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My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by GoodMuyis(m): 6:33pm On Jun 24, 2018
tomakint:


Your definition on Trinity is the doctored one and that which I believe is the truth but the original definition of Doctrine of Trinity under the Constatine the Great direction says the three are of the same substance with co-equal powers, influence and forms. Do you agree to this?

What if Doctrine of Trinity under the Constantine the Great direction is wrong presentation and we got it right, remember those who formed present the former and us are both human being, who used same Bible.

From what I have read so far, whatever they agreed under Constantine was not authoritative but based on vote, which mean those who got it right might have lesser vote, and here is where devil is at work, influence people to make wrong decision.

However from the Bible am reading personally, The Father, The Son, The Spirit are separate entity, where all receives glorification from The Father. They inseparable because of their accord in action, etc

DeOTR:
The doctrine of trinity that can not stand logical and biblical test.
There is YAHWEH (The God), there is YAHSHUA (The Son). The Holy Spirit is just the spirit (breath and the power)of God, not a separate being.

(Luke 3:22 [KJV])
And the Holy Ghost[The Spirit] descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him [The Son], and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I [The Father] [/b]am well pleased.

(1John 5:7 [KJV])
[b]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word[Son], and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


The account of Luke 3:22 show that the Three personality were present at the moment

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by tomakint: 9:56pm On Jun 24, 2018
GoodMuyis:


What if Doctrine of Trinity under the Constantine the Great direction is wrong presentation and we got it right, remember those who formed present the former and us are both human being, who used same Bible.

From what I have read so far, whatever they agreed under Constantine was not authoritative but based on vote, which mean those who got it right might have lesser vote, and here is where devil is at work, influence people to make wrong decision.

However from the Bible am reading personally, The Father, The Son, The Spirit are separate entity, where all receives glorification from The Father. They inseparable because of their accord in action, etc



(Luke 3:22 [KJV])
And the Holy Ghost[The Spirit] descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him [The Son], and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I [The Father] [/b]am well pleased.

(1John 5:7 [KJV])
[b]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word[Son], and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


The account of Luke 3:22 show that the Three personality were present at the moment

Your opinion on the Trinity doctrine based on my submission you quoted are in tandem so I ask again, do you think the Doctrine of Trinity as spread around through the Nicene Creed by Constantine the Great be preached in churches as we see it today?
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by OneJ: 12:51am On Jun 25, 2018
The bitter truth is that all the Bible verses that Trinitarians quoted to defend their fallacy were either distorted, forged or misconstrued. For instance, in the oldest ( 2nd & 3rd Century ) Greek manuscripts, in John 1:1 "god" was NEVER in big letters. It's in lowercase..
In fact, 14 different Bible Bible translations including the Sahidic Coptic Bible , (which dates back to the 2nd Century CE,) John1:1 reads: "in beginning existed the word & the word existed with the god & a god was the word".
Acts28:6 (KJV) have similar grammatical construction with John1:1. Honestly compare both & see the fraud in John1:1.(KJV).
In English language, does "god" & "God" mean different things? Yes !
Besides, 1tim3:16, 1john5:7 (KJV) are forgeries (not found in the oldest Greek manuscripts).
Jesus said "My father & I are one". in the same manner that husband & wife are one. Can two walk together unless they agree" Amos3:3. John17:11,21. Matt19:4-6..
Anywhere U see "Godhead" for your Bible, omo na forgery be that. Eee no dey for Greek manuscript.
If u know, U know.
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by DeOTR: 2:25am On Jun 25, 2018
GoodMuyis post=687830

(Luke 3:22 [KJV:

)
And the Holy Ghost[The Spirit] descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him [The Son], and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I [The Father] [/b]am well pleased.
So now, the third person in the Godhead is a bird right?
You should know that dove is a symbol of the Spirit of God-an emblem of purity and harmlessness, and the form of the dove was assumed on this occasion to signify, probably, that the spirit with which Jesus would be endowed would be one of purity and innocence. The same Spirit took the form of a tongue in Acts 2:3 to signify the power of language with which the Apostles would be endowed.
The Spirit of God is not a separate being, it's the essence of God himself.

[quote] (1John 5:7 [KJV])
[b]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word[Son], and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
[/quote ]
Most Bible commentaries that mention this addition tell us that it is a spurious comment added to the biblical text.
For God's sake, only 2 of the numerous Greek manuscripts contain this text.

Now if you search right throughout the Old Testament, you will not find one reference to a third being of the Godhead. What you will find are lots of references to God the Father and Jesus Christ whom He was to send to save us. ALL the references to the Holy Spirit are revealed as the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit being God's own Spirit. But the New Testament and inspiration tells us that the Holy Spirit is also the Spirit of Christ.

Mark 12:28-30 ...'And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.' ...
No, Jesus said our God is ONE Lord, the Father. Not three. Not one in three parts, but one!
And who is that 'one God' according to Jesus and the apostles above? It is God the Father.

And think about it. If 1 Timothy 2:5 says that Jesus is the Mediator between the one God and man, then it means Jesus cannot be the one God Himself, as He is the Mediator between the one true God and mankind. This is basic logic.
And how many beings are in the Godhead according to the above verses? TWO, not three.

I can give you dozens of verses that gives glory only to God and Jesus, not a mention of the Spirit as a separate person. Why? Because it's not a separate being.

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by GoodMuyis(m): 11:40am On Jun 25, 2018
tomakint:


Your opinion on the Trinity doctrine based on my submission you quoted are in tandem so I ask again, do you think the Doctrine of Trinity as spread around through the Nicene Creed by Constantine the Great be preached in churches as we see it today?

I will definitely not recommend what I do no believe.

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by GoodMuyis(m): 12:04pm On Jun 25, 2018
DeOTR:

The Spirit of God is not a separate being, it's the essence of God himself.

The Son is the son of God and I do believed without twisting word, he really meant he said in John15:26 and 16:13,
(John 15:26 [KJV]) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me....... (John 16:13 [KJV])
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


These are the words of Jesus himself, qualifying the Holy Spirit as a personality that hears, speak, etc

I wont go further on this matter, as we will not agree. But Praise be to God; Agree or Disagree non make us a lesser Child of God

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by tomakint: 1:04pm On Jun 25, 2018
DeOTR:

So now, the third person in the Godhead is a bird right?
You should know that dove is a symbol of the Spirit of God-an emblem of purity and harmlessness, and the form of the dove was assumed on this occasion to signify, probably, that the spirit with which Jesus would be endowed would be one of purity and innocence. The same Spirit took the form of a tongue in Acts 2:3 to signify the power of language with which the Apostles would be endowed.
The Spirit of God is not a separate being, it's the essence of God himself.


This is so deep my bro and God alone knows it all however I believe the doctrine of Trinity brought more confusion to Christianity than spirituality. Trinity is not Biblical.
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by DeOTR: 4:21pm On Jun 25, 2018
GoodMuyis:

(John 15:26 [KJV]) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me...(John 16:13 [KJV])
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

These are the words of Jesus himself, qualifying the Holy Spirit as a personality that hears, speak, etc
I wont go further on this matter, as we will not agree. But Praise be to God; Agree or Disagree non make us a lesser Child of God
We all know the Spirit that descended at pentecost. It's not a person, it's the Spirit of the Father.
What we believe, will determine who actually we're worshipping. Afterall, those who will received the mark would be deceived into worshipping a strange God. Trinity has it root in babylon. Rev. 17:5 is not for nothing.
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by LastDays777: 9:28pm On Jun 25, 2018
Revelation 19:13
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Nobody: 8:24am On Jun 26, 2018
ShadowFighter:
Then maybe you should try and explain John 1:1 to me.
Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved! Says a prophet( Joel 2:32) The problem here was caused by the translators who were trying to add meaning to the inspired writings. First they were using capital and small letters to distinguish between Gods which the inspired writers never did so whenever you see the word "God" in the Bible it is not a name instead it was used for all deities irrespective of whatever those worshipping such deity claims. Secondly Jehovah means(he causes to become) had it been every Bible reader understood that name then many will grasp the meaning of the scriptures. For example Jehovah caused dust to become a living soul, stick to serpent, water to blood and also caused Moses a man like you and me to become God! Exodus 7:1 HE also promised to make one of HIS spirit sons in heaven to come and serve as God on earth. Isaiah 9:6 So after this mighty spirit son of God has finished serving in that position John wrote "in the beginning WAS the word and the word WAS with God and the word WAS God" John 1:1 This is because Jesus was with Jehovah from the beginning as a Spirit being(Proverbs 8:22-30) so He has learnt so many things from His father as God was using Him to make all things, in fact that was why Jesus could correct anything that's wrong in the human body because He was the architect God used to create everything. Colossians 1:15,16 So by the time Apostle John was writing the gospel account in 98 ce Jesus is back in heaven sitting at the right hand of Jehovah who made Him HIS representative to come down and act as God in the midst of mankind! But Jesus never misused the powers given to Him unlike Moses who also served as God but got puffed up with pride out of inexperience! Phillip 2:6

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Nobody: 11:20am On Jun 26, 2018
Elohim means God in Hebrew language so Jupiter is the Elohim(God) of Romans,Zeus is the Elohim of Greeks,while Jehovah is the Elohim of Israelites. It's misinformed translators who were trying to add meaning to the inspired writings that caused all this confusion. Instead of living the text as the writers pened it down their presumptuous acts blurred the sense of readers. For example because there was a disagreement over how the divine name of the God of Israel was originally pronounced most translators decided to replace the name with the titles LORD or GOD. So when a reader gets to a place like Exodus 6:2,3 where it was written "I am Jehovah and i appeared to Abraham Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty but by my name Jehovah i wasn't known to them" How will a reader get the sense of the message if the NAME was rendered as LORD? Or Psalms 23:1 "Jehovah is my shepherd" or Psalms 110:1 "Jehovah said to my Lord" All these texts will become complex for the reader! So there are many texts that refers to the promised Messiah (Jesus) in the Hebrew Aramaic scriptures (Old Testament) where the writers referred to Jesus as Lord(Psalms 110:1 compared to Acts 2:34,35) but due to the errors of misinformed translators readers are confused as to the personality of the two persons. John 17:3 Imagine Joel 2:32 where the prophet wrote "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" a reader who later come across where the same quotation was referred to in Romans 10:13 will think it was Jesus' ñame that Joel had in mind! So there are just two persons involved in our salvation(John 17:3 compared to Act 7:55,56) the Holy Spirit is not a person but Jehovah caused HIS active force to energise believers in order to achieve HIS aims,this same spirit was poured out on THOUSANDS of believers (Joel 2:28 compared to Act 2:14-21) That's why Jesus sent out preachers and teachers to go and meet people in their homes helping them to understand the role of "Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Spirit" then baptise whoever believes for salvation! Matthew 28:19 There are so many people who don't know anything about the God of Israel so Jesus' command to go and meet people in their homes was necessary because they are already involved in one form of worship or another.Satan quickly arranged for counterfeit Christians to overshadow the original, that's why most people today who claims to be Christians are not following Jesus' orders.God bless you!

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Maamin(m): 2:22pm On Jun 26, 2018
Fredmatic:
You need the help of the holy ghost to understand the deep things of God, is not sth u go to theological school or mere reading it.

Jesus is God the son not God the father and both are equal in status, but Jesus don't count on it( just like twins childrend that you can hardly differentiate).

Also while on earth he made it clear to us as a father and son relationship, which are clear in all the example he gave and demonstrated

There is no such phrase as God the son in the Bible.

The Son of God is not the same as God the son

Neither was there any teaching supporting trinity doctrine in the bible.

1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

God is one and none is like him. None!

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Maamin(m): 3:17pm On Jun 26, 2018
Primesky:

God is a tripartite being. He is one in three and three in one. To naturally explain it, do this. Take water, put it into three separate containers. Put one in the freezer, boil one portion, and leave the other portion alone. The water in the freezer becomes ice, the water on fire becomes vapor, while you have the remaining one in its natural state as water.

Please, tell me, will I be wrong to say that the water turned ice is the same as the one in the natural state? Will I be wrong to say the water turned vapour is same as the one in the natural state? You see, water existing in three different state, but is one and the same water! However, by existing in three different states, water can perform different functions. But the Supreme among them could arguably be said to be water in the natural state.

God existing as the word (son), enabled Him to come to earth, and still remained in heaven as the Father at the same time. Let's assume it wasn't so, who would have been on the throne when God came down for man?

Another proof is where Jesus answering to a request by Philip to show the disciples the Father said, "... he who have seen me, have seen the Father..." John. 14:9

[s]To not believe the Trinity, is to not believe God[/s].

The trinity doctrine is not biblical. Your analogy has been dealt with sometimes in the past on Nairaland.

Jesus is sitting at the right hand of power (God) in revelation. Jesus is not Yahweh and neither are they coequal.

1 Cor. 15:24-28

24 Then cometh the end, when he(Jesus) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God(Yahweh), even the Father(Yahweh); when he(Jesus) shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he(Jesus) must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he(Yahweh) hath put all things under his(Jesus) feet. But when he saith all things are put under him(Jesus), it is manifest that he(Yahweh) is excepted, which did put all things under him(Jesus).

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him(Jesus), then shall the Son(Jesus) also himself be subject unto him(Yahweh) that put all things under him(Jesus), that God(Yahweh) may be all in all.

All the emphases in bracket are mine for clarity.

God(Yahweh) the father has no equal.

Shalom!

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Emusan(m): 4:49pm On Jun 26, 2018
tomakint:


Your opinion on the Trinity doctrine based on my submission you quoted are in tandem so I ask again, do you think the Doctrine of Trinity as spread around through the Nicene Creed by Constantine the Great be preached in churches as we see it today?

Funny of you because even after you quoted what happened at the council of Nicea you couldn't grab your own point.

Which means you blindly quoted it for your selfish interest.

These are the points you missed from the quote of council of Nicea:

1. The council of Nicea actually proved that Jesus' nature has been the talk of the day where people have different views about.

2. Majority of those who voted for Trinity are actually reputable scholars who are followers of oldest scholars like Polycap, Justin Martyr e.t.c

Now the question is, why did the council of Nicea hold?
The meeting holds because people are truly confused about the nature of Christ i.e whether Jesus was created or not.

Now Justin martyr who died in 125AD (in fact many scholars believed that he was one of Apostle John's disciples) has always debate about Jesus as uncreated being. Now, where did he get his information from? if not from Apostle John himself who wrote his own account about Jesus Christ as "....and the word was God...without Him(Christ) NOTHING (including the angles and heaven) was made" Jn 1:1,3

So you see it's not about Constantine who you try to paint as evil but about chronological history being followed.

Note:
-Justin Martyr 165AD a disciple of Apostle John believed that Jesus is uncreated being.
-Irenaous 200AD believed Jesus is eternal
-Clement of Alexandria 215AD believed in the eternal word of God who is the Son of God.
-Tertullian 230AD claim the same thing
-Hippolytus 235AD uphold the same belief
-And the council of Nicea happened in 325AD

So the council of Nicea only coined the word TRINITY which is the evidence from the early Church as the pray to Jesus Christ 1 Corin 1:2, called ETERNAL life in 1Jn1:2

Lastly, if you don't like the word TRINITY you can stop using it since even after the word was coined out it never appeared in any Bible version but you can't stop Honouring Jesus the way you Honour the Father... Jn 5:23, called Him everlasting father as Isaiah prophesied and deny Him being in the FORM of God as Apostle Paul confirmed it.

Also, I read one of your post where you claim that no creature can be compared with God which is actually what the scripture says but you forgot to acknowledge that the same scripture says Jesus is the IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD and the same Jesus uphold ALL THINGS by the WORD of His power.

Likewise, the scripture says Holy Spirit is an eternal spirit I know you can't deny this but only deny his person.
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Primesky(m): 7:12pm On Jun 26, 2018
Maamin:


The trinity doctrine is not biblical. Your analogy has been dealt with sometimes in the past on Nairaland.

Jesus is sitting at the right hand of power (God) in revelation. Jesus is not Yahweh and neither are they coequal.

1 Cor. 15:24-28

24 Then cometh the end, when he(Jesus) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God(Yahweh), even the Father(Yahweh); when he(Jesus) shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he(Jesus) must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he(Yahweh) hath put all things under his(Jesus) feet. But when he saith all things are put under him(Jesus), it is manifest that he(Yahweh) is excepted, which did put all things under him(Jesus).

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him(Jesus), then shall the Son(Jesus) also himself be subject unto him(Yahweh) that put all things under him(Jesus), that God(Yahweh) may be all in all.

All the emphases in bracket are mine for clarity.

God(Yahweh) the father has no equal.

Shalom!

You quote the scriptures that appeal to you, and you paraphrase them to suit what you believe. Are you saying that Jesus Christ is lying or is the bible now false?. Kindly explain these verses of the scriptures below:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in very nature of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;(NIV)


No doubt, the Father supersedes all, and is the head of the Trinity. But the way I understand your point, it seems, you're relegating Jesus Christ to something lesser. God is a trinity.
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Maamin(m): 11:41pm On Jun 26, 2018
You quote the scriptures that appeal to you, and you paraphrase them to suit what you believe. Are you saying that Jesus Christ is lying or is the bible now false?. Kindly explain these verses of the scriptures below:

Not really, all scriptures are God's inspired word and profitable. my paraphrasing was to convey a better understanding to you. Jesus was clear about who God the father is, they are not coequal in any trinity or whatsoever.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

There is no ambiguity in those verses from John, your understanding of the word "God" will help you to grasp it better. "God" is a title and as such can be ascribed to other created beings, this does not make or put them at per or coequal with God Almighty. It is clear that this word (Jesus) was with God(Yahweh).the word came from God(Yahweh) who is the father. John further said this word was God. This means that the word has a God and father too. Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." further shows that everything came by him.

Satan was called God of this age, Moses was made like God to Pharaoh, the Psalmist called us Gods, Jesus Quoted the Psalmist as well saying "Ye are Gods". God called the Son "God" in Hebrew 1:8 " But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. God always acknowledge that there are other Gods but there is none unto like him or worthy to be worshipped.Exodus 20:3-5

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Yes! Jesus is in the father and the father is in him, one of his main purpose of coming was to declare God the father to mankind, and when he was asked the first commandment he said "Love God with all your heart..". For it pleases God to dwell fully in Jesus that when you see him you automatically see God at work.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

They are one in purpose and will, this was made possible through the power of the holy spirit of God. The verse does not imply that Jesus is Yahweh the father...No!

John 17: 21-24
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

This shows that we are all one in christ Jesus and God the father. But does the verses above in any way make us Yahweh or God's coequal? Absolutely Not! Verse 24 further tells us that all what Jesus has (his glory) was given to him by God the father before even creation began and we can share in it too as joint heirs.


Philippians 2:6 Who, being in very nature of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;(NIV)

Whatever Nature Jesus has was given to him by the father because he loves him and shows him all his ways even from the beginning. All power and authority has been set under Christ but HE (Yahweh) that put all things under Christ is excepted as I had earlier shown you in 1 Cor 15:27. It is because of christ humility event to the cross that made him to be glorified at the right hand of power.

Hebrews 1:1-4
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Also..

John 17:5-7

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.


No doubt, the Father supersedes all, and is the head of the Trinity. But the way I understand your point, [b]it seems, you're relegating Jesus Christ to something lesser. [/b]God is a trinity.

There is no such thing as trinity. Neither am I in anyway relegating Christ to something lesser than what he himself has revealed in the scriptures,he said "the father is greater than I" John 14:28. Through out the entire scriptures, the Father is always seen given out instructions to Christ the Son and not the other way. Jesus has been glorified to the highest so I do not know what you mean by the bolden. The holy spirit is not a third person as taught by trinity doctrine, but the very essence and power of God through whom he quickens things to be.

The problem is that the initial trinity indoctrination which you find difficult to unlearn will make you see it as such.

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by tomakint: 12:44am On Jun 27, 2018
Maamin:



Not really, all scriptures are God inspired word and profitable. my paraphrasing was to convey a better understanding to you. Jesus was clear about who God the father is, they are not coequal in any trinity or whatsoever.



There is no ambiguity in those verses from John, your understanding of the word "God" will help you to grasp it better. "God" is a title and as such can be ascribed to other created beings, this does not make or put them at per or coequal with God Almighty. It is clear that this word (Jesus) was with God(Yahweh).the word came from God(Yahweh) who is the father. John further said this word was God. This means that the word has a God and father too. Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." further shows that everything came by him.



Yes! Jesus is in the father and the father is in him, one of his main purpose of coming was to declare God the father to mankind, and when he was asked the first commandment he said "Love God with all your heart..". For it pleases God to dwell fully in Jesus that when you see him you automatically see God at work.


They are one in purpose and will, this was made possible through the power of the holy spirit of God. The verse does not imply that Jesus is Yahweh the father...No!

John 17: 21-24
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

This shows that we are all one in christ Jesus and God the father. But does the verses above in any way make us God's coequal? No! Verse 24 further tells us that all what Jesus has (his glory) was given to him by God the father before even creation began and we can share in it too as joint heirs.




Whatever Nature Jesus has was given to him by the father because he loves him and shows him all his ways even from the beginning. All power and authority has been set under Christ but HE (Yahweh) that put all things under Christ is excepted as I had earlier shown you in 1 Cor 15:27. It is because of christ humility event to the cross that made him to be glorified at the right hand of power.




There is no such thing as trinity. Through out the entire scriptures, the Father is always seen given out instructions to Christ the Son and not the other way. The holy spirit is not a third person as taught by trinity doctrine, but the very essence and power of God through whom he quickens things to be.

Sir, I must confess you are a true Christian bequeathed with knowledge from above please keep up the good work of faith in the vineyard of God. Your expository dissection of the topic on Doctrine of Trinity is the best I have ever come across. You are a god!

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by tomakint: 12:48am On Jun 27, 2018
Maamin:


The trinity doctrine is not biblical. Your analogy has been dealt with sometimes in the past on Nairaland.

Jesus is sitting at the right hand of power (God) in revelation. Jesus is not Yahweh and neither are they coequal.

1 Cor. 15:24-28

24 Then cometh the end, when he(Jesus) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God(Yahweh), even the Father(Yahweh); when he(Jesus) shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he(Jesus) must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he(Yahweh) hath put all things under his(Jesus) feet. But when he saith all things are put under him(Jesus), it is manifest that he(Yahweh) is excepted, which did put all things under him(Jesus).

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him(Jesus), then shall the Son(Jesus) also himself be subject unto him(Yahweh) that put all things under him(Jesus), that God(Yahweh) may be all in all.

All the emphases in bracket are mine for clarity.

God(Yahweh) the father has no equal.

Shalom!

Honestly speaking the Holy Spirit is awesome for raising up a soldier of Christ on this thread to shed more light on the confusion that had rattled the church for too long a time. Trinity is a Doctrine of Men Jesus Christ warned us about in the Bible!

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Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by tomakint: 12:53am On Jun 27, 2018
Emusan:


Funny of you because even after you quoted what happened at the council of Nicea you couldn't grab your own point.

Which means you blindly quoted it for your selfish interest.

These are the points you missed from the quote of council of Nicea:

1. The council of Nicea actually proved that Jesus' nature has been the talk of the day where people have different views about.

2. Majority of those who voted for Trinity are actually reputable scholars who are followers of oldest scholars like Polycap, Justin Martyr e.t.c

Now the question is, why did the council of Nicea hold?
The meeting holds because people are truly confused about the nature of Christ i.e whether Jesus was created or not.

Now Justin martyr who died in 125AD (in fact many scholars believed that he was one of Apostle John's disciples) has always debate about Jesus as uncreated being. Now, where did he get his information from? if not from Apostle John himself who wrote his own account about Jesus Christ as "....and the word was God...without Him(Christ) NOTHING (including the angles and heaven) was made" Jn 1:1,3

So you see it's not about Constantine who you try to paint as evil but about chronological history being followed.

Note:
-Justin Martyr 165AD a disciple of Apostle John believed that Jesus is uncreated being.
-Irenaous 200AD believed Jesus is eternal
-Clement of Alexandria 215AD believed in the eternal word of God who is the Son of God.
-Tertullian 230AD claim the same thing
-Hippolytus 235AD uphold the same belief
-And the council of Nicea happened in 325AD

So the council of Nicea only coined the word TRINITY which is the evidence from the early Church as the pray to Jesus Christ 1 Corin 1:2, called ETERNAL life in 1Jn1:2

Lastly, if you don't like the word TRINITY you can stop using it since even after the word was coined out it never appeared in any Bible version but you can't stop Honouring Jesus the way you Honour the Father... Jn 5:23, called Him everlasting father as Isaiah prophesied and deny Him being in the FORM of God as Apostle Paul confirmed it.

Also, I read one of your post where you claim that no creature can be compared with God which is actually what the scripture says but you forgot to acknowledge that the same scripture says Jesus is the IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD and the same Jesus uphold ALL THINGS by the WORD of His power.

Likewise, the scripture says Holy Spirit is an eternal spirit I know you can't deny this but only deny his person.

You clearly misunderstood my position on this hotly debated topic, Maamin is one brother here you need to read his post. My position on Constanstine is not to hold anything against him, but to point to you folks that the Trinity Doctrine is not Biblical but Doctrines of Men evoked by Constanstine and some Bishops in order to debate about the "Divinity of Jesus Christ" while the issue of Trinity coming up was not anticipated. Understand the matter, Trinity is not Biblical!
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Nobody: 4:05am On Jun 27, 2018
Primesky:

God is a tripartite being. He is one in three and three in one. To naturally explain it, do this. Take water, put it into three separate containers. Put one in the freezer, boil one portion, and leave the other portion alone. The water in the freezer becomes ice, the water on fire becomes vapor, while you have the remaining one in its natural state as water.

Please, tell me, will I be wrong to say that the water turned ice is the same as the one in the natural state? Will I be wrong to say the water turned vapour is same as the one in the natural state? You see, water existing in three different state, but is one and the same water! However, by existing in three different states, water can perform different functions. But the Supreme among them could arguably be said to be water in the natural state.

God existing as the word (son), enabled Him to come to earth, and still remained in heaven as the Father at the same time. Let's assume it wasn't so, who would have been on the throne when God came down for man?

Another proof is where Jesus answering to a request by Philip to show the disciples the Father said, "... he who have seen me, have seen the Father..." John. 14:9

To not believe the Trinity, is to not believe God.

Your ice example is very popular buts it's actually not Trinity! I believe in it even though I don't understand it. That's why we are Christian, a Faith based religion. Now back to your example, it's called modalism or Sabellianism..
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Nobody: 4:23am On Jun 27, 2018
I think that people don't understand the meaning of "God". God is not an individual but an office, Authority or Power. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one God. The Father decides to share authority with the Son and the Holy Spirit. Their being is in unity, and they are three beings but one God, a unit comprised of three beings acting together.
The beginning mentioned in John is the physical begining, you know when creation started physically, Jesus has been in existence with angels long before then...
That is how I understand Trinity.
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by candelahria(f): 5:16am On Jun 27, 2018
Read Psalm 110:1.Does that sound like a mistake to u?

1 Like

Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Maamin(m): 7:50am On Jun 27, 2018
tomakint:


Sir, I must confess you are a true Christian bequeathed with knowledge from above please keep up the good work of faith in the vineyard of God. Your expository dissection of the topic on Doctrine of Trinity is the best I have ever come across. You are a god!

The Trinity doctrine is not supported by scriptures, it was never taught by Christ, his disciples or the early Christians.

It is so unfortunate that so many churches teaches this mystery babylonian doctrine today. But surely as God lives, he will restore back his true words right in our heart.

Shalom aleikhem!

3 Likes

Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Emusan(m): 9:32am On Jun 27, 2018
tomakint:


You clearly misunderstood my position on this hotly debated topic, Maamin is one brother here you need to read his post. My position on Constanstine is not to hold anything against him, but to point to you folks that the Trinity Doctrine is not Biblical but Doctrines of Men evoked by Constanstine and some Bishops in order to debate about the "Divinity of Jesus Christ" while the issue of Trinity coming up was not anticipated. Understand the matter, Trinity is not Biblical!

Just imagine!

So you means Justin Martyr who supposed be a disciple of Apostle John is wrong for believing Jesus is eternal and not created?

That's why I have to go back in time to show you those who already uphold the divinity of Jesus Christ even before the council of Nicea happened.

So it's either you accept the account of those who closed to the real Apostles of Christ or reject it.

My point is this, before the council of Nicea majority of well known scholars whose their impact can't be written off in Christianity history hold the belief in Jesus and Holy Spirit Divinity as supported by many verses in the scripture. So the council of Nicea ONLY coined the word TRINITY to address the divinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Like I said, you can discard the word TRINITY if you don't like but the DIVINITY of Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit is well established in the scripture.
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Emusan(m): 9:43am On Jun 27, 2018
Maamin:


The Trinity doctrine is not supported by scriptures, it was never taught by Christ, his disciples or the early Christians.

Shalom aleikhem!

This is the lie that you people always peddle

Justin Martyr is one of the early Christian who died 165AD he defended Jesus Christ divinity always
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Nobody: 10:03am On Jun 27, 2018
Emusan:


This is the lie that you people always peddle

Justin Martyr is one of the early Christian who died 165AD he defended Jesus Christ divinity always
Justin Martyr could live during that time,he can believe and defend any form of doctrine but that doesn't change the fact that the person speaking in Proverbs 8:22-34 was Jesus and that quoted scripture clearly said God created him period! Colossians 1:15,16 1Corinthians 15:27,28 I think the word FIRST BORN implies a beginning or birth

1 Like

Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Maamin(m): 10:39am On Jun 27, 2018
Arondizuogu:
I think that people don't understand the meaning of "God". God is not an individual but an office, Authority or Power. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one God. The Father decides to share authority with the Son and the Holy Spirit. Their being is in unity, and they are three beings but one God, a unit comprised of three beings acting together.
The beginning mentioned in John is the physical begining, you know when creation started physically, Jesus has been in existence with angels long before then...
That is how I understand Trinity.

With this your analogy, we should be having 3 Gods sitting on their respective throne in heaven but it's not so. Only the son is at the right hand of God.

No matter how you twist this, the Trinity doctrine is not biblical. Moreover the bible speaks of the seven spirits of God, I guess they are also a personal being in trinity?

When Triniterians tend to argue this doctrine out, there still seem to be that void space or little mention of the place of the Holy spirit in the triune.

May God open our inner understanding of the scriptures and Gospel is Christ.
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Maamin(m): 10:51am On Jun 27, 2018
Emusan:


This is the lie that you people always peddle

Justin Martyr is one of the early Christian who died 165AD he defended Jesus Christ divinity always

Surely Jesus is divine, but he is not Yahweh or coequal to Yahweh his father in any triune relationship as taught by triniterians.

Here is Jesus claim of his divine precedence

John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father."

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

Now what about the holy spirit?
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Emusan(m): 11:10am On Jun 27, 2018
Maamin:


Surely Jesus is divine, but he is not Yahweh or coequal to Yahweh his father in any triune relationship as taught by triniterians.

Here is Jesus claim of his divine precedence

John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father."

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

Now what about the holy spirit?

Laughing hard.....
So, you agree Jesus Christ is divine but not YAHWEH, why is it divine then?

In case you don't know, DIVINITY simply means Deity! So agree Jesus is divine in one breath and deny His deity in another breath shows insincerity of you.

These are the verses that talked about Jesus deity in the scripture.

-He is a Mighty God and EVERLASTING Father...Isaiah 9
-He is ETERNAL life 1 Jn 1:2

These two verses alone are enough evidence that Jesus is God but not the Father because in human knowledge ONLY God is Everlasting and ETERNAL!
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Ayomivic(m): 11:53am On Jun 27, 2018
tomakint:
God is Supreme and He Alone Is One but how come some Christians call Jesus God When the Bible never said so. Below is my take with references from the Holy Scriptures;

I Saw In The Night Visions, And, Behold, One Like The Son Of Man (Jesus Christ) Came With The Clouds Of Heaven, And Came To The Ancient Of Days (God Almighty Father, Yahweh), And They Brought Him Near Before Him. (Daniel 7: 13)
The Revelation Of Jesus Christ, Which God (Yahweh, Jehovah) Gave Unto Him, To Shew Unto His Servants Things Which Must Shortly Come To Pass; And He Sent And Signified It By His Angel Unto His Servant John: (Revelation 1:1)

Jesus Said Unto Them, If God Were Your Father, Ye Would Love Me: For I proceeded Forth And Came From God (Yahweh); Neither Came I Of Myself, But He Sent Me. (John 8: 42) How Come Trinitarians Are Preaching Three Gods With Equal Powers And Strength When The Bible Never Said So. What Do You Believe? Bible Never Calls Jesus As God Almighty But Calls Him Only Begotten Son Of God Who Is Subservient To God Almighty And Was Sent By God To Redeem All Mankind To God Almighty By The Shedding Of His Precious Blood As Instructed By The Ancient Of Days.

God alone was God as you said no other God apart from him.

You have lied by saying Jesus was not called God almighty. isaiah 6:9 called him God almighty unelse you dont believe in that verse
the issue of Trinity was not formulated by christians,it was what was revealed by God himself through his prophets, through angel and by Jesus himself .Trinity did not signify three seperate Gods that have power to do things on their owns but three power that esist in one God. God himself who is one, his word and spirit .All these three can not esist without the other.Can God created things without through his word and spirit and the word and spirit can not do anything is God does not use them. They can not procceed without their owner. Can anyone speek when he does not wont to speek?My word belong to me but when i speek people can fault or praise me by my word.My word can only be my word it can not be claim by another person

Jesus is pure word of God. It was God the father word that turned to man Jesus..It procceeds from God. It was through this thesame word God created all he created that was what the John 1.1 was telling us while Isiagq 9:6 made us to understand tha,t that word is not just an ordinary word but God himself..And Jesur was in surport of this when he Said iam in my father and my father in me. I and my father are one

Daniel 7:13 did not say Jesus is son of man but said the person he saw in his vission look like son of man. The question op should ask himself about this werse are why was that person that look like man was given dominon over all things God has made? Why did Acient of day gave power to this son of man look alike to be served by people, nations and languages? Why was he given everlasting kingdom that can not be destroyed? God has exalted his word. That what David said throuph the spirit.

" you have exalted your word above all your name (psalm 138:2)'

Quran also agreed that Jesus was word of God. And the word of God is God.
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by Maamin(m): 12:03pm On Jun 27, 2018
Laughing hard.....
So, you agree Jesus Christ is divine but not YAHWEH, why is it divine then?

In case you don't know, DIVINITY simply means Deity! So agree Jesus is divine in one breath and deny His deity in another breath shows insincerity of you.

These are the verses that talked about Jesus deity in the scripture.

At the bolden, show me where I denied his deity? angry


-He is a Mighty God and EVERLASTING Father...Isaiah 9
-He is ETERNAL life 1 Jn 1:2

Jesus is a Mighty God but not the Almighty God. Because Jesus also have an ALMIGHTY GOD ABOVE HIM.

John 5:26 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;"

Everything Jesus is, is given/made by his Father the Almighty God.

These two verses alone are enough evidence that Jesus is God but not the Father because in human knowledge ONLY God is Everlasting and ETERNAL!

Good, at least this is a head start for you..but You still haven't fix the holy spirit in your tri-unity. It looks like you are leaving him out.
Re: My Take On The Doctrine Of Trinity And Those Saying Jesus Is God Almighty! by budaatum: 12:30pm On Jun 27, 2018
tomakint:


You just helped a brother to the deeper meaning in the relationship among the 3 distinct Beings, who are; God Almighty, Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit. I just pray he will understand the Holy Scriptures through the interpretations of the Holy Spirit that teaches us the Truth and not through the interpretations of his Pastors that lead to Doctrines of Men! Trinity is a Doctrine of Men which the Bible warns us against. As I am typing now, trinity teaching has bring more confusion into the household of faith than belief.
However, while properly demoting Jesus from being a god, let us wonder why he was deemed elevatable to that position in the first place. His impact was after all so significant that he was so elevated despite the "I am a jealous God".

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