediate life forms present in the fossil record. This absence of intermediates is what condemns Darwin's theory of evolution as a farce.

We still wont discover any new answers . . . because there really are none.

No christian with a good grasp of his bible will tell you the earth is only 6000 yrs old.

[b]It takes more faith to believe that the earth appeared by chance than to believe a snake spoke in a garden. [/b]Besides the bible records that a SERPENT spoke to eve, NOT a snake as is erroneously claimed.

Respects to you too bro.

God bless you for this excellent response bro!

davidylan:

pardon me petres007

You're pardoned! At least you did it without any sarcasm or stuff like that

mantraa:


As a christian, do you still believe that the earth is literally 6000 years old or 4.5 billion years old?
And do you really believe that a talking snake deceived a unclothed woman in a perfect garden as told in the book of genesis?

@mantraa,

Like David pointed out, there's no where in the bible where it says the earth is just 6000 years old. Its true there are a lot of things Christians get wrong, the bible doesn't contain all there is to know about God, the unviese, the earth etc.

I'm still expecting responses from all the other athiests in the house; Mazaje (who's been here), Tudor, Huxley, Wirinet & co. Please take sometime out and watch the video, carefully. And then bring your refutation here (trusting that you won't believe whats presented in the video).

Thanx

P.S. Like daviddylan mentioned, I think Christians need to watch the video too. . . so please.

I have watched the video and here are my thoughts on the video. . . .Lee Stroble is a journalist who knows how to cook a story. His idea of investigation is very one sided. Whereas the first rule of journalism is present both sides of the issue without choosing a side. It shouldn't matter if one is an atheist or christian, if you are a journalist the storyline should be neutral. He did not interview any atheist or non christian scientist, I saw him interview Christian scientist from the discovery institute and William Craig who was telling outright lies and saying things that scientist and cosmologist NEVER said. He began by first trying to say that atheist are bad people as usual . . .He claimed that his wife became a good person and started living a good life when she became a christian. . . . . . . . .

To the video and what it talks about. . . .This video is just a video that tries to discredit the scientific explanation for the origin of the universe and species with out providing any counter evidence to show that the god of the bible created the universe, It just says that the universe was created and god of the bible did it with out explaining how or why?. . . .The first 10 minutes focuses on one of science's greatest strengths. The undoing of a very suggestive experiment by continued experimentation.

I'm talking about the Miller-Urey experiments of the 1950's that developed amino acids by sparking chemicals in a closed environment based on the atmosphere then thought to be the atmosphere of the early earth. Later, scientists changed their minds, based on further work, and posited that there wasn't near the hydrogen in the atmosphere of the early earth as originally thought (and which Miller-Urey was based on). . . . . .

The video suggests, Miller-Urey prove nothing and "god exists." Instead of going forward into the latest theories about how life developed on earth, that developed after Miller-Urey, the video goes backward to Oparin and the 1920s. Lovely. . . . . .What the video ignores is that as experiments continued into the 1970s and 80s, a whole new theory of life developed based on anaerobic life around ocean vents possibly being the spark of life. The ocean vent theory is by now fairly advanced, but, of course is ignored in the video. . . . . .

Then the video criticizes Darwin because Darwin had a little drawing in origin showing a tree of life. The video then says the fossil record does not show transitional forms, emphasizing particularly the cambrian era. . . . Criticizing the fossil record is an old tried and true creationist tactic. What the video doesn't tell the viewer is that, in fact, significant numbers of transitional fossils have been found (for example, the whale, birds, humans). I mean, fossil science has really only been around in a serious way for about 200 years now. The video completely ignores the fact that new, hitherto unknown fossils are found literally every 3 or 4 months. . . . . .

Then the video spins off on the big bang, suggesting that the idea that the universe popped out of nowhere implies it was created. The sophist William Craig came on and started lying about what science did NOT even say. . . He said that according to modern day cosmology the universe came into existence out of nothing . . .Science does NOT say that the universe came out of nothing it says that the universe started expanding from a singularity. . . .Was the Big Bang dependent on something else? Maybe on the original singularity. But is there anybody who knows what the singularity is dependent on? The singularity might have been dependent on something else. . . . No body knows. . . .

petres_007:

@mantraa,

Like David pointed out, there's no where in the bible where it says the earth is just 6000 years old. Its true there are a lot of things Christians get wrong, the bible doesn't contain all there is to know about God, the unviese, the earth etc.

P.S. Like daviddylan mentioned, I think Christians need to watch the video too. . . so please.

These kind of assumptions are the reasons a lot of us (Christians) get into error when reading our own meanings into scriptures.  Has it occured to you that if God had written anywhere in the Bible that was inspired almost 2000 years ago with the words or figures that the earth was created 6,000 years that it would have been outdated by the time we read them today?  If God said 6,000 years 2,000 years ago how many years would it be  would it be when we read it today?

The age of the earth debate ultimately comes down to this foundational question: Are we trusting in man's imperfect and changing ideas and assumptions about the past?  Or are we trusting God's perfectly accurate eyewitness account of the past?

This would be a topic for another thread as I do not want to divert folks away from the topic at hand.

petres_007:

@Mantraa,

Thanks a bunch for your input! But I'd like for us to take it one step at a time, please. One step at a time.

The scientists (except for Strobel himself) in the video (which I urge you to watch one more time) were simply drawing their conclusions based on scientific evidence that point powerfully toward the fact that some intelligence of some sort must have been involved in the creation/existence of the universe. Not that Yahweh or anyone else did it.

The video was so one sided and made claims that scientist never made. . .William Craig was there lying that cosmologist say that the universe came out of nothing. . . .That is FALSE . . .The universe was not created out of nothing. The big bang states that there was a singularity that expanded, but it was certainly not "nothing". What it was is a singularity, where it came from is what no one really knows. But saying "nothing from nothing" is a nothing more than a straw man used by creationists like Craig. . . .Science doesn't make assumptions unnecessarily, it follows the scientific method. If a god or creator with human attributes doesn't fit into the scientific method then it gets left out of the theory.    

Its true Strobel is a Christian now and so the video has a Christian "flavour" to it but I implore you guys to please ignore that for now and lets focus on the fact there is overwhelming evidence that there certainly was some kind of intelligence & purpose involved in creation.

What is the purpose of the universe? William Craig said that the universe was created for life. How so?. . .If the universe is created for life then why is life found and can only thrive only on some parts of the earth? There could be life else where in other planets since there are gazillions of them, no body knows but was not created for life since life can only survive in a very very small part of the universe. . .Life can not even survive outside space on its own without special man made gadgets. . . .

What purpose do the gazillions of stars serve? What purpose does a star serves since all stars come into existence, live for a very long time explode, destroy themselves and all the planets that orbit them. . . .What's the purpose of colliding asteroids, comets and other space bodies? Whats the purpose of the dwarf planets like pluto and others like it that are found in our solar system? Whats the purpose of so many other empty(with out life) solar systems that have been found with planets orbiting them?. . . .Whats the purpose of the ever expanding galaxies?. . . .What is the purpose of the expanding universe?. . . . .   

I hope to start other threads about which "god" or "gods" (as mazaje insinuated in anothe thread) did create the universe or which one is most likely to have done it.

I will like you to provide evidence and prove to us that Yahweh alone created the universe and not oneness of infinity. . . .

OLAADEGBU:

These kind of assumptions are the reasons a lot of us (Christians) get into error when reading our own meanings into scriptures.  Has it occured to you that if God had written anywhere in the Bible that was inspired almost 2000 years ago with the words or figures that the earth was created 6,000 years that it would have been outdated by the time we read them today?  If God said 6,000 years 2,000 years ago how many years would it be  would it be when we read it today?

The age of the earth debate ultimately comes down to this foundational question: Are we trusting in man's imperfect and changing ideas and assumptions about the past?  Or are we trusting God's perfectly accurate eyewitness account of the past?

This would be a topic for another thread as I do not want to divert folks away from the topic at hand. 

Davidylan says that according to the bible, the universe is not 6,000 years old. . . .He also claimed that the bible says that the books of Genesis and Jeremiah make a clear case for a world that was definitely much much older than we think and was clearly inhabited by other organism before the creation of man, What do you have to say about these since you believe that according to the bible the universe is only 6000 years old. . .

mazaje1:

I have watched the video and here are my thoughts on the video. . . .Lee Stroble is a journalist who knows how to cook a story. His idea of investigation is very one sided. Whereas the first rule of journalism is present both sides of the issue without choosing a side. It shouldn't matter if one is an atheist or christian, if you are a journalist the storyline should be neutral. He did not interview any atheist or non christian scientist, I saw him interview Christian scientist from the discovery institute and William Craig who was telling outright lies and saying things that scientist and cosmologist NEVER said. He began by first trying to say that atheist are bad people as usual . . .He claimed that his wife became a good person and started living a good life when she became a christian. . . . . . . . .

To the video and what it talks about. . . .This video is just a video that tries to discredit the scientific explanation for the origin of the universe and species with out providing any counter evidence to show that the god of the bible created the universe, It just says that the universe was created and god of the bible did it with out explaining how or why?. . . .The first 10 minutes focuses on one of science's greatest strengths. The undoing of a very suggestive experiment by continued experimentation.

I'm talking about the Miller-Urey experiments of the 1950's that developed amino acids by sparking chemicals in a closed environment based on the atmosphere then thought to be the atmosphere of the early earth. Later, scientists changed their minds, based on further work, and posited that there wasn't near the hydrogen in the atmosphere of the early earth as originally thought (and which Miller-Urey was based on). . . . . .

The video suggests, Miller-Urey prove nothing and "god exists." Instead of going forward into the latest theories about how life developed on earth, that developed after Miller-Urey, the video goes backward to Oparin and the 1920s. Lovely. . . . . .What the video ignores is that as experiments continued into the 1970s and 80s, a whole new theory of life developed based on anaerobic life around ocean vents possibly being the spark of life. The ocean vent theory is by now fairly advanced, but, of course is ignored in the video. . . . . .

Then the video criticizes Darwin because Darwin had a little drawing in origin showing a tree of life. The video then says the fossil record does not show transitional forms, emphasizing particularly the cambrian era. . . . Criticizing the fossil record is an old tried and true creationist tactic. What the video doesn't tell the viewer is that, in fact, significant numbers of transitional fossils have been found (for example, the whale, birds, humans). I mean, fossil science has really only been around in a serious way for about 200 years now. The video completely ignores the fact that new, hitherto unknown fossils are found literally every 3 or 4 months. . . . . .

Then the video spins off on the big bang, suggesting that the idea that the universe popped out of nowhere implies it was created. The sophist William Craig came on and started lying about what science did NOT even say. . . He said that according to modern day cosmology the universe came into existence out of nothing . . .Science does NOT say that the universe came out of nothing it says that the universe started expanding from a singularity. . . .Was the Big Bang dependent on something else? Maybe on the original singularity. But is there anybody who knows what the singularity is dependent on? The singularity might have been dependent on something else. . . . No body knows. . . . 

ol boy ehhhhh. . . see enuf acrobatics

I know say you no go disappoint me

petres_007:

ol boy ehhhhh. . . see enuf acrobatics

I know say you no go disappoint me

Can you point to the acrobatics and lets discuss it. . .Thank you. . . .

@mazaje,

One question for you, since you've seen the video: do you still think there's no intelligence behind the creation/existence of the universe? Did nothing in the video sound credible enough to at least make you look into the possibility that the universe really was created?