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Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm - Religion - Nairaland

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"Touch NOT My Anointed..." What Does It Really Mean? / ‘Touch Not My Anointed’ / "touch Not My Anointed" Taken Out Of Context Explained (1) (2) (3) (4)

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Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by ogoamaka99(m): 10:22am On Jun 03, 2010
"Touch not my anointed and do my prophet no harm" is a serious waring GOD gave concering his anointed.( 1 chr.16;22). I decided to post this article to advice of the danger in trying to harm anointed men of GOD.I am saying this for the sake of those who write only articles that are aimed at discrediting anointed men of GOD like T.B.Joshua, bishop Oyedopo, pastor Chris,pastor Adeboye etc.
When we write & post articules with the aim of discrediting anointed men of GOD is nothing but a dangerous voyage that may sink ones boat in the middle of an occean because GOD does not take it likely with does doing so. We saw similer example in the Bible(the book of Numbers chapter 12 where GOD struck MIRIAM with leprousy for daring to crictisize MOSES. Even though her cricticism may be justified yet GOD punished her for opening her mouth against Moses.So i advice those who write and post negative articules about anointed men of GOD as well as those who reply to those articules to be very careful to avoid attracting the wrath of GOD. We should write and discuss issues rather than persons , how much more anointed men of GOD.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 11:38am On Jun 03, 2010
Scripture in the New Testament defines who the "anointed" are, and they are not a special class of teachers and preachers who are self-proclaimed to have a unique position in relation to God. The anointed are all Christians in concert as stated by the apostle John, "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. . . . As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him," 1 John 2:20, 27 (NAS).

False teachers and false prophets even attempt to circumvent that reality by claiming that they are not only anointed like every other Christian, they are doubly anointed, claiming they are twice as significant and important in the eyes of God as their followers, and then they claim that their ministry is anointed also. Perverting the Scripture in order to maintain their self-proclaimed status, they exalt themselves to a position which they do not have, and undiscerning Christians support them in their outrageous claims and in the process submit the Bible to the authority of their teachers instead of demanding that their teachers come under the authority of the Bible.

Christians are deceived by their false teachers and preachers, because they willfully ignore what the Scripture says, and as a consequence they deceive themselves, resulting in deception by others.

It is unacceptable to use 1 Chronicles 16:22 as a defense against speaking against teachers and preachers, because of the absurdity of taking that position. The prohibitions in the time of the Old Testament reveal the problem, because Deuteronomy 18:20 states that false prophets must be put to death, Deuteronomy 13:1-5 states that no one must follow a false prophet and that those false prophets should be put to death. Deuteronomy 13:6-10 states that even family members who teach false doctrines should be put to death. How is it possible that the prophecies and doctrines of prophets could be revealed to be false, or that they could be condemned to death, unless charges were made against them and their prophecies revealed to be false by a comparison with the Scripture? If no one spoke against the prophets, it could never be said that they were false prophets and no judgment would ever be applied against them, which would have been a direct violation of the command of God. Even prophets are not exempt from the scrutiny of their doctrines and prophecies through a comparison with Scripture.

Many Christians would claim that the only proper response to immoral and illegal conduct, and the false teaching of many Christian leaders, is not to confront it, but only to pray for those individuals. It is well that we should pray for them, but many Christians engage in pointless prayers by constantly seeking guidance, when it is already revealed in the Scripture and their prayers go amiss when they continue to support and accept leadership that is specifically condemned by the Scripture.

Many in the Christian world claim that Christians should simply be loving, caring, accepting and tolerant with no doctrinal differences becoming an issue. They would claim that all deviant actions of their favorite religious leaders should be forgiven and accepted with no punishment applied, even when no true repentance is ever expressed. However, that is a false application of forgiveness. Truly, the heart of the Christian doctrine is forgiveness, but it is forgiveness obtained at a terrible price, that being the death of Jesus Christ on the cross by which he took the punishment for sins committed by humanity. Who pays the price for the actions of false teachers, false prophets and immoral preachers, which Christians are supposed to forgive? It is those false teachers, prophets and immoral preachers who are then allowed to continue in their excesses without accountability and it is those who have been deceived, abused and robbed who pay the price, and will continue to pay the price because the actions will continue. Even forgiveness by God is predicated on repentance by the forgiven and not forgiveness with continuation in that which is to be forgiven. Is a murderer forgiven only to be allowed to kill again? The apostle Paul addressed the issue specifically, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 6:1-2 (NAS).

What many Christians are advocating is not forgiveness, but sanction without discernment, which is a much different circumstance than forgiveness
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 11:44am On Jun 03, 2010
Furthermore Jesus said "But you are NOT to be called Rabbi, for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do NOT call anyone on earth Father; for you have only one Father and He is in Heaven. Nor are you to be called teacher, for you have one Teacher, the CHRIST". The greatest among you will be your servant for whoever exalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." Matt 23: 8 and 9

In effect, no man is more anointed than the other (all being equal in the eyes of the Lord) and only the Lord, the CHRIST is Teacher, Rabbi, Master and Father.

You however, may choose to stand against God's Word and call a human "the Anointed" or your "Father" in the hope of a "prophet's reward" Remember though, we are in the New Testament days and not living with Elijah. Enjoy your days  cheesy

EDIT: http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-439112.0.html#msg5978101

DAVIDYLAN WROTE:

I guess a lot of folks forget that the verse in particular was reserved for heathen kings and nations through which the Israelites passed on the way to the promised land. Some of the nations who dared disobey this command (the amalekites) payed dearly for it. However it is instructive to note that no such commandment was given to Israelites themselves concerning their prophets. Elijah had a good time slaughtering the "prophets" of Baal on mount carmel.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Jenwitemi(m): 11:50am On Jun 03, 2010
"Touch Not My Annointed", the self-created modern day immunity for pious fraudsters.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Joagbaje(m): 7:46pm On Jun 03, 2010
Jenwitemi:

"Touch Not My Annointed", the self-created modern day immunity for pious fraudsters.

nuclearboy:

Furthermore Jesus said "But you are NOT to be called Rabbi, for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do NOT call anyone on earth Father; for you have only one Father and He is in Heaven. Nor are you to be called teacher, for you have one Teacher, the CHRIST". The greatest among you will be your servant for whoever exalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." Matt 23: 8 and 9

In effect, no man is more anointed than the other (all being equal in the eyes of the Lord) and only the Lord, the CHRIST is Teacher, Rabbi, Master and Father.

You however, may choose to stand against God's Word and call a human "the Anointed" or your "Father" in the hope of a "prophet's reward" Remember though, we are in the New Testament days and not living with Elijah. Enjoy your days  cheesy

EDIT: http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-439112.0.html#msg5978101

DAVIDYLAN WROTE:

I guess a lot of folks forget that the verse in particular was reserved for heathen kings and nations through which the Israelites passed on the way to the promised land. Some of the nations who dared disobey this command (the amalekites) payed dearly for it. However it is instructive to note that no such commandment was given to Israelites themselves concerning their prophets. Elijah had a good time slaughtering the "prophets" of Baal on mount carmel.


You guys have things all wrong. There are different kinds of annointing. We are not all operating in thesame annointing. Every Christian is annointed . But some are annointed over others.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Jenwitemi(m): 7:53pm On Jun 03, 2010
Joagbaje:
Every Christian is annointed .
Every human being on this planet is annointed. In fact, all creation is annointed. Go easy on the egotripping.

Joagbaje:

But some are annointed over others.
And who are the "specially" annointed ones, please? Mind mentioning some of them? As far as i am concerned, everybody is equally annointed by the creator. Too much egotrippinh is very unspiritual.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 8:57pm On Jun 03, 2010
@Joagbaje:

Basically then, what you're saying is that the "new revelation knowledge" you guys have informs you that Jesus was wrong to say "Only ONE Rabbi, Only ONE Father, Only ONE Teacher"?

Note that when JESUS said "teacher", He then went further to say the teacher is "THE CHRIST". If Jesus says the teacher is Christ and you say your pastor is "teacher", what/who are you saying your pastor is? Think about that and stop this idolatry. What you would be better served saying is that some have displayed/utilized their anointing more, not what you said
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by aletheia(m): 11:20pm On Jun 03, 2010
Joagbaje:

There are different kinds of annointing.
Scripture verses that support the above needed please.
Joagbaje:

We are not all operating in thesame annointing.
Scripture verses that support the above needed please.
Joagbaje:

Every Christian is annointed . But some are annointed over others.
Why does this have a familiar ring? Hmmm. . .I know: Animal Farm
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by aletheia(m): 11:39pm On Jun 03, 2010
^^^Two different words translated as anointing or anointed in KJV:
1. G5545 χρίσμα chrisma (from which we derive the English word charisma)
From G5548; an unguent or smearing, that is, (figuratively) the special endowment (“chrism”) of the Holy Spirit: - anointing, unction.
Occurring 3 times in:
1 Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

Interesting that the two verses above occur in the context of an extended warning against false teachers (the very ones that seem to bandy about the words "anointing" or "anointed"!)
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. (1 John 2:18-29)

2. G218 ἀλείφω aleiphō

From G1 (as a particle of union) and the base of G3045; to oil (with perfume): - anoint.

Total KJV Occurrences: 9
as anointed, 5
Mark 6:13, Luke 7:38, Luke 7:46, John 12:2-3 (2)
as anoint, 3
Matt 6:17, Mark 16:1, Luke 7:46
as anointing, 1
James 5:14
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Mudley313: 11:55pm On Jun 03, 2010
annointed ko, annointed ni. your aforementioned so-called annointed men of dog are as annointed as lawrence anini, fred ajudua and abacha combined but wrapped in the so-called word of gawd that they so regularly use to deceive the poor masses.

When we write & post articules with the aim of discrediting anointed men of GOD is nothing but a dangerous voyage that may sink ones boat in the middle of an occean because GOD does not take it likely with does doing so. We saw similer example in the Bible(the book of Numbers chapter 12 where GOD struck MIRIAM with leprousy for daring to crictisize MOSES. Even though her cricticism may be justified yet GOD punished her for opening her mouth against Moses

very well crafted threat thats suppose to scare the silly and gullible, backed by a fairy tale example from the mythical book of the jews. mr. man, na mumu go kill you. ignoramus
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 8:50am On Jun 04, 2010
cheesy cheesy cheesy

As Always, my Oga Aletheia knows the place I was looking for but couldn't find. 1 Jn 2:27. Thank you SIR smiley

@Joagbaje:

God's Word says you have NO NEED that ANY man teach you. For it is the SAME Anointing that teaches you of all things and all truth. It also says "you know ALL things" which I understand to mean that ANYTHING you have need of, that SAME anointing will make available to you. That God's anointing O, not pastor chris"T" or woli Kumuyi or bishop Oyedepo

For more clarity, the Word says God is no respecter! All are EQUAL though some may give more of themselves. However, why praise such (if you even know such) since they have a reward from their master?

Where you get your "postulations from", please let us know as Aletheia has asked above. What I find funny is that you guys think we hate you and servants (not servants: "gods"wink AKA MOGs, of God, not realising it is what these people are pushing and convincing you of that is scary.

Joagbaje, You know "Touch not my anointed" was directed at heathen Kings when Israel marched to the promised land. You also know prophets had to face the tests of the scripture and messengership in the OT from ISRAEL. But today when all are equal, you say some are CHRIST (teacher) and must not be criticised.

You negate God when you make yourself comnparable to Him
You drag Him down to "needing" faith and say once you have the same faith, you are as Him
You raise men to His status when you call them "teacher", "father" etc

but when we say it is wrong to stand openly against God's Word thus, dim "degbu" (in search of "prophetic" rewards and points under a testament of equality) appears to call us evil. You guys need to place God in His Place and return men back to earth!
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Joagbaje(m): 8:57am On Jun 04, 2010
Altheia.

The annointed in a short form makes reference to

1. Chosen one, elect
2. empowerd or endowed.

So you must get these straight so as not to missuse it. You should know the difference between when we are referring to someone as annointed by the virtue of office  God has chosen him into or reffering to a man as annointed by the virtue of "charisma" Grace or ability, empowerment of God. We are all annointed by the holyghost if you have recieved him , but we are not all called into an office. It is a big error to find Christians slight men of God who are called into offices. To even speak evil of another Christian is bad enough.Not to talk about men That  God has chosen over his people. Ministry is not democracy.    I will elaborate on this later.

I laugh when I see people just post all manner of nonsense about pastors and bishops. It is a big display of ignorance. If you know the holyspirit. You will be cautious of making slanderous remarks about men he has chose to offices.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Joagbaje(m): 9:51am On Jun 04, 2010
aletheia:

Scripture verses that support the above needed please.Scripture verses that support the above needed please.Why does this have a familiar ring? Hmmm. . .I know: Animal Farm

Yes we are all annointed in christ but some are annointed over others They should be highly respected. Maybe you should try explain these scriptures to start with.

1 Tim. 1:20
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.


What gave Paul a christian the audacity to deliver another christian to satan when according to you they are both annointed equally?
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 11:01am On Jun 04, 2010
^^^ unworthy of you as a Christian to look for "stilted way" to win arguments.

Situations differ and God is dynamic. Paul stating that he delivered Alexander to satan does not mean God gave Alexander over. Yes, it suggests it but can you prove it? But lets agree God did!

Paul rebuked Peter too! smiley And that was Simon Peter (Cephas - the Rock). Would you then say he was anointed over Peter too? Please answer this as it is the heart of my assertion that God is dynamic.

We know on NL that you answer the title "Pastor", Joagbaje! Please then, put yourself in the position of Paul and put pastor Chris in the position of Simon Peter. Maybe before you ever heard the Gospel, he was a believer in Christ. "Maybe"!! !! Can you imagine supporting God so much that if your Chris says something wrong or does something wrong, you will REBUKE HIM OPENLY like Paul did Peter? If there is a nagging voice in you saying "NO", brother, you have a problem because what you are saying is that you place him before God. And thats my assertion here!

The above then, would infer that me, you, Enigma, KunleOshob or any other Christian "born again" 5 minutes ago has a right to "correct" OR "rebuke" any so called MOG just as Paul rebuked Simon Peter. Remember that it is today we "glorify" (please don't make an issue of this) PAUL. In the time of the Apostles, he was just a believer albeit very recognisable. It is his writings that have made him prominent today amongst us. He was accounted at least "equal" with Peter by the Word of God since we do not see a separation of "seniority".

What then, separates you from me or pastor Chris? Maybe MY or YOUR writings will be remembered long after his are forgotten!
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by aletheia(m): 11:10am On Jun 04, 2010
Joagbaje:

Altheia.

The annointed in a short form makes reference to

1. Chosen one, elect
2. empowerd or endowed.

So you must get these straight so as not to missuse it. You should know the difference between when we are referring to someone as annointed by the virtue of office  God has chosen him into or reffering to a man as annointed by the virtue of "charisma" Grace or ability, empowerment of God. We are all annointed by the holyghost if you have recieved him , but we are not all called into an office. It is a big error to find Christians slight men of God who are called into offices. To even speak evil of another Christian is bad enough.Not to talk about men That  God has chosen over his people. Ministry is not democracy.    I will elaborate on this later.

I laugh when I see people just post all manner of nonsense about pastors and bishops. It is a big display of ignorance. If you know the holyspirit. You will be cautious of making slanderous remarks about men he has chose to offices.

The problem here is that a lot of people take the old testament forms and try to apply it to Christianity (putting old wine in new wine-skins) forgetting that these are but shadows and in Christ is there completeness. In the old testament, who were those anointed into office? Priests and Kings. Were all Israelites priests and kings? No. Therefore not everyone was anointed. However this was but a foreshadow of the reality in Christ. The anointing being an archetype pointed to the enduing of the Holy Spirit.
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (Revelation 1:6)
^^^Our identity in Christ. And this brings us back to 1 John 2:27:
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:27)
Moreover a study of 1 John 2:18-27 will show you how that word translated anointed is used. In verse 20, John writes: But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. and in verses 21-22;  I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Now the Greek word: Χριστός (Christos) means "anointed"! So in essence John is saying Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is Anointed. The one that the anointing of the OT priests and kings pointed to. Now when we say that Jesus is the Anointed One; we are expressly confessing that He is the Only begotten of the Father whom has the Spirit without measure. But unfortunately you would have Jesus merely just anointed like Oyakhilome or yourself, and so you hark back to this warning in Matt 24:
Matthew 24:4-5]And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ (Anointed); and shall deceive many.[/quote]
John then goes on to point out that: But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie--just as it has taught you, abide in him. (1 John 2:27)
What is this anointing he speaks of: Already spoken of in verse 18; But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
And by Jesus Himself here: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.(John 16:13)
So the anointing is---the Holy Spirit Himself!
Are you therefore saying that some Christians have a greater portion of the Holy Spirit than others? Does this find support in scripture? Perhaps you mistake the different manifestations of the Spirit for something else?

Again I ask you: what verses support this your statement:
[quote author=Joagbaje:


But some  are annointed over others.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 11:14am On Jun 04, 2010
^^^ The result of careful sincere study.

Joagbaje, please consider the information above and DO NOT BE like the guy who said "don't confuse me with FACTS cos I already made up my mind"
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by aletheia(m): 11:44am On Jun 04, 2010
Part of the reasons why you commit these blunders is a poor bible study method

Joagbaje:

Yes we are all annointed in christ but some are annointed over others They should be highly respected.  Maybe you should try explain these scriptures to start with.

1 Tim. 1:20
   Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.


What gave Paul a christian the audacity to deliver another christian to satan when according to you they are both annointed equally?
Hymenaeus and Alexander were not Christians. First you should have read the preceding verses to situate the context of verse 20. Secondly, you should have delved further into scriptures to find out who these two were.
1.
1 Ti 1:19  εχων  πιστιν και αγαθην συνειδησιν ην τινες απωσαμενοι περι την πιστιν εναυαγησαν   
1 Ti 1:20  ων εστιν υμεναιος και αλεξανδρος ους παρεδωκα τω σατανα ινα παιδευθωσιν μη βλασφημειν 
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. (1 Timothy 1:19-20)
The key word in the verse above is απωσαμενοι translated as having put away.
apōtheomai  apōthomai
From G575 and the middle voice of ὠθέω ōtheō or ὤθω ōthō (to shove); to push off, figuratively to reject: - cast away, put away (from), thrust way (from).
Thus you see that Paul is saying Hymenaeus and Alexander had rejected the faith. People who have rejected the Christian faith can not be said to be Christians. Or are you implying, for example, that Mohammedans who have rejected the Christian faith are also Christians?

2. Who were Hymenaeus and Alexander? These were men who either actively opposed Paul in the course of his preaching the gospel or whose teachings subverted the truth of the gospel!
2 Tim 4:14:
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
Acts 19:33:
And they drew Alexander out of the multitude, the Jews putting him forward. And Alexander beckoned with the hand, and would have made his defence unto the people.
2 Tim 2:16-18:
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

See this:
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia:
The inference intended is, that though Hymeneus and Philetus had named the name of Christ, they did not depart from iniquity. There is no doubt in regard to the identity of this Hymeneus with the person of the same name in 1 Tim. Accordingly, the facts mentioned in the two epistles must be placed together, namely, that though he had made a Christian profession by naming the name of Christ, yet he had not departed from iniquity, but by his profane teaching he proceeded unto more ungodliness, and that he had put away faith and a good conscience and had made shipwreck of faith.
The error, therefore, of Hymeneus and his two companions would amount to this: They taught that “the resurrection is past already,” that there shall be no bodily resurrection at all, but that all that resurrection means is that the soul awakes from sin. This awakening from sin had already taken place with themselves, so they held, and therefore there could be no day in the future when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and shall come forth from the grave (Joh_5:28).
3. Incipient Gnosticism
This teaching of Hymeneus had been so far successful: it had “overthrown the faith of some” (2Ti_2:18). It is impossible to define exactly the full nature of this heresy, but what Paul says regarding it makes evident that it was a form of incipient Gnosticism. This spiritualizing of the resurrection sprang from the idea of the necessarily evil nature of all material substance. This idea immediately led to the conclusion of the essentially evil nature of the human body, and that if man is to rise to his true nature, he must rid himself of the thralldom, not of sin, but of the body. This contempt for the body led to the denial of the resurrection in its literal sense; and all that Christ had taught on the subject was explained only, in an allegorical sense, of the resurrection of the soul from sin.

Conclusion: You have not stated a scripture that supports your assertion as to differential anointing in the body of Christ.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 12:10pm On Jun 04, 2010
^^^ I'm guilty as well as I never thought that!

I clicked reply (not knowing Aletheia had replied) cos I was wondering why Joagbaje hadn't replied. In my Spirit, twas like "the guy is thinking, what can I say to counter this incontrovertible evidence".

Wanted to say "Bro, none of us is above being mistaken. What we must be above is the pride that refuses to acknowledge fault"
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by aletheia(m): 12:31pm On Jun 04, 2010
aletheia:

Now the Greek word: Χριστός (Christos) means "anointed"! So in essence John is saying Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is Anointed. The one that the anointing of the OT priests and kings pointed to. Now when we say that Jesus is the Anointed One; we are expressly confessing that He is the Only begotten of the Father whom has the Spirit without measure.
^^^Some points need to be further emphasized.
Jesus was anointed by God:
Acts 10:38:
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
This was fulfillment of Messianic prophecy:
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; (Isaiah 61:1)
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. (Luke 4:17-21)
The of anointing Jesus is the Holy Spirit:
John 3:34  For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
John 3:34  For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. (ESV)
John 1:32-33  And John bore witness: "I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him.  (33)  I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'

To therefore make claims like: "Anointed Man of God" is sacrilegious and amounts to claiming to be Christ. Granted we receive an anointing from Christ (the Holy Spirit) but it does not qualify us to go around making claims of being "Anointed" for this amounts to the same as claiming "I am Christ." Indeed no where in the NT will you find the disciples making such claims except in regard to what God has done for us in Christ viz:
Our anointing flows from His (i.e. Christ's) Anointing, which is tied to his Priestly and Kingly roles.
Jesus Christ is the One who anoints his own:
John 15:26  But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 20:22  And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
A point that John reiterates:
1 John 2:27  But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie--just as it has taught you, abide in him.
Received from who? I guess the answer is pretty obvious by now.

Matthew 24 makes quite clear that in the end days; false teachers will go around claiming to be "anointed ones":
Matthew 24:4-5  And Jesus answered them, "See that no one leads you astray.  (5)  For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ [Anointed],' and they will lead many astray.

Matthew 24:23-25  Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ [the Anointed]!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it.  (24)  For false christs [anointed ones] and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.  (25)  See, I have told you beforehand.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Enigma(m): 8:19am On Jun 05, 2010
I am late to the party but very good work by aletheia and Nuclearboy. One point made by aletheia is extremely significant i.e. someone claiming to be anointed as Christ and thus equal to Christ. This is the heresy that Word of Faith people like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar etc have been teaching; in fact, sometimes they even make their congregations shout and chant repeatedly "I am Christ". Our own resident Word of Faith chief defender, Pasiitor Joagbaje of the posts above, has himself claimed here on a couple of occasions that  he is Christ using the words expressly "I am Christ".

Another point I'd like to see developed further is to ask Joagbaje exactly what he understands as Paul's meaning when he said he had "delivered [them] unto Satan"? Also, I wonder how literal Joagbaje regards this "delivery unto Satan"?
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Joagbaje(m): 10:09am On Jun 05, 2010
@Altheia,
aletheia:

Part of the reasons why you commit these blunders is a poor bible study method
Dont be too quick to jubilate when you feel you scored a point.

Hymenaeus and Alexander were not Christians.

You are wrong. They were.And You are displayinng some incosistencies here.You claim they were not Christians and yet admitting they were. from your encyclopedia quote.

The inference intended is, that though Hymeneus and Philetus had named the name of Christ,

Well , lets lay that aside. Its not an issue now.But I would have you know that  a pastor is not just a title . It is an office backed with power. The power can build , protect and destroy. We all have equall salvation but some have been given charge  over others. There is difference between the general annointing of every christian and the special annointing for the office of a minister. A man that doesnt understand this will fall into divers errors.

Hymeanus was a Christian. And Paul would have nothing to do with him if he hadnt been a christian. There is difference between opposition from outside and oppositions from within. we can only discipline our own. But its God that fights for his church. Every discipline in Gods house is for corrective purpose and not purnishment of damnation. A pastor has the power over his congregation to deliver a man to satan. Whats the meaning of this? The pastoral cover and protection over that person is withdrawn. He is exposed to satanic attacks Which he was being shielded from by the covering grace of the pastor. The purpose is for the person to learn a lesson.

1 Tim. 1:20
   Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.


Just like the incestuos case in the corinthian church. spiritual discipline is only for members.

1 Cor. 5:5
   To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.



Conclusion: You have not stated a scripture that supports your assertion as to differential anointing in the body of Christ.

Well if you will be sincere , these scriptures above should have been enough except you want more. A pastor is not just a title. He is chosen by God over the poeple. He is backed with power by who sent him.

2 Cor. 13:10
   Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.


Because the power can destroy also. remember the case of Ananias and his wife. How Peter sentenced them to death. The power upon an anointed man is that much. Why didnt saphira tell Peter "Nothing, dey shele,  No shaking,  You be christian , i be christian too. we are all annointed!"  Just like the song some NL members sing here. We have no rights to attack , insult and speak words against men that God has anointed into offices.
And those who take pleasure blasheming against the works of the holy spirit in the lives and callings upon  men of God are attracting distruction upon their own lives. I know some do it in ignorance. We are praying for mercy upon you guys .

SUPPOSING A PASTOR DOES WRONG?  It is not your business. Touch him not! either with your mouth, your hand, or your post! No matter how knowledgeable you think you are , once you enter this error. I can easily rate you spiritually.

Romans 14:4
   Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.


Now you may say Paul rebuke Peter. Remember Paul was an Apostle. He rebuke Peter Because he has a Calling an besides Peter was in Pauls congregation. He didnt rebuke peter in jerusalem church . or in the Aggora market. So Threads and attacks against ministers is unscriptural. There is a spiritual law in exodus.

Exodus 22:28
   Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.


I know many want to be like Oshob thinking it will give them popularity. But they should take a lesson from Paul.

Acts 23:2-5
   And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth. [3] Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law? [4] And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest? [5] Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 10:39am On Jun 05, 2010
^^^

Aletheia tried to show you the difference between the calling of specific people in the OT as opposed to the priesthood and calling of ALL Christians under the new covenant. I see his words were of no avail to you and your first statement shows this is all about "points" and winning for you. Sad! cry Where in the NT do you see the words OR idea of a "ruler" of your people aside the Christ Himself. If not having such evidence, then surely you are making this up as you go along, hoping on using sentiment and procrastination (with selective issues addressed) as a weapon. You forget sentiment was not an issue when Bears mauled 42 children simply because they insulted Elisha. Why then expect it to be an issue when you insult Christ saying you are Him.

You say Pastors are not to be touched - any scriptural guidance on that? Please do not bring "Touch not my etc" since we both know this was directed at heathen kings who wished to stop Israel getting to its God given destination. Funnily enough, it was the WHOLE of ISRAEL NOT TO BE TOUCHED, not the "pastors" alone! So when I talk, do NOT question me too!!

Pls remember that God told Israel to TEST prophets AND "kill" false prophets. So tell me then, how would they have been known to be false or tested if you say its anathema to question them? Are you not then actually saying "pastors are above God's law of testing ALL spirits? Pride, guilt and fear of discovery makes a man say "do not question me". If you are right, why are you afraid? If not afraid, why not come out openly and say "Hey, I hear people say I'm stealing money and turning people away from God with my messages. Lets settle this now so you know I'm innocent. Here's the books : I throw them open". I do NOT believe your pastor chris to be the devil or as bad as he seems made out to be here oftentimes but there are things wrong and those things affect God's Sheep. And you are saying "as long as its pastor chris, its fine". That Bro, is reprehensible, hypocritical and undeserving. You're putting a man before God's Word and God Himself!

Immediately after posting this response, I'm starting a thread on "Heretic teachings" like this "I am Christ" issue and the effect they have on their adherents. I'd be delighted to see the input of the mature people we see coming on NL more and more to counter these ideas. I also wish that you, Joagbaje, bring your "strong reasons". One thing I must say though in advance - I start to see that many (even long term Christians) started on the wrong footing and are legalistic and in error only because their foundation was based on this heresy.

Lets please try to provide as much incontrovertible evidence as possible so they find "nothing" to use as an excuse to stay in error. Aletheia's post above is a prime example of such incontrovertible evidence that forces a verdict against much rubbish/error.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Joagbaje(m): 10:57am On Jun 05, 2010
@ Nuclearboy
If you want more proof to know the error of your teaching , I will spare some more time to get into it. Just give me a moment.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 11:10am On Jun 05, 2010
I love to learn, Sir, and that is what brought me to the point where I am today.

My only condition is that we remember who we are and not "lie" or misquote deliberately. If one would rather stay in error, it is his right but to carry others along is not acceptable. I have posed some issues which you avoided/ignored. Start off your "tutorial" by answering them

[1] "Touch not My anointed and do My prophets no harm" was directed at heathens, not the children of Israel (Christians)! YES or NO
[2] Israel was meant to test its Prophets to be certain they were of God and more importantly, were telling truth! YES or NO
[3] The NT requests us to TEST ALL SPIRITS. These would include the Spirits in Pastors as well as regular Christians! YES or NO
[4] Jesus Himself said many who come in His name are fake and to be watchful! YES or NO
[5] Jesus said ANYONE who calls himself the Christ is FAKE! YES or NO
[6] God's Word supercedes the word/thought/dreams/revelations/understanding of ANY man and infact, is what we must use to determine if they are of right spirit! YES or NO

I await your responses, Pastor, keeping in mind the fact that you're a Christian, Servant of God and therefore unwilling to wilfully sin (lie) smiley
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Enigma(m): 12:03pm On Jun 05, 2010
Joagbaje:
. . .
Well if you will be sincere , these scriptures above should have been enough except you want more. A pastor is not just a title. He is chosen by God over the poeple. He is backed with power by who sent him.

2 Cor. 13:10
   Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.


Because the power can destroy also. remember the case of Ananias and his wife. How Peter sentenced them to death. The power upon an anointed man is that much. Why didnt saphira tell Peter "Nothing, dey shele,  No shaking,  You be christian , i be christian too. we are all annointed!"  Just like the song some NL members sing here. We have no rights to attack , insult and speak words against men that God has anointed into offices.
And those who take pleasure blasheming against the works of the holy spirit in the lives and callings upon  men of God are attracting distruction upon their own lives. I know some do it in ignorance. We are praying for mercy upon you guys .

SUPPOSING A PASTOR DOES WRONG?  It is not your business. Touch him not! either with your mouth, your hand, or your post! No matter how knowledgeable you think you are , once you enter this error. I can easily rate you spiritually.

Romans 14:4
   Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.


Now you may say Paul rebuke Peter. Remember Paul was an Apostle. He rebuke Peter Because he has a Calling an besides Peter was in Pauls congregation. He didnt rebuke peter in jerusalem church . or in the Aggora market. So Threads and attacks against ministers is unscriptural. There is a spiritual law in exodus.

Exodus 22:28
   Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.


I know many want to be like Oshob thinking it will give them popularity. But they should take a lesson from Paul.

Acts 23:2-5
   And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth. [3] Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law? [4] And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest? [5] Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.


This is sheer nonsense. I'm still trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you believe these nonsensical lies otherwise I will see you as using subtle tactics and misusing Scriptures for the purpose of spiritual abuse; i.e. to intimidate your flock, so that they won't question anything you say, including lies, and you can easily fleece them!

Where in the Bible does it say or suggest that a "pastor" has special powers? Where does it say "Touch him not" if a pastor does wrong? And who tells you that every "pastor" is chosen by God?
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 12:05pm On Jun 05, 2010
Matthew 7:13-23 “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14 “For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it. 15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 “Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits. 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’”

False prophets are particularly dangerous because they appear to be genuine. If not, no one would follow them

Their outward forms would incline one to believe these false prophets to be reliable guides. But these false prophets can be detected by their fruits. What are these fruits? One must be very careful here, for false prophets are not without religious activities. A false prophet is often accompanied by deceptive signs and by seeming wonders. Some of these are suggested in Matthew 7:22: “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in Your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?”’

We should expect false prophets to engage in acts of kindness and charity. We should expect them to perform deeds which suggest miraculous power. And we should expect that these deeds be performed under the pretext of being done by God’s power and to His glory.

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds” (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).

We should expect false prophets to be accompanied by religious works, often unusual and spectacular, done ostensibly in the name of God. Satan willingly gives the glory to God in such cases, so long as ultimately he is able to deceive people and cause them to their allegiance and obedience him.

But are these religious activities the fruits of which the Master spoke? If not, what are they? The Scriptures frequently describe the fruits of the false prophets, so that we are left with little doubt as to what we should look for. I believe we can see the fruits of the false prophets falling into three categories.

(1) The first category of the fruits of the false prophet is their doctrine. False prophets speak from their own delusion, not by divine command (Jeremiah 23:16,21,25; Ezekiel 13:2). They do not proclaim or defend God’s word, but deny it (Jeremiah 23:17). In particular they deny unpleasant subjects such as impending judgment (Jeremiah 6:14; 28:17; Ezekiel 13:10). They offer temporary and partial relief to pressing problems (Jeremiah 8:11). Mainly, they tell people precisely what they want to hear (1 Kings 22:8, 13; 2 Timothy 4:3-4). Concerning the way of salvation they deny the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ and they reject the work of Christ on the cross (2 Peter 2:1; 1 John 4:2-3).

(2) The second category of the fruits of the false prophets is the effect of their teaching in the lives of men. Invariably it leads to a rejection of God’s word, a rejection of biblical authority, a division among the saints (Jeremiah 23:2,14) and a life of sensuality (2 Peter 2:2). They attempt to lead men away from the truth of the gospel (Acts 13:cool, and to deceive genuine Christians with false doctrine (Mark 13:22). This is also evident from the pastoral epistles (1 and 2Timothy and Titus) where Paul speaks of the need of sound or healthy doctrine (1 Tim. 4:6; 2 Tim. 4:3; bosom. 1:9; 2:1).

(3) Finally, there is the fruit of the false teachers as evidenced in their own moral character. They are easily distinguished by their pride (2 Peter 2:10), their greed (Jeremiah 8:10; Titus 1:11; 2 Peter 2:3,14) and immorality (Jeremiah 23:11,14; 2 Peter 2:14). They are men dominated by the flesh (2 Peter 2:10,12; 3:3). They prey upon the weak and the guilt-ridden (2 Timothy 3:6-7; 2 Peter 2:14,13). While they profess to know God, by their deeds they deny Him (Matthew 7:22-23; 2 Timothy 3:5; Titus 1:16). While they delight in authority, they refuse to submit to it (2 Peter 2:10).

“A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit?” (Luke 6:39).
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by aletheia(m): 12:18pm On Jun 05, 2010
^^^Wonderful write up.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Joagbaje(m): 1:49pm On Jun 05, 2010
nuclearboy:

^^^
Aletheia tried to show you the difference between the calling of specific people in the OT as opposed to the priesthood and calling of ALL Christians under the new covenant. I see his words were of no avail to you and your first statement shows this is all about "points" and winning for you. Sad!

Let Altheia speak for himself, My response was based on his wrong approach. Present your points and let me respond if I have any , instead of telling me I commit blunders because i have a poor bible study method. Such statements are uncalled for.


cry Where in the NT do you see the words OR idea of a "ruler" of your people aside the Christ Himself. If not having such evidence, then surely you are making this up
annointed men are rulers , such as pastors.

1 Tim. 5:17
   Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.



Hebrews 13:17
   Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Hebrews 13:7
   Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.


as you go along, hoping on using sentiment and procrastination (with selective issues addressed) as a weapon.

if there is a post you feel i needed to respond to pls let me know. I did not try  to be selective or avoid a post.

You forget sentiment was not an issue when Bears mauled 42 children simply because they insulted Elisha. Why then expect it to be an issue when you insult Christ saying you are Him.

Lets not go into other issues for now. But remeber you dont know everything . Ask me questions about my claims first beefore you conclude and judge. And by the way you are contradicting yourself. If you claim the whole of israel were annointed. All christians are anointed. Why should mine claim of being a christ[anointed } be herectical?. There is a difference between "The Christ" and a Christ. This is a simple grammar. a  chosen one is not "The chosen one "

Mattew 24:23 (NIV)
At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is The christ or, There he is; do  not believe it.


"The Christ" Definate atticle. in grammar. It refers to a particular person that Israel is waiting for, And besides this is not wrtitten for the church. This makes reference to Jews after the rapture of the church. Jews that are waiting for the messiah. during the great tribulation. Isee many  posts using this scripture wrongly.I just didnt bother to respond. except in one of Oshobs posts., because its his favorite.

You say Pastors are not to be touched - any scriptural guidance on that? Please do not bring "Touch not my etc" since we both know this was directed at heathen kings who wished to stop Israel getting to its God given destination. Funnily enough, it was the WHOLE of ISRAEL NOT TO BE TOUCHED, not the "pastors" alone! So when I talk, do NOT question me too!!

It was not a stetment for hithen kings but for the whole of creation not  to touch  anyone God has anointed.
Let me give you a BIGGIE if you will honestly consider it. David was anointed three times as King. The first anointing was when God sent Samuel to daid family to chose one of his sons as king. Because God had rejected Saul. Saul began to suspect David would be King and decided to kill David. Saul fell into davids hands several times. David would have killed him. Now two of them were anointed ,but only one sits in the king office. David didnt say "we are both anointed". because he had not been anointed into the office. He recieved the anointing as the "chosen one" but he still had to respect the man who is anointed over him into the office. If you really want to understand the anointing or understand my point. Study the story of Saul and David ,then lets talk.

But  see what happened at one occation when the servants of David asked him to kill Saul. He refused because of the fact that Saul  was anointed. Was David a heathen king? No!.

1 Samuel 24:4-6
   And the men of David said unto him, Behold the day of which the Lord said unto thee, Behold, I will deliver thine enemy into thine hand, that thou mayest do to him as it shall seem good unto thee. Then David arose, and cut off the skirt of Saul's robe privily. [5] And it came to pass afterward, that David's heart smote him, because he had cut off Saul's skirt. [6] And he said unto his men, The Lord forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the Lord's anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the Lord.


Now ask yourself Was David quoting a law for heathen kings saying"touch not mine anointed"? No . He was speaking from a spiritual understanding. A spiritual law for all.

Another time when saul in his bid to kill David ,he fell into davids hand again, Abishai ,David servant wanted to kill Saul.,But David would not allow hin because he understants the anointing,  

1 Samuel 26:8-9
   Then said Abishai to David, God hath delivered thine enemy into thine hand this day: now therefore let me smite him, I pray thee, with the spear even to the earth at once, and I will not smite him the second time. [9] And David said to Abishai, Destroy him not: for who can stretch forth his hand against the Lord's anointed, and be guiltless?


Pls remember that God told Israel to TEST prophets AND "kill" false prophets. So tell me then, how would they have been known to be false or tested if you say its anathema to question them? Are you not then actually saying "pastors are above God's law of testing ALL spirits? Pride, guilt and fear of discovery makes a man say "do not question me". If you are right, why are you afraid? If not afraid, why not come out openly and say "Hey, I hear people say I'm stealing money and turning people away from God with my messages. Lets settle this now so you know I'm innocent. Here's the books : I throw them open". I do NOT believe your pastor chris to be the devil or as bad as he seems made out to be here oftentimes but there are things wrong and those things affect God's Sheep. And you are saying "as long as its pastor chris, its fine". That Bro, is reprehensible, hypocritical and undeserving. You're putting a man before God's Word and God Himself!

We can test every spirits and ask questions for clarifications. But for us to come into  conclusion about the motives  and actions of others through our own assumption coupled with name calling and abuses of these people , is unscriptural. Paul didnt abuse james or peter , But they may have had doctrinal differences.

Immediately after posting this response, I'm starting a thread on "Heretic teachings" like this "I am Christ" issue and the effect they have on their adherents. I'd be delighted to see the input of the mature people we see coming on NL more and more to counter these ideas. I also wish that you, Joagbaje, bring your "strong reasons". One thing I must say though in advance - I start to see that many (even long term Christians) started on the wrong footing and are legalistic and in error only because their foundation was based on this heresy.

It is not a bad idea to start such thread as long as you make sure you dwell in truth .
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Joagbaje(m): 2:08pm On Jun 05, 2010
Enigma:

This is sheer nonsense. I'm still trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you believe these nonsensical lies otherwise I will see you as using subtle tactics and misusing Scriptures for the purpose of spiritual abuse; i.e. to intimidate your flock, so that they won't question anything you say, including lies, and you can easily fleece them!

Where in the Bible does it say or suggest that a "pastor" has special powers? Where does it say "Touch him not" if a pastor does wrong? And who tells you that every "pastor" is chosen by God?


Stop making me feel I wasted my time doing a post. You cant just rubish a post. If you dont have anything to say , you should keep quite. Who is talking about intimiating a flock, Which congregation have you seen me teach this.? If you want us to discuss , lets discuss, stop bringing issues that dont make sense. Did I write the bible. If Im wrong , judge me post by the word. stop getting into personality fight.

Did I say every pastor is perfect. There are biblical ways of dealing with false doctrines. But bringing the church of christ to disrepute in a publicforum is unscriptural for a christian , if you are one.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Joagbaje(m): 2:37pm On Jun 05, 2010
aletheia:

To therefore make claims like: "Anointed Man of God" is sacrilegious and amounts to claiming to be Christ. Granted we receive an anointing from Christ (the Holy Spirit) but it does not qualify us to go around making claims of being "Anointed" for this amounts to the same as claiming "I am Christ." Indeed no where in the NT will you find the disciples making such claims except in regard to what God has done for us in Christ viz:
Our anointing flows from His (i.e. Christ's) Anointing, which is tied to his Priestly and Kingly roles.
Jesus Christ is the One who anoints his own: A point that John reiterates:Received from who? I guess the answer is pretty obvious by now.

So what are you saying now? Are we anointed or not? .

2 Cor. 1:21
Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;


Matthew 24 makes quite clear that in the end days; false teachers will go around claiming to be "anointed ones":
Matthew 24:4-5 And Jesus answered them, "See that no one leads you astray. (5) For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ [Anointed],' and they will lead many astray.

Matthew 24:23-25 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ [the Anointed]!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. (24) For false christs [anointed ones] and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. (25) See, I have told you beforehand.

If you study the passage carefully Mattew 24 is talking about the tribulations time after the rapture. The church would not be here on earth t Jesus was answering a jewish question. He was talking to the jews and not the church. So lets stop using this mattew 24 story wrongly . besides He didnt say its wrong for a man to be anoinyted. There is only one person The jews are waiting for as " the chosen" (anointed) that is their messiah. Jesus was contrasting himself with the false messiahs to the Jewish nation. Especially the anti christ. whom they will finally embrace as the "chosen one" So this is not about us but tribulation time. Look at verse 21 of that chapter

Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


You may have to read the chapter again in this light , I believe you will reconsider your stand.
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by nuclearboy(m): 3:21pm On Jun 05, 2010
@Joagbaje:

Firstly, it was not me that said you have a poor Bible study method. Aletheia did and he was being kind. For me personally, sorry to say this but I believe you wear "tinted" glasses when you "go through" the Bible. They are tinted by pastor chris' ideas and ROR. I know you will see that as an insult but it is sincere and not intended to ridicule you - its honestly what you portray.

To your quotes:

The elders that rule well, laboring in the word and doctrine ARE those who get a reward from God, not a "here and now" cash reward from poorer people. Those people discussed by your second quote WATCH OVER SOULS, not send them into delirious excitement based on psychology. When account is been given, I guess many will be shocked that the miracle workers Jesus said He would say He doesn't know are pastors amongst us, not Imams in Sudan.

Your third "rulers/rulership" quote - Hmmm, you might be better served, Joagbaje, leaving the legalistic approach and starting to understand that a ruler in the stated context presents an example which is worthy to be emulated and is not a "king" over subjects. I asked in another thread what example you wished me to follow - the Biblical one that says women should clothe themselves in modesty or Chris' which asks me, a dude that I am, to fry my hair (and heat up the brain underneath). Thats the ruler the Bible talks of - the true leader and THAT IS WHY the verse says "WHOSE FAITH FOLLOW".

Rather than this bitterness with which you claim we're attacking you, why didn't you answer all the points raised above? You are BEING SELECTIVE!

And of course, I do not know everything. Matter of fact, it is you and your guys that have the distinction of claiming that! I know the difference between "the boy" and "a boy" but when we read about the MOGs in the other thread "Nsaying "I AM THAT I AM", we know this is an excuse when the chips are down. Someone who says he uses the God kind of faith is calling himself "The one" not "a one".

Sincerely Joagbaje, I believe you're sincere but your "glasses" are not letting you see truth. 1 Chr 16:19 - 22 "When they were but few in number, few indeed and strangers in it, the wandered from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another. He allowed no man to oppress them; for their sakes, He rebuked kings: do not touch my anointed ones; do my prophets no harm"

That is what the Bible says - ALL Israel was anointed and NOT to be touched. Not their rulers alone. Remember God gave guidelines for them to know the fake prophets and ordered the should be killed. How do you do that without touching them, Joagbaje?

I think you guys watched "The Ten Commandments" and have this fantasy of being like Moses so that the ground would swallow anyone who dared "try" you or to be Elijah and call fire down from Heaven etc. But we're under a new dispensation Sir and that ain't gonna happen.

On King David, the guy chose NOT to kill Saul - God didn't inform him not to do so. Again, this is OT issues and buttresses my point that its that "I'm oga thing" that you guys want cos now when it serves you, you go to the issue of David whom you have claimed is learning from you to find support. Did you forget Jesus said "the ruler shall be the servant". That statement changes everything because THE SERVANT IS RESPONSIBLE TO THE SERVED! Abi I lie? Does your houseboy command you about? Do you wash your driver's car? Honor should then be voluntary not compelled!

On dwelling in truth, I'm very very far from perfect, Joagbaje. Atimes my conscience indicts me when later I fall into the same thing I condemned in posts here on NL. The difference between me and you is that I know that and acknowledge my limitations BUT you refute it and claim godship.

Your reply to Enigma about bringing "disrepute" on an open forum is very funny coming from you. First its your members stealing money from hotels, banks and even your own bank for our church. Then its claims of "staged" and fake miracles in your church. Then its the doctrine of "jericurls" and immodesty. Then we're told your "chairman" is a FreeMason and so many Christians have expressed their mind that they wouldn't be suprised to find it true! Thats aside of the delusions of "professional" fornicators who are members of CE speaking arrant rubbish and calling it "tongues". At the same time, we have their non-professional counterparts being considered to be the loosest girls in every town your church is. I could go on, bro.

But thats fine by you and you feel it is the guys who say the above is wrong that are bringing disrepute to Christianity? shocked You're a funny guy!
Re: Touch Not My Anointed & Do My Prophet No Harm by Joagbaje(m): 5:48pm On Jun 05, 2010
There is no point talking with you. I will be wasting my time. You cant say you were untold.

Enjoy !!!!

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