UnknownT:
Pharoah instructed the Egyptian midwives to kill any male child that was born by any hebrew woman but let the female child live. But the Egyptian midwives feared God and never wanted to be a part of Pharoah's plan, so they kept delivering both male and female, when Pharoah noticed, he asked but they "lied" to him that the Hebrew women delivered their children before they the midwives could come around.

you can lie!!!

pyyxxaro:
Where her hubby de when the pastor de deceive the woman

not all wives are open to their husbands

pyyxxaro:
Where her hubby de when the pastor de deceive the woman

and besides some pple place religious leaders above everything in their life, it is always" my pastor said"

Sometimes, when I see Pastors leading prayers against caeserian section in churches, I can't help being *weak*. We attach religious sentiments to almost everything we do but we are some of the most evil pple on earth. In the name of religious belief and obedience of her Pastor's words, this woman has lost her life. I am sure she is somewhere up there now blaming herself for dumbly following her Pastor's advice. The way some Pastors will burn in hell Ehn, they will think hell fire was invented solely for them. I've seen a lot of people die uselessly cos of inability to separate religion from reality. GOD is watching and laughing at some pple.

Fourwinds:
you can lie!!!

Are you okay?

Na so one person con dey give stupid testimony one day. He talk say him tyres burst as he was trying to park by the road side while traveling. He himself said it that the tyres were already old and just held together by "threads". The yeye Pastor too con dey dance with the man instead of getting a good cane for the fool and talking some real sense into him. Tyre no good, u carry car put for road and u con dey give testimony say God protect u. If that man died, dem go talk say na devil do him.

arinzest:
Pity many do not understand the sad reality of our healthcare system.

As an obstetrician, I have seen women die or become horribly messed up due to religion. The pastor that quotes Hebrew women to you, what of his wife? Did the silly woman actually read this passage she was scammed out of her life with?

Women die in childbirth in this country a lot and religion contributes a lot. From the Muslim woman that will not permit vaginal examination during fasting to the Jehovah witness dying in hypovolemic shock but refusing blood. It's a pity.

For some asking for the doctor's license, you are wrong. No doctor can operate on a patient without consent. In developed countries, doctors approach courts to force the patient to have the procedure.

In 2008, a consultant got a judge to authorize blood transfusion to a baby of Jehovah witness parents in Gwagwalada. He got death threats

Good response. But you need to balance it as well. What about patients who lose their lives due to misdiagnosis, by the doctor? Or those who die, due to medical negligence? Or those who develop complications, as a result of the doctor's inadequate knowledge? Or those who cross over into eternity, due to lack of oxygen in hospitals or lack of the right equipment to sustain life?

I still carry a scar in my left arm, due to a wrong incision carried out by a medical personnel, which later got infected due to their carelessness.

Reelmii:
and besides some pple place religious leaders above everything in their life, it is always" my pastor said"

I'm very sure sef that her family members were in the know about the whole thing. They will be there forming obedient Christian family. �

Bhelamblog:
This is completely Heartbreaking, I Pregnant woman has died because she heed to her pastor's words, who ordered her not to go for C-Section..
For starters, the Doctors told the woman that her baby was on the wrong side of the womb, and so for that he strongly adviced her to go for C-section, But she told him she needed to confirm from her pastor, The Pastor prayed, and told her that she should never try a C-section, Because it is for Non-Christian, that she must give birth like the Hebrew Woman.. But sadly she lost her life, and the baby too.. so sad, her cousin shared the heartbreaking new on SM.

Read below!


News From Ebiwali-- http://www.ebiwalismoment.com/2018/02/heartbreaking-pregnant-woman-dies-after.html

Am sorry, But dats suicide

SpaceAngel:
When I see such news I go nuts. Didn't the pastor see where it is written thou shall not put the Lord to test? God gave the doctors intelligence to heal people and should be used. I'm sure the pastor will use eyeglass if need be or take tablets too. The lady just committed suicide assisted by pastor

It is sad that so many Christians confuse fact and medical treatment, with faithlessness. I do not subscribe to those who ignore their doctor's advice, and rely solely on "exercising their faith," to get healed. How do you know if the degree of faith you have, will be sufficient to turn the situation around, or give rise to your healing??

God gave doctors the knowledge of how to treat illnesses and diseases. God also gave pharmacists, pharmacologists, and scientific researchers - the wisdom, skill and ability to create medicines from herbs and other sources, to treat various ailments. Your part as a Christian, is to follow the doctor's advice, take your medication and pray to God to heal you supernaturally, either by speeding up the healing process in your body, or letting the medications restore your body to its fit and proper state.

Sometimes, a knowledge of the disease helps you to make lifestyle adjustments, that may eventually help you to gain victory over that adverse medical condition. By working hand-in-hand with your doctor, while praying for divine intervention or supernatural healing, you are able to conquer most, (if not all) adverse health conditions that may come your way.

Ezekiel 47:12 | Bible Verse Concepts
"By the river on its bank, on one side and on the other, will grow all kinds of trees for food. Their leaves will not wither and their fruit will not fail They will bear every month because their water flows from the sanctuary, and their fruit will be for food and their leaves for healing."

Hmmn.

BushWickBill:
This saddening thing happens all the time.

I remember as a little boy how a neighbor lost his wife.
She had breast cancer. The diagnosis was surgery to perform a mastectomy.
Husband (a university lecturer o) decided to listen to a prophecy by a so-called prophet that she would be healed.
When her case got worse, they rushed her to UCH but by that time it was too late.

This discarding of the brain when it comes to "God's word" as it were is my problem with Pentecostal Christianity today. I don't doubt the efficacy off God's word. But I think it is being misinterpreted and being thoroughly abused by its paddlers in human form.

So sad

Maybe you ought to doubt the efficacy of God's word for a change.

Didn't the bible indeed state that preachers like Paul etc, cured venomous bites, raised the dead, healed the sick just by casting their shadows on them, chase demons out of mentally ill folks?

And didn't God's word tell us that the Sun stopped for a day, a snake deceived the first woman, Balaam's ass spoke, Jonah survived inside a fish's digestive system for 3 days??

Again, didn't the bible tell us that the rainbow is the symbol of a deal between Yahweh and Noah, that Jesus raised some dude from death 3 days after burial, that some angelic guys may soon appear in the clouds riding on horses and blowing trumpets or that some wholly new and mint city of Jerusalem is going to climb down from Heaven and be planted on planet Earth, complete with its 12 pearly gates and streets of gold and multi-fruit bearing trees

You oughtta doubt every religious book ever written if you have a tiny fraction of your brain still functioning at all.

eyinjuege:
She alone was reaponsible for her living and dying. Their family had 9 months to prepare for the birth of the child. Even if no money for a CS, they had the option of going to a govt hospital, where the prices are cheaper. She chose not to, rather went somewhere else.
It was a conscious informed decision she made, because i believe for her dr to have recommended a CS, he must have told her why.
Unfortunately, she paid with her life. It was however her decision. Personally, i feel it was a stupid decision, but i definitely respect it. It was her life, her death.

Talking of exorbitance of charges for health services, Nigeria is one of the cheapest service providers worldwide.
A normal delivery in the US was about $3000 years ago, if you were paying cash down. And that was even cheap.
You cannot pay cheaply, and expect good service. Anything good comes with a price. Even in systems where healthcare is cheap abroad, someone is paying heavily- those who work and pay taxes.

It irritates the living daylights out of me, whenever I see people comparing cost of services in the US, with Nigeria. Do Nigerians earn the same wages, as workers in the US? How many Nigerians have any form of health insurance, or are even qualified for it? Under the present health insurance schemes, how many cover CS - and at what cost? How many welfare schemes or social services exist to take care of the poor and needy in Nigeria? Please let me stop here - I do not want to lose my temper this afternoon! How many people live below poverty line, in Nigeria? Do not be fooled by the number of SUVs you see in Ikoyi, or Victoria Island area of Lagos state, or the mansions in Maitama, Abuja. A lot of people are poor! Very few are rich!

wirinet:


Ok, but how does this relate to cs? How did this pastor relate this story to Christian women not eligible to undergoing cs?

According to such pastors, women giving birth like the Hebrew women here means that there won't be any complications, they will just give birth naturally

Nigerians are religiously d*umb!! Why would people let cr*ooked pastors dictate their lives?

St*upidity killed the woman!! Doctor told you what must happen for you and your baby's safety. But no, she went to take "permission" from a so-called pastor! How could someone be this id*iotic!! I only feel bad for the unborn baby!!

The c*rooked pastor should be arrested and sent to jail!! Nigerian pastors are all thieves!! Religion is all about Brainwashing, Control and Wealth!!

Nigerian pastors are the richest in the world because there are many m*orons on this country!! You will see a pastor who owns jets, choice cars and mansions everything while majority of his d*umb congregation are poor!!

Some Nigerians sell their properties and hand the money over to their pastor!! They pay "tithes" weekly while the pastor pockets them!

There many proofs that Nigerian pastors are c*rooks but du*mb people don't notice!!

Nwodosis:
If married women can obey their husbands as they obey their pastors, the joy in every marriage will be fulfilled!

very true but did you think of the reason why many do not?

kjhova:


Maybe you ought to doubt the efficacy of God's word for a change.

Didn't the bible indeed state that preachers like Paul etc, cured venomous bites, raised the dead, healed the sick just by casting their shadows on them, chase demons out of mentally ill folks?

And didn't God's word tell us that the Sun stopped for a day, a snake deceived the first woman, Balaam's ass spoke, Jonah survived inside a fish's digestive system for 3 days??

Again, didn't the bible tell us that the rainbow is the symbol of a deal between Yahweh and Noah, that Jesus raised some dude from death 3 days after burial, that some angelic guys may soon appear in the clouds riding on horses and blowing trumpets or that some wholly new and mint city of Jerusalem is going to climb down from Heaven and be planted on planet Earth, complete with its 12 pearly gates and streets of gold and multi-fruit bearing trees

You oughtta doubt every religious book ever written if you have a tiny fraction of your brain still functioning at all.

Oga pls I'm at liberty to believe what I want.
So long as I'm contributing positively to society and I'm not being a nuisance to anybody.

If that is all you picked up from my post, then I actually think you are the one without a functional brain.
Thank you.

UnknownT:
According to such pastors, women giving birth like the Hebrew women here means that there won't be any complications, they will just give birth naturally

Sorry, for pushing this hebrew women matter further, but it still does not make sense to me.
According to such pastors, is it that all hebrew women gives birth naturally, without complications or that only hebrew women that lived in ancient Egypt that always gave birth without complications?

Does it also means that only hebrew women have birth without complications? What of Egyptian women, philistine women, Cannanite women, Greek women, Babylonian women (all in the ancient world). Are there evidence of them all giving birth with complications?

Finally, does it mean giving birth with cs is neccessarily due to complications? There are many cases where women prefer cs without any complications, especially in the developed world where cs is as easy as pulling out a tooth.

So such pastors is telling us that a true Christian is forbidden from undergoing cs? What about other operations, like appendix, tonsillitis, kidney, etc, are Christians forbidden from undergoing any medical operation?

LaudableXX:


It irritates the living daylights out of me, whenever I see people comparing cost of services in the US, with Nigeria. Do Nigerians earn the same wages, as workers in the US? How many Nigerians have any form of health insurance, or are even qualified for it? Under the present health insurance schemes, how many cover CS - and at what cost? How many welfare schemes or social services exist to take care of the poor and needy in Nigeria? Please let me stop here - I do not want to lose my temper this afternoon! How many people live below poverty line, in Nigeria? Do not be fooled by the number of SUVs you see in Ikoyi, or Victoria Island area of Lagos state, or the mansions in Maitama, Abuja. A lot of people are poor! Very few are rich!

Then why are you expecting miracles from the poorly funded health systems in Nigeria?
Despite the fact that the health services in Nigeria are relatively cheap, you still call their charges exorbitant.
Fear God, and even if you can't fear God fear yourself.
Those wonderful places you claim nobody's below the poverty line and things seem to be working, their govts didn't conjure up wealth from the sky.
Majority of their social welfare system is being paid by anyone who works or has a business. Indirectly, its being funded by the tax payers including the very rich and even those barely feeding provided they are working.
Tax is a way of life. However, almost everyone evades paying tax in nigeria, yet expect a social welfare program in place. A wait in futility for the poor i must say.
Even the money from the natural resources is an exclusive right of the politicians you all worship, who can do no wrong.

eyinjuege:
Then why are you expecting miracles from the poorly funded health systems in Nigeria?
Despite the fact that the health services in Nigeria are relatively cheap, you still call their charges exorbitant.
Fear God, and even if you can't fear God fear yourself.
Those wonderful places you claim nobody's below the poverty line and things seem to be working, their govts didn't conjure up wealth from the sky.
Majority of their social welfare system is being paid by anyone who works or has a business. Indirectly, its being funded by the tax payers including the very rich and even those barely feeding provided they are working.
Tax is a way of life. However, almost everyone evades paying tax in nigeria, yet expect a social welfare program in place. A wait in futility for the poor i must say.
Even the money from the natural resources is an exclusive right of the politicians you all worship, who can do no wrong.

Nobody expects miracles from healthcare. People only expect doctors to carry out the jobs they were recruited to do. I never ever claimed that there are wonderful places, where nobody lived below the poverty line. You chose to insert that lie in your response, all by yourself.

As for saying that everyone evades paying tax in Nigeria, it shows you are grossly misinformed. How did FIRS generate N4trillion naira in tax revenue in 2017 ??

I once had cause to rush an elderly relative into the emergency room of a General Hospital in Lagos at 4 a.m. For your information, at that time I paid taxes (a lot of it in fact) and I am still paying taxes (as I work for a multinational), and the relative was a pensioner. The nurses claimed they couldn't attend to him, because he did not have a hospital card. How much was the card? 100 naira. I would gladly have paid a thousand naira if that was required.

After registration and card issues were dealt with, there was no doctor on duty to attend to him. According to the nurse on duty, the doctors were attending to patients in the wards. I later discovered it was a big, fat lie! I volunteered to go to the wards to fetch them, but the nurses ignored me. I had to start calling family and friends for help. His situation had become critical. Luckily, I got hold of someone who knew the Medical Director of that hospital. He placed a call through, and pronto! 5 doctors appeared from nowhere. This was more than 45 minutes, after we got to the hospital. What do we call this? Sheer negligence? Or just a bitter uncaring attitude on the part of the medical staff?

The nurse on duty almost went ballistic, and accused me of reporting the doctors and others on duty to the Medical Director. Her allegation was untrue. I had only called family and friends, to ask for help and advice. Now, it beats my understanding, as to why anyone would justify the lack of medical attention in such a situation, and tie it to non-payment of taxes. Then why don't the authorities just close down all the hospitals, if that is the way they feel?

Back to my story. That same patient died a month later, due to lack of blood. Funds were made available to pay for everything needed for his treatment, including the blood. Money was collected for cross-matching and every other test needed. What happened? The blood never arrived. And the patient died 4 hours later, after the request was made for blood. Now who should be held responsible for this? The person who made the payment? Or the patient who was a pensioner? Or the medical authorities including doctors on duty, who just could not be bothered to do the right thing, at the right time?

This nonchalant attitude has also affected the lives of doctors, because when they fall ill - sometimes, help comes too late. Read the story of a doctor who got exposed to Lassa Fever and almost died, due to the rot in the health sector! https://www.nairaland.com/4308928/lassa-fever-story-doctor-chibuike#64477196. Was this due to poor tax payment, or the unscrupulous negligence of the health management authorities?

In Nigeria, patients in public and even some private hospitals, pay for every single item they are told to bring, in order to undergo medical treatment or surgical procedures. Please ask around! From syringes, to cotton wool, to oxygen, patients pay for everything in cash, rarely on credit. So ask those who have been collecting taxes over the years, why they have not diverted it into the healthcare sector yet, but they have managed to divert it into the pockets of thieves, looters and embezzlers in govt.

Pastor, the woman and her baby's blood is in your hand. Why play God when you are not and can never be. People, when you are sick you do to the hospital not church. Your GOs will see doctor when they are sick in Nigeria or abroad while they will ask you to come to the church for prayers. This very pastor should be forgotten in the prison. Worshippers?

UnknownT:
Are you okay?

you are not okay....when the Hebrew women were talked about in respect to how they give birth ,they were referring to them as giving birth easily without much difficulty not the nonsense you quoted there

That's heartbreaking. The pastor is fake. So, Ceaserian -section is meant only for Non Christians? How come she didn't give birth like Hebrew women did? Women are more submissive to pastors and Alfa than their husbands

Fourwinds:
you are not okay....when the Hebrew women were talked about in respect to how they give birth ,they were referring to them as giving birth easily without much difficulty not the nonsense you quoted there

Dude, read Exodus 1:15-21 and you will understand better

Asowari:
good 4 her if am her husband I won't even buried her dead body

How do you know if the husband also wasn't a party to this? Some men force their wives to deliver vaginally so they won't have to pay for CS.

LaudableXX:


Nobody expects miracles from healthcare. People only expect doctors to carry out the jobs they were recruited to do. I never ever claimed that there are wonderful places, where nobody lived below the poverty line. You chose to insert that lie in your response, all by yourself.

As for saying that everyone evades paying tax in Nigeria, it shows you are grossly misinformed. How did FIRS generate N4trillion naira in tax revenue in 2017 ??

I once had cause to rush an elderly relative into the emergency room of a General Hospital in Lagos at 4 a.m. For your information, at that time I paid taxes (a lot of it in fact) and I am still paying taxes (as I work for a multinational), and the relative was a pensioner. The nurses claimed they couldn't attend to him, because he did not have a hospital card. How much was the card? 100 naira. I would gladly have paid a thousand naira if that was required.

After registration and card issues were dealt with, there was no doctor on duty to attend to him. According to the nurse on duty, the doctors were attending to patients in the wards. I later discovered it was a big, fat lie! I volunteered to go to the wards to fetch them, but the nurses ignored me. I had to start calling family and friends for help. His situation had become critical. Luckily, I got hold of someone who knew the Medical Director of that hospital. He placed a call through, and pronto! 5 doctors appeared from nowhere. This was more than 45 minutes, after we got to the hospital. What do we call this? Sheer negligence? Or just a bitter uncaring attitude on the part of the medical staff?

The nurse on duty almost went ballistic, and accused me of reporting the doctors and others on duty to the Medical Director. Her allegation was untrue. I had only called family and friends, to ask for help and advice. Now, it beats my understanding, as to why anyone would justify the lack of medical attention in such a situation, and tie it to non-payment of taxes. Then why don't the authorities just close down all the hospitals, if that is the way they feel?

Back to my story. That same patient died a month later, due to lack of blood. Funds were made available to pay for everything needed for his treatment, including the blood. Money was collected for cross-matching and every other test needed. What happened? The blood never arrived. And the patient died 4 hours later, after the request was made for blood. Now who should be held responsible for this? The person who made the payment? Or the patient who was a pensioner? Or the medical authorities including doctors on duty, who just could not be bothered to do the right thing, at the right time?

This nonchalant attitude has also affected the lives of doctors, because when they fall ill - sometimes, help comes too late. Read the story of a doctor who got exposed to Lassa Fever and almost died, due to the rot in the health sector! https://www.nairaland.com/4308928/lassa-fever-story-doctor-chibuike#64477196. Was this due to poor tax payment, or the unscrupulous negligence of the health management authorities?

In Nigeria, patients in public and even some private hospitals, pay for every single item they are told to bring, in order to undergo medical treatment or surgical procedures. Please ask around! From syringes, to cotton wool, to oxygen, patients pay for everything in cash, rarely on credit. So ask those who have been collecting taxes over the years, why they have not diverted it into the healthcare sector yet, but they have managed to divert it into the pockets of thieves, looters and embezzlers in govt.

A dr is not a magician.
Medicine isn't magic.
Hospitals in places where things work have everything in place.
People don't buy blood in those places. Even in nigeria, you're not expected to buy blood.
Many people donate blòod selflessly in those same places abroad.
In an A/E room abroad, the least no of drs you can find is around 10. Thats just the A/E drs. Theres another ward called emergency assessment unit where people from a/e are moved to. They also have at least 5 drs at night, and more than 10 in the daytime. They all see same patients seen by a/e drs immediately they are transferred to them. In short, there's a system put in place for patients to be assessed and re-assessed, so as not to miss anything.
Now, regarding waiting times in a/e abroad, patients may wait as long as 4 hours in a/e. Yes, but you expect to be seen within 45mins in nigeria as though your own patient is more important than others in the A/E.
Now, that's where ambulance services such as paramedics come into place. There's a system abroad, where paramedics are already on a patient's case even before getting to the hospital. Infact, the hospitals are already expecting such patients and if they get into the a/e from the ambulance, they still have to wait for other ambulances that got to the hospital before them.
In nigeria, especially at night you see only 2 drs covering a/e and all the wards especially in general hospitals. Yet this same abroad have at least 10 drs covering their hospitals a/e and the wards (i've not even added the drs in surgery and peadiatrics o). They still complain of being short-staffed by the way.
The rot in the health sector isn't caused by drs. If there's no proper health systems in place, everyone suffers. Thats the govts responsibility.
Why should a dr have to worry about no gloves in hospital?, or no gauze? Ridiculous.
Meanwhile, there are so many checks and balances put in place in the abroad we're talking about, in places like UK, Europe.
They have solid primary care centers where people dont have to go to hospitals but rather health centers to see their drs for every cough. Thats also by appointment and some dont get appointment for 2 weeks atimes.
Even patients for elective surgery may wait as long as 6 months or even a year for their surgery depenfing on the patient.
Drs in Nigeria are facing a lot of challenges and I hail them. Most times they depend on only their clinical acumen to make a diagnosis. Abroad, CT scans, MRIs , immunology test etc are carried out like pure water, and you get an instant confirmed diagnosis. There's no such luxury in Nigeria. How many hospitals have all these? Patients have to go to specific lab centers for such tests, and if they're too unwell to go, they dont get it
Each of those tests used to cost btw 40 -80K, abroad some patients have such tests like 3 or even more times before a diagnosis/conclusion is made. This makes it appear as though the drs abroad are magicians, not true.
Infact, they respect themselves. Many times these same drs put patients on end of life care if indicated meaning they wont treat such patients again and they just allow you pass on quietly and comfortably especially if you're old and you've had a massive stroke, cancer etc because they understand clearly they can't perform magic.
Those who loot govt funds should be stoned to death, but unfortunately we support them in nigeria. How then can you want to lay claims to good health care?

BushWickBill:

Oga pls I'm at liberty to believe what I want.
So long as I'm contributing positively to society and I'm not being a nuisance to anybody.

If that is all you picked up from my post, then I actually think you are the one without a functional brain.
Thank you.

Dear friend, please accept my apologies about my comment on functional brains as I see now how it could have come across as offensive. Believe me, abuse wasn't the intention.

That said, my take is that the more brain power people apply to the beliefs they were brought up with, the more ludicrous many of these stories tend to become. And indeed many have come to see the absurdities of religion but yet cannot seem to take that final step to get out of it completely. I wish that you and many more intelligent Africans will take this step for the good of the continent. Of course, my wish does not side step the fact that you have the freedom of thought and worship. I can only wish, be hopeful or shrug and move on.

eyinjuege:
A dr is not a magician.
Medicine isn't magic.
Hospitals in places where things work have everything in place.
People don't buy blood in those places. Even in nigeria, you're not expected to buy blood.
Many people donate blòod selflessly in those same places abroad.
In an A/E room abroad, the least no of drs you can find is around 10. Thats just the A/E drs. Theres another ward called emergency assessment unit where people from a/e are moved to. They also have at least 5 drs at night, and more than 10 in the daytime. They all see same patients seen by a/e drs immediately they are transferred o them. In short, there's a system put in place for patients to be assessed and re-assessed, so as not to miss anything.
Now, regarding waiting times in a/e abroad, patients may wait as long as 4 hours in a/e. Yes, but you expect to be seen within 45mins in nigeria as though your own patient is more important than others in the A/E.
Now, that's where ambulance services such as paramedics come into place. There's a system abroad, where paramedics are already on a patient's case even before getting to the hospital. Infact, the hospitals are already expecting such patients and if they get into the a/e from the ambulance, they still have to wait for other ambulances that got to the hospital before them.
In nigeria, especially at night you see only 2 drs covering a/e and all the wards especially in general hospitals. Yet this same abroad have at least 10 drs covering their hospitals a/e and the wards. They still complain of being short-staffed by the way.
The rot in the health sector isn't caused by drs. If there's no proper health systems in place, everyone suffers. Thats the govts responsibility.
Why should a dr have to worry about no gloves in hospital?, or no gauze? Ridiculous.
Meanwhile, there are so many checks and balances put in place in the abroad we're talking about, in places like UK, Europe.
They have solid primary care centers where people dont have to go to hospitals but rather health centers to see their drs for every cough. Thats also by appointment and some dont get appointment for 2 weeks atimes.
Even patients for elective surgery may wait as long as 6 months or even a year for their surgery depenfing on the patient.
Drs in Nigeria are facing a lot of challenges and I hail them. Most times they depend on only their clinical acumen to make a diagnosis. Abroad, CT scans, MRIs , immunology test etc are carried out like pure water, and you get an instant confirmed diagnosis. There's no such luxury in Nigeria. How many hospitals have all these? Patients have to go to specific lab centers for such tests, and if they're too unwell to go, they dont get it
Each of those tests used to cost btw 40 -80K, abroad some patients have such tests like 3 or even more times before a diagnosis/conclusion is made. This makes it appear as though the drs abroad are magicians, not true.
Infact, they respect themselves. Many times these same drs put patients on end of life care if indicated meaning they wont treat such patients again and they just allow you pass on quietly and comfortably especially if you're old and you've had a massive stroke, cancer etc because they understand clearly they can't perform magic.
Those who loot govt funds should be stoned to death, but unfortunately we support them in nigeria. How then can you want to lay claims to good health care?

Stop arguing blindly. In Nigeria, you are not expected to buy blood. The patient is only told to pay for cross-matching and various blood tests. Which we their relatives, do pay for. And we are told to also bring in relatives to donate blood. Again, we go all out to ensure this is done. What else are we supposed to do again, to ensure that the blood arrives on time and the transfusion is carried out, since we are not doctors or nurses? Maybe you can enlighten me, in this area.

Secondly, A & E doctors abroad may number 10. I have never bothered to count. But if I rush a bleeding patient into the A&E room of a general hospital in Lagos, that is almost empty at 4 a.m, is it too much to expect that there should at least be a doctor on hand to attend to him? Especially, when the A&E room at that hour, was nearly empty of critically ill patients seeking attention? If it was a busy night, I would understand. If there were other patients that were in a worse situation, I could relate. But when that was not the case, what should I have done? Sat down and continued twiddling my thumbs, until the imperial doctors in casualty decided to grace us with their benevolent presence? For your information, those doctors on call that night were sleeping! A few were watching a football match upstairs, in another room!

In your own world, you feel that a 4-5 hour waiting period in A&E is nothing, but on that day in Nigeria, a 4 - 5 hour waiting period would have spelt doom for the patient. He was gasping for air, struggling to breathe, and his body was clammy and cold. He was also bleeding badly. And you are telling me that a 45 minutes waiting period in A&E, was too short, right? It is sad that the patient is no longer on this side of eternity. I would have shown him your comments.

Finally, the rot in the healthcare sector is caused by doctors - senior doctors or consultants who have turned into medical directors, and healthcare administrators. Both in public and private sectors. Doctors at the helm of decision-making in the ministries of health and elsewhere, who should ensure that proper equipment is bought, serviced and installed for use, at the right place and time. Senior doctors or consultants who should ensure there are proper or carefully laid down procedures for arresting infectious diseases, within the hospital and its surrounding community as part of public health measures, before it becomes an epidemic, or a pandemic. So please stop passing the buck!

Finally, doctors get away with their ineptitude and negligence in Nigeria, because they do not get sued for such things. If there were enough medical malpractice lawyers, then it would be hard to explain why payment was made for blood tests and other things, only for the blood itself, never to show up until the patient died.

For your information, hospitals exist that have MRI or CT equipment in Nigeria. In fact, as a private hospital, your establishment would not be highly rated if you do not have such things. And quite a number of them have long waiting lists, of patients waiting to use such facilities. I have seen patients travel all the way to Lagos from Ilorin, from Potiskum to Abuja, from Minna to Ibadan just to get certain tests done which are not available in their locality.

But in public hospitals, very few of them carry such equipment, and when such machines break down, fixing it becomes another long story. Who are the healthcare officials responsible for ensuring that such things are sorted out? Well, healthcare professionals and medical directors, who are also doctors. Their brief is to work together with the non-medical staff or technicians, to get such stuff fixed. But what do they do? They act as if it is not a priority, and sweep such things under the carpet, while grandstanding to the audience.

LaudableXX:


Good response. But you need to balance it as well. What about patients who lose their lives due to misdiagnosis, by the doctor? Or those who die, due to medical negligence? Or those who develop complications, as a result of the doctor's inadequate knowledge? Or those who cross over into eternity, due to lack of oxygen in hospitals or lack of the right equipment to sustain life?

I still carry a scar in my left arm, due to a wrong incision carried out by a medical personnel, which later got infected due to their carelessness.

Complications will always occur in medicine. For every medical condition, there are complications. For every medical or surgical procedure, complications may arise. Some patients develop complications, some don't. It doesnt necessarily have anything to do with medical negligence.
If there are no adequate equipment, oxygen etc in a hospital, you can't blame the staff of such a hospital but the management/govt. The staff can't turn themselves to oxygen, nor conjure CT scanners into the hospitals.
If your wound got infected after a surgical procedure, its one of the major complications of surgery, that can even get worse to become life thrwatening if not taken care of on time. I have seen too many patients abroad with wound infections. That's part of the complications that may occur. That's nobody's fault unless the things they used on you were not sterilised.
The major problems Nigerian drs have in my opinion is that they don't explain well enough to their patients. E.g patients to go for surgery should be told about possible complications that may occur such as infection, bleeding and possible blood transfusion etc.
Abroad, they will let you understand and help you manage your expectations, before you start thinking some magic will happen.
They will let you know they won't rescuscitate you if you come in very poorly, especially if you're old. They will tell you thats a clinical decision as CPR- resuscitation is unlikely to be successful especially if you come in very ill. They are realists and they won't beat about the bush for you.
I know some Nigerian drs and nurses are rude, but I've also observed almost everybody is rude in Nigeria. These same people are your neighbors, fellow nairalanders who insult each other etc.
I really feel burdened about the state of the health systems in Nigeria but when i look at how to improve it, it appears too daunting and almost impossible. Real shame.

LaudableXX:


Stop arguing blindly. In Nigeria, you are not expected to buy blood. The patient is only told to pay for cross-matching and various blood tests. Which we their relatives, do pay for. And we are told to also bring in relatives to donate blood. Again, we go all out to ensure this is done. What else are we supposed to do again, to ensure that the blood arrives on time and the transfusion is carried out, since we are not doctors or nurses? Maybe you can enlighten me, in this area.

Secondly, A & E doctors abroad may number 10. I have never bothered to count. But if I rush a bleeding patient into the A&E room of a general hospital in Lagos, that is almost empty at 4 a.m, is it too much to expect that there should at least be a doctor on hand to attend to him? Especially, when the A&E room at that hour, was nearly empty of critically ill patients seeking attention? If it was a busy night, I would understand. If there were other patients that were in a worse situation, I could relate. But when that was not the case, what should I have done? Sat down and continued twiddling my thumbs, until the imperial doctors in casualty decided to grace us with their benevolent presence? For your information, those doctors on call that night were sleeping! A few were watching a football match upstairs, in another room!

In your own world, you feel that a 4-5 hour waiting period in A&E is nothing, but on that day in Nigeria, a 4 - 5 hour waiting period would have spelt doom for the patient. He was gasping for air, struggling to breathe, and his body was clammy and cold. He was also bleeding badly. And you are telling me that a 45 minutes waiting period in A&E, was too short, right? It is sad that the patient is no longer on this side of eternity. I would have shown him your comments.

Finally, the rot in the healthcare sector is caused by doctors - senior doctors or consultants who have turned into medical directors, and healthcare administrators. Both in public and private sectors. Doctors at the helm of decision-making in the ministries of health and elsewhere, who should ensure that proper equipment is bought, serviced and installed for use, at the right place and time. Senior doctors or consultants who should ensure there are proper or carefully laid down procedures for arresting infectious diseases, within the hospital and its surrounding community as part of public health measures, before it becomes an epidemic, or a pandemic. So please stop passing the buck!

Finally, doctors get away with their ineptitude and negligence in Nigeria, because they do not get sued for such things. If there were enough medical malpractice lawyers, then it would be hard to explain why payment was made for blood tests and other things, only for the blood itself, never to show up until the patient died.

For your information, hospitals exist that have MRI or CT equipment in Nigeria. In fact, as a private hospital, your establishment would not be highly rated if you do not have such things. And quite a number of them have long waiting lists, of patients waiting to use such facilities. I have seen patients travel all the way to Lagos from Ilorin, from Potiskum to Abuja, from Minna to Ibadan just to get certain tests done which are not available in their locality.

But in public hospitals, very few of them carry such equipment, and when such machines break down, fixing it becomes another long story. Who are the healthcare officials responsible for ensuring that such things are sorted out? Well, healthcare professionals and medical directors, who are also doctors. Their brief is to work together with the non-medical staff or technicians, to get such stuff fixed. But what do they do? They act as if it is not a priority, and sweep such things under the carpet, while grandstanding to the audience.

Thats why i said earlier that if the health SYSTEM is not strenghtened, nothing can be achieved.
Before someone reaches the stage of gasping for air abroad, something must have been brewing before hand. A man having a cardiac arrest will have an ambulance at his place abroad once you call emergency services with well trained personelle (not necessarily even drs, but proficient with their resuscitation skills), he would have been started on some treatment before even getting to the A/E where he will be triaged. He would have been on oxygen from the ambulance or even intubated before getting to hospital. Because in hospital, there may be several others with same case or even worse than him being attended to.
That's a system in place, to ensure lives are saved and delays are avoided.
Nigeria needs a strenghtening of her health systems, laws need to be put in place, a million other things need to be put in place.
Lagos, despite being the center of excellence doesnt have any CT scanners in any of her general hospitals. Even GH lagos that's a very big one with specialties doesn't have a CT scanner. Only lasuth, maybe LUTH has some epileptic ones. Most people go to Mecure, and other test centers to have it done.(things may have changed now o, maybe general hospitals have scanners now in lagos?)
Private hospitals with CT scanners are definitely way out of league for the average Nigerian because as stated earlier, good health care is expensive. And definitely, such private hospitals are better staffed than the govt hospitals, better working environment, and the staff are nicer for obvious reasons.y
Any CMD found guilty of embezzelling funds should be jailed. That is part of the corruption Nigerians don't want to fight. If however they didnt embezzle the money, and there's just no funds to buy and maintain these equipments, what magic can they also do?
It would be interesting if the health sector can be privatised, and health insurance made compulsory for everyone by law. Maybe things could improve then.

eyinjuege:
Complications will always occur in medicine. For every medical condition, there are complications. For every medical or surgical procedure, complications may arise. Some patients develop complications, some don't. It doesnt necessarily have anything to do with medical negligence.
If there are no adequate equipment, oxygen etc in a hospital, you can't blame the staff of such a hospital but the management/govt. The staff can't turn themselves to oxygen, nor conjure CT scanners into the hospitals.
If your wound got infected after a surgical procedure, its one of the major complications of surgery, that can even get worse to become life thrwatening if not taken care of on time. I have seen too many patients abroad with wound infections. That's part of the complications that may occur. That's nobody's fault unless the things they used on you were not sterilised.
The major problems Nigerian drs have in my opinion is that they don't explain well enough to their patients. E.g patients to go for surgery should be told about possible complications that may occur such as infection, bleeding and possible blood transfusion etc.
Abroad, they will let you understand and help you manage your expectations, before you start thinking some magic will happen.
They will let you know they won't rescuscitate you if you come in very poorly, especially if you're old. They will tell you thats a clinical decision as CPR- resuscitation is unlikely to be successful especially if you come in very ill. They are realists and they won't beat about the bush for you.
I know some Nigerian drs and nurses are rude, but I've also observed almost everybody is rude in Nigeria. These same people are your neighbors, fellow nairalanders who insult each other etc.
I really feel burdened about the state of the health systems in Nigeria but when i look at how to improve it, it appears too daunting and almost impossible. Real shame.

Guy, you still do not get it do you? There are cases of complications that could have been avoided in Nigeria, if only doctors and other medical staff had paid better attention to their patients!! And lack of oxygen in a hospital should be squarely laid at the feet of the hospital's top management who are doctors themselves!! What does it take to make oxygen available in a public hospital? The same oxygen that patients pre-pay for, before it is administered to them?

As for doctors and nurses being rude, I think it is a standard feature of the services offered in public hospitals. Doctors in many public hospitals believe they are tin gods. I remember asking a junior doctor in the public hospital if I could speak to the consultant in charge of my relative's medical case. The junior doctor was scandalised. "What for?" he queried aggressively. I told him calmly that I needed more information on the course of treatment, in order to make further provisions available for the patient. I had earlier asked him to explain the nature of the treatment and the duration, but he declined and waved his hands vaguely in the air, muttering something. And that was why I inisisted on speaking to the consultant.

Anyway to cut the long story short - the doctor told me that if I insisted on seeing the consultant, he would just discharge the patient who was still unwell and ask me to take him home. According to him, I had no right to see the consultant! This happened right here in Nigeria. I have asked doctors to change prescribed medication for me in the past, because of unpleasant side effects. One actually refused and asked me to put up with it, because there was nothing he could do about it. I guess, I had not paid enough taxes.....

SapphirePRINCEX:
Nawa for waec

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