Not Ordained To Life Eternal - Religion - Nairaland
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| Not Ordained To Life Eternal by BigBashiru: 2:11pm On Apr 26, 2010 |
Contrary to the thinking of false teachers and false prophets on this forum, the Bible is very clear that not everybody is ordained to eternal life & therefore not everybody will be saved. Wicked freewill apologists preach the anti-Bible doctrine that Christ is preached so that men out of their "freewill" "accept" Christ. What these wicked men dont understand is that the names of everybody that must be saved was written before they were born according to the everlasting covenant. men must stop spreading the lie that everybody will get saved. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 2:34pm On Apr 26, 2010 |
You must be ignorant to think that everybody will get saved. Some people were needed by an oil company recently. It was already ordained that not everyone will be accepted, there was a limited number of positions to be filled. Right before applications, everything had been prepared. That's planning. Only a lazy bone will give up with the excuse that not everybody will be picked, the company already knows what/who they're looking for. Go figure if you can. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by BigBashiru: 2:40pm On Apr 26, 2010 |
image123 the difference btw this & what you have just typed is that your oil company example is random while the eternal ordainment of specific individuals to life is specific. they received (not accepted) Christ because they were ordained to receive Him before they were born; what glorious truth! |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 3:23pm On Apr 26, 2010 |
You're wrong because the Bible says WHOSOEVER believes will not perish but have eternal life(John 3). How 'specific' is that? The plan of salvation is clear, ordained from the foundation of the world, but everyone can have a go for it if you do not exclude yourself. Whosoever will, let me take of the water of life freely. How 'specific' can that get? |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by BigBashiru: 4:54pm On Apr 26, 2010 |
image123, the problem with human beings is that they think they have a standard of righteousness above God; God has the sovereignity to elect[b] certain individuals to life [/b]. False teachers who oppose this truth normally use John 3:16 to back up their doctrine. Please note that "whosoever" does not mean all, in fact, "whosoever" means "not all". "whosoever" is the synonym of "as many as". That is why it says in Acts "As many as were ordained to life eternal believed"; thats why God said to Paul: "I have much people in this City".And when all the specific people were saved, Paul left. However, men must seek Jesus still and not have to bother about the above, for it is "Gods good pleasure to give you the kingdom". The above doctrine should not discourage men to seek God but is surely taught in the Bible - this is the point I want to get across. My goal is to silence free will apologists and false doctrine teachers. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by toluxa1(m): 10:48pm On Apr 26, 2010 |
@Poster. I agree with you 100% The first action performed by God on behalf of all the individuals who would be saved was that before the creation of the world, God chose every person that He would save. We read in Ephesians 1:3-5: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, . The freewill gospel of the church is a false gospel of work. Meaning we have to do some kind of work to become saved. Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 11:44pm On Apr 26, 2010 |
English is what is disturbing you. So John 3v16 is not part of the Bible. Now whosoever means 'not all'. I laugh in nairaland. Your 'goal' has been ruled offside forever, probably through predestination. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by toluxa1(m): 11:56pm On Apr 26, 2010 |
Mr. Image. I don't understand what point you have made in your last comment. But I'm on mobile now and will try to respond properly tomorrow. The issue is about proper bible study. Comparing scripture with scripture and finding harmony and truth. I just checked my Strong Concordance and discovered the explanation on whosoever is somehow correct. Its not the exact synonym for as many as, but they are very much related words. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 12:33am On Apr 27, 2010 |
Choose again. Which would you prefer? a-Not all that believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. b-As many as believe in him will not perish but have eternal life. This are the strong meanings of 'whosoever', se? English, english. You want a Bible study?pray hard, I may just find the time. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by toluxa1(m): 12:47am On Apr 27, 2010 |
Lol. It's clear that you're still a babe in Bible study. I'm not saying that is a bad thing though. For you to even be pointing to ENGLISH as a problem or whatever. Was the bible written in English? We're showing you parallelism between the origin greek phrase and word in view and you're talking about English. Many phrases in the original greek manuscript of the bible doesn't make any sense in English. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by BigBashiru: 3:16am On Apr 27, 2010 |
merriam webster dictionary defines "whosoever" as a synonym of "whoever"; i dont need to be a english guru to let you know that "whosoever" & "whoever" does not mean "all". Image123, read this: "To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2[b]who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father[/b], through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:" [1 Peter] >> "who have been chosen" - implies not all; foreknowledge implies there was no "accepting or choosing Christ". How were they chosen? "Through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and sprinkling by his blood". Jesus said: "This is the Blood of the New Covenant shed for many for the remission of sins". |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Mudley313: 6:01am On Apr 27, 2010 |
*shake my head* @ confused christians. ur god created humans. pre-ordained sum to lick his behind for eternity in his |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by BigBashiru: 11:44am On Apr 27, 2010 |
@mudley only post meaningful contributions. do not derail the thread. its mind boggling how retrogresive you are; please remove your rubbish from the thread - what is wrong with you guys. if you are an atheist concentrate on atheist posts - i dont want to waste my time replying to your nonsense - this will be my final response before it degenrates to name calling. Davidlyan, deepsight, your comments are particularly welcome. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 1:14pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
toluxa1 Rewind come back small. I quoted John 3v16 saying WHOSOEVER believes in him will not perish. I implied that anyone/everyone can have a go at salvation. I didn't say all will be saved, instead ANYONE/WHOSOEVER believes, not some 'chosen' sect. Then came someone saying whosoever means 'not all' or as many as. That's why I put the two words in place of WHOSOEVER in John 3v16 to show how different they sound. They sure didn't look synonymous in that passage. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 1:14pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
toluxa1 Rewind come back small. I quoted John 3v16 saying WHOSOEVER believes in him will not perish. I implied that anyone/everyone can have a go at salvation. I didn't say all will be saved, instead ANYONE/WHOSOEVER believes, not some 'chosen' sect. Then came someone saying whosoever means 'not all' or as many as. That's why I put the two words in place of WHOSOEVER in John 3v16 to show how different they sound. They sure didn't look synonymous in that passage. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Joagbaje(m): 1:19pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. @ Poster, This does not mean that God chose some for salvation and chose others to hell . This only makes reference to a particular meeting. It is not everybody that get saved in a meeting. Some that got saved yeasterday have heard the gospel several times but were still unsaved. But now they are saved. You cant say because they didnt get saved last year , they are damned forever. And if someone doesnt get saved today, it doesnt mean he wont get saved tommorow, When we prepare for an outreach, we pray and fast for souls to be saved, If we dont prepare well ,God would only touch few according to our preparation prayerfully. one person may make altar call and thousands come forward , but another person that has lesser grace makes altar calll and just one or two respond. So We are responsible for the result, even though we know it is the holyghost that does the conversion, he works with our faith. Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, So we have our part of intercession. The purpose is to break demonic influence from people's hearts, so that their hearts are free to recieve the word of God. In a service there are number of people that have been marked for salvation, But that doesnt mean that the others are damned.The blood of Jesus has redeemed all. It is left for individuals to embrace salvation. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 1:28pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
You talk of proper Bible study and comparing scripture with scripture. My question on whether John 3v16 is scripture was not answered. I'll re.phrase it- Am i quoting ababio or Bible. Proper Bible study tells us the mind of God, not just the 'malinterpretation of some passages. Looking in the Bible, we find that we have ability to choose, except those passages are wrong and you arE right sha. Proverbs 1v29 for that they hated knowledge, and DID NOT CHOOSE the fear of the Lord. These ones above went their own way of perdition of their own volition, not God choosing them/for them |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by BigBashiru: 3:37pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
When we prepare for an outreach, we pray and fast for souls to be saved, If we dont prepare well ,God would only touch few according to our preparation prayerfully. one person may make altar call and thousands come forward , but another person that has lesser grace makes altar calll and just one or two respond.I agree with you the bolded part especially, but God still foreknew that or else He will not be God. So We are responsible for the result Joagbaje, Let me say that this is against the Word of God. We must not reject the truth to meet human standards. To say that we are responsible for the result is to deny God's foreknowledge, omniscience, omni potence and that is BLASPHEMY. Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Joagbaje, if you notice, I dont want to talk about Hell and this is for a reason, human beings must not speculate the destinies of men. My purpose is to defeat the false teaching that men "Choose Christ"; thats all I am going to talk about. It is undeniable that John 3:16 says that the salvation is available to all but in Act 13:48 we see that only those so ordained received it. And all of you arguing, I will give you more blatant verses (& I am sure you will start arguing that the translation is wrong lol). "He hath not ordained us to wrath but to receive salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." Hebrews 9:15 And for this reason he is mediator of a new covenant, so that, death having taken place for redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, the called might receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Remember in Ephesians, it says "who saved us and called us". Who saved us [not all] and callued us [not all]; here above in Hebrews 9:15 - it makes reference to the "called". Therefore it means that not everybody is called and by inference saved (it makes reference to those who are called - specific). "But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" 2 Thessolonians Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, And here is the glorious truth, you ask because your name is already in the Book of Life!!! This is why the Bible says: "No one can come to me unless the Father who hath sent me draw Him"; Jesus repeated this. I therefore maintain that before the beginning of time, God that Father, God the Son & God the Holy Ghost had a meeting and wrote down in the Book of Life, the names of everybody who MUST be saved (note that I said MUST be saved). These individuals in time, will be drawn to salvation by irressistable grace that the scripture may be fulfilled: "All the Father hath given to me I have lost none". Image123 Salvation is available to all (John 3:16) but is only effectual for many (not all). This is the truth. To say that everybody will be saved is against the teaching of the Bible. Let us remain on topic scope which is - "Not ordained to life eternal." |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by BigBashiru: 3:56pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
I implied that anyone/everyone can have a go at salvation.Yes, but true salvation happens when the Holy Ghost puts the desire into your heart to have that go. Again, men must preach the gospel to all nations; God then saves whoever he wills (and will save all if He wills - its all up to Him). But current scriptures show only few shall receive the inheritance. Now you say that everyone can have a go at salvation? think again: John 10:25-29 "Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 4:28pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
Did I just think you arE confused? no.  By the way, which one be current scriptures. The ones I quoted like John 3 and Proverbs 1 are 'ex-current' abi, we're together. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Joagbaje(m): 5:29pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
Bigbashiru, Every body's name is already in the book of life, It is only when a man dies without salvation , that God will remove his name from the book. God has given man a will power. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 1 Tim. 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; [4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by BigBashiru: 7:22pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
@image123 You are a confused enemy of the Cross that preaches doctrines of men and of demons. You reject the verses of God that I have quoted. You reject the truth. You reject giving John 3:16 its true meaning. Get ready for judgement day. @Joagbaje You blaspheme the Holy Spirit by saying everybody's name is in the Book of Life. Again this is heresy.--- EVERYBODY'S NAME IS NOT IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE. 2 Peter 3:9; 1 Tim. 2:3-4 shows that God wants everybody to be saved; but everybody will not be saved (wanting is different from ordaining). God did not want Adam & Eve to eat of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, but it was within His Divine Plan that man will Fall & the Christ slain from from the foundation of the world will come into the world in time to give himself as a ransom for many (but thats another topic). Man cannot will to be saved my friend because the will of man is corrupt in Adam beyond repair and cannot will salvation!!! |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 7:35pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
BigBashiru: This is THE JOKE OF THE DAY. Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely Revelation 22v17. You should get a hold on that emotion of yours, you were not ordained that way friend. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by toluxa1(m): 9:29pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
Joagbaje:That reference to that particular meeting was a picture of the case of situation in which God’s Salvation plan works. It wasn’t just written there for nothing or so we can know what happened in that particular meeting. Everywhere the Word of God is preached throughout time, as many as are ordained to eternal will believe. Now, the bolded above may not be necessarily true for this particular meeting. But in a general form, it is true. There are many people who are eternally damned. The Bible states that God hates all of the unsaved of the world who will stand in judgment for their sins: Psalms 5:4-5 "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." Now, the colored above is an indication that you don’t understand what redemption is. You state that the blood of Jesus has redeemed ALL. That is NOT POSSIBLE. If the blood of Jesus has Redeemed all, then ALL will (eventually at one point or the other) be saved. Someone asked me this question one day: But isn't it unfair for God to save some people and not all? My answer: We have to understand "fairness" from God's perspective – not our own. God is not a “respecter” of persons (Romans 2:11; Acts 10:34; Galatians 2:6; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 3:25). He does not have to save anyone because we all deserve eternal damnation for our sins. However, God has the sovereign right to save whomever He so desires without giving any reason to anyone for His actions (Romans 9:14-16). Romans 9:20-23 "…O man, who art thou that repliest [disputes] against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering[b] the vessels of wrath [unbelievers] fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy [believers], which he had afore prepared unto glory."[/b] Psalms 24:1 "…The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein." Proverbs 16:4 "The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Image123:The passages are not wrong. It is just that you have failed to understand and create HARMONY between ALL SCRIPTURE. The bolded above is totally wrong. We don’t choose God. God chooses us. We read in Ephesians 1:3-5: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. and John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. Joagbaje:I will not comment on this because it totally doesn’t make any sense not to talk of the fact that it is dirty heresy. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by toluxa1(m): 10:06pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
Joagbaje:On a second thought I think I should comment on this because we are all learning. Most important thing you must realize is that we are all born as retched sinners so there is no way you can say everybody’s name is written in the book of life. Going to the scriptures; Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Meaning that their names were NEVER written in the book of life. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 10:26pm On Apr 27, 2010 |
toluxa1 I'm yet to say that we have ability to choose God. You have added 'God' of your volition. I said we have ability to choose and quoted scriptures to that effect(Proverbs 1v29). Another says 'choose you this day who you will serve'. Except this scriptures are wrong and you are right sha. But Bible clearly tells us that we have a say in this matter. We're not programmed zombies, programmed for heaven/hell. Whosoever WILL, let him take the water of life FREELY |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 7:02pm On Apr 29, 2010 |
Ah, this was one thread I was enjoying. Don't die thread, you shall not die |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by Image123(m): 7:16pm On Apr 29, 2010 |
I was reading John 15v7. He said 'If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. I'm thinking 'if ye abide in me', it means then that it is possible to decide not to ABIDE. Ordained yet deciding not to abide. I'm thinking hey; 1. What's the point of evangelism if a sect of people are already 'chosen/ordained' as you call it. (What they should enter the kingdom anyway, are they not ordained to?) Why go and preach the gospel to EVERY creature, or every can mean 'not all' as well. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by BigBashiru: 9:56pm On Apr 29, 2010 |
'choose you this day who you will serve'This statement was given by God who already knew the outcome. "Of the fruit of knowledge of good & evil thou shalt no eat" was also issued but God already knew that they will eat it & therefore it didnt take God by suprise. I personally dont believe there is freewill in the Bible. If for instance I have been destined to hell, there isnt much I can do about it! 1. What's the point of evangelism if a sect of people are already 'chosen/ordained' as you call it. (What they should enter the kingdom anyway, are they not ordained to?) Why go and preach the gospel to EVERY creature, or every can mean 'not all' as well.Evangelism is necessary because men do not know those who have been destined to life - only God knows. Like toluxa1 has said, anywhere the Word is preached, as many as have been destined to receive shall receive. Even after salvation, God already knows those who will backslide & those who will keep on or else He would not be omni scient/ all knowing! John 15v7. He said 'If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.this is irrelevant to the discussion. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by BigBashiru: 10:46pm On Apr 29, 2010 |
there is no human freewill in the Bible. I speculate we are programmed robots, |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by toluxa1(m): 11:19pm On Apr 29, 2010 |
choose you this day whom you will serve [\quote]. |
| Re: Not Ordained To Life Eternal by toluxa1(m): 11:23pm On Apr 29, 2010 |
@image. Read my long post above again more carefully and try to respond to it. Many people in debates like this think its about how much scripture you can produce to support what you're saying. But its not so. The Word of God doesn't work that way. The truth is One. It can't be this and again be that. There has to be harmony. |
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