Do these Occult Fraternities collect 10% from thier member's salaries as well?

as usual trust nigerians/africans to ignorantly lap up anything that has been repackaged by white people, lol
we send our cows abroad and they come back as corned beef which we pay throug our noses for
we send our crude abroad and they come back as petrol which we pay through our noses for
we sent our babalawo,idol worshipping,human sacrificing etc beliefs abroad they have repackaged it and some people not only believe that is good but they go as far as calling those of us who dont believe bakward minded, if you r looking for a gullible backward minded fellow pls look in the mirror,
if i wanted to serve the devil,i wont waste my time following some oyinbo repackaged cult,i will go for the original cult in our villages where they wont repackage anything but go straight to the point

nollywood dont manufacture stories out of their head,movies/films mimick reality and they are simply a miror to happenings in our society

^^^ What makes you think original African traditionl religion amounts to "worshipping the devil"? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Do you have a cultural inferiority complex?

You deride so called cults, but you very probably accept the religion of these same 'white men' as the proper truth, no? Do you not see contradictions in this? ? ?

Deep Sight:

^^^ What makes you think original African traditionl religion amounts to "worshipping the devil"? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Do you have a cultural inferiority complex?

You deride so called cults, but you very probably accept the religion of these same 'white men' as the proper truth, no? Do you not see contradictions in this? ? ?

well how about the shedding of blood for starters?
while our so called progenitors were murdering innocent babies and twins using them to appease the gods,those 'white men' died of tse tse fly to save the children women etc fro your african religion
i was opportuned to read a thick volume owned by my dad which is an history of yorubas,culture and traditions in the pre colonial days and i nearly shed tears on account of the capacity for evil and bloodshed exhibited
a religion like the african religion that advocates bloodshed and all sorts of evil is just wrong

^^^ You are so funny young man. You still don't get the point do you? Okay let me walk you through. You talk about ritual bloodshed as being a stain on African religions as opposed to the cosmogony of the "white man"

Is your own christian religion not founded on the very idea of ritualistic human sacrifice in terms of the so called remission of sins by the murder of Jesus on the cross, as supposedly willed by your own christian God? ? ?

If the very foundation of your christian religion is thus ritualistic human sacrifice, what gives you the unction and audacity to condemn other people for the very same act of ritualistic human sacrifice? ? ?

Secondly, I want to assume that your knowledge of history is limited to that old fat book owned by your father. Otherwise you would not exculpate "white men" from acts of barbaric savagery and bloodshed thoughout history. Such has, infact, been their forte.

Trex73:


What is all these arguments, @curiousmind thanks for your postings joo.

The miracles of today, what do we call them, they are of the occult, the unknown, things that happen contrary to the will of nature, that can not be explained scientifically is the occult.

I know some of you have been brain-washed by tales and by your religious leaders, your senses have been imprisoned for so long, you allow them to control even your thoughts. The bible says do not be confined, in these words but be transformed by it.

Please stop and think head, years ago in some churches that I attend, I was told that the 6th and 7th Book of Moses will make you go mad, but for more than 10 years now I have been reading, studying and practicing on this book, and I am still OK.

Some of them try to prevent you from knowing what they know, or rather don't know, knowledge is the key to existence, Apostle Paul said, try all spirits, then decide for yourself which one to follow.

Look, Fraternity, Occult, Witchcraft, Mysticism, have good and bad ones, just like Churches, Mosques, etc, have good and bad ones.

An example is the HERMETIC ORDER OF THE GOLDEN DAWN, this is one of the greatest and famous occult group to have emerged from the 19th century occult revivals, the Golden Dawn is described as a society of occultist studying the highest practical magick somewhat akin to Rosicrucianism they have members like S.L. MacGregor Mathers, A.E. Waite,the great Aleister Crowley, Israel Regardie etc.

I have read their books and even taking time to do some of their ceremonys, Like the LBRP (Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram) etc.

Even one of their members published their teachings and their ceremonies,he was only taking to the court because upon the membership of society an oath was taken never to reveal the doctrines and practices of the group to the public.
And J. Langford Garstin(Golden Dawn member) begged him never again to refer to the Golden Dawn by name.

So you see the practices and ceremonies of the group is in bookshops all over the globe, get one, go through it, then judge. I for one practice these rituals and ceremonies on a daily basis and I am not a member of the Golden Dawn, I was not initiated, the beauty of this is that it is eclectic, as in you are allow to believe what ever you want to believe in, in the teachings of Jesus, Mohammed, in reincarnation, in yourself, in Osiris etc.

Trex, remember the creed:KNOW,WILL,DARE,KEEP SILENT, need I say more, lestI forget, would have replied to your post on the topic I posted a while back (Any Occultist In The House), was away on business. Maybe you could hit me up with your e-mail, we got lots to talk about.

Deep Sight:

^^^ You are so funny young man. You still don't get the point do you? Okay let me walk you through. You talk about ritual bloodshed as being a stain on African religions as opposed to the cosmogony of the "white man"

how did you conclude that i was a 'young man' as opposed to 'an old man'

Deep Sight:

Is your own christian religion not founded on the very idea of ritualistic human sacrifice in terms of the so called remission of sins by the murder of Jesus on the cross, as supposedly willed by your own christian God? ? ?

christianity is not founded on ritualistic human sacrifice,in case you didnt realise the old testament was all part of the bible as well,jesus christ offering his body as a sacrifice is largely symbolic of unconditional love and forgiveness this s different totally from your babalawos,oluwos and apenas who need the actual human blood to activate demonic influences and conjurations

Deep Sight:

If the very foundation of your christian religion is thus ritualistic human sacrifice, what gives you the unction and audacity to condemn other people for the very same act of ritualistic human sacrifice? ? ?

like i have stated christianity never ever promoted nor advocated for human sacrifice unless you care to show me where the bible enjoins this

Deep Sight:

Secondly, I want to assume that your knowledge of history is limited to that old fat book owned by your father. Otherwise you would not exculpate "white men" from acts of barbaric savagery and bloodshed thoughout history. Such has, infact, been their forte.

if you had intelligently and objectively read my comments and understood it in its entirety,you would have realised that the fat book as you refer to it was addressing just one point in a couple that i made which is human sacrifice and bloodshed of africans on their fellow brothers and sisters.

i have never said white people did not shed blood of africans,even a primary school social studies student will tell you that, the point here is that some of their religious crusaders,missionaries saved african babies from sure death to this day either 5 or 10 scottish pounds still has the picture of the incident of twins killing in nigeria including the name of some notable nigerians on its note.

let me intimate you with a few 'facts' from that fat book which you are at liberty to find out yourself
did you know that
ijebu was originally pronounced as ije-ibu in yoruba meaning food for the water/ocean? the paramount king then needed a wide expanse of land to keep the slaves destined to be offered up for the river godess as human sacrifice and they settled on where ijebu is presently situated when it was time they just plucked as many as they wanted and sacrificed them in the river.

did you know that the yoruba kings had to step over the blood of a young male when going inside the inner sanctum housing some gods and when coming out another slave had to be killed this time female for the king to step on the blood?

did you know that in some parts of youba land,human blood was used with other ingredients and applied to kolanut trees in order for a more bountiful yield?

i could go on and on about sacrifices made on behalf of kings,specific times of the year,on behalf of the war generals prince and princesses e.t.c

GODSON2009:

well how about the shedding of blood for starters?
while our so called progenitors were murdering innocent babies and twins using them to appease the gods,those 'white men' died of tse tse fly to save the children women etc fro your african religion
i was opportuned to read a thick volume owned by my dad which is an history of yorubas,culture and traditions in the pre colonial days and[b] i nearly shed tears on account of the capacity for evil and bloodshed exhibited[/b]
a religion like the african religion that advocates bloodshed and all sorts of evil is just wrong

Hahahahhahahahahhahahhhha. Oh shiit.

This Hypocrite has probably never read the Old Testament. Blood shed? Innocent babies killed? Babaric laws? Murder? Genocide? Plunder? ALL in the Bible.

Infact I challenge you, Name one so-called "evil" aspect of our traditional religion of old and I will show you an equivalent in the old testament. Hypocrites.

Maybe if you really read the "thick volumes" in your fathers library you would see that the sins you deride your " progenitors" for, the "white man" has done far far worse and it was the same man who took your brother and sisters and enslaved them like donkeys that brought this dirty religion of christianity to us. So stop contradicting yourself!

GODSON2009:

let me intimate you with a few 'facts' from that fat book which you are at liberty to find out yourself
did you know that
ijebu was originally pronounced as ije-ibu  in yoruba meaning food for the water/ocean? the paramount king then needed a wide expanse of land to keep the slaves destined to be offered up for the river godess as human sacrifice and they settled on where ijebu is presently situated when it was time they just plucked as many as they wanted and sacrificed them in the river.

did you know that the yoruba kings had to step over the blood of a young male when going inside the inner sanctum housing some gods and when coming out another slave had to be killed this time female for the king to step on the blood?

did you know that in some parts of youba land,human blood was used with other ingredients and applied to kolanut trees in order for a more bountiful yield?

i could go on and on about sacrifices made on behalf of kings,specific times of the year,on behalf of the war generals prince and princesses e.t.c

Right. These things did happen. But the point you seem to be missing is that you are only looking at one side of the story. The very foundation of your religion is human sacrifice. Why can't you seem the similarity? When it failed to rain, the Ijebu king concluded that his people must have offended the gods and sacrifices were made to appease them and obtain forgiveness for such sins so it might rain. Your religion teaches you exactly the same thing!
________

Seems Tudor's back from sabbatical!

GODSON2009:

how did you conclude that i was a 'young man' as opposed to 'an old man'

christianity is not founded on ritualistic human sacrifice,in case you didnt realise the old testament was all part of the bible as well,jesus christ offering his body as a sacrifice is largely symbolic of unconditional love and forgiveness this s different totally from your babalawos,oluwos and apenas who need the actual human blood to activate demonic influences and conjurations

like
i have stated christianity never ever promoted nor advocated for human sacrifice unless you care to show me where the bible enjoins thisif you had intelligently and objectively read my comments and understood it in its entirety,you would have realised that the fat book as you refer to it was addressing just one point in a couple that i made which is human sacrifice and bloodshed of africans on their fellow brothers and sisters.

i have never said white people did not shed blood of africans,even a primary school social studies student will tell you that, the point here is that some of their religious crusaders,missionaries saved african babies from sure death to this day either 5 or 10 scottish pounds still has the picture of the incident of twins killing in nigeria including the name of some notable nigerians on its note.

let me intimate you with a few 'facts' from that fat book which you are at liberty to find out yourself
did you know that
ijebu was originally pronounced as ije-ibu in yoruba meaning food for the water/ocean? the paramount king then needed a wide expanse of land to keep the slaves destined to be offered up for the river godess as human sacrifice and they settled on where ijebu is presently situated when it was time they just plucked as many as they wanted and sacrificed them in the river.

did you know that the yoruba kings had to step over the blood of a young male when going inside the inner sanctum housing some gods and when coming out another slave had to be killed this time female for the king to step on the blood?

did you know that in some parts of youba land,human blood was used with other ingredients and applied to kolanut trees in order for a more bountiful yield?

i could go on and on about sacrifices made on behalf of kings,specific times of the year,on behalf of the war generals prince and princesses e.t.c

Just look at this, Jesus' death is symbolic and not human sacrifice?? Hahahahahah Are you in actual fact denying that No blood was shed on the cross of calvary? This is like me putting 6 lead bullets into the head of the next man and claim its not murder but symbolism of my wickedness and psychopathic nature. Yea right!


what is the difference between your "God" requiring the shedding of HUMAN Blood, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD for forgiveness, mercy and favours and the same principle being required by the traditional religions of old?

As far as the christian God Is concerned, the payment for everything is. BLOOD, HUMAN BLOOD which was shed 2,000 years ago and you have the audacity to question the rationale of old traditional religions who practised human sacrifice? On what Moral Grounds?

If your God has the right to accept Blood payment for everything, why shouldn't others?

Voodoo and things!

GODSON2009:

how did you conclude that i was a 'young man' as opposed to 'an old man'christianity is not founded on ritualistic human sacrifice,in case you didnt realise the old testament was all part of the bible as well,jesus christ offering his body as a sacrifice is largely symbolic of unconditional love and forgiveness this s different totally from your babalawos,oluwos and apenas who need the actual human blood to activate demonic influences and conjurationslike i have stated christianity never ever promoted nor advocated for human sacrifice unless you care to show me where the bible enjoins thisif you had intelligently and objectively read my comments and understood it in its entirety,you would have realised that the fat book as you refer to it was addressing just one point in a couple that i made which is human sacrifice and bloodshed of africans on their fellow brothers and sisters.

i have never said white people did not shed blood of africans,even a primary school social studies student will tell you that, the point here is that some of their religious crusaders,missionaries saved african babies from sure death to this day either 5 or 10 scottish pounds still has the picture of the incident of twins killing in nigeria including the name of some notable nigerians on its note.

let me intimate you with a few 'facts' from that fat book which you are at liberty to find out yourself
did you know that
ijebu was originally pronounced as ije-ibu in yoruba meaning food for the water/ocean? the paramount king then needed a wide expanse of land to keep the slaves destined to be offered up for the river godess as human sacrifice and they settled on where ijebu is presently situated when it was time they just plucked as many as they wanted and sacrificed them in the river.

did you know that the yoruba kings had to step over the blood of a young male when going inside the inner sanctum housing some gods and when coming out another slave had to be killed this time female for the king to step on the blood?

did you know that in some parts of youba land,human blood was used with other ingredients and applied to kolanut trees in order for a more bountiful yield?

i could go on and on about sacrifices made on behalf of kings,specific times of the year,on behalf of the war generals prince and princesses e.t.c

I don't think I need to say much as Tudor and MyJoe have addressed your post already. Let me just note that the Old Testament is replete with the greatest horde of barbaric and murderous practices such as cannot be found anywhere else. The New Testament, for its part, is founded on the ritualistic human sacrifice of Jesus' blood. Thus you have no case, sir.

MyJoe:


________

Seems Tudor's back from sabbatical!

Hahahahah, I'm back from the dead. I was Shot several times in a car jacking months ago. I'm home with ma folks started physio 3 weeks ago now I can move better.

Just decided to log on with my cousins blackberry and check what's up. Where is everybody? Hope you are great!

You are kidding! Omg, hope you are feeling better? Where did this happen? Man, thank God for life o.

Tudór:

Hahahahah, I'm back from the dead. I was Shot several times in a car jacking months ago. I'm home with ma folks started physio 3 weeks ago now I can move better.

Just decided to log on with my cousins blackberry and check what's up. Where is everybody? Hope you are great!

Omg! That must have been traumatic. Glad you are alive and recovering. I'm wondering where, too? Hope it's not that you came to Naija for Christmas and ran into em boys! I'm doing good.

Tudór:

Hahahahhahahahahhahahhhha. Oh shiit.
This Hypocrite has probably never read the Old Testament. Blood shed? Innocent babies killed? Babaric laws? Murder? Genocide? Plunder? ALL in the Bible.

when you say old teatament,where in the old testament did christian murdered babies in cold blood or killed people in cold blood re occurently

Tudór:

Infact I challenge you, Name one so-called "evil" aspect of our traditional religion of old and I will show you an equivalent in the old testament. Hypocrites.

*how about leaving babies who are twins in the evil forest to slowly and systematically starve to death,some of those babies were reportedly killed by soldier ants crawling through their mouths and noses can you imagine that kind of death for an innocent child?
*burying slaves with dead kings to serve them in the after life
*pointless killing of people to celebrate their god's anniversary

Tudór:

Maybe if you really read the "thick volumes" in your fathers library you would see that the sins you deride your " progenitors" for, the "white man" has done far far worse and it was the same man who took your brother and sisters and enslaved them like donkeys that brought this dirty religion of christianity to us. So stop contradicting yourself!

totally agree with you when you use the words "white men"however to clarify i meant genuine white missionaries,big difference while the white soldiers of fortune,business people etc were pillaging and taking africans as slaves dont forget many missionaries died of tse tse fly,malaria etc to spread the gospel and liberate innocent people from certain death, to accurately put my points inperspective you should go back and watch the stepping stones documentary of the child witches of akwa ibom

MyJoe:

Right. These things did happen. But the point you seem to be missing is that you are only looking at one side of the story. The very foundation of your religion is human sacrifice. Why can't you seem the similarity? When it failed to rain, the Ijebu king concluded that his people must have offended the gods and sacrifices were made to appease them and obtain forgiveness for such sins so it might rain. Your religion teaches you exactly the same thing!
________

Seems Tudor's back from sabbatical!

of course i see the similarities but only in words not in deed which you have to admit makes all the difference,where in the bible did GOD or christians sanction the sacrifice of human beings to bring rain? and i can assure you that christianity teaches no such thing, definitely not

Tudór:

Just look at this, Jesus' death is symbolic and not human sacrifice?? Hahahahahah Are you in actual fact denying that No blood was shed on the cross of calvary? This is like me putting 6 lead bullets into the head of the next man and claim its not murder but symbolism of my wickedness and psychopathic nature. Yea right!

blood was shed on the cross yes,but before running haywire with your own conclusions hope you realise that it wasnt the christians that killed him?it is however our believe that irrespective of whoever did the killing,he allowed it to happen as a remission of our sins,

Tudór:

what is the difference between your "God" requiring the shedding of HUMAN Blood, BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD for forgiveness, mercy and favours and the same principle being required by the traditional religions of old?

he does not require the shedding of human blood,the blood of his son was shed by the romans/jews which he told us and we believe was for a specific purpose i.e cleansing our sins, its like the family of a murder victim saying their family member died for a higher/specific purpose,that doesnt mean that the perpetuator is the family or that the police will not charge and jail the perpetuator of the crime

Tudór:

As far as the christian God Is concerned, the payment for everything is. BLOOD, HUMAN BLOOD which was shed 2,000 years ago and you have the audacity to question the rationale of old traditional religions who practised human sacrifice? On what Moral Grounds?

If your God has the right to accept Blood payment for everything, why shouldn't others?

are you really rationalising the wholesale bloodshed and human sacrifices during the days of old especially pre colonial times with tis argument?

Deep Sight:

I don't think I need to say much as Tudor and MyJoe have addressed your post already. Let me just note that the Old Testament is replete with the greatest horde of barbaric and murderous practices such as cannot be found anywhere else. The New Testament, for its part, is founded on the ritualistic human sacrifice of Jesus' blood. Thus you have no case, sir.

when you say horde of barbaric and murderous practises i will ask by whom exactly?
christians?
what rituals exactly apart from the death of jesus christ,how can you gys even argue with a straight face that the death of a single individual is enough justification for hundreds of years of needless and pointless shedding of human blood??

Are you not confusing things? Were there Christians in the old testament?

You ask for instances of barbarity, don't worry, I will give you zillions.

Deep Sight:

You are kidding! Omg, hope you are feeling better? Where did this happen? Man, thank God for life o.

MyJoe:

Omg! That must have been traumatic. Glad you are alive and recovering. I'm wondering where, too? Hope it's not that you came to Naija for Christmas and ran into em boys! I'm doing good.

Thanks for your concern guys, I'm getting better now.

Na, it wasn't in Naija, I was supposed to travel back for xmas the next week. On that night I went out with one of my ex-CU dudes. We went to several parties and then a bar, by the time it was 11pm I had drunk soo much, I told waxy to drive. As we were on our way home we we're crossed and some gun wielding men and boys came, pulled us out, asked for the owner of the car I said I was, they knocked waxy in the head and shot him in the back then took me in and drove off to a secluded place.

Asked me to disable the security system and tracker I said fu,ck no, I am not losing two new cars in the space of 1 year next thing I was slapped and then the shots began they all shot at me. Funny enuf I wasn't feeling much pain

There I lay for almost an hour bleeding and No one was coming. I was bleeding seriously, felt myself going, started feeling cold and thirsty then I started hallucinating seeing some funny stuff. Looked up, saw I still had my car smiled to myself and Next thing I passed out.

Next time I woke it was 2011 january ending. The Docs told me I was a very lucky dude, on the night I was shot I had enuf alcohol in my tummy and system to get 3 men arrested. Said I was near Toxic dose. I should have died from the pain alone from d gun injuries but He said I was so numbed and sedated by the alcohol That's probably what saved my life.

Well since then I have gone through several surgeries to remove some fragments that couldn't be gotten when I was unstable. my folks brought me home and now since I'm stronger I've started proper physio. I plan to be up and running by ending of july when my brother will be graduating from CU.

So don't thank God or god for my life. Thank the nearest bottle of beer, whiskey, gin and scotch. All the days of my life I will forever kiss d bottle. Whoever said alcohol is a bad thing, well tell that to the marines.

@ Godson
I'll be back for you later tonight have an evening session to catch

Tudór:

Thanks for your concern guys, I'm getting better now.

Na, it wasn't in Naija, I was supposed to travel back for xmas the next week. On that night I went out with one of my ex-CU dudes. We went to several parties and then a bar, by the time it was 11pm I had drunk soo much, I told waxy to drive. As we were on our way home we we're crossed and some gun wielding men and boys came, pulled us out, asked for the owner of the car I said I was, they knocked waxy in the head and shot him in the back then took me in and drove off to a secluded place.

Asked me to disable the security system and tracker I said fu,ck no, I am not losing two new cars in the space of 1 year next thing I was slapped and then the shots began they all shot at me. Funny enuf I wasn't feeling much pain

There I lay for almost an hour bleeding and No one was coming. I was bleeding seriously, felt myself going, started feeling cold and thirsty then I started hallucinating seeing some funny stuff. Looked up, saw I still had my car smiled to myself and Next thing I passed out.

Next time I woke it was 2011 january ending. The Docs told me I was a very lucky dude, on the night I was shot I had enuf alcohol in my tummy and system to get 3 men arrested. Said I was near Toxic dose. I should have died from the pain alone from d gun injuries but He said I was so numbed and sedated by the alcohol That's probably what saved my life.

Well since then I have gone through several surgeries to remove some fragments that couldn't be gotten when I was unstable. my folks brought me home and now since I'm stronger I've started proper physio. I plan to be up and running by ending of july when my brother will be graduating from CU.

So don't thank God or god for my life. Thank the nearest bottle of beer, whiskey, gin and scotch. All the days of my life I will forever kiss d bottle. Whoever said alcohol is a bad thing, well tell that to the marines.

Infact, I am just speechless. Wow. Tudor you're a survivor men. Whether you like it or not, I just thanked God for your life. Abeg speediest and fullest of recovery be yours. Did they catch the scum who shot you?

Tudór:

Thanks for your concern guys, I'm getting better now.

Na, it wasn't in Naija, I was supposed to travel back for xmas the next week. On that night I went out with one of my ex-CU dudes. We went to several parties and then a bar, by the time it was 11pm I had drunk soo much, I told waxy to drive. As we were on our way home we we're crossed and some gun wielding men and boys came, pulled us out, asked for the owner of the car I said I was, they knocked waxy in the head and shot him in the back then took me in and drove off to a secluded place.

Asked me to disable the security system and tracker I said fu,ck no, I am not losing two new cars in the space of 1 year next thing I was slapped and then the shots began they all shot at me. Funny enuf I wasn't feeling much pain

There I lay for almost an hour bleeding and No one was coming. I was bleeding seriously, felt myself going, started feeling cold and thirsty then I started hallucinating seeing some funny stuff. Looked up, saw I still had my car smiled to myself and Next thing I passed out.

Next time I woke it was 2011 january ending. The Docs told me I was a very lucky dude, on the night I was shot I had enuf alcohol in my tummy and system to get 3 men arrested. Said I was near Toxic dose. I should have died from the pain alone from d gun injuries but He said I was so numbed and sedated by the alcohol That's probably what saved my life.

Well since then I have gone through several surgeries to remove some fragments that couldn't be gotten when I was unstable. my folks brought me home and now since I'm stronger I've started proper physio. I plan to be up and running by ending of july when my brother will be graduating from CU.

So don't thank God or god for my life. Thank the nearest bottle of beer, whiskey, gin and scotch. All the days of my life I will forever kiss d bottle. Whoever said alcohol is a bad thing, well tell that to the marines.

@ Godson
I'll be back for you later tonight have an evening session to catch

dude,you r playing russian roullete with your life because of a brand new car? is the car a daimler benz or a rolls or maserati or ferrari for you to dare ruthless armed robbers who have nothing to lose?
i left a brand new car with the nigerian police when they detained me and asked me to prove ownership as soon as they started acting funny untill my dad sent a driver to go sort it out later talk less of armed robbers

^and we don't know they wouldn't have gone ahead and shot her anyways and the fact they still didn't even take the car after they'd shot her down supports that. Unless you're actually in the situation one can't really say what was the 'best' thing to do.

JeSoul:

^and we don't know they wouldn't have gone ahead and shot her anyways and the fact they still didn't even take the car after they'd shot her down supports that. Unless you're actually in the situation one can't really say what was the 'best' thing to do.

i dont know if you r nigerian or not but i beg you in the name of GOD no matter how expensive your car is or the amount of money or valuables you have on you pls surrender everything to an armed robber i have not had the experience but my parents have and other ppl i know and i can tell you there is absolutely nothing that is as valuable as one's life.
she said in the comment above that they asked her to disable the security and she refused to they probably left the car due to this reason,if they are not hired killers the only objective of an armed robber is to take one's valuables and to neutralize any obstacle in their way, a friend of my dads always keeps 10 million naira at home permanently and the day armed robbers came visiting the money saved his life and prevented his daughter and wife from being raped

GODSON2009:

dude,you r playing russian roullete with your life because of a brand new car? is the car a daimler benz or a rolls or maserati or ferrari for you to dare ruthless armed robbers who have nothing to lose?
i left a brand new car with the nigerian police when they detained me and asked me to prove ownership as soon as they started acting funny untill my dad sent a driver to go sort it out later talk less of armed robbers

Russian Roulette ko, Chinese Chopsticks ni.

Nothing to lose? Those fukers shot my unarmed friend who was lying face down in the back TWICE.

We saw their faces very clearly. They just 'attemptedmurdered' my friend and took me away you think they gonna leave witnesses around?

I would still have been shot if I disabled my car security. I anit friggin losing both ways so I thought. I'd rather die fighting with dignity than being robbed like a fool and shot nonetheless.

Just seeing my car there alone gave me joy which at that moment felt like the most euphoric feeling of happiness I've ever had in my life. Don't worry , you'll never understand until you are there.

JeSoul:

Infact, I am just speechless. Wow. Tudor you're a survivor men. Whether you like it or not, I just thanked God for your life. Abeg speediest and fullest of recovery be yours. Did they catch the scum who shot you?

Thanks a lot sister. The fools who capped me are still running wild. I'll have my revenge one way or the other. Legal or illegal. Nuff said.

GODSON2009:

when you say old teatament,where in the old testament did christian murdered babies in cold blood or killed people in cold blood re occurently

Oh, check out one of many instances below.
I samuel 15 ;3

3  And God said, Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

The cannanites got the same treatment too, all innocent babies wiped out. Talk about babarism. And you feel u have the moral standing to criticize?

*how about leaving babies who are twins in the evil forest to slowly and systematically starve to death,some of those babies were reportedly killed by soldier ants crawling through their mouths and noses can you imagine that kind of death for an innocent child?

Oh really? I guess the babies in 1samuel 15; 3 are not innocent. Infact they are hardened criminals, Bad babies!

*burying slaves with dead kings to serve them in the after life

Slavery in itself is such a barbaric act and is not something that any holy book should condone. We being exploited for slavery should know better.

That the act of enslavement of a fellow human being in itself was tolerated in your bible and your God is enough indictment.

*pointless killing of people to celebrate their god's anniversary

Hahahah, do u even read your own bible? Pointless killing of people?

Talk about pointless, Killing 70,000 people because someone else refused to d a census "properly".

1 chronicles 21 1 -15

1  SATAN [an adversary] stood up against Israel and stirred up David to number Israel.
2  David said to Joab and the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba to Dan, and bring me the total, that I may know it.
3  And Joab answered, May the Lord multiply His people a hundred times! But, my lord the king, are they not all my lord’s servants? Why then does my lord require this? Why will he bring guilt upon Israel?
4  But the king’s word prevailed against Joab. So Joab departed and went throughout all Israel and came to Jerusalem.
5  Joab gave the total number of the people to David. And all of Israel were 1,100,000 who drew the sword, and of Judah 470,000 who drew the sword.
6  But Levi and Benjamin he did not include among them, for the king’s order was detestable to Joab.
7  And God was displeased with this [reliance on human resources], and He smote Israel.
8  And David said to God, I have sinned greatly because I have done this thing. But now, I beseech You, take away the hateful wickedness of Your servant; for I have done very foolishly. 9  And the Lord said to Gad, David’s seer,
10  Go and tell David, Thus says the Lord: I offer you three things; choose one of them, that I may do it to you. 11  So Gad came to David and said to him, Thus says the Lord: Take which one you will:
12  Either three years of famine, or three months of devastation before your foes, while the sword of your enemies overtakes you, or else three days of the sword of the Lord and pestilence in the land, and the angel of the Lord destroying throughout all the borders of Israel. Now therefore, consider what answer I shall return to Him Who sent me.
13  And David said to Gad, I am in great and distressing perplexity; let me fall, I pray you, into the hands of the Lord, for very great and many are His mercies; but let me not fall into the hands of man.
14  So the Lord sent a pestilence upon Israel, and there fell of Israel 70,000 men. 15  God sent an angel to Jerusalem to destroy it, and as he was destroying, the Lord beheld, and He REGRETTED and relented of the EVIL and said to the destroying angel, It is enough; now stay your hand. And the angel of the Lord stood by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.

Pointless killings indeed. Smh

totally
agree with you when you use the words "white men"however to clarify i meant genuine white missionaries,big difference while the white soldiers of fortune,business people etc were pillaging and taking africans as slaves dont forget many missionaries died of tse tse fly,malaria etc to spread the gospel and liberate innocent people from certain death, to accurately put my points inperspective you should go back and watch the stepping stones documentary of the child witches of akwa ibom

BIG deal! So what? Is it only so-called "christian missionaries" that have done good works? Even cults today are actively involved in charity. Most faiths do that. Dream up another line

Tudór:

Russian Roulette ko, Chinese Chopsticks ni.

Nothing to lose? Those fukers shot my unarmed friend who was lying face down in the back TWICE.

We saw their faces very clearly. They just 'attemptedmurdered' my friend and took me away you think they gonna leave witnesses around?

I would still have been shot if I disabled my car security. I anit friggin losing both ways so I thought. I'd rather die fighting with dignity than being robbed like a fool and shot nonetheless.

Just seeing my car there alone gave me joy which at that moment felt like the most euphoric feeling of happiness I've ever had in my life. Don't worry , you'll never understand until you are there.

well good for you,im not playing hardball wth some drugged up and crazed nuifn to lose nigerian armed robbers, even nigeria police that accosted me sriving in a brand new honda i left the car for them and took the next cab home,i cherish and respect every part of my body

@Tudor
O yee troubler of nairaland your are back, just read your saga, get well soon,  the forum has been so boring in your absence

@tudor
your comments are not arranged properly so it makes difficult reading and comprehension but i will try and take your points briefly one after the other

you gave the bible verse of 1st samuel 15;3 to back up your assertions,however you picked up a couple of verses out of a whole chapter just so you can back up your points,its like saying obama is in the same league as hitler for ordering the bombing of bin laden's hideout in abotabad without looking at the general context.secondly quoting from the bible to back up your assertions means you have to believe not only the actions but the reasons for those actions.

1.the old testament was a state of warfare and everything was settled with the sword,if you check the history of the amalekites from genesis you will realise that they were synonimous with evil,idol worshipping,they not only worshipped the sun gods etc they sacrificed their children to the gods etc
besides they were not christians at that stage those were jews.i hope you realise there is a massive difference between JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, the fact that the accounts are in the bible doesnt make them christians .

when you assert,do so with proof not hear say and conjecture,where in the bible did GOD condone slavery?? you mentioned the canaanites generally without any backing for a serious assertion show me where CHRISTIANS IN THE BIBLE killed people in cold blood!

its really grand of you to admit slavery is an heinous act,bringing me to a question i shuld ask you which is worse
white people enslaving us,or our own fore fathers not only enslaving each other,but betraying and selling their fellow nigerians to the white slave traders or did you think the portuguese,british slave traders just happened upon them in the bush,captured them and put them on boats?

while i cannot guage or rationalise the actions of GOD as he acts the way he wants in his infinite wisdom,you should go back and check the very first verse of the 1st chronicles 21 for the exegesis then go on to look closely at verses 11-13 they were given choices of punishment and by the way im sure you know what collective responsibility/punishment means, it is still practised in the army and other forces if one person does something wrong,the whole platoon was punished
the rationale of the 70,000 people killed was that he the lord  that expressely forbade anyone from doing a census in the first place the alpha and the omega would show his greatness by rendering the census david stubbornly did ineffective,remember he owns us,he created us and we are still going back to him.

and even with a handsful of incidents which was perpetuated by jews in a state of warfare in the old testament im at aloss how anyone will compare this to the level and quantum of continuous bloodshed that went on in african in the pre colonial times not only did they do the same thing you pointed out in the bible amongst each other,they went further to make slaves of themselves and then in adittion human and babies sacrifice which im suprised you didnt even mention and show me where that was in the bible and lastly its not only christian missionaries who did but what they went through doing what they did not only liberated the most vulnerable in african society i.e women who were treated worse than slaves,twin babies,so called witches and wizards on the say so of a "medicine man" continous human sacrifice.
have you seen the movie apocalypto,hope you realise its a true story?

you have a right to your african traditional believes but dont rationalise the decimation ignorance bloodshed slavery they broughtand perpetuated in africa pre colonial times,it is nothing compared to either the bible nor the quran do a quick census of how many gods only amongst the yorubas,ibos,and other tribes and then imagine the quantum of innocent souls that have been slaughtered enuff said!

GODSON2009:

of course i see the similarities but only in words not in deed which you have to admit makes all the difference,where in the bible did GOD or christians sanction the sacrifice of human beings to bring rain? and i can assure you that christianity teaches no such thing, definitely no

Again you keep denying the "deeds". Words eh. Blood was shed as " commanded", "prophesied" and "planned". 2000 years ago. As "payment" for Sins and for mercy. The DEED was done.

We are talking about principle here. If your God is allowed to accept Human blood (as was shed on calvary) as atonement for "sins" why the hell shouldn't the next God on mount Olympus do the same?

blood was shed on the cross yes,but before running haywire with your own conclusions hope you realise that it wasnt the christians that killed him?it is however our believe that irrespective of whoever did the killing,he allowed it to happen as a remission of our sins,

What is this? What does it matter if he was killed by aliens? Fact it is claimed his purpose here on earth was to DIE for YOU aka INCLUDING CHRISTIANS, it isn't supposed to matter who pulled the trigger him , according to your teachings YOU did. With your SINS.

The important fact here is Human blood was shed for your sins. So it was planned by your God from the beginning.

he does not require the shedding of human blood,the blood of his son was shed by the romans/jews which he told us and we believe was for a specific purpose i.e cleansing our sins,

He does not require blood sacrifice yet he orchestrates the coming and killing of a human as atonement for sins. If he does not require it, why accept it in the first place? Why send the son to earth? Why not send his only begotten goat, cow or donkey?

Fact; YOUR GOD accepted Human sacrifice for atonement of Sins. That is the principle we are working with here.

its like the family of a murder victim saying their family member died for a higher/specific purpose,that doesnt mean that the perpetuator is the family or that the police will not charge and jail the perpetuator of the crime

This is ridiculous. Firstly how was Jesus a victim? Why did he come to earth? Severally when he alluded to a purpose what was it, to come and turn water into wine? In your fit to wring yourself out of your contradictions you are just making terrible Blunders, Did the Jews really have a choice? Something which had been prophesied and designed by God and yet jesus is the victim here?


A family that orchestrates the murder of a son to atone for debt owed to them by others is a psychopathic family and should all be in jail.

are you really rationalising the wholesale bloodshed and human sacrifices during the days of old especially pre colonial times with tis argument?

No. I'm not rationalising anything. I am just telling you to get off your high-horse and stop raising up your own faith like its any cleaner or christianity is any better when your foundations are as rotten. Your hands are dirty too. Don't be a self-contradicting Hypocrite.

GODSON2009:

@tudor
your comments are not arranged properly so it makes difficult reading and comprehension but i will try and take your points briefly one after the other

Sorry, I have rearranged them. My hands weren't steady when I was typing then. No go back and read it.

you gave the bible verse of 1st samuel 15;3 to back up your assertions,however you picked up a couple of verses out of a whole chapter just so you can back up your points,its like saying obama is in the same league as hitler for ordering the bombing of bin laden's hideout in abotabad without looking at the general context.

Rubbish. Were innocent babies not exterminated in that verse or Not? Why are you complaining? Please tell me What Crime those children we're guilty of.

secondly quoting from the bible to back up your assertions means you have to believe not only the actions but the reasons for those actions.

"Secondly" quoting history to back up your assertions about african traditional religions means you have to believe not only the actions but the reason for those actions, How does this sound to you?

1.the old testament was a state of warfare and everything was settled with the sword,if you check the history of the amalekites from genesis you will realise that they were synonimous with evil,idol worshipping,they not only worshipped the sun gods etc they sacrificed their children to the gods etc

What is this? Yayayayyayayayay, And the olden days of our fathers were synonymous with peace? And everything wasn't settled with the sword? Is that even an excuse?

You are just ridiculous. Started bringing up foolish excuses to justify killings.

Or you think the rituals and beliefs of our traditional religions just started one morning? They had reasons for killing twins or burying slaves too, and they are just as bogus as your own reasons for God killing 70,000 people because of Census.

The amalakites were evil indeed. If you can summarily declare a group of people evil and wicked and exterminate them including babies, why can't other religions declare other people evil and kill them also?

The so-called Good people of the bible are equally as evil as d amalakites. They worship idols too, not so? And then kill children. Since when has idol worshipping being a justifiable reason for genocide? Were the innocent babies idol worshippers too?How someone thinks the best action to stop a tribe who kills its children is to come kill everybody in town and then help them finish off the children they haven't killed yet. That's very rich.

You seem to be making special rules for yourselves. Abeg, siddon one place.

besides they were not christians at that stage those were jews.i hope you realise there is a massive difference between JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, the fact that the accounts are in the bible doesnt make them christians .

Wow. Who were the Jews worshipping? Not the same God? According to your story is not God = Jesus = same genocidal maniac? Since they were not christians why not discard the old testament? These we're supposed to be instructions from Your Jesus/God and men after God/Jesus' heart yet we see all this.

If you worship Jesus you worship that same God. C'est fini

This is like a Reformed Ogboni man denying the old barbaric acts of his progenitors and claim they were not ROF members till the reformation. You are just a joker

when you assert,do so with proof not hear say and conjecture,where in the bible did GOD condone slavery??

Its is a widely known fact slavery was CONDONED in the bible. Even "God" had guidelines on how slaves should be treated, captured, sold, inherited, how their childern can be owned like puppies etc like common property.

Slavery in its entirety is WRONG. When a human being is treated like a property its inhuman.

Fact; slavery was widely practiced even in the time of Jesus.

Fact; Nowhere did Jesus ever condemn it.


Leviticus 25; 44 -46

44  As for your male and your female slaves whom you may have, they shall be from the nations round about you, of whom you may BUY male and female slaves.
45  Moreover, of the children of the strangers who sojourn among you, of them you may buy and of their families that are with you which they have begotten in your land, and they shall be your possession.
46  And you shall make them an inheritance for your children after you, to hold for a possession; of them shall you take your slaves ALWAYS, but over your brethren the Israelites you shall not rule one over another with harshness (severity, oppression).

The above is the word of YOUR Lord telling you to BUY foreign slaves (most of whom are prisoners of war sef or captured by raiders) and keep them as "possessions for PERMANENT heritance". Anyone who makes such declarations today will be arrested.

you mentioned the canaanites generally without any backing for a serious assertion show me where CHRISTIANS IN THE BIBLE killed people in cold blood!

Are you disputing the cannanites were systematically exterminated?

Deuteronomy 7 1-2

1  WHEN THE Lord your God brings you into the land which you are entering to possess and has plucked away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you,

2  And when the Lord your God gives them over to you and you smite them, then you must utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them, or show mercy to them.

Talk about murderers. You go and Kill people including innocent babies their crime; because they inhabit an expanse of land which you covet.

s really grand of you to admit slavery is an heinous act,bringing me to a question i shuld ask you which is worse
white people enslaving us,or our own fore fathers not only enslaving each other,but bet raying and selling their fellow nigerians to the white slave traders or did you think the portuguese,british slave traders just happened upon them in the bush,captured them and put them on boats?

So what? And the relevance of this is what? A human being is a human being be it your brother, sister or foreigner. The people of the bible maintained slaves. Thank Goodness you admitted its a terrible thing. Send that memo up to your God, he/she/it probably needs to know.

while i cannot guage or rationalise the actions of GOD as he acts the way he wants in his infinite wisdom,you should go back and check the very first verse of the 1st chronicles 21 for the exegesis then go on to look closely at verses 11-13 they were given choices of punishment and by the way im sure you know what collective responsibility/punishment means, it is still practised in the army and other forces if one person does something wrong,the whole platoon was punished
the rationale of the 70,000 people killed was that he the lord  that expressely forbade anyone from doing a census in the first place the alpha and the omega would show his greatness by rendering the census david stubbornly did ineffective,remember he owns us,he created us and we are still going back to him.

Oooooh Right. The long and short of this is Your "God" in His infinite wisdom has the right to kill and murder anyone as he created us, right?

Well well, I got news for you. So does Allah, so does Zeus. The different Gods of African religions also in their Infinite wisdom Have the right to kill, punish and demand whatever sacrifice or payment.

If your God isn't a wicked entity, I don't see why they should be labelled wicked and pointless killings.

Unless you can prove that right actually belongs to your yahweh and not others you are in effect blowing Hot air and Have NO right to criticise.

Why should we make an exception for you? The Gods in their infinite wisdom too requested people to be killed, Cry me a river.

and even with a handsful of incidents which was perpetuated by jews in a state of warfare in the old testament im at aloss how anyone will compare this to the level and quantum of continuous bloodshed that went on in african in the pre colonial times not only did they do the same thing you pointed out in the bible amongst each other,they went further to make slaves of themselves and then in adittion human and babies sacrifice which im suprised you didnt even mention and show me where that was in the bible

First thing, I have shown u instances where babies were murdered in cold blood in your same bible AS an Intruction from Your GOD. Whether you murdered a baby for sacrifice or as an instruction from your "lord" no one gives a mess, still the same thing.

Make slaves of themselves? This dude thinks its only afriqicans that enslaved one another. Go read up.

and lastly its not only christian missionaries who did but what they went through doing what they did not only liberated the most vulnerable in african society i.e[b] women who were treated worse than slaves,twin babies,so called witches and wizards on the say so of a "medicine man" continous human sacrifice[/b].
have you seen the movie apocalypto,hope you realise its a true story?

Women treated worse than slaves? Erm, what was the punishment for witches and wizards in your bible, pray tell me? Where women treated any better in the bible?

you have a right to your african traditional believes but dont rationalise the decimation ignorance bloodshed slavery they broughtand perpetuated in africa pre colonial times,it is nothing compared to either the bible nor the quran do a quick census of how many gods only amongst the yorubas,ibos,and other tribes and then imagine the quantum of innocent souls that have been slaughtered enuff said!

You think like a child, no offence. You think the atrocities mentioned in that book called the bible is all that there is to it? According to your warped logic the only people killed in the bible are the ones recorded.

And its also foolish to compare the imagine death toll caused by One tribe in the bible to the hundreds of thousands of different/diverse tribes in Africa. Do all african traditional religions practice the same thing? Where they all involved in human sacrifice? Did they all do baby sacrifices? Where they all burying slaves alive? Where they all Killing Twins? Did the sango worshipper kill twins? Did the mgwali worshipper in arua village bury slaves alive?

Talk about " rationalise the decimation ignorance bloodshed slavery they broughtand perpetuated", Fact is, Your God brought same in the OT, Your weak attempts to justify them nonetheless.

Your Religious History is very much as DIRTY as any african religion out there. I repeat, YOU HAVE NO MORAL GROUND to condemn.